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«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 906 Newer› Newest»When one, with "anubhuti" says anything about the "Truth" it hits the listener like a bullet.
His words have such power. "Veda Vaaku" it can never be wrong!
I am reminded about Abirami Bhattar here.
Sarabhoji came to the temple and asked Abirami Bhattar "what is the thithi today?" - In deep meditation and looking at the Goddess' moon-face, he replied 'today is pournami (poornima) day" whereas it was actually Amavasya Thithi. Enraged with his answer, the King said "if no moon is sighted today - you will be consigned to flames". A huge fire-ball was erected. Abhirami Bhattar sat on a wooden plank above it and started singing hymns towards Goddess. When he finished, Goddess Abirami threw her ear-stud in the space, which got transformed into a full-moon, lighting the world.
Similarly, Nochur is one with such an Anubhuti, what ever method he may say in his pravachanam are "Veda Vaakku"
34. As long as a man is afraid of the nightmare, obligation, so long must he placate it, or else he will not find peace.
35. How can a man stung by that Viper, obligation, ever be happy? Therefore, some men have gone mad, as if some poison had already entered their blood and were torturing their whole being.
36. While others are stupefied by the poison of obligation and unable to discriminate good from bad.
37. Wrongly do they ever engage in work, being deluded; such is the plight of humanity stupefied by the poison of the sense of obligation.
Tripura Rahasya, one of the best advaitic scriptures ever.
i,
"it hits the listener like a bullet"
This is not to pick on you.Why should something hit unless there is a resistance in us somewhere?
Master TGN used to quote Alexander pope:
"Men should be taught as if you taught them not, And things unknown proposed as things forgot."
Yes,I attended a few talks of sri Nochur,and enjoyed his chantings and the pauses of Silence.
Namaskar.
S/Ravi:
One must be very careful while making blanket statements to ensure that Bhagavan is not included. Lest Bhagavan walk away like He did when they said that food will not be served to Paradesi-s at the Ashram.
The Jnana-follower might say 'We are not apart from Bhagavan/Self that He can walk away like that.'
The Bhakti-follower might say 'Oh! Bhagavan has not gone anywhere. He is sitting just outside the Ashram compound. The moment we realise our mistake and beg forgiveness, He would graciously come back.'
It is all a beautiful play. I am now clearly blabbering. I'll get back to being a silent reader. Please continue the discussion.
And, Happy New Year to All.
Ramprax/s,
" Please continue the discussion."
Since Ram has given us permission to continue the discussion-Here is a question to s.
With this self enquiry atleast once in 24 hours,just how much of the self or Self has been enquired into and how much more is left to be enquired.
Why not get onto hourly basis(from Daily)and then onto minute ,then seconds and moment basis?Just when this enquiry will cease?How much more time is required?
All this to end up doing nothing!Why not get onto that job immediately,this very moment!
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
ravi:
hahahaha... nonetheless, let me try:
just how much of the self or Self has been enquired into and how much more is left to be enquired.:
- for both parts, the self only knows (i need not know) :-)
Why not get onto hourly basis(from Daily)and then onto minute ,then seconds and moment basis?:
- yes, would love to be in vichAra on a 'moment' basis; only such an intoxication would make it sAdhana :-)
Just when this enquiry will cease?:
- it will cease with realising the self (it's not some nicey-feely-dreamy thing like most of you folks talk about; it's literally a transforming experience for me (nothing to do with intellectual clarity or emotional excitements - the 'change' has to be permanent with no going back)
How much more time is required?:
- i don't know & i don't care; yet i know i will be 'done' asap :-)
btw, ravi sir - you have said quite a few times that vichAra is not your way, then why bother? :-)
i rarely ever comment on 'bhakti' because that's not my way - simple.
it doesn't make any sense (to me) to admire a dostoevsky or a proust & yet not read their writings :-)
Friends,
Thayumanavar's 'Ananda KaLippu'(Rejoicing in Bliss):
san kara san kara sambho,siva san kara san kara san kara sambho(Refrain)
அருளால் எவையும்பார் என்றான் - அத்தை
அறியாதே சுட்டிஎன் அறிவாலே பார்த்தேன்
இருளான பொருள்கண்ட தல்லால்-கண்ட
என்னையுங் கண்டிலன் என்னேடி தோழி - சங்கர 13.
என்னையுந் தன்னையும் வேறா - உள்ளத்
தெண்ணாத வண்ணம் இரண்டற நிற்கச்
சொன்னது மோஒரு சொல்லே-அந்தச்
சொல்லால் விளைந்த சுகத்தைஎன் சொல்வேன் - சங்கர 14.
விளையுஞ் சிவானந்த பூமி - அந்த
வெட்ட வெளிநண்ணித் துட்ட இருளாங்
களையைக் களைந்துபின் பார்த்தேன் - ஐயன்
களையன்றி வேறொன்றுங் கண்டிலன் தோழி - சங்கர
"See thou through the eyes of Grace", He said;
Knowing not how to do it
I saw through my knowledge, differentiated;
And I saw nothing but darkness then;
Even I, the seer, was not seen to be;
How strange is all this!
O, Maid! (Chorus)san kara san kara sambho!
"Think not 'I' and 'Thou' as Two;
Stand as One in union inextricable"
All these, He said in One Word;
But how shall I describe the felicity
That was of that Word born?
(Chorus) -san kara san kara sambho!
-----------------------------------
Namaskar
Friends,
Just missed the translation of this verse of ThAyumAnavar:
விளையுஞ் சிவானந்த பூமி - அந்த
வெட்ட வெளிநண்ணித் துட்ட இருளாங்
களையைக் களைந்துபின் பார்த்தேன் - ஐயன்
களையன்றி வேறொன்றுங் கண்டிலன் தோழி - சங்கர
The fertile land of Sivananda Bliss
To that Vast Void I went;
There I uprooted the evil weed of dark ignorance
And then I looked round again;
I saw nothing else
But the Lord's beauty
O, Maid! (Chorus)
Namaskar.
Dear friends,
Wanted to share "Janani Navaratna Manjari" and other hymns by Sree Narayana Gurudevan. Poems are in Malayalam.
http://www.muzigle.com/#!album/evergreen-treasure-hymns-of-sree-narayanaguru-1
Meaning of "Janani Navaratna Manjari" (Nine gems on the Mother) below:
From that unitive mind-stuff, all encompassing,
a thousand tri-basic rays (of knowledge-knower-known) come and;
to and anon, self-consciousness gone,
There awakened love of food and such;
Fallen thus into the ocean of need and lost altogether,
Say when, Oh Mother, shall my inner being regain that path of hope To be merged within the domain of pure word import, bereft of all tri-basicprejudice
And, within the core of the radiance outspread of reason pure,
Reabsorbed in communion Cool, ever remain.
This variegated display by maya wrought--
Itself nothing is no other than awareness pure;
Air, stone, sea or fire, and the void too,
Are all but prime awareness alone!
The rightness of such a view, if one should praise,
No scriptural confusion can come;
Rival claims of action shall not vie;
Such goodly gain would suffice itself alone;
O Mother of the wisdom that all seek, easy and exalting at once.
Knowledge that comes but to go again
Has come from times of yore; on each vision such
The limbs and the inner self are swayed:
Filled with varied import and darkened by each,
Contracting, all within the Great Unknown is reabsorbed again!
Even seeing thus, again, and again Wisdom comes not:
The learned man of good deeds is but a bee
Fallen into the lotus core, drinking there the nectar
Of the unlimited experience of bliss supreme.
Thought, applied to waves, reduces them to water;
The snake as rope is known; the pot into clay resolved;
Likewise the world. Only when penetrated by thought
Has anything here reality at all.
Your feet are the root for all this, that I adore.
Bestow on me this boon which you alone can grant;
Become as the Real to me: refuge there is none other
Than you, O Mother of the Royal Yoga Way!
Oh Mother! Who within the encirling veil
Of the prime mind on high, ever dwells,
Whose free dance it is that impels here below
This clamorous medley of water, air and fire
As the world manifest--when all is but name alone;
With that delicate yarn of time and so on,
A fancy vesture overcovers your form
So none do know your true appearance,
Oh one that takes your stand where all the Vedas end!
You became the deer, and the fish too,
The snake, and the heavenly bird likewise,
The firm earth, and the river also, woman as well as man,
Even the world on high and inferno, within your name-form couple,
Assuming varied natures, cognizes here,
As the "I", that too is even you!
O, one of word-content alone, all is comedy indeed!
That wisdom's arrow that can smite my sin
In your flowery feet resides
My love, it is the bowstring, and an iron will the bow;
The ego-sense is the victorious one.
While you the Mother it is who victory gives,
My sin-stained self, thereupon, is transformed
In terms of awareness, with the mightily heavy body too,
The world and all else into awareness leaps!
As existing and then as subsisting ever,
And into a pearl combining both, conscious of all the three,
As the heart, whose seed it is, that the sky and wind
With all the ramified expanse of sense-interests
Such as the eye projecting, and even as the eater of food
In glory abides, such are you,
O Mother, most high, unattainable even to psychic powers rare.
The earth and other elements here,
No basis they have, semblance only,
Specific expressions in awareness merely;
Whatever reality they have in this world
Is by you conferred alone!
In that exalted region where tongue or taste
Have no place, is where your glory abides.
Who is there to know your greatness, O Mother?
Words are weak, even for praising you, alas!
- Sree Narayana Guru
Dear Ravi,
When the beliefs that one holds onto is actually found not to exist, then the truth hits one like a bullet. that was a simple poetic expression.
Even for that matter, Bhagavan had fears of Death when he was 16 years old in Madurai, in those 15 minutes of Death experience, Bhagavan found that there is no Death really for the Self.
In this way, any statement of truth, hits the listener like a bullet killing the false-I, or belief, which is in reality not existent at all. what remains all through is only the pure Self, who is a witness and at the same time not even a witness to all these!
It hits because, there is resistance. Every person who is after truth or who is in spiritual quest, does have resistance, and the Grace of Guru only removes (does not remove in reality) the resistance for there is nothing to resist.
Krishna here:
Happy New Year 2011 to all devotees.
I am very happy that we all children of Bhagavan are discussing various aspects of the Divine without any ego or anger towards others, we differ in the views only to re-enforce one or other aspect of Bhagavan teachings.
I pray the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan Ramana Maharishee that all bloggers of David Godman blog site may fill themselves with peace and bliss and have all material prosperity, their distress being destroyed and enable them to focus on sadhana more and more.
In this new year 2011 I beg all the devotees to offer a nama bhiksha of one time "arunachala shiva" daily keeping in mind the plight of the cows in slaughterhouse and praying earnestly to Arunachala to stop the cow slaughter. One time a day, one nama a day with full devotion and prayer for the innocent cows.
Humbly
Krishna
Actually I understand what 'i' meant. The sages words have such impact and authority that it penetrates the foolish resistance and illusion of the everyday mind. Thats the way I read it.
glow
Dear Krishna, I am able to meet your heart about the Cow slaughter and I totally understand your prayers and my earnest prayers are definitely there but at the same time, I would also like to share my thoughts.
I am reminded about a small incident right into midnight at Ramanashramam, when Bhagavan got up from his bed and came out after hearing a dog bark. He came out and called his attendant to bring some food for the Dog and he went on to say that Some Siddhar has come in the form of a Dog and was very hungry and the Dog was fed with enough food and the Dog stopped barking and went away, that Dog was not seen again. The following day, some devotee was asking Bhagavan about the world, in the times of War, and manrourishmente etc... when people are engaged in battle and the likes what can one do to bring such institutions to help people and nature. Bhagavan said, All those institutions etc will come automatically if you feed one Siddhar who come very hunger after roaming for long time.
Similarly, Krishna, each of us doing our bit our end, showing sympathy to each living being at our homes would bring up the stopping of violence against Cows. Not only Cows even other animals as well.
For instance, I am sharing this not to boast myself but I do not use the Chemicals like "HIT" or "Baygon" etc.. to drive cockroaches, instead, when I spot a cockroach, I simply pick it up gently in a paper or a cloth and take it out of my house and put it into the path hole, in its place. such acts will bring about the change you desire.
Similalry, if stritct cleanliness is maintained in our house, mosquitoes would not come to bother us.
Every living being has its place, its only when we begun to occupy places as our own we create ecological imbalances and such incidents like Cow slaughter take place.
Another thing that troubles me is the Street Dogs, people in the locality misbehave with the Dogs, and some stray incidents of dog biting occur, and people complain and give electric shock and kill the animal. This happens because, the Dogs are scared of humans, especially while driving two wheelers, many people have hit the dogs and the dog gets hurt and inturn resorts to biting people and etc...
We have to learn to be more and more sensitive to our own environment along with all other living beings.
Dear Krishna, I am able to meet your heart about the Cow slaughter and I totally understand your prayers and my earnest prayers are definitely there but at the same time, I would also like to share my thoughts.
I am reminded about a small incident right into midnight at Ramanashramam, when Bhagavan got up from his bed and came out after hearing a dog bark. He came out and called his attendant to bring some food for the Dog and he went on to say that Some Siddhar has come in the form of a Dog and was very hungry and the Dog was fed with enough food and the Dog stopped barking and went away, that Dog was not seen again. The following day, some devotee was asking Bhagavan about the world, in the times of War, and manrourishmente etc... when people are engaged in battle and the likes what can one do to bring such institutions to help people and nature. Bhagavan said, All those institutions etc will come automatically if you feed one Siddhar who come very hunger after roaming for long time.
Similarly, Krishna, each of us doing our bit our end, showing sympathy to each living being at our homes would bring up the stopping of violence against Cows. Not only Cows even other animals as well.
For instance, I am sharing this not to boast myself but I do not use the Chemicals like "HIT" or "Baygon" etc.. to drive cockroaches, instead, when I spot a cockroach, I simply pick it up gently in a paper or a cloth and take it out of my house and put it into the path hole, in its place. such acts will bring about the change you desire.
Similalry, if stritct cleanliness is maintained in our house, mosquitoes would not come to bother us.
Every living being has its place, its only when we begun to occupy places as our own we create ecological imbalances and such incidents like Cow slaughter take place.
Another thing that troubles me is the Street Dogs, people in the locality misbehave with the Dogs, and some stray incidents of dog biting occur, and people complain and give electric shock and kill the animal. This happens because, the Dogs are scared of humans, especially while driving two wheelers, many people have hit the dogs and the dog gets hurt and inturn resorts to biting people and etc...
We have to learn to be more and more sensitive to our own environment along with all other living beings.
Dear friends,
Why should it hit like a bullet?
Is there any resistance? Some one
asked. Yes. There is resistance,
as Tayumanavar said, it is KaLai,
weeds. The weeds [the mind/ego]
are the resistance. If the guru's
bullet like gaze or word hits you,
then the weeds are burnt. There is
nothing then, but Sivananda Bhoomi.
The vast expanse of Sivam, the
Consciousness, the Self, the Paraparam, alone is there. It is
Sivam, Anandam, Existence-Bliss.
Tayumanavar says in some other verse, Puzhuthiyai villakinen,
Poozhani kidaithathu... I removed the dust, Puzhuthi, then Poozhani, Bhoozhanam or Poornam, the Whole, the Self, I got.
Friends,
Let us explore what it means to 'get hit'.Let us say that we imagined ourselves as a Beggar and someone established for us that we are in fact heir to Riches and need not beg and we realize the Truth and live upto that.
Let us also consider the obverse,that we imagined ourselves as Rich and someone established that we are a pauper and henceforth we have no option but to beg.
Now in both the cases ,we have to drop our 'beliefs' and face Reality.
Now,When do we get 'Hit'?
-----------------------------------
Now we may say two things:
1.That the above is a mundane example and obviously the one who finds himself 'rich' eventually,does not 'get hit'
2.In some cases the above person may 'get hit' in a positive sense,and in rarer case,may even lose his mind.
Friends,'getting hit' is not the same as understanding.If this were so,so many of UG followers claimed that they were 'hit' and they do not seem to be any the better for having got 'hit',like our good friend Follow the Rabbit mentioned about Santa.
-----------------------------------
Just give it a thought;next time when you 'get hit' see if there is the positive understanding as well.
Also see if we can keep ourselves open and receptive-whether there is a need to 'get hit'.
In one of the talks that I attended Sri Nochur mentioned about taking 'Notes' and listening with the 'mind'.He brought in the example of how Ishan(he did not mention the name)used to come to dakshineswar after a Hard day's work in the Office.Sri Ramakrishna used to offer him a mat and Ishan used to go to sleep soon after.The Master used to wake him late in the evening,and Ishan would return Home!This was his sadhana!
Likewise Nochur said,that it is enough to be just present and simply listen without 'trying' to understand what is said.The message will infiltrate into the listener(No resistance!)
-----------------------------------
Friends,this is not to belittle anyone,but is shared with a view to explore these commonly held views.I do understand that there is a need for the 'Shock' element,just like poison also in small doses may be necessary as a medicine.
Namaskar.
Friends,
Here is a wonderful excerpt from 'Guru Ramana' that points out how the Transformation(s!)is wrought:
EXPECTATION
Days melted into weeks, and weeks into months and
the foreigner impatiently awaited the Great Experience: each
day was the day, and each moment the moment. The Indian
is never in a hurry: he knows his work well, and, looking
wistfully ahead, continues his practice, full of unshakeable
confidence. But the foreigner, being used to work on a
timetable, fixes hour and date, as if for an interview. As the
clock strikes, he buckles on his belt, sits stiff, shuts his eyes,
and waits for the interview. The clock strikes again, he opens
his eyes, unbelts himself, and rises, postponing his hope to
the evening or the next morning, and so on and on he goes.(Cohen seems to be qualifying s' stipulations,but alas is not around to post!so,here I am playing the proxy for him.s, I hope Proxy is allowed!:))) )
When many months thus rolled by and nothing
startling happened, he cried with all the fervour of his soul:
“How long, O Lord, how long?” But lo! what had happened
to him! He looked back at his old self and looked at the
present one – what a change, Good God! And he wondered
what could have happened in six short months. Then the
Great Secret dawned on him – the secret influence of the
Divine Man in whose radiant ocean he had been daily
bathing: the interview, after all, did take place, although
the foreigner was not aware of it."
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Friends,
Sorry,it was not Ishan that sri Nochur referred to, but Adhar who used to sleep in Sri Ramakrishna's presence!Here is the excerpt from the Gospel of sri Ramakrishna:
Saturday, December 6, 1884
Adhar
ADHAR, A GREAT DEVOTEE of Sri Ramakrishna, lived in Sobha bazar in the northern
section of Calcutta. Almost every day, after finishing his hard work at the office and
returning home in the late afternoon, he paid Sri Ramakrishna a visit. From his home in
Calcutta he would go to Dakshineswar in a hired carriage. His sole delight was to visit the
Master. But he would hear very little of what Sri Ramakrishna said; for, after saluting the
Master and visiting the temples, he would lie down, at the Master's request, on a mat
spread on the floor and would soon fall asleep. At nine or ten o'clock he would be
awakened to return home. However, he considered himself blessed to be able to visit the
God-man of Dakshineswar."
-----------------------------------
The important thing that needs to be noted is that sleeping hours as well can be used for sadhana.It is not as if the Waking,Dream and sleep states are well defined compartments,a Degree of Sleep and dream prevail in the waking period,and wakefulness and Sleep prevail in the Dreams,and wakefulness and Dreaming prevail in Sleep as well.
Namaskar.
A ful understanding is certainly like a 'shot'. This means that it is never a product of the conceptualizing mind - it is forceful for the mind. You may praktice vairagya and discrimation but you cannot give yourself the fruit of it. The sages say that the knowledge of the self or brahman is not the inevitable and predictable result of any practice whichever it may be.
From Tales and Parables of Sri Ramakrishna
Once a man entered a wood and saw a small animal on a
tree. He came back and told another man that he has seen
a creature of a beautiful red colour on a certain tree.
The second man replied : "When I went into the wood , I
also saw that animal. But why do you call it red ? It
is green." Another man who was present contradicted them
both and insisted that it was yellow. Presently others
arrived and contended that it was grey, violet, blue
and so forth and so on. At last they started quarrelling
among themselves. To settle the dispute they all went
to the tree. They saw a man sitting under it.
On being asked , he replied :"Yes , I live under this
tree and I know the animal very well. All your
descriptions are true. Sometimes it appears red ,
sometimes yellow , and at other times blue , grey and
so forth. It is a chameleon. And sometimes it has no
colour at all. Now it has a colour , and now it has
none."
In like manner , one who constantly thinks of God can
know His real nature; he alone knows that God reveals
Himself to seekers in various forms and aspects. God
has attributes; then again He has none. Only the man
who lives under the tree knows that the chameleon can
appear in various colours , and he knows further that
God at times has no colour at all.
Beliefs hypnotize us...
Words hypnotize us...
Thoughts hypnotize us...
but what is beyond beliefs, beyond words, beyond thoughts?
Nisargadatta
Dear Ravi,
I do not understand from your post
whether the example of bullet hit
given by me is supported or not.
Why the mind/ego should be hit by the gaze or touch of the Guru? Because the mind/ego does not leave the hold on Jiva. There is a story. One man was tied with a monkey in his neck. The monkey was troubling him. One doctor said: I shall sedate the monkey, so that it will not trouble you with its pricks on your chest. The man was not still satisfied and the trouble continued. Another doctor said: Don't worry. I shall sedate you, so that you may not 'feel' the pricks of the monkey. Even after this treatment, the man was not cured. Finally one doctor came and told him: I shall solve the problem. He took a sharp knife and cut the knot. The monkey ran away. This is severing of chit-jada granthi. The man was freed. To cut the knot is Guru's job. The man still had some problem. What to do now? He is so much used to the monkey [like us]. The same doctor said: I shall paint a monkey picture on your chest. You may become peaceful. Because the monkey in the picture will not prick you. The man now got finally satisfied. Like this, some of us are wanting an imaginary monkey [there is no such thing as mind]. Still it should be there. Because we are not able to visualize that there could be state that monkey/mind is not there. Sri Bhagavan said: Where is the mind? Show me. There are only thoughts. Mind and thoughts are real monkeys. Simple thoughtless mind is imaginary monkey.
Hi Subramaniam,
That’s a great example.
In my humble opinion, but, upto the point that the rope (knot) is cut. The monkey runs away, i.e. the mind is gone. Thereafter, once there is no mind, where is there any possibility of any thought such as, “I am missing the monkey (mind), so an imaginary monkey may be painted on my chest”?
Once the “chit-jada-granthi” is cut, there should not even be “simple thoughtless mind” left. The others (actually we cannot say for sure whether there will be “others” or not, but leave that be for now), will posit a mind on you, because your body will be seen by them as carrying out the day to day activities of life. But to “you”, to “yourself”, there will be no body, no day to day activities, no mind, no world, no “you” even. And no doctor at all to paint any imaginary monkey on your chest as well. Otherwise, it can be accepted that “simple thoughtless mind” is an “imaginary monkey”, only if it too is built into the story somehow before the knot is cut. Not after.
One last word on Sri Bhagavan saying, “where is the mind? Show me.”
It is an indisputable fact that in our present situation in the world, our minds exist. This is clearly experienced by each and every one of us. So, in my humble opinion, Sri Bhagavan is NOT saying that in our present state, our mind is already non-existent. But that, if you search for the mind, and dig deep within, you will find that you are unable to catch the mind; it approaches non-existence as you search for it deeper and deeper within. So, in effect, Bhagavan’s statement is an invitation to dive within and to search for the mind. And thus begin the vichara-quest that will lead to Liberation. It is only on searching that the mind is found not to exist, but otherwise, it does!
Best wishes
R.subramanian,
I have talked about receptivity and openness-if it is there then one need not 'get hit'.I also have mentioned how 'getting hit' (getting rid of 'beliefs') does not necessarily lead to Wisdom,Freedom.
Everyday at night we leave the world and the Body consciousness behind when we enter the land of Nod and look forward to a good night's sleep.This clearly proves that dropping the 'I' need not be a frightening experience as we are imagining.Sometime back,I have posted how papaji had this sort of an anticlimactic drop out.
I have heard Sri Annamalai Swami also mention that one can ease into this natural state.
-----------------------------------
Also the mind being energy cannot be destroyed,in the sense that we understand the word 'destruction'.
namaskar.
Simple thoughtless mind is imaginary monkey??
Simply don't agree with above statement!
Friends,
An Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"A man verily becomes liberated in life if he feels: 'God is the Doer. He alone
is doing everything. I am doing nothing.' Man's sufferings and worries spring only from
his persistent thought that he is the doer."
This is what ThAyumanavar says in his paripooranAnandam:
சந்ததமும் எனதுசெயல் நினதுசெயல் யானெனுந்
தன்மைநினை யன்றியில்லாத்
தன்மையால் வேறலேன்
Forever my deed is your deed
The nature of me(self)being not apart Thee,am no Different(than thee)
-----------------------------------
Self Enquiry or Self surrender has to culminate into the diving into this sea of consciousness.
The Follower of the path of Knowledge who distrusts emotions and feelings takes the help of the Intellect(as a spring board or beginning) to trace the origin of 'I' back to the source,Self.
The Follower of the Path of devotion uses the power of emotions and Feelings,knowing instinctively that if smoke is there,Fire has to be there-instead of 'i',he feels his way through the possessive sense 'mine' into posessing the source of 'mine' ness-Love,that is God.
-----------------------------------
All thoughts like whether the world is real,Whether mind is real,Whether the Ego has to die are all like 'counting the mangoes' as Sri Ramakrishna used to say.
Namaskar.
It's nice to see the Open Thread so active of late. I apologise for my own lack of contributions in recent times. I was down with the flu for a while and had a seemingly endless stream of visitors, guests and relatives to deal with.
Yesterday someone emailed me an entertaining story that, for me, wonderfully illustrates Bhagavan's thesis that the mind persists simply because we fail to make a proper enquiry into its true nature. Bhagavan sometimes gave the example of a man who turns up at a wedding and is allowed to help himself to food and drink simply because each of the two parties (bride and groom) assume he is a member of the other party. However, when enquiries are made into his true status, he has to disappear. The point of the story is that when the true identity of the mind is sought through enquiry, its false associations are discovered and it has to depart.
The story I was sent concerned the car-park attendant at the Bristol Zoo in the UK. Every day since the mid-1980s he turned up for work and collected an average of $800 a day, selling tickets and allocating space in the zoo car park. When he mysteriously disappeared, enquiries were initiated. For all those years the Bristol City Council had assumed that he was a zoo employee, while the zoo had assumed he was working for the city council. The truth emerged that he worked for neither. He had just turned up in the car park with a ticketing machine, sold tickets and pocketed the money himself. It is estimated that he collected $7 million over his twenty-five year career there. The assumption that he worked for the other party was so pervasive, no one had ever bothered to investigate him. Despite turning up seven days a week for twenty-five years, the council and the zoo didn't even have a record of what his name was. He has now disappeared with his retirement fund, and no one knows how to trace him.
Bhagavan sometimes gave the example of a man who turns up at a wedding...
Talks, 19th January, 1939
Again, in a Hindu marriage function, the feasts continue five or six days. A stranger was mistaken for the best man by the bride’s party and they therefore treated him with special regard. Seeing him treated with special regard by the bride’s party, the bridegroom’s party considered him to be some man of importance related to the bride’s party and therefore they too showed him special respect. The stranger had altogether a happy time of it. He was also all along aware of the real situation. On one occasion the groom’s party wanted to refer to him on some point. They asked for him. He scented trouble and made himself scarce. So it is with the ego. If looked for, it disappears. If not, it continues to give trouble.
Dear Ravi and others,
Keeping a monkey picture - an extension of the story after the
chit jada granthi - is only illustrate that many people are afraid to visualize a thoughtless mind. How to live without mind?
They seem to think that mindless state is a state of psychosis. It is not so. Psychosis is the state of fractured mind. Whereas the mindless bliss is sublime. Those who do not like the last portion of the story may please leave it.
that many people are afraid to visualize a thoughtless mind. How to live without mind?
Yes, it's a frequent question and itself a question of the mind.
Nevertheless there is a difficult question behind that to answer. When thoughts no longer come from the mind – from where do they come then and how to discriminate between „good“ and „bad“ actions? The problem here of course is what is called non volitional action.
David,
Interesting and instructive Story.
R.Subramanaian,
As I have said,spiritual truths are not easy to express.I have not commented on the Monkey story.I understand that what you have been trying to say is that although it is easy to get rid off the Gross elements,in a subtle way the essence is retained, condoned and allowed to continue.Yes,this is true and the Dyer and the tub parable of Sri Ramakrishna addresses it in the splendid way:
"A man had a tub of dye. Such was its wonderful property that people could dye their
clothes any colour they wanted by merely dipping them in it. A clever man said to the
owner of the tub, 'Dye my cloth the colour of your dye-stuff."
What Sri Ramakrishna is saying is that the mind can be dyed in whatever color we want.Hence the most appropriate and intelligent thing to do is to drop our insistence and preference and allow God to Dye it.The Mind then 'becomes' God or Self.
This is what I have meant by being receptive and open-not insisting that it should be this way or that way,comparing it with what one has read in this or that book.This would allow the Truth in what is said to infiltrate us.
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Dear Clemens,
Yes. Non volitional action and non volitional thought is the correct
expression. There is, as Sri Bhagavan said, there is no doership and enjoyership. It is like walking on a road, where one does not make every step thinking that I should take a step. I am of the view, the wonderful writings and poems of great Jivan Muktas came on their own. They were "inspired" by the Self within. When someone asked Sri Bhagavan: "How did you write Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai?", He said: "I did not write anything with a plan. It all came on their own." When priests of Chidambaram and the King Anabhaya Chozha asked
Saint Manikkavachagar: "Please
tell us the meaning of these poems,
Tiruvachakam," the Saint replied:
"What meaning? The meaning is He," he looked at Nataraja and then merged as a flame with Siva.
"IthaRku porUl ithuve". "It is the meaning of It."
Dear Ravi,
Yes. As Thaymanavar correctly said: For a Jivan Mukta every deed is His deed. Even for sadhakas such a 'feeling' paves way for surrendering the ego. Saint Manikkavachagar says in Verse 10 of Tiruvembavai: " Pathaalam Ezhinum keezh soR kazhivu
padamalar; Podar punai mudiyum ellap poruL mudive". 'Your flower like feet which are there even beyond the seven nether worlds, at a depth beyond words and speech. Your flower wearing crown is above
all the meanings of these words.'
It is wordless, speechless silence,
so dense a silence that one cannot even cut it with a sword.
Subramanian, R.
Wei Wu Wei (Terence Gray) deals with volitional and non volitional action in Open Secret (Chapter 3). He influenced Ramesh Balsekar and others.
... it is astonishing that we find no german translation of Sankaras Upadesha Sahasri (except of my own) at the german bookmarket. This book is absolutely essential. The publisher of the german edition (6 volumes) of Philokalia said: You cannot earn money with serious literature.
Hi David, folks
Thanks for sharing the marvellous story.
In India, actually, we could write a book on parking lot attendants, and especially concerning temples in the South. Even in the most obscure, desolate interiors, the moment you park outside a temple, a smiling fellow will emerge from nowhere to hand you a scrumped up, torn piece of parchment, sometimes hand-written in Tamil, which he will claim is a “Municipality” parking ticket. And once you hand him his Rs. 10/- or Rs. 20/- he will disappear as mysteriously as the Bristol zoo fella!
Only once I had the gall to refuse such a chap. In fact, I told him his ticket was a sham and he himself needed to visit a few temples to wash off his grave and multiple sins in fleecing devotees! And horror of horrors, when I came back I found a couple of tyres deflated even tho’ the driver (who came with the hired car) was hanging about, and who claimed that he had gone for a coffee when, obviously, the angry Gods decided to teach me a lesson by having the tyres lose air suddenly on their own when his back was turned! A lesson hard learned indeed because I boiled in the sun for 3 hours and spent many hundreds of rupees thereafter to have the tyres taken down and carted to a mechanic miles away and re-inflated.
Best wishes
Dear arvind,
A similar incident happened when
I and my wife had been to Tiruvannamalai. In one of our trips, when we went to Arunachaleswara Temple, the crowd even for a 'special ticket' was so long and we were wondering what to do? Suddenly a 20 year old lad appeared and said that he would take us very close to the sanctum, if we paid Rs 100 for two of us, apart from special ticket. The money was paid, since I was restless [it is one of my minor
sins jumping the Q], and no doubt
he took us very close to Lingam and we had darshan. Then we came to know that this man had been arranged by the priests themselves with a cut for them. Similarly,
on another occasion an MLA family
came right royally from the wrong side keeping us waiting for long. When I asked the priest, he said: If you are an MLA and his close relative, bring a letter, we shall do the same for you. What to do?
salutations to all:
subramanian/arvind/others:
yes, yes, we are the best of MLAs, isn't it? "மெய்ப்பொருளுக்கடியேன்" (meypporuLukkadiyEn - literally 'slaves of truth') :-)))
it's thus for us there is absolutely no problem at aruNAchalA - aNNAmalaiyAr freely gives us an abundant, limitless, privileged viewership at all times & at all climes... hahahaha
All,
wish you guya a very happy new year.
Subramanian R.,
Apropos to Sri Nochur Venkataraman's discourse in B'lore, what language was the discourse in? I am not at all famliliar with Tamil. I have heard a lot abt the gud quality of his speechec. Is there anyway to know his programmes before hand? I would like to hear it, if he gives a talk in English on Ulladu Narpadu. I have seen only Tamil talks(CDs) in Ashram stall.
David and Friends,
Happy New Year and Best Wishes.
The Bristol Zoo story is a hoax widely circulated on email by unsuspecting readers.
http://www.bristolzoo.org.uk/about/news/News1935
-z
Maneesha,
You may like to download Sri Nochur's Talks in English.Please visit:
http://www.mediafire.com/?qmru2o8im7477i8(mp3 - Atma Vidya)
http://www.mediafire.com/?hd10u1d2dwnp4nw(mp3 - Ramana Lahari)
Sri Nochur's mother tongue is Malayalam and he is a Sanskrit scholar(Sanskrit college-Chennai).To his credit he has a good cpommand over Tamil as well to be able to Recite Sri bhagavan's works and bring out their essence.
Truly a great soul.
I will recommend that you attend his talks irrespective of what language he may choose to talk.You can always enjoy his chanting and pauses.
Namaskar.
Maneesha/Friends,
You may see a small video clip of Sri Nochur Venkataraman's chanting(He does this at the beginning of each talk)here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAsu5STXA6Y
Namaskar.
Subramnian,
Don’t get me started on Indian Temples and Fraud. Hmmm you paid a bribe to jump the queue to see Lord Arunachala; it is not a small sin:) I did once in the past(not bribe but recommendation) but I ‘ve decided never to do it again. Today all major Indian temples are fully drowned in unthinkable levels of corruption. When I visited Tiruvannamalai Arunachala Temple the priest demanded quite forcefully in broken English; ‘you put Dakshina’ even before I took the Arathi. I went to another temple in Andhra where the priest muttered all the possible doshas in Astrology and chanted me relief and started demanding money. In temples like Tirupathi and Kalahasti corruption is endless and quite daring and open.In Kalahasti the priest himself right before the main Lingam was collecting money quite openly and fearlessly to allow extra minutes of Darshan. When it comes to corruption Kalahasti temple is known to touch the worst levels.The scams in Tirupathi are endless.It has become so famous and is receiving donations in very big amounts. All the worst kind of billionaires are donating multiple crores of money and gold in excess of thousand kgs.They make so much corrupt money; sorry all corrupt money; they fear so much of paap that they think if they give a commission to God out of that illegal cull they will get spared.The priests are part of most of the scams.Only Chrstian Evangelism in India can match the lowest levels of our Temples. I have a friend here who was is in that business and tells me about the fake healing sessions in front of thousands of poor and unsuspecting audiences and the Evangelists travelling in helicopters. Religion is such a profitable business in India and in that business it is easy to fake it.The Teples today are receiving historically huge amounts of donations.It is best to donate the same amout to your chosen cause or to the poor in your local area.
As with every other field in India there is that small percentage of purity but I suspect that is only 4 or 5 in a hundred in priestcraft.As with everything else in India the blame lies squarely on us.Unless we oraganize ourselves and fight for our rights and safeguard them we will always remain in this vortex.
-z
salutations to all:
anonymous(z.):
1. i rarely go to any temples, so can't speak about them in general. the temple at aruNAchalA [the only temple for me is the hill though :-)] is one of the very few i visit, and i think it's very much possible to go to this temple & have a wonderful view of the sanctum without any problems at all. have been there quite a few times, and have never faced any trouble from any priest (i strictly stand only in the dharmadarsanam, the free general queue, and do not perform any archana etc.)
2. why can't all the problems we see/feel (includes corruption) be nothing more than a fine reflection of what's 'within' us? the more the world outside troubles us, so much perhaps is the conflict inside :-) am not a bhakta, but this much i know pretty well that if one is a true bhakta, then but for the lord whom you have gone to visit nothing whatsoever will be an issue (yes, that one is unable to talk or laugh or play or dance with the lord is "the" only issue, an absolutely serious issue indeed!) :-)))
Friends,
I totally agree with s.One of the best temples is the Marundeeswarar temple in ThiruvAnmiyur in chennai.Actually I prefer this to the Arunacahaeswarar temple in Tiruvannamalai,although this may be one eighth in size.In addition to the serenity,one of the features is that it draws sincere Devotees, one may be fortunate to listen to the joyous outpourings of Tevaram and other Hymns from these incognito Bhaktas,including children.The Priests also maintain a low profile.
The temple has been blessed by the visits of jnana sambandar,appar and Arunagirinathar.The Lord is called Marundeeswarar(Lord of Medicine) and The Divine Mother is the incomparable Tripurasundari.
-----------------------------------
It is important when one enters the temple to tune oneself to the Holy vibrations that permeate the place;Great souls have visited that place.No need to be in a hurry to rush to the sanctum sanctorum-the longer it takes to reach there,the better it is for one can savour every moment of the stay.This ambience cannot be corrupted.Why look at the priests and the administration?Why participate in what is going on around?'Attend to what you came'.
Namaskar.
Hi S,
On why God is mute to all that is happening around him; there is a beautiful answer given by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa when there was a theft in his temple.
On why I can't see the problem outside as inside myself:yes I agree that the situations I find in my life reflects my inner vaasanaas.So to deny the world's problems is to deny my vaasanaas.My vaasanaas will not go away on their own if I sit tight.So it is natural that I release my vaasaanas by working out or trying to work out the problems in the outer world.The more advanced a seeker the less vaasanaas meaning the less problems he sees in the world.But he too somehow did not magically get there.He too in his previous lives has worked his way up by working with the world.
So it is natural that an Advanced seeker sees less problems with the world and I see more.I cannot jump the cylcle by trying to ape the advanced seeker but may actually end up with double the trouble.How do I know:because I see problems in my society.On the lighter side I am not a bit of a doer; I talk out my problems in the head:)
-z
z/friends,
What is this 'vasana' business!What is a 'Vasana'?Eating 'garlic'(Tamasic acts) daily and burping something that smells of 'Garlic' is not working out vasanas.One has to stop eating 'garlic' and despite that as part of the cleansing,a faint smell of 'Garlic' that goes along with the waste is what may be called working out of 'vasana'.Just giving vent to one's propensities and calling it as a working out of the 'vasana' is to be caught up in a mischief of one's making.This is adding to 'Poor Karma' and not working out of any of the traces of 'Vasana'.Vasana is something that rises up which is not ordinarily part of one's consciousness,and which one hardly suspected as having existed in one's Nature.It catches us by surprise when it rises , one wonders how such a thing existed in one.
-----------------------------------
z,you have given a wonderful example of Sri Ramakrishna scolding mathur babu.Here is what the Master says:
""Once a thief stole the jewels from the images in the temple of Radhakanta. Mathur Babu
entered the temple and said to the Deity: 'What a shame, O God! You couldn't save Your
own ornaments.' 'The idea!' I said to Mathur. 'Does He who has Lakshmi for His handmaid
and attendant ever lack any splendour? Those jewels may be precious to you, but to God
they are no better than lumps of clay. Shame on you! You shouldn't have spoken so
meanly. 'What riches can you give to God to magnify His glory?'"
Namaskar.
Friends,
Here is one story very dear to me:
"Girish Ghosh was a well-known dramatist-actor-poet of Bengal. His play on Sri Chaitanya stirred Calcutta and a large area of Bengal. One day, Girish was very happy to welcome Sri Ramakrishna at his theatre. Fully conscious of Sri Ramakrishna's divinity, he called all the actors and actresses to come to Sri Ramakrishna and take his blessings. On his call, everyone assembled there; the male actors came and took the dust of his feet. Being assured by Girish's call, the prostitutes who were actresses in his theatre, came in a group. There were sixteen of them, all in their full youth, nicely dressed. Seeing them Sri Ramakrishna was seized with a divine mood and started singing with his sweet voice a song about Mother Kali. Listening to his song, all those women were spell bound. One of them, Binodini by name, dropped unconscious on the ground under Sri Ramakrishna's feet and a divine lustre began to glow on her face. Sri Ramakrishna blessed them all."
The story goes that Sri Ramakrishna saluted Binodini as 'Sri Chaitanya'(Binodini has played the Role of Sri Chaitanya in that play);When Binodini said 'Sir,We are fallen women',the Master said 'No,you are Chaitanya'.This wrought a transformation and Binodini became a Sadhwi,leaving behind her profession.
Such is the power of Mahatmas,who see into the core reality behind the appearances.
-----------------------------------
I came across the story of the wonderful life of Sri Ramakrishna in pictorial form here,called Ramakrishna Darashanam:
http://www.rkmrajkot.org/exh_rkdarshanam.php
Namaskar.
Dear S.,
Wonderful interpretation of the MLA.
Thanks. Whenever I visit T'malai,
I choose a Thursday or Wednesday
to see Arunachaleswara and Apeetakunchambal. It is midweek.
The crowds are normally less. However, MLAs can come at anytime.
Be an MLA and beware of MLAs.
Dear Maneesha,
Brahmasri Nochur Venkataraman gives
discourses in Tamizh or Malayalam,
freely mixed with innumerable Sanskrit verses from scriptures.
There is one discourse in English,
titled Sri Ramananubhavam, in Bangalore Ramana Centre. This CD
is available. You may write to
Ramana Maharshi Centre, Post Office
Road, Hebbal, Bangalore. It will cost Rs 150 plus courier charges.
Dear S., Anon.,
Yes. I agree. There are bribe takers because there are bribe givers. One can definitely overcome
this, while visiting Temples, provided one has got enormous patience, and strong legs to stand for long hours. In temples crowded
ever, like Tirupati, it is a common sight. One cannot escape. One can
wait for hours and see the Lord, under free darshan. Nowadays, I am told that for devotees who climb the hill by foot, they give a card
at the end of the climbing route with which one can have free darshan in half an hour in Tirupati. This is a good practice. Nevertheless, it needs strong legs and patience for climbing the hill.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Small temples at the outskirts
of cities or in villages are less crowded and you are able to get good darshan as also the good disposition
of priests. For example, in the same T'malai, in Gurumurtham and Isanya Jnana Desikar Math, you can have darshan of Lingam in a calm atmosphere. In fact, in Gurumurtam,
one has to ask a neighbouring house people, for keys to open the temple They have oil pouches. You can pay for the oil pouches and light a lamp. There is no deepam at all otherwise.
We suffer because of attachment and the family is one of the strongest attachments of all. "Bhagavan said, "Why don't you take my advice? What is there in the family life. See, your father Dandapani Swami has ten children, but they are not helping him. What is the use? I am always here with you. Don't worry".
salutations to all:
subramanian/ravi & others:
regarding long queues & petty bribes - have a suggestion (from me of course! hahahaha): let our vichAra(or whatever you may like to call) be such that aruNAchalA comes and waits for an audience!!! :-)))
aruNAchalA: can i enter?
me: sure, but give me a bribe for this privilege
aruNAchalA: ok, what bribe should i offer?
me: on second thought, would want not one, but twin bribes!
aruNAchalA: hmmm, please say it; in any case, i don't think i have any option but to give!
me: grant me jnAna, bestow me bhakti; and let me 'warn' you, they better be in 'full' - no dilutions, no compromises, no negotiations... agree?
hahahahaha...what say, folks? that's my attitude towards our most beloved one. what's yours? :-)))
s,
Hope your 'Vichara' is not like our court 'enquiry' with Frequent 'vAidAs'(adjournments!).Arunachala,wants to ensure this factor before He/She/It finally decided to get 'Moving' to enter into your August Presence and give those 'Bribes'.
So please mak sure that there are no 'Daily' Adjournments!
Namaskar.
Dear Anon;,
I think these are the words of Sri
Bhagavan to Smt. Meenakshi, wife of
Muruganar. She had quite a bit of sufferings. No doubt, the story says that Muruganar had left some money for her livelihood. But I do not know how long it had lasted. One member in another blog wrote that she had in fact suffered a lot at the end years. She used to come to the neigbhour [the writer's relative and ask for coffee] and she used to sing some songs of Sri Ramana Stuti Panchakam of Satyamangalam Venkataramana Iyer. Behind a Brahma Jnani, there is always a suffering spouse or family. Sri
Bhagavnn of course was an excepton. He had taken care of Mother Azhagamma. Chinnaswami came on his own accord. But such miseries are there in case of Thinnai Swami's, Mahalakshmi Amma's and Jaishree Rajamani's. The stories had appeared in Mountain Path issues in recent years.
salutations to all:
ravi:
the 'adjournments' are from aruNAchalA's side, not from me :-)))
aruNAchalA has an 'open' invitation from me & is welcome anytime! the sooner he comes, the better for him :-)))
Hi s,
Please spare a thought for your friends on this blog and put in a kind word to Arunachala on our behalf as well. :)
To continue your conversation:
S: Btw, my friends are also waiting for your darshan, and, I won't take 'no' for an answer!
Arunachala: Ah, well, as you say!
:)
s,
Just checked up with Arunachala.Also offered him to take him/she/it to you(We will workout our cuts later!).
I told him what you have posted.
Arunachala is not convinced whether you are truly asking him to come!
I told him about self enquiry and how my dear friend s,has been practising nonstop all these years.
Says he,'Oh!That!'-That is a different self that he is enquiring into.That is obtained by keying in the letter without the Caps Lock on.
No one wants me!'.
He was almost on the point of Breaking down.
I told him sternly-'Look,our friend s,does not like cry babies-Just be your 'Rock' Self!That will stand you in better stead and eventually will obtain you Darshan of 's' '
Arunachala is not convinced that you are telling the Truth and does not accept that all adjournments are from his side.
"How can that be?All enquiry by 's' is about the small 's' in self,and he is foisting on me the accusation of asking for adjournments!!!I have never even been heard!There is no one to hear what I have to say!sob!Sob!Sob...'
I had to cajole poor Arunachala.
I told him'Well,Please do not dismiss my Friend s.He does recite Akshara MaNa Malai,although he accepts this a little grudgingly!'
'Oh!Really,Then perhaps I will come along;Only make sure that your friend gives up enquiring into that 'self'.Only If I am assured of his audience,I can at all take the risk of finding some space to 'move'.
'I will make your plea to the Beloved',said I,Remembering those lines that Master Mahasaya told Mukunda(In Autobiogrpahy of a Yogi).
Now,s,I have to admit that I am no Master Mahasaya!Do take care.Do let me know if there are Transactions 'IF ANY'!:))))
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
ஒருவணாம் உன்ணை ஒளித்தெவர் வருவார் உண்சூ தெயிது அருணாசலா
You are the one without a second, the sole, real being, O Arunachala. Who can hide you or hide from you and come in here? If strangers come in, it is with your knowledge. All this is but your jugglery.
All these as his Jugglery! It only appears here the ideas of 'I' and 'mine' 'you' and 'him' 'this' and 'that' is all அருணாசலண் சூது
Arunachala's Jugglery!
Dear i,
Wonderful. Sri Bhagavan says in the previous verse: When the five senses, which are thieves enter my
mind, are you not there, O Arunachala! Then He says: Without you, the One without second, who can enter my mind? O Arunachala! It is Arunachala who comes as five senses and the sensual distractions. Perhaps it is not He but his consort, Unnamualai, who plays all sorts of sports with this world and the jivas. But she will keep quite if Arunachala says: O dear, do not disturb that chap! He is doing something to realize me!
Some of the verses in Sri AAMM suit my feeble self very aptly. Verses 11, 12, 14 [Avvai=Mother], 18, 19, 40, 45 [the first meaning], 60,72,79, 81, 102, and 105. I call these 13 as thrayodasi prayer of the feeble to Arunachala. I tell these on bed before lying down every night.
Scholars of the highest class, when they hear about the Tao, earnestly carry it into practice.
Scholars of the middle class, when they have heard about it, seem now to keep it and now to lose it.
Scholars of the lowest class, when they have heard about it, laugh greatly at it.
If it were not (thus) laughed at, it would not be fit to be the Tao.
Laotse
Dear Ravi,S, m,
You say anything. AruNachala will
not mind. Many people have already
called Him madcap. Pitha piRaichoodi...[Sundaramuty Swamigal]. He is really mad and He
will giggle at you for anything you say. Once Sri Bhagavan said, whenever someone pointed out that
Seshadri Swamigal is somewhat mad,
"Why only him? There are three mad caps here in T'malai. One is he, the second is I and the third is
Arunachala Himself, who has given half his body to his wife. She is
Annapoorani, who feeds the entire world with a ladle and one pot containing, two nazhi [a measure] rice. But this chap is going for begging in streets.
s/Friends,
The IF ANY context has to be explained.
Once George Bernard Shaw sent two complementary Tickets to Winston Churchill,inviting him for the premiere of one of his Plays,with a note saying-'One for you and the other for your friend,if any!'(Taking a dig at Churchill).
Not to be outdone,Churchill wrote back saying-'"Sorry.Not in a position to attend the Premier show;Will attend the subsequent one,If any!"
Namaskar.
Dear Subramanian,
AAMM is verily a nectar! It has Bhakti, Jnana with "Elumburukkum" appeal, prayer which gives an emotional connect with the Self not just a blind faith but faith coupled with Jnana.
குறையும் குணமும் நியல்லால்
எண்ணென் இவற்ரை எனுயிரெ
எண்ணம் எதுவொ அதுசெய்வாய்
கண்ணெ உன்தன் கழலிணையில்
கதல் பெருக்கெ தருவாயெ
What more do I want? Merit or defect I know none apart from you. My very life you are. Do with me what you will. Only, only give me ever increasing love for Your twin
Feet.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Very true. He is merit and
He is the inadquacy. What we can do? We only pray to Him to give us
abundant love for His anklet-wearing
feet. This bhakti will burn away
all the merits and deficiencies and
take us to His anklet wearing feet. The thought in this Navamani Maalai verse is again a reflection of the verses 11 and 12 of Sri AAMM.
salutations to all:
ravi/subramanian/folks:
folks: just understood that not only is ravi the most prolific contributor to this blog but also the "broker & middleman" (henchman?) of aruNAchalA! many many thanks to him for his most generous offer to mediate & supplicate with aruNAchalA. :-))) yama has his chitragupta; aruNAchalA has his self-proclaimed chief secretary (ravi of course) :-))) btw, though there may not be a 'Self' and a 'self', from the little i understand, vichAra is never for the 'Self' but always directed towards the 'self', which if enquired into, as bhagavAn says, shall so to say reveal its non-existence (can't be 'described'). and of course, as you asked, will definitely keep you & others posted of 'any transactions' (but can't assure since most such transactions are 'secret affairs' - can't publicise such liaisons, isn't it?) :-)))
subramanian: many thanks to you also for re-assuring us that aruNAchalA wouldn't mind our pranks :-))) of course, he wouldn't 'mind' (does aruNAchalA have a mind to mind?) :-))) even otherwise, if you say that's just 'usage', then aruNAchalA better not mind; infact, he dare not :-)
notwithstanding my inability to be a sincere 'bhakta' as most of you here enviably are, i do have a fondness for sundaramurti nAyanAr's 'way' (unlike jnAnasambandhar's way of the 'son' or thirunAvukkarasar's way of the 'servant'); i.e., sundarar's way of the 'friend' who can take untold & unimaginable liberties with aruNAchalA... hahahaha
today, happened to come across this most beautiful verse that left me awestruck:
(from nambiAndArnambi's tiruthondar tiruvandAdhi - periya purAnam, which most of you are aware of, can be taken as a commentary/elaboration on/of this marvellous work)
நம்பன் திருமலை நான்மிதி யேன் என்று தாள் இரண்டும்
உம்பர் மிசைத்தலை யால்நடந் தேற உமைநகலும்
செம்பொன் உருவன் என் அம்மை எனப்பெற்றவள் செழுந்தேன்
கொம்பின் உகுகாரைக் காலினில் மேய குலதனமே
(the verse is on kAraikkAl ammaiyAr - since ravi & subramanian are excellent translators, will request them to do the honours of translating this verse) :-)
Ravi,
That was, but too short a video on youtube :(
S.,
completely agree with this: "but this much i know pretty well that if one is a true bhakta, then but for the lord whom you have gone to visit nothing whatsoever will be an issue". How can waiting for His Darshan ever be a pain, and if we can't dedicate that amount of time to Him, how can we expect to be emancipated. EIther be prepared to wait for long, else don't go. I mostly end up not going looking at the length of the queue :), as I mostly combine temple visit with Giripradakshina.
Z.,
The answer given by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa when there was a theft in his temple - this was simply awesome. Bhagavan Himslef lived this. Never intefered even when things were "obviously" wrong and done openly!
Ravi,
The reply story (theft in temple) is aweomse too... Indeed, isn't it the way world is? One always superimposes oneself on others... I guess that the reason why it is said that the world is reflection of oneself!
Ravi, M and S,
That was a very interesting/entertaining conversation you could have with our only Beloved... So much for His cunning ways!
s/friends,
"just understood ...but also the "broker & middleman" (henchman?) of aruNAchalA!"
Good.Hope you also took note of the lesson learnt by Arvind,so as not to end up with the ego deflated!(Better remember the Kickbacks!:)))
-----------------------------------
Friends,Humour is an important aspect of Spiritual development and thanks to s,we got pulled into it!Appearances are deceptive!
Coming to the Karaikal ammaiyar(Punithavathiyar)-Karaikal Ammaiyar's story is here:
http://www.shaivam.org/nakaarai.html
The song referring to KAraikAl ammaiyAr that s has quoted goes something like this:
"Our Lord's Holy Mount(Mount kailas) I shall not step on"
Thus With both Feet pointing Skywards,as she walked with her Head and climbed;
She was Hailed as 'My Mother'by Uma's mate,He of Golden Form.
Honeycomb laden kAraikAl's Treasure indeed(is she).
-----------------------------------
My thoughts go back to what our Friend Nandu had posted -How he felt that it was out of sheer Grace that Arunachala allowed devotees to walk all over.
Namaskar.
Subramanian, Thanks for your kind reply. I am aware of the story of Meenakshi, Maruganar and Dandapani Swami.My point being attachment and especially family attachment brings with it its own meaure of joy and suffering. I don't know if you and the others on this blog are married or have children or whatever; so it's hard to know if what is written resonates with you and others on the blog site.
s/friends,
"btw, though there may not be a 'Self' and a 'self', from the little i understand, vichAra is never for the 'Self' but always directed towards the 'self'
As I have said,I do not follow this approach.Yet going through,Sri Bhagavan's writing(in nAn yAr?) it does seem that although he seems to be starting with the thought of 'self' somewhere he points to looking for the source,Self.
This is more striking in his translation of Vichara sangraham which begins thus-"Herein is shown 'Who Am I',the path of ATMA Vichara.
-----------------------------------
Hope this stirs some discussion on Atma Vichara!(not ulaga vichara!as i had said).
My simple question is -that if there is 'i',there is also 'not i'.What is it that is aware of the 'i' and 'not i'?
Over to you friends.Please call me when you are through,so that I can make my appearance to collect the 'parking fees'!
Namaskar.
Anonymous,
"My point being attachment and especially family attachment brings with it its own meaure of joy and suffering."
This is what Sri Ramakrishna says:
"You are talking about your leading a householder's life. Suppose you are a householder. It
rather helps in the practice of spiritual discipline. It is like fighting from inside a fort. The
Tantriks sometimes use a corpse in their religious rites. Now and then the dead body
frightens them by opening its mouth. That is why they keep fried rice and grams near them,
and from time to time they throw some of the grains into the corpse's mouth. Thus
pacifying the corpse, they repeat the name of the Deity without any worry. Likewise, the
householder should pacify his wife and the other members of his family. He should provide
them with food and other necessities. Thus he removes the obstacles to his practice of
spiritual discipline."
Here is another excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
A DEVOTEE: "I find it is extremely difficult for a householder to realize God. How few
people can lead the life you prescribe for them! I haven't found any."
MASTER: "Why should that be so? I have heard of a deputy magistrate named Pratap
Singh. He is a great man. He has many virtues: compassion and devotion to God. He
meditates on God. Once he sent for me. Certainly there are people like him.
"The practice of discipline is absolutely necessary. Why shouldn't a man succeed if he
practises sadhana? But he doesn't have to work hard if he has real faith-faith in his guru's
words."
Namaskar
s/friends,
Sorry for that staid translation of the verse-it is easy to translate the 'words' but not the content.
What concerns the 'Bhakta'(we need to se a different word for 's',although he is one!)is :
1.That the Lord is beholden to the devotee and he has called the devotte as 'ammai'(mother!).
2.Treasure of the 'kula'-meaning that she has brought this 'motherhood' to not just her but to her clan-meaning all women!
This is exactly what Sri Ramakrishna has said!
namaskar.
Dear S,
For you, Arunachala is most suited as friend. For me He is most suited as Mother-Father. Ammaiyappar. To be a son for a Mother is quite comfortable for me. Sri Bhagavan says: Avvai pol enakku un aruLai thanthenai aaLuvathu un kadan Arunachala! Like a good mother, you are bound in duty to bestow your grace one me and govern me. [Sri AAMM-9]. Saint Manikkavachagar says "Thaayai mulaiyai tharuvone", as a Mother, you give voluntarily your breasts, fully knowing when I am hungry. [Tiruvachakam, Ananda Maalai].
Karaikal Ammaiyar was a Mother to Siva. She walked with her heads
in Kailasa, and when Siva saw her
coming, He stood up from His seat and called her Amma. She had several unique features:
1. She is the only one sitting majestically among 63 saints, while others are standing in a row,
which you can see in Siva temples.
2. She is the only one who watched Siva's Cosmic Dance, when it was not the dissolution time, in
Tiruvalangadu. She has composed
the famous Tiruvalangadu Mootha Tirupadigam on this. [Tiruvalangadu is about 100 kms from Chennai].
Dear Anon.,
I am married and we, the aged couple
are living in Bangalore. Our only
son is living in Hongkong. At this age, my wife is afraid to send me to Arunachala all by myself and she accompanies me everytime. She thinks that I will become another Muruganar! It will take a million births to become one like that great Ramana Bhakta.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Nan Yar, is only about Anatma-Vichara. Towards shedding all the
aspects of non-Self.
R.Subramanian,
KAraikAl ammaiyar walking on her head!She might have used her hands(I have seen ordinary people do this feat) if she did not want to use her feet!'The walking on the head' just signifies the complete effacement of th 'ego';and in this way this incomparable devotee, who preceded even Jnana Sambandar,scaled the Heights(Mount Kailas)and beheld He,who was inaccessible to Brahma and Vishnu.
----------------------------------
Thanks very much for your interesting facts.Next time when I visit the temple,I will look up at the Holy Mother of kAraikAl to watch her seated!
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian,
"Nan Yar, is only about Anatma-Vichara. Towards shedding all the
aspects of non-Self."
I am around the parking lot!You are saying that 'Nan Yar' is same as 'Neti,Neti'.Thanks to s,I can loiter around the parking lot and collect my 'fee' from others as well!
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.
Subramanian, What an interesting reply. Your wife thinks you might become a sadhu/renunciate! Yes, ripe ones like Mastan,Muruganar, Annamalai or Kunju Swami are rare indeed.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Walking on the head also signifies complete effacement of ego. It is much more difficult than the ordinary namaskaram. Karaikal Ammaiyar could have Siva darshan only upon the killing of ego. When one of the other saints [ I do not remember who it is], wanted to visit Tirualangadu, he was afraid of walking on his feet. He prayed to Siva of Tiruvalangadu from the
town limits and went away. In order to avoid others seeing her as a woman, she was said to have
taken a form of ghost. Sundarmurty Swamigal calls her as
Karaikal Pey.
"btw, though there may not be a 'Self' and a 'self', from the little i understand, vichAra is never for the 'Self' but always directed towards the 'self'"
I think it's important to understand that Vichara is directed at the ego-self only because the Divine Self is located in exactly the same place. Vichara looks at the ego-self, and sees that it is not there at all. What is actually there is the Divine Self.
The Divine Self is the "source" of the ego-self in exactly the same way that the rope is the source of the snake in the famous analogy. In reality, there is no snake, it is just a rope. If one asks what the source of the snake is, one can only point to the rope. But since the snake is not other than the rope, one also points to the snake.
So it is with vichara. One points to the ego-self, because that is where the Divine Self lies, hidden behind the illusion of ego. It is in reality the very same thing. Vichara reveals this by penetrating the illusion and seeing the real identity of what we thought was an ego. It turns out it isn't an ego at all, but the Divine Self.
So while vichara seems to be directed at the ego, in reality it is directed at the Divine Self. This is discovered in the course of practice. The closer one gets to the ego, the more diffuse and illusory it becomes, and the more the Self shines through. So while the beginner directs vichara at his own ego-self, he realizes over time that it is actually directed at the source of ego, the Self.
Broken Yogi,
"What is actually there is the Divine Self."
Parking fees!
"The closer one gets to the ego"
Perhaps you may like to express more on this.
Namaskar.
What is the 'self'? I heard a lot of it but I never could make sense of it.
Friends,
ThAyumAnavar's Ananda kaLippu:
பற்றிய பற்றற உள்ளே-தன்னைப்
பற்றச் சொன் னான்பற்றிப் பார்த்த இடத்தே
பெற்றதை ஏதென்று சொல்வேன் - சற்றும்
பேசாத காரியம் பேசினான் தோழி-சங்கர
To declutch attachment-He asked me to clutch Him tight;
And when I did so,
How will I speak what I got?
Utterly unspeakable matter spoke He;
O Maid! (Chorus)
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Dear Broken Yogi,
Very true. In fact the usage 'killing of ego' is itself incorrect.
The ego has no form. Holding a form,
it rises, holding a form it stays,
feeding on a form it thrives. Leaving one form it takes hold of another. When sought, it takes to flight. Such is the ego-ghost,
with no form of its own. [Sri
Bhagavan in ULLadu Narpadu, Verse 25]. Searching the ego and trying to kill it is like trying bury the shadow. What is necessary is only the attention, as to what it is, then this ghost-ego runs away. In Indian villages, at one
night, one fellow reported that he had seen a ghost. On another night, the second villager said "yes, I also saw it, it is wearing white dress.' On the third night,
a third villager said, 'it is calling me! On the fourth night, a courageous villager went to the spot with a torch and found it to be a stump of a tree, where some plastic paper had been stuck.
Dear Clemens,
How to express what is Self? Sri
Sankara says that It is the entity,
which is the basis, support and substance of inexpressible Bliss,
Knowledge and the Only support for all the universe including Jivas.
Subramanian, R.
How to express what is Self? Sri
Sankara says that It is the entity,...
... parking fees!
... parking fees!
... please.
Dear Clemens,
What is the parking fees one can pay?
Only towing away the ego, which is
non-self with all its atrocities.
... everyone here has to pay parking fees when trying to describe the self, dear Subramanian R.
s/Ramos/Subramanaian,
"everyone here has to pay parking fees"
Do remember the 'Henchman'(without the question mark!)lest you run into trouble dismantling the self,lest your 'i' is transferred to another and vice versa!
Ravi/Subramanian,
S. has posted something in Tamil and left it for you guys to translate. Can you translate it for the non-tamilians pls?
Friends,
Just did a quick chat with Arunachala;asked him his preference,whether he would prefer to be considered as God or As Self.
Said he without a moment's hesitation "Ofcourse,I prefer to be called as Self"
"Any Specific Reason?"
"Elementary Mr self",said Arunachala confidently;'If I consider myself as God',the hordes of 'enquirers' will ask me to prove my existence.On the other hand if I am the Self as you know,I do not need to prove myself.They understand that I am beyond the reach of any enquiry,away rom all those 'trials' that poor god is subjected to,all the responsibilities of having to create,preserve and Destroy".
"Ingenious-I tell you,you are a genius",said I.
So,this is the latest update on how Arunachala became what He was ,since time immemorial;inaccesible to Brahma and Vishnu,yet within easy reach of my keystrokes!
All this to let ou know in no unmistakeable terms,who owns this parking lot!Do remmber and do not be sidetracked by phishing sites.
Namaskar.
Maneesha,
Please see what I have already posted by way of a 'translation'.No fees for these Freebies!
Namaskar.
My bad... didnt observe. thx for the translation!
salutations to all:
ravi/subramanian - thanks for the translation. please do the same for the following two wonderful verses of kAraikkAl ammaiyAr:
[the first has the refernce to aruNAchalA; the second is so beautiful that am also transliterating for those who may not know tamizh (all capitals are for the deeper sounds)]
இன்று நமக்கெளிதே மாலுக்கும் நான்முகற்கும்
அன்றும் அளப்பரியன் ஆனானை - என்றுமோர்
மூவா மதியானை மூவே ழுலகங்கள்
ஆவானைக் காணும் அறிவு
அறிவானுந் தானே அறிவிப்பான் தானே
அறிவாய் அறிகின்றான் தானே - அறிகின்ற
மெய்ப்பொருளுந் தானே விரிசுட்ர்பார் ஆகாயம்
அப்பொருளுந் தானே அவன்
[aRivAnum thAnE aRivippAn thAnE
aRivAy aRiginRAn thAnE
aRiginRa meypporuLum thAnE virisudarpAr AgAyam
apporuLum thAnE avan]
maneesha/arvind etc.: since you folks are also very avid readers of bhagavAn's writings (all of which are in tamizh), perhaps you could spare a little time everyday and somehow learn tamizh - that way you may be able to read and relish the extraordinary treasures of this language (have just begun to do so and request you too to try it out). to read in the 'original' does make a difference :-)))
s/Friends,
We were wondering how Lord Siva was so quick to rise to his feet and welcome kAraikAl Ammaiyar ;the following verse of her's tells it all!
இனிவார் சடையினில் கங்கை என்பாளை அங்கத்திருந்த
கனிவாய் மலைமங்கை காணில் என் செய்தி ? கையிற் சிலையால்
முனிவார் திரிபுரம் மூன்றும் வெந்தன்று செந்தீயின் மூழ்கத்
தனிவார் கணையொன்றினால் மிகக் கோத்த எம் சங்கரனே!
In this verse,she questions where all the Bravado of Lord Siva ,who burnt with a single arrow(AUM-ravi)the Tripura[Please see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripura_(mythology)]would go,if Divine Mother Uma,his better half,comes to see the other Lady Ganga(River Ganges)adorning his matted Locks!
In yet another verse,she pokes a dig at Lord siva sharing the Bull with his spouse uma-meaning he is a big miser,not willing to get her a Bull!(somewhat like travelling in an outdated morris minor,and sharing it with his spouse!)
No wonder with all these 'well kept' secrets she had Lord Siva at her feet.
s,time that we come to know such secrets about Arunachaleswara!Will help to double parking fees!
Namaskar.
Ravi,
""The closer one gets to the ego"
Perhaps you may like to express more on this."
"Closer" is of course a relative term. Usually, attention goes to objects and we become engrossed in "world", but even so a sense of self remains. Vichara means to inspect this sense of self and not worry or put attention on the world.
At first our inspection of the sense of self is "distant". We look upon even our own self as a "thing" we can put our attention on, as if it is "other" to us. We treat the ego as a "real" thing. One sees this in psychology, for example. They have many concrete theories about self and what it is and how it operates, even down to scientific theories of consciousenss. But if one looks more "closely" at this sense of self, it is like looking more closely at the snake. One begins to see the glimmerings of a rope there.
At first those glimmerings of a rope are mysterious and inexplicable. We also tend to objectify them. So those glimmerings of the Self become Gods and Goddesses of all kinds to us. And yes, real and living in a certain sense, as real as we are, but still actually just rooted in this Self. But if we look more closely at these glimmerings of the Self in the actual position of the Self, we see that they, and our own ego, have no actual "thingness" to them. They become more and more transparent, like a layer of reflective, oily film on the ocean. We start to see the ocean itself, consciousness itself, shining through.
So the closer we inspect this sense of "self", the more we see through its illusion and apprehend the reality that is its source. The rope's nature becomes more obvious to us, and the vestigal impression of the snake fades and seems less and less real. Realization is when the whole illusion just falls away and we know ourselves directly. But that does not mean one cannot get "closer" to seeing this. All of genuine religion is about getting "closer" to God. In reality that isn't what's going on, but it's fair enough to use that word since it describes how it feels in practice. One isn't actually "closer" to what one already is. But in practice it certainly is how one goes about the inspection. One feels more and more deeply into this sense of ego-self, and as one does, it breaks up and dissolves. Not all at once for the most part, but gradually.
As Nisargadatta said, the fruit on a tree ripens slowly, but when it falls to the ground, it does so suddenly. I am speaking here of the ripening process, not the sudden falling. There is no sudden falling until the fruit is ripe, which means inspecting the ego more and more closely.
Broken yogi,
"One feels more and more deeply into this sense of ego-self, and as one does, it breaks up and dissolves. Not all at once for the most part, but gradually."
Thanks very much.I understand what you are trying to express.One(ego sense) gets closer to god,the ego sense loses its hold and drops out-just like the moon may still be faintly seen in the Daytime.This is called Viveka Chandrodhayam.The source of Light ,whether of the moon or the sun is Ofcourse that of the sun.
Namaskar.
s/Friends,
இன்று நமக்கெளிதே மாலுக்கும் நான்முகற்கும்
அன்றும் அளப்பரியன் ஆனானை - என்றுமோர்
மூவா மதியானை மூவே ழுலகங்கள்
ஆவானைக் காணும் அறிவு
This day,Easy indeed for us the Knowledge that can see the one-who,Even That day,was Beyond the Reach of Vishnu and Brahma -
Forever Timeless(without past,present and future) consciousness ,who has become the 21worlds.
Namaskar.
s/Friends,
அறிவானுந் தானே அறிவிப்பான் தானே
அறிவாய் அறிகின்றான் தானே - அறிகின்ற
மெய்ப்பொருளுந் தானே விரிசுட்ர்பார் ஆகாயம்
அப்பொருளுந் தானே அவன்
I am a little hesitant to attempt the Translation of this verse.It describes the state where the distinction between the Taught,the Teacher,the Thing taught is lost-all is verily the self.
So before I do so-better to collect the Parking fee-Paypal is available!The Readers of this Blog are trustworthy,so credit facility is offered.
-----------------------------------
Attempted Translation:
The Disciple(learner)is the self,the Teacher(Guru)is the Self;
The Knower of Consciousness is the Self-The Truth(substance)known is the Self
He alone is this manifest Light(sun,stars),earth,sky et all.
Namaskar.
Ramana Maharshi responds to questions:
Q: Does my realisation help others?
A: Yes, certainly. It is the best help possible. But
there are no others to be helped. For the realised being
sees only the Self, just like a goldsmith estimating
the gold in various items of jewelry sees only gold.
When you identify yourself with the body then only the
forms and shapes are there. But when you transcend your
body the others disappear along with your
body-consciousness.
Q: Is it so with plants, trees, etc.?
A: Do they exist at all apart from the Self? Find it
out. You think that you see them. The thought is
projected out from the Self. Find out from where it
rises. Thoughts will cease to rise and the Self alone
will remain.
Q: I understand theoretically. But they are still there.
A: Yes. It is like a cinema show. There is the light on
the screen and the shadows fleeting across it impress
the audience as the enactment of some piece. If in the
same play an audience also is shown on the screen as
part of the performance, the seer and the seen will then
both be on the screen. Apply it to yourself. You are the
screen, the Self has created the ego, the ego has its
accretions of thoughts, which are displayed as the
world, the trees and the plants of which you are asking.
In reality, all these are nothing but the Self. If you
see the Self, the same will be found to be all,
everywhere and always. Nothing but the Self exists.
Ravi, Subramanian R... closer to the ego...
I remember the first time when I sat down and tried to put into practice what Ramana said about vichara.
Within a few minutes I realized that there was a picture of my body within the mind. This picture was like a mirror image of my body or like the copy of what I believed to be myself. I called it the 'body picture' (german 'Körperbild').
This body picture behaved like I believed to behave; it made the corresponding gestures and mimics. I found out that this picture actually controlled what I should say and do.
From now on when I found this body picture in the mind I knew that there is the ego identfication being active.
Ramos,
"when I sat down and tried to put into practice what Ramana said about vichara."
Did you sit with eyes open or closed?
Namaskar.
TRIPURA RAHASYA, Chapter X:
1-5. Hemalekha noticed that her husband had attained supreme peace and so did not disturb him. He awoke in an hour and a half, opened his eyes and saw his wife nearby. Eager to fall into that state once more, he closed his eyes; and immediately Hemalekha took hold of his hands and asked him sweetly: My Lord, tell me what you have ascertained to be your gain on closing your eyes, or your loss on opening them, my dearest. I love to hear you. Do say what happens on the eyes being closed or left open.
6. On being pressed for an answer, he looked as if he were drunk and replied reluctantly and languidly, as follows:
7-14. My dear, I have found pure untainted happiness. (...)
15-27. The wise girl gently smiled at all this, and said to him: My lord, you do not yet know the highest state of sanctity (which is not besmirched by duality), reaching which the wise transcend duality and are never perplexed. That state is as far from you as the sky is from the earth. Your small measure of wisdom is as good as no wisdom, because it is not unconditional, but remains conditioned by closing or opening your eyes. Perfection cannot depend on activity or the reverse, on effort or no effort. How can that state be a perfect one if mental or physical activity can influence it or if the displacement of the eyelid by the width of eight barley grains makes all the difference to it? Again, how can it be perfect if located only in the interior? What shall I say of the grandeur of your delusion! How ridiculous to think that your eyelid, one inch long, can shut up the expanse in which millions of worlds revolve in one corner alone!
Changing the subject: Do you remember Ramanagiris three ways to deal with the mind? I'm missing here the ways taught in Yoga Vasistha.
'Our own mind is the greatest cheater in the world. It will make thousands of different reasons to go its own way. There are three ways of handling this cheat, who is nothing but a bundle of thoughts creeping into the conscious mind.
First, to treat him as a friend and give him full satisfaction. This is a very long and tiresome way because he is never satisfied.
Second, to treat him as an enemy and with all force try to get rid of him. This is only possible by the grace of the divine because the mind has got two very powerful weapons – the discriminating intellect and the imaginative faculty. These two fellows can convince even God himself that black is white.
The third way is the way taught by Sri Ramana in the days of silence at the foot of sacred Arunachala. This way, which has been adopted by this fool, is to treat the mind as a patient, or rather several patients who are coming to a doctor to complain about their various ailments.'
Ramos,
Your post from Tripura Rahasya did not answer the question that I had asked.
We do appreciate Hemalekha's view.
Namaskar.
Ravi, I'm sorry about that. I thought that it would answer your question. I did that what I described 11 years ago. Today I don't shut my eyes any longer.
salutations to all:
ravi: thanks for the translations.
folks: what do you think? our prolific contributor (ravi) has been quite obsessed (disturbed?) with collecting 'parking fees' over the last 2 days (guess the bristol zoo episode really affected him a bit adversely!). also he has been asking 'profound' questions of the type (did you keep your eyes open or closed?) - don't you think folks, ravi needs to be prescribed his own medicine (i.e., sort-of uttered in his pre-hallucinated state!):
"I would recommend curd rice and nutritious food, little bit of service,prayer,nama Smaran,reading the lives of Great saints to this gentleman.If he visits Tiruvannamalai,he may do Giri Pradakshina" :-)))
Ramos,
It is alright friend.In whatever way it is convenient,we may do Sadhana.-sitting,standing,lying down,eyes open or closed,awake or asleep!
Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.
s,
"(ravi) has been quite obsessed (disturbed?) with collecting 'parking fees' over the last 2 days (guess the bristol zoo episode really affected him a bit adversely!).... don't you think folks, ravi needs to be prescribed his own medicine "
Truly disturbing.He is also chatting with Arunachala and now we do not know who infected who-better to quarantine both.Particularly concerned that s,an ardent 'enquirer' has left behind his enquiry and waxing enthusiastic over learning Tamil and his new found love in kAraikAl ammaiyar.
All this needs to be thoroughly enquired into!Only a 'joint enquiry' would help in this matter.
Namaskar:))))
There is a saying that the disciple follows the guru at least 12 years and gains moksha afterwards. Does anyone here knows more about this?
Does anyone here knows more about this?
... somebody ...
Dear Maneesha,
What Karaikal Ammaiyar said [as said
by Sekkizhar the author of Periyapuranam] is: I shall not walk with my legs on the Holy Hill of my
god of gods [Siva], so saying she was
walking with her head; When Uma was
smiling at this strange feat, Siva stood up from His seat and called her Amma {Mother], as she was coming towards Him.
Dear S.,
Even Manikkavachagar speaks about this Ganga-Parvati duel, in Tiruvachakam. In Tiruchazhal, the
saint says, - as a conversation between two girls playing games] -
one is asking: When he has kept the daughter of Mountain [Himalayas] on
one side, how come, he keeps Ganga on his head. The other girl is answering: If Ganga is not held in
his matted locks, she, who came down ferociously, from heavens [Akasa Ganga] will pour down on the earth and the whole earth will be deluged. So he kept on his matted locks and left only a small oozing drop through one of his hairs, which become the Ganga River
on India. In fact, unlike as what
many think, Siva does not have two wives. His only wife is Parvati., Nowhere in Indian temples, you can see Siva with two wives.
Dear S.,
Now He is easy to attain. But He become immeasurable to Mal [Vishnu]
and Kamalan [Brahma], because they wanted to measure Him, with ego and intellect. He is wearing a crescent moon, which never ages, i.e. it is ever the 3rd digit waxing moon. He is also the three X seven worlds, and everything.
He is the Knowledge. He is also
the announcer of Knowledge, i.e conferer of Knowledge. He is the bright celestials like sun, stars, moon and the Pure Space, beyond.
Dear Ravi and Romos,
Do you know what Sri Bhagavan told
Annamalai Swami: Opening the eyes
and doing meditation is better. You will now what aspect of your senses is distracting you, whether eyes, or ears, or nose [smell of badam halwa from the kitchen], skin [some ants crawling on your thigh. You can divert your thoughts then from those senses. However, closing the eyes and doing meditation, the mind, which is alone not closed, will act more vigorously and disturb you. It is like throwing a ball towards the wall,standing closer to the wall. The ball will rebound faster and hit you. [This is for closed eyes
meditation]. But if you keep a
little away from the wall and throw the ball, you will have time to know the return time/velocity of the ball. You can be better
guarded to catch it. [this is open eyes meditation.] - From Annmalai Swami's Tamizh book Sri Ramana NinaivugaL.
Dear Ramos,
12 years were prescribed in the ancient days, because, the boy goes to the guru at the age of 6, after upanayana [wearing the sacred thread]and the formal course covering poorva mimasa, uttaramimasa, kapila, sankyha, vaiseshika nyaya etc., took so much time, to understate the ultimate meaning of non duality,
and then meditate on that to attain
moksha. By the time, the boy will be 18. Either he can choose to remain in the state of non dual consciousness or come down to householdership, i.e getting married. The marriage and householder's duty are not hindrance to his state of non dual consciousness.
Dear Ravi,
As I said in some other post of today, Ganga who descended from
Akasa, as per Bhagiratha's prayers,
was held by Siva, to contain her ferocious falling on the earth. Otherwise, she is not a wife of Siva.
I have quoted Saint Manikkavachagar
in some post of today.
Subramanian, R., From Annmalai Swami's Tamizh book Sri Ramana NinaivugaL
What is this book about? Do you have it in English? I know 'Living by the words...' and 'Final talks'.
Subramanian R. ...12 years were prescribed in the ancient days...
Do you know why exactly 12 years? Perhaps it has also a spiritual meaning?
R.Subramanaian,
"Otherwise, she is not a wife of Siva."
We need to clarify this to kAraikAl Ammaiyar!That was a verse by her.
Namaskar.
Dear Ramos,
12 years is the period during which
the bond with family and royalty is completely snapped. That is why
Kaikeyi also wanted Rama to be in exile for 12 years. Kauravas told
Pandavas to be away in forests for
12 years. And perhaps, 12 years may
be needed to know all the branches
of Vedas, like poorva mimasa., etc.,
Dear Ramos,
Sri Ramana Ninaivugal is a Tamizh
book of Annamalai Swami containing
some notes. There is no reprint.
Some details are available in David's
book Living with the Words. The Tamizh book was published by Annamalai Swami Asramam, Palakottu,
which is now defunct after AS's merger with Bhagavan.
salutations to all:
subramanian:
i could be wrong here, but do have a doubt on what you said on the kind of education a student may have received in a vEda pAtashAla -
(perhaps, checking with a pAtashAla like the one at ramaNAsramam/kAnchi/srngeri etc. might help)
1. am not sure whether students used to be taught 'darsana' (or the six orthodox systems of philosophy (nyAya, sAnkhya etc.) during their stay at the school. a friend of mine who had spent a pretty good length of time learning through the kAnchi matam also said that the primary emphasis has always been on learning the veda by listening, which includes the samhitAs & the upanishads, but does not cover (except most briefly for informational purposes) any systematic study of any philosophical system (even sAnkarabhAshya is not included!).
2. even if for the moment we assume that the students do learn 'darshana', as you know, all the systems are based on the sruti but are of independent authority, and thus do NOT accept any gradation among themselves; i.e., uttara-mImAmsa is one of those systems but isn't the culmination as such. it's also unlikely that the 'passing-out' student was established in any kind of a non-dual state, and who could exercise the option of 'coming down to householdership' (as you said).
Dear Ravi,
Karaikal Ammaiyar merely says that Uma will get angry when she sees
Ganga on the matted locks. It is
simply a jealousy of a woman for another woman, by Siva giving her room on the locks. Amma does not say that Ganga has become his wife.
Siva did it more to stop the ferocity of Ganga lest she would cause deluge on the earth, but not to marry her! Muruga is called Shanmathuran since Kartika stars
breast fed him. Do Kartika stars
are considered as wives of Siva?
salutations to all:
ravi:
it's true i have 'risen', not fallen :-), in love with bhagavAn & tamizh (inspired by bhagavAn & fuelled by the tEvAram). they have 'done their mischief' which i can't put down in words! kAraikkAl ammaiyAr's poems, it's said, set the tone for all the padhigams 'style' that was to come later. ammaiyAr's very first verse of the 'mUttha thiruppadhigam' is a heart-moving verse of ammaiyAr's description:
[ravi/subramanian: as earlier, please do your excellent translations for those not versed with tamizh]
கொங்கை திரங்கி நரம்பெழுந்து குண்டுகண் வெண்பற் குழிவயிற்றுப்
பங்கி சிவந்திரு பற்கள்நீண்டு பரடுயர் நீள்கணைக் காலோர்பெண்பேய்
தங்கி அலறி உலறுகாட்டில் தாழ்சடை எட்டுத் திசையும்வீசி
அங்கங் குளிர்ந்தனல் ஆடுமெங்கள் அப்பன் இடந்திரு ஆலங்காடே
(ko~ngai thira~ngi narambezhundu guNdukaN veNpal kuzhivayiRRu
pa~ngi sivanthiru paRkaLnIndu nILkaNai kAlorpeNpEy
tha~ngi alaRi ulaRukAttil thAzhsadai ettu thisaiyumvIsi
a~nga~ng kuLirnthanal AdumengaL appan idam thiruAlangAdE)
note: "~ng" is like the guttural nasal of devanAgarI (ka kha ga gha --); "t" is like the retroflux 't' (lower) and "th" is like the dental 'th' (lower - no 'upper' 'th' of nAgarI in tamizh); "d" is like the retroflux 'd' of nAgarI (lower - no 'upper' 'd' of nAgarI in tamizh)
R.Subramanaian,
" It is
simply a jealousy of a woman for another woman, by Siva giving her room on the locks"
Friend,Do you think our Divine Mother is dumb(madanthai as she sometimes is called-male chauvinism!)that she will be 'jealous'!We need to learn to appreciate the Humour of kAraikAl ammaiyar.
These are poetic license taken by these great ones to infuse in us a sense of intimacy with God.They were on such terms with the Divine.
Namaskar.
s,
An excellent translation of the 'elder' pathigam is available here:
http://www.shaivam.org/english/sen_thiru11_kkl_alangadu_mutta_1.htm
Here is the translation of the first verse that you have posted.
"The breast have dried up; the nerves are bulging;
Sunk are the eyes and hollow is the maw;
Ruddy are the gums in the two rows of teeth;
Two white teeth are jutting out; long are
The raised ankles: thus, even thus is she—a ghost!
In the withered wood she abides screaming.
In that wilderness of a forest, with His flowing
Matted hair wafting in all the eight directions
He—our Father--, dances carrying in His
Cool body, the fire. Behold Tiruaalangkaadu!"
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Friends,
you may refer to this site for the story of kAraikAl ammaiyar and have a look at her skeletal form(described in the earlier verse s has quoted) depicted here:
http://www.shaivam.org/nakaarai.html
Namaskar.
S.,
I thot u were a tamilian! well, without being a tamilian if u cud learn it and know so much, it definitely rekindles hope in me! I have been wanting to learn Tamizh since translations are, unless approved by Bhagavan, given subjective perspective, unwantingly/unknowingly. Then again, I have heard that colloquial tamil is diff from literary tamil so much that Bhagavan's Ulladu Narpaduy could be understood only by a few tamilians! So, I am not sure where/from whom to learn the literary tamil! How and where did u learn?
Hi Clemens, folks,
The 12 years a sadhaka spends with the Guru as per tradition are considered to be a “mini-mahayuga” for him.
One “Mahayuga” is one cycle of time (without going into a detailed discussion of the “yugas”) which equals 12,000 “Divine Years”. (One “Divine Year” = 360 solar years, thus giving a value of 4,320,000 solar years for 1 “Mahayuga”). Thus, ideally, the time that should be spent with the Guru should be 12,000 years, so as to have a perfect analogy with the 12,000 “Divine Years”. But obviously 12,000 years would be a bit much for most of us.
So, typically, the time period is reduced to 12 years to suit human life-spans, and this period, considered auspicious, will repeatedly appear in mythological stories.
Though, strictly speaking, the Manu Smriti recommends something different:
III.1. “The course of study of the three Vedas to be gone through in the house of the Guru is for 36 years, the half of that, or a quarter, or only until mastery.”
Best wishes
salutations to all:
ravi: many thanks for the translation & the shaivam.org link.
maneesha: hahahaha... it's true my mother-tongue is tamil but given my father's 'transferable' job (retired now), spent most of my time in calcutta & hyderabad. though i have been speaking tamil (colloquial) from childhood, never had any interest to learn tamil! thought like many today that language is only for basic communication :-(. my parents know tamil well but i never showed any inclination :-(. it was only after coming to bhagavAn (~5 years ago) that, very slowly, began to get an interest to learn. curiously, my parents are very simple folks and not given to much reading! so, given the long years outside tamilnad, we didn't have any tamil books at home (my mother is very good at tamil but doesn't read any magazines - the only thing she reads is the 'Hindu' englsih newspaper!).
truly, it's only in the past 2 years that i seriously learned the alphabets from my mother & began to recite the tEvAram (i simply sing along the wonderful renditions of dharmapuram svAminAthan, perhaps the most renowned odhuvar (singer of tEvArams) of our times). it was quite hard in the beginning because tamil is very different from sanskrit/hindi (& thus from almost all other indian languages). started with the thiruvAchakam rendition and focussed only on reading the script & not on their meaning! then, slowly extended that to the compositions of jnAnasambandhar, appar, and sundarar (not the whole thing - it will take a lifetime to read the whole thing!), the 9th & 11th thirumurai as well.
used to set aside an hour on saturday & sunday for this task. nowadays, typically i spend half-an-hour everyday to recite at random some padhigam or the other, and an hour or two on saturdays and sundays. can read the script quite comfortably now and also many a times able to make out a good part of the meaning too :-). also i keep a dictionary within immediate reach :-). currently, to make it better, trying to read a page of the thiruvAchakam (this time with one of the most detailed commentaries available in tamil) everyday before going to sleep :-)
in a way, my case is very strange - i might be one of those privileged ones who has been made to learn tamil almost entirely through the tEvaram! hahahahaha
maneesha - get hold of somebody, wherever you are, from whom you can learn the alphabets of the language (with pronunciation). anyone comfortable with any indian language should be able to do this in a short while. after that, you may try out what i have been doing... :-)
Friends,
Came across this interesting observation in the introduction to Tirumanthiram by Dr B Natarajan published by the Himalayan academy.This is an excerpt from a talk by sri sivaya subramuniya swami:
"The term "Siddhanta" appears for the first time in the Tirumantiram. The word anta carries the connotation of goal}conclusion, as does the English word "end." Tirumular's specific use of the word was "the teachings and the true conclusions of the Saiva Agamas." And these he felt were identical with Vedanta or "the conclusions of the Upanishads." In fact, he makes it very clear that pure Saiva Siddhanta must be based on Vedanta. Siddhanta is specific, giving the sadhanas and practical disciplines which bring one to the final Truth. Vedanta is general, simply declaring in broad terms the final Truth that is the goal of all paths. There are those who would intellectually divide Siddhanta from Vedanta, thus cutting off the goal from the means to that goal. But our Guru Paramparai(tradition-ravi) holds them to be not different. How can we consider the mountain path less important than the summit to which it leads us? Both are one. Siddhanta and Vedanta are one also, and both are contained in Saiva Siddhanta. That is the conclusion of scripture and the conclusion of my own experiences as well. The Suddha Siddhanta of Saiva Siddhanta is Vedanta. Vedanta was never meant to stand alone, apart from worship, apart from religious tradition. It has only been taken in that way since Swami Vivekananda brought it to the West. The Western man and Western-educated Eastern man have tried in modern Vedanta to secularize traditional Sanatana Dharma, to take the philosophical conclusions of the Hindu religion and set them apart from the religion itself, apart from Chariya and Kriya-service and devotion. Vedantists who are members of other religions have unintentionally sought to adopt only the highest philosophy of Hinduism to the exclusion of the rich customs, observances and temple worship. They have not fully realized that these must precede yoga for yoga to be truly successful. Orthodox Hindus understand these things in a larger perspective. These same problems of misinterpretation must have existed even in Saint Tirumular's time, for he writes that "Vedanta is Suddha (pure) Saiva Siddhanta." (Verse 1422). "The faultless Jnani is the Lord of endless wisdom in whom has dawned the final Truth of Siddhantam, the cream of pure Vedantam." (Verse 1428).
-----------------------------------
For the entire talk ,Please visit http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/tirumantiram/GurudevaTalk.html
Please visit http://www.himalayanacademy.com/satgurus/gurudeva/
for an introduction to sivaya subramuniya swami.
Namaskar.
Folks,
Bhagavan has actually understood our predicament and has given us options with languages. You need lot more Bhaava to strut in Tamil:)Moreover there are only 16 or so consonants in Tamil and one coming from other languages might end up with strange mixed accent.
Subramania Bharathiyar has recommended Sundara Teluginil Pattisaitthu and Bhagawan couldn't agree more with his Dwipaadaas or if you feel more Gentry try Sanskrit versios.
-z
"12 years were prescribed in the ancient days,..."
The reason for 12 might be much more deeper. Ramakrishna used to say that if one practices Brahmacharya for 12 years, a special nerve called "Medha" nadi develops in him which makes the person perceive very subtle things easily.
Regards Murali
z/Friends,
I have to agree with s.I do not think any other language can be compared with Tamil for sheer richness of spiritual literature(this includes sanskrit as well!).No other language has the likes of tirukkural or Tirumanthiram,nAladiyAr,pura nAnooru AganAnooru,....ad infinitum.Bharatiyar has also said-yam aRintha mozhigalile tamizhai pOl inithAvathu engum kAnOm-meaning 'among the languages I KNOW no other is as sweet as Tamil'-He knew sanskrit,Hindi,Telungu,English(favourite poet shelley),French.
I am not saying this in the spirit of what Bernard Shaw said about patriotism-"patriotism is the strong conviction that one's country is the best simply because one is born in it!"
It definitely is an advantage to learn more languages,more so Tamil-It surely is worth it.
Namaskar.
Friends,
Here is a verse from the Fifth Tantra of Tirumanthiram(a work so revered by Sri Bhagavan who advised chanting of this when Great devottes like MastAn swami attained mahA samAdhi)-verse 1494:
வளங்கனி யொக்கும் வளநிறத் தார்க்கும்
வளங்கனி யொப்பதோர் வாய்மைய னாகும்
உளங்கனிந் துள்ள முகந்திருப் பார்க்குப்
பழங்கனிந் துள்ளே பகுந்துநின் றானே.
1494: Love Basis of Yoga
Even for the Yogi austere
Who attains the glossy hue of the rich ripe fruit
The Lord is hard of shell unto the wood-apple fruit,
But to them whose hearts ripe in love,
And taste the sweets of divine rapture,
He opens all of Himself
Unto a rich fruit mature.
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
The mind's inability to comprehend God
Another day the Master was seated on the small couch in his room, with his usual beaming
countenance. M. arrived with Kalikrishna, who did not know where his friend M. was
taking him. He had only been told: "If you want to see a grog-shop, then come with me.
You will see a huge jar of wine there." M. related this to Sri Ramakrishna, who laughed
about it. The Master said: "The bliss of worship and communion with God is the true wine,
the wine of ecstatic love. The goal of human life is to love God, Bhakti is the one essential
thing. To know God through jnana and reasoning is extremely difficult."
-----------------------------------
s,just as i read about 'the Grog shop'(ThAkur),have bid goodbye to loitering around parking lot!
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Excellent verse and translation.
VaLangani is what we call today,
ViLampazham. The ripeness or otherwise of ViLampazham is not known from outside. Its outer skin
-tough one- remains the same. Like that the ardent devotees, have got a sweet inner disposition, but outside they appear normal. So also Jnanis. Only with Rangan, Sri Bhagavan moved so casually, swimming with him and kicking him while diving in Tiruvannamalai. He was just the same Venkataraman with him. When Rangan asked: Swami, can Jnanis get married also? Sri Bhagavan smiled and said: Hmm..... Later after many
years, Rangan's son wrote a poem called Sri Ramana Jnana Vivaham. I met Rangan's daughter's grandaughter, one Mrs. Bhanu
Ramachandran in T'malai in one of my recent visits.
Subramanian, I have meditated in the presence of Annamalai Swami and he sat with his eyes closed.
Of course that doesn't mean that years ago he didn't meditate with his eyes open.
Ramana has written that meditation with eyes open or closed is only the problem of the merest novice.
Dear Ravi,
I agree with the poetic licence part of Karaikal Ammaiyar. But why not
Mother Uma should behave like a typical housewife with all her picadillos? Then, how come, 1) she
closed the eyes of Siva, from behind with her two hands? 2) Why should she
attend Daksha's sacrifice, fully knowing that her husband had not been invited? The god/goddess is also sometimes shown as normal human being. Like Rama crying for the missing Sita, and Sita doubting Lakshmana for not going
in search of Rama, when the cry "Lakshamana" was heard.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. The introduction of B. Natarajan is excellent for his translation of Tirumandiram. Muruganar has also said that Siddhantam is the conclusion of Siva-
agamas and Vedanta is the conclusion
of Vedas. In one song, Sivam is described as the final principle of
Agamas and Vedas.
PATIENCE
"One of the Buddha's monks, Purma, wanted to teach
meditation to the Western Suner, a wild and dangerous
people. The Buddha thought such an idea was overzealous,
but tested Purma.
'But, Purma, these are violent, cruel, and furious
people. When they get angry and curse you, what will you
think?'
'I shall think they are basically kind and good although
they address me with insults. And at least they don't
beat me or stone me.'
'But suppose they do beat you and hit you with stones,
what will you think?'
'I shall think they are kind and good since at least
they are not using clubs and swords.'
'But suppose they do attack you with clubs and swords.'
'I shall still think they are kind and good for
delivering me from this unfortunate body.'
'Oh, very well, very well, Purma. With such perfect and
saintly patience as all that you may certainly go and
live among these violent people. Go, Purma-who knows,
you may be able to deliver some and show them the way to
freedom.'" ~Majjhima Nikaya
Have compassionate love for others but keep it secret;
do not make a display of it or talk about it. If your
desires are fulfilled , do not be elated , and if you
are frustrated do not be dissapointed. The elation may
be deceptive ; it should be checked , for initial joy
may end in final grief. After all , whatever happens ,
you remain unaffected , just as you are.
from Conscious Immortality
Conversations with Sri Ramana Maharshi
glow
Dear S.,
I am surprised to know your efforts
in learning classical Tamizh. It is a great feat indeed. Usually learners start with Aathi Choodi and KonRai Vendan of Saint Poetess Avvaiyar. But you have chosen to go with Tiruvachakam and Tevaram. Quite happy to know this. If I had
put in half of your efforts in learning Sanskrit, which I attempted several times and had given up, I would have succeeded. Sri Bhagavan's Tamizh in ULLadu Narpadu is quite tough. Particularly if one reads the compound words without breaking them. It is the ultimate qualification for a Tamizh knowing person.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. www.Shaivam.org is an excellent blog. There are several old Tamizh scriptures given there. There are also some Sanskrit slokas. In fact,
many may not know that Sri Siva
Sahasranamam has got 2 versions. One as in Mahabharata and another as in Linga Puranam. My wife wanted the Linga Puranam version. I checked up with Giri Trading Company and Vedanta Book House,
in Bangalore. It was not available.
Then I was browsing through www.Shaivam.org. And to my surprise, I found both the versions not only in Tamizh and also in Sanskrit. Yesterday I took the print-out. There are some scriptures in Tamizh like Chidambara Mummanikovai which are rare to get. Similarly www.kaumaram.com. gives the entire available Tirupugazh songs of Arunagiri Natha [some 1300 poems]
and also other poems on Muruga.
Dear Ravi,
Karaikal Ammmaiyar is one of the oldest Saiva saints like Kannappar,
and Nakkirar. Nakkirar and Nakkira Deva Nayanar, I am not sure are one and the same. However, Nakkirar's
Tiru Murugatru Padai praising Muruga is appearing in 11th Tirumurai. But Nakkirar's work is also appearing in Sangam literature under Pathu Paattu, 10 songs. Apart from Siva, Muruga is alone is included in 12 Canons.
These three are even earlier than Tiru Jnana Sambandhar.
Dear S.,
I am not sure whether you have got
all the 12 Saiva-canons in books.
This contains Tevaram, Tiruvachakam,
Tiru Chitrambala Kovaiyar, Tiurmandiram, Periya Puranam and other works. This is priced at incredibly low price of Rs 300 [due to donations, something less than cost price. But only original verses.] You may write to
Sri Siva. A. Bhaktavatchalam,
43, Sannidhi Street, Nallur Pettai,
Gudiyatham, 632 602 India. {Ph:
04171 222946}. Two reprints have come so far. It is treasure in these days of spiralling inflation. The courier charges may be Rs 60 within India.,
arvind, Subramniam R.
The 12 years a sadhaka spends with the Guru as per tradition are considered to be a “mini-mahayuga” for him.
Thank your for your detailled information. Very interesting!
salutations to all:
subramanian/ravi
(both of you are much elder to me, so please don't mind me addressing you by first names for the purposes of the 'blog') :-)
thank you for your words of encouragement in my learning tamizh. as i get more & more comfortable, will gradually increase my tamizh 'readings' & extend it to the vast literature available for both prose & poetry in this most sweet langauge :-) in a way, since bhagavAn's writings (especially uLLadu nArpadu) are in classical style, getting a better grasp of the language through the tEvAram (which also, as you know, is mostly classical) has been a blessing in disguise. and most fortunately for us, there is this very lucid commentary (in tamizh) of lakshmaNa sharmA on uLLadu nArpadu, which was approved by bhagavAn himself (including one of those very rare instances of bhagavAn intervening to get it published!). in my little opinion, nothing more may be necessary for obtaining a firm understanding of 'the reality in 40 verses (UL)' (of course vichAra is necessary!) :-)))
Dear Clemens Vargas Ramos,
Vedic learning in all its aspects,
required about 12 years of time.
Secondly, the boy should join the
teacher at a tender age of 6, after
upanayana [sacred thread ceremony].
It is a tough task, with very little food everyday and about 8 hours of learning and practice. Sanskrit pronounciation is an equally tough one. I am of the view, that only from this point of view, it was allotted to Brahmins to do this. The other three classes viz., royal class, traders class, and labourers class had no time for all these exclusive training. The prince has to ascend the throne after the king
and before that he should learn all arts of archery, sword fighting, horse riding, car riding etc., The trader has again to train his young one in trading practices. The labourer has to place the young ones in labour of different types. However, all these three classes were permitted
to listen to Vedic chantings, if not chanting by themselves. This point came up for discussion in the Old Hall. Sri Bhagavan accordingly gave the same type of view. That is, others can listen to Vedic chanting, but not recite or chant. In post-Independent India, all these have changed. Now Vedic Chanting like Sri Rudram, Purusha Suktam are sold as CDs. All sorts of people listen to them even without any devotion to them, like they listen to music albums.
salutations to all:
maneesha:
hope i didn't disappoint you by saying 'my mother-tongue is tamizh' :-). hope you also got to read the long comment i left last night.
ram (ramprax) told me you are currently at bangalore, is it? subramanian also said he is at bangalore. he appears to be a veteran in tamizh. if it's not too much of a problem for him, perhaps you could meet him regularly and learn the basics of the language. he may be able to guide you step-by-step. sounds ok to you?
I was just trying to play mischief. I expected the emotional Tamilian to come up in arms at me:)
-z
Subramanian R.
Thank you, dear Subramanian. We share the same view.
"This day,Easy indeed for us the Knowledge that can see the one-who,Even That day,was Beyond the Reach of Vishnu and Brahma -
Forever Timeless(without past,present and future) consciousness ,who has become the 21worlds."
Woww!! Thats beautiful! btw, which day was referred to, in this?
S.,
Come on - u cant expect Ravi or Subramanian to do the translation always... no wonder they start charging for their service! I think its high time u stop hiding urself under the "i am not capable" banner and present the translation urself. :)
Catching up with all comments only now.
Hmmm... yeah, in a way disappointed as it wud have been easier for u to learn tamil unlike me who wl have to literally know from scratch... I mostly end up feeling that I would rather do sadhana and get the import than learn the tough language (NOM). I feel vichara is easier than learning Tamil :) (Again, NOM).
Ravi and Subramanian,
Sirs! Thanks is a small word when compared to what you are doing. But since there is no other way to show gratitude, I would still thank you for all the translations you are doing!
Ravi,
As regards to S., "Particularly concerned that s,an ardent 'enquirer' has left behind his enquiry and waxing enthusiastic over learning Tamil and his new found love in kAraikAl ammaiyar."
well, he has now been exposed... who wud blv his assertions that he doesnt know bhakti and any other of his blabberings? I guess that why he is more open now :)
Anonynmous,
I have been trying to get my hands on conscious immortality book. How did u get the quote from the book? Do u, by any chance have copy of it?
maneesha,
" which day was referred to, in this?"
"only that day dawns to which we are awake'-Henry David Thoreau.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
maneesha:
you said "...u cant expect Ravi or Subramanian to do the translation always... no wonder they start charging for their service!..." -
hahaha... am sure, on the contrary, ravi & subramanian may find it a 'pleasure' to do the translations, and might even be 'thankful' to me for the opportunity :-))) my tamizh is rudimentary and though i may understand many words in those verses, yet i may not get the meaning of each & every word, hence, for accuracy, i place the burden on ravi/subramanian :-) sincerely request them not to mind & continue to offer their much needed help!
salutations to all:
maneesha:
you added "...As regards to S., well, he has now been exposed... who wud blv his assertions that he doesnt know bhakti and any other of his blabberings? I guess that why he is more open now :)..."
have you noticed when it comes to jnAna, we are extremely cautious, i.e., merely because you or i practice vichAra, that doesn't entitle me to be addressed as a jnAnI!, right? on the other hand, anybody & everybody is addressed as a 'bhakta' - all that he/she may have is some belief or may have chanted or recited 'ramaNA'/ 'nArAyaNA', or for a few seconds may have activated his/her lachrymal glands!! etc. etc., but curiously the title of a bhakta is foisted on him/her for such an elementary thing!! hence, i talk/blabber, & continue to do so, in the way i normally do :-) perhaps, am a little unfair here but for me the benchmark is rather too high (& the same) for both a bhakta & a jnAnI - the nAyanmArs with their not-of-this-world compositions or say a nAg mahashaya or a mastAn svamigaL (let alone bhagavAn or thAkur!) is/are my yardstick(s) for who is a bhakta or what bhakti is......
thus, it is simply beyond me to treat anybody as a bhakta that easily. just because i can quote a few beautiful verses or share a few moving passages or have shed a bunch of tears now & then means 'nothing' to me (from the bhakti view); if such petty things make me feel as a 'bhakta', guess i would prefer beheading myself than survive on such delusions. sorry, am nobody to judge anyone but i confess i may be unfair in not treating anybody in this blog as a bhakta, and treat their so-called bhakti as an inflated case of self-aggrandisement (or as i like to say 'sentimental nonsense' & that most often includes my own 'devotional excursions'!) :-(((. forget criticising bhakta or bhakti, i wouldn't even dare to raise my eyes above the ground-level & look face to face before a one as nAg mahashaya or mANikkavAsakar! the dust of their feet is enough to liberate me then & there.........
exposed or not, my 'tirades' against bhakta and his/her god shall continue... :-)))
[my Father (bhagavAn), for me, is the foremost jnAni & my Mother (thAkur), for me, is the ultimate bhakta] :-)
Friends,
A wonderful excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
It was night. The moon rose, flooding all the quarters with its silvery light. M. was walking
alone in the garden of the temple. On one side of the path stood the Panchavati, the bakulgrove,
the nahabat, and the Master's room, and on the other side flowed the Ganges,
reflecting millions of broken moons on its rippling surface.
M. said to himself: "Can one really see God? The Master says it is possible. He says that, if
one makes a little effort, then someone comes forward and shows the way. Well, I am
married. I have children. Can one realize God in spite of all that?"
M. reflected awhile and continued his soliloquy: "Surely one can. Otherwise, why should
the Master say so? Why shouldn't it be possible through the grace of God?
"Here is the world around me-the sun, moon, stars, living beings, and the twenty-four
cosmic principles. How did they come into existence? Who is their Creator? What am I to
Him? Life is indeed vain without this knowledge.
"Sri Ramakrishna is certainly the best of men. In all my life I have not seen another great
soul like him. He must have seen God. Otherwise, how could he talk with God day and
night, addressing Him so intimately as 'Mother'? Otherwise, how could he love God so
intimately? Such is his love for God that he forgets the outer world. He goes into samadhi
and remains like a lifeless thing. Again, in the ecstasy of that love, he laughs and cries and
dances and sings."
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
S.,
I totally understand what u mean as regards to the term Bhakta.
salutations to all:
from kAraikkAl ammaiyAr's aRpudha thiruvandhAdhi:
அன்றுந் திருவுருவங் காணாதே ஆட்பட்டேன்
இன்றுந் திருவுருவங் காண்கிலேன் - என்றுந்தான்
எவ்வுருவோன் உம்பிரான் என்பார்கட் கென்னுரைக்கேன்
எவ்வுருவோ நின்னுருவம் ஏது
[andRum thiruvuruvam kANAthE AtpattEn
indrum thiruvuruvam kANgilEn - enRumthAn
evvuruvOn umbirAn enpArkatku ennuraikkEn
evvuruvO ninnuruvam Edhu]
(then, i became your slave without seeing your form; now (too), i haven't seen your form; to those who ask me 'what is your lord's/ master's ever-present form?', what do i say?; indeed, what is your 'true' form?)
ravi/subramanian: please correct me if i have gone wrong anywhere in the translation above. thanks.
s/friends,
"but for me the benchmark is rather too high "
Benchmarks are of the mind.In fact,i used to feel the opposite-that the beautiful thing about Bhaktas is their complete love for each other and total absence of hierarchy or sense of sharp differentiation like 'jnani' or 'ajnani'.All are Bhaktas.I always enjoy this aspect in Bhajan groups where they will give each and everyone a turn to lead the singing and the others totally submit themselves to this lead.The lead singer may have a hoarse voice,his singing may be off key,yet this will not detract from the beauty of the singing.At the end of the Bhajan,it is a sheer joy to see how they vie with each other to take the dust of the feet of other devotees.An elder will take the dust of the feet of a rank younster.
There is no such thing as 'advanced','ultimate',etc-all are bhaktas of the Divine.
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER: "Why do I ask you to think of God and chant His name in solitude? Living in
the world day and night, one suffers from worries. Haven't you noticed brother killing
brother for a foot of land? The Sikhs said to me, 'The cause of all worry and confusion is
these three: land, woman, and money.'
"You are leading a householder's life. Why should you be afraid of the world? When Rama
said to Dasaratha that He was going to renounce the world, it worried His father, and the
king sought counsel of Vasishtha. Vasishtha said to Rama: 'Rama, why should You give up
the world? Reason with me; Is this world outside God? What is there to renounce and what
is there to accept? Nothing whatever exists but God. It is Brahman alone that appears as
Isvara, maya, living beings, and the universe.' "
BALARAM'S FATHER: "It is very difficult, sir."
MASTER: "The aspirant, while practising spiritual discipline, looks upon the world as a
'framework of illusion'. Again, after the attainment of Knowledge, the vision of God, this
very world becomes to him a 'mansion of mirth'.
"It is written in the books of the Vaishnavas: 'God can be attained through faith alone;
reasoning pushes Him far away.' Faith alone!
"What faith Krishnakishore had! At Vrindavan a low-caste man drew water for him from a
well. Krishnakishore said to him, 'Repeat the name of Siva.' After the man had repeated the
name of Siva, Krishnakishore unhesitatingly drank the water. He used to say, 'If a man
chants the name of God, does he need to spend money any more for the atonement of his
sins? How foolish!' He was amazed to see people worshipping God with the sacred tulsileaf
in order to get rid of their illnesses. At the bathing-ghat here he said to us, 'Please bless
me, that I may pass my days repeating Rama's holy name.' Whenever I went to his house he
would dance with joy at the sight of me. Rama said to Lakshmana, 'Brother, whenever you
find people singing and dancing in the ecstasy of divine love, know for certain that I am
there.' Chaitanya is an example of such ecstatic love. He laughed and wept and danced and
sang in divine ecstasy. He was an Incarnation. God incarnated Himself through Chaitanya."
Sri Ramakrishna sang a song describing the divine love of Chaitanya. Then Balaram's
father, Mani Mallick, Beni Pal, and several other devotees took leave of the Master.
-----------------------------------
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."-Jesus ,The Christ.
I have always found it interesting to see how the Great ones have 'verbatically' repeated the same thing-like in kAraikAl ammaiyar's-'anRu' 'inRu' and 'enRum'-then ,now,forever.
Namaskar.
s,
We will wait for R.subramanian to take a final call on this.You have indeed done a fine job in translating the verse and it is not at all easy(may be impossible!so better to learn Tamil!) to give the right flavour to the translation.
In these verses,the words 'anRu',followed 'inru' and onto 'enRum'-this way the TRUTH emerges-that which was,is and will be forever unknowable!How at all then to describe it to others who keep asking 'who or what is God?What is his form?can you prove his existence?,etc,etc.
This is the spirit of this verse.
Namaskar.
s,
the Translation of 'uruvam' in ordinary parlance is 'form';yet in this context,it may be taken as 'intrinsic nature'-Like how 'swarupa' is linked to'rupa'
Philosophers may take it to mean that God has no 'form' and that this depicts this nature of his-formlessness.
If this was the case,why at all will the Great ones travel to different Kshetras and visit temples and worship the Lord in different forms and names?
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Friday, December 21, 1883
In the morning the Master and M. were conversing alone under the bel-tree. The Master
told him many secrets of spiritual discipline, exhorting him to renounce "woman and gold".
He further said that the mind at times becomes one's guru.
After his midday meal the Master went to the Panchavati wearing a beautiful yellow robe.
Two or three Vaishnava monks were there, clad in the dress of their sect.
In the afternoon a monk belonging to the sect of Nanak arrived. He was a worshipper of the
formless God. Sri Ramakrishna asked him to meditate as well on God with form. The
Master said to him: "Dive deep; one does not get the precious gems by merely floating on
the surface. God is without form, no doubt; but He also has form. By meditating on God
with form one speedily acquires devotion; then one can meditate on the formless God. It is
like throwing a letter away, after learning its contents, and then setting out to follow its
instructions."
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Dear Maneesha,
"What is this day" - That day was
the day on which the ancient and wonderful lingam Arunachala took shape - it is the asterism of Ardra
in the month of Margazh [Dhanur]. The huge column which was beyond reach of Brahma [intellect] and Vishnu [ahankaram] on Kartika month, took shape as a Hill of rocks on Dhanur month, Ardra asterism day. Both Brahma and Vishnu worshipped the Lord who emerged in the form of effulgence is the day of Maha Sivaratri.
Kartika month Kartika asterism falls in November-December, Dhanur month Ardra asterism falls in December-January. Maha Sivaratri
[Night of Siva] falls in January-
February.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Estoerically that day is on which our ego is killed, and intellect subdued, and we see
the dawn once and for all. There is no night -darkness thereafter. But
puranically, it was the Ardra Day,
in Dhanur month, on which Brahma [intellect] and Vishnu [ego] were humbled by that Light. This story
is from Sri Arunachala Mahatmyam
and Sri Bhagavan has rendered it in Tamizh verses.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Karaikal Amma says that even in those days, without seeing your
form, I had been taken hold of by you and ruled by you. [AatkoLLuthal - is a peculiar word in Tamizh. There is no direct translation. One can say, that the Master has taken hold of the slave and ruled over him.] Even now as an ardent devotee, I am not able to see your form. If someone asks me: What is your Master's form, what can I say?
Sri Bhagavan says in Sri AAMM: 42-44: "Without any formal knowledge of scriptures, you attained God, became Siva,That itself. Make clear to me and say emphatically, O Arunachala, this is the Truth. Reality is nothing but the Self. This is what You wish to reveal, is it not, O Arunachala? How is it, O Arunachala, you told me 'Turn in and look within and ever seek the Self with the inner eye and you will see It?" Again, Sri Bhagavan says in Sri Arunachala Padigam, Verse 5: "Master, you brought me here by stealth and have till this day kept me at Your Feet. And Master, when people ask me, "What is Your nature?" You make me stand with head hung down, a speechless statue...."
All Jnanis speak the same truth, as if they were school boys copying from each other's note book!
Dear S.,
My immediately previous post is for
you and then to others.
AnRum - in the young innocent days.
Like Sri Bhagavan heard the name
Arunachalam from a guest to His house.
InRum - Today, after I have been taken hold of by you and ruled by you.
EnRum - For ever. Again and again, even if I am given rebirths.
Saint Tiru Navukkarasar says: "If
I could ever see your dancing eyebrows, kovvai fruit like lips, a small smile, the cool water dammed matted locks, coral like body and milky white vibhuti, ever
sweet raised leg, I desire again and again this birth of a human being in this world." Kunitta puruvamum, kovvai chevvayum, kumiN
sirippum, panitha sadaiyum, pavaLam pol meniyil paal venneeRum,
initha udaiya edutha nar padamum
kaaNapetRaal, manitha piRaviyum venduvathe im maanilathe....
Dear S., and Ravi and others,
Saint Manikkavachagar renders a different view. In KaNda Pathu,
Verse 3 [Tiruvachakam], he says:
"Even on those days, where I know
nothing about your nature [or form], you entered my Heart, and taking hold of my mind and set right that to rid of the impurities, and further again entered my body and filled it with your grace. O Lord of Tiruthuruthi! I, this lowly dog, finally saw your feet of Sivam, ever sweet, by going near
in the beautiful Thillai.
Perhaps in all these verses, 'seeing' should mean only 'being'.
Where is the question of seeing?
As Sri Bhagavan says in Verse 2 of Sri Arunachala Asthakam, there is no seer or seen but only You-I.
Uruvam, yes, can mean both form and also nature.
R.Subramanaian,
Wonderful verse of appar!More than others(the other 3 of the four),I enjoy appar the best.I also like his majestic 'yAm yArkkum kudi allOm,namanai anjOm naragaththil iDar paDOm'!!!-'We are not subjects of anybody;Do not fear yama(God of Death);in hell we WILL NOT suffer...."
Also his 'uRRar yAr uLaRO'
I once heard a Devotee recite this and was convinced that yama dare not approach anywhere in the vicinity!
I also enjoyed all your other posts,especially your description of the symbolism of the wood apple,how sri Bhagavan played with Rangan,et al.
Thanks very much.
Namaskar,
Dear Ravi,
Yes. After Saint Manikkavachagar,
I find Appar is most heart melting in his songs. Incidentally, it is said, that Siva took hold of Jnana
Samabandha, with milk, PAALAI KODUTHU AANDAN. With Appar, he gave colic pain, SOOLAI [COLIC PAIN] KODUTHU AANDAN. With Sundarar, he gave an old palmyra leaf [indicating that he is His life time slave], OLAI KODUTHU AANDAN. With Manikkavachagar, He gave His feet [pada diksha in Tiruperundurai], KAALAI KODUTHU AANDAN.
Appar was quite humble. He once bore the palanquin of Jnana Sambandhar. He came to Siva after he was past 60, [spending his time with Jains for long years] and lived upto 83 years. Like Karaikal Amma he wanted to see Kailash, if not cosmic dance. During the journey, he became a bundle of wounds, with all pains and bruises and finally Siva told him to dip in a tank, somewhere in North India, and get up at Tiruvaiyaru, where he had Kailash darsanam.
PURE EXPERIENCE
The Advaita doctrine is enunciated from a plane which ordinary people cannot aspire to for many more births to come. At present most of us are far, far below that stage. So we have absolutely no right to approach it, much less to sit in judgment over it.
It is impossible to convey a correct idea of what Advaita is, for it is neither a matter for words nor is it a mental concept. It is, on the other hand, pure experience which transcends all these. Suppose I do not know what sweetness is. Can you describe the sweetness in words sufficiently expressive to convey an idea of sweetness? Similarly, it is impossible to teach Advaita, for Advaita is beyond the grasp of the mind and the senses. Advaita cannot be learnt. It has to be directly experienced. The bliss of Brahman (i.e., God) is the biggest of all joys. It is beyond the experience of all worlds.
H. H. Sri Chandrasekhara Bharathi Mahaswamigal
Dear Clemens Vargas Ramos,
Yes. Advaita is a State, Anubhavam, Experience. All of us
are only making statements about it. It is an experience and no description will help one to attain it. But at the same time, one should not ever have a thinking that it is difficult to attain that State. Sri Bhagavan used to say that to say it is difficult to attain itself is an obstacle. We are all at best, moving towards It. That is all.
Suppose there is a discourse on
ULLadu Narpadu in a hall and your house is about 10 kms. away. You should start moving from your house. Even if you go in an opposite direction, by asking someone you will be shown the correct route. Without moving towards the hall, even if you stay in the upstairs of the hall, but does not move, then there is no way to reach it.
Chandrasekara Bharati [of Sringeri] is a great Jnani. His writings on the commentaries of Viveka Choodamani of Sri Sankara is considered the best in recent times.
Subramanian R.
There is a Guidance to a Foreigner by Him. This is moving - the teaching of H.H. and the letter of the french foreigner as well.
There is a Guidance to a Foreigner by Him. This is moving - the teaching of H.H. and the letter of the french foreigner as well.
You need to drop down the list box at the top of page to get the entries.
Dear Clemens Vargas Ramos,
I went through the jagadguru blog and read only Sri Chandrasekara Bharati's teachings under 6 or 7 headings. He has excellently explained what is real worship, meditation,etc., and also about keeping a guru as an ideal and the purity required for it. Thanks.
Ramos,
Ramos,
Truly a moving article.The Frenchman is obviously a great soul to have had this sort of a quest.
H H Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati is indeed a Great Jnani and wonderful teacher.I feel that this article should be shared here:
A Frenchman by name Riviera, wrote to His Holiness Sri Chandrasekhara Bharathi Mahaswamigal the following letter:
Addressed by:
Jean Riviera,
19, Rue Jouvenet Paris 16, France.
To:
The Dharmathipathi Vidyasagar Sri Sankaracharya Madathipathi.
My Venerable Guru,
Research of the truth and love of peace are my apologizing for sending this letter.
I am a Frenchman. My learning in English is not all right and I beg to apologise to my mistakes in their language. I do not know Hindi or Tamil.
If I take the liberty, Venerable Guru, to write directly to your Honour, it is because I believe in the superiority of Vedanta. I tried to find truth in occidental philosophies and I found nothing. We are in Europe, in Kali Yuga age, and there are here too much of excitement, egoism, selfishness, and materialism. From my boyhood, I try to find path of light. But I am alone in Europe: there are no light, no Guru, no pandit; Occidental teachers are intellectual, not spiritual men.
Happily, I found some translations in English of Hindu philosophy. I found Upanishads and Bhashya of Sri Sankaracharya; I tried to study Sanskrit by myself and I learned and studied these sacred books.
My aim is illumination. I know that, above all intellectual knowledges, there are Brahma-Vidya and pure Buddhi. But how to attain the path? I read on the sacred books that the way is meditation. But how is good meditation?
I take refuge in your honour to enlighten me. I believe in Vedanta and Divine teachings of Veda. I believe in Divine incarnation of Sri Sankaracharya. I believe firmly that Truth and Peace are in realization of Purusha, out from Maya and Avidya.
I have no guide on the hard path; I am alone and I implore your help. I know you have great experience and powers. I know that space and time are nothing to you on a certain plane. May I ask your honour to give me light and peace? What is the mantra or the word; who will give me the way to realize the teaching of the sacred books? If I was sure that I am linked with a spiritual center, I could ask for the help of my Guru.
I give over to the kind attention of your honour to care to see the best way to my spiritual assistance. I know that all will be always right at last. May I hope to have a letter from your Holiness. I beg your spiritual blessings and through your honour, I bow to the sacred feet of the Venerable Sri Sankaracharya.
continued...
Ramos/friends,
The Jagadguru"s reply
The reply from the Mutt contained the following pregnant passages :
"His Holiness is highly pleased to see what an amount of interest you take in Sankara in spite of the great barriers of language and distance. He is deeply touched by your spiritual earnestness.
"The pursuit of Vedantic truth leading to Atmic realization requires as a preliminary qualification in the seeker that he should have attained a certain degree of spiritual awakening as much as of intellectual acuteness which he may have acquired in his previous births. And as he advances he may meet with difficulties, which he can overcome only with the help of a Guru. It is not therefore possible to prescribe any one course suitable for all stages.
"The following directions would however be found most helpful to seekers who are not able readily to consult their Guru at each step and who are eager to make rapid progress. The steadying of one"s mind is a sine qua non for the realisation of the Vedantic goal. Keeping this in view the practices indicated below are advised.
"Firstly, physical: The avoidance of all stimulating food, drink, and the adoption as far as possible of the vegetarian diet.
"Secondly, moral: The daily exercise of universal love without distinction of any kind towards all beings and the actual rendering of helpful services to them in a spirit of selfless service.
"Thirdly, mental: The cultivation of a habit of retiring into one"s own self. Daily concentration of thought on some single object held in the highest reverence through which spiritual light is sought. Concentration should be practised whenever the mind is fresh and vigorous and it may be resorted to as often as convenient without getting tired. The mind should be guarded against falling asleep during the exercise. One may start with a few minutes practice and the period may be gradually increased.
"Fourthly, intellectual: Enquiry (vichara) should be made every day and the problem of truth deeply pondered over whenever they occur.
continued...
Ramos/Friends,
Vedanta in Europe
"His Holiness fully realizes your difficulties especially as you are struggling in an atmosphere surcharged with materialism. But Europe is bound to seek Vedantic light in due course. Only she has to persevere in her pursuit of truth in preference to things of a lower order. She is now steadfast in seeking truth in the world of science. She will be led to the search of truth in metaphysics also provided her thirst for knowledge continues.
"Should you adopt the practices indicated above as far as it is possible for you to do so and write to His Holiness again, He will most gladly give you such further help as may be possible in this direction".
It is interesting to learn that the gentlemen earnestly followed these directions and desired to have a picture of His Holiness or Sri Sankaracharya to fix his mind upon and have "a vivid object of daily contemplation." In reply thereto he was informed that His Holiness was highly pleased to learn that he was pursuing with much earnestness the practical as well as the theoretical courses indicated and the at His Holiness was much pleased to send for his use a picture of His own Guru which he himself constantly kept before Him.
He was cautioned, "This picture should be approached every day only when one is perfectly clean in body and perfectly clean in mind. Absolute purity in thought, in word and in deed, is demanded. The more steadfast and concentrated the devotion with which one prays for help seeking Atmic light, the more quickly does one receive the blessings of the Guru whose spiritual existence will always be felt whenever there is a sincere seeker. Kindly continue your efforts with this conviction."
-----------------------------------
What a blessing!
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
ravi/subramanian: many thanks for the clarifying the earlier translation.
clemens:
i have the highest reverence for sri chandrasEkhara bhAratI svAmigaL. yes, advaita perhaps is very very difficult but not for those who have come to bhagavAn/aruNAchalA :-))) self-effort is not connected to self-realisation through 'cause & effect', for the efforts one may exert to extricate oneself from the bondage of samsAra are both unreal in the advaitic sense (efforts as well as the bondage!). yet, despite the impossibility of 'reaching/attaining the self', bhagavAn emphasised effort in no uncertain terms.
indeed, if the truth of all truths be so utterly beyond us, and shall consume countless number of so-called births & deaths, it is not worth seeking to begin with! but as i said, we have come to bhagavAn (not by our will or wish), and we will be 'done with' in this very life :-))) as thAkur (sri rAmakrishNa) used to say so beautifully about the attitude a seeker must have (to paraphrase) - "what? i have taken the name of the Mother; how can any sin touch me anymore? how can i not be liberated"...
[look who's talking! - perhaps the man with the least 'faith' in this blog requesting others to have a faith that's as unshakeable as aruNAchalA! well, lessons can come from the most unexpected source! hahahahahaha]
after all, it takes a second for a matchstick to drive away centuries of darkness; or as thirunAvukkarasar (appar) says it:
விண்ணுற அடுக்கிய விறகின் வெவ்வழல்
உண்ணிய புகிலவை ஒன்றும் இல்லையாம்
பண்ணிய உலகினில் பயின்ற பாவத்தை
நண்ணி நின்று அறுப்பது நமச்சிவாயவே
[viNNuRa adukkiya viRagin vevvazhal
uNNiya pugilavai ondRum illaiyAm
paNNiya ulaginil payindRa pAvaththai
naNNi nindRu aRuppadhu namachivAyavE]
(just as it takes a tiny spark of fire to light up a heap of wood piled sky-high and reduce it to cinders, so shall taking refuge in the lord severe us from all our heaps of accumulated sins/demerits)
ravi/subramanian: please correct me if i have gone wrong anywhere in the translation above. thanks.
salutations to all:
ravi/subramanian: many thanks for clarifying the earlier translation (kAraikkAl ammaiyAr's verse). please do the name for the verses that i may post now & then :-)
wonderful wonderful verses. Thanks S., Ravi and Subramanina. Please continue with these!
Dear S.,
A good translation of Appar's song.
The mantra Namasivayam, if chanted
with devotion and faith, will on its
own come nearer to you - NaNNi ninRu ARuppathu - and severe or burn the heaps of papas, i.e sins. Namasivaya mantram, wearing rudraksha mala, and applying Vibhuti, are the three marks of a Siva devotee. Even if one or more of these are followed, Siva is sure to help. Appar says in another song: If someone is a low-caste fellow and eats cow's
flesh, even he is my god if he has got Vibuti on his forehead or Namasivaya in his lips. When someone complained that Major Chadwick was eating meat in his cottage, Sri Bhagavan sings this song! Later it was proved by some detective work of Annamalai Swami, that there was no meat in Chadwick's room. Sri Bhagavan smiled at the complainants. Dear
S/. I want you to give the very first Padigam of Appar in Tiruvadigai, to which he returns after his long years with Jains, with acute colic pain which could not be cured by Jains. There, he says: This pain like Yama sits inside my stomach and wrenches and crushes every nerve of my body. This was cured immediately when he applied Vibhuti, when his sister Thilakavadi gave him a fistful of Vibhuti.
As for Ravi's post, all the pujas, worships were not discouraged by Sri Bhagavan. When Sivaprakasam Pillai came with tonsured head, He chided saying, Acharam vidal anartham ahum.... But this was only for devotees who were not mature. For mature devotees, He suggested only Self Inquiry and no other sampradayam. He chided Muruganar when he was still performing annual ceremonies for his departed mother.
salutations to all:
all of you are aware of the poignant tale of kaNNappa nAyanAr. bhagavAn too couldn't control his tears while narrating the events!
nambiAndAr-nambi wrote this verse on kaNNappar in the thiruthondar thiruvandhAdhi, which later on became the primary basis for the expanded version in the periya purANam:
நிலத்தில் திகழ்திருக் காளத்தி யார்திரு நெற்றியின்மேல்
நலத்தில் பொழிதரு கண்ணிற் குருதிகண் டுள்நடுங்கி
வலத்தில் கடுங்கணை யால்தன் மலர்க்கண் இடந்தப்பினான்
குலத்திற் கிராதன்நம் கண்ணப்ப னாமென்று கூறுவரே
[nilathhil thikazh thirukALathhiyAr thiruneRRiyinmEl
nalathhil pozhitharu kaNNil kuruthikaNdu uLnadungi
valathhil kadungkaNaiyAl thanmalarkaN idanthappinAn
kulathhil kirAthan namkaNNapanAm endRu kUruvarE]
(on seeing blood gushing out of the eye of the lord, the eye which otherwise only showered blessings of goodness, who resides in that eminent place in this world (kALathhi or srIkAlahasti), he whose very being shivered, and plucked out his right eye with a sharp arrow for offering to our lord, he, who belonged to the family of hunters, is known as our kaNNappar)
avi/subramanian: please correct me if i have gone wrong anywhere in the translation above. thanks.
salutations to all:
subramanian:
you said "...S/. I want you to give the very first Padigam of Appar in Tiruvadigai, to which he returns after his long years with Jains, with acute colic pain which could not be cured by Jains..."
here is the very first verse appar svAmigaL sang:
கூற்றாயின வாறுவி லக்ககிலீர் கொடுமைபல செய்தன நானறியேன்
ஏற்றாய்டிக் கேஇர வும்பகலும் பிரியாது வணங்குவன் எப்பொழுதும்
தோற்றாதென் வயிற்றின் அகம்படியே குடரோடு துடக்கி முடக்கியிட
ஆற்றேன் அடியேன்அதி கைக்கெடில வீரட்டா னத்துறை அம்மானே
[kURRAyina vARu vilakka ilIr kodumaipala seithana nAn aRiyEn
ERRAy adikkE iravum pagalum piriyAthu vaNanguvan eppozhuthum
thORRathu envayiRRin agampadiyE
kudarOdu thudakki mudakkiyida
ARREn adiyEn athikaikkedila vIraTTAna thuRai ammAnE]
Translation of the padikam, pls!
It's been interesting but please no more translations!!
s/maneesha/friends,
"kURRAyina vARu vilakka ilIr kodumaipala seithana nAn aRiyEn
ERRAy adikkE iravum pagalum piriyAthu vaNanguvan eppozhuthum
thORRathu envayiRRin agampadiyE
kudarOdu thudakki mudakkiyida
ARREn adiyEn athikaikkedila vIraTTAna thuRai ammAnE"-appar(Holy father)
"sever me not like one cast unto death,
Many a Cruel deed have I done in my ignorance,
Forever,Night and day, inseperably will I worship Thy Feet, Oh Lord who rides the Bull,
Stealthily(the pain),as if (my) stomach with intenstines is crushed and twisted,
unbearable(for me),your slave;
Oh God of the Veerattaanam* of Adhikai kedilam"
*Veerattaanam - The eight Holy places where Lord Shiva destroyed the evil forces. In Thiruvadhikai He destroyed the Thripura.
-----------------------------------
kURRAm-means cruel death;Death is inevitable for all but cruel death is a result of Bad karma-Master TGN.He used to cite this Tirukkural,as a way for redemption:
kURRAm kuthithalum Koodum,noRRalin AttRal thalaipattavarkku.(Virtue-269)
"Even(cruel)Death can be Leap frogged,by the one who have achieved the strength of penance"
Those interested(and do not know Tamil) in the incomparable Tirukkural of Sage vaLLuvar may refer:
http://thirukkuralintamilwithexplanation.blogspot.com/2010/04/thirukural.html
Namaskar.
Ravi, It is not only Europe that is surcharged with materialism, so is India. It is changing so rapidly and dramatically it has left many shocked!
Anonymous,
I do not want to be drawn into any arguement.You are referring to an article that I have posted on the Frenchman devotee-that must have have happened decades ago.
Please understand that 'India' is not just a Geographical Reality.There was no India before the British occupied-just states ruled by Kings.
The True India is like what one of the Sages said-'yAdum oorey;yavarum kEleer'
"Any place is my place;Anyone is my kith and kin"
If there is one such Sage alive,at any point in time,this is it.
India(Bharata Desa) is the spirtual consciousness made manifest.One needs to have inner vision to perceive this.
India is bound to be the leader in all spheres of Life-material,Social,cultural,Spiritual-as Swami Vivekananda has already said-and the Transitions are always painful and murky.
Namaskar.
Anon / Ravi,
Life is a cycle and we are going round in circles. What we call history is our limited recent past.
The West came to India enamoured by material riches. Then India started and is going after the West's idea of modern life. But the West has realised its follies and is looking to India for spiritual solace. Lets hope India wakes up from its material stupor.
But all this is meaningless as we are mere passersby while my beloved Bhagavan Arunachala stands silent witness. HE has already decided what will happen while we play our parts like fools :-)
R p
Rp,
"while my beloved Bhagavan Arunachala stands silent witness."
Witness to what?What is 'Silent witness'?This is not a passive 'witness'.
In silence there is power and this power is the one that manifests as this universe and all Living Beings.
"Lets hope India wakes up from its material stupor"
India is you and me and anyone anywhere who is interested in spiritual verities(and this includes material prosperity!).We need to play the allotted 'Roles';without this to hope for some miracle to happen is superstition.
"Dharma protects those who protect Dharma"
Namaskar.
s/Friends,
The Jain leaders did not like the return of Thirunaavukkarasar(appar) to Saivism. They asked the Jain king of the country (Maheendhra Pallavan) to punish Thirunaavukkarasar. The king ordered to bring Thirunaavukkarasar to the court. But Thirunaanukkarasar reveling in the Glory of Lord Shiva refused to obey his order saying that he is the slave of the Almighty and not to anybody else.
This is one of the most Majestic retorts that I have come across.The Devotee is humble yet none can be as proud!Why not!
NAmArkkum kudiyallOm namanai anjOm Naragaththil idar padOm nadalai illOm
EemAppOm piniyariyOm panivOmallOm InbamE ennALum thunbamillai
ThAmArkkum kudiyallA thanmaiyAna Shankaran sanga ven kuzai oor kadhil
kOmArke nAm enrum meeLa ALAi koymmalar sEyvadi inaiyE kuruginOmey.
We are not subjects of anyone (king). We fear not Death. We wont suffer in Hell. We know no illness. We bow not to anybody else.Bliss alone and no sufferings,anyday. The Lord Shankara, who is not subject to anybody else,wearing the ring of sea shell in one ear; To that rich man we became the bonded slave, having taken shelter at his flowery feet.
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Saint Thyagayya also rejected the overture of the king who besseched him to come to court and sing;he came out with that wonderful composition-rAmabhakti sAmrAjyam-meaning he(He is possesing the empire of RAma bhakti!).
Namaskar.
Ravi and friends, Whats wrong with rp saying silent witness? I understand you want to add to it but really there's no need.It stands perfect on its own.
rp I don't really agree that the west is coming to India for spiritual solace. Perhaps a small number of people; most are into the corporate world, online shopping, reality TV and porn! If you look around you'll see that includes India.
There's no need to wax lyrical as unless one is enlightened, we are all touched by this crass globalisation.
hey jude,
Here is what Rp has said:
"The West came to India enamoured by material riches."
What you read it as is:
"rp I don't really agree that the west is coming to India for spiritual solace"
If we read what is said without our biases,we will be able to grasp what is being said.
Namaskar.
Dear S.,
The translation is quite fine. Siva is named Kudimiya Thevar in Sri Kalahasti. Kannappar is one of the oldest saints of Periya Puranam. The song says he is a Kirathakan, i.e from hunter's class, eating cooked flesh of animals. He had the original name of Thinnan, because of his strong body. He was not a Siva devotee right from young age. But other scriptures say that he was Arjuna in his previous birth and had done Siva Puja. Arjuna had special liking for his own beautiful eyes. This vasana had to go. So Siva made him to surrender his eyes, before liberation. He just attained liberation in 6 days of Siva bhakti. VaLLalar Ramalingam
Swamigal says that three saints of Periya Puranam were most liked by him. He feels sorry that he was not like any one of them. The first is Siru Thondar, who gave his son's body flesh to the brahmin who came as a guest. The second is Tiru Neelakanta Kuyavanar, the potter, who by his wife swearing not to touch him, did not touch her at all and both attained old age without issues. Siva came with a plan to unite them and also to get back their youth. The third is Kannappar.
Saint Manikkavachagar says in Tiruvachakam:
Kiratha vedamodu kinjuga vayavaL
Viravu kongai natradam patinthum... [Keerthi Tiru Ahaval - Lines 15-16]:
He came as a hunter, with Uma as the huntress and with the tip of her breasts marks - due to close hugging -on his chest, [he came to fight with Arjuna to fight for the pig that has been shot.
Dear S.,
Thank you. Tiru Adigai is near the present Cuddalore in Tamizh Nadu. The temple is close to cremation ground, it is called Virasthanam. There are 8 such temples in cremation grounds. Ashta Virasthanam. He says to Siva: This colic pain is like Yama. It remains in my stomach and simply wrenches my intestine and squeezes it and causes unbearable pain and misery. Please remove it. If you grace me with this boon, I shall never leave you and shall pray to you day and night.
This temple is near a small river Kedilam. I think it is called PalaRu today.
R.subramanaian,
"As for Ravi's post, all the pujas, worships were not discouraged by Sri Bhagavan"
Yes,indeed.I am reminded of a verse ThAyumAnavar's karunAkarak kadavuL:
பண்ணே னுனக்கான பூசையொரு வடிவிலே
பாவித் திறைஞ்சஆங்கே
பார்க்கின்ற மலரூடு நீயே யிருத்திஅப்
பனிமல ரெடுக்கமனமும்
நண்ணேன் அலாமலிரு கைதான் குவிக்கஎனில்
நாணும்என் னுளம்நிற்றிநீ
நான்கும்பி டும்டோ தரைக்கும்பி டாதலால்
நான்பூசை செய்யல் முறையோ
விண்ணேவி ணாதியாம் பூதமே நாதமே
வேதமே வேதாந்தமே
மேதக்க கேள்வியே கேள்வியாம் பூமிக்குள்
வித்தேஅ வித்தின் முளையே
கண்ணே கருத்தேஎன் எண்ணே எழுத்தே
கதிக்கான மோனவடிவே
கருதரிய சிற்சபையி லானந்த நிர்த்தமிடு
கருணா கரக்கடவுளே.
I worship Thee not in any form -
For, when I seek to gather
The flowers for Thine worship
I see Thee seated in the flower
And my heart dare not pluck it;
I balk to bring my palms together in salutation;Half salutation it is, for you are present in my Heart!
Am I fit to worship Thee?
Oh! Thou the Sky and the rest of elements!
Oh! Nadam! Oh! Vedam! Oh! Vedantam!
Oh! Fame Supreme!
Oh! The Seed in the Land of Fame!
Oh! The Germ of that Seed!
Oh! Apple of my eye! My fond thoughts!
Oh! My number and my letter!
Oh! Mauna Form that is my redemption!
Thou, the God of Compassion Fullness
That dances in rapture in the chit sabha
Defying description!
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Namaskar.
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