Thursday, May 12, 2011

Open Thread

The previous 'Open Thread' appear to be malfunctioning by posting each comment twice. I am starting a new one to see if that solves the problem.

I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.

If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.

5,000 comments:

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Ravi said...

David/R.Subramanian/Friends,

The 'Uchhishtam' in Srimad Bhagavatham continued....

srimad BhAgavatham ,Sloka 1.1.3

nigama kalpatarOr galitam phalam
shukamukhAt amrutadravasamyutam |
pibata bhAgavatam rasam Alayam
muhuraho rasikA: bhuvi bhAvukA:|| (3)

Verse meaning
Ye! Listeners! Great Connoisseurs!
Those endowed with a soft-heart, capable of understanding and grasping the real essence! Drink (enjoy) again and again the fruit of Bhagavatam which is juicy; which consists of nectarine droplets; which has descended in this world from the Kalpaka tree (wish yielding tree) in the form of the Vedas and which has slipped from the mouth of the divine Shuka until you attain liberation!

Discussion
Bhagavatam is the juicy fruit that is obtained from the tree of Vedas …not just any normal tree but the wish yielding tree – kalpataru. Normally when we have fruits there are parts of fruits that we tend to discard like the seeds ,skin etc…but it is said that the divine fruit of Srimad Bhagavatam is so juicy and seedless that you just have to drink it.It specifically says pibata -which means to drink .It goes to show that there is really no effort required on our part to even consume this fruit that is so tasty and full of nectarine droplets in the first place.
Interesting comparison is done in this sloka where sage Shuka has been compared to that of a parrot.It is more than justified doing so because just as a parrot repeats exactly what has been told to it without changing a word of it …this beautiful parrot Sage shuka has also reproduced Bhagavatam without missing out on anything.Moreover just as a fruit that has been pecked by a parrot is considered delicious there is no doubt that this fruit of Srimad bhagavatam that is pecked and tasted by Sage Shuka is the most delicious of all fruits in all the worlds. It is the holy uchishta of the great saint Sage Shuka.

When the 10th canto starts, Parikshit says to Sri Shuka, “Tvam mukham bhoja chutam harikathamrutham”, pre-empting a response to a question in his mind as to why Sri Shuka limited Krishna Katha to 2 slokas – whether it was because Sri Shuka thought that Parikshit should be sleepy, hungry and thirsty having sat through several days of listening to Sri Shuka’s Bhagavatam thus far? His preemptive response to Shuka was that he (Parikshit) was drinking the amrutham (hari katha) dripping from the mouth of Sri Shuka (mukham bhoja chutam) and that was why he wasn’t hungry, thirsty or sleepy. Those who drink amrutham (divine nectar) will not experience any of these three, isn’t it – such was this Hari Katha!

Bhagavatam contains everything – vedanta,yoga etc .you name it you have it ! So who then are the adhikaris for bhagavtam? It says it is none other than the Rasikas. Bhagvatam is full of Krishna katha and stories of great bhagavatas that it is to enjoyed by all the rasikas.

Bhuvi galitam- Srimad Bhagavatam has descended to the world out of the Lord’s limitless compassion to save all the souls drowning in this ocean of samsara."

I found the above well written post in another Blog and it perfectly matches what Sri Nochur had said.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan and Jnana Drishti:

Talks No. 28:

........
........

Maharshi: Ego's perfection is suddenly broken at a point and a want is felt giving rise to a desire to get something. When that want is cured by the fulfilment of the desire, the ego is happy and the original perfection is restored. Therefore happiness may be said to be our natural condition or nature. Pleasure and pain are relative and refer to our finite state, with progress by satisfaction of want. If relative progress is stopped and the soul merges into Brahman -- of the nature of perfect peace -- the soul ceases to have relative, temporary pleasure and enjoy perfect peace - Bliss. Hence Self Realization is Bliss. It is realizing the Self as the limitless spiritual eye (Jnana Drishti) and not clairvoyance; it is the highest self surrender. Samsara (the world cycle) is sorrow.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan on Jnanottara Bhakti:

Dr. Masalavala gave Sri Bhagavan a letter addressed to him by a friend of his. Sri Bhagavan perused it. Some portions of it were not cogent. With other portions there could be no quarrel. The letter said that all is contained in asti (sat), bhati (chit), priya (ananda), nam and rup, that the first three constitute Reality, and the rest the fleeting and unreal. That Jnana consists in seeing only the Reality and not the nam-rup, that the first three constitute aham and the next two constitute idam (this). Sri Bhagavan agreed and said, " "I" and 'This' between them, exhaust everything." The letter also said that seeing Brahman alone in everything and everywhere is Jnanottara Bhakti. With reference to this, Sri Bhagavan said: "This is a matter of mere words, whether you call the stage of seeing only Brahman, Jnanottara Bhakti or Bhakti-uttara-jnana.

"In reality, saying, 'We must see Brahman in everything and everywhere' is also not quite correct. Only that stage is final, where there is no seeing, where there is no time and space. There will be no seer, seeing, and an object to see. What exists then is only the Infinite Eye (Andhamila KaN).

.....

(Day by Day, 10.04.1946, morning.)

****

m said...

Raviji,


Yes, I agree with your post. Spending time in the presence of different teachers is beneficial. That said, as you mentioned, following a single path is more beneficial than practicing different things.

best,

Ravi said...

Friends,
Today is the 150th birth anniversary of Swami Vivekananda as per the Indian calendar.This is celebrated in the R K Mutt,Chennai with daylong programs ,Bhajans and Talks.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

In Bangalore Math also, programmes including Sangeeth must have taken place day long and feeding of all who visit the Math must have been done.

I could not attend due some some dhukkam in the family of my wife with his sister (76) passing away in Bangalore sometime last week. I attended the day on which her mortal remains were sent to crematorium. We have observe mourning till today. Tomorrow is the Subha sveegaaram.

I was remembering Swami Vivekananda's 125th birthday in Sri
Ramakrishna Math, Chennai. At that time I was in Chennai. After attending the function, I also purchased Swami Vivekananda's Complete Works in many volumes in paper backs, at a total price of Rs. 125.00, something unbelievable,
in today's cost and inflation.

****

Subramanian. R said...

SAkkiyar Koothu:

In Kerala the SAkkiyar Koothu, the dance dramas are quite famous. When I was working in Coimbatore, I attended one such programme in Iringalakuda, near Thrissur.

In one such dance drama, Kubera invites Siva for a dinner. Siva said that he would prefer to be alone, not attending any dinners but instead he would send Ganesa. Kubera took Ganesa reluctantly. The food was served to Ganesa and in a moment the food disappeared into the stomach of Ganesa! Then the remaining items like sweets, fruits and nuts came and all had gone the same way. Ganesa still was hungry and asked for more. He said he did not mind even in uncooked rice, dhal and vegetables. These were brought and all disappeared in a jiffy. Kubera then came to Siva and told Him about his predicament. Siva said coolly: Ganesa is not that type. Anyway let me come. He went with Kubera with a packet of puffed rice. He gave it to Ganesa and Ganesa said his hunger is gone and his stomach is full.

We are all like in this world. Nothing satisfies us. More wealth, more property, gold, silver, platinum, delicious food, sensual pleasures but no satisfaction. Finally somebody should give us puffed rice, that is Swarupa Jnanam. That is the sum and substance. That is the beatitude. That is the one which totally satisfies us without seeking anything more.

Like Puthana whose breast Krishna suckled and took all the 'worldly sins' from her body and mind and she became totally pure and satisfied crying, Enough Enough. Leave me alone!

Guru confers that Swarupa Jnanam. Going places and earning money for our worldly welfare does not satisfy us. Only Swarupa Jnanam makes us complete and we become peaceful.

Oor chuRRu uLam vidAthu unaik
kaNdu adangida
Un azhagaik kattu Arunachala!

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

You remember, sometime back, you asked about Swatma tirtham, waters of the Self and stated that such usage does not appear to be there in scriptures. This evening I was reading Sri Bhagavan's Atma Bodham, Tamizh verses. The last verse says:

........
........ ekkaLangum
aRRa nityananda atma tirthathil
thoi
uRRavanAr seikai onRinRi - maRRavan
YAvum aRinthonai engu niRainthu
Aramirthan
Avan enave aRi. (Verse 68)

Swami Nikhilanda gives the prose summary as:

He, who, renouncing all activities, worships in the sacred and stainless shrine* of Atman, which is independent of time, place, and distance; which is present everywhere; which is the destroyer of heat and cold and the other opposites; and which is the giver
of eternal happiness become all-knowing and all pervading and attains hereafter immortality.

In notes, Swami N. says: the word shrine in the Text also means holy waters (tirtha). Pilgrimages to holy tirthas and shrines have got their own disadvantages like distance, physical strain etc., But the worshippers of Atma shrine/tirtha is free from all these disadvantages and obstacles.

****

S. said...

salutations to all:

Subramanian/Others:
["...Only Swarupa Jnanam makes us complete and we become peaceful..."]

the following is not said with any intention to cause you any hurt. given that you read so much & quote so much, aren't you tired of just 'reading' & 'quoting' what AtmajnAna is? by now, aren't you desperate to know what that 'thing' itself is? nobody seems to have got "it" by continual reading & relentless quoting, but more importantly (not being said to dissuade you from doing what you do) don't you think too much reading & quoting ends up in cultivating the very 'i' that needs to be annihilated? (more so, if such reading & quoting is publicly displayed in such abundance!)... in my humble opinion, it's wonderful to share but it's also worth remembering what a wonderful person said long ago in the 'sermon on the mount' - "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

Ravi said...

Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The conversations and dialogues of Swami Vivekananda and a disciple:
Disciple: This is a great dilemma. If I am Brahman, why don't I always realise it?

Swamiji: In order to attain to that realisation in the conscious plane, some instrumentality is required. The mind is that instrument in us. But it is a non - intelligent substance. It only appears to be intelligent through the light of the Atman behind. Therefore the author of the Panchadashi (III.40) says: "[(Sanskrit)]-- the Shakti appears to be intelligent by the reflection of the intelligence of the Atman." Hence the mind also appears to us like an intelligent substance. Therefore it is certain that you won't be able to know the Atman, the Essence of Intelligence, through the mind. You have to go beyond the mind -- for only the Atman exists there -- there the object of knowledge becomes the same as the instrument of knowledge. The knower, knowledge, and the instrument of knowledge become one and the same. It is therefore that the Shruti says, "[(Sanskrit)]-- through what are you to know the Eternal Subject?" The real fact is that there is a state beyond the conscious plane, where there is no duality of the knower, knowledge, and the instrument of knowledge etc. When the mind is merged, that state is perceived. I say it is "perceived," because there is no other word to express that state. Language cannot express that state. Shankaracharya has styled it "Transcendent Perception" (Aparokshanubhuti). Even after that transcendent perception Avataras descend to the relative plane and give glimpses of that -- therefore it is said that the Vedas and other scriptures have originated from the perception of Seers. The case of ordinary Jivas is like that of the salt - doll which attempting to sound the depths of the ocean dissolved into it. Do you see? The sum and substance of it is -- you have only got to know that you are Eternal Brahman.

You are already that, only the intervention of a non - intelligent mind (which is called Maya in the scriptures) is hiding that knowledge. When the mind composed of subtle matter is quelled, the Atman is effulgent by Its own radiance. One proof of the fact that Maya or mind is an illusion is that the mind by itself is non - intelligent and of the nature of darkness; and it is the light of the Atman behind, that makes it appear as intelligent. When you will understand this, the mind will merge in the unbroken Ocean of Intelligence; then you will realise: "[(Sanskrit)]-- this Atman is Brahman."

Then Swamiji, addressing the disciple, said, "You feel sleepy, then go to sleep."

In the night the disciple had a wonderful dream, as a result of which he earnestly begged Swamiji's permission to worship him. Swamiji had to acquiesce, and after the ceremony was over he said to the disciple, "Well, your worship is finished, but Premananda will be in a rage at your sacrilegious act of worshipping my feet in the flower - tray meant for Shri Ramakrishna's worship." Before his words were finished, Swami Premananda came there, and Swamiji said to him, "See what a sacrilege he has committed! With the requisites of Shri Ramakrishna's worship, he has worshipped me!" Swami Premananda, smiling, said, "Well done! Are you and Shri Ramakrishna different?"-- hearing which the disciple felt at ease.

continued....

Ravi said...

Conversations of Swamiji continued....
The disciple is an orthodox Hindu. Not to speak of prohibited food, he does not even take food touched by another. Therefore Swamiji sometimes used to refer to him as "priest". Swamiji, while he was eating biscuits with his breakfast, said to Swami Sadananda, "Bring the priest in here." When the disciple came to Swamiji, he gave some portion of his food to him to eat. Finding the disciple accepting it without any demur, Swamiji said, "Do you know what you have eaten now? These are made from eggs." In reply, the disciple said, "Whatever may be in it, I have no need to know; taking this sacramental food from you, I have become immortal."(We were discussing uchhishtam and here we find the same theme surfacing-Ravi)

Thereupon Swamiji said, "I bless you that from this day all your egoism of caste, colour, high birth, religious merit and demerit, and all, may vanish for ever!".

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian,
"nityananda atma tirthathil
thoi"
Thanks.It does seem to be a later day usage.In the vedas and even in the Sandhya Vandanam the word 'Apah' is used.I do not recollect the word Tirtha appearing.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

m/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Different paths leading to God

Master:"You see how many opinions there are about God. Each opinion is a path. There are
innumerable opinions and innumerable paths leading to God.
"
BHAVANATH: "Then what should we do?"

Devotion to one's own path and respect for others'

MASTER: "You must stick to one path with all your strength. A man can reach the roof of
a house by stone stairs or a ladder or a rope-ladder or a rope or even by a bamboo pole. But
he cannot reach the roof if he sets foot now on one and now on another. He should firmly
follow one path. Likewise, in order to realize God a man must follow one path with all his
strength.
"But you must regard other views as so many paths leading to God. You should not feel
that your path is the only right path and that other paths are wrong. You mustn't bear malice
toward others.
"Well, to what path do I belong? Keshab Sen used to say to me: 'You belong to our path.
You are gradually accepting the ideal of the formless God.' Shashadhar says that I belong to
his path. Vijay, too, says that I belong to his―Vijay's― path."

continued....

Ravi said...

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued....
The tides in the Ganges

Sri Ramakrishna walked toward the Panchavati with M. and a few other devotees. It was
midday and time for the flood-tide in the Ganges.
They waited in the Panchavati to see the bore of the tide.
MASTER (to the devotees): "The ebb-tide and flood-tide are indeed amazing. But notice
one thing. Near the sea you see ebb-tide and flood-tide in a river, but far away from the sea
the river flows in one direction only. What does this mean? Try to apply its significance to
your spiritual life. Those who live very near God feel within them the currents of bhakti,
bhava, and the like. In the case of a few―the Isvarakotis, for instance―one sees even
mahabhava and prema
.
(To M.) "What is the explanation of the ebb-tide and flood-tide?"
M: "According to Western astronomy, they are due to the attraction of the sun and the
moon."
In order to explain it, M. drew figures on the earth and began to show the Master the
movement of the earth, the sun, and the moon.
The Master looked at the figures for a minute and said: "Stop, please! It gives me a
headache."
Presently the tide came up the Ganges. They heard the sound of the rushing water. The tide
struck the bank of the river and flowed toward the north. Sri Ramakrishna looked at it
intently and exclaimed like a child: "Look at that boat! I wonder what is going to happen to
it.
"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A few posts before R.Subramanaian had posted on Ecstacy,Shedding of tears,etc ,how these are precursors to Samadhi.
Yet Sri Ramakrishna shows to the devotees with illustrations and explains in his inimitable way how the Bhava and Mahabhava are experienced.

Elsewhere he asks 'M':"Will you take me in a carriage some day to Mati Seal's garden house at
Belgharia? When you throw puffed rice into the lake there, the fish come to the surface and
eat it. Ah! I feel so happy to see them sport in the water. That will awaken your spiritual
consciousness too. You will feel as if the fish of the human soul were playing in the Ocean
of Satchidananda
."

This is the most charming aspect of the Master that he was never satisfied with just 'Descriptions' or 'Statements'.He ensured that his devotees could atleast get some tangible hint of the Real thing.

What others may take pages of verbiage ,he will drive home by a few graphic images ,homecooked that even a child can understand.
It is just like attending powerpoint presentations.The Bad ones just read out the words along with the audience.In some of the presentations,I found that the presenter is also reading it for the first time and someone in the audience ends up enlightening the presenter!
On the other hand ,there are some who can present wonderfully with a lot of visual detail and very few words-Words that will etch themselves forever and images that will stick -and the subject matter easily understood and assimilated.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan on Sri Rama:

Talks No. 591:

........

Mr. Chopra, a Punjabi employed in Singapore, is on a visit here and raised a few questions.

Devotee: What is the efficacy of the name?

Sri Bhagavan read out the extract from the Vision magazine. It was a translation of Namdev's stanzas.

Devotee: How does the name help Realization?

Maharshi: The original name is always going on spontaneously without any effort on the part of the individual. The name is Aham - 'I'. But when it becomes manifest it manifests as ahamkara - the ego. The oral repetition of nama leads one to mental repetition which finally resolves itself into the eternal vibration.

Devotee: But these are all mental or physical.

Maharshi: the mind or the mouth cannot act without the Self. Tukaram, the great Maharashtrian Saint, used to remain in samadhi in the day and sing and dance at night, with large crowds of people. He always used to utter the name of Sri Rama. Once he was answering calls of nature and also saying Ram, Ram... An orthodox priest was shocked at the unholy mention of the sacred name and so reprimanded him and ordered him to be silent when he answered calls of nature. Tukaram said, 'All right!' and remained mute. But at once, there arose the name of Rama from every pore of Tukaram and the priest was
horrified by the din. He then prayed to Tukaram, "Restrictions are only for the common people and not for saints like you."

Devotee: It is said that Sri Ramakrishna saw life in the image of Kali which he worshipped. Can it be true?

Maharshi: The life was perceptible to Sri Ramakrishna and not to all. The vital force was due to himself. It was his own vital force which manifested as if it were outside and drew him in. Were the image full of life, it must have been found so by all. But everything is full of life. That is the fact. Many devotees have had the experiences similar to those of Sri Ramakrishna.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Sri Rama:

Talks No. 439:

Devotee: Rama asks: 'Brahman being Pure, how can Maya arise from Him and veil Him also? Vasishta replies: 'In pure mind associated with strong dispassion, this question will not arise.' Of course in advaita philosophy, there can be no place for Jiva, Isvara and Maya. Oneself sinking into the Self, the Vasanas will entirely disappear, leaving no room for such a question.

Maharshi: The answers will be according to the capacity of the seeker. It is said in the second chapter of Gita that no one is born or dies. But in the fourth chapter,
Sri Krishna says that numerous incarnations of His and Arjuna had taken place, all known to Him but not to Arjuna. Which of these statements is true? Both statements are true, but from the different standpoints. Now a question is raised: How can Jiva rise up from the Self? I must answer. Only know your Real Being, then you will not raise this question.

Why should a man consider himself separate? How was he before being born or how will he be after death? Why waste time in such discussions? What was your form in deep sleep? Why do you consider yourself as an individual?

Devotee: My form remains subtle in deep sleep.

Maharshi: As is the effect so is the cause. As is the tree so is its seed. The whole tree is contained in the seed which later manifests as the tree. The expanded tree must have a substratum which we call Maya. As a matter of fact, there is neither seed nor tree. There is only Being.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Sri Rama:

Talks No. 130:

Lakshman Brahmachari from Sri Ramakrishna Mission asked enquiry of "Who am I?" or of the 'I-thought' being itself a thought, how can it be destroyed in the process?

Maharshi: When Sita was asked who was her husband among the Rishis (Rama Himself being present there as a Rishi) in the forest by the wives of Rishis, she denied each one as he was pointed out to her, but simply hung down her head when Rama was pointed out. Her silence was eloquent.

Similarly, the Vedas also are eloquent in 'neti' -- 'neti' (not this -- not this) and then remain silent. Their silence is the Real State. This is the meaning of exposition by silence. When the source of the 'I-thought' is reached, it vanishes and what remains over is the Self.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Sri Rama:

Talks No. 647:
........
........

Devotee: Although we have heard it so often and so constantly yet we are unable to put the teaching into practice successfully. It must be due to weakness of mind. Is it possible that one's age is a bar?

Maharshi: The mind is commonly said to be strong if it can think furiously. But here the mind is strong if it is free from thoughts. The Yogis say that realization can be had only before the age of thirty. But not the Jnanis. For Jnana does not cease to exist with the age.

It is true that in the Yoga Vasishta, Vasishta says to Sri
Rama in the Vairagya Prakarana - "You have this dispassion in your youth. It is admirable." But he did not say that Jnana cannot be had in old age. There is nothing to prevent it in old age.

The Sadhak must remain as the Self. If he cannot do so, he must ascertain the true meaning of the 'I' and constantly revert to it whenever other thoughts arise. That is the practice.

Some say that one must know the 'tat' because the idea of the world constantly arises to deflect the mind. If the Reality behind it is first ascertained it will be found to be Brahman. The 'tvam' is understood later. It is the Jiva. Finally there will be Jiva-Brahmaikya (union of Jiva and Brahman).

****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,

Here is a wonderful song where The Great Saint nandanAr wonders how it might have been better to be born as a blade of grass!GopAlakrishna Bharati's NandanAr charitra kirtanai(The Opera -NandanAr):

"pullAi pirandAlum mirugAdi jananangaL pasiyAri magizhum anrO?
pUNDAi pirandAlum pulattiyargaL koNDu sila piNi tIrttu magizhvar anrO?
kallAi pirandAlum nallavargaL midi koNDu kATSi koDuttiDum anrO?
kazhudai uruvAga vandAlum ‘Ah’vena kattinAl kaikaNDa sakunam enbAr
ellAm illAmalE ippiravi tandu ennai Enga viTTu agala ninrAi
ettanai annaiyin ettanai tandaiyin ettanai piravi varumO?
allalenum mASaRutATkoLum deivamE, appanE tillAi vAzh adhipati
sanakAdi tudipati SivakAmi anbil urai naTanapatiyE "

Even if one were born as a lowly blade of grass , wouldn’t it be delighted to alleviate the hunger of creatures like deer and others?
Even if one were born as garlic(Garlic is avoided in cooked food,and is only used for its medicinal value-Ravi) , wouldn’t the siddhas rejoice using it to alleviate some maladies ?
Even if one were a stone , wouldn’t it offer good men a vision of the deity by allowing them to place their feet on it ?(In temples,people step on a stone to get a glimpse of the Deity-Ravi)
Even if one were to come in the form of a donkey and bray , people will say that it is a desired omen.(The Donkey's braying is considered a Good omen-Ravi)
You have given me this supposedly lofty human birth without any of these positive attributes(NandanAr is referring to his having been born in pariah caste-ravi), and have not only left me to languish as I pine/yearn to be useful (and for you as well), but have stood away from me.
How many more such births are there to come for me – through how many more mothers and fathers?

My Lord , the reigning resident of chidambaram , the god who admits me into his good grace after he exterminates the stains of privation that tarnish me!
The Lord who is worshiped by wise men like sanaka and others !
Oh master of dance who revels in the love of SivakAmi(PArvati)!

Namaskar.

shiba said...

Hello.

I am now translating 'Marital Garland of Letters' into Japanese which was translated by Prof.K.Swaminathan into English. Some verses of it are written in imperative mode and words such as 'please' are not added to them. So,I feel that way of writing is a little rude to Arunachara. The structure of these sentences are simple but I can't undertand nuance of these sentences, so it is difficult for me to translate them. Would you please give me some advices?

Example:
5.
Escape this blame. Why did you make me remember you? Who will let you go hereafter ?
7.
(a) Stay firmly in my mind, O Arunachala, so that it may
not elude you and wander elsewhere.
16.
As a magnet draws iron, draw me to yourself, O Arunachala: hold me fast, be one with me.
17.
Ocean of compassion manifesting as a mountain, have mercy on me, give me your grace, O Arunachala.
etc

thank you

Ravi said...

Shiba,
Your attempt to translate the Marital garland of letters is commendable.Yet,I would suggest that before one attempts this ,one must internalise the 'BhAvA'-BhAvA may be loosely translated as 'sentiment' but it is more than that.
Of all works of Sri Bhagavan,this is one of the toughest to translate,for the words in the original lend themselves to different meanings and all of them quite appropriate!A thinking mind will come out a cropper under such circumstances.
I am yet to come across a translation that does justice to the original.
Let us take the 4th verse(since you have started with the 5th,and the 5th flows from the 4th).I found this translation:
4."Was it for Thy pleasure or for my sake Thou didst win me? If now Thou turn me away, the world will blame Thee, Oh Arunachala!"
I do not have Professor Swaminathan 's translation .The above translation is what I found in one website.
The above is not at all there in the original.Yet it can be extrapolated and inferred to mean that.

The other straightforward translation is this:
"Is it for a Garland dids't thou win over me? If now Thou turn me away, the world will blame Thee, Oh Arunachala!"
It is customary for the couple to garland each other and enter into wedlock.
In verse 4,Sri Bhagavan is 'sounding a warning'(Obviously it cannot be nice sounding!Yet one can take liberties with the intimate ones and call them a Dog or Donkey as well!They will not take it amiss) to Arunachala.He is,as if saying to arunachala-'Look ,it is not just going through the motions-Just garlanding and all that outer pomp!That is marriage in the eyes of the world.it is not for that we are married.Or is it only for that?!!!Be it so,but take care.Be warned!Having done so,if now you set me aside,the world will blame you!Blackmailing of the Blackest variety!
Sri Bhagavan is thus taking liberties in reminding arunachala that their wedding is not a farce and that Arunachala better take note!
In the Original Tamil,Sri Bhagavan is using the word 'Are' ans saying Is it for the sake of 'Are' that you win over me?'Are' means Garland.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggest that you take one verse at a time and internalise the same-Feel it and let the devotional wave seize you and move you to tears.Only then you may be in a position to even attempt a translation.Otherwise,it will not make sense or worse still,one will go through the motions.

I have said the above not with a view to discourage you.You are admirably meticulous,but in these devotional works,even that quality is not sufficient.
You may post your views on each and every single verse here and we can take a look at it.Perhaps that may help.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Shiba,
"Is it for a Garland dids't thou win over me? If now Thou turn me away, the world will blame Thee, Oh Arunachala!"

I find that my above translation is also an extrapolation!
What that verse says is:
Is it for a Garland dids't thou win over me?If you remove (the garland),the world will blame thee.Oh arunachala!

I had copied the second part of it from the translation in that website!Hence the mistake.

Here the connotation also is that even if it be for the sake of garland that you won over me (married me),do not remove the Garland(Marital status)or else the world will blame thee!

What is implied is that it is not for the external Status and pomp that we are married!Our union is inseperable.

Namaskar.

David Godman said...

Shiba

The Japanese translator of Bhagavan's Collected Works lives in Tiruvannamalai. If you send me your email address, I can put you in touch with him. He has also translated Be As You Are and I Am That into Japanese, so he has a lot of experience.

hey jude said...

Ilie Cioara, I looked up his image and found an old Romanian man in a Trilby. Read some of his work seems authentic.



'insist in being with it as much as you can,



The mind is completely silent, we are attentive – a clear consciousness,



All meanings, boundaries disappear – us and the Infinite are “One”;



Practically, we have a new mind – always fresh.







Being in the pause – I become infinite!



It separates two worlds. I leave the limited world



And enter Boundlessness, through total melting;



The whole being is calm – a constant sparkle"

hey jude said...

More Ilie Cioara; 1916 -2004
How could this small shell, which is the human mind, embrace and comprehend the immensity of the ocean of Cosmic Energy?

Nevertheless, this audacious “ego” persistently affirms that he knows what God is, what is creative Love, immortality etc.

More so, it states and even offers solutions to tackling and solving the great problems that challenge humankind.

Yet this “ego” is not aware of one thing: that its own presence creates the whole tragedy and suffering on the entire surface of the Earth

shiba said...

To Ravi,

I admit that I am not fully competent to translate Marital Garland of Letters. But at least the process of translation make me understand teaching of Bhgavan more clearly.I can't ask you to check every verse, because it will take your much time and effort. That will surely make me undstand the meaning of verse cleary,though.

About verse 4 ,Prof.Swaminathan's translation is similar to that you posted, which may be that of Arthur Osborne. I prefer your translation to those two because it is faithful to the original.

To Mr.Godman,

My translation is only layman's work. So to ask some advises in this 'open thread' is quite enough for me. Please permit me to consult you and others in this thread sometimes. Thank you very much for your kind proposal.

thank you

Ravi said...

shiba,
I appreciate your earnestness.It is not a question of competency; Rather than be a scholar trying to decipher the words,one needs Devotion.Further to translate it from another translation would increase the order of difficulty.
To be a layman is the best attitude.
I recommend Sadhu Om's commentary and the translation by Michael James.We need to bear in mind that no translation can come anywhere near the orginal especially in a Hymn like this.
You may download it from this link:
http://www.happinessofbeing.com/Sri_Arunachala_Stuti_Panchakam.pdf

The verses are transliterated as well and you may get a feel of the sound of the original.It will help if you listen to a CD that has the chanting of this Hymn to go along with this.

In this version ,the 'Are' is taken as 'yAr' like in nAn yAr-Who am I) of 'ArukkA' is taken as 'YArukkA' which would mean 'For whom' as in the Translation that we saw in that verse 4.This is valid as well.
if 'Are' is taken as 'yAr',we have a repetition of the first phonetic 'yA'in verse 89 which goes:
Yâ/ruma/riyâ/den
Mati/yinai/marut/ti
Evar/kolai/kon/da
d' Arunâ/chalâ.

Unknown to anyone, stupefying me, who was it that ravished my soul, Oh Arunachala!

I find this translation of verse 28by Sri Sadhu Om more convincing than the others:
Sâp/pâ/dun/nai
Chârn/duna/vâ/yân
Sân/tamâyp/pô/van
Arunâ/chalâ

He translates this as:
O Arunachala, was it merely to eat food by depending
upon You that I came to You as a Sadhu (a religious
mendicant)? (Did I not come to You in order to satisfy my
spiritual hunger by attaining union with You?)
You may take a look at the way he translates this in that pdf.

Wish you all the Very Best.

Namaskar.

hey jude said...

Arthur Osborne's translation is very different to Sadhu Om.
Who is it that captures the bhava and essence of what Ramana is trying to convey to us? Is it possible he sings these amazing verses to himself? As he said, 'you cannot count without the number one.'
28.(a) Let me, thy prey surrender unto thee and be consumed and so have peace. Oh Arunachala!
(b) I came to feed on Thee, but Thou has fed on me; now there is peace, Oh Arunachala!
Verse 30 is totally ecstatic!

Ravi said...

Hey jude,
the key line in that verse is this:
Chârn/duna/vâ/yân

The word is 'unvA'?-Is it to eat?the next'yAn' means 'I' .
If we take the split of words as 'unavAy'-Food,there is no longer the 'yAn' left to interpret it this way,however ecstatic that may be?
Sri bhagavan has said that he had no mentation at the time when these verses came out-He left each and everyone to feel his way through it.
What sadhu Om is saying here is akin to-'man shall not live by bread alone but every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God'.Is this less ecstatic?It should not just be ecstatic ,it should be realistic for the devotee.It should be part of oneself as one is.
If it makes sense in the other way and realistic for the Devotee,one may take it that way as well.
Namaskar.

hey jude said...

Ravi, I do not see it as just realistic but someone blissed out on devotion.
As I read it in a simple straightforward way. He (Ramana) came to get something from Arunachala but instead the tables were turned and he instead was consumed, ego gone, annihilated, no more conflict. Peace.
I hope I'm on the right track?

Ravi said...

Hey jude,
Sri Bhagavan's ego was already consumed before he came to Arunachala.These Hymns should not be interpreted as his 'personal' experience.All Great Hymns are for the sake of Devotees;God assumes the form of devotee and prays for his grace.Ratiocination cannot explain this-It is not feigning.
When we chant these Hymns or listen to them,we approach these Hymns,refering to the 'I' as Ravi,hey jude,etc;Not as Sri Bhagavan.This is what Hymns are for-to deeply make them a part of ourselves.They give a voice to our deepest aspirations and voice it out better than what we ourselves can otherwise do.They also help us in this way to plumb our depths.By 'Realistic',I am referring to the Depths Plumbed.If the 'I' persists,I cannot claim that it has been consumed,however fascinated I am by that 'Idea'.
Namaskar.
Namaskar.

Ravi said...

hey jude,
"He (Ramana) came to get something from Arunachala"
The devotee does not want anything from God.He is more keen on giving himself.So,there is no surprise element of the Hunter getting hunted or the 'eater' getting 'eaten up',however fascinating that 'idea' may be.
Namaskar.

hey jude said...

Ravi, 'These Hymns should not be interpreted as his 'personal' experience.All Great Hymns are for the sake of Devotees."
I do agree that the great hymns are written for the devotees.
Yet you cannot say for sure that some of the descriptions do not stem from his own personal beatific experience.

Ravi said...

hey jude,
Indeed it contains his personal experiences and yet interestingly these are universal as well.
In verse 2,he is expressly referring to alaghu(mother)and Sundaram(Father),yet the beauty is that it is much more broadbased than that-Alaghu in Tamil and Sundaram in Sanskrit ,both mean Beauty without an iota of a difference!They are abhinnam in this sense as well.
What is deeply personal is universal.
More on this later.
Namaskar.

Ravi said...

hey jude/Friends,
Here is an Excerpt from Emerson's 'self Reliance':
"I read the other day some verses written by an eminent painter which were original and not conventional. The soul always hears an admonition in such lines, let the subject be what it may. The sentiment they instil is of more value than any thought they may contain. To believe your own thought, to believe that what is true for you in your private heart is true for all men, — that is genius. Speak your latent conviction, and it shall be the universal sense; for the inmost in due time becomes the outmost,—— and our first thought is rendered back to us by the trumpets of the Last Judgment. Familiar as the voice of the mind is to each, the highest merit we ascribe to Moses, Plato, and Milton is, that they set at naught books and traditions, and spoke not what men but what they thought. A man should learn to detect and watch that gleam of light which flashes across his mind from within, more than the lustre of the firmament of bards and sages. Yet he dismisses without notice his thought, because it is his. In every work of genius we recognize our own rejected thoughts: they come back to us with a certain alienated majesty. Great works of art have no more affecting lesson for us than this. They teach us to abide by our spontaneous impression with good-humored inflexibility then most when the whole cry of voices is on the other side. Else, to-morrow a stranger will say with masterly good sense precisely what we have thought and felt all the time, and we shall be forced to take with shame our own opinion from another"

Namaskar

Anonymous said...

If I allow you to
interpret
Ramana's words
for me,
who will be found
to interpret
Ramana's Smile?

Bill



































Ramana's Smile? "





~ Bill Lindley

Anonymous said...

The Ramana Maharshi Center for Learning, Bangalore publishes a monthly magazine - The Ramana Way.

In the latest issue, there is a wonderful story about D.K Pattamal (the grear Carnatic musician) and Sri Ramana. The article is by Smt. Pattamal's daughter-in-law.

I am giving in brief the incident.

Smt. Pattamal was born in the year 1919. Her parents and family members were great devotees of Sri Ramana. It seems, when she was about 45 days old, her parents went for a darshan of Sri Ramana and took her long.

When they reached Skandashram and showed the baby to Sri Ramana, he placed a few drops of honey on the baby's tongue. On tasting the sweet honey, the baby gurgled happily and Sri Ramana said "Aha, you are enjoying it, are you ?"

When Smt. Pattamal was about 10 years old, she went with her parents to have a darshan of the Kanchi Mahaswami, and the Mahaswami too blessed her.

Her whole family firmly believes it is because of these blessings, that she blossomed into such a great musician.

Smt. Pattamal herself, it seems, often used to say "Whatever honours, titles, awards I have won are of no significance. What really matters is that I was blessed by these great sages."

I have never come across this incident in any of the Ramana Literature. It is quite possible that many such incidents have simply gone unreported/unrecorded.

Thank you,
shiv

Ravi said...

Shiv,
I heard the story of D K PattammAL and Sri Bhagavan from Sage TGN.It seems that no one in her family before D K PattammAL was a musician.It seems that her parents just wanted a bottle or cup of Honey to be blessed by Sri Bhagavan.On being asked by him the reason,they told him that they believed if Sri Bhagavan blessed so,they would give the honey to the child and its voice would turn out sweet.Sri Bhagavan did better than that.He took a little honey in his finger and put it in the child's tongue.

D K Pattammal was not known for her sweet voice but the bhAva that she expressed in her singing was truly inimitable,especially she was unique in her rendering of the rAga Reeti gowla.She introduced and expanded Tamil compositions of MahA Kavi Subramania Bharati and others to the carnatic music repertoire.Her brother D K JayarAman who used to sing along with her eventually became an artist in his own right.D K PattamAl's Grand daughter is Nithyasree mahAdevan and is also a carnatic musician.

Namaskar.

S. said...

salutations to all:

hey jude:
["...Ramana says "When you truly feel this equal love for all, when your heart has expanded so much that it embraces the whole of creation..."]

bhagavAn's words are precious, so it will be helpful if you could quote the source of this statement! where & when did bhagavAn say this?

hey jude said...

Dear S and friends, I think this wonderful quote is from 'Ramana Maharshi, Path of self knowledge' by Arthur Osborne. I think it's on page 68.

Ravi said...

hey jude/s,
'Heart expanding' just does not sound like sri Bhagavan.Wonder whether Arthur Osborne reconstructed something said by Bhagavan.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear All,

I have come back from Arunachala after 3 days's visit. About the visit later.

Reg: AAMM:

1. It was written after He realized the Self. The primary purpose of the song is to make His sadhu devotees to sing a specific song and go and obtain bhiksha so that the donors would know who had come.

2. Sri Bhagavan wrote it for the sake of all devotees and not for Himself. He has already attained the goal. Whenever someone asked about Srimad Bhagavad Gita or Yoga Vasishta, He used to say: These are written for you only not merely for Arjuna and Rama. The same is here true too.

3. Aruhur Osbrone himself found it quite difficult to translate AAMM and he has given two or three meanings for some verses. Because any one of the interpretations can
be true.

4. Yes. Bhava is most important. I am able to feel this bhava when I listen to the musically rendered
AAMM by one Mr. Prabhakar and company. This CD is available in the Asramam.

****

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Master:"If a devotee prays to God with real longing, God cannot help revealing Himself to him.
"The other day I told you the meaning of bhakti. It is to adore God with body, mind, and
words
. 'With body' means to serve and worship God with one's hands, go to holy places
with one's feet, hear the chanting of the name and glories of God with one's ears, and
behold the divine image with one's eyes. 'With mind' means to contemplate and meditate on
God constantly and to remember and think of His lila. 'With words' means to sing hymns to
Him and chant His name and glories
.
"Devotion as described by Narada is suited to the Kaliyuga. It means to chant constantly
the name and glories of God. Let those who have no leisure worship God at least morning
and evening by whole-heartedly chanting His name and clapping their hands.
"The 'ego of a devotee' begets no pride; it does not create ignorance. On the contrary it
helps one realize God. This ego is no more like the ordinary ego than hinche is like
ordinary greens. One generally becomes indisposed by eating greens; but hinche removes
excessive bile; it does one good. Sugar candy is not like ordinary sweets. Sweets are
generally harmful, but sugar candy removes acidity.
"Nishtha leads to bhakti; bhakti, when mature, becomes bhava; bhava, when concentrated,
becomes mahabhava; and last of all is prema. Prema is like a cord: by prema God is bound
to the devotee; He can no longer run away
. An ordinary man can at best achieve bhava.
None but an Isvarakoti attains mahabhava and prema. Chaitanyadeva attained them.
"What is the meaning of jnanayoga? It is the path by which a man can realize the true
nature of his own Self; it is the awareness that Brahman alone is his true nature. Prahlada
sometimes was aware of his identity with Brahman. And sometimes he would see that God
was one and he another; at such times he would remain in the mood of bhakti.
"Hanuman said, 'O Rama, sometimes I find that You are the whole and I a part, sometimes
that You are the Master and I Your servant; but, O Rama, when I have the Knowledge of
Reality, I see that You are I and I am You.'"
GIRISH: "Ah!"

Subramanian. R said...

Touching the Hill of Fire:

continues...

Another new book is the volume II of Smt. Kanakammal's English translation of the Collected Works, Translations, of all works, other than Devi Kalottaram & Jnanachara Vichara Patalam.

Sri Bhagavan's devotees have also come out with a new book Ramana's Arunachala, covering the Hill, its origin, the saints who have sung about it, the Temple, various shrines around the giri valam route and epigraphic details and inscriptions in the Temple and also the kings and chieftains who had contributed for the Temple building and maintenance and pujas.

We started around 6 am. on the third day, Thursday to the Temple. Despite ourselves being quite early
to the temple, we were surprised to see at least a hundred of them, inside! These were mostly Mel Maravattur and Sabarimala Bhaktas. However, the queue was moving quite fast, we had a good darsan of Annamalaiyar and Unnamulai Amma and could come out of the temple after having darsan of other shrines by 8 am.

We also visited Seshadri Swamigal Asramam and Samadhi on that morning.

On Wednesday, on the second day, we went around the Hill, partly by car and partly by foot, (Sri Bhagavan and I are at least same in one aspect, the knee pain; but Sri Bhagavan did not hesitate to walk around the Hill whereas I did.)

During girivalam, I used to meet an old priest, in Isanya Jnana Desikar Math. He was appearing quite ill
with severe cataract problem in the eyes. During Sept 2011 visit, he was sitting in a corner with his assistant doing the Arti. It was a pleasant surprise to see him standing and walking, with his eyesight restored due to successful IOL surgery. The Kovilur Math had met all the expenses. He said emotionally: "Siva has thought it fit to restore my eyes for this Maha Deepam, what else can I say?
Everything is Sivamayam."

In the Temple, I could see specifically this time, on a board, near Chandieesa Nayanar Shrine to the right of Arunachaleswara, the famous song of Sekkizhar:

Andar pirAnum thoNdar thamakku adhibanAkki anaithu nAm
UNda kalamum uduppanavum chooduvana
vum unakkAhach
ChandeesanumAm padam thanthom
enRangavar poRRada mudikkuth
ThuNda madhi cher sadaikonRai
mAlai vAngich choottinAr.

*

NAdum nagaramum naRRik koyilum
Thedithirinthu sivaperumAn enRu
PAdumin pAdip paNimin paNintha pin
Koodiya nenjathuk koyilAk koLvane.
(Tirumandiram, 1455)

I shall go to various lands and towns and temples, searching for Siva; I shall sing His glory and submit myself, and when He reveals Himself in my Heart as His temple, I shall remain with Him for ever.

*

Sri Ramanarpanamasthu.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Touching the Hill of Fire:
Arunachala Darsanam 17,18,19 Jan.
2012:

(Where did the Part I go, after typing and sending? A repeat...)

It was a pleasant journey. Though request was made in Sept 2011, permission to stay in the Asramam guest house was given only for the above dates, due to sparse accommodation, on account of extensive rebuilding in Morvi Compound. The road from Krishnagiri to Tiruvannamalai was as expected quite bad, the 105 kms took 3 hrs.

We had pleasant exchanges with the many known faces, Mr. Kothari, Lucy Ma's daughter, J. Jayaraman, the Librarian and his aged father, ever smiling office staff and kitchen workers. The Arti in Mother's temple and Sri Ramaneswara Mahalingam Samadhi was a solemn time, giving thanks to Sri Bhagavan having made one more darsan possible for us. The town presented a two fold weather, quite chill in the mornings up to 8 am and the sun beating the earth up to 6 pm thereafter.

We also had darshan of Seshadri Swamigal Samadhi Shrine.

A couple of new books has been out. The first is Sundaram Swami's reprint of Annamalai Swami's diary notes, under the new title 'Sri Bhagqavanum NAnum.' The information there in the book states that after
Annamalai Swami's Mahasamadhi, there were quarrels among the direct devotees over the Samadhi and the building surrounding it and the competent Trustees made over the properties to Sri Ramanasramam, to avoid further quarrels. The devotees however had founded Sri Sadguru Annmalai Swamigal Spiritual Trust to spread the message of Swami and to conduct satsanghs, at 10/12 Mahasakti Nagar, near the Asramam. The book has come out with the efforts of Sundaram Swami. The book is also sold at Sri Ramansramam.


Sri Bhagavan's devotees have brought a revised edition of Ramana's Arunachala, a detailed English version about the Temple, epigraphy, inscriptions about the Temple by kings and chieftains. Also about the saints and devotees who have sung about the Hill of Fire.

The Asramam was somewhat crowded though those were non festival days. Mainly Ayyappa devotees and Mel Maruvathur devotees and devotees from Chennai extending their pongal holidays.

There is a new Sri Dakshinamurti
shrine at the far end, after the kitchen stores buildings. This is a
nice idol of Sri Dakshinamurti, about 3 feet height. Since the buildings around it are not yet complete, we could have only a darsan from the side. This is on a straight line from the Asramam compound gate, at the far end.

The afternoon book reading was from Sri Ramana Vachanamrutam, (Talks in Tamizh) and David Godman's Guru Vachaka Kovai in English. The evening Parayana was Upadesa Undiyar and Ulladu Narpadu on Tuesday and Devi Kalottaram on Wednesday.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Touching the Hill of Fire:
Arunachala Darsanam - 17,18, and 19, January 2012:

A couple of things about Tiruvannamalai:

1. There is a bookshop inside the Seshadri Swamigal Ashram. This bookshop is under new management. There are a large number of Tamizh books, almost all of them are Bhakti literature. The shop is as rich as Giri Trading Company, Mylapore, Chennai. It was a pleasant surprise to see some books about which I have not even heard before. 1. The Bhagavatam has been rendered in Tamizh verses, about 5000 verses in all by one Chevvai Chudavar. I do not know what this classical Tamizh name means. The verses cover all the skandams of Srimad Bhagavatam in verses. 2. Ramalinga Swamigal's verses called Tiru Arut Pa, which are classified under 6 books (Tirumurais) are also available. The first 5 books in one bulk volume and the sixth book in another volume. 3. All Tevaram and Tiruvachakam/Tiru Chitrambala Kovaiyar songs with meaning have come in about 4 or 5 volumes. 4. NAlAyira Divya Prabandham, Azhwars' songs in all about 4000 verses have also come with meaning in 3 volumes.

2. Sri Ramanopadesa Noonmalai of Sri Sadhu Om, which had earlier been available in only in Tamizh has now come as new edition with brief (!) meanings by Sri Sadhu Om and Michael James.

3. About the Asramam: In the Nirvana Room, the earlier large photograph of Sri Bhagavan with a huge bandage on His left arm (the photo taken about 10 days before His Mahanirvana, has been replaced by a large size photograph where He is lying in the couch with legs stretched, the photo being pertaining to a period before the terminal cancer.

4. The Asramam has also prohibited visitors/devotees wearing colored dhotis (lungis) other than ochre robes (for sannyasis) and special black dhotis for Ayyappa bhaktas who are in vratham and red saris/dhotis for Mel Maruvathur devotees. They have also prohibited sleeveless banyans and visitors coming with bare chest without the upper cloth.

****

hey jude said...

Subramanian, New book on Annamalai Swami ....'the book has come out with the efforts of Sundaram Swami. The book is also sold at Sri Ramansramam'
Is the above mentioned book in English?

hema ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Master:"The spiritual wisdom of worldly
people is seen only on rare occasions. It is like the flame of a candle. No, it is rather like a
single ray of the sun passing through a chink in a wall. Worldly people chant the name of
God, but there is no zeal behind it. It is like children's swearing by God, having learnt the
word from the quarrels of their aunts.
"Worldly people have no grit. If they succeed in an undertaking, it is all right, but if they
don't succeed, it scarcely bothers them at all. When they need water they begin to dig a
well. But as soon as they strike a stone they give up digging there and begin at another
place. Perhaps they come to a bed of sand. Finding nothing but sand, they give that place up
too. How can they succeed in getting water unless they continue to dig persistently where
they started?
"Man reaps the harvest of his own past actions. Hence you read in the song:
O Mother, I have no one else to blame:
Alas! I sink in the well these very hands have dug.
'I' and 'mine'-that is ignorance. By discriminating you will realize that what you call 'I' is
really nothing but Atman. Reason it out. Are you the body or the flesh or something else?
At the end you will know that you are none of these. You are free from attributes. Then you
will realize that you have never been the doer of any action, that you have been free from
virtue and faults alike, that you are beyond righteousness and unrighteousness.
From ignorance a man says, 'This is gold and this is brass.' But a man of Knowledge says,
'It is all gold.'
Reasoning stops when one sees God. But there are instances of people who have realized
God and who still continue to reason. Again, there are people who, even after having seen
God, chant His name with devotion and sing His glories
.
How long does a child cry? So long as it is not sucking at its mother's breast. As soon as it
is nursed it stops crying. Then the child feels only joy. Joyously it drinks the milk from its
mother's breast. But it is also true that, while drinking, the child sometimes plays and
laughs
.
It is God alone who has become everything. But in man He manifests Himself the most.
God is directly present in the man who has the pure heart of a child and who laughs and
cries and dances and sings in divine ecstasy."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hymns of the Great ones are such outpourings.There is no feigning of the mind .
Namaskar.

David Godman said...

Hey Jude

It's a Tamil edition of Final Talks.

Subramanian. R said...

F.H. HUMPHREYS - THE FIRST WESTERN
SEEKER COMING TO SRI BHAGAVAN:-

Sri Bhagavan's purpose was fulfilled through His chosen men. This is not to say that He made a selection nor is it to say that His grace was given more to some and less to others. But it was all part of the divine plan. We say "chosen" for we can see in retrospect how they were instruments for spreading His message. What is His purpose and what is His message: Sivakka Chinmayam Thazhaika... He says in Sri Arunachala Navamani MAlai.

Undoubtedly one such person was F.H. Humphreys who came to serve as an official in the Indian Police Service but has become a household name among Sri Bhagavan devotees and seekers of truth. Is there any basis for this assertion? Yes. Firstly, from the word 'go', as soon as he landed in Bombay, he was led on to Sri Bhagavan, as it were. While convalescing in a Bombay hospital he had a clear vision of Narasimhayya who was to be his Telugu teacher. Narasimhayya was a disciple of Ganapati Muni and he regarded Sri Bhagavan as God incarnate. It is difficult to over-
emphasize the importance of this, for Humphreys was out in search of a 'Master'. His keenness to find one quickly could well have led him astray to the lesser gods. But thanks to Sri Bhagavan's protection from the beginning, through that vision at Bombay, as soon as he landed in India, he was caught in the tiger's grip of Sadguru Ramana. Soon after he started his lessons in Telugu at Vellore, Humphreys had his second vision, this time of Ganapati Muni. But for this, it would have been difficult for a person like Humphreys, with a strong occult bent of mind, who on his own claim was a member of a mythic society in his previous life, to have remained in the Ramana fold. For slipping away is so easy and staying on course so tough. The culmination of his vision came soon enough. It happened towards the end of 1911. During one of his Telugu classes, he asked for a paper and pencil and drew a picture of a mountain cave with a Sage standing at its entrance, thus giving a picturesque description of a dream vision he had the previous night. It was of Sri Bhagavan standing in front of the Virupaksha Cave. These successive visions, the first one of his Telugu teacher who was a disciple of the Muni, then that of the Muni and finally that of Sri Bhagavan are clear enough evidence that he was Sri Bhagavan's man from the very beginning.

What other indication do we have of Humphreys being one of the inner circle? Whatever he learnt from Sri Bhagavan was in the presence of persons who helped recording it. Was it not work of the divine hand for preserving the conversations for posterity? His first visit was in November 1911, in the company of Narasimhayya and the Muni, who had prepared him for it by emphasizing, 'It is not I but the Maharshi who does all these things.' Just prior to the visit the Muni counselled silent preparedness, 'Hush! We must be quiet now. We are drawing near Him.' Narasimhayya has recorded what happened in this interview. Many important and crucial points for Sadhana emerged, as we shall see. On his second visit, soon thereafter, A.S. Krishnaswami Aiyar (then a District Munsiff) was present and acted as an interpreter. The record of Humphreys' third visit, which in many ways is the best from the seeker's point of view, is available. We have Humphreys' own reporting of it to Felicia Scatcherd who in turn published it in the International Psychic Gazette. Why should every conversation be recorded contemporaneously and also be published, unless Humphreys had a special place in Sri Bhagavan's scheme of things?

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

F.H. HUMPHREYS - THE FIRST WESTERN SEEKER:

continues...

Also of importance is the fact that from the beginning Humphreys felt he was a 'disciple' of Sri Bhagavan. To quote him, "In a few sentences of broken English and in Telugu, He conveyed worlds of meaning and taught me direct, and made me His chela." In the spiritual field where the attitude is so important for learning, the reverential and fresh approach of Humphreys has given us much material of great value. Humphreys was barely twenty one at the time
he came to Sri Bhagavan. So we notice an uninhibited spontaneity in his interviews with Sri Bhagavan, and a special charm in the way of Sri Bhagavan clarified his doubts.

Some points stand out such as Sri
Bhagavan's remarks: "Help yourself, you will help the world." "No master ever cared a rap for occult powers for he has no need for them in this daily life." "From now onward, let your whole thought in meditation be not on the act of seeing on what you see, but immovably on That which sees." "The Master cannot help being perpetually in the state of Being. He can use the mind, body and intellect without falling back into the delusion of separate consciousness." "How can you best worship God? Why, by not trying to worship Him but giving up your whole self to Him." "You say 'I','I' want to know." Tell me who is that 'I'. Know first that 'I' and then you will know everything." The teaching is always clear and precise, for Humphreys was ripe and ready to receive it.

We also owe to Humphreys some very beautiful descriptions of Sri Bhagavan in such choice expressions. "For half an hour I looked Him in the eyes, which never changed their expression of deep contemplation.....I could only feel that His body was not the man. He was merely a sitting, motionless corpse from which God was radiating terrifically...You can imagine nothing more beautiful than His smile."

The contact of Humphreys with Sri Bhagavan was apparently confined to these extraordinary visits. But one does not have to remain long with or be in constant touch with a Sadguru. We have the case of Satyamangalam Venkataramana Iyer, who visited Sri Bhagavan only once in Virupaksha Cave, remained with Him for four days and he has sung his enchanting and endearing Sri Ramana Stuti Panchakam (this is chanted on every Saturday evening) whose fascination grows with every reading or singing of it. We have also the case of an American visitor recorded by T.P. Ramachandra Iyer. He came all the way from the USA and remained with Sri Bhagavan only for a few hours,
but was fully satisfied that the purpose of his visit had been served. The Guru knows all the needs and the devotee is taken care of appropriately. This sensitivity is evident in Humphreys' second visit. He had come by a motorbike a long distance from Vellore and was both thirsty and hungry. Sri Bhagavan saw to it that he first had coconut water to quench his thirst, and made him eat some food, fruit etc., Knowing his difficulty in eating with his hands, He also gave him a coconut spoon to eat with! He kept talking to him and blessed Himphreys with His benign smile. This done, He cleared all his doubts in spiritual matters.

It is said that Humphreys retired prematurely from police service and became a monk in later years. These changes were only in his avocation, from the onlooker's point of view. For one can see that Sri Bhagavan had made him whole by His lucid explanation of what true religious spirit is, and what true attainment is. There is little doubt that Sri Bhagavan had blessed Humphreys with it.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Siddhis:

We have seen that Mr. F.H. Humphreys was initially interested in siddhis, occult powers and how Sri Bhagavan directed him to the correct path.

Sri Bhagavan's Ulladu Narpadu, Verse 35 describes siddhis as mere dreams and one should wake up from such dreams.

Devi Kalottaram verses also speak of siddhis in two verses, 80 and 81.

madan teru mei
JnanathinAleye nan mukti avvaNNam
Enaiya siddhi payan indrenum -
ooamAm
Bhogathun siddhi yinum poondamayal
vEndiduvar
Sadhakarai uLLavarhal thAm

The state of liberation hailed high is attainable only by the siddhi of Jnana that destroys ignorance and is not attainable by other siddhis or thaumaturgic powers. Seekers of Truth, practicing the path of Jnana, though aware of this fact, are often deluded by a strong desire for siddhis and worldly enjoyments, full of blemishes and strives for them.

Excepting Jnana, nothing can help one attain liberation. Siddhis acquired and practiced, even if they be countless, cannot ensure the supreme release. The hankering after siddhis by one enticed by the lure of them, clouds one's vision of the truth of their fruitlessness in securing the attainment of Jnana. Siddhis are also time bound and after a lapse of time, these powers hoodwinking him, desert him, leaving him a pittha (a madman) and not a siddhi.

Instead of remaining as All, the Whole, the Infinite Awareness, desiring worthless siddhis is like begging for stale gruel from the Lord of unbounded munificence, who is prepared to offer anything that is asked for including Himself.

ALavandar Stora Ratnam also says:
"In high Heaven where nectar flows in plenty, who would ask for old sour gruel? It is like the bee seeking the flower of nettle when the lotus, full of honey, is nearby."

If a seeker after mukti marga were to distract himself with miscellaneous siddhis, half way through his inward journey, his ego and bondage, the very things he set out to annihilate, gaining growth and strength, bar the door to eternity.

Siddhis convert the mind into an agitated slurry and the bliss of Release or Shanti attained on the stillness of mind recedes as one beyond reach. While the zeal and rigor of the endeavors demanded for the acquisition of siddhis is manifold more than what worldly actions require, how can there be scope for peace in the pursuit of them?

Sri Ramana Gita, verses 11 and 12 of Chapter V also explain this.

See also Talks No. 616, in this context.

Sri Bhagavan says in His assorted verse (Sri Rama Gita):
Composed on 26.01.1944:

"Oh my son! A conjuror, himself without getting deluded, deludes the men of the world by the illusion he creates. But the siddha first delude himself and then foists his delusion upon the world. What a wonder is this!"


continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Siddhis:

Verse 81 of Devi Kalottaram:

maRai poi Odum
Animadhi yana guNamArnthiduhavanRi
ANugAmale ahdhahala - uNanrnthe
VimalaMam appadihyai veeduRuthaRappan
AmalaMam dehi aRi.

Know that the flawless Yogi, the dehi who, with the impurities of the adjuncts removed, has realized himself as the dehi, the Immaculate Self, other than the body that dwells in, unperturbed by either elation or drooping of spirits, when eight fold supernatural powers, the Ashtama Siddhis like Anima, spoken highly of in the Vedas, come and abide in him or keep away from him, will experience the blemishless form of Brahman and will gain the Home of Release, without fail.

The eight fold siddhis may flock together and sport, of their own accord, before some yogis in the course of their spiritual journey towards the goal of Jnana, or they may not even approach some others. Whether siddhis will dance attendance or not on a Jnani will be decided by the inborn latencies or purva vasanas of the Jnanis. But a Jnani of blemishless and immaculate heart will not bestow even a passing thought on them. He does not exult when siddhis attend on him nor is he driven to despair when they don't. He remains totally oblivious of them for he remains as the blemishless form of Atman, Awareness Pure and Whole. Tranquility of mind vouchsafes for him the joy of Release.

The Jnanis who have gained Jnanasiddhi, the perfect siddhi of the grandeur of liberation alone are those who have gained the summum bonum of all siddhis and the entire gamut of all other siddhis abides in them in toto, manifest or unmanifest, like many a cosmos lies concealed and unmanifest in space.

Sri Bhagavan in Sri Ramana Gita declares: "By effortless abidance in the Self, the siddhis may in course of time come to the seer and if prarabdha lies that way, even a Jnani may sport such powers. Just as to the sage the world appears as nothing but the Self, even so the play of siddhis is regarded by him as nothing other than the Self. (Verse 20 and 21 of Chapter XI) and "They know nothing who think that Jnana is devoid of power. For a Jnani abides in his real state of Being, which is the plenitude of power and all round perfection." (ibid.Verse 26).

Guru Vachaka Kovai says in verse 983:

"There the one who does not delude
himself
As the beholder of outer objects
But knows his real status as
The mighty Self Supreme, rejects
The eight fold siddhis and attains
The plenitude of blissful peace."
(Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan)

concluded.

(Tr. Smt. Kanakammal -Commentary
on Anuvadha NoonmAlai, Vol. 1)

****

Anonymous said...

You know what Ram Dass said: "If you think you're enlightened, spend a week with your parents."

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verses 20 & 21:

Sri Bhagavan describes in the above verses, what is the real Iswara Darsanam. The 'seeing of God' is only experiencing the Chit Chaitanyam, within. All darsanam through eyes either in waking state or through mind in dream state is only dualistic. Once when someone asked Sri Bhagavan, 'What will you do if Arunachaleswara comes before you?', Sri Bhagavan replied: 'I shall tell Him not to have this coming and going business. Please
stay within Heart.'

Verse 20:

KANum thanai vittu thAn kadavuLaik
kANal
KAnum manomayamam katchi thanaik -
kAnumavan
ThAn kadavuL kaNdAnAm thAn mudhal
poi
ThAn kadavuL inRi ilathAl.

If a seer who sees everything perceptible without knowing by enquiry the seeing Self says: 'I
have had darshan of God', is but to see the form of one's own imagined mental projection. After the first thought of the ego, 'I', perishes
- the Atman - that remains is not anything other than God. Therefore the real seer is the one who, his ego annihilated, sees his Self, the source of the rise and subsidence of the ego.

Normally most people think that the
God of all the universe remains outside of him with a name and form like objects of the world he sees.
Even the vision of God is a projection of the mind. The chidakasa Jiva imagining that he is a mere speck and a trifle and that the Lord is everything and is omniscient deludes only himself. Whatever the Jiva creates in the mental plane, even if be the God himself, is being mental, is unreal. However high and exalted the conception is, it cannot be higher than the level of our limited consciousness. Therefore seeing the God is but seeing the mind only. Visions vary, but Consciousness does not vary. It is eternal. It is the Self. There is no moment when the Self as Consciousness does not exist, nor can the seer remain apart from Consciousness. Pratyaksha (inner vision) does not mean seeing but Being. Sri Bhagavan referring to Sivaprakasam Pillai's visions said, "Visions are not external. They appear only internally. If external, they must assert themselves without there being a seer. In that case, what is the warranty for their existence? The Seer only." (Talks No. 266)

In the nature of Being, both Iswara and Jiva are one and the same substance, differing only in the awareness of the adjuncts. (Upadesa Undiyar, Verse 24.)

The Seer as the Self that perceives everything is God and experiencing and remaining as Atman is truly the 'vision of God'. Seeing God here is only a conventional way of saying so. To see God is to be God.

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - verses 20 & 21:

continues....

Sub Registrar Narayana Iyer had the unique fortune of listening to Sri Bhagavan expound these verses on the very first day of his arrival. He was a skeptic to start with, with scant regard for sadhus as he thought them to be parasites on society. Much against his will, he came only to scoff but remained to worship and pray. Such was the transformation wrought on him by Sri Bhagavan at his every first encounter with Him. When Sri Bhagavan uttered these words while explaining this text, a stentorian voice amongst the devotees boomed to ask, 'Does Sri Bhagavan say this out of His Swanubhava (direct experience?' Sri Bhagavan's candid reply was, "Else would I dare so?"
Narayana Iyer thereafter, made his daily practice only to chant Ulladu Narpadu verses, throughout his life.

The vision of a devotee may well be called a product of his imagination. Will not a self realized Jnani see God? His individuality totally lost, a Jnani and the Lord shine as one form - nondually. They are one by identity.

Sri Bhagavan also says in Upadesa Undiyar, verse 25:

Seeing oneself free of all
attributes
Is to see the Lord,
For He shines ever as the Pure
Self.

And again Verse 26 says:

To know the Self is but to be the
Self
For it is non dual
In such knowledge
One abides as That.

Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 647 says:

Adhanai nokkAthe idhanai nokkAthe
Ethanaiyum nokkathu iruppin -
madan ser
Iruppu nokkAle elaiyil chidakasap
Parappu nokkAm param poruL AvAi.

If you remain still, without paying attention to this, without paying
attention to that, and without paying attention to anything at all, you will, simply through your powerful attention (madan ser iruppu) to being become the Reality, the vast eye, (parappu nokkAm), the unbounded space of consciousness (elaiyil chidakAsam).

(Tr.David Godman)


Muruganar adds here two verses of
Arunagiri Natha and Tayumanavar:

Arunagiri Natha also says in Verse 12 of Kandar Anubhuti:

Summa iru sol aRa enralume,
Amma poruL onRum aRinthilane.

Tayumanavar also says in Udal PoyyuRavu, Verse 58:

OrAmale orukAl unnAmal uL oLiyaip
PArAmal uLLapadi pArthirunthAl
- vArAtho?
Pathu thisaiyum paranthu ezhunthu
Ananda veLLam
Thathik karai puraNdu thAn.

*

(Sources: Sri Sadhu Om; Smt. T.R. Kanakammal)

****

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verses 20 & 21:

continues...

The verse 21 describes the true import of the saying that "one
seeing God" is to realize the Self
within. How can one realize the Self? In both self inquiry and self surrender, it only means to kill or surrender the ego to the Self or God.

Tannait tAn kAnal talaivan tanaik
kAnal
Ennum pannul unmai ennai enin -
tannait tAn
KANal evan tAn onRAR kAna voNAthe
thalaivaR
KAnal evan ooNAthal kAN.

All scriptural treatises on Jnana declare that to see one's own Self (the real form of oneself) is to see God, the Primal Being and the substratum of one. The truth of this saying is: as the feeling of awareness as 'I' is but one and not two, how can one see the Atman shining as one's own Self? Who is the Seer then? If seeing oneself by one is not possible, how can one see God, the Primal Being? Becoming "food" for Him is to see God. Becoming food - oonAthal - is nothing but submission of the ego.

The purport of Jnana Sastras (pannool) when they say, 'To see the Self is to see the Lord' is to offer the jivabodham (the false I-hood), the individuality or the ego-sense as food for the Absolute and to merge it totally in the true form of 'I' and be That.

This has also been the experience of Sri Bhagavan as revealed by Him in Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, Verse 2: "KaNdavan evan enak karuthinuL nAda, kaNdavan inRida ninRathu kaNden..." Sri Bhagavan also says in Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai, Verse 28: "Sappadunnaich charnthu unavaai yan, santhamai povan arunachala!"

The ghost of the ego gets into the very methods of sadhana, it being very subtle and ingenious. Assuming the role of Atman, it will pretend to go along with a sadhak in trying to eliminate itself but renders it as impossible as it is for a thief in the guise of a policeman to catch the hound. Whatever the path followed, it will seemingly goad to sadhak to go onward ipso facto fattening itself in the process. It is precisely the recognition of this nature of the ego, which made King Janaka exclaim, "I have discovered the thief who had been ruining me all along. I will now deal with him summarily. Then I shall be happy." (Talks No. 49).

By offering the selfhood or ego as food for the God is not all that easy. The ego will delude and mislead one to perpetuate its own existence. It is as difficult for the ego to question itself as it is for the tip of the index finger that touches everything else to touch itself. The ego, with the mask of the reflected glory of the Atman, parades as the Atman. This vainglorious action of the ego is akin to the vain boast of the mouth in a face that smiles to claim it has chewed and eaten up the face. The face, it is in fact, that gives the mouth a place to stay.

Ozhivil Odukkam sings: "The mouth of the severed head will gasp and subside but cannot bring itself to say, 'My head is lost.' Likewise, when the head of the ego 'I' is severed or consumed by the Absolute, how can it say, 'I saw' or 'I knew' or who will be left behind to report it?"

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verses 20 & 21:

continues....

Sri Sadhu Om says, in this context,
about Kaivalya Navaneetam Verse 1.13.

It is said, "If one sees oneself and God, who is the substratum of oneself, then God having become oneself and oneself having become Brahman, one will put an end to birth..." This is often misinterpreted to mean that one must first realize oneself, the individual soul, and then one must realize God, who is the substratum or underlying support of oneself.

Sri Bhagavan also used to narrate a story to illustrate the import of the verse. A man wanted to see a tiger. After making enquiries among some villagers, the man was told that an old tiger lived in a certain cave in the nearby forest. Being very old, the tiger was unable to come out of the cave to hunt its prey, so it remained inside waiting for some prey to come of its own accord. After searching and finding the cave, the man peeped inside, but he was unable to see anything because it was so dark. His desire to see the tiger was so strong, however, that he gathered up his courage and entered the cave. But still he could not see anything inside. Little by little he proceeded further into the cave, but in the darkness he was unable to see the tiger. All of a sudden, when he had come very close to the tiger. It pounced and devoured him.

Just as the man never saw the tiger, so the individual self can never see or realize God, the real Self. But in its attempt to see God, who shines within as the adjunctless consciousness 'I am', the individual self will become a prey to God. The means by which the individual can thus attempt to see God and thereby become a prey to him.

Sri Bhagavan also says in Verse 26 says:

ThAnAi irutthale thannai
aRithalAnth
ThAn iraNdaRRathAl undipara
Than maya nishtai eethu undipara.

To know the Self is but to be the
Self,
For It is non dual.
In such knowledge
One abides as That.

*

(Source: Smt. T.R. Kanakammal;
Sri Sadhu Om; Talks.)

Ravi said...

Friends,
I Came Across this wonderful 'The Human Gospel of Ramana Maharshi' by Sri V Ganesan.In this excerpt ,sri Ganesan shares how he was advised by mAtAji KrishnAbai to look after Sri Bhagavan's devotees as part of his sAdhana.I have heard it from a Dear Friend of mine who had heard it from Ganesan.I found it here in this downloadable pdf:
An example of an awakened being that came with a mandala of devotees earlier is Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. When no disciple had come to him yet, and at times intoxicated with divine communion, he would stand at the bank of the river Ganges and shout, ―Mother, where are the young people who you said you are sending? They have not arrived yet!‖ The Divine Mother (Ramakrishna recognized the Divine Mother in all Forms) eventually provided eighteen impressive disciples.
Bhagavan had many sincere and well-known devotees, but the human and sacred relationships of these devotees with Bhagavan were never formally recorded in the form of a single Gospel or sharing. The reminiscences in books like Talks with Ramana Maharshi, Letters from Ramanashram and Day by Day with Bhagavan, contain answers and descriptions given by the Bhagavan. However, there were precious few records of Ramana Maharshi‘s life from the devotees‘ point of view, and I longed for these Darshans and intimate nuances in satsang to be recorded and shared as part of this remarkable God flower, a divine Masterpiece that was unfolding. From 1956 onward, I would constantly question other devotees. ―How did you interact with Bhagavan? How did he treat you? What was your relationship with him like?‖ They would all humbly reply, ―We are nobody. Ask us about Bhagavan, and we will tell you.

Continued....

Ravi said...

The Human Gospel of Ramana maharshi continued...
In 1960, I moved to Ramanashram. I worked diligently at Ashram duties but I was not completely happy. I couldn‘t put my finger on what was missing, and how I could be more fulfilled. Though I received a lot of well-meaning advice from peers at the Ashram, I was simply not fulfilled. My Teacher, T. K. Sundaresa Iyer then said to me, ―If you are not satisfied with our advice, then you should go and get it from an acknowledged jnani.‖ He then directed me to Papa Ramdas of Kanghangad in Kerala, who in turn sent me to his spiritual heir, a saint called Krishna Bai or Maatha ji.
I asked her, ―How should I serve my Master? What is my practice?‖ She replied, ―Old devotees of Bhagavan have already left the Ashram. Go bring them back, attend to them, and serve them until their last day. This is your service, your life. It is your Seva. I was taken aback. I had closely studied Eastern and Western philosophy. Nowhere had I heard of serving the guru‘s devotees as a form of practice. She added, ―Another important hurdle is that since you are related to Ramana Maharshi, everybody will tell you and treat you like you are already liberated. They will tell you that according to the Hindu scriptures, a realized Master‘s relatives are already realized beings. Seven generations preceding and the subsequent seven generations are supposedly free of karma. Be here now. It is a golden chain into the non-existent past. It is a lie. You must earn your bread—your spiritual bread. God is absolutely impartial. You are to practice Ramana Maharshi‘s teachings, so pursue Self-Enquiry for your Self.
Overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task before me, I shed tears, ―Mother, I am leaving, and you will be far away!‖ ―I am going to guide you,‖ she reassured me. ―You are six hundred miles away from me! How are you going to guide me?‖ I looked at her questioningly. She replied, ―Don‘t worry about that. I will be guiding you every moment.(Sure enough, I can palpably feel her guidance even now.)
When I came back to Ramanashram, I acted on Maatha ji‘s counsel very sincerely. I started searching for the elder devotees, coaxing them back to the Ashram, serving them, and putting Bhagavan‘s teachings and satsang into practice. In the beginning, I didn‘t always get it my way nor did I have a complete grasp of it, but I did not give up. I kept wondering why she had said that to serve the elder devotees was my practice.

Ravi said...

The Human Gospel of Sri Ramana maharshi continued...
Then the revelation dawned. I am being called to record and share all the devotees‘ reminiscences of Ramana Maharshi and their relationship with him, the satsang, the Darshans. I began working on this sharing with renewed inspiration. Veneration goes to the old devotees who started
THE HUMAN GOSPEL OF RAMANA MAHARSHI
AS SHARED BY V. GANESAN
24
sharing their memories of Bhagavan. I owe much to beings like Kunjuswami, Annamalai Swami, G. Ramaswami Pillai, and Major Chadwick for coming forward with beautiful instances of their meetings with Ramana Maharshi. A deluge of reminiscences came down gracefully from these and other devotees. I pleaded with all of them to write them down. ―Please share your memories of Bhagavan, your interactions with him, and his interactions with the earlier devotees . . . everything. Because whatever you say will be direct from the source. And they graciously responded. In the thirty five years I was in Ramanashram, it was my association with elder devotees of Bhagavan that shared with me the joy and wisdom for posterity. It has been my Heart‘s wish to further share the joy and understanding of this literal and beautiful life in a sharing for many years.
From my perception, each and every devotee has a perfect role to play in the Master‘s spontaneous mandala—and this forms the foundation of the Human Gospel of Ramana Maharshi. The inspiration is to bring to light how Ramana Maharshi‘s devotees came together gracefully, basked in his Darshan and naturally supported the Master in his mission, and to reveal the function of their life in relationship with Ramana Maharshi. The revealing satsang is filled with synchronicity, blessings, sacrifice, humor, and human love for our Master. A beautiful divine scent of this God flower is now released in our midst.
I am most grateful to Elizabeth MacDonald and the staff at AHAM Retreat Center, Asheboro, NC, as well as in India, for hosting a significant portion of talks on the old devotees of Sri Bhagavan during my summer visits to America and North Carolina and at AHAM, India. They have all the talks recorded in the form of DVDs, from which many aspects of this sharing were culled by the services of friends. To them all, I owe a sincere deep sense of gratitude. This original sharing of Ganesan entitled The Human Gospel Of Ramana Maharshi is edited and shared in America and complies with American Chicago Style English; I have suitably edified some obscure traditional Hindu expressions and quotations to suit this popular style English nomenclature for easy grasping in Western cultures. In any case, allow the words to fall away, leaving the essence of your own pure understanding.
As you read, notice devotees respectfully, and with great humility refer to Ramana Maharshi as simply Bhagavan, an affectionate name of God."

You may download this pdf from:
http://www.chrob.org/reviews/2000/HumanGospelSharingWesternVersion.pdf
Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Friends,
A couple of Excerpts from The Human Gospel of Sri Ramana maharshi by V Ganesan:
1.Throughout his early childhood, my great uncle, Venkataraman noticed the sound ‗Arunachala‘ within himself. The sound stayed with him all the time but he did not know what it was. Later when he became known as Ramana Maharshi, he was asked, ―If you could hear the sound all the time, why did you not ask people about it? Why did you not seek an explanation for it?‖ Bhagavan replied, ―Would someone go about checking with people if they breathe? It was built into my system, and I thought everyone could hear it too. I did not know it was an aberration. (Similarly, Swami Vivekananda would see a splendid blue pearl or light between his eyebrows from his childhood. When asked why he did not ask anyone about this strange occurrence, Swami replied, ―I thought everyone was seeing the light.‖)

2.I clearly remember the day when I was three years old and went to Bhagavan to prostrate before him. When I got up, Bhagavan said: ―Ganesa, go! Your Noye is seated there. Sit on her lap.‖ With great joy I ran toward an elderly Western lady and positioned myself happily on her lap.
She was Eleanor Pauline Noye. This is not the only incident where I was gracefully linked with her. There was another incident in the same year, almost at the same time. At lunch time, I went into the dining hall, where Bhagavan and the devotees were seated for lunch. I went straight to Eleanor Pauline Noye and insisted that I eat only from her leaf plate. The lady cooks were all orthodox people and most of the Ashram guests were all orthodox Brahmins. It is abhorrent for a Brahmin child to take food from the leaf plate of a Westerner, especially a woman. Brahmins came running and lifted me up to save me from the so-called pollution. I was adamant and threw a tantrum, creating a scene. Bhagavan‘s attention was drawn, and he comprehended the whole drama with a single look. With a cool and calm tone, he told the lady cooks: ―Bring a plate of food, put a spoon into it, and show it to the child. He will come along with you. His insistence is not to eat from her plate. Ganesan has never seen anybody eat with a spoon; he too wants to eat with a spoon!‖ As the only Westerner staying at the Ashram at that time, Eleanor Pauline Noye was indeed eating with a spoon. I followed the cooks like a puppy. Bhagavan looked at me and remarked: ―See! Your wish is fulfilled!‖ He turned to the cooks and others and said: ―Now, your problem is also solved!‖
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Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Friends,
An interesting observation by Sri Ganesan in the Human Gospel of Ramana Maharshi:
Bhagavan drew aspirants from all sectors of humanity. In every one of my sharings with yearning aspirants, I would pose a question, ―How did you come to Arunachala, and how did you come to know of Bhagavan?‖ They would generally reply, ―Somebody gave me an article about Arunachala, so I came here.‖ I would ask, ―You read so many articles. Does this mean that you go to all the places that you read about in those articles? Why have you come to Arunachala?‖
They would then say, ―Now I understand. It is not the printed words that brought me here but, truly, a Higher Power. One may say that it was Bhagavan that called me here.‖ Every devotee who has been attracted to Bhagavan has been brought here by the same Shakti, Thy Will, Father, or Higher Power. The same Higher Power drew Bhagavan, Himself, to silent Arunachala! Surrender and the Leela of the Holy Spirit will place you in the heart of the infinite Father.

Namaskar.

Murali said...

Ravi wrote:

"I Came Across this wonderful 'The Human Gospel of Ramana Maharshi' by Sri V Ganesan."

Accidentally, I bounced into this book in the internet a few months back and read it fully in a matter for a few days. I found it very interesting and every story there gave a new perspective which I did not know before.

I would recommend everyone to read it.

Regards Murali

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 22:

After describing what is the real Atma Darsanam or Deva Darsanam in Verses 20 & 21, Sri Bhagavan says in Verse 22, how can the mind, which 'sees' all the world, humans, other living beings and non living objects, on the strength of the reflected light of Atman, can ever attempt to see the Light, the Consciousness, the Self or Atman?

Madhikku oLi thanthu am madhikkuL\
oLirum
Madhiyinai uLLe madakki - Pathiyil
Pathithitudhal anRi pathiyai
madhiyAl
Madhithiduthal engnan madhi.

The Lord of the Heart, Atman is self effulgent, swayamprakasam. It lends light to the mind that knows
everything, shines also within the mind as its substratum. Other than restraining the mind from becoming externalized by turning it within, lodging it firmly and uniting it with the Lord (Pathi), can one measure the Lord with the mind? How is it possible? Know this, (madhi).

Atman lends light to the mind, but not always. During sleep, fainting and death, there is no lending of light by Atman to mind. During these times, the mind does not know anything. The nature of 'the reflected light' during all other times, is only to see and know the external things and beings.

Sri Sadhu Om gives an example here. If we take a mirror to the sunlight and show it towards a dark room, the mirror will direct the reflected light of the Sun into the room and one can see all the objects in that room. However, if we turn the mirror to the Sun, then the reflected light will merge and dissolve in the brilliant light of the Sun. The mirror is no longer useful.

Similarly the reflected light of Consciousness that we call our mind enables us to know the objects external to us but not the Consciousness Itself.

The state in which the limited light of our mind dissolves in the infinite light of God / Self, thereby disappearing as a separate entity and becoming one with Him.
This, Sri Bhagavan described in the previous verse as "becoming food to God," (ooNAthal)

Therefore, one must turn with, gathering the scattered thoughts of an outgoing and distracted mind and inquire as to where does one's light of intelligence proceed from. Merging the mind firmly in the Light and Source that supports it is 'knowing it' - madhitidudhal.

Katopanishad says, Verse 5.15:

There Sun does not shine. Moon and stars do not shine. The lightning does not shine. Agni does not shine. All these shine due to the self effulgent Atman. All these are even known only through the self effulgent Atman.

(Source: Sri Sadhu Om & Smt. T.R.Kanakammal)

****

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 23:

Verses Nos. 23 to 30 are the heart of Ulladu Narpadu. It speaks of Hrudaya Vidya or Atma Vidya. This group is called Sri Ramana Rahasyam.

NAn enRu ith deham navilAthu,
uRakkathu
NAn inRu enRu yArum navilvathu ilai
- nAn onRu
Ezhunthapin ellAm ezhum, indha nAn
engu
Ezhum enRu nuN madhiyAl eN.

The body, being inert, will not say, 'I' on its own, without the activity of the mind. In deep sleep, with no awareness of the body, none says, 'I am not'. After the subjective feeling of 'I', which had subsided in deep sleep, arises on waking, God, Jiva, the world and all its objects appear. Search with a sharp and subtle mind
(nuN madhiyAl) where from the 'I' (the ego sense) arises, and know the Truth.

In deep sleep, when the activity of the mind gets suspended, none says 'I am not'. Be he a scholar or an ignoramus, it is the day to day and common experience of all without any distinction. 'I am' is an universal experience of all without any distinction. 'I am' is an universal experience. Even those who deny the existence of God or other worlds never deny their own existence. Such is the firmness of this conviction of everyone in one's own being. But this awareness 'I am' always identifies itself with a body. Every act of the body is considered as one's own.

But the body on its own cannot say 'I am'. In deep sleep there is no awareness of the body. None says 'I am not.' Sri Bhagavan says that one should inquire and know the Truth of that person, as one's identity as represented by the awareness of 'I' is distinct from that of the body.

Only due to the tAn, awareness of 'I', the ego, nAn, shines. Unfortunately, mixed up with the mind, tAn gets limited to the size of the body projected by the mind and is regarded as trivial. In reality It is Satchit unbroken. This Satchit should be searched with a subtle and sharp mind and realized. NuNmadhi says Sri Bhagavan for this subtle and sharp mind.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 23:

continues...

This I-thought is the seed of world
appearance. The source of it, whence it springs from, must be enquired into, known and realized. Though Atman is veiled by the illusions of the mind, It ever shines in the Heart as tAn, I-I, as Awareness of Being.

In the Kalivenba version, where every verse is linked to the next verse, through a phrase or word, Sri Bhagavan has added eNNa nazhuvm, that is if one enquires with the subtle and sharp mind, this I-thought or nAn slips away.

In Upadesa Undiyar, Verses 17 and 19, Sri Bhagavan says:

Manathin uruvai maRavAthu usAva
Manam ena onRilai undipara
Margam ner Arkum idhu undipara

NAnenRu ezhumidam ethena nAda uN
NAn thalai sAinthidum undipara
Jnana Vicharam idhu undipara.


When unceasingly the mind
Scans its own form
There is nothing of the kind
For everyone one
This path direct is open.

When one turns within and searches
Whence this 'I' thought arises,
The shamed 'I' vanishes --
And wisdom's quest begins.

Again in verse 21, Sri Bhagavan says:

NAn ennum sorpuruLamathu nAlume
NAn aRRa thookathum undipara
Namathinmai neekathAl undipara.

Of the term, 'I', the permanent
import
Is That. For even in deep sleep
Where we have no sense of 'I'
We do not cease to be.

Verse 23 concluded.

(Source: T.R. Kanakammal; Sri Sadhu Om; Prof. K. Swaminathan.)

****

Subramanian. R said...

Jagrat and Sushupti:

(From Mountain Path, Oct.-Dec. 2011; John Grimes)

According to Sri Bhagavan, the common understanding of the Jagrat (waking state) and the Swapna (dream state) involves a misunderstanding. Truly there is only dreaming. True waking and true dreaming, only the Sage knows. Individuals dream they are awake and they dream that they sleep. The three states of waking, dreaming, deep sleep are only varieties of the dream state. Sri Bhagavan says:
"Real waking lies beyond the three
states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep." (Talks # 476)

The realm of Maya is comprised of every day experiences as well as dreams and illusions; any and every realm involving multiplicity. According to Advaita, anything that a person perceives or experiences is attributed some sort of existence, reality. The question is: 'What sort of reality?" What is understood is that the reality that a person generally attributes to objects of perception is not the reality that is Brahman. That which is apparently real has a reality that is very much limited. Such 'existents' or 'appearances' are seemingly real to an individual at the time they are experienced, but once a cognition suffers sublation, it ceases to be 'real'. Their reality is subject to a given individual at a given time. A useful example to demonstrate that perceptions are possible of objects that do not necessarily exist in empirical reality is the case of dreams. Dreams are inscrutable phenomena and Sri Bhagavan made frequent use of dreams to illustrate the nature of reality:

"All that we see is dream, whether we see it in the dream state or waking state. On account of some arbitrary standards about the duration of the experience and so on, we call one experience a dream and another waking experience. With reference to Reality both the experiences are unreal." (Devaraja Mudaliar, Gem from Bhagavan)

In a dream we observe that every dream-object, including oneself, all enjoy the exact same ontological status. The reality of the most expensive diamond is exactly the same as a speck of carbon. This aspect of dreams helps to convey some understanding of the state of a Sage. Sri Bhagavan remarked: "Does a man who sees many individuals in his dream persists in believing them to be real and inquire after them when he wakes up?" (Talks # 571) "When a man dreams, he creates himself (the ego) and the surroundings, all of them are later withdrawn into himself. The one becomes many, along with the seer." (Talks # 474).

According to Sri Bhagavan, in addition to the above, dreams are a helpful aid in a seeker's spiritual practices. A seeker is advised to look upon everything in the world as possessing the same value, since nothing in the world actually possesses any real value. If the world is viewed as a dream containing dream objects, an individual is less likely to foster worldly desires and strives to fulfill them.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...
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Subramanian. R said...

Siva Temples connected with 12
Saiva Canons (TirumuRais):

Tevaram and other verses in Canons
IX, X, XI are connected with Siva
Temples are 274 in number. Apart from this Tiruvachakam and Tiruchitrambala Kovai of Saint Manikkavachagar mentions 48 Siva Temples. Among these two groups, some of them are same Temples. Of these 274+ temples, two are in Sri Lanka. 5 are in North India. 1 is in Karnataka. The rest are in Tamizh Nadu.

It occurred to me to mention about some lesser known Temples and briefly describe their location and the names of Siva and Uma and also the important verses where in these are mentioned by Saiva saints.

1. TiruparAithuRai - 623 115

Siva is called ParaithuRai Nathar and Uma is called Ponmayilammai in this temple. The tirtham (holy waters in the nearby river or tanks) is Kaveri. The Sthala Viruksham (Tree connected with the Temple) is Parai Tree (?).

This temple is near Tiruchirapalli and can be reached by bus from this town. Kaveri is quite close to the temple. It is considered auspicious to have bath on the first day of Aippasi (Tula) month. (Oct-Nov.) Puranas says that Indra, Kubera, and the seven sages (Sapta Rishis)
came and prayed to the Lord.

Tiru Jnana Sambandhar (11 decads), Tiru Navukkarasar (11 decads) and Manikkavachagar (in two lines, in PoRRi Tiru Ahaval and Setthilapathu) have glorified this temple.

NeeRu servathor meniyar nerizhai
KooRu servathor kolamAip
PAru serthalai kaiyar paraithuRai
ARu ser sadai aNNale. (1.135.1)

NerupparAi nimirnthAlokku neeL
sadai
MarupparAi vaLainthAlokku vANmathi
TiruppaRai thuRai meviya selvanAr
ViruppaRai iruppArai aRivare.
(5.30.9)

ParaithuRai meviya parane poRRi
(Tiruvachakam 4.153)
Then paraithuRaiyai sivaloka
(Tiruvachakam, SethilApathu,
4)

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Jagrat and Sushupti - John Grimes:
(Oct.-Dec. 2011, Mountain Path)

continues.....

"A dreamer dreams a dream. He sees the dream world with pleasures, pains, etc., But he wakes up and then loses all interest in the dream world. So it is with the waking world also. Just as the dream-world being only a part of yourself and not different from you, ceases to interest you, so also the present world would cease to interest you if you awake from this waking dream (samsara) and realize that it is a part of yourself and not an objective reality. Because you think that you are apart from the objects around you, you desire a thing. But, if you understand that the thing was only a thought-form, you would no longer desire it." (Talks # 625)

The dream world is very useful but all that we can know from the dream world is that the Reality is 'not this', 'not this'. If the world is but an extended dream, this tells us that it is not real, but it can't tell us what is Real. Even if we learn that this world is a dream, all that an extended dream informs us of we can realize is that all this is not real. It does not tell us what is Real.

The dream analogy has many facets to it and explicates much of what remain puzzling vis a vis non dualistic teachings, The dream analogy clarifies the rather incredible claim that one is not, as is generally believed, in the universe, but rather universe is in oneself. Dreams and everything contained within them are within the dreamer. Sri Bhagavan said: "You dream of finding yourself in another town. Can another town enter your room? Could you have left and gone there?" (Conscious Immortality, Paul Brunton). In dreams, the dreamer creates the entire universe, experiences various things therein, and then withdraws them.

Dreams, according to Sri Bhagavan, suggest that the dream state and the waking state partake the same reality. Dreams have the ability to put into doubt the reality of waking experiences, which one takes for granted as real. What are the reasons why one would make such a bold claim? Even if it is true that the objects come and go in both states, there seem exist many differences between them.

Sri Bhagavan said: "In the waking state, the ego identifies itself with the physical body. In dreams it identifies with the subtle mind. The ego and the mind are one and the same." (Talks # 2)

continued....

Ravi said...

Friends,
A few months back,there were some comments on Sri kAvyakanta Ganapathi muni.Sri Ganesan has some very moderating observations on this wonderful devotee.Here is an excerpt from 'The Human Gospel of Ramana maharshi':

When I went to Ramanashram some people, for whom I had respect, often spoke ill of Kavyakantha. They claimed that his accounts were figments of his imagination. I was influenced by their views on the genius. Even today there is a lot of literature that portrays Kavyakantha in a poor light. I approached Munagala Venkataramaia, a distinguished scholar and one of the recorders of the talks with Bhagavan. Now, Munagala had not seen Kavyakantha and was therefore neutral about him. ―Why do people pull down Kavyakantha so much?‖ I enquired, listing out all the transgressions he is rumored to have made. ―Ganesan, stop!‖ he exclaimed. ―How did you know all this?‖ I revealed the names of the people who told me this. He replied, ―They have given an opinion and you have received it. Are you sure it is the Truth?‖ I was puzzled. ―How can we know which opinion is correct?‖ I asked. Munagala then said, ―Whatever Bhagavan says is trustworthy.‖
I was still not satisfied. I had read a tiff that Kavyakantha was not a Self-realized soul because he had so many sankalpas. His detractors often quoted this too, and I was convinced by this logic. I put forth my argument to Munagala. He told me, ―I asked Bhagavan the same thing—how come it is written in such and such a book that Kavyakantha was not Self-realized. Bhagavan told me, ‗That is not what I said, but what the recorder must have expected me to say.‖ Munagala then advised me, ―Go by whatever Bhagavan has said, and you will be near the Truth. Do not go by opinions, particularly if they divide people—whether saints or anyone else. Do not pay heed to them. Aspirants should never be carried away by negative statements made about any sage or saint. In order to progress, this is the first guideline to remember. What detractors say are just opinions and if we believe them, we fall victim to the mind.‖"

Continued....

Ravi said...

Ganesan on Sri KAvyakanta Ganapathi muni continued....
It is true that Kavyakantha had very high ideals. However, they are not merely sankalpas, but satya sankalpas. A sankalpa is a concentrated desire of wanting to achieve something. A satya sankalpa is that sankalpa which comes to you—not that you have a desire for it. Kavyakantha had three satya sankalpas: His first sankalpa was that he wanted India to be free. Kavyakantha‘s second satya sankalpa was equal status for women in Indian society. With Christian and Muslim influences over many centuries, women were often subjugated and relegated to the kitchen. They were allowed no participation in society. However, Vedic culture stated that women must have equal rights. In the Vedic Age, many women like Vasishta‘s wife, Arundati, and Yajnavalkya‘s wife, Maitrayi, were considered jnanis or realized beings. Thirdly, he sought for Vedic culture to be revived.
He placed these before Bhagavan. In 1908, Kavyakantha had asked Bhagavan, ―Is aspiring to the source of the I-thought sufficient for the attainment of all my aims, or is mass incantation or mantra japa needed?‖ Bhagavan replied, ―Aspiring to the source of the I-thought will suffice.‖ Though this was the initial advice Bhagavan shared with him, Kavyakantha pressed on with his argument, ―What about my aims and ideals?‖ Bhagavan replied, ―It will be better if you throw the entire burden on the Lord. He will carry it, and you will be free. He will do his part.‖
Munagala Venkataramaia told me, ―People quote these sentences. But Bhagavan told me what happened afterward. At first, Kavyakantha couldnot grasp the inner meaning of Bhagavan‘s counsel. After a few years, he came to Bhagavan and said, ‗Bhagavan I am surrendering all my sankalpas at your holy feet.‘ There was no greater guru than Bhagavan for him.‖
It is interesting to see how all three of Nayana‘s satya sankalpas were, in time, fulfilled. Nayana passed away in 1936, and India gained her independence in 1947. The Chief Minister of Madras State was a devotee of Bhagavan. Therefore he wanted the national flag to be hoisted not in the state capital Madras, but at Ramanashram. This created a furor in the state, but the Chief Minister adamantly said, ―I will go to my Master.‖ He approached Bhagavan and insisted, ―You must hoist the national flag.‖ It is a little-known fact: to the delight of all present, Bhagavan hoisted the flag. Then he turned to my Teacher, T. K. Sundaresa Iyer and said, ―Our Nayana‘s sankalpa is fulfilled.‖

continued...

Ravi said...

Ganesan on Sri KAvyakanta Ganapathi muni continued...
Nayana‘s second sankalpa was also fulfilled by Bhagavan when he recognized Maha Samadhi for a woman, his mother. At that time it defied Hindu tradition. Now we venerate Anandamayi Ma, Mother Krishna Bai, Godavari Maatha, Shobanamma and many others. The exalted status of these women sages and saints, amongst others, was accepted by Hindu society only after the advent of the Ramana Gita. Now Bhagavan‘s words are quoted: that there is no difference between male or female. We must not forget that it was Kavyakantha, because of whom this wisdom was drawn out from Bhagavan. His second sankalpa found further fulfillment when Ramanashram appointed a woman as its manager of the School for the Vedas. This was to Kavyakantha‘s credit. He also contributed to her predecessor Major Chadwick‘s appointment, as the Vedapathashala‘s first manager. Being a westerner, this was unthinkable back then in India.
Nayana and his disciples plied Bhagavan with questions. Though the answers were not immediately noted down, Nayana had such a clear memory that later he condensed Bhagavan‘s answers into verses and recited them, saying, ―This is from the third chapter of Ramana Gita,‖ or ―This is the eighth verse from the second chapter in the Ramana Gita.‖ He had not yet written Ramana Gita and people used to wonder at his claims. Then, finally one day, he sat down and wrote the entire Ramana Gita of three hundred verses. He wrote the questions with their answers and showed them to Bhagavan, who verified each one of them and remarked, ―Perfectly correct.‖
Devotees of Bhagavan are universally grateful to Kavyakantha Ganapati Muni: Firstly, he was the one who recognized and shared with the Master his celebrated, sacred name. Secondly, he was the first person who persuaded our Master to start talking. Before him, Sivaprakasam Pillai, Gambhiram Seshayya, and others assumed Bhagavan was in formal silence and received Bhagavan‘s answers in writing. It was only to Kavyakantha that Bhagavan started giving answers orally. He was also the one who insisted that Bhagavan write a poem in Sanskrit in the arya meter. Bhagavan replied that he knew very little of Sanskrit and its meters. Kavyakantha explained the rules of the arya meter and repeated his request. A day later, Bhagavan presented to an amazed Kavyakantha, two flawless verses. Then, on the following day, he presented three more. These five verses are none other than Arunachala Pancharatnam, a hymn that is chanted daily in front of Bhagavan‘s Samadhi.

continued...

Ravi said...

Ganesan on Sri KAvyakanta Ganapathi muni continued...
In the Ramana Gita, one of Bhagavan‘s answers about women is most revealing. Nayana questions Bhagavan, ―Are not women equal to men?‖ Bhagavan answers, ―What is woman or man? It is based on the body. Forthe soul, there is no difference.‖ Then Kavyakantha asks, ―Then is it possible for women to Master the scriptures?‖ Bhagavan replied, ―Without a doubt.‖ Nayana went on, ―Can women get Self-realization? Do they become jnanis?‖ ―Without a doubt,‖ the guru said. ―For the soul, which has to achieve realization, there is no difference.‖
In 1922, when Bhagavan‘s mother realized Maha Samadhi, it was not Bhagavan who wanted to entomb her, glorify her, or build a temple for her. It was Kavyakantha Ganapati Muni who helped carry her body to the present Ramanashram. He told Bhagavan, ―According to the scriptures and your words in the Ramana Gita, she is a realized soul. Therefore, she should be entombed with all sanctity.‖ He administered this task, and it was around her Samadhi that the Matrabhuteshwara temple in Ramanashram was constructed. He even assigned the temple its name: Matrabhuteshwara, meaning ―the Lord who has become the mother.‖ Thus, the idea of the temple, the nucleus, around which Ramanashram was built, came from Kavyakantha. We therefore owe a great deal to this saint, who silently and gracefully worked in the background all the while.
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Today ,we still have the Veda pArAyana and mAtrubhuteswara pooja carried out in Sri Ramanasramam-Thanks to this farsightedness of this great Sage-kAvyakanta ganapathi muni.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu: Verse 24:

Jada udal nAn ennAthu satchithu
udhiyAthu
Udal aLavA nAn onRu udhikkum -
idaiyil idhu
Chitjada granthi bandham jivan
nutpa mei ahanthai
Ich Samsaram manam eN.

Sri Bhagavan says in this verse that the insentient body that is jada, or mere matter, will not say 'I' on its own. Sat-Chit (Being Awarness) will not arise as 'I'. Between the two, an awareness appears as 'I' with the body as its measure. This, connecting the Chit (Awareness) and the Jada (the matter i.e the body), binds them in a knot (granthi). Know that it is called by diverse names, such as,
Chita-jada-granthi, bondage, jiva,
sukshma sarira (nutpa mei, subtle body), samsara (birth-death cycle) and the mind.

In Who am I? Sri Bhagavan has also told Sivaprakasam Pillai: It is the mind which cannot stand on its own, is also called Sukshma Sarira and Jiva.

The perceived body does not have the nature of engaging itself in activities with the awareness of 'I'. The Atman, the Perceiver, is ever still or immovable, ahcalam, by nature. There is no "other" in Atman. The term "udhiyAthu" in the verse can also be said to mean, it never arises; since it is eternal with no rising and falling. Something appears betwixt the inert body and the fullness of Atman, considering the body as its limit and acting with a sense of doership. This has many names including, Chit Jada granthi.

Sri Bhagavan has given a definition for the mind in Who am I?, which is something quite unique. He has said "mind is a strange power that rises from Atma Swarupam."

The mind is that which immediately
on rising as 'I' creates many appearances. Ego lives relating the Chit to the body and acquires the nature of 'I' - jiva bodha. The eternally free Chit appears to be bound and this is bondage. It is also called dehatma bhava, I am the body notion.

It is the knot that connects the Chit with body and the Jiva created by connecting itself to the light of Atman. Sri Bhagavan has already said in Verse 22, 'madhikku oLi thanthu', the Atman gives light to the mind and it functions with that borrowed light.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Ullada Narpadu - Verse 24:

continues...

By mistaking itself to be particular body, the consciousness (jiva) confines itself within the limits of that body, and feels itself to be separate from all the objects and people, it perceives outside that body. This seemingly separate individual consciousness 'I am the body' is the cause of all multiplicity (Sri Bhagavan says in Verse 26: ahanthai inRel inRu anaithum.) and if one could overcome this body consciousness or ego, then there is no multiplicity. For such a jnani, the world, its people, other beings, objects, all
will appear only as Brahman.

Because this non dual consciousness is entirely distinct from our body and our individual soul, (jiva) it is not limited in any way, nor is it divided. Therefore the Consciousness that exists at the heart of each individual human and other living beings, is essentially the same, single, undivided, non dual and infinite consciousness of Being.

The ego or the mind itself is an imagination, says Sri Bhagavan. There is nothing like mind if its form is investigated, as mentioned in Verse 17 of Upadesa Undiyar:

Manathin uruvai maRavAthu uchava
Manamena onRilai undipara
Marga ner Arkum idhu undipara.

The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. There is no form for mind
excepting the thoughts, hence thoughts are only the swarupam or form of mind. Gaudapada also says,
Jivan kalpayathe poorvam... in his Karika. The Jiva itself is a figment of imagination.

In deep sleep, there is no ego, no mind, no jiva, no body and there is only Atman within. Without this presence of Atman within a body, a person or a being is considered dead.

The granthi or knot is unreal. At the same time, cutting off the knot is too difficult to be accomplished by one's own effort. Guru's grace alone can accomplish it. Wisdom lies in the sole reliance on the saving grace of the guru. Maha Periyaval used to explain this by way of an illustration, apparently paradoxical but eminently practical. A bundle of sticks, bound too tightly with an entangled knot to boot, making it impossible to undo it, is compared to Chit Jada granthi. A second knot, binding the sticks still more tightly is made on the bundle, enabling the first tight fastening to be eased off, and then lending itself to easy removal. Gurus prescribe initially, to ensure the ripeness, or pakva, of the jiva, various but rigorous spiritual disciplines and devotional practices. This is compared to the second knot. Thereafter Jnana Guru compacting a basket of words into a single word, transforming it into its content, instructs the ripe disciple and the content of teaching blossoms and abides as experience in the heart of the devotee and seeker.

PanmArgam Ana pala adi pattenum
oru
Solmargam kaNdu thulangu nAL ennALo?

-Sri Tayumanavar, EnnAL KaNNi,
15.3.

********

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 25:

Sri Bhagavan says how this formless ego, ever depends on a form, in this verse.

UrupaRRi uNdAm urupaRRi niRkum
UrupaRRi uNdu miha Ongum - uru vittu
UrupaRRum; thedinAl Ottam pidikkum
UruvaRRa pei ahanthai or.

The ego, itself formless, roaming like a ghost, comes into being by holding on to a body (form). It stays firm holding on to the body. Holding on to the body (form), it feeds on sense objects, experiences pleasure and pain through the five senses and waxes strong by the strength of the vasanas (innate tendencies) of such experiences. When one body (form) perishes, it grasps another. Its truth sought, it takes to its heels and goes out of existence.

Sri Bhagavan describes in this verse the appearance of the formless ego, its hold, continued stay, experience and growth. Itself having no form, it cannot rise without holding on to the form of a body. The body may be either a gross body or subtle body or both.

Any one of the five kosas (sheaths) mentioned by Sri Bhagavan in Verse 5 is essential for the ego to cling to stay alive. A form is essential for its existence and growth. While it is identified with gross and subtle bodies, it functions through the mind, feeding on knowledge gained through the five senses of perception. Vishaya (matters of the world) are its food. Holding on to any one of the Vasanas, viz., extension of thought-forms or sense objects, it appears, acquires the magnitude of substances clung on to and moves from form to form, thus moving perpetually. In the same way, it takes the form of the body of the 'dreamer' in dream and takes another form after death. This is the seed for unceasing births. Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?: The mind takes the prana and moves from one body to another, at the time of death. The ego associated with one body is transferred to another body. 'I' is only one; but egos are different. Sri Bhagavan says, "Soul (Atman) can be without an ego; but the ego cannot be without the soul. They are like bubbles and the ocean." (Talks No. 163).

As its life is such Sri Bhagavan calls it 'the formless ghost of ego.' While its truth is not sought by inquiry, it lives in flamboyant style. If enquired into, it becomes void of substance. If the ego gives up permanently these adjuncts of form and name of the physical body it is attached to, what remains is the mere Awareness of 'I am', part less space of limitless Consciousness.

Nochur Venkataraman here speaks about a village story. In a village, in the night, a person
while coming back home mistakes a tree for a ghost and tells the story to others. Others add more spices to it saying that they have also seen the ghost. The ghost is wearing a white sari (ghost always wear a white sari) and it asked
him, come here, come here, waving its hand. One bold villager took a torch and went near that place where the ghost is supposed to be. On nearing the 'ghost' he finds only a tree, and there is some white plastic paper stuck to it by the blowing wind. Thus ego becomes nothing, the ghost is no longer there, on investigation.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 25:

continues....

Sri Bhagavan explains this with the help of a story:

At a wedding in a house, an uninvited guest, a stranger to both the parties, masquerading as an intimate friend of the bridegroom, enjoyed all honor, hospitality and sumptuous feasting due to the best man in the bride's house and in the bridegroom's house as well, where he was taken for a member of the bride's party. In the melee of the wedding, nobody knew who he was and he enjoyed life tremendously. At the time of taking leave and the exchange of mutual greetings, inquiries were made about the most popular friend of the bridegroom by the bride's party. Denying all knowledge about him, they exclaimed, 'We thought he belonged to your party.' and a search was launched for him. The moment the impostor heard this, taking in the situation quickly, he coolly gave them the slip and disappeared, never to return again.

"If you seek the ego, you will find it does not exist. That is the way to destroy it."

Sri Bhagavan continued.

"In this connection, I am often reminded of a funny incident which took place when I was in Madurai. A neighbor in an adjoining house anticipated the visit of a thief to his house. He took precautions to catch him. He posted policemen in mufti to guard the two ends of the lane, the entrance and the backdoor to his own house. The thief came as expected and the men rushed to catch him. He took in the situation at a glance and shouted,'Hold him, hold him. There he runs, there, there.' Saying so, he made good his escape. So it is with the ego. Look for it and it will not be found. That is the way to get rid of it."
(Talks No. # 615).

Likewise, so long as inquiry is not made, the terrible and foul play of this ghost will be on. Once its identity is questioned, it takes to the heels leaving no trace behind. 'Who am I?' - the Atma Vichara - is the most potent weapon to accomplish the exit of the ego. The inquiry is the powerful exorcist.

The ego ghost, though exorcised with effort, ever waits for an opportunity to repossess the victim and hold sway as before. Sri Bhagavan once drew the attention of the devotee around him to this adroitness of the ego in a humorous way when the doctor came to provide treatment for his skin ailment to prevent its recurrence. Sri Bhagavan remarked that this is like what the disciple requests his master in Kaivalya Navaneetam. There the disciple beseeches the guru to disclose a measure to prevent the ego ghost from repossessing him, like the devil exorcised is often impounded in an yantra (a mystic contrivance) and is worn like a talisman. The guru then reveals Atma Vichara, carried on relentlessly to its logical end with stern Vairagya, alone can secure a permanent burial of the ego ghost.

Sri Bhagavan commences 'Ulladu' Narpadu, with the first mangala venba, (benedictory verse) with the word Ulladu and ends the treatise with the word 'ahanthai uru azhivathan mukti unar.'

"The Sat is the only Reality. It is realized once the ego is totally annihilated, realize."

*****

Subramanian. R said...

About my previous verse Ulladu Narpadu, 25, and the earlier verses, the following things may be noted:

1. The source is from T.R. Kanakammal and Sri Sadhu Om.

2. About the ahanthai pei, the ego
ghost, vide Verse 25, Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 167:

Moovalahin kaNNumuzhu mohathAR
kattuNdu
Yavuiruthun ahanthaiyei vAzhkai -
mevu piNam
Theeyadu kAttiR chithaiyudala
vesithu
Peyadal alla piRa.

The jivas who are all bound to total ignorance, experience the ego life in the three worlds. This is nothing but the dance of a zombie who has possessed a corpse on a funeral pyre in the cremation ground.

*****

Subramanian. R said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ravi said...

Friends,
If Self alone is what prevents its Perception?Please do not quote from anything read.
Namaskar.

S. said...

salutations to all:

Ravi:
it was wonderful to read sri gaNesan's account on kAvyakaNTa :-))) i sort-of remember saying something on this issue quite a few months ago when a few had pounced on me relying on the very statements so clearly repudiated in sri gaNesan's description :-)

S. said...

salutations to all:

Ravi/Others:

kAvyakaNTa had enough extraordinary talents to unintentionally intimidate as well as arouse the latent jealousies of those around him who couldn't help but feel grossly inferior in his presence. the devotees of bhagavAn were immensely blessed but also most of them were as much victims of their vAsanAs as we are to our samskArAs. any keen observer can effortlessly see the dime-a-dozen feuds/ rivalries/ skirmishes which kept rocking the Asramam even during bhagavAn's lifetime. as no one could have matched kAvyakaNTa in rhetoric, it is not unlikely that those in power 'might' have done whatever they could to malign and bring to disrepute the otherwise impeccable kAvyakaNTa...

this by the way includes the so-called statement of bhagavAn on kAvyakaNTa's realisation! david mentioned: ["...since there are no contemporary records of it the exact wording must be open to doubt. Whether Bhagavan said 'sankalpas' or a 'desire for siddhis' may never be known..."]. everybody, be it arthur osborne or devarAja mudaliAr, claims to have only "heard"! to me it's impossible for the beloved sage whose lips criticised none to have indulged in the crudity of proclaiming the non-realisation of anyone & everyone - that will be akin to the 'sun' talking of the 'dark' :-)))

by the way, guess it wouldn't be out of place to say this: please don't criticise anybody (bhagavAn whom we love never did), for we may never have all the necessary evidence to criticise anyone of this or that. it's preferable to have an incorrect yet 'good' opinion about anyone than the other way round. if at all one wishes to criticise, the dignified way is to learn & study, and then criticise thie 'works' intellectually, i.e., please study sAnkara-bhAshya and criticise it for tenets with which one may disagree, but please don't criticise sankara, the person :-) the same holds for everybody else as well. have never ever read a genuine sage or sAdhakA resorting to criticism of any 'person'...

m said...

Raviji:

Thanks for posting these wonderful reminiscences of Sri Ganesan.


Best,

Ravi said...

Friends,
An Excerpt from Ganesan's book on Sri annamalai swami:
I held Annamalai Swami in high esteem. During my evening walks in the forest with Kunju Swami, along with a few other devotees, including Anuradha, we used to drop by Annamalai Swami‘s Ashram. He would make for us good ginger tea that we enjoyed. We would literally bask in his pristine presence. Annamalai Swami had the habit of ruffling my well-combed hair and placing his forehead to my head every time I met him. To the curiosity of Anuradha, Annamalai Swami explained why he did that to me, quite repeatedly, too: ―In 1938, Venkatoo‘s (my father) family was brought to Tiruvannamalai. This Ganesa, his second son, was a toddler. He had a peculiar habit when he was taken to Bhagavan‘s Hall. He would climb down from Bhagavan‘s sister‘s lap, crawl toward Bhagavan‘s sofa, and try to climb up. Bhagavan‘s attendant, Krishnaswami, would stop him and place him back on Bhagavan‘s sister‘s lap, saying, ‗Do not try to establish any special family relationship here.‘ One day, Bhagavan had sent Krishnaswami on some errand. This baby Ganesan very quickly crawled up to the sofa and climbed on it. So that he could not fall, Bhagavan with his left leg pressed the baby hard into the sofa, and placing his right leg on his crown, ruffled his hair. My Master‘s holy foot was there, Anuradha. I put my head where my Master‘s holy foot touched!‖

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva Temples sung in Saiva Canons:

2. Tiru pAchilAchirAmam:
(now called Tiru vAsi)- 621 216.

This is another lesser known temple among the 200+ temples of Saiva Canons.

This small town is on the way to Gunaseelam from Tiruchiarapalli. The temple is famous for two miracles caused by Tiru Jnana Sambandhar and Sundaramurthi Swamigal.

1. There was one chieftain called Kolli Mazhavan in this area. His only daughter had been suffering from apasmaara, that is, severe epilepsy. Jnana Sambandha was requested by the chieftain to help the girl. The saint sang a decad on Siva of the town and the girl got cured. This is indicated in the verses of the decad.

Venchudar Aduvar thinchiruL mAlai
Venduvar poonpathu veNNool
Nanjudai kaNdar nenjidamAha
NaNNuvar nammai nayanthu
Manjadai mALigai choozhtharu
pAchilAchiramathuRaihinRa
Senchudar vaNNaro painthodi vAdach
chithai seiyvatho ivar seere.

(1.44.3)
The saint asks: You are keeping the fire, and wearing the garland of skulls, having white sacred thread.
You the one who on his own stays in our Heart, is having halahala in His throat. In this town where there are mist-kissed tall palaces, in this PAchilAchirAmam, can you keep this creeper like young girl suffer and be destroyed, O the One
with hue of red fire?

2. Sundaramurti got gold from Siva in this town, among a few other towns. He has also sung about this temple in his 7.11.

Siva is called MARRaRi Varadar
and Uma is called Balasoundari.
The tirtha (tank) is called Brahma
tirtham. The temple tree is VaNNi tree.

Both these saints have sung totally 23 verses on this Siva temple.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Jagrat and Sushupti:

John Grimes - Mountain Path, Oct. -
Dec. 2011:

continues....

Just because Sri Bhagavan declares that whatever is seen by the mind is unreal, does not seem to prove the point. Even if one were to grant this, how does this show that objects are not real in either case? This seems to fly in the face of everyone's everyday experience. Dream objects differ from waking objects in a number of aspects. Objects found in the waking state are practically efficient. One can
actually drink water in the way one can't drink dream water. Dream objects are often bizarre, abnormal, and incredible. In the waking state one is aware that one is awake but in the dream state one is not usually aware that one is dreaming. Dreams take place within the mind / body while the waking state involves the external world. Dream objects are often imprecise and ethereal while waking objects are definite and solid. Dream objects last only so long as the dream lasts, while waking objects are perceived before and after a dream.

Sri Bhagavan clarifies: There is no difference between dream and the waking state except that the dream is short and the waking long. Both are the result of the mind. Because the waking state is long, we imagine that it is our real state. But, as a matter of fact, our real state is Turiya or the fourth state, which is always as it is, and knows nothing of the three states of waking, dream or deep sleep. (Devaraja Mudaliar, Day by Day, 29.10.1945.)

Further, consider the fact that the waking objects outlast the duration of dream objects only from the vantage point of the waking state. What status do waking state objects have from within the dream state is unknown. Why privilege one vantage point over another? In an attempt to undermine what is real, one cannot presuppose that the criterion of the waking state is valid when that is the very thing one is attempting to prove. Isn't it obvious that dream objects last as long as the dream lasts and waking objects last as long as the waking state lasts. No advantage to either side.

Sri Bhagavan remarked: "Because you find the dream creations transitory in relation to the waking state, there is said to be a difference. The difference is only apparent and not real." (Talks # 399).

Again, on this aspect He said, confronted with a person who was objecting that a dream is fleeting and unreal, besides being contradicted by the waking state:

The waking experiences are similar.
You go to sleep and dream a dream in which the experiences of fifty years are condensed within the short duration of the dream, say five minutes. There is continuity in the dream. Which is real now? Is the period covering fifty years of your waking state real or the short duration of five minutes of your dream? The standards of time differ in the two states. That is all. There is no other difference between the experiences. (Talks
# 487).

The objection that dream objects are not similar to waking objects
cannot be supported on the contention that, while objects experienced in the waking state are practically efficient, those seen in a dream are not.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Jagrat and Sushupti: John Grimes:

continues...

When confronted with this objection,

Sri Bhagavan replied: "You are not right. There are thirst and hunger in dream also. You might have had your full and kept over the remaining food for the next day. Nevertheless you feel hungry in dream. This food does not help you. One's dream-hunger can be satisfied only eating dream food. Dream wants are satisfied by dream creations only." (Talks # 400).

Objects of the waking state only have efficiency in the waking state. Dream objects are useful in their own way in the dream state. Dream water cannot quench a waking thirst. But it does quench a dream thirst. And it is equally true, that waking water cannot quench a dream thirst even though it does quench a waking thirst.

Again, listen to Sri Bhagavan:

"A phenomenon cannot be a reality simply because it serves a purpose or purposes. Take a dream for example. The dream creations are purposeful; they serve the dream purpose. The dream water quenches the dream thirst. The dream creation is however contradicted in the waking state. The waking creation is contradicted in the other two states. What is not 'continuous' cannot be real. If real, the thing must ever be real -- not real for a short time and unreal at other times. So it is with the magical creations. They appear real and are yet illusory. Similarly, the universe cannot be real itself - that is to say, apart from the underlying Reality."
(Talks # 315).

"It is like a man satisfying his dream wants by dream creations. There are objects, there are wants
and there is satisfaction. The dream creation is as purposeful as the waking world and yet it is not considered real. Thus we see that each of these illustrations serves a distinct purpose in establishing the stages of unreality. The realized Sage finally declares that in the regenerate state the waking world also is found be as unreal as the dream world is found to be in the waking state. Each illustration should be understood in its proper context. It should not be studied as an isolated statement. It is a link in a chain. The purpose of all these is to direct the seeker's mind towards the one Reality underlying them all." (Talks # 399).

Thus it cannot be said that waking objects alone are useful, fruitful, or practically efficient. Dream objects work in dreams just as waking objects work in the waking state. Thus, the issue is still out on whether the waking state can be proven to be different from the dream state. Another argument is advanced stating that dreams are strange and contain bizarre objects, while the waking state is normal. Sri Sankara addressed this issue in the commentaries on the Brahmasutras and the Gaudapada Karikas:

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Jagrat and Sushupti: John Grimes:

continues.....

"It may be argued that, since the contents of dream are quite different from the objects of waking, they cannot constitute the illustration for proving the illusoriness of the waking world. The dream-contents are strange and abnormal, and are not the replica of what are experienced in waking. It has been said that the things seen in dreams are strange and abnormal. But when and to whom do they appear abnormal? To him who has returned to waking after a dream. In the dream state itself, the contents are not realized to be strange. It is from the side of waking that the dream contents are seen abnormal, but in themselves they are quite normal." (Consciousness in Advaita Vedanta, William Indich, 1980).

Just as a traveler who is well instructed travels to a place and sees there strange things which are but natural to that place, so also the dreamer transported as he is, to the dream world, experiences strange things. Each state or circumstance has its own peculiarity. But that cannot prevent comparison of the waking world with the contents of dream. (Gaudpada Karika, A Study in Early Vedanta, T.M.P. Mahadevan, 1954).

There do exist strange and unusual events and objects in the waking state, even if they may be rarer than the ordinary and commonplace. Sometimes, quite often in fact, dream contents are ordinary too. The Brahma Sutras say: "The dream is only an illusion, for its nature is not completely manifest, compared to waking. (III.2.3).

However, dreams are sometimes quite vivid and lucid while perceptions in the waking state are sometimes fuzzy and unclear. But this is not the crucial issue here. In dreams, the senses function unaided by the external sense organs while the senses function in the waking state. Yet, is it the case that what the external sense organs perceive is Reality? What is important to note is that the logic of one state need not conform to another in order for both to be dream states. Dreams can take many forms and merely because of variations one need not conclude that something is not a dream.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 26:

Sri Bhagavan says that it is the ego that first manifests, manifests also multiplicity. If one could investigate as to what is this ego, then that such a search constitutes real renunciation.

Ahandhai uNdAyin anaithum uNdAhum
Ahandhai inRel inRu anaithum -
ahandhaiye
YAvumAm AdhalAl, yAthu idhu enRu
nAdale
Ovuthal yAvum ena or.

In the second half of Verse 23, Sri Bhagavan points out the obvious truth that everything - that is all duality or multiplicity rises only after our mind or individual sense of 'I' has risen, and He advises us that we should therefore scrutinize with a 'subtle mind' the source from which this 'I' arises. He also adds that when we scrutinize thus, this 'I' will slip away, vanish or become entirely non existent. The inference that we should understand from this statement, and from the subsequent advice in Verse 26, where He says, 'by a subtle intellect scrutinize "where this 'I' rises."

Sri Bhagavan used the word madhi (mind) in Verse 22. The mind is also referred as ego, in this verse. mind, intellect, ahankaram (ego) and chittam (mind stuff) are the fourfold aspects of the same mind.

When the ego, the cause of everything, rises as 'I', all the world appearances and perceptions rise along with it. Jiva, world, people, other living beings, inert objects, are all in the world appearance. If the ego does not rise, all perceptions disappear. The ego verily is all, appearing as all, in multiplicity. To seek, to inquire, and to know its nature and whence it rises is to renounce everything. (Ovudhal = renunciation).

The ego is the reason for the rise and functioning of the entire world phenomena. All the empirical activities and experiences, but for the ego, are not. The ego has got five fold functions, it creates, dissolves, veils, sustains and bestows, like God. It reigns at will, creating and destroying as per its whims and fancies. As the entire world is within the fold of the ego, Sri Bhagavan says, 'ego is all' (ahandhaiye yAvumAm). Sri Bhagavan also says in Arunachala Ashtakam, Verse 7:

InRu aham enum ninaivu enil piRa
onRum
InRu adhu varai piRa ninaivu ezhil
ARku eRku....

Until there is the 'I thought' there can be no other thought...

The true renunciation is not merely
the renouncing of the family, home and the world but the renouncing of the ego, since ego is all.

continued.....

S. said...

salutations to all:

Subramanian:
since the 'Mountain Path' articles are all copyrighted, please do check whether you are unknowingly violating any copyrights in reproducing entire articles.

David Godman said...

S

The policy of The Mountain Path has always been that its articles can be reproduced elsewhere, without prior permission, so long as the source is attributed.

Subramanian. R said...

Ullada Narpadu - Verse 26:

continues....

How to destroy the ego so powerful?
Sri Bhagavan teaches us an easy way. To know by inquiry, its origin is tantamount to destroying it. Ego - a substance devoid of true content, is vanquished on mere enquiry, rendering a witness and a proof needless, as the demand for either can be only from the ego, which would mean the elimination is not total. Until inquired into, it remains as if the solid truth, unshakable in every way, reinforcing itself with experiences gone through and the vasanas registered. On enquiry into its source, it departs, leaving no trace behind.

The wrong conviction that the ego and the world, its own creation (which arise and exist go out of existence together) are real, triggers off the thoughts that obstruct the mind from homing inward by externalizing it. We do not take the world as real in the sense it is, instead mistake the unreal aspects of the world, like differences in names and forms, as real, which veil 'That which is', the Atman. It is absolutely essential to know and realize the unreal as unreal if one has to know the Truth.

All sastraic injunctions advocate that one desirous of liberation must renounce everything with supreme dispassion, and by
progressive process of sravana, manana and nididhyasana on the truths of the sastras, must try to know oneself. Even if one feels that everything has been renounced,
there will still be something left to be given up, for the ego is capable of generating fresh attachments. Hence the first and foremost upadhi to be renounced is the ego. Retaining the ego and renouncing other things is like cutting the branches one by one and in order to remove the tree. By the time some branches are cut, others will sprout and grow. The best way is to cut at the root. Renunciation of ego is renunciation of everything.

(Sources: Smt. T.R. Kanakammal;
Sri Sadhu Om; & Michael James.)

continued....

S. said...

salutations to all:

David:
thanks for the clarification. does the same leniency also hold for all other publications of the Asramam? thanks.

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 26:

continues.....

The apparition of the ego runs away once its origin is inquired into. Of all the disciplines that a sadhak should undertake, the foremost is to enquire and scan the truth and origin of the ego that veils Atman so much and to know that it is devoid of any real substance.

A visitor once asked Sri Bhagavan: "If the ego is unreal and an illusion, who then casts off the illusion?" Sri Bhagavan replied: "The 'I' casts off the illusion of 'I' and yet remains as 'I'. This appears to be a paradox to you; it is not so to the Jnani. Take the case of bhakta. His 'I' prays to the Lord to unite it with Him, which is its surrender. What remains as residuum after this surrender, is the eternal 'I', which is God the Absolute, Paramatman Himself. What has happened to the 'I' which originally prayed? Being unreal, it simply vanished! (Guru Ramana, S.S.Cohen).

Ego is the tempting devil and Sri Bhagavan used to say that the first sin (original sin) of Adam and Ever (that of eating the forbidden fruit) is the identification with the ego, thereby committing Atma hatya, murder of the Self. The ego is both a murderer and impostor. Its birth is most inauspicious. By borrowing the light from Atman, it parades as the Atman, the other inauspicious thing to do. So much so Muruganar always used to mock at people's efforts to look for an auspicious time and date, propitious for starting or doing something good or auspicious. There can be no auspiciousness for the inauspicious ego, which goes in search of auspicious time, whose birth itself is most inauspicious.

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Verse 161:

If the ego is destroyed, one becomes a true devotee. If the ego is destroyed, one also becomes a Jnani. If the ego is destroyed, one becomes God himself. If the ego is destroyed, at that very moment, grace stands revealed.
(Tr. David Godman)

Saint Tayumanavar laments in Mouna Guru VaNakkam, verse 9:

Aankaram Ana kula veda vem pei
pAzhtha
Anavathinum valithu kAN.
ARivinai mayakkidum; nadu aRiya
ottAthu
YAdhu onRu thodinum adhuvAi
thAngAdhu mozhi pesum; Harihara
biramAthi
Thammodu samAnam ennum;
Thadai aRRa theril am suruvANi
polavE
Thannil asaiyAthu niRkum;

Eengu Ar enakku Ar enna pradhapithu
IrAvaNakaram Ahi;
Idhya veLi enkaNum than arasu nAdu
seithu
Irukkum; idhanOdu enneramum
VAngA nilAthu adimai porAda
mudiyumo?
MounOpadesa Guruve!
Mantra guru yoga tantra guruve
moolan
Marabil varu mouna guruve!

The Saint says: AangAram i.e ego with pride is more dangerous than the ego. It infatuates the intellect. It does not make you understand the Real Middle. If one touches this ego, it starts violently reacting and speaking. Even if one becomes equal to Hari, Haran and Brahma, this ego like the axle of the chariot would continue remain without destruction. 'Who is equal to me?', it will bray and it assumes the form of a Ravana. It rules the entire heart without opposition. How can I fight it? This lowly slave cannot remain with it for ever. O Mouna Guru! Yoga Guru! Tantra Guru! O Guru of Moolan's lineage! (...please do something with your grace!)

Verse 26 concluded.

David Godman said...

S

That rule only applies to The Mountain Path. For other publications of Ramanasramam, one should get permission for reproducing long portions of text.

Generally, the ashram seems to have no objection if material from its books are reproduced in small amounts, so long as the original source is attributed.

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Human Gospel of Ramana Maharshi,from the chapter on S S Cohen:
Cohen‘s only income was the meager interest that he was getting from his savings of seven thousand rupees. While living in his hut at Palakothu, every morning he would cook a little rice and vegetable, after which he would go to the Ashram to be with Bhagavan. He would come back only for his lunch. Cohen told me that all through his life, he had never been attracted to variety in food. He ate only to appease his hunger, not his palate. One day in Ramanashram, a very wealthy man happened to offer an extensive and huge feast. Cohen was not invited for that. On that day, when he went to his hut to have his meager meal, for the first time in his life, he was troubled about food. Cohen told me, ―I never thought about food anytime before or after, but on that day, I was suffering. They were all eating such rich food there, and here I was eating this meager meal.‖
When Bhagavan passed by his hut that afternoon, he asked Cohen whether he had eaten his lunch--something he had never done before. Cohen replied that he had eaten just a little rice and vegetable. To which Bhagavan replied, ―Rice and vegetable? That is very good. When I was in Virupaksha cave, for days there would not be any food. On some days somebody would bring some rice. I would add water to the cooked rice and then eat it without salt. You have got rice, vegetables, salt, and yogurt on top of it.‖ Cohen told me, ―After that day, not even once was I distracted by any thought of food.‖ He added, ―That is the advantage when you stay with the Master. Every defect is rooted out once and for all. Living with a master is itself a spiritual sadhana.‖
Cohen was with Bhagavan the whole day and sometimes in at night, too. He said, ―When staying with the Master, you would imbibe his spiritual energy [presence]. At night, when only a few of the serious aspirants would be around him, Bhagavan would tell us about the lives of ancient saints, sages, and mythological stories. But whether Bhagavan talked or was silent, it was supercharged with spiritual energy, and we loved to look at him and soak in that spiritual energy. Cohen once said that such proximity to the Master was very rewarding to him in that stage of his sadhana. When I asked him how this was so, he replied, ―It healed those wounds I had from wasting energy on foolish expectations and upholding false values and hollow ideals. Bhagavan was pouring his grace on me. I was suddenly gripped by an overwhelming urge to surrender myself unreservedly to him to guide me in my spiritual hunger, abandoning all the methods I had previously followed and all the beliefs I had built my hopes on. My fate and all that I was, from that very moment I passed it on to the sacred hands of my Master, Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi.‖

continued....

Ravi said...

Ganesan on S S Cohen continued....
Three years of austere sadhana followed. Cohen started going on the eight-mile circuit of the hill every other day. When I asked him why, he told me, ―During those three hours of walking round the hill, there is no thought; only Self-attention. There are no physical or mental distractions. The holy hill helps focus attention on your Self without volition and with greatest ease.‖ This helped him establish inner silence and solitude. When external activities started attracting and distracting him, he went to Bhagavan and said, ―I want to intensify my sadhana. To do that, I want to go on a Yatra, a pilgrimage.‖ Bhagavan asked him if he had made any arrangements for it. Cohen replied, ―Bhagavan, I have not made any arrangements. I am going as a sadhu. I will dress like an Indian; eat vegetarian food, visit temples, and sacred places, keep myself secluded, and focusing attention toward my Self.‖
Cohen toured all over southern India. He visited many temples. Cohen, like Maurice Frydman, had a truly questioning and logical approach to spiritual pursuit. Initially, Cohen was very intellectual. The intellect, being the eye of the mind, can take an aspirant to a state of perfect theoretical understanding of the Self. But it can never provide the aspirant even an iota of the taste of it! At this stage, a true aspirant gets frustrated and disappointed for he can, at the most, experience only a vacuum. This produces in him a ―dry‖ state. The sage recognizes this depression and helps the aspirant to transcend it. One way is to guide him to go on a pilgrimage. During such travels, the aspirant gets ample opportunities to recognize, within their self, the actual shift from theory to practically experiencing the Truth. Bhagavan helped Cohen to achieve this transcendence by approving his pilgrimage across South India. This brought about a tremendous change in his spiritual life.
This is how Cohen interpreted to me his successful transcendence from ―dry‖ saturation in theory to his abidance in the still Self within, as Love, as the Heart: During his pilgrimage, he met Swami Ramdas at his Anandashram in Kerala. Ramdas, full of love and joy, was frequently heard singing Ram‘s name. In the presence of Ramdas, who had his realization in the presence of Ramana Maharshi, joy permeated the very air. For the first time, Cohen understood the real nature of bhakti: it is pure, inward joy. When he walked out of Anandashram, he walked out as a happy, joyful man still pursuing jnana marga. He went to Kanyakumari and there, he started feeling his separation from Bhagavan. Cohen told me, ―This emotional pining for Bhagavan was the gift of Swami Ramdas to me.‖ Lying down on the sands by the ocean, he started crying, ―Oh Bhagavan, how mighty you are and how sublime and all-pervasive is your immaculate purity. With what tender emotions do we, your disciples, think of your incomparable qualities, your gentleness, your serene, adorable countenance, your cool refreshing smile, the sweetness of the words that come out of your mouth, the radiance of your all-pervasive love, and your equal vision toward one and all… even toward diseased, stray animals!‖
Thus pining for his guru, Cohen came back to Ramanashram. He started noting down the conversations and dialogues between Bhagavan and his devotees.

continued....

Ravi said...

Ganesan on S S Cohen continued...
Since taking notes in the hall was not acceptable at that time, he would memorize whatever conversations took place there, and then go to his room and note it all down in his notebook. It was this notebook that was later published as Guru Ramana. He was also the only person to note down in his diaries the last two years of Bhagavan‘s illness. Being a homeopath, he had the knowledge to write accurately about the various treatments tried and the surgical operations performed. Meanwhile, he was starting to see glimpses of bliss, which Bhagavan had said was the very nature of the Self. It had taken a long time for Cohen, but being an intellectual, he still had doubt. He had read in the scriptures that the ultimate realization is always instant and sudden. So he went to Bhagavan and asked, ―Bhagavan, the scriptures say that the final realization is a sudden and instant event.‖ Bhagavan smiled at Cohen and said, ―Yes! But it should not be forgotten that before that, there must be a maturing, which is a slow process like the ripening of a fruit on a tree.‖
He recorded the following on April 12, 1950, two days before Bhagavan dropped the body: ―It looks like we are on the eve of doomsday. The eve of the day, on which we are destined to be deprived of everything we hold worth living for; our refuge, our love, our hope, the greatest treasure, the precious life of our great Master. Maharshi is still conscious and at times, speaks. But until the last, he asks for nothing, expresses no opinion on what should and should not be done for him, does not complain of any pain, except when lifted or touched on a painful spot. Then, and then only as if to give a piece of information, he would remark, ‗There is not a spot that is not painful to the touch.‘ Then the attendant takes greater care in handling him, especially today when the pain is so severe.‖
After Bhagavan dropped the body, Cohen helped the Ashram management. There were a lot of quarrels and feelings of enmity toward the management. Most of the old devotees had left. From 1950 to 1951,the situation was so precarious that there was no breakfast, tea, or coffee—only lunch and dinner. Soon, the Sarvaadhikari, Niranjanananda Swami, also dropped the body. My father became the next president. He did not know English. So Cohen supported my father, studiously writing the many letters and defense affidavits required for the numerous legal cases against the Ashram. Cohen was immensely helpful in getting the Ashram back on its feet. Being the true renunciate that he was, when everything was almost settled, he passed on his small cottage to Mrs. Talyearkhan, another devotee with whom he was sharing it. He also had a small piece of land next to my father‘s land. He bequeathed it to my father without any condition. Not wanting to be a burden to the Ashram, he left and settled in Vellore. When I asked him why he left Arunachala and settled in Vellore, he replied, ―My asthma became worse. The weather in Vellore, though just fifty-two miles from here, is more conducive.‖

Continued....

Ravi said...

Ganesan on S S Cohen continued....
There too, Cohen led an independent life. He never asked for help or money from anyone and lived a very, very frugal life. When aspirants visited his house, he would fill them up with stories about Bhagavan and his teachings. One of the devotees, Dorab Framji, would visit him regularly. On one such visit, Cohen was not to be seen. Searching for him, he found Cohen lying down in his bathroom. He had been lying in the bathroom for seven hours, as he could not get up. So Dorab put him up in his house at Ramana Nagar, opposite to the Ashram, with the request that I send him food. After a year, he again fell in the bathroom and was not discovered for many hours. Fortunately, Dorab came that day to Tiruvannamalai and found Cohen lying down in the bathroom. He came running to me saying, ―We cannot leave him without assistance. Let him stay in the Ashram.‖ In the Ashram, he fell one night from his bed and thought he had broken his legs. I brought both orthopedic and Ayurvedic doctors to examine him. After checking him they both agreed that nothing was broken. But Cohen had convinced himself that his legs were broken and that he could not walk. So I obtained for him a wheel chair and an assistant called Kannan, who served him until the end.
Cohen was very kind to me. If by five in the evening I was still in the Ashram office, engrossed in work, he would come by and urge me to stop for the day. If I protested, he would scold me, ―What is all this work? You have come here for sadhana. We have come here for our Master. All this service to the institution, to the Master, these will all bring you name, fame, popularity, and comfort, but you will be nowhere near emancipation. You will do sadhana. Wake up, Ganesan! Wake up as I have done. I did enough service and then went into solitude. Go into solitude. Plunge into sadhana.‖ He told me repeatedly, ―Do not be duped by all these imaginary convictions that you are serving the guru or helping the institution.‖
continued....

Ravi said...

Ganesan on S S Cohen continued....
For reasons unknown, Cohen‘s mind became outwardly disturbed in his last days. Whenever I went to his room after my work at the office, he would tell me again and again, ―Beware! Beware! Go back to sadhana. All this work is of no use to you. I am interested in you, Ganesan. You have come for emancipation.‖ Immediately after saying this, he would continue, ―Your father has put me on the seventh floor. I have no legs, so how can I climb to the seventh floor?‖ The first time this happened, I was shocked: ―Cohen, you are one of the greatest intellects that has come to our Master. What are you talking about? There is not even a first floor in Ramanashram!‖ Since he continued to blabber, I shook him to get him out of what I thought was his delirium. At this, his eyes brightened up and this is what he said: ―Ganesan, just as in old age, the body goes beyond control and uncontrollably urinates or defecates; the mind also sometimes loses control. But since we are neither the body nor the mind, it does not matter.‖
To that I asked him, ―Then, what state are you in, Mr. Cohen?‖ He replied, ―I am in bliss. I am in total bliss.‖ Next minute, he was blabbering again: ―You put only one servant, Kannan. But, there are nine Kannans in my room. How can I sleep alone in the room?‖ Bewildered, I shook him again. He looked at me steadily and said, ―Why do you listen to my mind? These are all in my mind. I reminded you not to listen to my mind.‖ Since the intellectual aspect was very important in his life, his mind was now unwinding. Similarly, when some of the old devotees had to go through intense physical suffering in their last days, I would ask them, ―Why should someone like you get such a disease?‖ They would invariably reply that it was because they had paid too much attention to the body and its comforts and now it was returning the favor! Cohen was the first devotee I saw who actually demonstrated the bliss that was beyond the mind. When I asked him why he blabbered Cohen answered, ―When I turn my attention outward, it blabbers. When I turn my attention inward, it is bliss, Ganesan. I bless you, that you should never have this affectation from the body and the mind. I bless you.‖
Sometimes when he cried, I would console him, ―Cohen, why do you cry? You will pass away smoothly into death, as peacefully as you slip into deep sleep.‖ A very humorous man, he would then give me a smile and say, ―I know, Ganesan, why you say this. You are saying this so that after I die, you can tell everyone else that Cohen died exactly as you predicted!‖

continued....

Ravi said...

Ganesan on S S Cohen continued...
For some reason, Cohen was very particular that his body was to be buried in the Ashram. My father and I assured him it would be done. Cohen even showed me the spot where he should be buried. Sometimes, when I was not at the Ashram, he would take Kannan to that spot and instruct him: ―Dig a pit here and drop my body into it, now. Then, fill it up with earth.‖ Frightened, Kannan would shout: ―Oh, no, no! That is a sin!‖ Cohen would plead with him: ―It is all right, Kannan! Don‘t worry. This is the place where I will be buried anyhow when I am dead. I am only asking you to do it now when I am alive. That‘s all! No sin would come to you!‖
I traveled away on Ashram work in 1980. At that time, Cohen dropped the body. We don‘t know why Cohen wanted his body to be buried in the Ashram. Unfortunately, despite the assurance given to him, his body was taken outside and given a common burial. When I came back from my tour, I said, ―Cohen was one of the greatest devotees of Bhagavan. He is a spark from Arunachala! Could we not fulfill this small wish of his?‖ I did not know how many would approve of it, but the fact is that I had his body exhumed and buried where his tomb is now in the Ashram. That night, I slept happily, knowing that Cohen‘s wish was fulfilled.
We should not waste thoughts on why he asked to be buried in the Ashram, if he was beyond his body and mind. Instead, we should look at how it happened. When he was in Vellore, he had given money to a Christian institution so that his last days should be taken care of by them. What forced him to fall in the bathroom, and then brought him back to the Ashram? It would have appealed to his sense of humor that although he wanted his body to be buried in the Ashram, his body was buried outside at first. The ongoing playful leela brought his body back to be reburied inside the Ashram.
continued....

Ravi said...

Ganesan on S S cohen conclusion...
When his book, Guru Ramana was ready, since Ramanashram could not publish it for lack of funds, Cohen published it himself in 1952. I wanted to bring it out as an Ashram publication. I went to Vellore and made a request for its publishing rights. He agreed. When in 1962 I brought out the second edition of Guru Ramana, for no known reason, I sent a copy to Dorab‘s elder sister, who was equally or more, a devotee of Bhagavan. At that time she was having serious family problems. She had a small room with Bhagavan‘s picture, which she worshiped. Her family and relatives objected and wanted to throw away the picture of Bhagavan. She said, ―You can do anything to me. But just give me half an hour to worship Bhagavan‖. When she was denied even that, she decided to question and take Bhagavan to task, by locking herself in that small room. She prayed, ―Bhagavan, prove to me that you are there, that you are my Guru.‖
I have visited her in that big apartment. Between the front door and the floor, there is an inch or two of space. Her meditation room is in a straight line from the front door, and the meditation room door, too, has a similar space beneath it. The postman whisked the parcel I had sent her through that space. It went straight into her room and hit her forcefully. The parcel was also amazingly open in such a way that when she looked down, she could see the title, Guru Ramana! To this day, I do not know why I sent the only copy to the lady in Mumbai instead of to anyone else.
Cohen‘s life is our life. It is our own life. It is like breathing. Breathing is common to all, but it is individualized. In the same way, Cohen‘s sadhana-oriented life is everyone‘s life. Reading about him and absorbing it awakens in us that pure awareness which Cohen aspired to and lived all his life. This very bright spark has gone back to the ―Hill of the Holy Fire.‖ Samuel Suleiman Cohen has been reabsorbed into Arunachala.
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Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

3. Nallur - 614 208.

This small town is on the bus route of Thanjavur to Kumbakonam. The devotee should get down at a stop called Plantain Shop stop and reach the temple.

The Sivalingam is swayambu, appeared on its own. The image of copper color. Between sunrise and sunset, the image changes color five times. Usually it is seen as of copper color. Saint Manikkavachagar sings in Siva Puranam, Tiruvachakam - NiRangaLor einthudayAi...One who has got five colors.

Siva is called Kalyana Sundarar or Panchvarneswarar, (one with five colors). Uma is called Kalyana Sundari. The tirthams (wells) are
seven wells. The temple tree is Bilva tree.

This temple has been mentioned by
Jnana Sambandha in 33 verses and Saint Tiru Navukkarasar in 22 verses.

The hues of Siva Lingam have been observed to be:

6.00 am to 8.15 am - Copper color
8.16 am to 11.30 am - Rose color
11.31 am to 2.00 pm - molten Gold
2.31 pm to 5.00 pm - Emerald Green
5.01 pm to 6.00 pm - mixed color

In uttarayana - reddish glow
In dakshinayana - whitish glow

Since Siva is said to have shown to Agasthya His marriage functions (since the saint could not go to Himalayas), He is called Kalayana Sundarar. In the inner sanctum, on the wall behind, there are pictures of Siva and Uma along with Vishnu and Brahma, in plaster of paris.

Like in Sri Vaishnava temples, the priests place the golden cone like thing with feet of Siva, (sadAri) on the heads of the devotees.

Among the 63 saints, Amarneedhi Nayanar, his wife and son are said to have attained liberation in this temple.

Jnana Sambandha sings in 1.86.9:

VaNNa malarAnum vaiyam aLanthAnum
NaNNalariyAnai nallur perumAnaith
ThaNNa malar thoovi thALhaL
thozhuthetha
ENNum adiyArkatku illai idukkaNe.

There is no misery for the devotees who place flowers and pray to the Lord of Nallur. He is beyond the reach of Brahma (who sits on a flower) and Vishnu (who measured the three worlds with His three steps).

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Jagrat and Sushupti: John Grimes:

Mountain Path, Oct. - Dec. 2011:

continues.....

As Sri Bhagavan remarked: "Again, consider it from another point of view: You create a dream body for yourself in the dream and act with that dream body. The same is falsified in the waking state. At present you think that you are this body and not the dream body. In your dream this body is falsified by the dream body. So that, you see, neither of these bodies is real because each of them is true for a time and false at other times. That which is real must be real forever. But you say 'I'. This 'I'- consciousness is present all through the three states. There is no change in it. That is alone real. The three states are false. They are only for the mind. It is the mind that obstructs your vision of your true nature. Your true nature is that of infinite spirit. That was the case in your sleep. You note the limitations in the other two states. What is the difference due to? There was no mind in sleep, but it exists in the dream and the waking states. The feeling of limitation is the work of the mind. What is mind? Find it. If you search for it, it will vanish by itself. For it has no real existence. It is comprised of thoughts. It disappears with the cessation of thoughts." (Talks # 328).

Another aspect of dreams Sri Bhagavan remarked about was the charge that a person makes no conscious effort to get rid of a dream and awaken. Dreams come to an end spontaneously without effort on one's part. If the waking state is a dream, then why doesn't it come to an end without any effort on our part? Why should an individual attempt to realize it?

"Your thinking that you have to make an effort to get rid of this dream of the waking state and your making efforts to attain or realize awakening are all parts of the dream. When you attain Jnana you will see there was neither the dream during sleep, nor the waking state, but only yourself and your real state." (Day by Day, 08.09.1945, morning.)

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Jagrat and Sushupti: John Grimes:

continues....

"In dream, you have no inkling that it is a dream and so you don't have the duty of trying to get out of it by your effort. But in this life you have some intuition, by your sleep experience, by reading and hearing that this life is something like a dream, and hence the duty is cast on you to make an effort and get out of it. However, who wants you to realize the Self, if you don't want it? If you prefer to be in the dream, stay as you are."
(Day by Day 03.01.1946, afternoon.)

It has been said that the waking world can be distinguished from the dream world because in the waking state one is aware that one is awake, but one is not aware that one is dreaming in the dream state (except perhaps in what are called lucid dreams). The reason given for this claim is that objects are external to oneself when one wakes while, upon waking, one believes the dream objects were internal. Sri Bhagavan pointed out that it is only upon awakening that one realizes that the dream objects which had appeared as external to the dreamer in the dream, were actually internal. In a similar manner, upon Self Realization, true awakening, one realizes that the objects of the world that were perceived as external are really internal. Even as the waking state reverses the experience of the dream state, so does Self realization reverses the experience of the waking state. In this way, the waking and dreaming states are not less but more compatible.

How does one know that there are external physical objects in the waking state and merely internal mental objects in a dream? When dreaming, objects are perceived as real and as external to the perceiver. It is only upon waking that one renounces these
perceptions as being mere mental creations, internal, and illusory. Judged from the perspective of within a dream, there is no way to tell that such perceptions are internal. Then the question may arise if a truly awakened person, a
Jivanmukta, has dreams, because it is said that Jivanmuktas do not sleep like ordinary individuals. Sri Bhagavan said:

"If the Jnani can have a waking state, what is the difficulty about his having a dream state? But of course, as his waking state also will be different from the ordinary
man's waking state, so his dream state also will be different from the ordinary man's dream state. Whether in waking or in dream, he will not slip from his real state, which is sometimes called the fourth or Turiya state."
(Day by Day, 19.03.1945, afternoon.)

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Jagrat and Sushupti: John Grimes:

continues...

Sri Bhagavan:

"Of course, the jivanmuktas are having brahmakara vritti always, even during sleep. The real answer to the question, and the whole set of questions, is that the Jnani has neither waking, dreaming, or sleeping states, but only turiya state. It is the Jnani that sleeps. But he sleeps without sleeping or is awake while sleeping." (Day by
Day, 28.11.1946.)

ThoongAmal thoongi sukam
peruvathum ekkAlam?

Thus, we see that Sri Bhagavan often used dream analogy to elucidate how maya operates as well as to reveal the unreality of the world. In fact, it seemed to be His favorite analogy. He did this not to formulate any intellectual theory, but to direct the seeker's mind towards the one Reality underlying both the waking and dreaming states. The heart of the issue rests in His contention that the entire universe, with all its infinite multiplicity, is built upon a single mental thought, the I-thought. A person mistakes the "I" for 'me'. (See Ulladu Narpadu, Verse 26: 'Ahandhai uNdAyin anithum undAhum, ahandhai inRel inRu anaithum'...)

There remains the problem that if the waking state is similar to the dream state, then why doesn't the waking world disappear when one wakes up, that is becomes enlightened? Yet, as we just saw in
Sri Bhagavan's own words, the Jnani continues to perceive the world even after Self Realization has occurred -- though the Jnani perceives the world as Brahman rather than apart as separate and distinct object. To this objection Sri Bhagavan replied:

"There are different methods of approach to prove the unreality of the universe. The example of the dream is one among many. Waking, dreaming, and deep sleep are all treated elaborately in the scriptures in order that the
Reality underlying them might be revealed. It is not meant to accentuate differences among the three states. The purpose must be kept clearly in view.

"How can the world be false when, after being repeatedly declared to be false, one cannot resist satisfying one's desires from the world? It is like a man satisfying his dream wants by dream creations. There are objects, there are wants, and there is satisfaction. The dream creation is as purposeful as the waking world and yet it is not considered real.

"Thus, we see that each of these illustrations serves a distinct purpose in establishing the stages of unreality. The realized Sage finally declares that in the regenerate state the waking world also is found to be unreal as the dream is found to be the Jagrat (waking) state.

"Each illustration should be understood in its proper context. It should not be studied as an isolated statement. It is a link in a chain. The purpose of all these is to direct the seeker's mind towards the one Reality underlying them all." (Talks $ 399)

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 27:

NAn udhiyathu uLLa nilai nAm adhuvAi
uLLanilai\
NAn udhikkum sthAnamathai nAdAmal -
nAn udhiyath
Than izhappaich chArvathu evan
sArAmal thAn adhuvAm
Than niliayil niRpathu evan sARRu?

The pure state where 'I' (the ego self) with 'I am the body' sense does not arise is the state where we are That -- the form of Atman. Without seeking and inquiring to know the place where 'I' rises from, how can one gain the state of non-rising of the ego - the extinction of the ego? Without accomplishing extinction of the ego, how can one abide firmly in one's own form? Tell me!

The earlier verse (Verse 26) speaks of the extended manifestation of the ego, while this one speaks of the loftiness of the state of non rising of the ego or the loss of ego and the exalted Fullness that survives the extinction of the ego self. NAn, 'I', jada is Chitjada granti. If nAn (jada) is lost, Chit alone will remain. and there is no jada. When the ego is swallowed up, one becomes one with That, and that is the vision of the Self and the vision of God. As ego is all, the world, jiva and Iswara all rise simultaneously with ego's rise. Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?: What is Real is one's own Swarupuam. The world, the jiva and Iswara are only superimpositions like silver in the oyster shell. These three rise together and disappear together.

They veil the Truth and the state of Truth unveiled is the state of peaceful Bliss. It is characterized by the absence of the ego and the unreal manifestations of the mind, with various predilections of the mind like desire, anger, etc., the dyads and triads of the world, and the residual impact of the experience of the sense objects. The state is called "the state of non rising of the ego", the state where we, the very form of pure Self, Sat Chit Ananda, shines everywhere in all splendor. A state extolled as Kaivalyam or Brahma Nirvanam.

Sri Bhagavan has used the word 'thannizhappu', the extinction of the ego. KaNNudaiya VaLLalar says in Verse 2 of Ozhivil Odukkam:

thannizhappai enna kaRRu sAdhippAn
sadgurvAm
Mannu perum seeya madha yAnai -
than nadai mel
Sorpanathe thonRiya thudippaRRuk
kevalamAi
niRpathu pol pArAn enin.

How can the extinction of the ego be achieved through learning? What
learning is of avail? When the Sadguru, the great lion appears in the dream of a mad elephant, it will lose all its ahankAram, stay quiet at its natural state?


The extinction of ego is extinction of Jivabodham. When Jivabodham is extinct, Sivabodham rises on its own.

Saints and Mahatmas who have explained the state of Atman say that as It transcends conception. It is beyond the reach of mind and speech. It is one non dual bliss, serene peace, filling everywhere, with no space left to be filled up. But Sri Bhagavan has compacted the truth of that state in a single sentence, sculpting is, 'The state of non rise of the ego is that state in which we are.' Here, 'the state of non rise of the ego' is the sadhana and 'we are That' is the ultimate experience. With the death of ego, the experience of the supreme Self is born.

continued....

Ravi said...

essR.Subramanian/Friends,
"How does one know that there are external physical objects in the waking state and merely internal mental objects in a dream? "

It is indeed true that the subject-Object relationship in a dream state is on par with the waking state.Yet the Dream state can equally be considered as a rehash of the Waking state only.
For instance Does Ravi or Subramanian assume a different Name in a Dream?In Dream,we mostly see characters known to us in Waking state.The 'Unknown' Objects are also in a sense 'Known' only.In other words,it is not as if a new world is created but it is as if there is a rehash of the Waking state experience only;some variations and variety may be added by way of a 'freewheeling' mind.
The Dream State is a clear proof that it is the mind that 'sees', 'Hears','Touches' and not the sense organs by themselves.
This will necessarily imply that the Prana(Life Force) has to be active animate the 'Tracks' of the mind to give rise to this 'seeing','Hearing' and 'Feeling'.

At its most dormant level,there still is 'I am Ravi' in the Deep Sleep state as well,just like the Computer is put to sleep mode,the moment any key is depressed,it springs to life by loading all the instances.
Even If The 'I am The Ravi' idea is not consciously present in Deep Sleep State,it still seems to be present in an 'unconscious way',for otherwise there is no possibility of responding when someone tries to wake us by calling our Name.
In this way,we may say that the 'Waking','Dream' and 'Sleep' state are still part of the World Process.
In this sense,the Shrishti- Drishti vAdA may be on par with Drishti-Shrishti vAdA and not necessarily an inferior perspective.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 27:

continues....

Except our essential Self consciousness 'I am", everything that we know or experience is just a thought or image that we have formed in our mind, by our power of imagination. Therefore everything is just an expansion of our own mind, our ego, or our root thought 'I'. This is why Sri Bhagavan states emphatically that 'our ego is indeed is everything.' Why does He then proceed to say that examining or scrutinizing our ego in order to know what it is, is renouncing or casting off everything? Examining our ego is similar to examining the seeming snake that we see lying on the ground in the half light of dusk.
When we look carefully at the 'snake', we will will discover that what we were seeing was 'never really a snake, but was only a rope.' Similarly, when we scrutinize our ego or individual sense of self hood with a keen and subtle power of attention (Sri Bhagavan said NuN madhiyAl in verse 23 and is going to say koorntha madhiyal in the verse 28), we will discover that what we have always been aware of as 'I' was never really a limited adjunct bound consciousness, but was always only the unlimited adjunct free consciousness 'I am'. Just as the snake as such never really existed, so our ego as such has never really existed. and just as the sole reality underlying the illusory appearance of the snake was merely a rope, so the sole reality underlying the illusory appearance of our ego is only our own true Self, our adjunct free consciousness, 'I am'. therefore our real state, "nAm adhuvAi uLLa nilai", will be discovered when the non existence ego is investigated or sought after. This is also the state of "nan udhiyathu uLLa nilai".

Sri Bhagavan uses in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 716, the word 'karu',
the embryo to describe the ego. This embryonic ego is the substance from which all our dualities and multiplicities are born.

Therefore, since we are in truth always only that absolute reality, our aim should be to experience ourself as such, and in order to experience ourself thus, we must seek the source of the ego, (SthAnam) and we must subside in our being, remaining without rising to think anything.

Sri Bhagavan says merely "adhuvAi",
'as That', without mentioning any words like Brahman or Atman.

AdhuvAnAl adhuvAhi adhuve sollum.....

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 27

continues...

The state of non rise of ego is the state of loss of extinction of individuality. While Sri Bhagavan merely refers to that sublime state as 'we are That', a jnana-seeker can say it is Brahman, a bhakta can say it is God, a yogi can say it is Paramatma and a karmayogi can say it is Swarga, or Sivapuram or Kailasa or Vaikunata or Chintamani Gruha. 'That' is everything, even all these names.

The state of loss of oneself is not void as misconstrued by some. It is the state of fullness (Poornam or PoonRam, as Sri Bhagavan says in Verse 30, ibid.). It is the state of perfect bliss, and it is content of the mahavakya Tat Tvam Asi.

The texts on Jnana sastras name the state variously as Sahaja Sthithi, Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi, Stitha Prajna. Sri Bhagavan merely says as "tannilai", in Verse 2 (benedictory verse) and "nAn aRRa nilai" in Verse 3.

It is also called Turiya meaning it transcends all the three states known to us. The ego is active in waking and dreaming but merges in nescience in deep sleep and becomes dormant. The ego becomes totally extinct only in the subtratum of all the three states. The mere presence of 'I am' is the substratum or the basis and support, of all the three states, namely, jagrat, swapna and sushupti, among which the jiva continuously oscillates, oblivious of the basis - his own swarupam. The supreme state of being the substratum, attained with the elimination of the illusory ego, was present even when the ego existed. The price we pay to be in our true form - simply Being - is the loss of the ego, a mere trifle - the loss of the phantom. But what is won is the priceless gift of being the Self. Diving deep into the place of origin of the ego, egolessness is attained. This is the path of Vichara. The mind that is dissolved in the Self - the substratum - will never rise again. Like a river which after joining the ocean cannot reverse its course. Thus the state of abidance in the Being becomes everlasting.

Verses 27, 28, and 29 delineate the Lakshana or characteristics of the Vastu - the Self. Verse 27 besides indicating the Vastu lakshana, provides a technique for reaching It. Hence these are considered as the most important verses forming the core of Ulladu Narpadu, otherwise called Maha Yoga.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Ajata Siddhanta, Vivarta Siddhanta and Srishti-drishi siddhanta:

Dear Ravi,

Sri Bhagavan knew that Ajata is the supreme truth, but, He actually taught the doctrine of illusory appearance (vivara siddhanta or drishti-srishti siddhanta) as an explanation for the world manifestation, since He knew that this would provide the maximum practical benefit to the devotees. When the devotee truly understands that the world is an illusory projection of the mind, his mind no longer moves towards it. When this happens, the mind goes back to its source and disappears, leaving the ajata experience in which one knows directly that the world never existed or was created except in imagination. The doctrine of simultaneous creation is therefore a working hypothesis that enables seekers to find the ultimate truth.

While Sri Bhagavan occasionally stated that Ajata was the ultimate truth, and while He sometimes said to theists that God created the world, as Verse 83 of Guru Vachaka Kovai stats, He preferred to propound the doctrine of illusory appearance to most people since He knew that this was the "truth that bestows the ulitmate benefit."

What does Verse 83 of Guru Vachaka Kovai state?

83. Though the venba verse that begins, (Verse 1 of Ulladu Narpadu)
'Because we perceive the world...' Guru Ramana - who teaches the one true beneficial attainment (jnana)O that is needed by the people of the world - declared, out of His love for us, the doctrine of illusory appearance to be the truth that bestows the ultimate benefit, avoiding the consideration of other doctrines.

When Sri Bhagavan spoke about theories of creation, His comments would generally fall into one of the three categories:

1. Ajata Siddhanta - Ajata means 'non creation' or 'no causality', and siddhanta is a doctrine or system of thought. Ajata siddhanta says, contrary to all common sense, that creation never happened at all. Sri Bhagavan declared on several occasions that this was His experience, and the true experience of all who have realized the Self.

2. Vivarta Siddhanta: the doctrine of illusory appearance. This is the doctrine that states that the world
appearance is an illusory one, and that it comes into existence as an unreal projection of the one who sees it. This is also called Drishti Srishti Siddhanta.

3. Srishti-drishti siddhanta: This covers all the traditional theories of the world in so far as it posits a created world, brought into existence either by God or natural process, that existed before a witness of it is born, and which will continue to exist even after that witness has died.

Muruganar says in his Pozhippurai: The Self, consciousness, is the material and efficient cause for the appearance of the world. When the rope (the material and efficient cause) appears as an illusory snake, this is vivarta siddhanta. The meaning is, just like the snake in the rope, the world is an 'imaginary appearance, kalpita in reality, consciousness.

People who lose hold of the state of Self mistake themselves for the seer of the world, and regard the perceived world as real. Such people, cannot get peace through being taught ajata siddhanta. To remove the idea that the world exists apart from them, an idea, that confounds and distresses them, vivarta siddhanta is taught. So, there is really no contradiction between these two.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Ajata and other siddhantas:

continues...

From Day by Day entry dated 15.3.1946, afternoon:

The letter went on to say, 'Ramana
Maharshi is an exponent of ajata doctrine of Advaita Vedanta. Of course, it is a bit difficult.'

Sri Bhagavan remarked on this:

Somebody has told Him so. I do not teach only the ajata doctrine. I approve of all schools. the same truth has to be expressed in different ways to suit the capacity of the hearer. The ajata doctrine says, 'Nothing exists except the one Reality. There is no birth or death, no projection of the world or drawing in (of it), no sadhaka, no mumukshu (seeker of liberation), no mukta (liberated soul), no bondage, no liberation. The one unity alone exists ever.'

'To such as find it difficult to grasp this truth and who ask, 'How can we ignore this solid world we see all around us?' the dream experience is pointed out and they are told, 'All that you see depends on the seer. Apart from the seer, there is no seen.'

'This is called drishti-srishti vada, or the argument that one first creates out of his mind, and then sees what his mind itself has created.

'To such as cannot grasp even this and who further argue, 'the dream experience is so short, while the world always exists. The dream experience was limited to me. But the world is felt and seen not only be me, but by so many, and we cannot call such a world non existent', the argument called srishti-drishti vada is addressed and they are told, 'God first created such and such a thing, out of such and such an element and then something else, and so forth.'
That alone will satisfy this class.
Their mind is otherwise not satisfied and they ask themselves, 'how can all geography, all maps, all sciences, stars, planets and the rules governing or relating to them and all knowledge be totally untrue?' To such it is best to say, 'Yes, God created all this and so you see it.'

Dr. M. said, 'But all these cannot be true. Only one doctrine can be true.'

Sri Bhagavan said: 'All these are only to suit the capacity of the learner. The absolute can be only one.

------

Ravi,

1. I have posted these comments though you know all the three principles. The idea is to use this opportunity for the benefit of other members of the blog, who want a detailed clarification.

2. Sri Bhagavan approved all the three schools. He never said, one is inferior to another. These are told by scriptures to suit the capacity of different seekers.

3. There are some interesting verses in Guru Vachaka Kovai on all these. About them in a different post.

(Source: Tr. Guru Vachaka Kovai and Muruganar's Pozhippurai in some places - David Godman. Day by Day of Devaraja Mudaliar and Talks.)

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Ajata and other siddhantas:

Sri Bhagavan says: Manifestation of previously accumulated vasanas (ancient) is Creation. Destruction of Vasanas is the end of creation. (Padamalai verse 2274)

The beginningless ego consciousness present in the Heart, is the seed of this world (Padamalai 1396)

Sri Bhagavan also quoted Verse 32 of Vaithathya Prakarana of Gaudapada's Karika to some devotee* when this topic was raised.
(*Sri Madhavatirtha.)

Muruganar says as Pozhippurai to Verse 89 of Guru Vachaka Kovai:

All things that appear as cause and effect are only the workings of the mind. If you argue otherwise, the debate as to whether the tree came first from the seed or the seed came from the tree will end in an unresolvable circular argument. This has been well explained in Mandukya Upanishad, Part IV, (Aalata Shanti) with Gaudapada's Karika and Sri Sankara's commentary.

(Padamalai Verses - Tr. David Godman.)

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Ajata and other siddhantas:

Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 101:

The truth of this pre-eminent state (ajata) was taught to Arjuna by Lord Krishna in the beginning (in chapter II of Srimad Bhagavad Gita). Sri Krishna spoke of other doctrines following chapters because of Arjuna's bewilderment (that arose from) his inability to assimilate it.

Sri Bhagavan: The truth was revealed even at the start (of the Gits). For the very first verse of Sri Krishna's upadesa starts. "No birth and no death, no change, etc.,"

Question: Sri Krishna also says, "We have had many rebirths. I am aware of them. But you are not."

Sri Bhagavan: That was only because the question arose how Sri Krishna could claim to have caught the eternal truth to Aditya. The truth was stated even at the start. Arjuna did not understand it.

(Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi -
# 611.)

Conceding Creation:

102. The deeper intention of the scriptures in describing the sequence of creation in different ways is not to proclaim the correct theory of creation but to promote inquiry into the Supreme Reality, that is the primal source of creation. This is the real purport behind the Sastras (scriptures) that describe the details of creation.

Muruganar: Pozhippurai: Since the Jnana scriptures ultimately teach the doctrine of ajata to extremely
mature aspirants, they are very much in harmony when it comes to teaching the truth. The Sastras describe lengthy sequences of creation in diverse ways only to enable inquiry to arise in those who can know the truth by careful investigation.

Question: If the entire universe is of the form of mind, then does it not follow that the universe is an illusion? If that be the case, why is the creation of the universe mentioned in Vedas?

Bhagavan: There is no doubt whatsoever that the universe is the merest illusion. The principal purport of the Vedas is to make known the true Brahman, after showing the apparent universe to be false. It is for this purpose that the Vedas admit the creation of the world and not for any other reason.....

....from the fact that creation has been described in different ways it is clear that the purport of Vedas
rests only in teaching the true nature of Brahman after showing somehow or other the illusory nature of the universe. That the world is illusory, everyone can directly know in the state of realization which is in the form of experience of one's bliss-nature.

(Vichara Sangraham, Section X.)

(Guru Vachaka Kovai, tr. David Godman.)

****

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

I am personally of the view that "I
am Ravi" or "I am Subramanian" feeling is not in deep sleep state.
When one is woken up, by another by pushing him back and forth, he, the sleeping person, comes into half awake state, and so he responds to the name. For example, if my wife calls my name from kitchen and I am sleeping in a half closed bedroom, the 'call' does not reach me and so I continue to sleep. In deep sleep only mind in suspended animation and the Self are there.

The dream state could be a rehash of the waking experience but not all dream experiences are so.
For example, I never learnt driving a car, but in many dreams I have driven a car and quite fast too!

I have never seen my paternal grandfather. He died when my father was 2 years old. But this paternal grand father has come in my dreams on many occasions, (with what face, I don't know; there is not even a photo of him in our house) and I have talked to him saying, 'My father suffered a lot in life because you died quite early due to consumption!"

Again, I gave an extract of Drishti-srishti vada article in Mountain Path in this blog a couple of months earlier. Kindly go through. If I pick up that Mountain Path issue and repeat it here, it won't look nice.

Anyway all that is important is that Sri Bhagavan never labeled that one siddhanta is the best and the others are inferior. Sri Sankara Himself was an advaitin in heart, but in speech (that is his works) he was a Sakta, he was a yogi to fly skyward to see his dying mother in Kaladi and a karma yogi in building four Maths. But he is the one who wrote the best commentary on Brahma sutras and Gaudapada Karikas.

******

Subramanian. R said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ravi said...

R.Subramanaian,
I have posted on the Dream and Deep sleep with an intent to focus on our own experience.Why allow another's theory to interpret what we experience most definitely?Does it need the theory of another ,however Great he may be,to validate our experience?
The Play of Gunas is ever there,be it in Waking,Dream or Sleep State.Who is it that sleeps?Is it that 'Ravi' is not asleep?Is it that 'Ravi' is left behind?The 'Ego' is nothing but the 'I am Ravi' idea and it is very much present in Deep Sleep as well,only it is dormant;If it were not so,we cannot say,'I had a Good Sleep'.The 'Enjoyer' is very much there.It is just that the activities of the mind are at its lowest,and 'Ravi' does not involve himself in 'activities' and and this helps the mind and body to recharge with pranic energy.If the sleep is not of the Satvic kind,this Recharge does get affected.One then does not feel refreshed even with extra hours of sleep.What is more ,one may end up waking with less energy than what one had prior to it.
It is not as if the Waking,Dream and Sleep are distinct states;They are concommitant.It is only the preponderance of 'awareness' or Lack of it that enable us to label it as one or the other.In Waking state,the Awareness is at its Highest,and this is what lends itself to the belief that it is more real.
There may be some dreams where the Degree of Awareness may be Higher than what prevails during the usual Waking State.The 'Reality' of such Dreams is definitely of a Higher order than that of the Waking State.
You have mentioned about your dreaming of 'Driving a Car';This is not contradictory to the Waking Experience where you do not know 'How to Drive' but you do know that 'Car has to be Driven'.If you had sat on a Pilotless Car(Driven by GPS System),you may have simply continued to Ride as a passenger instead of Driving it in a Dream as well.The Key things that were borrowed as a Rehash from the Waking State are 'Car','Driving' ,etc.The Fact that you were speaking to a 'Grandfather' whom you had never seen is also not contradictory.You know that 'Grandfather' exists and this is borrowed from the Waking State -All Relationships are borrowed rehash of the Waking State only.Whatever is in the subconscious mind(All the Fears,Frustrations ,hopes,ambitions,etc)have a tendency to manifest in the Dream state,when the Guard of the 'Will' is released.In this fashion,the Dream State acts like the Valve of a pressure cooker that lets off steam and reduces the build-up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sadhana is best pursued in the waking state as the degree of Awareness is at its zenith here,and in turn this can continue in the Dream and Sleep State as well.If one is in a sativic State of alertness,the Sleep state also will be light and one may respond immediately in a 'selective' manner.The Sleep will continue uninterrupted if someone else is called.
How then to explain that one is unaware of even the Rumbling of Thunder but gets up as soon as one's Name is called?

It is better to divest ourselves of all borrowed thoughts and look at things anew.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

R.Subramanaian,
"Sri Sankara Himself was an advaitin in heart, but in speech (that is his works) he was a Sakta, he was a yogi to fly skyward to see his dying mother in Kaladi and a karma yogi in building four Maths."

This is to clear a misconception that a 'Yogi' is one who practices and displays Siddhis like Astral Travel,Flying in the air,etc.Quite the contrary,Yogi is one who is in communion with the supreme.The Root is 'Yuj' which means to 'join'.

The apparent difference between a Jnani,Bhakta,and Yogi is in their approach.The Jnana approach predominantly uses the Intellect to Reject and transcend the Mind,and Realize the Self.The Bhakta directs the innate Feeling and Love to dissolve the mind and merge in Bhagavan.The Yogi refines the mind and associated Prana ,making it more and more subtle until it merges in the absolute paramatman.In General,The Yogi is one who studies the mind and is completely aware of its functioning.

Although,these are the predominant characteristics,all the three approaches may be present in varying degree in most Sadhakas.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Other misconception is the belief that while Sankara is a Jnani,Sri Ramanuja and Sri MAdhwacharya are not!That a JnAni has to be an advaitin!
All the Great ones are Atma JnAnis only.The Hair splitting is just like our discussion whether the 'I' exists in sleep.We cannot conclude that the one who says that the 'I' is in deep sleep as well has never experienced Deep Sleep!
For instance,Papa Ramdas said that he is a 'VisishtAdvaitin'.All Great ones Realized the same Truth only but the interpretation varies.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER (to Jaygopal): "One should not harbour malice toward any person or any
opinion. The believers in the formless God and the worshippers of God with form are all,
without exception, going toward God alone. The jnani, the yogi, the bhakta-all, without
exception, are seeking Him alone. The follower of the path of knowledge calls Him
'Brahman'. The yogi calls Him 'Atman' or 'Paramatman'. The bhakta calls Him 'Bhagavan'
.
Further, it is said that there is the Eternal Lord and His Eternal Servant."
JAYGOPAL: "How can we know that all paths are true?"
MASTER: "A man can reach God if he follows one path rjghtly. Then he can learn about
all the other paths. It is like reaching the roof by some means or other. Then one is able
to climb down by the wooden or stone stairs, by a bamboo pole, or even by a rope.
"A devotee can know everything when God's grace descends on him. If you but realize
Him, you will be able to know all about Him. You should somehow meet the master of a
house and become acquainted with him; then he himself will tell you how many houses he
owns and all about his gardens and government seurities."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above saying of the Master has to be clearly understood by any seeker.I have time and again encountered people who think that they are votaries of 'JnAna' and followers of the Rational path,and carry themselves with an air of Superiority.The only little thing that substantiates their claim is that they have read some work like VivekachudAmani or some other Advaita VedAnta work-or attended a few lectures of some Swamiji or speaker on any of the Advaitic Texts.
Many a time,I have found unlettered simple people like Rickshaw pullers(now no longer in existence!),or some casual lowly labourers who visit temples and call on God with a Yearning that the 'Intelligentia'(JnAna pursuers)may perhaps take lifetimes to discover!

Namaskar.

Murali said...

Ravi wrote:

"...I have time and again encountered people who think that they are votaries of 'JnAna' and followers of the Rational path,and carry themselves with an air of Superiority."

Very true. Especially this gets compounded if we do not understand clearly what Bhagavan meant when he said that "Ishwara is True as true as our own identity as the ego" and "Ishwara is the last of the unreal forms to Go". Its very easy to conclude by these that Iswara is also unreal and at once fall into the ditch. I think this is what happened to mythological figures like Ravana and Hiranyakashyapu when they heard the advaithic truths and rejected Ishwara.

The danger is very real.

Regards Murali

Subramanian. R said...

Siva Temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:

Tiruk kadavUr - 609 311:

This small town is now called
Tiru kadaiyur. It can be reached by a bus from MayilAdutuRai, now called Mayavaram, in Thanjavur District. This is one of the eight places of the heroic sports of Siva, Ashta Virasthanam. Here for protecting the young Markandeya, who was holding tight Siva Lingam, Siva came out of the Lingam and kicked Yama who came to take the young boy's life. Siva is called Amritakateswarar and Kala Samhara Murti. Uma is called Abhirami. The tirtham (temple tank) is called
Amrita Tirtham. The temple tree (sthala vruksham) is Bhilva tree.

The temple is sung by Jnana Sambandhar in 11 verses and Tiru
Navukkarasar by 31 verses and Sundarmurti by 10 verses in Tevaram. The temple is famous for the story of Abhirami Bhattar, who composed the famous Abhirami Andati and Abhirami Ammai Padigam (2 decads).

The town is the place where Kungilia Kalaya Nayanar and Kari
Nayanar (among 63 Saints) lived and attained liberation.

There is also a Siva shrine in the cremation ground called Tirukadavur Mayanam, where there is no houses but only a Siva temple. This place is also sung by Jnana Sambandhar (11 verses), Tiru Navukkarasar (8 verses) and Sundaramurti (10 verses). Siva is called Brahmapuriswarar and Uma is called Malarkuzhal Minnammai. The tirtham (holy tank) is Kasi Tirtham.

Both the temples are nowadays sought after by elderly couples for celebrating their (husband's) 60th birthdays and also to resolve disputes among young couples to avoid divorces.

To the south west of Tirukadavur in about 7 kms is Tiruvidai Kazhi, a popular Murugan Temple about which Arunagiri Natha has sung in his Tirupugazh.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 28:

Ezhumbum ahanthai ezhum idathai
neeril
Vizhuntha poruL kANa veNdi -
muzhuguthal pol
Koorntha madihyAl pechu moochu adakki
koNdu uLLe
Aazhnthu aRiya veNdum aRi.

In the same way one would dive deep into water, retaining breath and speech, to recover an article fallen into water, one, with a firm resolve to find the source whence the ego as 'I' (the first of all thoughts to rise) rises, restraining thoughts and breath, diving deep with a sharp and single pointed mind into the Heart, should know the subtle form of Awareness, the Self.

Sri Bhagavan uses the word 'koorntha madhi' which means focused attention, firm resolve. The breath is not restrained wantonly, but when one's attention is focused, the breath becomes restrained on its own, says Sri Sadhu Om.

The upadesa here is to find out whence the ego rises. It does not merely mean that that one should search within the body, which is of course, is what the seekers do in the initial stages. The Awareness is called Hrudyam by Sri Bhagavan in Verse 2 of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam. Here Sri Bhagavan says only the place wherefrom the ego rises.

uLLe Azhnthu is only the process of self attention. The pearl diver's analogy is given only to highlight the focused attention, that is needed for a pearl diver while jumping into the water, to get the pearl.

Sri Bhagavan says that that ego is the only obstacle to realize the Self. One should only search for the place whence this ego rises. Yoga Vasishta says 'vastu ahankara vithyathe'.

This verse is also describing the
vastu lakshanam. The technique of Atma Vichara -- that of finding of the source of 'I' is further explained in this verse, in continuation of verse 27. If one wants to know the source of 'I' - the form of sense of doership - one should dive deep and know oneself with a pointed attention, undistracted and subtle reasoning with peace of mind, restraint of speech and breath with the place of origin of the ego as target.

Speech is but thought. Breath is just the movement of vital air. The verse stresses the need for control of thoughts, the oscillation and movement of mind and prana, the cause of movements of instruments of action and perception and the inner organs, subside and become motionless, the heart becomes a deep waveless ocean. Upadesa Undiyar says in Verse 12:

Mind and breath (as thought and action)
Fork out like two branches.
But, both spring
From a single root.


continued..

(Source: T.R. Kanakammal; Sri Sadhu Om.)

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 28:

continues....

The quest for the source of ego demands a very sharp and subtle intellect and dispassion of a high order. For the sharpness of the weapon determines the extent of annihilation effected. One should find the source with a vigilant and discerning eye and plunge in. This calls for great courage and determination, which provide the litmus test of the desire for liberation. Thus, when all energies, vital and mental, are gathered and directed towards the Heart, as the final step, the renunciation of the most unreal, namely, the ego self, is called for. Sri Bhagavan uses the word ovudhal in Verse 26, to describe what is the real renunciation.

The realized sages say that but for the grace of the guru, the loss of oneself (ego self) or the gain of awareness of existence cannot be ensured. With mere knowledge of the ego self, diving deep within, one cannot objectify and know the rise of ego. The searching mind itself is drowned, and apart from 'That which is' - the existing Awareness, there is no other awareness to announce It. To abide as Awareness is to know it, and to know it is to announce it and reveal it.

Even though the technique of inquiry advocated here appears initially to be a preliminary sadhana, this in itself is the final one too. Heart is spoken of as the seat of Atman and the place of the origin of the ego. Atman, the ultimate Truth, has no distinctions like inside and outside, up or down, far and near. Hence the mention of Heart as the place of the source of the ego is mainly to gather in the mind that is perpetually externalized and to make it inward turned. In fact, "Heart itself is Atman". The technique mentioned here is the way to make an alert mind inhere in Atman.

If the mind is resolute enough to know the nature of Atman, breath will subside ON ITS OWN, and a separate pranayama will not be necessary, is the instruction of Sri Bhagavan. When we undertake a difficult task, accomplishing which is beyond our capacity, we find we do accomplish it mainly because of our resolve; so much so that we say after completing it, "somehow gritting my teeth and holding my breath I have accomplished it." It is the strength and resolution and tenacity of purpose that makes one hold on one's breath and accomplish a difficult and huge task.

"A seeker strengthening himself with stern vairagya must dive into the heart with a single pointedness and concentration and gain the treasure, the Self," is the exhortation of Sri Bhagavan.


concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 34:

Yogi Ramiah's says: Sitting in Maharshi's presence brings peace of mind. I used to sit in samadhi for three or four hours together. Then I felt my mind took a form and came out from within. By constant practice and meditation it entered the Heart and was merged into It. I conclude that the Heart is the resting place of mind. The result is peace. When the mind is absorbed in the Heart, the Self is realized. This could be felt even at the stage of concentration (dharana).

I asked Maharshi about contemplation: He taught me as follows:

When a man dies the funeral pyre is prepared and the body is laid flat on the pyre. The pyre is lit. The skin is burnt, then the flesh and then the bones until the whole body
falls to ashes. What remains thereafter? The mind. The question arises, 'How many are thee in this body? -- one or two?' If two, why do people say 'I' and not 'we'. There is therefore only one. Whence it is born? What is its nature? Enquiring thus, the mind also disappears. Then what remains over is seen to be 'I'. the next question is Who am I?. The Self alone. This is contemplation. It is how I did it. By this process, attachment to the body - deha vasana - is destroyed. The ego vanishes. Self alone shines. One method of getting mind dissolution (manolaya) is association with great ones - the Yoga adepts - Yoga arudhas. They are perfect adepts in Samadhi. Self Realization has been easy, natural, and perpetual to them. Those moving with them closely and in sympathetic contact gradually absorb the samadhi habit from them.

Talks No. 57:

.....
.....
.....

Sri Bhagavan:

Some people think that there are different stages in Jnana. The Self is nitya aparoksha i.e ever realized, knowingly or unknowingly. Sravana, they argue, should therefore be aparoksha jnana (directly experienced) and not paroksha jnana (indirectly experienced). But Jnana should result in duhkha nivriti (loss of misery) whereas sravana alone does not bring about it. Therefore they say, through aparoksha, it is not unshaken. The rising of the vasanas is the cause of its being weak (not unchanging). When the vasanas are removed, Jnana becomes unshaken and bears fruit.

Others say sravana is only paroksha jnana. By manana (reflection) it becomes aparoksha spasmodically. The obstruction of its continuity is the vasanas. They rise up with reinforced vigor after manana. They must be held in check. Such vigilance consists in remembering = 'I am not the body' and adhering to the aparoksha anubhava (direct experience) which has been had in course of manana (reflection). Such practice is called nididhyasana and eradicates the vasanas. Then dawns the sahaja state. That is jnana, sure.

The aparoksha in manana cannot effect duhkha nivritti and cannot amount to moksha because the vasanas periodically overpower jnana. Hence it is adridha (weak) and becomes firm after the vasanas have been eradicated by nididhyasana.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas (latent
tendencies):

Talks No. 108:

Sri Bhagavan in continuation of His telling the story of Uddalaka Aruni, from Chandogya Upanishad, further explained that all proceeds from Sat.

The body takes food. Food requires water. Water requires heat to digest the food. Tajo mulamanvichcha. It is Sat parasyam devatayam (merged in the Be-ing). If we are sat sampannah (merged in the Be-ing), how is that we do not realize it?

Just as the honey gathered from different flowers forms the bulk in a honeycomb, and each drop does not indicate wherefrom it has been collected, so also sat sampannah in deep sleep, death, etc., People do not recognize their individualities. They slip into that state unawares. But when they wake up they regain their original individual characteristics.

Devotee: Honey, though collected from different flowers, becomes the bulk and does not possess individual characteristics. But the individual parts do not also exist in the drops and they do not return to their sources. Whereas the individuals after going to deep sleep wake up individuals as formerly. How is it?

Maharshi: Just as the rivers discharged into the ocean lose their individualities, still the waters evaporate and return as rain on the hills and through the rivers to the ocean, so also the individuals going to sleep lose their individualities and yet return as individuals according to their previous vasanas unawares. Thus, even in death, Sat is not lost.

Devotee: How can that be?

Maharshi: See how a tree, whose branches are cut, grows again. So long as the life source is not affected it will grow. Simiarly the samskaras (anamneses) sink into the heart in death. They do not perish. They will in right time sprout forth from the heart. That is how the jivas are reborn.

Devotee: How does the wide universe sprout forth from such subtle samskaras remaining sunk in the heart?

Maharshi: Just as a big banyan tree sprouts from a tiny seed, so the wide universe with names and forms sprouts forth from the heart.

Devotee: If the origin is Sat, while is it not felt?

Maharshi: The salt in the lump is visible; it is invisible in solution. Still its existence is known by its taste. Similarly Sat, though not recognized by the intellect, can still be realized, in a different way. i.e. transcendentally.

Devotee: How?

Maharshi: Just as a man blindfolded and left by robbers in a jungle, enquires his way home and returns there, so also the ignorant one (blinded by ignorance) inquires of those not so blinded and seeks his own source and returns to it.

Then, Guru Upadesa - 'Vang manasi sampadyate, manah prane, pranstejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam iti.'

Devotee: If so, a Jnani or an ajnani dies in the same manner. Why is an ajnani reborn, where a jnani is not?

Maharshi: Just as an innocent man stayabhisandha is not affected by the test of touching the red hot iron but a thief is affected, so also the sadbrahama satyabhisandha i.e a jnani enters into the Sat consciously and merges, whereas the other enters unaware and is thrown out and unawares also.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 172:

.......
.......

Devotee: Will the knowledge gained
by direct experience be lost afterwards?

Maharshi: Kaivalya Navaneetam says it may be lost. Experience gained without rooting out all the Vasanas cannot remain steady. Efforts must be made to eradicate the Vasanas. Otherwise, rebirth after death takes place. Some say direct experience results from hearing from one's Guru. Others say it is from reflection. Yet others say that is from one pointedness and also from Samadhi. Though they look different on the surface, ultimately they mean the same. Knowledge can remain unshaken only after all the Vasanas are rooted out.

Talks No. 173:

Devotee: Lord, how can the grip of the ego be slackened?

Maharshi: By not adding new Vasanas to it.

Devotee: Any amount of Japa has not slackened the grip!

Maharshi: How so! It will duly slacken and vanish.

*****

Anonymous said...

Ravi,

Thank you for letting us know about Sri Ganesan's reminiscenes.

I don't know if it is a co-incidence; just a few days back, I was reading again, Sri Balaram Reddiar's reminiscenes. At that time, I was wondering why Sri Ganesan, who has spent almost his entire life in Sri Ramana Ashram had not yet recorded his reminscenes about Sri Ramana and the old devotees and lo and behold, today I came across your post !

I love reading about the devotees of Sri Ramana and other saints.

If you come across any other material on Sri Ramana/Sri Ramakrishna/other saints, please do share.

Thank you,
shiv

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva
Canons: (lesser known temples)

Tiruvidai maruthur - 612 104.

This town is in Thanjavur district, in the bus route of Kumbakonam to Mayiladuthurai (Mayavaram).

The temple is called Madhyarjunam, (idai maruthur). In North, Srisailam is called Mallikarjunam. In deep south, is Sputajunam (between Tirunelveli and Ambasamudram).

Siva is called Mahalingam. Uma is called BruhatkuchambAL or Perunan
mulai nayaki in Tamizh. The tirtham (holy waters) is river Kaveri. The temple tree (sthala vruksham) is Maruthu tree.

In this temple, the Pushya star day of Pushya month (Makara - Jan/Feb) is quote famous and is celebrated. On this day, devotees take bath in Kaveri and then have darshan of Siva in this temple.

Tirunavukkarasar sings about this Pushya festival, in 2.56.5, "Varunthiya mAdhavathor vanor enor vandheendip porunthiya thaipoosam
Adi ulaham polivu eitha...

The great tapsvins, who are put with their great penance, and the gods of heaven come and take bath on Thaipoosam day and pray to you!

Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has sung 66 verses, Navukkarasar 47 verses and Sundaramurthi SwamigaL has sung in 10 verses about this temple. Manikkavachagar mentions this temple in five places in his Tiruvachakam. In Tiruvachakam, the saint says "idaimaurthu
adhanil eeNda irunthu, padimap pAdam vaitha ap parisum...." He also placed His holy feet (on my head) in Idaimaruthur, One can infer that Siva's pada diksha was also attained by the saint in this place apart from Tiruperundurai.


In this temple, Varaguna Pandyan, the king who had brahma hathi (killing a brahmin) sin, was blessed by Siva for removal of the sin.

On the four entrances of four towers, Pattinathar, another Saiva saint and siddha had entered the temple, through eastern tower. Bhadhragiri, another saint had entered the temple through western tower.

The temple is famous for prayers and meditation for curing one's psychotic and other mental problems. Many faithful devotees take the afflicted relatives to this temple for cure.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 230:

A visitor: Can one realize the Truth by learning the scriptures and study of books?

Maharshi: No. So long as predispositions (vasanas) remain latent in the mind, realization cannot be achieved. Sastra learning is itself a vasana. Realization is only in samadhi.

Talks No. 289:

.......

Devotee: Having heard this truth, why does not one remain content?

Maharshi: Because samskaras have not been destroyed. Unless samskaras cease to exist, there will always be doubt and confusion. (sandeha, viparita). All efforts are directed to destroying doubt and confusion. To do so their roots must be cut. Their roots are samskaras. These are rendered ineffective, by practice as prescribed by the Guru. The Guru leaves it to the seeker to do this much so that he might himself find out that there is no ignorance. This truth mentioned is in the stage of the hearing of the truth (sravana). That is not drdha (firm). For making it unshaken, one has to practice reflection (manana) and one pointedness (nididhyasana).
These two processes scorch the seeds of vasanas so that they are rendered ineffective.

Some extraordinary persons get drdha jnana (unshaken knowledge) even on hearing the Truth only once (sakrchhravana matrena). Because they are krthopasakha (advanced seekers), whereas the akrthopasakah (raw seekers) take longer to gain drdha jnana.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No: 320:

In the course of an informal conversation, Sri Bhagavan pointed out that Self Realizatikon is possible only for the fit. The vasanas must be eliminated before Jnana dawns. One must be like Janaka for Jnana to dawn. One must be ready to sacrifice everything for the Truth. Complete renunciation is the index of fitness.

Talks No. 326:

.....

Sri Bhagavan said:

Here is another illustration. Suppose a cow plays rogue and strays into neighbor's fields to graze. She is not easily weaned from her stealthy habit. Think how she can be kept in the stall. If forcibly tethered in the stall, she simply bides her time to play the rogue. If she is tempted with fine grass in the stall she takes one mouthful on the first day and again waits for the opportunity to run away. the next day she takes two mouthfuls; so she takes more and more on each succeeding day, until finally she is weaned her wicked tendencies. When entirely free from bad habits, she might safely be let free and she would not stray into neighbor's pasture land. Even when beaten in the stall, she does not afterwards leave the place. Similarly with the mind. It is accustomed to stray outwards by the force of the latent vasanas manifesting as thoughts. So long as there are vasanas contained within they must come out and exhaust themselves. The thoughts comprise the mind. Searching what the mind is, the thoughts will recoil and the seeker will know that they arise from the Self. If it the aggregates of these that we call 'mind'. If one realizes that the thoughts arise from the Self and abide in their source, the mind will disappear. After the mind ceases to exist and bliss of peace has been realized, one will find it then as difficult to bring out a thought, as he now finds it difficult to keep out all thoughts. Here the mind is the cow playing the rogue. The thoughts are the neighbor's pasture. One's own primal being free from thoughts is the stall.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 383:

......
......

Devotee: Is there no dehatma buddhi (I am the body idea) for the Jnani?
If, for instance, Sri Bhagavan was bitten by an insect, is there no sensation?

Maharshi: There is the sensation and there is also the dehatma buddhi. The latter is common to both jnani and ajnani with this difference, that the ajnani thinks dehaitva Atma (only the body is myself), whereas the Jnani knows all is of the Self (Atma mayam sarvam) or all is the Self, (sarvam khalavidam Brahman). If there be pain let it be. It is also the part of the Self. The Self is poorna, perfect.

Now with regard to the actions of the Jnani, they are only so called because they are ineffective. Generally the actions get embedded as samskaras in the individual. That can be only so long as the mind is fertile, as in the case of the ajnani. With a jnani, the mind is surmised. He has already transcended the mind. Because of his apparent activity the mind has to be inferred in his case, and that mind iks not fertile like that of an ajnani. Hence it is said that a jnani's mind is Brahman. Brahman is certainly no other than the jnani's mind. The vasanas cannot bear fruit in that soil. His mind is barren, free from vasanas, etc.,

However, since prarabdha was conceded in his case, vasanas also must be supposed to exist. If they exist, they are only for enjoyment, bhogahetu. That is to say, actions bear two fold fruits, the one for enjoyment of their fruits and the other leaving an impress on the mind in the form of samskaras for subsequent manifestation in future births. The jnani's mind being barren cannot entertain seeds of karma, births. The jnani's mind being barren cannot entertain seeds of karma. His vasanas simply exhaust themselves by activities ending in enjoyment only (bhogahetu karma). In fact, his karma is seen only from the ajnani's standpoint. He remains actionless only. He is not aware of the body as being apart from the Self. How can there be liberation (mukti) or bondage (bandha) for him? He is beyond both. He is not bound by karma, either now or ever. There is no jivanmukta or videhamukta according to him.

Devotee: From all this it looks as if a Jnani who has scorched all the vasanas is the best and that he would remain inactive like a stock or stone?

Maharshi: No. Not necessarily. Vasanas do not affect him. Is it not itself a vasana that one remains like a stock or stone? Sahaja is the state.

*******

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 29:

NAn enRu vAyAl navilAthu uL Azh
manathAl
NAn enRu engu undhum ena nAduthale
- Jnana neRi
YAm anRi anRu idhu nAnAm adhu enRu
unnal thuNai
YAm adhu vichAram AmA.

Not saying aloud 'I', 'I', but with the mind diving deep within, to inquire, seek and know, whence this
'I' arises is the Sadhana in the path of Jnana (supreme wisdom). Instead meditate with an imagined attitude of 'I am not this body; I am That(Brahman)' is a helpful aid, but can it suffice by itself as a direct sadhana of Atma Vichara?

What is the path of Jnana? What is the sadhana to be followed in that path? And how should it be practiced? Sri Bhagavan explains in this verse all these with clarity to a fine precision. With the instrument of the purified mind, free from distraction and withdrawn from the unreal externalities, and therefore highly attentive, one must know by keenly observing whence arises the feeling of the awareness of 'I'. Instead, chanting aloud 'I', 'I' as a mantra will not take one nearer the Truth. One should not indulge in the chanting of it as an occupation. Meditation is a function of the mind. The mind thrives by the very act of thinking. Fed on thoughts, the mind is kept alive and active, thus gaining in strength and flourishing
and hence this will not ensure the death of mind. The goal of vichara is the annihilation of the mind. To know oneself and remain as Awareness by plunging within, with the mind and speech silenced, is the way of Jnana.

No doubt, Sri Bhagavan has said that mantra japa is an aid to self realization, since the mantra japa keeps of various thoughts and enable one to have one thought. He Himself told Muruganar, Annamalai Swami and an unknown Harijan to chant Siva Siva. This is primarily to ward of a jungle of thoughts flourishing in the mind. But to chant, I, I or Who am I? is not a mantra according to Him.

The Vedantic texts speak of sravana, manana and nididhyasana as the process of sadhana for gaining Jnana. Hearing the content of the mahavakya, Tat tvam asi, explained and instructed by a guru is sravana. As per the upadesa thus received, ascertaining 'I am Brahman' by inferential reasoning is manana. Unceasingly contemplating on the Truth thus ascertained is nididhyasana. By the strength of such nididhyasana, akhandakara vritti (unbroken experience) results, annihilating the nescience. Jnana dawns and the direct experience of being the Atman is gained. This is the opinion of Jnana Sastras and is the traditional method of teaching the disciple by a guru.

Yet, this is a mental practice involving the triputi. But Vichara Marga aims at the mind seeking and merging, at the source, thus gaining quiescence. This path of Jnana explained in this verse is direct and sharp, like a catching a thief red handed. This is a very potent way of knowing through inquiry the place and origin of the ego.

Meditating upon the truth Tat Tvam asi, by repeatedly thinking, 'I am not this body, I am Brahman" may, in the beginning, be an indirect aid to the practice of Self enquiry, because it will encourage one to try to know one's own true nature. But merely repeatedly thinking thus cannot be the actual practice of self enquiry. Having understood and become convinced of the truth that we are not the body but Brahman, we must take to the practice of Self enquiry - that is, we must scrutinize and know the truth of the feeling of 'I' - for then only can we attain the state in which we experience ourself to be Brahman. These points can also be seen in further verses, 32 and 36 of this work.

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu: Verse 29:

Continues....

Sri Bhagavan has described mukti and dyana and atma vichara in Who am I?:

We can attain mukti only by investigating or scrutinizing ourself. He also defines dhyana as imagining ourself to be Sat Chit Ananda. Actually 'imagining' is not the correct word, whereas this is used to indicate bhavana. Atma Vichra is only to be always being having fixed the mind in Atma. Since the self investigation or atma vichara is the practice of remaining with our mind fixed in our real Self, which is infinite and absolute being, it is a practice of just being without any mental activity. In contrast the term meditation or dhyana is commonly understood to denote the practice of imagining ourself to be god or Brahman, whose nature is Sat Chit Anandam. The radical distinctio between the practice of true self attention and meditation is also emphasized in Ulladu Narpadu Verse 29.

True vichara is only the practice of our sinking the entire mind within through attention focused on the our source or true being, our fundamental consciousness, I am. Meditation and even mantra japa is by itself only an aid to self attention. Instead of turning and sinking the mind inwardly, if we merely think, I am not this, I am that, we have clearly misunderstood the purpose of Sri Bhagavan's teaching on Atma Vichara.

In Verse 32, He clearly says that when Vedas proclaim "That (absolute reality) is you' to think that I am God or Brahman is only due to lack of mental strength, because That abides always as ourself.

When we are told 'That is you', we should only investigate, 'Who am I?' If we truly convinced that we are That, we will not feel any need to to meditate " I am That' but will instead feel only strong urge to scrutinize ourself in order to discover the true 'I'.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

Tiru veNkAdu - 609 114.

This temple is near MayilAduthuRai (Mayavaram) in about 10 kms. One can take a bus either from MayilAduthuRai or SirkAzhi.

The Siva temple is also called Adi Chidambaram, Swetaranyam. Sweta in Sanskrit means white. Siva is called Swetaranyeswarar and Uma is called Brahma Vidya Nayaki. There are three holy tanks (tirtham) called Surya, Chandra and Agni tirthams.

Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has sung 33 verses on this temple; Tiru Navukkarasar has sung 21 verses and Sundaramurti, 10 verses. Manikkavachagar mentions in one place in Keerthi Tiru Ahaval - 'virunthinan Aahi veNkadu adhanil..' in Tiruvachakam.

Meikanda Devar, the author of Siva Jnana Bodha Sutram was born to the great saivite Achuta KaLappALar after he took bath in the three tirthams, as per the advice of his guru, AruL Nandi Sivacharyar.

The temple and the three holy tanks are quite ancient the fact of which
is revealed by a mention of these in Silapadikaram, one of the five great ancient epics of Tamizh. Kannagi was advised by her friend Devandi to take bath in these tirthams. (Dr. U.V. Swaminatha Iyer's view.)

Apart from Siva Lingam of the main temple, the sculptures of Agohra Veerabhadra Murti and Kali are quite famous. On every Sunday night, special pujas are done for these two shrines. The metal icon of Nataraja is also there and this is exactly of the same type as in Tillai (Chidambaram).

This is also the birth place of Pattinathar, who is called TirueNkAdu Siddhar.

The temple is also famous for propitiating Mercury among the nine planets. Those faithful devotees, who have Mercury in a bad position in their birth chart, come to this temple and pray to Siva and also the nine planets.

The holy trees for the temple are three. They are bhilva, konRai and peepul trees. Hence the temple is called the temple of 'holy threes.'

1. Three holy waters.
2. Three holy trees.
3. Three famous idols (Kali, Aghora Veerabhadara and Nataraja, apart from Siva and Uma.).

******

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks 392:

Swami Lokesananda continued his discussions with Sri Bhagavan on kundalini and other matters.

Sri Bhagavan said: The yogis call it Kundalini Sakti. It is the same as vritti of the form of God (Bhagavatakara Vritti) of the bhaktas and vritti of Brahman (Brahmakara vritti) of the Jnanis. It must be preliminary to Realization. The sensation produced may be said to be hot.

When further asked by Swami Lokesananda about the six centers and antahkaranas, Sri Bhagavan said that the inner organs (antahkaranas) are classified as five, Knowledge, Mind, the Ego, Buddhi (intellect) and Chitta (memory or mind stuff). Some others say these are only four, leaving Knowledge. Still others say that antahkarana is only one... All these are only ideas to explain the subtle body, sukshma sarira.... Thus the subtle body which is synonymous with the mind, is both sentient and insentient, i.e. abhasa and sattva. Again by the play of sattva guna, their brightness manifests as the mind and the jnanendriyas.

Later Sri Bhagavan continued: The intricate maze of philosophy of different schools is said to clarify matter and reveal the Truth. But in fact, they create confusion where no confusion need exist. To understand anything there must be the Self. The Self is obvious. Why not remain as the Self? What need to explain the non self?

Take the Vedanta for instance. They say that there are 15 kinds of prana. The student is made to commit the names to memory and also their functions. the air that goes up is called Prana; goes down and it is called Apana; operates the indriyas and it is called something. Why all this? Why do you classify, give names and enumerate the functions, and so on? Is it not enough to know that one prana does the whole work?

........
........

I was indeed fortunate that I never took to it. Had I taken to it, I would probably be nowhere -- always in confusion. My purva vasanas (former tendencies) directly took me to the enquiry 'Who am I?' I was indeed fortunate!

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 431:

A Telugu gentleman stood up and asked: The mind is said to be pure when all its Vasanas are wiped out. It is also the finality. When there is something to be gained, is it not duality?

Maharshi: Let the mind first be made pure. If the same question arises thereafter the answer may then be sought.

***

Talks No. 439:

Devotee: Rama asks: 'Brahman being pure, how can Maya arise from Him and veil Him also?' Vasishta replies: In pure mind associated with strong dispassion this question will not arise. Of course, in advaita philosophy, there can be no place for jiva, Iswara and maya. Oneself sinking into the Self, the vasanas will entirely disappear, leaving no room for such question.

Maharshi: The answers will be according to the capacity of the seeker. It is said in Chapter II of Gita that no one is born or dies. But in Chapter IV, Sri Krishna says numerous incarnations of His and Arjuna had taken place. All known to Him but not to Arjuna. Which of these statements is true? Both statements are true, but from different standpoints.

Devotee: Vasanakshaya, mano nasa and Atma sakshatkara seem to be interdependent.

Maharshi: The different expressions have only one meaning. They differ according to the individual's stage of progress. Dispassion, Realization -- all mean the same.

......

******

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 29:

continues...

Aham Brahmasmi or I am Brahman, has two words - 'I' and 'That' and the meditation becomes two headed or two pronged. A single pointed meditation, on the other hand, is by far better and more helpful. Some say one must know that 'Tat' (That) because the idea of the world constantly arises to deflect the mind. If the reality behind it is first ascertained, it will be found to be Brhaman. The 'tvam' (thou) is understood later. It is the Jiva. Finally, there will be Jiva Brahmaaikya (union of the two; the union of Jiva and Para.)

Sri Arunagiri Natha says in his Seerpada Vahuppu: urai avizha, unarvu avizha, uLam avizha, uyir avizha, uLapadiyai uNarum avar anubhuti Anathuvum... Without speech, without feeling, without mind, without prana, That which IS experienced as It IS.

Sri Bhagavan says in Talks No. 647:

"But why all this? Can the world exist apart from the Self? The 'I' is always Brahman. Its identity need not be established by logic and practice. It is enough if one realizes the Self. It is always the Brahman. According to the other school, 'nididhyasana will be thought Aham Brahmasmi'. That is diversion of thought to Brahman. No diversion should be allowed. Know the Self and there is an end of it. No long process is necessary to know the Self. Is it to be pointed out by another? Does not everyone know that he exists? Even in utter darkness, when he cannot see his own hand, he answers a call and says 'I am here'....Therefore the enquiry Who am I? is the sravana. The ascertainment of the true import of 'I' is the manana. The practical application on each occasion is nididhyasana. Being as 'I' is Samadhi.

That meditating on I am Brahman will not lead to the goal directly was often explained by Sri Bhagavan with the illustration of the Upanishadic story of Cartman Raikwa, a realized soul. He was known as Cartman Raikwa for he dressed exactly like a cartman, with a knee length dhoti, a turban and stick in hand. He was always found attired thus under an abandoned cart. One day, on his way to the river, he noticed a sadhak repeating endlessly, 'I am Brahman', 'I am Brahman'. When for days together he saw the sadhak repeating it, Raikwa one day stood before him and started repeating in a loud voice, 'Cartman Raikwa is here'. Disturbed and unable to carry on his practice of Japa, the sadhak opened his eyes and shouted at Raikwa,'Your very attire proclaims you as a cartman and everybody knows that. Where then is the need for you to shout something that is obvious to everybody's knowledge?' Raikwa shot back, 'You say you are Brahman. So you know it. Do you have to repeat it endlessly then?' The message went home and the sadhak became silent thereafter.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 29:

continues....

The true meaning of the Upadesa the enquiry 'Who am I?' of the Sadguru is the quest of the Self. It is to seek with a searching mind, and merge in the true place of one's existence. It is not chanting 'I' as mantra or meditating 'I am That'. Instead, by the light of knowledge gained from books, to think, 'I am not this', 'I am that' cannot become the enquiry of the Self. To attain the Self from which one has slipped away, that thought process may be helpful but cannot replace the true enquiry of the Self.

In the Mahavakya of 'Thou art That', no meditation has been enjoined. What is said by implication is that in the egoless state, one has the experience of the impersonal Absolute as identical with one's own Self. i.e the real Self disentangled from sheaths foisted on It is the Supreme Reality. What sadhana is there for attaining it except Self enquiry? The quest of the Self is the direct path, and the meditation on Mahavakya is a preliminary aid for breaking up the idea of the body as the Self.

As Muruganar says:

In the steady peace of still mind
With breath within the heart held
firm,
And all five senses merged in one,
In such keen insight realize
Pure flawless being as Awareness.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Ramana Stuti Panchakam:

This is the group of five songs composed by Satyamangalam Venkatara Ramana Iyer, while Sri Bhagavan, with a few devotees was staying in Virupaksha Cave. Iyer stayed for 4 days and he composed four songs and the fifth one was sent by him through post. Iyer never came again till Sri Bhagavan had left His mortal coil.

These songs were composed EVEN BEFORE Sri Bhagavan composed Sri
Arunachala Stuti Panchakam. A reference was made by Sri Bhagavan
many years later, when someone in the Hall sang his songs, (Day by Day).

These songs are chanted on the evenings of Saturday in Samadhi Hall parayana.

The songs contain many delightful expressions of Iyer about Sri Bhagavan.

He says in Kalai Pattu:

MukguNa rahithare mukti nAdAlvore
Sadguru Ramanare vArum...

Sri Bhagavan is beyond the three gunas in the transcending state of suddha sattva guna.

Again in Kummi Pattu, Iyer says:

ANava kAmya mayai aRuthenRinthu
Anma sukathil kaLithiduvAn....

He has snapped ego, karma and maya and is ever abiding in the Bliss of Atma.

Kangul pahal ninRa idamathaik
KaNdu kaLithanan thAnAhi....

He abides in time less space, where there are no days and nights.

Iyer says also what Sri Bhagavan conveyed to him:

He says:

VeNinil vAyai vaLarpathal enna
venkata ramana vEdiyane
KANinik katchi enRu odhi aRainthAne
KaN vizhiyAl enthan kannathile.

With His glance, He is saying: What is the use of speaking all these? See the Atma darsan - He said through His gaze and thus slapped him on his cheeks with that gaze!

In PonnoLir Pathu, Iyer says:

ThaNiyenathu ahappei inRu chadukkena enaivittu Oda
ThuNiyathai Jnana vALal sundara
ramana poRRi....

Please snap my ego through Your sword of Jnana, O Sundara Ramana!

The devotee thus begs Sri Bhagavan to snap his ego with the sword of Jnana, since he is himself incapable of conquering his own ego.

Again in Ponnaiyotha Pathu, Iyer says:

sangai inRi jagathoLir jnaniyAn

He has know more doubts and suspicion about this state of Fullness and He shines in the world as such.

In Ramana Sadguru, Iyer says:

VAdhu seithidum mayai thannai
vaLaithu ninRu midhithavan
Choodhu sei pulanOdu vanjakach
Choozh vinai thohai aRRAvan....

He has bent and stepped on the Maya that was trying to sport and argue with Him. He has jettisoned the effects of dangerous five senses operating, and the the heap of karma effects.

Again Iyer says:

Pancha bhuta niRainthu ninRavan
Pancha kosam athu aRRavan
Anjalithidum anbar thunbam
Oahikkum jnana vidhAyakan.

He ever pervades the five elements. But He has no five sheaths. He is the embodiment of Jnana, who shall clear the miseries of the devotees.

In the same song, Iyer says:

ARputha chuvai Ana baginan
Asi padthu uruvAnavan....

He is sweet essence of wondrous
taste. He is the word 'Asi' the bridge between Tat and Tvam, i.e
Brahman and Jikva.

*****

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Purity of heart
VIJAY: "How can one see God?"
MASTER: "One cannot see God without purity of heart. Through attachment to 'woman
and gold' the mind has become stained-covered with dirt, as it were. A magnet cannot
attract a needle if the needle is covered with mud. Wash away the mud and the magnet will
draw it. Likewise, the dirt of the mind can be washed away with the tears of our eyes. This
stain is removed if one sheds tears of repentance and says, 'O God, I shall never again do
such a thing.' Thereupon God, who is like the magnet, draws to Himself the mind, which is
like the needle. Then the devotee goes into samadhi and obtains the vision of God.
God's grace is the ultimate help
"You may try thousands of times, but nothing can be achieved without God's grace. One
cannot see God without His grace. Is it an easy thing to receive the grace of God? One must
altogether renounce egotism; one cannot see God as long as one feels, 'I am the doer.'
Suppose, in a family, a man has taken charge of the store-room; then if someone asks the
master, 'Sir, will you yourself kindly give me something from the store-room?', the master
says to him: 'There is already someone in the store-room. What can I do there?'
"God doesn't easily appear in the heart of a man who feels himself to be his own master
.
But God can be seen the moment His grace descends. He is the Sun of Knowledge. One
single ray of His has illumined the world with the light of knowledge. That is how we are
able to see one another and acquire varied knowledge. One can see God only if He turns
His light toward His own face.
"The police sergeant goes his rounds in the dark of night with a lantern in his hand. No one
sees his face; but with the help of that light the sergeant sees everybody's face, and others,
too, can see one another. If you want to see the sergeant, however, you must pray to him:
'Sir, please turn the light on your own face. Let me see you.' In the same way one must pray
to God: 'O Lord, be gracious and turn the light of knowledge on Thyself, that I may see Thy
face.'
"A house without light indicates poverty. So one must light the lamp of Knowledge in one's
heart. As it is said in a song:
Lighting the lamp of Knowledge in the chamber of your heart,
Behold the face of the Mother, Brahman's Embodiment."
As Vijay had brought medicine with him, the Master asked a devotee to give him some
water. He was indeed a fountain of infinite compassion. He had arranged for Vijay's boat
fare, since the latter was too poor to pay it. Vijay, Balaram, M., and the other devotees left
for Calcutta in a country boat.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Friends,
On the occasion of the 150th birth anniversary of Swami Vivekananda,a movie 'Vivekananda by Vivekananda'has been released.It is available for download at a price.
Please check the video trailer:
http://www.vivekanandahouse.org/page/vivekananda-vivekananda-movie-trailer-1157

Namaskar

Subramanian. R said...

Siva Temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

Tirup panandAL: 612 504

The temple is 16 kms from Kumbakonam in Tamizh Nadu. The temple is also called ThAdakeswaram. A girl named ThAdakai (not Ramayana
ThAdakai) wanted to garland the Siva Lingam and she could not reach the Lingam on a high pedestal, it is said, Siva Lingam bent and received the garland. When the king tried to keep the Lingam again on a vertical position, he could not do so, in spite of using the elephants to move It. Then he asked Kungiliya Kalaiya Nayanar (one of the 62 Saiva Saints) to solve the problem. The saint tied a rope on the lingam in an end and held the other end tied to his neck and pulled and the Siva Lingam came to the original stance!

Siva is called Sadaiyappar (Jadeswarar) and Uma is called Periya Nayaki (Brahadamba). The temple tank (holy water) is called Brahma Tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Vruksham) is two palm trees. There are two palm trees inside the temple, ever green since a number of years. The shrine of Durga is quite famous here. The temple is mentioned by Jnana Sambandha in 11 verses of Canon 3.

The town is famous for Kasi Math or TirupanandAL Math. This Saiva Math has done yeomen service for propagating the 12 Saiva Canons and also the Sastra texts like Siva Jnana Sutram, Siva Jnana Bodham, Siva Jnana Siddhiyar and other texts. The books are printed and published at a moderate cost.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 442:

While explaining a stanza of His own Sri Bhagavan observed: The Sun illumines the universe, whereas the Sun of Arunachala is so dazzling that the universe is obscured and an unbroken brilliance remains. But it is not realized in the present state and can be realized only if the lotus of the heart blossoms. The ordinary lotus blossoms in the light of the visible Sun. Whereas the subtle Heart blossoms only before the Sun of suns. May Arunachala make my heart blossom to that -- His unbroken brilliance may shine all alone!

Sri Bhagavan continued: The mirror reflects objects yet they are not real because they cannot remain apart from the mirror. Similarly, the world is said to be a reflection in the mind as it does not remain in the absence of the mind. The question arises: If the universe is a reflection, there must be a real object known as the universe in order that it might be reflected in the mind. This amounts
to an admission of the existence of an objective universe. Truly speaking, it is not so.

Therefore the dream illusion is set forth. The dream world has no objective existence. How then is it created? Some mental impressions should be admitted. They are called Vasanas. How were the Vasanas in the mind? The answer is: They were subtle. Just as a whole tree is contained potentially in a seed, so the world is in the mind.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 540:

Once 'A' asked: There is more pleasure in dhyana than in sensual enjoyments. Yet the mind runs after the latter and does not seek the former. Why is it so?

Maharshi: Pleasure or pain are aspects of the mind only. Our essential nature is happiness. But we have forgotten the Self and imagine that the body or the mind is the Self. It is that wrong identity that gives rise to misery. What is to be done? This vasana is very ancient and has continued for innumerable past births. Hence it has grown strong. That must go before the essential nature viz., happiness, asserts itself.

Talks No. 562:

There is a statement in the book Vichara Sangraha that though a person realizes the Self once, he cannot, for that simple reason alone, become a mukta. He continues to remain a victim of Vasanas. Sri Bhagavan was asked whether the realization referred to was the same as the Jnani's, and if so why there should be a difference in their effects.

Maharshi: The experience is the same. Every person experiences the Self consciously or unconsciously. The ajnani's experience is clouded by his vasanas whereas the Jnani's is not so. The Jnani's experience of the Self is therefore distinct and permanent.

A practiser may by long practice gain a glimpse of the Reality. This experience may be vivid for the time being. And yet he will be distracted by the old vasanas and so his experience will not avail him. Such a man must continue his manana and nididhyasana so that all the obstacles may be destroyed. He will then be able to remain permanently in the Real State.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 569:

.......

Explaining Sri Dakshinamurti Stotram, Sri Bhagavan continued...

Which is the darpana (mirror) here? A mirror, as we know it, is an insentient object which reflects light. What corresponds to a mirror in an individual? The light of the Self-luminous Self is reflected on the Mahat tattva. The reflected light is the mind-ether or the pure mind. This illumines the vasanas (latencies) of the individual and hence the sense of 'I' and 'this' arises.

Again, a superficial reading of the Slokas makes one believe that the bondage, liberation, etc., are all related to the Master, i.e. Sri Dakshinamurti. It is absurd. Surrender to Him is meant.

Talks No. 571:

Multiplicity of individuals is a moon point with most persons. A Jiva is only the reflected light on the ego. The person identifies himself with the ego and argues that there must be more like him. He is not easily convinced of the absurdity of his position. Does a man who sees many individuals in his dream persist in believing them to be real and enquire after them when we wakes up?

This argument does not convince the disputant.

Again, there is the moon. Let anyone look at her from any place at any time. She is the same moon. Everyone knows it. Now suppose that there are several receptacles of water reflecting the moon. The images are all different from one another and from the moon herself. If one of the receptacles falls to pieces, that reflection disappears. Its disappearance does not affect the real moon or other reflections. It is similar with an individual attaining Liberation. He alone is liberated.

The sectarian of multiplicity makes this his argument against non duality. "If the Self is single, if one man is liberated, that means that all souls are liberated. In practice it is not so. Therefore Advaita is not correct."

The weakness in the argument is that the reflected light of the Self is mistaken for the original Light of the Self. The ego, the world, and the individuals are all due to the person's Vasanas. When they perish, that person's hallucinations disappear, that is to say, one pitcher is broken and the relative reflection is at an end.

The fact is that the Self is never bound. There can therefore be no release for It. All the troubles are for the ego only.

****

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Knowledge of Brahman
MASTER (to M. and the others): "Is it an easy thing to obtain the Knowledge of Brahman?
It is not possible unless the mind is annihilated. The guru said to the disciple, 'Give me your
mind and I shall give you Knowledge.' In this state one enjoys only spiritual talk and the
company of devotees.
(To Ram) "You are a physician. You know that medicine works only when it mixes with
the patient's blood and becomes one with it. Likewise, in the state of Brahmajnana one sees
God both within and without. One sees that it is God Himself who has become the body,
mind, life, and soul."
M (to himself): "Assimilation!"
MASTER: "A man attains Brahmajnana as soon as his mind is annihilated. With the
annihilation of the mind dies the ego, which says 'I', 'I'. One also attains the knowledge of
Brahman by following the path of devotion. One also attains it by following the path of
knowledge, that is to say, discrimination. The jnanis discriminate, saying, 'Neti, neti', that
is, 'All this is illusory, like a dream.' They analyse the world through the process of 'Not
this, not this'; it is maya. When the world vanishes, only the jivas, that is to say, so many
egos, remain.
"Each ego may be likened to a pot. Suppose there are ten pots filled with water, and the sun
is reflected in them. How many suns do you see?"
A DEVOTEE: "Ten reflections. Besides, there certainly exists the real Sun."
MASTER: "Suppose you break one pot. How many suns do you see now?"
DEVOTEE: "Nine reflected suns. But there certainly exists the real sun."
MASTER: "All right. Suppose you break nine pots. How many suns do you see now?"
DEVOTEE: "One reflected sun. But there certainly exists the real sun."
MASTER (to Girish): "What remains when the last pot is broken?"
GIRISH: "That real sun, sir."
MASTER: "No. What remains cannot be described. What is remains. How will you know
there is a real sun unless there is a reflected sun? 'I-consciousness' is destroyed in samadhi
.
A man climbing down from samadhi to the lower plane cannot describe what he has seen
there." It was late in the evening. Lamps were burning in the drawing-room. Sri
Ramakrishna was in a spiritual mood. The devotees sat around him.
MASTER (in the ecstatic mood): "There is no one else here; so I am telling you this. He
who from the depth of his soul seeks to know God will certainly realize Him. He must. He
alone who is restless for God and seeks nothing but Him will certainly realize Him.
"Those who belong to this places have already come. Those who will come from now on
are outsiders. Such people will come now and then. The Divine Mother will tell them: 'Do
this. Call on God in this way.'
"Why doesn't man's mind dwell on God? You see, more powerful than God is His
Mahamaya, His Power of Illusion. More powerful than the judge is his orderly. (All laugh.)

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 30:

nAn Ar ena manam uL nAdi uLam
naNNave
nAn Am avan thalai nANam uRa -
nAn nAnAth
ThonRum onRu thAnAga thonRinAlum
nAn anRu poruL
PoonRam adhu thAnAm poruL.

When the mind, turned inward, seeking itself, inquiring 'Who am I?', reaches the Heart, the ego, 'I' that rises with the notion of Atman as and in the body, with its head hung, subsides and sinks into the Heart. Then one as 'I-I' appears on its own accord, unceasingly and effortlessly, but this is not the subjective 'I', the ego. It is the Atman, Poornam, All-Full, the true content beyond.

Although in Verse 7 of the work, Sri Bhagavan said that the Reality is that which shines without appearing and disappearing, in this verse, He says that when the ego dies 'something appears' spontaneously (thAn thAnaga) as 'I-I'. Therefore, in order to make clear that that which thus appears, as 'I-I' is not other than the Reality, described in Verse 7. He concludes this verse, by saying, 'Although it appears, it is not 'I' (the ego). It is the whole reality, the Reality which is the Self. That is, just as the rope alone was seen always, even if it is mistaken to be a snake, so the Reality alone shines for ever, when it is mistaken to be the ego. But just as the rope seems to appear 'newly' when the ignorant notion that it is a snake is removed, so the Reality, 'I am' 'seems to appear newly' though Reality is ever there, eternal and all pervading. But only the ignorant notion that 'I am the body' was hiding it just as clouds hide the Sun which is ever there.

In the form of conviction of the awareness 'I am the body' what everybody experiences as the innate subjective awareness of 'I-I' is called the ego or mind. Appearing between the Sat and asat, calling itself as 'I', it functions in the phenomenal world with the sense of doership and enjoyership. When this 'ego' seeks its own origina within with the enquiry, 'Who am I?' thus directing its light (though borrowed) on itself, and reaches the Heart, the ego gets drowned in the source of its awareness. Thus the pseudo-I, the apparent self, dropping dead, - the veil hiding the Atman dropping off -- the true content, Poornam, the All-Full, shines in all its splendor as the Real I-I'. When the moon that shines in all its splendor when the clouds veiling the bright full moon move away, the ever-present Atman -- all along veiled by the chidabhasa Jiva -- now shines as Existence, Awareness, Poornam, upadhi less. This is the form of Sat Chit Ananda, One, that transcends bondage and liberation.

Sri Bhagavan expresses the same idea also in Verse 19 of Upadesa Undiyar as follows:

nAn enRu ezhumidam ethena nAda vuN
nAn thalai sainthidum undipara
Jnana Vicharam idhu undipara.

When one turns within and searches
Whence this 'I' thought arises,
The shamed 'I' vanishes --
And wisdom's quest begins.

contd.,

Sources: Smt. T.R. Kanakammal; Sri
Sadhu Om; Dr. T.M.P Mahadevan.)

*****

Anonymous said...

By Your Grace ~ Jai Gurudev - Ramana Maharshi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaNAbERNNRo

Anonymous said...

i quite enjoyed it.......maybe you will to :)

.

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 30:

continues...

Sri Bhagavan here merely uses the word, manam, nAn Ar ena manam uL nAdi... He says 'amalamadhi' in Verse 3 of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam. 'ahamukamA andha amalamadhi thannAl.. One has to only infer that Sri Bhagavan always
has meant amalamadhi, pure mind.

Like a maddened monkey drunk with the wine of worldliness, it jumps from one object to another, knowing no rest or peace which is the end of its quest. What has to be done first is to steady the mind, to make it one pointed. The method of stilling the mind, as taught by Sri Bhagavan, is the 'I' enquiry. The question Who am I? of course, rises in the mind. But if it pursued properly, it will take one beyond the mind. The inquiry, in fact, will lead to the Heart center which is the seat of Reality, the true 'I'. Then the 'I' alone shines with nothing else besides. It is poonRam, puranam, the plenum. Nothing is there before it nor anything after it.

puranam adah purnam idam
purnAt purnam udacyaate,
purnasya purnam AdAya
purnam evAvasisyate.

That is the whole, this is the whole, from the whole, the whole arises; taking away the whole from the whole, the whole alone remains.

Sri Bhagavan also says in Anma Vidya Kirtanam, Verse 2:

nAn Ar idam ethenRu ponAl
ninaivugaL
nAn nAn enak guhaiyuL thAnAi
thigazhum Anma
Jnaname; idhuve mOname; Eka vAname;
inbath thAname....

Questing within enquiring Who am I?
And whence this thought? all other
thoughts,
Vanish. And as I, I, within the
Heart cave
The Self shines of its own accord.
Such Self awareness is the only
Heaven,
This stillness, this abode of
Bliss.

Smt. Kanakammal says here the Mundaka Upanishad Story, to explain these two 'I's as two birds of golden plumage. Inseparable companions, perched on the self same tree; one on a higher, the other on a lower branch. The one on the lower branch looks like reflection of the former, tastes the sweet and bitter fruits of the same tree. While the other, unmoving and tasting neither, simply witnesses. The one that tastes the fruits is the Jivatma 'eating' the fruits of karma. As the bird moves further and further way, its reflected form becomes clearer and clearer, and eating bitter fruits, it comes to grief. As it moves up higher and higher the reflection disappears and it finally merges with the other (Paramatma)

continued..

(Sources: as indicated in the previous comment on the same verse.)

****

hey jude said...

Peter, I listened to 'by your grace' by Krishna Das it was nice. The photos of Ramana give it extra appeal.
You might like to listen to thismoment23. A guy in a baseball cap with guitar. 'Papaji - Ramana Arunachala song' I really like it.

Ravi said...

Peter,
Thanks very much for that Prayer song.It is quite gentle in its yearning and the Pictures of Sri Bhagavan add to the Beauty.The Guitar accompaniment simulates the Sarod,although the Sarod would add a greater intensity and expressiveness.
Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Peter,
I found another version of the song with Neem Karoli Baba pictures featured,perhaps the Original version.Baba is indeed a Great soul,I recall your post on Hanuman ChAlisa.
Namaskar.

Anonymous said...

Thanks hey jude, I will take a look.

And Ravi, some devotees stories
re meeting Neem Karoli Baba http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVlf9As9Eag
.

Ravi said...

Peter,
Wonderful to see how ramdass discovered Baba.'Serve people,Feed them'-is the message that Swami Vivekananda had also said.Sri Bhagavan just did that and to this day,the Asramam continues that service.
As Ramdass says-God,Guru and Self are one.In the presence of the Guru,one discovers the depths of the self.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

Tiru KurukAvur (KadAvur) - 609 115:

This temple is close to Sirkazhi, the birth place of Tiru Jnana Sambandhar. There are Tevaram songs about this temple only by Sundaramurti Swamigal, in the Canon 7.

Siva is called VeLLadaiyiswrar. Uma is called Kaviyam kaNNi ammai. Siva in that name means one who is milky white, (due to Vibhuti) and Uma in that name means one who has got eyes ochre red. The tirtham (holy tank or well) is PAl KiNaRu tirtham or the well with milk.

When Sundaramurti and his fellow devotees were coming towards this place, they had severe thirst and acute hunger. Siva had come in the guise of a brahmin and offered water from a water shed and food in baskets tied in cloth. The devotees took them with great relish and then dozed off for some time. Siva who came with water and food disappeared along with the watershed and empty vessels when the devotees were sleeping. Sundarmurti after waking up found that it was the trick of 'his friend' Siva and sang the verse,
'PAduvAr pasi tirpAi..'

Even during the present days, on the full moon day of Chaitra month, this 'miracle' is celebrated in the temple. The temple well contains normal potable water. On the new moon day of Pushya month, the color of well water turns milky white.

While the village is called KurukAvur, the temple is also called VeLLadai.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 616:

.....
.....

Sri Bhagavan: Some upanishads also speak of 101 nadis, which spread from the heart, one of them being the vital nadi. If the jiva comes down from above and gets reflected in the brain, as the yogis say, there must be a reflecting surface in action. That must also be capable of limiting the Infinite Consciousness to the limits of the body. In short the Universal Being becomes limited as Jiva. Such reflecting medium is furnished by the aggregate of vasnas of the individual. It acts like the water in a pot which reflects the image of an object. If the pot is drained of its water there will be no reflection. The object will remain without being reflected. The object here is the Universal Being Consciousness, which is all pervading and therefore immanent in
all. It need not be cognized by reflection alone. It is self resplendent. Therefore, the seeker's aim must be to drain away the vasanas from the heart and let no reflection obstruct the Light of Eternal Consciousness. This is achieved by the search for the origin of the ego and by diving into the heart. This is the direct method for Self Realization. One who adopts it need not worry about nadis, the brain, the Sushumna, the Paranadi, the Kundalini, pranayama or the six centers.

......
......

When I was on the Hill, Nayana (Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni) once argued that the brain was the seat of vasanas, because it consisted of
innumerable cells in which the vasanas were contained and illumined by the light of the Self which projected from the heart. Only this set a person working or thinking.

But I said, 'How can it be so?' The vasanas must be with one's Self and can never remain away from the Self. If, as you say, the vasanas be contained in the brain and the Heart is the seat of the Self, a person who is decapitated must rid of his vasanas and should not be reborn. You agree that it is absurd. Now can you say that the Self is in the brain with vasanas? If so, why should be the head bend down when one falls asleep? Moreover a person does not touch his head and say 'I'. Therefore it follows that the Self is in the Heart and the vasanas are also there in an exceedingly subtle form.

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 616 - continues...

'When the vasanas are projected from the Heart they are associated with the Light of the Self and the person is said to think. The vasanas which lie embedded in an atomic condition grow in size in their passage from heart to brain. The brain is the screen on which the images of the vasanas are thrown and it is also the place of their functional distribution. The brain is the seat of the mind, and the mind works through it.'

So then this is what happens. When a vasana is released and it comes into play, it is associated with the light of the Self. It passes from the heart to the brain and on its way it grows more and more until it holds the field all alone and all the vasanas are thus kept in abeyance for the time being. When the thought is reflected in the brain it appears as an image on the screen. The person is said to have a clear perception of things. He is a great thinker or discoverer. Neither the thought that is extolled as a being original, nor the thing, nor the country which is claimed to a be a new discovery, is really original or new. It could not manifest unless it was already in the mind. It was of course very subtle and remained imperceptible, because it lay repressed by the more urgent or insistent thoughts or vasanas. When they have spent themselves this thought arises and and by concentration the Light of the Self makes it clear, so that it appears magnificent, original and revolutionary. In fact, it was only within all along.

......
......

Although the powers appear to be wonderful to those who do not possess them, yet they are only transient. It is useless to aspire for that which is transient. All these wonders are contained in the one changeless Self. The world is thus within and not without. This meaning is contained in Verses 11 and 12 of Chapter V of Sri Ramana Gita.

....
So the Heart comprises all. This is what is taught to Svetaketu by the illustration of the seed of a fig tree. The Source is a point without any dimensions. It expands as the cosmos on the one hand and as Infinite Bliss on the other. That point is the pivot. From a single vasana starts, multiplies as the experiencer of 'I' experience, and the world. The experiencer and the source are referred to in the mantra. Two birds, exactly alike, arise simultaneously.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan about Vasanas:

Talks No. 586:

An Andhra visitor asked: How is one to be quiet? It is so difficult to be so. Should we practice yoga for it? Or is there any other means for it?

Maharshi: What is not difficult looks difficult. A man is prone to wander about. He is told to stay quiet at home, but finds it difficult to do so because he wants to wander about.

Devotee: Is there any particular upasana, which is more efficacious than others?

Maharshi: All upasanas are equally efficacious. But each one takes easily to one kind of upasana which suits his previous vasanas.

Talks No. 617:

......

Sri Bhagavan: If the experience of bliss in deep sleep is a fact, how is it that no one among all human beings recollects it? A diver who has found the desired thing under water cannot make his discovery known to the expectant persons on the shore until he emerges from the water. Similarly the sleeper cannot express his experience because he cannot contact the organs of expression until he is awakened by his vasanas in due course. Therefore it follows that the Self is the light of Sat Chit Ananda.

Talks No. 625:

Miss Merston, an English lady visitor: I have read Who am I? While inquiring who the 'I' is, I cannot hold it for any length of time. Secondly, I have no interest in the environment, but yet I have hopes that I shall mind some interest in life.

Maharshi: If there are no interests it is good. (The interpreter points out that the questioner hopes to find some interest in life).

Maharshi: That means there are those vasanas. A dreamer dreams a dream. He sees the dream world with pleasures, paint etc., But he wakes up and then loses all interest in the dream world. So it is with the waking world also. Just as the dream world, being only a part of yourself and not different from you, ceases to interest you, so also the present (waking) world would cease to interest you if you awake from this waking dream (samsara) and realize that it is part of your Self and not an objective reality. Because you think you are apart from the objects around you, you desire a thing. But if you understand that the thing was only a thought form you would no longer desire it. All things are like bubbles on water. You are the water and the objects are the bubbles. They cannot exist apart from the water, but they are not quite the same as the water.

.......

.......

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 30:

continues...

The experience of being the Atman, the light of pure Consciousness of the Atman, which shines with continual sphurana of 'I-I', is different from awareness of the 'I' of the chidabhasa - the jiva, that was erstwhile functioning with the impregnated sensed of the Atman as the body. This pure light of Consciousness, that pulsates with the incessant sphurana of 'I-I' is undifferentiated, unfragmented, indivisible with no admixture of the chidabhasajiva and it shines as the space of Consciousness beyond. This is the All-full or the plenary state, also called Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Sri Bhagavan explains the true content of the feeling of pure awareness of 'I' as 'tAnam poruL' (Self is the content), thus indicating the death of individuality. The same is voiced in Verse 21 of Upadesa Undiyar as

nAn ennum sor poruLAmathu nALume
nAnaRRa thookathum undipaRa
namathinmai neekkathal undipaRa.

Of the term, 'I' the permanent
import
Is That. For even in deep sleep
Where we have no sense of 'I'
We do not cease to be.

While the word nAn (I) represents the ego, tAn (Self) refers to the Atman. When the chidabhasajiva says 'I' he merely refers to his body. But when a Jivan Mukta says nAn (I) it means nAn nAne (I am that I am). It will be worthwhile here referring to the Verse 20 Upadesa Undiyar also which has the same content.

nAnonRu thAnathu nAn nAn enRu
onRathu
tAnakath thonRume undipaRa
tAnthu poonRamam undipaRa.

Sri Bhagavan also uses here the word, Poonram, PoorNam.

Where this I notion faded
There appears 'I-I' by itself
The One, the very Self, the
Infinite.

Verse 30 concluded.

(Sources: T.R. Kanakammal; Sri Sadhu Om; Prof. K. Swaminathan, Dr. T.M.P. Mahadevan)

*****

hey jude said...

Peter, Ravi and friends, There are so many wonderful stories about Neem Karoli Baba. Here's just one:
Once Maharaji went to a barber to have his beard shaved. As the barber was working he told Maharaj that his son had run away some time ago and that he did not know where he was. He was missing him terribly and worried about him. Maharaji's face was only half shaved, the other side all lathered up but Maharaji insisted that he must go out just then and urinate. He returned shortly, the shave was finished and Maharaji left. The next day the barber's son returned to his father with a strange story. He had been living in a town 100 miles away and the day before, this fat man whose beard was only half shaved, had come running up to him in the hotel where he worked. He had given him money and insisted that he return at once to his father by train that same night.








Neem Karoli Baba; which one shall I choose.....
"

Subramanian. R said...

The enigmatic mind:

Detachment (Vairagya) and sense of
discrimination (Viveka) form the springboard for salvation, say all scriptural teachings and these may either be consciously cultivated or arise in an individual through despair and disillusionment. At one point of time, even the young prince Lord Rama was disillusioned with life and struggled with a restless mind. The ephemeral and unstable nature of life made him wonder about the purpose of existence and He sought the spiritual guidance from His preceptor Sage Vasistha. The thrust of the instruction is the text Yoga
Vasishta, where it is highlighted the need to identify what alone is everlasting (Self) and not get confused by whatever is fleeting.

Knowledge of the Self frees one from the cycle of birth and death and though not easily attainable, the Sage quotes many examples and stories of those who have attempted and succeeded in this obstacle ridden quest. The crux of the problem is the mind which colors perceptions to mask the Truth. The working of the mind and its powers are very enigmatic. The mind itself is bound by the vasanas or the innate tendencies, the jiva accumulates through its various births. So the individual gets enmeshed in further karma when his acts are thus prompted by his mind. The inquiry into the Self alone can delink the delusions of the mind.

It is the fault of mind to believe that the superimposed external world as real as in the example of the serpent and the rope. The idea of the serpent is a mere assumption of the mind while the rope is the reality. The mind's association with the external world makes it believe in its reality, while the ?Atma alone is everlasting.

Vasishta explained to Rama the subtle nature of the Atma and the mind's crucial role in a jiva's process of realization. That the cycle of creation is made possible by the power of Maya, is clearly evident to a Jnani's perception,
since Jnani alone has transcended the Maya.

But a jiva's mind or intellect is limited and hence not able to view the creation in its proper perceptive. Hence joy or sorrow in the world does not affect a Jnani as it does an unrealized jiva.

*****

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
At dawn some of the devotees were up. They saw the Master, naked as a child, pacing up
and down the room, repeating the names of the various gods and goddesses. His voice was
sweet as nectar. Now he would look at the Ganges, now stop in front of the pictures
hanging on the wall and bow down before them, chanting all the while the holy names in
his sweet voice. He chanted: "Veda, Purana, Tantra; Gita, Gayatri; Bhagavata, Bhakta,
Bhagavan." Referring to the Gita, he repeated many times, "Tagi, tagi, tagi." Now and then
he would say: "O Mother, Thou art verily Brahman, and Thou art verily Sakti. Thou art
Purusha and Thou art Prakriti. Thou art Virat. Thou art the Absolute, and Thou dost
manifest Thyself as the Relative. Thou art verily the twenty-four cosmic principles."
In the mean time the morning service had begun in the temples of Kali and Radhakanta.
Sounds of conch-shells and cymbals were carried on the air. The devotees came outside the
room and saw the priests and servants gathering flowers in the garden for the divine service
in the temples. From the nahabat floated the sweet melody of musical instruments, befitting
the morning hours.
Narendra and the other devotees finished their morning duties and came to the Master.
With a sweet smile on his lips Sri Ramakrishna was standing on the northeast verandah,
close to his own room.
NARENDRA: "We noticed several sannyasis belonging to the sect of Nanak in the
Panchavati."
MASTER: "Yes, they arrived here yesterday. (To Narendra) I'd like to see you all sitting
together on the mat."
As they sat there the Master looked at them with evident delight. He then began to talk with
them. Narendra asked about spiritual discipline.
MASTER: "Bhakti, love of God, is the essence of all spiritual discipline. Through love one
acquires renunciation and discrimination naturally.
"

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Why temples are holy
As soon as the Master entered the worship hall he bowed low before the dais. Having taken
his seat, he said to M. and the other devotees, "Narendra once asked me, 'What good is
there in bowing before the Brahmo Samaj temple?' The sight of the temple recalls to my
mind God alone; then God-Consciousness is kindled in my mind. God is present where
people talk about Him. One feels there the presence of all the holy places. Places of
worship recall God alone to my mind
.
"Once a devotee was overwhelmed with ecstasy at the sight of a babla-tree. The idea
flashed in his mind that the handle of the axe used in the garden of the temple of
Radhakanta was made from the wood of the babla. Another devotee had such devotion for
his guru that he would be overwhelmed with divine feeling at the sight of his guru's
neighbours. Krishna-consciousness would be kindled in Radha's mind at the sight of a
cloud, a blue dress, or a painting of Krishna. She would become restless and cry like a mad
person, 'Krishna, where art Thou?' "
GHOSAL: "But madness is not desirable."
MASTER: "What do you mean? Was Radha's madness the madness that comes from
brooding over worldly objects and makes one unconscious? One attains that madness by
meditating on God. Haven't you heard of love-madness and knowledge-madness?
"
A BRAHMO DEVOTEE: "How can one realize God?"
MASTER: "By directing your love to Him and constantly reasoning that God alone is real
and the world illusory. The aswattha tree alone is permanent; its fruit is transitory."
How to spiritualize the passions
BRAHMO: "We have passions like anger and lust. What shall we do with these?"
MASTER: "Direct the six passions to God. The impulse of lust should be turned into the
desire to have intercourse with Atman. Feel angry at those who stand in your way to God.
Feel greedy for Him. If you must have the feeling of I and Mine, then associate it with God.
Say, for instance, 'My Rama, my Krishna.' If you must have pride, then feel like
Bibhishana, who said, 'I have touched the feet of Rama with my head; I will not bow this
head before anyone else.'
"
Responsibility for sins
BRAHMO: "If it is God that makes me do everything, then I am not responsible for my
sins."
MASTER (with a smile): "Yes, Duryodhana also said that. 'O Krishna, I do what Thou,
seated in my heart, makest me do.' If a man has the firm conviction that God alone is the
Doer and he is His instrument, then he cannot do anything sinful. He who has learnt to
dance correctly never makes a false step. One cannot even believe in the existence of God
until one's heart becomes pure
."
Sri Ramakrishna looked at the devotees assembled in the worship hall and said: "It is very
good to gather in this way, now and then, and think of God and sing His name and glories.
But the worldly man's yearning for God is momentary. It lasts as long as a drop of water on
a red-hot frying-pan
."

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons: (Lesser Known Temples):

Tiru OmAmpuliyur - 608 306:

This temple is about 30 kms. from Chidambaram. Siva is called "Thuyar
Tirtha Nathar." (one who removes misrery) Uma is called Poongudi Nayaki. (one who lives in a house of flowers). The holy waters (tirtham) for the temple is KoLLidam, a branch of Kaveri.

Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 10 verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 9 verses.

The special shrine for Sri Dakshinamurti is an attraction in this temple. Normally Sri Dakshinamurti will be in a small shrine to the left of Siva in the prakara (pradakshina path). Here there is a separate shrine. According to a story, Uma received the pranava mantra upadesa from Siva in this temple and so the temple is also called "Pranava VAkya puram."

A hunter, once chased by a tiger climbed on to a bhilva tree and during the entire night, when tiger was waiting at the foot of the tree to pounce on him, he plucked bhilva leaves and dropped them throughout the night to ward off sleep. There was a Siva Linga under the tree and since bhilva leaves fell on the Lingam and so Siva graced him at the dawn, by appearing before him.

There is another small Siva temple called VadadhaLi. The Saiva saints also mention this temple in their verses.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishta:

Talks No. 16:

......

Maharshi then read out from the Tamizh version of Yoga Vasishtam,
the story of Deerga Tapasvi who had two sons, Punya and Papa.
After the death of the parents, the younger one mourned the loss and the elder brother consoled him as follows: "Why do you mourn the loss of our parents? I shall tell you where they are; they are only within ourselves and are ourselves. For the life-current has passed through innumerable incarnations, births and deaths, pleasures and pains etc., just as water current in a river flows over rocks, pits, sands, elevations and depressions on its way, but still the current is unaffected. Again the pleasure and pains, births and deaths, are like undulations on the surface of seeming water in the mirage of the ego. The only reality is the Self from where the ego appears, and runs through thoughts which manifest themselves as the universe and in which mothers and fathers, friends and relatives appear and disappear. They are nothing but manifestations of the Self so that one's parents are not outside the Self. So there is no reason to mourn. Learn it, realize it and be happy."

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:

Talks No. 41:

.......
.......
Devotee: What is that one thing, knowing which all doubts are solved?

Maharshi: Know the doubter. If the doubter be held, the doubts will not exist. Here the doubter is transcendent. Again, when the doubts cease to exist, there will be no doubts arising. From where will they arise. All are Jnanis, Jivanmuktas. Only they are not aware of the fact. Doubts must be uprooted. This means that the doubter must be uprooted. Here the doubter is mind.

Devotee: What is the method?

Maharshi: 'Who am I?' is the investigation.

Devotee: May we perform Japa?

Maharshi: Why do you think I am this? Investigate and the thoughts cease. What is, namely the Self, will be revealed as the inescapable
residue.

Devotee: Is the hatha yoga necessary?

Maharshi: It is one of the aids -- not that is always necessary. It depends upon the person. Vichara surpasses pranayama. In Yoga Vasishta, Chudala advises investigation (Vichara) to Sikhidvaja for killing the ego.

Reality can be reached by holdingto prana or intellect. Hatha yoga is the former; Vichara is the latter.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishsta:

Talks No. 49:

Some men asked the Master questions which ultimately resolved themselves into one, that 'I' is not perceptible however much they might struggle.

The Master's reply was in the usual strain:

Who is it that says that 'I' is not perceptible? Is there an 'I' ignorant, and an 'I' elusive? Are there two 'I's in the same person? Ask yourself these questions. It is the mind which says that 'I' is not perceptible. Where is that mind from? Know the mind. You will find it a myth. King Janaka said, 'I have discovered the thief who had been ruining me so long. I will now deal with him summarily. Then I shall be happy.' Similarly it will be with others.

.......
.......

An 'I rises forth with every thought and with its disappearance that 'I' disappears too. Many "I"s are born and die every moment. The subsisting mind is the real trouble. That is the thief according to Janaka. Find him out and you will be happy.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishta:

Talks No. 76:

Mr. K.S.N. Iyer said that he was not convinced how spiritual life could be reconciled to worldly activities. The Master in answer cited some verses from Yoga Vasishtam. (The original is said to be millions of verses, of which only 32,000 stanzas are now found in the Sanskrit text. It was condensed to 6000 and called Laghu Yoga Vasishtam. The latter has been rendered into Tamizh in 2,050 stanzas.)

Devotee: Without the mind concentrating on it, the work cannot be performed satisfactorily. How is the mind to be spiritually disposed and the work kept going as well?

Maharshi: The mind is only a projection from the Self, appearing in the waking state. In deep sleep, you do not say whose son you are and so on. As soon as you wake up you say you are so and so, and recognize the world and so on. the world is only lokah, lokah = lokyate iti lokah, what is perceived is the world. (From
lokah 's datu, "lok" came the English world 'look'.)

That which is seen is lokah or the world. Which is the eye that sees it? that is the ego which rises and sinks periodically. But you exist always. Therefore That which lies beyond the ego is consciousness - the Self.

In deep sleep, the mind is merged and not destroyed. That which merges reappears. It may happen in meditation also. But the mind which is destroyed cannot reappear. The yogi's aim must be to destroy it and not to sink in laya. In the peace of dhyana, laya ensues but it is not enough. It must be supplemented by other practices for destroying the mind. Some people have gone into samadhi with a trifling thought and after a long time awakened in the trail of the same thought. In the meantime, generations have passed away in the world. Such a yogi has not destroyed his mind. Its destruction is the non recognition of it as being apart from the Self. Even now the mind is not. Recognize it. How can you do it if not in everyday activities? They go on automatically. Know that the mind promoting them is not real but a phantom proceeding from the Self. That is how the mind is destroyed.


*****

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 31:

(Comments based on the commentaries of Smt. T.R. Kanakammal, Sri Sadhu Om, Dr. T.M.P Mahadevan)

Tannai azhitthu ezhuntha
tanmayAnandharukku
Ennai uLathu onRu iyaRRuthaRku? -
tannai alAthu
Anniyam onRum aRiyAr avar nilamai
Innaathu enRu unnal evan?

For one who, having destroyed the ego, is awake to the nature of the Self which is bliss, what is there to be accomplished? Other than the Self, he is not aware of anything. How can his state be comprehended?

A Brahma Jnani has no other work to do. Ashtavakra Gita says: Even batting of eyelids is a botheration for him! Sri Bhagavan also says the same thing in Verse 5, of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam, 'eppozhuthum anniaymil anbu seyum..' He sees every thing as the Self and loves it. He sees all things as forms of Self and loves them as none other.

This verse is in praise of the one who has attained the goal even while tenanting the body, the Jivan Mukta. Inquiry results in the disappearance of the pseudo 'I' and the realization of the true 'I'. The pseduo 'I', the ego - the subject in all empirical usage. When its nature is inquired into, it 'sinks crestfallen' (nAnAm avan thalai nANamuRa.. says the previous verse 30) because it has not title to Reality, although it assumes the title till the discovery is made. Self discovery, therefore, spells the destruction of the ego. In deep sleep, it must be remembered, the ego is not destroyed, but is only resolved in its cause, viz., ignorance. The destruction of the ego takes place with the onset of knowledge. And when there is Self Knowledge, there is Release. Release does not await the disintegration of the body which is called death, the reason being that release is one's eternal state. What obscures it is ignorance, nescience. When that is removed, the Self's nature as freedom stands self revealed. This is called Moksha or release, the Prabodha or awakening from the slumber of ignorance.

The mukta is the buddha (the awakened.) He is awake to the nature of the Self which is bliss. Release, therefore, is not a condition of emptiness, nor mere absence of sorrow. It is of the nature of unexcellable bliss, the highest value. This is so because moksha is the Self. He who gains the Self attains the plenitude of happiness. There is nothing more that he should accomplish, for he has accomplished all that has to be accomplished. He us krta-krtya. If there were anything other than the Self, he might want to accomplish it. Since there is nothing besides the Self, what is there to accomplish?

There is no awareness there of anything other than the Self. The Self is Awareness. How can it be comprehended? How can it be comprehended? For all comprehension involves duality.

Saint Arunagiri Natha says in Verse 30 of Kandhar Anubhuti:

avvARu aRivAr aRihinRathu alAl
evvARu oruavrku isaivippathuve?

Again in Verse 41, the saint says:

thannam thani ninRathu thAn aRiya
Innam oruvaku isavippathuvo?

How can one narrate His state to others, when he has realized That as It is. Staying alone if one has realized That, how can he tell his state to others?

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 31:

continues....

When the ego is offered as an oblation in the fire of Jnana, it marks the demise of the doer of actions, the Jiva, along with his array of instruments of action, perception and inner organs. There is no more action to be performed him. The vasanas impelling him to act are also naught. For such a one so firmly rooted and poised in the Self, there is absolutely nothing to do from the point of the ego. His only action will be to remain stepped in stillness; for ever remaining poised in the stillness of Awareness, as the moveless Essence is the most perfect and the greatest of all activity. All other actions, however great and exalted, are less perfect, wanting and tainted. Hence he is called Mahakarta, the Great Doer.

Both performance and abstention from performance of actions are the same to the Jnani. If at all he does anything, his actions will be perfect for they are bereft of blemishes like desire, fear, and a sense of doership and enjoyership. Such one is ever in Samadhi - Sahaja Samadhi. His Samadhi is not disturbed by actions nor are actions hindered in the least by a samadhi. Therefor he is called akara (non doer).

Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 1151:

The sage's silent, firm abidance
As self awareness which succeeds
The ego's death, Brahman's own
state,
Of bliss supreme, the total absence
Of another, this experience,
None can understand.
(Tr. Prof.K. Swaminathan)

Then, how can such a jivanmukta, write poetry (Sri Sankara, Sri Bhagavan), establish Maths (Sri Sankara) or even cut vegetables and cook food for others? (Sri Bhagavan).

Muruganar answers in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 1139:

If it is asked, 'We actually see the Jnani performing actions. How can actions be performed in the absence of the sense of doership?', you should be convinced that because his inner attachment (the ego) is dead, he has God himself residing in his Heart and performing those actions.

(Tr. David Godman)

Sri Bhagavan says in entry dated May, 5 of 1946: ...'Some power acts through his body and uses his body to get the work done.'

A verse from KaNNudaiya VaLLalar in Ozhivil Odukkam (verse 6 of Kiriyai kazhaRRi) says:

A burnt stick cannot appear anew;
Milk is never reborn in ghee;
Like the sun swallowing the
darkness dense,
Jnana drowning ignorance is
christened 'death of action'
Will Jnanis indulge in action
blemished?

concluded.

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER: "Did you have any conversation with Bhaskarananda?"
MANILAL: "Yes, sir. We had a long talk. Among other things we discussed the problem of
good and evil. He said to me: 'Don't follow the path of evil. Give up sinful thoughts. That is
how God wants us to act. Perform only those duties that are virtuous.' "
The seer of God transcends good and evil
MASTER: "Yes, that is also a path, meant for worldly-minded people. But those whose
spiritual consciousness has been awakened, who have realized that God alone is real and all
else illusory, cherish a different ideal. They are aware that God alone is the Doer and others
are His instruments.
"Those whose spiritual consciousness has been awakened never make a false step. They do
not have to reason in order to shun evil. They are so full of love of God that whatever
action they undertake is a good action. They are fully conscious that they are not the doers
of their actions, but mere servants of God. They always feel: 'I am the machine and He is
the Operator. I do as He does through me. I speak as He speaks through me. I move as He
moves me.'
"Fully awakened souls are beyond virtue and vice. They realize that it is God who does
everything
.
Seeing God in everything
"There was a monastery in a certain place. The monks residing there went out daily to beg
their food. One day a monk, while out for his alms, saw a landlord beating a man
mercilessly. The compassionate monk stepped in and asked the landlord to stop. But the
landlord was filled with anger and turned his wrath against the innocent monk. He beat the
monk till he fell unconscious on the ground. Someone reported the matter to the monastery.
The monks ran to the spot and found their brother lying there. Four or five of them carried
him back and laid him on a bed. He was still unconscious. The other monks sat around him
sad at heart; some were fanning him. Finally someone suggested that he should be given a
little milk to drink. When it was poured into his mouth he regained consciousness. He
opened his eyes and looked around. One of the monks said, 'Let us see whether he is fully
conscious and can recognize us.' Shouting into his ear, he said, 'Revered sir, who is giving
you milk?' 'Brother,' replied the holy man in a low voice, 'He who beat me is now giving
me milk
.'
"But one does not attain such a state of mind without the realization of God."
MANILAL: "Sir, what you have just said applies to a man of a very lofty spiritual state. I
talked on such topics in a general way with Bhaskarananda."
MASTER: "Does he live in a house?"
MANILAL: "Yes, sir. He lives with a devotee."
MASTER: "How old is he now?"
MANILAL: "About fifty-five."
MASTER: "Did you talk about anything else?"
MANILAL: "I asked him how to cultivate bhakti. He said: 'Chant the name of God. Repeat
the name of Rama.' "
MASTER: "That is very good."
The worship was over in the temples and the bells rang for the food offerings in the shrines.
As it was a summer noon the sun was very hot. The flood-tide began in the Ganges and a
breeze came up from the south. Sri Ramakrishna was resting in his room after his meal.

Namaskar.

Anonymous said...

The Last Photos of Ramana Maharshi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2COVlINSpqM

To devotees who begged him to cure himself for the sake of his followers, Sri Ramana is said to have replied, "Why are you so attached to this body? Let it go" and, "Where can I go? I am here."

.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva Temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known Temples.)

Tiru NaLLARu - 609 607

Tiru NaLLARu is in the Union Territory of Puduchery. There are direct buses to this town from Thanjavur, Tiruvarur and Kumbakonam.

Siva is called DharbAranyeswarar.
Dharba means kusa grass and AraNya is forest. The place must have been a thick forest of dharba grass. Uma is called BhogamArtha PooNmulaiyAL.

The holy waters (temple tank) is called NaLa Tirtham. NaLan, a puranic character, who was afflicted by the planetary position of Saturn got relief by bathing in this tank. For the same reason, the temple is also famous for its shrine of Saturn. Thousands pray in this temple, when Saturn transits to unfavorable positions in their respective horoscopes. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is again only a thick bush of kusa grass.

Tiru Jnana Sambandha has sung 11 verses about this temple. Tiru Navukkarasar has sung 10 verses and Sundarmurti SwamigaL in 10 verses.

Siva here is said to have been prayed to, by Brahma, Vishnu, Sage Kasyapa, Sage Agasthya, Arjuna, Bhoja Raja and others.

This is one of the seven temples where Siva had shown seven of His dances. Here the dance is called Unmatha Natanam, i.e dance of a mad man.

It is noteworthy that the Siva Lingam appears in stone, with engravings as if it is a bunch of dharba grass.

One decad of Tiru Jnana Sambandhar relating to this temple is quite famous. From the Decad of Tiru NaLLAru, Sambandha chose the verse,
'BhogamArtha PoonmulaiyAL..' and placed the palm leaf containing this verse into burning fire, when he was debating with Jains in Madurai. The palm leaf did not get burnt at all! And it remained as
before. Whereas the palm leaf containing mantras of Jains got burnt and became black.


NangaL konai naLLARanai amudhai
NAyinen maRanthu en ninaikkene..
- Sundaramurti - 7.5.)

How can this lowly dog, think of anything else forgetging the Lord of NaLLARu, who is our nectar?

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring Yoga Vasishta:

Talks No. 129:

An elderly gentleman, formerly a co-worker with B.V. Narasimha Swamiand author of some Visishtadvaita work, visited the place for the first time. He asked about rebirths, if it is possible for the linga sarira (subtle body) to get dissolved and be reborn in two years after death.

Maharshi: Yes. Surely. Not only can one be reborn, one may be for twenty or forty or even seventy years old in the new body though only two years after death. Sri Bhagavan cited Lila's story from Yoga Vasishtam.

Sreyo hi jananam abhyasat jnanat
dhyanam,
dhyanat karamaphala tyagahn |

Here Jnana stands for knowledge without practice; abhayasa stands for practice without knowledge; dhyana stands for practice with knowledge.

"Knowledge without practice accompanying it is superior to practice without knowledge. Practice with knowledge is superior to knowledge without practice accompanying it. Karmaphala tyagah,
nishkama karma as of a Jnani -- action without desire - is superior to knowledge with practice.

Devotee: What is the difference between yoga and surrender?

Maharshi: Surrender is Bhakti Yoga.
To reach the source of the I-thought is the destruction of the ego, is the attainment of the goal, is prapatti (surrender), jnana etc.,

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:

Talks No. 146:

......
......

Maharshi: The ego is like one's shadow thrown on the ground. If one attempts to bury it, it will be foolish. The Self is only one. If limited, it is the ego. If unlimited it is Infinite and is the Reality. The bubbles are different from one another and numerous, but the ocean is only one. Similarly the egos are many, whereas the Self is one and only one.

When told that you are not the ego, realize the Reality. Why do you still identify yourself with the ego? It is like saying, 'Don't think of the monkey while taking the medicine.' -- It is impossible.
Similarly it happens with the common folk. When the Reality is mentioned, why do you continue to meditate Sivoham or Aham Brahmasmi? The significance must be traced and understood. It is not enough to repeat the bare words or think of them.

Reality is simply the loss of the ego. Destroy the ego by seeking its identity. Because the ego is no entity it will automatically vanish and Reality will shine forth by itself. This is the direct method. Whereas all other methods are done, only retaining the ego. In those paths there arises so many doubts and the eternal question remains to be tackled finally. But in this method the final question is the only one and it is raised from the very beginning. No sadhana are necessary for engaging in this quest.

There is no greater mystery than this - viz., ourselves being the Reality we seek to gain reality. We think that there is something hiding our Reality and that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. It is ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past efforts. That which will be on the day you laugh is also here and now.

Devotee: So it is great pretending?

Maharshi: Yes.

In Yoga Vasishtam it is said, 'What is Real is hidden from us, but what is false, is revealed as true.' We are actually experiencing the Reality only. Still we do not know. Is it not a wonder of wonders?

The quest 'Who am I?' is the axe with which to cut off the ego.

*****

Ravi said...

Friends,
annAmalai swami maintained a diary of Sri Bhagavan's teachings-and this is published (in original Tamil) by Sri Sadguru annAmalai swamigal spiritual trust-Price Rs40/-.The Book's title is 'Sri BhagavAnum adiyaEnum'(Sri Bhagavan and his devotee).

This presents the teachings of Sri Bhagavan in an utterly simple manner.

I am given to understand that it will be soon available at Sri Ramanasramam.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:

Talks No. 403:

.......

When asked if it was true that some devotees have had the privilege of feeling on Sri Bhagavan's Heart-Center to be on the right by placing their hands on Sri Bhagavan's chest. Sri Bhagavan said: "Yes." (Mr. Viswantha Iyer, Narayana Reddi and others have said that they felt Sri Bhagavan's Heart Center to be on the right side by placing their hands on His chest.)

A devotee rightly observed that if hands could feel and locate the Heart Center, delicate scientific instruments should certainly do it.

Devotee: The Heart is said to be on the right, on the left or on in the center. With such differences of opinion how are we to meditate on Hridaya?

Maharshi: You ARE and it is a fact. Dhyana is by you, of you, and in you. It must go on where you are. It cannot be outside you. So you are in the center of dhyana and that is the Heart.

A location is however given to it with reference to the body. You know that you ARE. Where are you? You are in the body and not out of it. Yet not the whole body. Though you pervade the whole body still you admit of a center where from all your thoughts start and wherein they subside. Even when the limbs are amputated you are there but with defective senses. So a center must be admitted. That is called the Heart. The Heart is not merely the center but the Self. Heart is only another name for the Self.

Doubts arise only when you identify it with something tangible and physical. The scriptures no doubt describe it as the source of 101 nadis, etc.,

In Yoga Vasishtam, Chudala says that kundalini is composed of 101 nadis, thus identifying one with the other.

Heart is no conception, no object for meditation. But it is the seat of meditation. The Self remains all alone. You see the body in the Heart, the world in it. There is nothing separate from it. So all kinds of effort are located there only.

******

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 32:

(Sources for my comments are from Smt.T.R. Kanakammal; Dr. T.M.P. Mahadevan; Sri Sadhu Om;)

adhu nee enRu ammaRaigal Arthidavum
thannai
edhu enRu thAn thernthu irAthu -
adhu nAn
idhu anRu enRu eNNal uran inmaiyinAl
enRum
adhuve tAnAi amarvathAl.

While Scriptures proclaim (roaringly) 'That thou art', without inquiring as to what one is and abiding (as the Self), to contemplate 'That I am', 'not this'
is because of lack of strength. For, one is always That.

For those who are eminently qualified to realize the non dual spirit, hearing even once, and understanding the truth of, the great teaching, 'That thou art' occurs in the Chandogya Upanishad.
It is imparted to S'vetaketu by his father UddAlaka. Here the teaching (which is repeated nine times in the Upanishad) starts with the postulation of Reality which is one without a second. The Reality is referred to as Sat, existence, whose Tamizh equivalent is ULLadu. UddAlaka describes this reality as that by knowing which everything else becomes known, and traces the origin of the universe to it. But this origination is not a real one, it is only apparent. The modification which constitute the plurality of the world are mere names. In sleep, and at death, all these get resolved in the root-reality. But from these states, the individual returns to the empirical tract of finite existence because of the persistence of ignorance -- ignorance about the non dual spirit. He who realizes the truth is liberated from bondage. What is the truth? It is that there is nothing besides the one non dual Consciousness? In that there are no distinctions, even as in "the honey of this flower and that is the honey of that flower", and as in those of another; and as in the ocean there is no dividing line between the waters of one river and those of another. The Consciousness is the subtle essence of all
things; the Self is not somewhere in a remote region, unknown and unrealized. UddAlaka points at his son, S'vetaketu, and proclaims 'That thou art'.

Various illustrations are given in order to make the disciple grasp the nature of the non-dual Consciousness. Each illustration serves only to indicate an aspect of the Truth, and, therefore, should not be pressed too far. The various parts of a tree are held together by its life force. If the life force leaves a certain part, that part withers away. Similarly the non dual Consciousness is the soul of the universe. Although it is not visible, it is from that indivisible Consciousness that the universe has arisen, even as even from the minute seed the great banyan tree grows. Reality is omnipresent, even as salt is present everywhere in saltwater. It is not experiencable through the sense organs and the mind. Yet it can be realized.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 32:

continues....

The dissolved salt cannot be seen. But it can be tasted. Realizing the
Self is not like gaining something that is altogether new. It is just returning to our own nature, going back to our home.

A man from the GAndhAra country was led away blindfolded by a band of robbers. He was left in a lonely and unfamiliar place. At first he did not know what to do. He traveled from village to village asking his way. At last a person that knew the road to GAndhAra guided him. And he returned home safely. Just so is the journey to the Self. On account of the nescience we have been alienated from the Self. Scripture teaches that we are the Self. All that remains for us to do is to inquire into the nature of the Self and realize it.

Sankara declares that the object of the story of UddAlaka and S'vetaketu is to show the oneness of the Self. One may be learned in the sacred lore, but if one has not known the truth about the Self, one lives but in vain. The truth is that the Self is extremely subtle, distinctionless, all pervading, one, undefiled, indivisible, pure consciousness. The Vedanta texts teach this truth either explicitly or implicitly. Following the teaching, says Sri Bhagavan, one should inquire into the nature of the Self and remain as the Self. There is nothing to be done, here, through the mind, speech, and body. It body is only those who lack strength (uran inmaiyinAl) of knowledge that have to practice contemplation in the form "That Brahman am I' and not this body." The contemplating ego identifies itself with Brahman, and this is not the highest truth. It only serves to lift the contemplator from the lower identifications with the physical body, etc., The highest truth is that the Self alone is. The inquiring mind after leading up to this, must itself lapse. Never was, is, or will be anything other than the Self. One is always the Self.

The Mahavakyas of the Vedas like "Tat tvam asi" and "Aham Brahmasmi" that deliberate on the principle of Atman were given for practicing the same during meditation. Sri Bhagavan explains lucidly in this verse, how the true import of these Mahavakyas should be understood, thus encouraging the sadhak to grow firm in strength and gain courage, preparing to plunge within.

Once an aspirant is instructed 'That thou art', the awareness of the seeker -- gathering all energies of the mind and body, banishing all distracting thoughts, directed into a single current and inquiring 'Who am I?' whom the scriptures proclaim verily as 'That'? 'What is the Truth?' - must dive deep within the heart. The content of Truth can only be experienced as a subjective feeling of awareness.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 32:

continues....

The feeling of 'Being', and not reason, is the main requisite, for that is beyond the reach of the mind and is therefore outside the realm of attitude, bhAvanA, being but a thought wave of the mind.

When the mind becomes introverted, sunk in the heart with the ego totally dissolved, what then remains (the residuum) is the form of Brahman, Brahma Swarupa. One abiding as That must remain as Atma Nishta, firmly rooted in It as the moveless essence. This is the true import of the Mahavakya. What is aimed to be taught by that is not meditation with the attitude or bhAvana of 'Brahman am I, the body am I not' but to remain steadfast as 'That' by the strength of constant practice. All the Mahavakyas of the sacred text, far from prescribing any detailed process of meditation, only impress on us the need to be aware of the state of experience of the non dual Atman. One must be eminently qualified to gain the state of Atman. The conditions of competence for Brahma Vidya demand indomitable will and undaunted courage to venture or delve deeper and deeper within, prowess of mind and most importantly, discrimination and dispassion of a high order to ensure success. One who suffers from want of courage and a weak mind alone will meditate with the thought or attitude of "Brahman am I". Hearing of the truth of Mahavakya expounded even once will suffice for dhiras or men of valor or extraordinary bravery. They immediately plunge within and remain firmly established in 'That'.

That the science of Atman will be of no avail for one who has failed to achieve the perfect accomplishment of mental strength, courage and confidence is explained in a verse in Ozhivil Odukkam of KaNNudaiya VaLLalAr:

Fire cannot burn and reduce to
cinder
Green banana stem; Touchstone of
alchemy
Converting metals into gold by
touch
Converts not an earthen pot
For unripe cowards, Atma Vidya is
fruitless.

Vedic verities state the goal which is the experiemce of our being Brahman. Repeating the Mahavakyas will not land one in that state. Standing under a sign post of 'Tiruvannamalai', Tiruvannamlai will not come to him. He must take the effort of traveling, unmindful of the obstacles that may be on the path.

Likewise he should, with the strength of mind and courage, undertake the journey within. Instead, repeating it as a mantra will only ensure the longevity of the ego by the ramification of the mental process it involves. The death of the ego or inhering in Brahman is the goal. All the rest are sadhana to return to our nature, to go back home.

Verse 32 concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 32:

continues....

The feeling of 'Being', and not reason, is the main requisite, for that is beyond the reach of the mind and is therefore outside the realm of attitude, bhAvanA, being but a thought wave of the mind.

When the mind becomes introverted, sunk in the heart with the ego totally dissolved, what then remains (the residuum) is the form of Brahman, Brahma Swarupa. One abiding as That must remain as Atma Nishta, firmly rooted in It as the moveless essence. This is the true import of the Mahavakya. What is aimed to be taught by that is not meditation with the attitude or bhAvana of 'Brahman am I, the body am I not' but to remain steadfast as 'That' by the strength of constant practice. All the Mahavakyas of the sacred text, far from prescribing any detailed process of meditation, only impress on us the need to be aware of the state of experience of the non dual Atman. One must be eminently qualified to gain the state of Atman. The conditions of competence for Brahma Vidya demand indomitable will and undaunted courage to venture or delve deeper and deeper within, prowess of mind and most importantly, discrimination and dispassion of a high order to ensure success. One who suffers from want of courage and a weak mind alone will meditate with the thought or attitude of "Brahman am I". Hearing of the truth of Mahavakya expounded even once will suffice for dhiras or men of valor or extraordinary bravery. They immediately plunge within and remain firmly established in 'That'.

That the science of Atman will be of no avail for one who has failed to achieve the perfect accomplishment of mental strength, courage and confidence is explained in a verse in Ozhivil Odukkam of KaNNudaiya VaLLalAr:

Fire cannot burn and reduce to
cinder
Green banana stem; Touchstone of
alchemy
Converting metals into gold by
touch
Converts not an earthen pot
For unripe cowards, Atma Vidya is
fruitless.

Vedic verities state the goal which is the experiemce of our being Brahman. Repeating the Mahavakyas will not land one in that state. Standing under a sign post of 'Tiruvannamalai', Tiruvannamlai will not come to him. He must take the effort of traveling, unmindful of the obstacles that may be on the path.

Likewise he should, with the strength of mind and courage, undertake the journey within. Instead, repeating it as a mantra will only ensure the longevity of the ego by the ramification of the mental process it involves. The death of the ego or inhering in Brahman is the goal. All the rest are sadhana to return to our nature, to go back home.

Verse 32 concluded.

Ravi said...

R.subramanian,
"Repeating the Mahavakyas will not land one in that state. Standing under a sign post of 'Tiruvannamalai', Tiruvannamlai will not come to him. He must take the effort of traveling, unmindful of the obstacles that may be on the path".
I find the above statement a little dogmatic.
Yes,Repeating the vakyas will not help.Yet Sravana,Manana and Niddhidyasana on these Mahavakyas would certainly help.Truth is not a destination as it is ever present and constant recall of our true Nature will eventually reveal to us the Ever present Truth.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Subramanian. R said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

Sri Bhagavan describes only the Self Inquiry technique in Ullada Narpadu. Here, He says repeating mantras in a sterile manner will be of no help since mind is operating in these types of sadhanas, and Self Inquiry is aimed at killing the mind. However, He gives allowance to this in Verse 36, stating that it is a good support, as a preliminary aid for self inquiry. He tells the same thing, in the penultimate answer of
Who am I? also. The signpost analogy is from Kanakammal.

Again, sravanam, mananam etc., as Sri Bhagavan said in some other place, should be anthra sravanam and anthra mananam, and not oral or mental. Because all that is done in oral and metnal plane are in mano mandalam only.

David, what are your views about Verse 32, 36 and penultimate answer in Who am I?

****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian,
"He gives allowance to this in Verse 36, stating that it is a good support, as a preliminary aid for self inquiry."
Self enquiry cannot be a technique-although one may use it that way-as an exercise.
To hear from a Great one that one's very nature is Brahman,and dwelling on that-is good enough.This is not just a preliminary aid.
It is just like we recall something forgotten when someone reminds us.No enquiry is needed.
Namaskar.

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
An excerpt from 'I am That':
Q: Please tell me which road to self-realisation is the shortest.
M: No way is short or long, but some people are more in earnest and some are less. I can tell you about myself. I was a simple man, but I trusted my Guru. What he told me to do, I did. He told me to concentrate on 'I am' -- I did. He told me that I am beyond all perceivables and conceivables -- I believed. I gave him my heart and soul, my entire attention and the whole of my spare time (I had to work to keep my family alive). As a result of faith and earnest application, I realised my self (swarupa) within three years.
You may choose any way that suits you; your earnestness will determine the rate of progress.
Q: No hint for me?
M: Establish yourself firmly in the awareness of 'I am'. This is the beginning and also the end of all endeavour.

Namaskar.

hema ravi said...

Friends,
In this excerpt from 'I am That' Maharaj lucidly brings out the effectiveness of 'neti' ,'neti' approach:
M: Are the world and the conscious relation with it essential to your being a person?
Q: Even immersed in a cave, I remain a person.
M: It implies a body and a cave. And a world in which they can exist.
Q: Yes. I can see. The world and the consciousness of the world are essential to my existence as a person.
M: This makes the person a part and parcel of the world, or vice versa. The two are one.
Q: Consciousness stands alone. The person and the world appear in consciousness.
M: You said: appear. Could you add: disappear?
Q: No, I cannot. I can only be aware of my and my world's appearance. As a person, I cannot say: 'the world is not'. Without a world I would not be there to say it. Because there is a world, I am there to say: 'there is a world'.
M: Maybe it is the other way round. Because of you, there is a world.
Q: To me such statement appears meaningless.
M: Its meaninglessness may disappear on investigation.
Q: Where do we begin?
M: All I know is that whatever depends, is not real. The real is truly independent. Since the existence of the person depends on the existence of the world and it is circumscribed and defined by the world, it cannot be real.
Q: It cannot be a dream, surely.
M: Even a dream has existence, when it is cognised and enjoyed, or endured. Whatever you think and feel has being. But it may not be what you take it to be. What you think to be a person may be something quite different.
Q: I am what I know myself to be.
M: You cannot possibly say that you are what you think yourself to be! Your ideas about yourself change from day to day and from moment to moment. Your self-image is the most changeful thing you have. It is utterly vulnerable, at the mercy of a passer by. A bereavement, the loss of a job, an insult, and your image of yourself, which you call your person, changes deeply. To know what you are you must first investigate and know what you are not. And to know what you are not you must watch yourself carefully, rejecting all that does not necessarily go with the basic fact: 'I am'. The ideas: I am born at a given place, at a given time, from my parents and now I am so-and-so, living at, married to, father of, employed by, and so on, are not inherent in the sense 'I am'. Our usual attitude is of 'I am this'. Separate consistently and perseveringly the 'I am' from 'this' or 'that', and try to feel what it means to be, just to be, without being 'this' or 'that'. All our habits go against it and the task of fighting them is long and hard sometimes, but clear understanding helps a lot. The clearer you understand that on the level of the mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker you will come to the end of your search and realise your limitless being."

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Siva Temples sung about in Saiva Canons:

(Lesser known temples)

PuL-irukku-vELur - 609 117:
(Presently called Vaitheeswaran Kovil):

PuL means the bird, here Jatayu and Sambhathi of Ramayana. Irukku - Rg Veda. vEL - Muruga. Muruga, the Veda and the two puranic birds have come and prayed to Siva here. This temple is under exclusive management of Dharmapura Adeenam, a Saiva Siddhanta Math.

The temple can be reached from Chidambaram by bus. Siva is called Vaidyanthar and Uma is called Thyal NAyaki (goddess among the women).
The holy waters (tirtham) of the Temple is the tank called Siddhamirtha Tirtham. The temple tree (the Sthala Viruksham) is Neem tree.

The temple is quite famous for prayers to Siva to cure diseases. The devotees who seek the cure, buy, jaggery and salt and dissolve them in the tank. Many take bath also in this tank, which is permitted.

Tiru Jnana Sambandha has sung this temple in 11 verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 19 verses.

Another attraction in the temple is the special shrine of Muruga called Selva Muthu Kumaran. On Tuesdays, many devotees come to pray to this shrine of Muruga. Kartikai festival is celebrated specially for this Muruga shrine. After adorning Muruga with sandal paste, the dried paste is sold next day in small round balls (pepper sized) and sold in packets. This sandal paste balls is taken as medicine by devotees for cure of ailments. Like Pazhani Muruga, the idol itself has got curing properties and sandal paste adorned gets this power due to the same reason. There is also a special shrine for Angaraka (Mars) among the nine planets.

Saint Arunagiri Natha has composed
many songs on this Muruga shrine.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:

Talks No. 647:

......

Maharshi: Sadhanas are needed so long as one has not realized it. They are for putting an end to obstacles. Finally there comes a stage when a person feels helpless notwithstanding the sadhanas. He is unable to pursue he much cherished sadhana also. It is then that God's Power is realized. The Self reveals Itself.

Devotee: If the state is natural, why does it not overcome the unnatural phases and assert itself over the rest?

Maharshi: Is there anything besides that? Does any one see anything besides the Self? One is always aware of the Self. So It is always Itself.

Devotee: It is said, because It shines forth, It is directly perceived. I understand from it that It becomes pratyaksha (directly perceived) because It is
pradeepa (shining). Since it is not realized by us, I take it to be not shining. It is only pradeepa and hence admits of obstacles and goes undedr them. If the Atma becomes prakarshena deepta (very shining), It will shine over the rest. So it seems to be necessary to make it shine more.

Maharshi: How can it be so? The Atma cannot be dull at one moment and blazing at another. It is unchanging and uniform.

Devotee: Bud Chudala says to Sikhidhvaja that she simply helped to trim the wick.

Maharshi: That refers to nididhyasana.

By sravana, Knowledge dawns. That is the flame. By manana, the Knowledge is not allowed to vanish. Just as the flame is protected by a wind-screen, so the other thoughts are not allowed to overwhelm the right knowledge. By nididhyasana, the flame is kept up to burn bright by trimming the wick. Whenever the other thoughts arise, the mind is turned inward to the light of true knowledge. When this becomes natural, it is Samadhi.

The enquiry "Who am I?" is sravana. The ascertainment of the true import of 'I' is manana. The practical application on each occasion in nididhyasana. Being as 'I' is Samadhi.

.....

The yogis say that realization can be had only before the age of thirty, but not the Jnanis. For Jnana does not cease to exist with age.

It is true that in the Yoga Vasishta, Vasishta says to Rama in the Vairagya Prakaranam, 'You have this dispassion in your youth. It is admirable.' But he did not say that Jnana cannot be had in old age. There is nothing to prevent it in old age.

.....

Some say that one must know the 'tat' because the idea of the world constantly arises to deflect the mind. If the Reality behind it is first ascertained it will be found to be Brahman. The 'tvam' is understood later. It is the Jiva. Finally, there will be jiva brahma aikya.

.......

According to the other school, nididhyasana will be thought Aham Brahmasmi, I am Brahman. That is diversion of thought to Brahman. No diversion should be allowed. Know the Self and there is an end of it.

......


*****

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:

Talks No. 328:

.....
.....
Devotee: I am hard worked and find little time to practice concentration. Are there any aids for it? Is control of breath a good aid?

Maharshi: Prana and mind arise fro the same source. The source can be reached by holding the breath or tracing the mind. If you cannot do the latter, the former will no doubt be helpful. Regulation of breath is gained by watching its movements.

If the mind is watched, thoughts cease. Peace results and it is your true nature. King Janaka said: "I have now found the robber (namely the mind) who has been robbing of me (of my 'I' ness). I will instantly kill this thief." The perturbation owing to the thoughts appears to rob the Self of its peace. The perturbation is the mind. When that ceases the mind is said to take flight. The Self remains as the undisturbed substratum.

.......

Devotee: Is not mental japa better than the oral japa?

Maharshi: Oral japa consists of sounds. The sounds arise from thoughts. For one must think before
one expresses the thoughts in words. The thoughts form the mind. Therefore, mental japa is better than oral japa.

Devotee: Should we not contemplate the japa and repeat it orally also?

Maharshi: When the japa becomes mental where is the need for the sounds thereof?

.....

******

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:

Talks No. 424:

In the course of conversation with a learned man, who asked about Purusha and Prakriti, Sri Bhagavan said:

Purusha and Prakriti are only the bifurcation of the one Supreme. They are surmised because the student has the sense of duality deep rooted. The same Gita also says Purushottama lies beyond Purusha and Prakriti.

Devotee: What are para nadi, Sushumna nadi and the Heart?

Maharshi: Sushumna resolves into the Para - Sushumnatu pareleena. Heart is usually understood to be the muscular organ lying on the left of the chest. The Modern Psychological Review speaks of the physical organ on the left and the Heart center on the right. The Bible says that a fool's heart is on the left and a wise man's on the right. Yoga Vasishtam says that there are two hearts; the one is Samvid; and the other blood vessel.

Devotee: What is Anahata?

Maharshi: Anahata is the chakra lying behind the heart. It is not Samvid. Lalita Sahasranama has it, Anahata chakrasthyai namo namah, Salutations to the core situated in the Anahata, and the next mantra is Hrit (in the Heart). Thus it is clear that Anahata is not the same as Hrit.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 33:

ennai aRiyen nAn ennai aRinthen nAn
ennal nahaippukku idanAhum - ennai
thanai vidayam Akka iru thAn uNdo
onRAi
anaivar anubhuti uNmaiyAl.

Both the statements 'I do not know myself' and 'I have known myself' invite ridicule. Why? Because it makes oneself an object of knowledge to oneself (the subject).
Are there two awarensses as 'I'? Of course not. That the Atman is but one is the axiomatic truth of the experience of all Self realized sages. Therefore, Atman is but one and never two.

The thought that 'I know the objects of the external world' leads to the delusion of thinking 'I know not myself'. When the fact is realized that the other objects are known because of the light of one's awareness of one's existence, the knowledge dawns that never was there a time or place when one was not aware of oneself and that alone facilitates the knowing of other things.

The Self is ever the Seer and never the seen. It is even the knower and never the known. The place devoid of both the egos, one who says 'I know' and one who says 'I do not', is the state of Atman. To abide as the Self is to know the Self. Can there be anyone who does not know himself? Knowing oneself and not knowing oneself both are but sheer ignorance. In the statements 'I know myself' and 'I know not myself', both in ignorance and knowledge, there must be one 'I'. If there are two it becomes
meaningless and becomes a subject for laughter. Sri Bhagavan explains the same thing in Talks No. 575.

Sri Bhagavan also says in Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, verse 2: When
I sought within who the seer is, I watched what survived the disappearance of the seer. No thought arose to say 'I saw'. How then would the thought 'I did not see' arise?" The Atman is not a substance to be seen and known.

Sri Sadhu Om mentions here the two verses of Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verses 546 and 548:

Some declare, 'Know yourself!' Does anyone exist who does not know himself? Even knowing oneself is ignorance, as is not knowing oneself. Isn't so? Tell me! (546)

Only so long as a person thinks that he is aware of the non Self will the delusion, 'Oh, I do not know my nature!' exist. If this thought (that he is aware of the non-Self) is removed through the knowledge that one's nature is eternally realized, that lamentation will cease, becoming essentially false. (548)

(Tr. David Godman)

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Ulladu Narpadu - verse 33:

continues.....

What is the import of saying 'One should know the Atman'? This is the procedure followed while teaching Vedantic truth to novices and the truth of non self as per the empirical usage, and it may not be true as per the ultimate reference of Knowledge. Advaitic Vedanta teaches on the basis of the experience of Jnanis. The sadhakas intent on and fit for the past of Jnana are still in the plane of duality with dual attitudes in the initial stages and are therefore taught in the same bhAvA. Advaita is a state to be experienced and lived in and cannot be taught and learnt. Instructions with dual bhAvA, though they may appear contradictory to advaitic truth, have their usefulness. They gradually wean one from the long embedded wrong convictions that one is the body and the world and the confusions one suffers from are real and lift one up to a higher level of understanding and grasping the Absolute Truth. In due course, at the proper time, when one's competence matured, one is made aware of the truth.

Once Muruganar was mentioning to Sri Bhagavan an old Tamizh verse that he came across describing what is it like for one who wants to know the Atman. The gist of the verse is as follows:

The one who wants to know the Atman is like one who, standing on the bank of river Ganga that is in full spate, cries that his throat is parched for want of water and that he need water! Right in front of him courses the river to which he could always go down to drink water without having to walk miles for it. How foolish it is then on his part to say that he is thirsty?

A 'wiser' fellow than this is all set to dig a well on the banks of Ganga to quench his thirst. Another fellow, 'wiser still' than the other two, standing in the neck deep water in Ganga laments that none would quench his thirst by giving him water. When Muruganar said that these three corresponded to the three states of the different sadhakas, Sri Bhagavan, who was reclining on the couch, sat up straight and said in a vibrant voice, 'Oh! A more pertinent thing has been left unsaid. The author has forgotten to say river Ganga herself is thirsty!' and laughed. Sri Bhagavan explained, 'There was never a time when the Self is not known or unrealized for one is one, never two and identical with the Self. Remaining forever as the Self and yet wanting to know the Self, is as ridiculous as Ganga, who quenches the thirst of all, saying she herself is thirsty!'.

Both the statements 'I know' and 'I do not know' are only from the ego.
When the ego is dissolved, there is only experience.

KaNdavan evan enak karuthinuL nAdak
kaNdavan inRida ninRathu kaNdEn
KaNdanan enRida karuthezhavillai
KaNdilan enRida karuthezhumARen...

- Sri Arunachala Ashtakam,
Verse 2.

Verse 33 concluded.

(Sources: as mentioned in previous verses.)

*****

David Godman said...

Subranmanian

I have had a heavy cold for the last few days, so I don't have the energy to write much.

However, in answer to your question about verses 32 and 36 of Ulladu Narpadu,I think these verses from Guru Vachaka Kovai complement them very well:

708 Until the objects perceived are annihilated in the agent [of perception], and until you know clearly, without a shadow of doubt, the solid truth of the Self, what is the use of repeatedly exclaiming verbally, ‘I am God! I am God!’ to no good purpose?

709 Will miseries come to an end by loudly repeating ‘I am Brahman’ many, many times? They will only go when you yourself abide as That [Brahman]. Therefore, instead of wandering around proclaiming ‘I am Brahman’, you yourself should rest firmly as Brahman.

710 Deep-rooted diseases will not be even slightly eliminated by repeating the name of the medicine, but only by consuming it. Likewise, the fetter of samsara will not be sundered solely by doing japa of mahavakyas such as Sivoham [‘I am Siva’] that expound the ultimate union.

***

This was Bhagavan's advice to almost everyone who asked a question on this topic, the one exception being Annamalai Swami, who was encouraged to do a sadhana that revolved around affirmation ('I am Brahman') and negation: 'I am not the body,' and so on. I have no idea why Bhagavan's advice to Annamalai Swami was so different from his usual advice in this matter.

Bhagavan also supported Annamalai Swami when he decided to take a vow of mauna and to restrict his diet very severely - two aids to practice that he generally discouraged others from doing.

Since everyone else was discouraged from following these sadhanas and practices, I think it is safe to say that one should follow the upadesa revealed in verses 32 and 36 of Ulladu Narpadu and not assume that repeated affirmations of mahavakyas will lead to a realisation of the Self.

Apropos your query about the penultimate answer in 'Who am I?', it is an interesting and high-level definition of enquiry. What Bhagavan seems to be saying there is that true enquiry is only taking place when the 'I'-thought has been detached from the objects it usually associates with and is resting in the Self, having subsided there.

By contrasting this with meditation that focuses on the objects of one's attention, he is also saying that abidance in the subject 'I' is enquiry, whereas focussing on an object of thought or perception is more properly classed as 'meditation'.

Ravi said...

David/R.Subramanian/Friends,
"I think it is safe to say that one should follow the upadesa revealed in verses 32 and 36 of Ulladu Narpadu and not assume that repeated affirmations of mahavakyas will lead to a realisation of the Self."

The Mahavakyas are not to be used as Affirmations at all.They need to be heard from a Great one and dwelt upon with faith and conviction.This is sufficient and complete as a Sadhana,depending on the ripeness of the sadhaka.
Ultimately it is the Earnestness and not the 'method' that matters.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Bondage is of the mind, and freedom is also of the mind. A man is free if he constantly
thinks: 'I am a free soul. How can I be bound, whether I live in the world or in the forest? I
am a child of God, the King of Kings. Who can bind me?' If bitten by a snake, a man may
get rid of its venom by saying emphatically, 'There is no poison in me.' In the same way, by
repeating with grit and determination, 'I am not bound, I am free', one really becomes so-one
really becomes free."

Namaskar.

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