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«Oldest ‹Older 801 – 906 of 906Dear Ravi,
Thanks for more accurate translation. Appar says that he has done many horrific misdeeds in the past, i.e when he was in Jainism, he must have spoken ill of Siva and Saivam. Kootru is for Yama. Kootru is the one who does "kooru" - to separate. [like AaRu and AtRu, the river and the one who directs to the river.] Yama separates the mind/jiva and body.
Thanks once again.
Friends,
What ThAyumanavar has said about his not being fit for worship!Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Formal worship drops away after the vision of God. It was thus that my worship in the
temple came to an end. I used to worship the Deity in the Kali temple. It was suddenly
revealed to me that everything is Pure Spirit. The utensils of worship, the altar, the doorframe-
all Pure Spirit. Men, animals, and other living beings-all Pure Spirit. Then like a
madman I began to shower flowers in all directions. Whatever I saw I worshipped.
"One day, while worshipping Siva, I was about to offer a bel-leaf on the head of the image,
when it was revealed to me that this Virat, this Universe, itself is Siva. After that my
worship of Siva through the image came to an end. Another day I had been plucking
flowers, when it was revealed to me that the flowering plants were so many bouquets."
TRAILOKYA: "Ah! How beautiful is God's creation!"
MASTER: "Oh no, it is not that. It was revealed to me in a flash. I didn't calculate about it.
It was shown to me that each plant was a bouquet adorning the Universal Form of God.
That was the end of my plucking flowers. I look on man in just the same way. When I see a
man, I see that it is God Himself who walks on earth, as it were, rocking to and fro, like a
pillow floating on the waves. The pillow moves with the waves. It bobs up and down."
-----------------------------------
Sri Ramakrishna has this charming way of expressing deep Truths!
Namaskar.
Ravi/Hey Jude,
let me reword my comment and put it in the perspective that i actually meant.
i write as a commoner who is interested in spirituality, history and economics and not as any expert. these are just my views and opinions.
what we call life is just a blip in TIME. and in our life when we talk of history, it is but a few hundred years into the past. while this BHAARATHA BHOOMI has always been the land of jnana and bhakti, well until early 1900s India was a land of material splendour as well which is why the brits were busy stripping her bare(since the 1600s) and prior to that the mughals, pillaging and looting.
the west went through the industrial revolution and rapid economic development (fed by the colonised world) which increased material prosperity and greed. they sold this concept of development as something to aspire for which was and is being eagerly lapped up by "third world" india.
the west is most definitely waking up to the fact that no amount of wealth and material pleasures can compensate for emotional well being resulting in some turning to religion and looking east. more are sure to follow and india again caters to this market.
india on the other hand is shamelessly aping the west's failing materialist lifestyle and forgetting its inherent spiritual strength. hence the need to wake up from this stupor.
this is why i had written earlier that life is a cycle and we are going round in circles.
yes, "we need to play the alloted roles" and "there's no need to wax lyrical as unless one is enlightened, we are all touched by this crass globalisation".
i had also written that all this is meaningless as we are mere passersby while my beloved Bhagavan Arunachala stands silent witness. HE has already decided what will happen while we play our parts like fools :-)
... we are all touched by this crass globalisation. ...
Don't we forget:
TALK 621
Visitor: If one realised the Self and acted up to it in the West, one would be locked up in a lunatic asylum. (Laughter.)
Maharshi.: You will be locking yourself in. Because the world is mad, considers you mad. Where is the lunatic asylum if it is not within. You will not be in it, but it will be in you. (Laughter).
Anonymous/Friends,
"india on the other hand is shamelessly aping the west's failing materialist lifestyle and forgetting its inherent spiritual strength"
I agree with what you have mentioned about how Bharata varsha of the past.In the present as well,I find that among the younsters,there is a greater pride and thirst for Spiritual verities compared to the Previous generations.
Just today as I entered the sanctum of Marundeeswarar temple,the beautiful chanting of glorious Tevaram in Chaste Tamil with wonderful diction and intonation greeted me.A lad in his teens,wearing a Jeans pant and a T- shirt was standing opposite the sanctum sanctorum of the Shiva linga was totally oblivious of everything around him and with his hands raised above his head was in full flow.
I think the lord also knows about the complaints made by some readers in this Blog about how temple priests have gone commercial,etc.Today,the priests were not there for full ten minutes while all this was going on!It was only Lord Siva and this devotee in solitary grandeur.
As I circumambulated and reached the Shrine of Divine Mother Tripurasundari(True to her name!)there was another devotee chanting lalitha Sahasara nAmam(Sanskrit) in a clear bell like flourish.
As one takes a pradakshina around the temple,one encounters the sacred (Goshala) cow shed where it is a beautiful sight to watch people feeding the cows with bananas,green leaves et all.
One will get to see sivan adiyars as they are described in days of yore,with their faces aglow with contentment and joy.
I have time and again in various forums encountered people deeply interested in Spiritual Living.
Let me categorically state one simple Truth-we attract those things around us that we secretly cherish.We see this in the world around us.I leave it at this.
Namaskar.
Ravi, This is a quote from Rp 'The West came to India enamoured by material riches. Then India started and is going after the West's idea of modern life. But the West has realised its follies and is looking to India for spiritual solace'
Actually I understood it the first time around. You also need to read the material posted more carefully.
Hello anonymous, 'india on the other hand is shamelessly aping the west's failing materialist lifestyle and forgetting its inherent spiritual strength. hence the need to wake up from this stupor.
this is why i had written earlier that life is a cycle and we are going round in circles'
Spot on, yes I agree with the above statement.
Hey jude,
"You also need to read the material posted more carefully."
Agreed.
Namaskar.
R.Subramanaian,
Today as I visisted Marundeeswarar temple,delighted to see kAraikAl ammaiyar,the only one who is seated among the row of 63Nayanmars.Thanks very much for this interesting information.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
ravi/subramanian: thanks for the translation. also, there was an 'Anonymous' who was apparently unhappy with these translations appearing here! :-) it's understandable that those who do not know tamizh may not be in a position to appreciate these verses. if that's what most of you feel/think, then we will refrain from putting up a few verses & their translations!
folks: time & again, we find people talking & differentiating between a great bhArata of the bygone past and a not-so-great india of the decadent present. this may not be as 'true' as it sounds - indians, historically, have been poor chroniclers of history (though one does get decent glimpses in works as kautilyA's arthashAstra or kalhaNA's rAjatarangini etc.). much of the modern trend of writing & interpreting of history came after the advent of the europeans into the sub-continent. whatever they wrote, some did it sincerely too, were also written based on whatever understanding & information was prevalent then.
more importantly, while it's certainly true that we have a fabulous amount of literary treasures that has come down to us (despite what's been lost!), yet it's also equally legitimate to say that it's not as if there was some utopian era of great tranquility that gave birth to our great traditions. almost all the great works, philosophical & literary, could have got written inspite of the several intense struggles & internecine conflicts that raged & ravaged the land for centuries. empires were frequently getting created, extended, conquered, decimated enough for any great stability to reign for any significant length of time. the invasions did drain out a lot of material wealth but it would neither be right to unduly emphasise some hoary period that was supposedly most conducive to india's prodigious output! much of what really happened is speculative because no one today has any comprehensive idea to chart-out all the significant aspects of india's past (very little, relatively, is known of the times prior to the dawn of the 2nd millenium!).
continued...
salutations to all:
continued...
let me give a simple but non-trivial example: take vEdanta - the reason for vEdanta's extraordinary richness, as we know it today, is not merely because of sankarA, for most of the post-sankarA philosophers who contributed to it becoming almost as a 'science' came after 1000 AD! again, such a contribution was constantly getting refined & enriched due to the healthy but an equally brilliant opposition afforded by the schools of rAmAnujA and madhvA, both of whom flourished after the 11th century. the contributions emerging out of the debates among the outstanding luminaries of the rival schools went on, despite everything else, up till the 19th century after which slowly the macaulay scheme took firm roots in the country. even then, it's noteworthy to observe that great spiritual giants kept on emerging in almost every century after the external invasions began with ghazni & ghori. in the 19th alone, there were such colossal figures as thAkur (rAmakrshNa), lAhiri mahAsaya, rAmalinga adigalAr, shirdi sAi bAbA etc. who reinforced the most essential aspects of the tradition in their own unique ways. the revolutionary 20th had bhagavAn...
perhaps right from the dawn of mankind, in every age, the majority are bound to pursue material pleasures of life and a tiny minority to seek to go beyond the ephemeral - such is the nature of jagat, the world. no age may be unduly special because every age has its own specialty & uniqueness, its own advantages & disadvantages; the cycle goes on...
Anonymous said:
"...i had also written that all this is meaningless as we are mere passersby while my beloved Bhagavan Arunachala stands silent witness. HE has already decided what will happen while we play our parts like fools :-)..."
- hahahahaha - if 'god' is the 'silent witness' watching all us 'fools' doing their part, which too (as you said) 'HE' decides, then does it not make this 'god' to be the greatest 'fool' of all??? one indeed has to have a grand level of 'foolishness' in order to ensure that 'everybody' else continue playing their part as 'fools', isn't it? :-)))
s/Friends,
" one indeed has to have a grand level of 'foolishness' in order to ensure that 'everybody' else continue playing their part as 'fools', isn't it? :-)))"
Understood atlast why God is Great(allAhO akbar!):-)(Learning!)
The following saying is attributed to Abraham Lincoln:
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time".
Looks like God alone can do this,hence he is the Greatest!:))).
----------------------------------
s,since you are a maths enthusiast,a corollary of the above is that GOD EXISTS!So s.,like a ripe sivan adiyAr,would like to see you smeared with ash,visiting temples and singing the newly learnt tEvAram Hymns:-)))
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Nice anecdote about Sri Rama Krishna. Sri Bhagavan used to say:
Do not pluck flowers from plants and leaves like bhilwa and tulsi from the trees/plants. Once someone wanted to do puja by using one hundred thousand bhilwa leaves. He chided her: Why do you tonsure these trees. Don't they have lives? If you want to do Siva Puja with so many thousand leaves, then pinch your thigh so many times and do puja. He has mentioned this principle in one of the verses of Devi Kalottaram.
I had a senior manager, whose wife wanted to present one hundred thousand turmeric fingers to various housewives as a penance. When I went to his house, there were sackful of turmeric fingers and the smell was there. After seeing me looking at these sacks, he said sheepishly: Hi..hi.. so and so gave it to me! It was a product of his corruption! Which
Devi be pleased with these corrupt turmeric fingers?
One thing in the entire Sri Ramakrishna's life is while he was saying like this, how come he could eat fish? Someone may please answer me. He has even told once that when someone walked on the lawns, he felt that his heart was pained to see the grasses
being stamped there by this man's
legs.
Dear Anon.,
Yes. What you say is correct. The Hindus called them as yugas [though it may refer to much longer period], this sort of cyclic predominance between materialism and spiritualism
is bound to come. Even in Europe, when Germans gave philosophy, French gave revolution and Italian gave renaissance, English gave only industrialization, which is the least important at that point of time. In 1917 after Bolshvik
Revolution and introduction of Communism, who thought it will crumble in 80 years?
Dear Clemens Vargas Ramos,
Yes. Wolter Keers said the same thing in his article: If one stays in Amsterdam or Ottawa or Paris and tell in the early morning to the baker, 'I am not born, I will not
die', then repeat this to the grocer
and then to the people in the street, it is sure, he may end up in prison caught by the policeman.
Such sublime ideas were unknown to the West until Sanskrit books of
Sri Sankara and Sri Bhagavan were exported to them. They were still thinking that the world was created in 6 days and god took rest on the Sabbath, the 7th day.
[I am told that nowadays the Church
does not speak much about Genesis,
the first chapter in Bible]. "If someone from India says that the world is created as you see it..",
if not to lock up, they will send
you by the return flight to India.
Someone like Clemens should give surety for that person's stable mind.
Dear Hey jude,
I agree with you. I have just now mentioned about cyclic effect, like birth and death and birth and death.
R.Subramanian,
"One thing in the entire Sri Ramakrishna's life is while he was saying like this, how come he could eat fish? Someone may please answer me."
It is better to hear it from the Master himself:
"The Master was gradually regaining consciousness of the outer world. Looking at the
devotees he said: "Years ago I used to be amazed to see people keeping kai fish alive in a
pot of water. I would say: 'How cruel these people are! They will finally kill the fish.' But
later, as changes came over my mind, I realized that bodies are like pillow-cases. It doesn't
matter whether they remain or drop off."
BHAVANATH: "Then may one injure a man without incurring sin? Kill him?"
MASTER: "Yes, it is permissible if one has achieved that state of mind. But not everyone
has it. It is the state of Brahmajnana.
"By coming down a step or two from samadhi I enjoy bhakti and bhakta.
Vidyamaya and avidyamaya
"There exist in God both vidya and avidya. Vidyamaya leads one to God, and avidyamaya
away from Him. Knowledge, devotion, compassion, and renunciation belong to the realm
of vidya. With the help of these a man comes near God. One step more and he attains God,
Knowledge of Brahman. In that state he clearly feels and sees that it is God who has
become everything. He has nothing to give up and nothing to accept. It is impossible for
him to be angry with anyone."
-----------------------------------
Again he says:
"In my present of my mind I can eat a little fish soup if it has been offered to the Divine
Mother beforehand. I can't eat any meat, even if it is offered to the Divine Mother; but I
taste it with the end of my finger lest She should be angry. (Laughter.)"
-----------------------------------
"True renunciation
Narendra said to the Master with a smile, referring to Bhavanath, "He has given up fish and
betel-leaf."
MASTER: "Why so? What is the matter with fish and betel-leaf? They aren't harmful. The
renunciation of 'woman and gold' is the true renunciation."
-----------------------------------
continued...
R.subramanian,
Sri Ramakrishna continued...
"When I renounced everything with an offering of flowers at the Lotus Feet of the Mother,
I said: 'Here, Mother, take Thy holiness, take Thy unholiness. Here, Mother, take Thy
dharma, take Thy adharma. Here, Mother, take Thy sin, take Thy virtue. Here, Mother, take
Thy good, take Thy evil. And give me only pure bhakti.' But I could not say, 'Here, Mother,
take Thy truth, take Thy falsehood.' "
A devotee had brought some ice. Again and again the Master asked M., "Shall I eat it?"
M: said humbly, "Please don't eat it without consulting the Mother:" Sri Ramakrishna could
not take the ice.
MASTER: "It is the bhakta, and not the jnani, who discriminates between holiness and
unholiness. Vijay's mother-in-law said to me: 'How little I have achieved of my spiritual
ideal! I cannot take food from everybody.' I said to her: 'Is eating everybody's food a sign of
jnana? A dog eats anything and everything. Does that make it a jnani?'
(To M.) "Why do I eat a variety of dishes? In order not to become monotonous. Otherwise I
should have to renounce the devotees.
"I said to Keshab: 'If I instruct you from a still higher standpoint, then you won't be able to
preserve your organization. In the state of jnana organizations and things like that become
unreal, like a dream.'
"One time I gave up fish. At first I suffered from it; afterwards it didn't bother me much. If
someone burns up a bird's nest, the bird flies about; it takes shelter in the sky. If a man truly
realizes that the body and the world are unreal, then his soul attains samadhi.
"Formerly I had the state of mind of a jnani: I couldn't enjoy the company of men. I would
hear that a jnani or a bhakta lived at a certain place; then, a few days later, I would learn
that he was dead. Everything seemed to me impermanent; so I couldn't enjoy people's
company. Later the Mother brought my mind down to a lower plane; She so changed my
mind that I could enjoy love of God and His devotees."
-----------------------------------
If we have studied the Life of Sri Ramakrishna,we know how his mind was always soaring in the ocean of Brahman-It was impossible for him to bring his 'mind' down,without injecting some amount of 'Desire'!!!He will ask for 'Water' and in this way bring his mind down to the external consciousness.If not for 'some desire'(in his case,there was no Prarabda as he was an incarnation like Sri Krishna)that the Divine Mother kept in him,such a one would have become inaccesible to the world.
-----------------------------------
I can write a tome on Sri Ramakrishna,and I know it is very 'dangerous'if someone gets me started on this!(I will go on endlessly talking about him!)We need to only remember that for over 6 months,he lived without any external consciousness and was not even in a position to swallow food!The person who put a morsel in his mouth often found it just there in his mouth the next day!For sucha one to 'enjoy' fish!Definitely there must be reason enough!
I will end my monologue here.
Namaskar.
Subramanian R., ...end up in prison caught by the policeman... Such sublime ideas were unknown to the West until Sanskrit books of Sri Sankara and Sri Bhagavan were exported to them...
I mean, dear Subramanian R., that 'crass globalisation' is itself an idea the mind is locked in, isn't it? (This is true for the ones surfing on the waves of globalisation as for its critics.) The fear is the price the worldly mind has to pay ever for touching this world.
The mystics all over the world knew this verities since a long time, dear Subramanian R., european and even christian mystics as well. The philosophy of Master Eckhart or Nicolaus Cusanus partially is true vedanta.
R.Subramanian/Friends,
The following excerpt is typical and shows what a childlike nature Sri Ramakrishna had,yet it was unfathomable:
A devotee had brought a basket of jilipi for the Master, which the latter kept by his side.
Eating a bit of the sweets, he said to Prankrishna with a smile: "You see, I chant the name
of the Divine Mother; so I get all these good things to eat. (Laughter.) But She doesn't give
such fruits as gourd or pumpkin. She bestows the fruit of Amrita, Immortality-knowledge,
love, discrimination, renunciation, and so forth."
A boy six or seven years old entered the room. The Master himself became like a child. He
covered the contents of the basket with the palm or his hand, as a child does to conceal
sweets from another child lest the latter should snatch them. Then he put the basket aside.
Suddenly the Master went into samadhi and sat thus a long time. His body was transfixed,
his eyes wide open and unwinking, his breathing hardly perceptible. After a long time he
drew a deep breath, indicating his return to the world of sense."
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Like that of Karaikal Amma, there is some interesting story about Chandikeswara also. He was a brahmin, but was asked to take the cows of the villagers to farmlands
for grazing. There, he made a Siva Lingam, from out of sand and was doing puja with jungle flowers. The cows came of their own and poured its milk on the Siva Lingam. His father saw this once day and seeing the 'waste' of milk, kicked the Siva Lingam. Chandikeswara took his stick, which instantly became an axe and severed both the legs of his father. Siva appeared before him and took him to His abode. He is made the guardian angel of Siva temples. Apart from Siva, Skanda and Ganesa are also having Chandikeswaras in big temples. I have seen Chandikeswara in Murugan temple in Bangalore. Chandikeswara is ever in penance and so one should only go near him and clap his palms almost inaudibly to announce his leaving. Then the devotee should show his upper cloth, to make Him know that he is not stealing any Siva's property and taking only Vibhuti, kumkum and flowers given by the priest. People, without understanding this principle, clap their hands as if in a cricket match, and as if Chandikeswara is deaf! Periya Puranam says that Siva said: He will be given the post of guarding my devotees, and properties. He shall be eligible for my food, clothing and konRai flowers. That is why, priests give these to Chandikeswara even today. [Verse 1261 of PP]. Siva Nirmalyam is only for Chandikeswara. That is why in Sri Soundarya Lahari, it is said that Skanda and Ganesa take the Devi Nirmalyam of chewed betel leaves and nuts, but Chandikeswara does not partake.
Dear Ravi,
If it is so, I agree with you. In which case, the flowers are also going to wither in the evening, the grass too will become yellowish and die in a few days, then what is wrong in plucking them, and walking over grass. They are only sheaths.
Somehow this point still haunts me while reading SRK.
Dear Clemens Vagas Ramos,
I agree. But these philosophers'
ideas was not universal in West or Europe. But the idea of Chaitanyam within each soul is known to almost all Indians, since ancient days.
Even from TiruvaLLuvar days, it is known. He has said, only for the moneyed person, this world is, for dharmic person, another world is waiting. In fact Osborne used to quote one Guenon who has understood Vedanta very well and he has written about this in his books. So also Shopenhoeur [spelling?] and Kant. But their ideas were restricted to select individuals but was not universally known.
Dear Clemens Vargas Ramos,
That way I like T.S. Eliot, most of his poems particularly the Waste Land and Four Quartrets speak about going beyond the materialism and attaining the Beyond.
What are the roots that clutch,
What branches grow out of this stony rubbish,
Son of Man, for you know only a heap of broken images,
When the sun beats, dead trees give no shelter and cricket* no relief. [* a humming jungle insect]
R.Subramanian,
"In which case, the flowers are also going to wither in the evening, the grass too will become yellowish and die in a few days, then what is wrong in plucking them, and walking over grass."
By the same token,one may ask 'If one does not eat fish as it tantamounts to killing Fish',one may as well ask 'one should not eat keerai(Greens)as it tantamounts to killing the plant'.
The point in Sri Ramakrishna recounting that wonderful vision of his is not 'NON KILLING or NON PLUCKING' of the Flowers.It is that they have been already offered to the Lord.There is no one to do the worship and none to accept it and no beginning or ending of the worship!It is going on all the time!
We cannot offer something what is already offered to the lord!
It is to say that with this,the sadhana period is over.
Sri Ramakrishna had offered coconut and flowers to the Divine Mother umpteen times subsequently-not as Sadhana!
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
... So also Shopenhoeur [spelling?] and Kant. But their ideas were restricted to select individuals but was not universally known....
[Schopenhauer]
I agree. The philosophy of the West unfortunately is completely individualistic. We don't have here a house which is build by individuals over the time but instead we have individuals building there own houses.
salutations to all:
subramanian/ravi:
remember the famous story from the mahAbhArata about the demon vAtApi and sage agastya? given his ability to transform into any creature, vAtApi and his brother ilvala, who hated brAhmaNAs, used to invite the latter for a sumptuous meat feast (typically a goat). after the meal, ilvala used to ask his brother to 'come out', and vAtApi would emerge by tearing open the brAhmaNA. but when the wily demons tried their vile act on agastya, they met their match. vAtApi was totally 'digested' and was destroyed!
now what does it show? in the olden days, brAhmaNAs used to routinely eat meat. also, some of the major sacrifices conducted by the brAhmaNAs involved slaughtering of animals (cow/goat/horse etc.), and the leftovers of the meat was distributed to many as a sacrificial offering. it is highly likely that the strong emphasis against all such 'killings' may have come from the buddha (i remember svAmiji (vivekAnanda) also drawing this reference to ahimsa in one of his talks), which later on got assimilated, among a few other principles, within sanAtana dharma. i doubt whether the vEda ever really spoke about ahimsa in the way we understand it to be. svAmiji himself is quite categorical in defining 'ahimsa' to be more in the spirit of 'absence of jealousy' (rAja yoga lectures) than a superficial non-killing of animals! in any case, in the present time, those who are brAhmaNAs merely by the accident of birth but otherwise a chaNdAla (like me), and are vegetarians because of 'habit' are perhaps not really unqualified to talk anything about ahimsa [he/she who has realised 'brahman' alone is qualified to be addressed as a brAhmaNa] :-)
let me also add that it's an entirely another thing for the mind that has got purified by sAdhanA to naturally develop an aversion for things like meat, which are more difficult to digest and can be done away with, as was the case with arthur osborne or devarAja mudaliAr etc. owing to chitta-shuddhi, it's highly plausible for such a mind to have developed the subtlety to observe the effect of the nature of food consumed on itself.
R.Subramanian,
What is the nature of Sadhana,for one like Sri Ramakrishna.The Master himself has expressed this in his inimitable way:
Description of the nitya-siddha
"The nityasiddha is in a class apart. He is like arani wood. A little rubbing produces fire.
You can get fire from it even without rubbing. The nityasiddha realizes God by practising
slight spiritual discipline and sometimes without practising any at all. But he does practise
spiritual discipline after realizing God. He is like the gourd or pumpkin vine―first fruit,
then flower."
The pundit smiled at this illustration.
MASTER: "There is the instance of Prahlada. He was a nityasiddha. While writing the
letter 'ka' he shed a stream of tears"It reminded him of Krishna. It is the nature of jivas to doubt. They say yes, no doubt, but...
-----------------------------------
Sri Ramakrishna fell into an inward mood. Hirananda and M. were seated near him. There
was complete silence in the room. The Master's body was being racked with indescribable
pain. The devotees could not bear the sight of this illness; but somehow the Master made
them forget his suffering. He sat there, his face beaming as if there were no trace of illness
in his throat. The devotees had placed flowers and garlands before him as their loving
offerings. He picked up a flower and touched with it first his head, then his throat, heart,
and navel. To the devotees he seemed a child playing with flowers.
Sri Ramakrishna used to tell the devotees that his divine visions and moods were
accompanied by the rising of a spiritual current inside his body.
Now he talked to M.
MASTER: "I don't remember when the current went up. Now I am in the mood of a child.
That is why I am playing with the flowers this way.
Master's exalted vision
Do you know what I see now? I see my body as a frame made of bamboo strips and
covered with a cloth. The frame moves. And it moves because someone dwells inside it.
"Again, I see the body to be like a pumpkin with the seeds scooped out. Inside this body
there is no trace of passion or worldly attachment. It is all very clean inside, and- "
It became very painful for Sri Ramakrishna to talk further. He felt very weak. M. quickly
guessed what the Master wanted to tell the devotees, and said, "And you are seeing God
inside yourself."
MASTER: "Both inside and outside. The Indivisible Satchidananda-I see It both inside and
outside. It has merely assumed this sheath [meaning his body] for a support and exists both
inside and outside. I clearly perceive this."
-----------------------------------
The above was said during his last days when the Master's body was totally emaciated as he was suffering from cancer of the throat.He clearly told Naren-'he who was Rama,he who was Krishna is now this Ramakrishna;not in your vedantic sense
This is not for mass consumption-just given here as a statement of what the Master said.
Namaskar.
s,
I totally agree with you.Yes,Swamiji used to occasionally eat meat to increase 'rajas'!!!What a bizarre situation this.
jivas are struggling to give up desire,acquire satvic qualities -to realize the Self.Here we find that the Nitya siddhas are 'increasing' rajas to carry out the 'mission'!Without that,he would have disappeared much before he reached the age of 39!
-----------------------------------
On animal sacrifice,I will get hold of what The sage of kanchi had said-he has said that the Vedas do sanction it,under special circumstances!
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
subramanian/ravi:
heard of svAmi paramAnanda? he was the youngest person to be initiated into sannyAsa by svAmi vivekAnanda himself. paramAnanda was sent to america by the RK mission and that's where he spent the rest of his life. his most beautiful story is in a book titled 'a bridge of dreams' (he was indeed the embodiment of love).
i don't have the book with me but i do sort-of remember an incident relating to the topic we are talking about. paramAnanda was, i think, a brAhmaNa by birth, and though brAhmaNAs of bengAl are used to eating meat, the svAmi even during his pre-monastic days resolved to abstain from eating non-vegetarian food. now it so happened, i think it was an occasion of kAli puja time after he got the initiation - when all sat for the meal (svAmi vivekAnanda was sitting right next to paramAnanda), the meat offered to the Mother was being distributed as 'prasad'. paramAnanda gently requested the food-serving monk, by a sign, to not serve him the 'meat-prasad'. svAmiji observed this and promptly took the meat from his leaf and placed it on paramAnanda's leaf! paramAnanda was horrified, for now he was in a most difficult dilemma - he strictly didn't want to eat but also he cannot refuse the prasad offered by his guru (vivekAnanda) - what could he do??? his guru-bhaktI finally won and he reluctantly partook the meat offering.
svAmiji after enjoying the conflict his young disciple was going through told him (which i paraphrase here): '...a true sannyAsi, who is prescribed to beg his food for the day, is not expected to have any 'choice' on what's offered to him as bhiksha in the course of begging. having totally surrendered to the lord & his guru, he ought to accept whatever comes his way as a 'prasad' and gratefully take it without any kind of preferences. this is part & parcel of a genuine renunciation...' :-)
salutations to all:
CORRIGENDUM :-)
please read the sentence in my earlier comment as this:
in any case, in the present time, those who are brAhmaNAs merely by the accident of birth but otherwise a chaNdAla (like me), and are vegetarians because of 'habit' are perhaps NOT really qualified to talk anything about ahimsa [he/she who has realised 'brahman' alone is qualified to be addressed as a brAhmaNa] :-)
R.Subramanian,
Wonderful story of chandikeswara;it was always fun since childhood to go and make a sound with one's fingers before him.Borrowing a leaf from Paramahansa Yogananda,one may say that it is in this place that human instincts coincided with divine sanction!Sometime later another view emerged that one should not disturb chandikeswara amidst his Dhyana!One's instints had to be again reined in,not to make a sound before chandikeswara!
Just kidding!Yes,one must observe all these and it does aid in steeping one in the spiritual ambience that permeates the temples.
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.
Dear S.,
I agree with your views. Sacrificing
animals and eating the remnants is a
horrible practice of the ancient days. Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman
says Yaga Pasu, sacrificial animal,
is not the animals but the sacrificer himself. He is not killing himself and only his ego is killed by invoking gods through sacrifices.
s,
"heard of svAmi paramAnanda?"
"Where is the Brahmachari whose face was shining like the Sun?"-Swamiji was enquiring about a young lad.This was Swami paramananda-a great soul!He was sent to Madras RK mutt and was trained by sashi maharaj(RamakrishnAnanda),a strict disciplinarian before he was sent to America.
The swami's books are Great classics like Concentration and Meditation,Silence as Yoga,Faith is power,...all wonderfully lucid.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
This is a wonderful passage from
Sri Rama Krishna. One who sheds tears by chanting or hearing names
of god, is closer to liberation.
In Saiva literature it is said that
there are five types of Panchakshara.
Sthoola Panchaksharam - Groos form.-
Namasivaya
Sukshma Panchaksharam - Subtle form
Sivaya Namah.
There is double headed Ruby -
Siva Siva.
There is treasure hidden Ruby -
Sivayasiva. here ya denotes Uma.
And then there is Si. This is called Nayotti Mantram. i.e we drive out the dog with si, or chi. Some siddhars were going into Samadhi even by pronouncing
Si. They had no interest in telling the full panchksharam.
Dear S,
I like your last post. One who has
the support of Brahman [chari]is
a Brahmana. Not all others. Just because you abstain from meat and fish. Further what Kanchi Swami said,
I have also read in his discourses.
There he says, after animal sacrifices, the brahmins will eat a
wheat-size, small bit of meat as prasad. Even this is not acceptable to me. When animal sacrifices are themselves to be abhorred, where is the question of wheat-size or rice-size. I think
this abstention from meat one should learn from Jains. Because later Buddhists start eating meat. In Hongkong my sons say
that meat stalls are there right at the entrance of Buddhist temples!
s/R.Subramanaian,
I think we are going overboard by saying only those who know Brahman are Brahmanas or Brahmacharis!at any point of time these can be counted!
I have discussed at length earlier and will not go into it again.I will briefly recapitulate:
The Brahmin who has been assigned the primary responsibility of chanting the Vedas and taking care of the Spiritual welfare of Society have hardly any time to think about food.What he has to eat and what he should not is also laid out in the satras.
This is another matter whether such people are still there.Yes,they still are there,only rare to come by.
The Definition of BrAhmaNan is from the roots Brahman +aNan,and anthaNan is from antham+aNan.The aNan means one who is 'near' Brahman by his anushtanas.He is only 'near' and not Brahman.He is not a jnani.
In tirukkural,tiruvaLLuvar spells out who anthaNan is:
anthaNan enbOr aravOr marrevuyirkkum senthanmai poondu ozhugalal.
"Brahmins are they who are Dharmic(aram in tamil);for they PRACTISE kindness to all living beings"
Now one may immediately pounce on this and say-well VaLLuvar is clearly saying that anyone who is kind and Dharmic is a Brahmin.To offset it,he also says(verse 134):
"The Brahmin who has forgotten his chant could commit it back to memory;but if he neglects his Right conduct he will lose his Birth discipline."
Likewise in the periya purAnam as well the glory of vedAs and the brAhmins is clearly expressed.
-----------------------------------
I also prefer that one should be a vegetarian,one should be sensitive to all forms of life;yet these things cannot be made into a fetish.
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian,
The sage of kanchi is a Jnani and what he says cannot be deemed as 'opinionated' or his personal opinion.
Here is Sri Ramakrishna giving exactly the same answer.
Much reasoning condemned
ADHAR (to the Master): "Sir, I have a question to ask. Is it good to sacrifice animals
before the Deity? It certainly involves killing."
MASTER: "The sastra prescribes sacrifice on special occasions. Such sacrifice is not
harmful. Take, for instance, the sacrifice of a goat on the eighth day of the full or new
moon.
"I am now in such a state of mind that I cannot watch a sacrifice. Also I cannot eat meat
offered to the Divine Mother. Therefore I first touch my finger to it, then to my head, lest
She should be angry with me.
"Again, in a certain state of mind I see God in all beings, even in an ant. At that time, if I
see a living being die, I find consolation in the thought that it is the death of the body, the
soul being beyond life and death.
"One should not reason too much; it is enough if one loves the Lotus Feet of the Mother.
Too much reasoning throws the mind into confusion. You get clear water if you drink from
the surface of a pool. Put your hand deeper and stir the water, and it becomes muddy.
Therefore pray to God for devotion.
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Subramanian.R
"One who sheds tears by chanting or hearing names of god, is closer to liberation." and "Some siddhars were going into Samadhi even by pronouncing Si."
the current president of Ramanaasramam told me that he has seen Muruganar melt into tears even when he started saying Ba(ghavan). the mouth just froze and tears would stream down. how blessed, how blessed.
R p
R.Subramanian,
"Because later Buddhists start eating meat"
This is one of the fundamental point behind varna ashrama Dharma-that it recognizes that one dharma cannot fit all.Each one has to proceed from where he is.Not all can practise Ahimsa in all its rigour.For instance,it is foolish to expect a Kshatriya to follow ahimsa!He needs to be trained to kill when necessary.
This is a vast subject and as I have already said,this cannot be covered in this forum.I
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian/Friends,
We will find Sri Ramakrishna talking about different states of mind!This is one way in which it is possible for the avatar to empathise with the problems of jivas in an intimate way.This way it is possible to guide and encourage seekers in a higly personalised manner.For Girish Gosh,we find Sri Ramakrishna sending a devotee to fetch his bottle!(liquor!).Again,he will not ask kAlipAda not to visit houses of illfame!He will chide Niranjan for rocking the boat when some passengers spoke ill of Sri Ramakrishna and again he will pull Yogen for putting up silently when someone spoke derisively about Sri Ramakrishna!
Each one will be advised in a manner that is in tune with his innate nature.Each one succeded.
I have posted how Bhavanath was told to beware of 'woman' and 'Gold'(when Naren tells SRK about Bhavanath giving up fish).Whatever happened to Bhavnath?!
Swami Chetanananda has brought this in a beautiful book 'They lived with God':
Sri Ramakrishna’s grace began to flow over Bhavanath Chattopadhyay’s life, but Bhavanath suddenly pulled down his sail, putting his spiritual journey in peril. His condition was like that of a man who puts his left leg in one boat and his right in another. Bhavanath ascended to a higher plane of consciousness by the grace of the Master, but mysterious Mahamaya entangled him and brought him back down to the world."
Bhavanath missed the bus and could not regain his rhythm.The Master had warned him sufficiently in advance!
Same thing happened to another sadhaka who had experienced samadhi-Nitya gopal-Sri Ramakrishna had warned him saying:'Beware Holy man' when he came to know that he was visiting another lady Devotee and considered her his mother!
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
ravi:
this could be rather unjust to some here, yet you can take any definition you like, but whatever they may be, even if you take the most lenient of them, 'perhaps' neither you nor subramanian (surely not i) nor anybody in this blog can be even remotely considered as brAhmaNAs!
(you may check for yourself how many of the prescriptions given by the mahAperiyavA or by vaLLuvar are actually being implemented by you or others here; of course, you have the right to 'imagine' yourself to be a brAhmaNa, but that doesn't mean a thing - am willing to concede that there could be 'brAhmaNAs', who haven't realised yet, but it may just be rather too vain to include ourselves in that league) :-)
That's one thing I wonder about, what are the dangers of being on the path, and falling from the path, or getting close to realization and falling from the path? I recall Maharshi telling Annamalai Swami that if he lost that union with God, he would be worse than the worst atheists. What does that mean? Does that mean, someone would be reborn as a sand-worm and have to start over? In the Bhagavad Gita, it says that, if one falls from the path of seeking union with Brahman, one will still get a good birth, and continue in the next life, despite oneself, one will be re-introduced to the path. I just kind of wonder about even worse consequences. That's the thing, being in the presence of an actual jnani, Nome, the experience is so intense, so, so intense, everytime I'm in Satsang. I can kind of see that big Reality animating him. So clearly, some of what is taught in the Upanishads is absolute truth, experientially, I see that. I wonder about how karma actually works, not someone's opinion about it. It almost seems akin to physical laws (but subjective, not objective). If one dies more or less in a state of grace, will one get a good birth, even if not realized. Does grace trump karma, is something I wonder about? It feels like it does. It removes obstacles. Does it get rid of bad karma? Or does one need moksha to be free of past karma? I was reading about Buddhist hells, and some of them one would spend trillions of years there. Are those real? There is just a lot that I wonder about. I recall there were chapters in Be As You Are about stuff like this.
Hi folks,
Well, a lot of opinions regarding eating non-veg food have been put up, some personal, some quoting other Masters ….
Just thought to remind everyone that if there was one injunction that Sri Bhagavan was absolutely uncompromising about, it was regarding the eating of non-veg food by a sadhaka. Whether it was consecrated or not did not make the slightest difference.
Different Masters can have different opinions; and so, Sri Ramakrishna partook of tamasic prasad occasionally, and Sw Vivekananda could eat meat and smoke too. Also, can we say that eating non-veg food will absolutely disqualify a person from attaining Self-realization? Probably not. But it will make the journey much tougher for sure. People here would have read how Sri Bhagavan has explained the same in terms of the tamasic impact such a diet has.
And so the injunction from Sri Bhagavan for His followers; in that for those who would follow His method of vichara for Self-realization, they would do well to avoid meat like the plague, even if it be just one consecrated morsel, or be offered by a Sw. Vivekananda himself!
Best wishes
R.Subramanian,
"Even from TiruvaLLuvar days, it is known. He has said, only for the moneyed person, this world is, for dharmic person, another world is waiting"
Which verse is this!?
Namaskar.
Even though I'm in the presence of an actual Jnani. One thing about it, is it really makes obvious, the flaws that weren't obvious in my own ego. Sometimes, for me, being in the presence of a jnani can be scary, because all the ego's crutches don't function. Of course, things are in a much greater balance and harmony, or a great harmony is revealed. The ego does seem to get scared, shamed into non-existence. Not by the behavior of the sage, which is full of equanimity, and kindness, though may not be validating toward my 'issues'. But by the Presence of the sage. That fills the atmosphere around him. Things become a lot more obvious, the ways I lie to, and deceive myself in so many ways. That's the interesting thing, is a lot of times the previous mental practices I would do, in the name of "self-inquiry", would be on top of, gross ego. (literally gross). All this nasty ego-stuff, self-deceit, tamasic indolence. The sage's Truth cuts right through all of that. And then one doesn't need to do all that mental practice, but continue to question how one is creating one's own ego and problems, deceiving oneself out of one's own responsibility. Another thing, is I've started listening on an I-pod to Satsangs at SAT with Nome, and the Song of Ribhu read by Nome which is at satramana.org. It really makes being outside of Satsang, a lot more like Satsang. If one has some other sage, one likes in modern times, where there are recordings of that sage, perhaps Papaji, or Krishnamurti, one thing people could do, is get a bunch of mp3s of them, and when they are running errands, or even at work, listen to them, because there Presence, may give one a much stronger awareness of joyful non-doership.
s,
"neither you nor subramanian (surely not i) nor anybody in this blog can be even remotely considered as brAhmaNAs!"
Yes.We definitely fall way short of what is demanded by the Sage of kanchi.On that account,I cannot say that the ideal is 'impractical'!If there are a few who live upto this ideal,they need to be supported.This has my whole hearted support.
Namaskar.
This is Nome's letter to me on vegetarian diet.
Dear [],
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
Namaste. Thank you for your messages.
Compassion initially derives from the perception that the ignorance
that creates the suffering or the karma for and by someone else bears
similarities, perhaps, to the ignorance and actions of one's own mind,
speech, and body. Upon deeper inquiry, it is born of the recognition of the
needlessness of suffering and the unreal nature of the ignorance that is its
cause.
Are there two selves that one should gain or lose the other? To
think the "I" will stay in or step out of the "I"-less Self still includes
the false assumption that is to be abandoned. Inquiry, steady, continuous,
and deep, nonobjective and complete, accomplishes this in the revelation of
the one Self without a second.
Destruction of vasanas is wise. Perseverance fueled by the desire
for Liberation is very beneficial.
In response to your question about vegetarian diet: Sri Ramana gave
very few specific directions regarding actions, for his instruction is of
Self-Knowledge. He did, though, advise "sattvic food in moderate
quantities." The same is standard in numerous other teachings, texts, among
the yogis, etc. Sattvic food is defined as traditional vegetarian diet
(includes dairy foods), in which the lives of no creatures are taken. The
reasons for this are multiple. First, since very ancient times, it has been
known that the quality of the food affects the quality of the mind. Some
present day health practitioners may be arriving at a similar conclusion.
Second, the karma of taking lives is there, whether one recognizes such or
denies it. Third, the reason for carnivorous diet among humans is often due
merely to desire (habit, supposed convenience, etc.) and not actual need of
that for nourishment. Fourth, considering the body to be a temple,
consideration is given regarding what is offered in it. Fifth, there is the
matter of integrity. Would you actually slay the cow or other animal
yourself, or would you not but will pay someone else (the butcher in the
slaughterhouse) to do the deed? These can be considered in relation to this
topic.
The Self, itself, though, is not a body, does not consume food, is
beyond life and death, is untouched by a mind, is beyond all karma, is
desireless, is all in all yet beyond all, is actionless, and is the Self
that dwells in the hearts of all as their very Being.
Consume a steady diet of inquiry so that you are full of Knowledge.
Ever yours in Truth,
Nome
Arvind,
"they would do well to avoid meat like the plague, even if it be just one consecrated morsel, or be offered by a Sw. Vivekananda himself!"
We need to include Eggs and cheese as well.I have found Raw onion as quite tAmasic-although,I occasionally take it.The onion boiled in sAmbAr or in vegetable,I have not felt this sort of a 'Heaviness'.
Namaskar.
Friends,
Swami Vivekananda on Meat eating and vegetarianism:
"All liking for fish and meat disappears when pure Sattva is highly developed, and these are the signs of its manifestation in a soul: sacrifice of everything for others, perfect non-attachment to lust and wealth, want of pride and egotism. The desire for animal food goes when these things are seen in a man. And where such indications are absent, and yet you find men siding with the nonkilling party, know it for a certainty that here there is either hypocrisy or a show of religion."
-----------------------------------
Scott,Good to see your posts.Thanks very much.
Namaskar.
arvind,
"they would do well to avoid meat like the plague, even if it be just one consecrated morsel, or be offered by a Sw. Vivekananda himself!"
From another dimension,If Swamiji were to offer 'poison',I will unhesitatingly take it,what to speak of 'meat'!
namaskar.
salutations to all:
arvind/ravi:
i do agree with the prescription of a 'vegetarian' diet, but i also have to say this:
there could be several people who may have been brought up from birth on a non-vegetarian diet, and then much later would have come to bhagavAn, or they could be hailing from environments/ countries whose extreme climatic conditions may require them to consume meat & other related products for sustenance. not every country is like india where the climate is quite conducive enough for someone to adopt a vegetarian diet with relative ease. in these cases too, they may have also taken up self-enquiry in right earnest, and it may be extremely cumbersome for them to simply drop a non-vegetarian menu then & there (devarAja mudaliAr & arthur osborne are good examples, and these were people who had a close proximity to bhagavAn but yet they couldn't give it up just like that!). in their cases, and also with several others today & in the future, to forcibly drop it may not be a feasible option, which also could be the reason bhagavAn prescribed it but didn't compel them to do so (not just in this issue but in other issues as well, as we know, bhagavAn never compelled anyone for anything, for he was too sympathetic to mortal weaknesses!). in all such cases, the healthy way is for one's sAdhanA to be such that one simply forgoes all taste for all kinds of non-vegetarian food and it leaves of its own accord, isn't it? i humbly but firmly hold that no matter what kind of habits & vAsanAs one may be enmeshed with, the efforts at doing vichAra shall do all the rest :-)))
if i look at myself, bhagavAn has been very kind, in the sense that i have neither had the opportunity nor the desire to take a morsel of non-vegetarian food/a drop of intoxicating liquor - i can't take any credit for it but not everyone may be this fortunate, isn't it? :-))) and yes, personally, what to talk of meat - if a vivekAnanda had given me gutter water to drink, i would have, for such a one can also transform the bloodiest meat into purest 'amrtam' :-)))
salutations to all:
ravi: how interesting! what a coincidence! for a change, my 'gutter' does wholeheartedly agree with your 'poison'...hahahahahahaha
s,
Yes,I agree with you.It is not as if Vegetarian food is not available or that one cannot change one's Food habit.Like you,food has never been a problem for me.i can eat just bread ,butter and milk for the rest of my life(if i can afford!).I do not seek change.Yes,I definitely enjoy good vegetarian food but as i said,anything is also fine for me.
On the other hand,I am aware of people who travel from North to South India and insist in having ROti;otherwise they complain that they are starving!Similiarly,the people who go from south to North cannot manage without sAmbAr or curd rice,for a few days!So,even within 'Vegetarian' food,people have strong preferences.Unless this sense of 'TASTE' is mastered,there is very little hope for that sAdhaka.Definitely when one is on a 'staple food' of the soul,one gives less importance to these things.
I enjoyed reading your 'gutter water' prasad from swamiji!Please pass some here as well if you happen to get any!
Namaskar.
LMM, 'If one dies more or less in a state of grace, will one get a good birth, even if not realized. Does grace trump karma, is something I wonder about? It feels like it does. It removes obstacles. Does it get rid of bad karma? Or does one need moksha to be free of past karma? I was reading about Buddhist hells, and some of them one would spend trillions of years there. Are those real? There is just a lot that I wonder about. I recall there were chapters in Be As You Are about stuff like this'
As there's no one enlightened on this blogsite, so no one to answer this mental angst.
Furthermore the topic of 'meat taboo' is an interesting one. Nisargadatta said ' whilst vegetarianism was a worthy cause it was not the most important' or words to that affect.
Scott,
" I recall Maharshi telling Annamalai Swami that if he lost that union with God, he would be worse than the worst atheists. What does that mean?"
I am not aware of this particular statement of Sri Bhagavan.I however can deeply relate to this.
Here is an excerpt from Sri Aurobindo(from 'The hour of God'):
"There are moments when the Spirit moves among men and the breath of the Lord is abroad upon the waters of our being; there are others when it retires and men are left to act in the strength or the weakness of their own egoism. The first are periods when even a little effort produces great results and changes destiny; the second are spaces of time when much labour goes to the making of a little result. It is true that the latter may prepare the former, may be the little smoke of sacrifice going up to heaven which calls down the rain of God's bounty. Unhappy is the man or the nation which, when the divine moment arrives, is found sleeping or unprepared to use it, because the lamp has not been kept trimmed for the welcome and the ears are sealed to the call. But thrice woe to them who are strong and ready, yet waste the force or misuse the moment; for them is irreparable loss or a great destruction. In the hour of God cleanse thy soul of all self-deceit and hypocrisy and vain self-flattering that thou mayst look straight into thy spirit and hear that which summons it. All insincerity of nature, once thy defence against the eye of the Master and the light of the ideal, becomes now a gap in thy armour and invites the blow. Even if thou conquer for the moment, it is the worse for thee, for the blow shall come afterwards and cast thee down in the midst of thy triumph. But being pure cast aside all fear; for the hour is often terrible, a fire and a whirlwind and a tempest, a treading of the winepress of the wrath of God; but he who can stand up in it on the truth of his purpose is he who shall stand; even though he fall, he shall rise again, even though he seem to pass on the wings of the wind, he shall return. Nor let worldly prudence whisper too closely in thy ear; for it is the hour of the unexpected, the incalculable, the immeasurable. Mete not the power of the Breath by thy petty instruments, but trust and go forward. But most keep thy soul clear, even if for a while, of the clamour of the ego. Then shall a fire march before thee in the night and the storm be thy helper and thy flag shall wave on the highest height of the greatness that was to be conquered."
What Sri Aurobindo has expressed so beautifully is not some 'pious' sermon but everyone who has tread the path of Yoga will testify to it.There are two sides to this-It emphasizes that one needs to be careful and awake;at the same time it emphasize that even this care and strength comes from the Divine,and one needs to recognize this and be aware of this from moment to moment,supremely confident that whatever is necssary will be done.
Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.
Hi Ravi,
Thanks for the story.When I read recently that Param SRK did only eat food cooked by pure Brahmins I did not understand why.Your clipping answers it.Here is a quick summary of the three stories that you posted which I wrote for myself:
1)Greats cannot be judged by small outer habits and nuances but may be adduced to sadhakas.Again different rules of judgement for different levels of sadhakas but one who has gone beyond cause and effect no rules to be adduced.Then how do we know that one has gone beyond cause and effect? We just have to take it on face value.That is why Param said beyond THAT it is wolves howling.
2)But for sadhakas it is better to follow the rules of the sadhana like refraining from non-veg etc. Specific rules effect specific vasanas.But once a sadhaka crosses that particular stage of evolution into the next he may delve on refrains of the previous stage. For eg: It probably is OK for Vivekananda to smoke or eat fish and not for a lower sadhaka.But how do we know these different stages of developement and their specific refrains.It is watertight. Follow the Guru or when in doubt use common sense or follow the traditions of the time and place(for eg: fish is vegetarian for Bengalis etc) or simply follow all the refrains to be on safe side
3)Param SRK does certain activites that are a result of him being on a conscious plane.These allow him to continue his work as a Master and teacher.Again one is neither the result of the other but both happen simulataneously.I.e he is not on our plane becuase he eats variety of dishes etc and vice versa.From the devotee point of view he comes down to help us and carry the work of the Mother but from the Jnani point of view he comes down becuase he comes down i.e no reason or point of view.It is a natural occurence and reaction.
4)The contradiction of him not eating meat but fish is probably habits like all the Jnanis still doing puja to their gurus for eg:NM or Papaji etc.
-z
Correction on Param SRK being able to taste the prasad of Fish but not prasad of meat and if animal sacrifice to Mother is justified :
I see Param saying OK in certain circumstances as accepting some old customs of the Devotees 'as it is' inorder to bring then into the fold in the first place. Too much discussion on the past rituals/rules will only end up in sidetracking unless in the role of a Sankaracharya or Madhawacharya. For eg: Madhawacharya using goats made from dough to replace live animal sacrifices.
-z
Hi S, Ravi, folks
Well, if the great Sw. Vivekananda were to appear before me and ask me to eat a meat prasad, I would tell him:
“O great Swami, you are a great Guru yourself. My Guru Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi has instructed that meat, consecrated or otherwise, is to be avoided like the plague. And so please do not put me in the position of disobeying my Guru’s wishes. Kindly do not give me the meat prasad. In alternation, even poison or gutter water is most welcome, or just give me the dust of your feet.”
:-)
Best wishes
Dear Ravi,
I agree with what VaLLuvar said.
One who is dharmic and also shows
good disposition [senthaNmai] to
others is a true brahmin. As I said
in one of my previous posts, these
classification by birth came about
beacuse to be a brahmin is the toughest task, it needs long years of training and living with food given by others. Brahmins should not even save food for next day.
In today's context, all such classifications have lost their
purpose, because brahmin is not able to live as a brahmin and so on.
Dear Anon,
Yes. Muruganar is a rare gem of a devotee for Bhagavan. Once someone
asked him, as to what sadhana he did to attain self realization. Muruganar became red in his face and then said: "What Sadhana? Where
was the time? Sri Bhagavan did not leave me even to close my eyes!"
Saint Manikkavachagar says in TiruvesaRavu, Verse 10, Tiruvachakam: "What penance could I do? I just said Sivaya Namah,
He came and filled my Heart as
honey and nectar. He came on his own and filled my Heart, and graced me."
Dear S.,
Yes. We might have been born as brahmins. That is an accident. But we are not living up to the requirements of brahminism. Perhaps
we may be strict vegetarians. But that is not enough. How many of us know Sanskrit? Vedas? Atleast Purushs Suktam and Sri Rudram, by heart. Do we not save money for next day's food? How many of us know the names of 3 or 7 rishis
that is our lineage?
Dear Losing M. Mind.,
Yes. After proceeding in the path,
if one falls from the path, it is like travelling in a crane and falling from a great height. The injury is severe. We would have
been better off, without even getting into the crane at the first place. I think, this tells about our state in the current birth and not about about our carry-over of whatever merits we have accumulated for the use in the next birth, if any. Sri Sankara says it is like a falling ball from the steps of the stairs. The fall of the ball is quite swift.
Dear Ravi,
It is something like this. I don't
remember the full KuRaL: PoruL illarku ivvulaham illai, AruL illarku
avvulaham illahiyangu..
Dear Ravi,
There is one village called Mathur,
near Shimoga, in Karnataka. There,
there are brahmin streets. The whole village [consisting of certain other caste people too] speak among themselves in Sanskrit! The brahmins there own some lands and spend time in Vedic learning only. The lands give them enough income for simple livelihood! They do not mostly go out of their village, at best they go to Shimoga for buying some essential things, which are not
available in Mathur. The girls do not study much excepting reading,
writing and speaking Sanskrit. All these villagers know of course,
Kannada. No films. No TVs. Newspapers, I am not sure. Definitely no computers. This is what I have heard from my office friends about 10 years ago. I do not know now. There could be some villages like this in Andhra and Kerala too.
Dear Losing M. Mind,
Thanks for the excellent explanation given by Dr. Nome. I think this sums up the whole thing.
Dear Ravi,
Onion is approved by Sri Bhagavan Himself. Even during His days, this was permitted. Once He remarked
after seeing the heaps of onion skins, "Please dig a pit and put them inside. Orthodox brahmins would comment about it." Even today excepting during Navaratri and Aadi Tamizh month, they serve onion sambhar and onion potato mixed curries in the Asramam.
During Sri Bhagavan's days, brahmins were given alternate sambhar or curries.
Travelers wonder how to reach Cold Mountain.
No road stretches so far; the streams end far below.
Summer ice darkens the greens.
Sunrise labours to burn off the mist.
How did a gray squat thing like me arrive?
I make my journey sitting still.
glow
Dear S., Ravi,
I find even in cross caste marriages,
if one of the spouses alone is vegetarian, the marriage quickly breaks. If both are vegetarians the cross caste marriages work well otherwise. That is why Hindu vegetarian / Moslem marriages do not go through well. Hindu - Bernard Shaw type Christian marriages work well.
friends,
there seem to be admirers of Kanchi Mahaperiyava in this forum. i count myself one among the many fortunate to have seen this nadamaadum kankanda deivam in his bodily form. divinity, love, compassion, grace......words are not enough to describe His Holiness.
Ravi, I read one of your earlier posts about this Mahaan and absolutely agree. This small made GIANT walked the length and breath of our bhoomi to see the poorest among the poor while drawing the richest and the most powerful to wherever he was. He is someone whose very name moves me to tears like my beloved Bhagavan does.
i hope many of you have read about a poor devotee named purandarakesavulu. if not, please do let me know and i will post the article. i am sure you will be moved to tears at God's grace.
R p
Dear friends,
It is interesting to note that both
Tiru VaLLuvar and Tiru Moolar insist
on non-drinking liquor, non-meat eating and not lusting another man's
wife. Tiru VaLLuvar has written one
decad on each of these. Tiru Moolar says:
On Non violence:
1. For the worship of the Lord many flowers are available.
But the best is not killing even an atom of life,
The best steady flame is the tranquil mind,
The best place for worship is the Heart where the Soul resides.
On forbidding meat eating:
2. The ignoble ones who base flesh do eat,
Death's agents bind them fast for all to see,
And push them quick into the fiery jaws of hell,
And fling them down there for ever to be.
Not committing adultery:
3. The dear, wedded wife pines within the home,
But lusting youth covets the guarded neighbour's mate;
Even as one, declining the luscious ripeness of the jack,
Yearns for the tamer taste of thorny date.
I'm happy. After all my translation of Swami Venkatesanandas Yoga Vasistha is going to be published soon. I was told so yesterday. At present there is a lot of anger and madness around me but my mind is full of joy. Nothing can touch the one being immersed in the heart of the Holy Sciences. I never wanted to be a sage but instead a servant for the sages for ever and ever.
VASISTHA said:
I have thus provided you with a net woven with words which are indicative of the highest truth: tie down the bird of your mind with this net and let the mind then rest in your heart. Thus shall you attain self-knowledge. o Rama, have you absorbed this truth imparted by me, although it is mixed with varied expressions and illustrations, even as the proverbial swan is able to separate milk from water when these are mixed together and to drink the milk alone?
You should contemplate this truth again and again, from beginning to end, reflect upon it and you should march along this path now, O noble one. Though engaged in diverse activities, you will not be bound if your intelligence is saturated with this truth; otherwise, you will fall, even as an elephant falls from the cliff. Again, if you conceptualise this teaching for your intellectual entertainment and do not let it act in your life, you will stumble and fall like a blind man.
In order to reach the state of perfection or liberation taught by me you should live a life of non-attachment, doing what is appropriate in every situation as it resches you. Rest assured that this is the vital factor in the teachings of all scriptures.
Part VI: On Liberation
Dear Clemens Vargas Ramos,
I am happy about your shortly published translation of YV. In
what language is this translation?
Is it going to be available in India? Is it through Sri Ramakrisha Math? Please write to the members
of this blog.
Arvind,
"O great Swami, you are a great Guru yourself. My Guru Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi has instructed that meat, consecrated or otherwise, is to be avoided like the plague. And so please do not put me in the position of disobeying my Guru’s wishes."
I enjoyed your post ,how you are also ready to take gutter water or poisaon,in case Swamiji gives the same!Coming to the above statement,would like to recall the wonderful incident from 'Autobiogrpahy of a Yogi',from the chapter 47, 'I Return to the West'.
""Mr. Dickinson!" The next parcel contained a gift which I had bought in a Calcutta bazaar. "Mr. Dickinson will like this," I had thought at the time. A dearly beloved disciple, Mr. Dickinson had been present at every Christmas festivity since the 1925 founding of Mt. Washington. At this eleventh annual celebration, he was standing before me, untying the ribbons of his square little package.
"The silver cup!" Struggling with emotion, he stared at the present, a tall drinking cup. He seated himself some distance away, apparently in a daze. I smiled at him affectionately before resuming my role as Santa Claus.
The ejaculatory evening closed with a prayer to the Giver of all gifts; then a group singing of Christmas carols.
Mr. Dickinson and I were chatting together sometime later.
"Sir," he said, "please let me thank you now for the silver cup. I could not find any words on Christmas night."
"I brought the gift especially for you."
"For forty-three years I have been waiting for that silver cup! It is a long story, one I have kept hidden within me." Mr. Dickinson looked at me shyly. "The beginning was dramatic: I was drowning. My older brother had playfully pushed me into a fifteen-foot pool in a small town in Nebraska. I was only five years old then. As I was about to sink for the second time under the water, a dazzling multicolored light appeared, filling all space. In the midst was the figure of a man with tranquil eyes and a reassuring smile. My body was sinking for the third time when one of my brother's companions bent a tall slender willow tree in such a low dip that I could grasp it with my desperate fingers. The boys lifted me to the bank and successfully gave me first-aid treatment. "
Continued...
Arvind,
Autobiography of a yogi continued...
"Twelve years later, a youth of seventeen, I visited Chicago with my mother. It was 1893; the great World Parliament of Religions was in session. Mother and I were walking down a main street, when again I saw the mighty flash of light. A few paces away, strolling leisurely along, was the same man I had seen years before in vision. He approached a large auditorium and vanished within the door.
"'Mother,' I cried, 'that was the man who appeared at the time I was drowning!'
"She and I hastened into the building; the man was seated on a lecture platform. We soon learned that he was Swami Vivekananda of India.1 After he had given a soul-stirring talk, I went forward to meet him. He smiled on me graciously, as though we were old friends. I was so young that I did not know how to give expression to my feelings, but in my heart I was hoping that he would offer to be my teacher. He read my thought.
"'No, my son, I am not your guru.' Vivekananda gazed with his beautiful, piercing eyes deep into my own. 'Your teacher will come later. He will give you a silver cup.' After a little pause, he added, smiling, 'He will pour out to you more blessings than you are now able to hold.'
"I left Chicago in a few days," Mr. Dickinson went on, "and never saw the great Vivekananda again. But every word he had uttered was indelibly written on my inmost consciousness. Years passed; no teacher appeared. One night in 1925 I prayed deeply that the Lord would send me my guru. A few hours later, I was awakened from sleep by soft strains of melody. A band of celestial beings, carrying flutes and other instruments, came before my view. After filling the air with glorious music, the angels slowly vanished.
"The next evening I attended, for the first time, one of your lectures here in Los Angeles, and knew then that my prayer had been granted."
We smiled at each other in silence.
"For eleven years now I have been your Kriya Yoga disciple," Mr. Dickinson continued. "Sometimes I wondered about the silver cup; I had almost persuaded myself that Vivekananda's words were only metaphorical. But on Christmas night, as you handed me the square box by the tree, I saw, for the third time in my life, the same dazzling flash of light. In another minute I was gazing on my guru's gift which Vivekananda had foreseen for me forty-three years earliera silver cup!"
-----------------------------------
So Friend,you will never get an opportunity to tell Swamiji the quoted words ,in case you ever get to meet our Swamiji!
Namaskar.
z,
I am happy that some of the posts on sri Ramakrishna are useful to you.It is all thAkur's grace.I will recall just one small incident that surprised everyone including myself.There is a person related to my sister's husband,and this man is a professional astrologer(does not do it for money)and many of his predictions come true.He is also quite a dominating presence and generally relatives keep a safe distance from him or just keep their mouth shut in his presence.
It so happened that I chanced to meet this person in my sister's place.He started the conversation and asked me about my Kula Devata.I pleaded ignorance and he started questioning me-"Without worshipping kula devata,how can you succeed in any undertaking mundane or spiritual,etc,etc".I asked him-"When you are in doubt,does your Kula devata comes to your rescue.".He was stunned and kept mum.I told him,"Guru will come to our aid when one is in doubt.Now tell me why I need a 'Kula' Devata!".He meekly agreed that I do not need one!.I gave him a 15 minute talk on Sri Ramakrishna and he was completely bowled over."Why not come to our place and give a talk.Every month I organize such events and invite people to talk".
"I am not fit to talk about Sri Ramakrishna.I have just told you why I love him.That is all".
I wish that I had noted down what all came through me that day.However much,i try to recollect I am unable to figure out!I only knew that the person who was caught by surprise was me!The way this man became meek and tongue-tied was something that I cannot explain to myself!
I could only assume that it was all the master's Trick.
-----------------------------------
I have just shared this on a as is where is basis.
I do know that The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna is a great resource that has answers to almost anything and everything about spiritual living.If there is one book that I can never finish reading,it is this one!
Namaskar.
Rp,
"He is someone whose very name moves me to tears like my beloved Bhagavan does."
I concur with you 1000%(not 100%!).MahAperiyavA is undoubtedly one of the spiritual giants of this century-I deem him as a 'Nitya siddha' in Sri Ramakrishna's parlance.
You have mentioned the article on Purandara Kesavulu.There was one boy who learnt the songs of Thyagaraja on his own and sing it off key before the Great one(sage of Kanchi)This boy was a shepherd.
one of the tamil magazines,got this story mixed up with the story of another lad who used to bring Bilva leaves for puja when mahaperiyava was camping in calcutta.This boy just used to deliver bilva leaves at the Kanchi Mutt,Camp Calcutta and leave.It never occured to him that he should meet the Great one.The mutt authorities were struggling initially to get the Bilva leaves.It was then that they perchance met this lad and he helped them with the supplies.Mahaperiyava had noticed that Bilva leaves were available in plenty and enquired and found out that it was delivered by an unknown stranger.He advised the Mutt authorities to bring the lad to him.The Next day when he delivered the Bilva leaves,the Mutt officials took him to mahaperiyava.Mahaperiyava enquired about this lad and found that he was a Brahmachari(celibate)and advised him to offer him Bhiksha.the Lad did not know what Offering Bhiksha was;the Sage told him,"Just bring a little of what you have in your house.Food will be cooked here.Have your meals here.This is Bhiksha!(Actually he just wanted that the Youth should eat in the Mutt and partake of the Prasada!)".The Next day,the lad brought some fruit and offered it to mahaperiyava and had his food in the Mutt.
"What do you want?"Asked Mahaperiyava when the youth took leave."Grant me that this should be my last Birth!",said the Lad."So,be it",Said Mahaperiyava!
Years rolled by and one day suddenly,in the afternoon the Sage asked for some Koorcham(made of darba Grass)and after getting them proceeded to the River;as he took bath,he unfurled one Koorcham after another,7 in all!The attendants did not know the significance of this and who dares to ask the sage what he is doing!
There was an old lady in the Mutt,who used to take liberties and through her the attendants wanted to know why Mahaperiyava had acted in this strange way!The Lady pestered mahaperiyava,and finally he yielded and told her-"You recall that years back,we were camping in Calcutta;remember the lad who supplied the Bilva leaves".
"Yes",said the Lady.
"Well.He passed away today",said Mahaperiyava!(No one had brought this news on the Physical plane!).
Taken aback,the lady asked him,"Then why mahaperiyava had asked for Koorchams".
Pat came the reply,"He had 7 more births to take and all that has now been annulled!"
The Mahaswami had kept his word and made Good what was asked of him by the Lad.
Namaskar.
Rp,
There are thousands of wonderful and moving stories of Kanchi mahAperiyavA-all in tamil!One of the writers that I have profound respect is Sri Ra Ganapathy-the compiler of Deivathin Kural in 8 volumes.
He has written several small books-reminiscences of sri mahAperiyavA.There are simply out of this world.Do you understand Tamil.I can recommend these wonderful Books to you.
Sri Ra Ganapathy's writings on Sri Ramakrishna ,Holy Mother Sri sArada Devi,Swami VivekAnanda,Mira bai,Nama Bodhendra are Great classics and especially the one on SRK and Holy Mother is one of the Best-now published by RK Mutt.
Sri Ra Ganapathy is a great Sadhaka who is a Brahmachari(in every sense of the term).
Coming to sri MahAperiyava,I recall one solitary 1 hour Darshan I had in the presence of Childlike Divinity,that blew away ages of Dross!I knew then what the sages refer to as 'Ganga snAn'(Ganga Bath).
A colossus!
Namaskar.
Ramos,
"I never wanted to be a sage but instead a servant for the sages for ever and ever."
There is no better path than this-this is what the Devotees call as 'adiyArkku adiyane' in Tamil and this translates exactly as what you have posted!
Congratulations.I am happy that your labour of Love-Yoga vasishta in German is going to be published soon.The Gods have been merciful afterall!I know how much Yoga vAsishta is dear to you.
Wish you the very Best.
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian,
"Onion is approved by Sri Bhagavan Himself."
I have mentioned about eating Raw onions.When it is cooked,the pungent content is transformed and partially evaporates as well.
This is something that is based on my own observation and it concurs with the Sastras.It tends to make the consciousness Gross and 'heavy'.
Namaskar.
Hi Ravi,
You are too kind. Yes, I suspect that Swamiji would have known instantly what sort of a person he had in front of him and not offered the tamasic prasad in the first place. Such great saints are beyond the comprehension of puny minds like ours.
Best wishes
Ravi, ...this is what the Devotees call as 'adiyArkku adiyane' in Tamil and this translates exactly as what you have posted!
Dear Ravi, this is astonishing. Thank you.
Dear Subramanian R, the language of the translation is German. Swami Venkatesananda was a spiritual friend of H.H. Sivananda. He lived and worked in Sivanandas ashram (The Divine Life Society, Rishikesh). The story of the publication of this book sounds rather weird. I can write more about it to your mail address, if you like.
Subramanain, Bernard Shaw type Christian marriages work well??
What do you mean?
Ravi,
About chances of Arvind meeting the mightily compassionate Swami Vivekananda:There is a quote by him in the complete works that Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is going to re-incarnate approximately 200 years after death(not sure if it is birth or death).So if we take take death in 1886 he is going to come on to earth again around 2086 AD.With Thakur all his disciples and Swami Vivekananda will come along with him. So Arvind is not entirely out of chance here.He only has to strongly wish for it.It might be just in the next incarnation.
-z
Rp,
Kanchi mahAperiyavA had encyclopaedic knowledge on any subject.Here is an interesting incident of his interaction with one of the Great Stalwarts of carnatic music-ariyakudi Ramajua Iyengar,whose setting of AndAl's Tiruppavai to be sung in various rAgA is considered sancro sanct and perfect.
Here is an excerpt:
Ariyakkudi rendered the song "ShrI subrahmanyAya namasthE" - a rare musical feast. Even without sruti or accompaniments, it still was wholesome. Paramacharya listened to the song with full concentration, eyes closed. Then, "Only because you sang alone (no sruti/accompanists) the song came out with all its beauty. And the words were crystal clear. I say 'thrupthOsmi' (Totally satisfied). Please sing once more - you know why? I will give you the meaning line by line, you stop after every line. Not that you do not know; but let me have the pleasure of dissolving my mind in Sri Dikshitar's lyrical beauty for some more time! More over, others here can also learn the meaning and beauty behind the creations of geniuses."
Ariyakkudi sang once more, this time line-by-line and our Paramacharya gave detailed commentry on the Dikshitar Kriti “Sri Subhramanyaya Namaste”.
Paramacharya further tells Ariyakkudi and the gathering at large, "I'm happy to see that you, coming from a good guru-sishya parampara, are preserving good music. You must also bring up good disciples and keep the tradition going. A Brahmin, having learnt Veda, has a compulsory duty to teach atleast one more person (athyApanam). This can apply to other sastras and arts
too. "One more point about musicians. You should sing the Telugu and Sanskrit kirtanas fully aware of their meaning. It is not fair to say that Tamil songs alone are enough. Great composers in this country have created hundreds of Telugu and Sanskrit songs of much musical and lyrical beauty. If we ignore them, the loss is ours. Do not defend by saying, 'I do not understand them!' - if only we desire, do we not spend time and energy on all sorts of useless things? If musicians dedicate themselves to pure music and proper rendition of words without losing the 'osandha artha visEsham', language can not be a barrier. Now that you are #1 in the music world, do your best towards this. May Subrahmanya's Grace be with you in this endeavor."
-----------------------------------
The commentary that the Sage gave on this masterly composition of muthuswami Dikshitar is available in a book written by Sri Ra Ganapathy.
For the complete article from which i have drawn the excerpt,please visit:
http://avdevantimes.blogspot.com/2009/12/kanchi-mahaperiyavas-exposition-of-sri.html
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Dear Anon.,
Bernard Shaw was a vegetarian, I am told. There are a few Christians who
are vegetarians.
Dear Ravi,
Swami Paramahamsa Yogananda had met
Sri Bhagavan once. There is a photograph of Sri Bhagavan with Yogananda, with later wearing loose
pyjama and a long jubba. He has got a flowing hair.
Dear Clemens Vargas Romos,
Thanks for the information about
your forthcoming book.
Dear Ravi,
There is an interesting anecdote
written by Ra. Ganapati. It appears
that devotees had arranged for a meeting between Sri Bhagavan and Mahaswami of Kanchi in Palakottu, when latter had been touring Tiruvannamalai. But it did not come through, due to reasons not known.
Dear Ravi,
Sri Ra. Ganapati was devoted to both
Sri Bhagavan and Mahaswami of Kanchi. He has written a 2 volume
book titled Sri Ramana MaNam, on Sri
Bhagavan. The book came as a serial article in some magazine and has been collected into a two volume book. This is available in Sri Ramanasramam.
Dear Ravi,
It appears that rumours were spread in Kanchi Math that Sri Bhagavan had
requested to Maha Swami of Kanchi to help Him to rid the sarcoma cancer! Maha Swami had said to those people: This is blashmphemous blabbering of mad people. Simiarly it appears that there were rumors that Maha Swami had prayed to Sri Bhagavan to give him the state of total thoughtless state. Maha Swami also said that is a stupid rumor mongering of useless people!
Dear Ravi,
When Maha Swami was touring the town of Tiruvannamalai, he had discoursed: "Karma Marga is the most important. One should do nitya karmas and naimitta karmas regularly to reach god." The devotees came and told Sri Bhagavan as to how Swami could speak like that. Sri Bhagavan said: "He is a head of a Math. Rituals are part of his duties. If I had been like that, I would also have spoken like that. What is there?" Sri Bhagavan never gets trapped into any controversy.
Dear Ravi,
Once when Kanchi Maha Swami was in
Tiruvannamalai, he was moving on
the Chengam Road, with his cycle rickshaw. He and his devotees stopped a while before Sri Ramanasramam. He was looking into the Asramam from the road. He did not go inside. Nor did Sri Bhagavan come out. All the inmates of Sri Ramanasramam came out to pay respect to Maha Swami.
Suri Nagamma alone sat inside the Hall with Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan asked Suri Nagamma: Why?
You did not go?" Suri Nagamma replied: Despite being a widow,
I am having hairs. Maha Swami does not meet/see such people."
Sri Bhagavan looked at her with all kindness and said: "O, that is alright."
Dear Ravi,
Smt. Kanakammal was another devotee,
who had immense respect for Maha Swami also. She went with her mother to see Maha Swami once. Her mother told Swami: She is bent on
staying in T'malai and is not willing to come home. You have to guide her." Kanakammal was anxious
as to what Maha Swami would say. Maha Swami said: There is no difference between Ramana Swami and me. If she is here or there, it is all the same. Then she asked Kanakammal: Ekanta Vasam? Staying alone? K. replied: Yes. Atma Vicharam? K. said Yes. Swayam bagham? self cooking? K. said Yes. Maha Swami then finally said: Let good things happen to you. K. was greatly relieved. She took kumkum prasadam from Maha Swami, prostrated, and left with her mother.
R.Subramanian,
The incident concerning the Sage of Kanchi and Sri Bhagavan by Sri Ra Ganapathy is an interesting one.
Here is an excerpt:
"Two reports I heard from the servitors of the Maha-Svami relating him to Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi I could myself easily attribute to their creative artistry in elevating their own Master over every other holy man. Yet I wanted to get confirmation from His Holiness himself for certain reasons.
The Maha-Svami, ever bubbling with wit and witticism had a unique way of saying things. He said he did not want to give the same judgment on both reports and so would call one of them as pettal (colloquial for pitatral) and the other as ularal. The fun of it si that both the words mean the same, viz., talking nonsense!
To come to the two reports. One of them was that when the Maha-Svami was circumambulating the Holy Hill during his camp at Tiruvannamalai, Sri Ramana Maharishi purposely came out of his living room in the Ramana-Asrama and walked to a particular spot from where he could see the Maha-Svami at a distance.
Even as I heard it I could write it off, because Maharishi was to me surely one to whom the triad of the seer, seen and sight had dissolved in the oneness of the only Self. (So it was to His Holiness. But he donned the role of the Teacher exemplifying the ideal to the humans, and therefore was ever on the move to see people and holy places.)"
so "pEttal"(Nonsense)and 'uLaral'(blabbering)were the ways MahAperiyava humourously distinguished the rumours!
Here is the complete article,The MahAswami and the Maharshi:
http://www.kamakoti.org/souv/5-58.html
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Thanks for your post. I did not use
the words Pettal and PitaRRal since
some of the foreign commentators would not understand these words. These are typical Thanjavur local langauage! In fact, every Jnani uses the words of his home town or district. Sri Bhagaan uses the word Pyave.. Pyave means slowly, slowly. Chennai people uses medhuva... meaning the same thing. It is a typical Madurai district usage. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar uses this word, though he is a Thanjavurian, when he is in Madurai to cure Pandyan illness! Similarly Sri Bhagavan uses the word kaaichal, for fever. Chennai people uses the Sanskrit jvaram.
Hello.I have started to study Tamil language.Pronunciation is much more difficult than Japanese.Order of words is rather similar to Japanese.I am suprised that there is difference between spoken words and written words in Tamil.
By the way, Bhagavan would recommend vegetable foods as sattve foods.In vegetables ,are there foods which are not regarded as sattve?For example, are chilli, garlic, leak and onion sattve foods? Or should I not be so sensitive to kinds of vegetable?
Dear shiba,
I am quite happy that you have started learning Tamizh. There is
quite a difference between spoken
Tamizh and written Tamizh, particularly poems, but right now,
do not worry about them. As regards sattvic food, amongst the vegetarian food, garlic is not recommended by Sri Bhagavan. However, onion is permitted. I do not understand what you mean by leak. Regarding eggs, both table eggs and eggs that would hatch as chickens - both are not permitted. Milk is permitted. Mushrooms, they say now, do not contain any life. But mushrooms were not much heard those days. So Sri Bhagavan did not say anything about it. Wish you speedy learning of Tamizh with Sri
Bhagavan's grace. Any doubt about grammar, pronounciation etc., you may ask me.
We will soon have a 1000 comments here. A problem with the display of the comment gagdet may occur then.
I recommend David Godman to create a new 'open thread' to avoid this.
Test - my comments are posting, then getting deleted somehow. Is there a reason for this?
Test - my comments are posting, then getting deleted somehow. Is there a reason for this?
I have the same problem. The thread is too big.
Thank you very much for your kind reply, Subramanian.R.
I bought a recipe book about Indian vegetable dishes recently.Garlic is often contained in ingredients of dishes.Is there any substitute for garlic?
By the way, leek is a sort of long green onion.SO, it will be permitted.
I am very glad that I can have a good tamil teacher.
thank you
Dear shiba,
Sustitute regular onions or leek as
you mentioned, in place of garlic.
That should be equally delicious.
Try again:
This may be pointing out the obvious, but all this concern for food, for meat vs. vegetarianism, all springs from identification with the body, and it just reinforces that point of view.
I recall a story of four young seekers visiting Ramanashram and asking Ramana what diet is best for spiritual practice, and his response was to basically ignore the question and tell them to practice self-enquiry. The point being that the body-mind isn't the focus of practice, the self is.
It's not that diet is of zero importance, but it's really of no serious concern. The practice of self-enquiry, will naturally result in some changes in life-habit, including diet if one is sensitive. But most importantly, one should stop putting attention on the body and worrying about what comes of it, and put attention on the self. No diet is going to make one a true sadhaka.
That doesn't mean diet isn't meaningful, or that one shouldn't eat a pure diet. It's just something that has a purely secondary place, and it should come naturally. One will notice in the course of sadhana what foods are detrimental and which are not, and one will choose the latter. Trying to pre-figure this all and then apply the perfect diet from the start is pointless and actually counter to sadhana, as it reinforces identification with the body. That's why Ramana didn't answer those young men's question, I think.
Plenty of mature spiritual practitioners and realizers have eaten meat or drunk alcohol, etc., and some have even eaten garlic and onions (horrors!) Often it's a cultural matter, or a simple matter of climate and availability. (try getting through a Tibetan winter as a vegetarian).
It really doesn't matter, because the Self isn't qualified by the body-mind, or what the body-mind eats. As a practical matter its usually good to eat pure and benign food, but if eating the wrong food takes you off the spiritual path, you weren't on it to begin with.
Bhagavn had told something like this (paraphrased) when someone asked about diet: Sri Adi Sankara had told that food must be taken as medicine to cure the disease called hunger and not for taste purposes. So, one should eat only when hungry and should eat what one gets, without any preferences.
If one is cooking for himslef/herself, don't know what should be cooked. :)
Broken Yogi, 'This may be pointing out the obvious, but all this concern for food, for meat vs. vegetarianism, all springs from identification with the body, and it just reinforces that point of view'.
I agree with BY totally. It would be hard to be vegetarian in Tibet or go through a harsh European winter nibbling greens.
Don't worry about garlic or leeks this is not of the utmost importance!
Nisargadatta was not strictly vegetarian and I'm sure Meister Ekhart was not vegetarian. I'm not sure about Kabir but I'm pretty sure that it was peripheral to his his great understanding.
glow
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