The previous 'Open Thread' appear to be malfunctioning by posting each comment twice. I am starting a new one to see if that solves the problem.
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I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.
If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.
5,000 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 3201 – 3400 of 5000 Newer› Newest»Siva Temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
(Lesser known temples)
Tiru ChAikkAdu (Chayavanam) 609 105:
This is on the bus route from Chidambaram, Sirkazhi and PoompuhAr, in North Arcot District of Tamizh Nadu. This is the temple prayed to by Upamanyu, the Sage, who comes in Upamanyu Bhakta VilAsam, the Sanskrit rendering of Periya Puranam.
Siva is called ChAyavaneswarar and Uma is called Kuyilinum menmozhi ammai, the Mother whose words are sweeter than cooing of Cuckoo. The holy waters, tirtham of the temple is Kaveri. There is also a temple tank called IrAvatha Tirtham. There is a puranic story that Indra wanted to take this temple to heavens and he came on his
elephant, IrAvatham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is PainchAi tree (?).
This is the place where IyaRpahai NayanAr, one of the 63 Saiva Saints got liberation. Sundaramurti sings in his Tiru Thondathohai - Illaiye ennAtha iyaRpahaikkum adiyEn....
There is also a shrine for Sambadhi, the Ramayana bird. There
are shrines for IyaRpahai NAyanAr
and also for Murugan who appears with a bow and arrow.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in his 22 verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in his 30 verses in Tevaram.
*****
Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga
Vasishtam:
Talks No. 442:
......
Sri Bhagavan: A seed is the product of the tree which must have existed once in order that it may be reproduced. So the world also must have been there some time. The answer is 'No!' There must have been several incarnations to gather the impressions which are re-manifested in the present form. I must have existed before as I do now. The straight way to find answer will be to see if the world is there. Admitting the existence of the world, I must admit a seer
who is no other than myself. Let me find myself so that I may know the relation between the world and the seer. When I seek the Self and abide as the Self there is no world to be seen. What is the Reality then? The seer only and certainly not the world.
Such being the truth, the man continues to argue on the basis of the reality of the world. Whoever asked him to accept a brief for the world?
Yoga Vasishtam clearly defines Liberation as the abandonment of the false and remaining as Being.
****
Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:
Talks No. 495:
.....
Devotee: But we are advised not to
fall into sleep during meditation.
Maharshi: That is the stupor you must guard against. That sleep which alternates with waking is not true sleep. That waking which alternates with the sleep is not true waking. Are you now awake? You are not. You are required to wake up to your real state. You should not fall into false sleep not keep falsely awake. Hence:
Laya sambodhayeccittam vishiptam
samyet punah..
What does it mean? It means that you should not fall into any one of the three states but remain amidst them in your true unsullied nature.
Devotee: The states are of our mind only.
Maharshi: Whose mind? Hold it and see.
Devotee: The mind cannot be held. It is that which creates all these. It is known only by its effects and not in its true nature.
Maharshi: Quite so. You see the colors of the spectrum. Together they form the white light. But seven colors are seen through the prism. Similarly, the one Self resolves itself into so many phases, the mind, world, body, etc., The Self is seen as the mind, the body or the world. That is to say, it becomes whatever you perceive it to be.
Devotee: These are difficult to follow in practice. I will hold on to God and surrender.
Maharshi: That is the best.
Devotee: How can I do my duties without attachment? There is my wife, there are my children. I must do my duty towards them. Affection is necessary. Am I right?
Maharshi: How do you do your work
in college?
Devotee: (laughing) For wages.
Maharshi: Not because you are attached, simply as doing your duty.
Devotte: But my pupils expect me to love them.
Maharshi: Detachment in the interior and attachment in appearance, says Yoga Vasishtam.
*****
Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:
Talks No. 513:
.......
Devotee: But Yoga Vasishtam says that the chitta (mind) of a Jivanmukta is achala.
Maharshi: So it is. Achala Chitta (unchanging mind) is the same as Suddha Manas (pure mind). The Jnani's mind is said to be Suddha Manas. The Yoga Vasishtam also says that Brahman is no other than the Jnani's mind. So Brahman is Suddha Manas only.
Devotee: Will the description of Brahman as Sat Chit Ananda suit this Suddha Manas? For this too will be destroyed in the final emancipation.
Maharshi: If Suddha Manas is admitted, the Bliss (Ananda) experienced by the Jnani must also be admitted to be reflected. This reflection must finally merge into the Original. Therefore the jivanmukta state is compared to the reflection of a spotless mirror in another similar mirror. What will be found in such a reflection? Pure Akasa (ether). Similarly, the Jnani's reflected Bliss (Ananda) represents only the true Bliss.
These are all only words. It is enough that a person becomes antarmukhi (inward bent). The Sastras are not needed for an inward turned mind. They are meant for the rest.
*****
Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:
Talks No. 517:
There was some reference to two slokas in Yoga Vasishtam where spiritism in mleccha desa is mentioned. Mr. McIver said that black magic is more prevalent in the West than is ordinarily known to the observer. The writer then remembered how Mr. Paul Brunton had once said that he actually feared a woman for her association with black magic.
Sri Bhagavan asked if the gentleman had read Devi Kalottaram. He then said that abhichara prayoga (black magic) is condemned there. He also added that by such practices one compasses one's own ruin. Avidya (ignorance) is itself bad and makes one commit suicide. Why should black magic be also added to it?
Devotee: What is the pratikriya (remedy) open to the victim of black magic?
Maharshi: Devotion (bhakti) to God.
Devotee: Non resistance seems to be the only remedy for all kinds of evil such as slander.
Maharshi: Quite so. If one abuses another or injures him the remedy does not lie in retort or resistance. Simply keep quiet. This
quiet will bring peace to the injured but make the offender restless until he is driven to admit his error to the injured party.
This black magic is said to have been used even against the greatest saints in India since time immemorial. The tapasvins of Daruka forest used it against Siva Himself.
*****
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Reassurance to the devotees & Parable of the tigress
Sri Ramakrishna spoke reassuringly to the devotees.
MASTER (to M.): "Some think: 'Oh, I am a bound soul. I shall never acquire knowledge
and devotion.' But if one receives the guru's grace, one has nothing to fear. Once a tigress
attacked a flock of goats. As she sprang on her prey, she gave birth to a cub and died. The
cub grew up in the company of the goats. The goats ate grass and the cub followed their
example. They bleated; the cub bleated too. Gradually it grew to be a big tiger. One day
another tiger attacked the same flock. It was amazed to see the grass-eating tiger. Running
after it, the wild tiger at last seized it, whereupon the grass-eating tiger began to bleat. The
wild tiger dragged it to the water and said: 'Look at your face in the water. It is just like
mine. Here is a little meat. Eat it.' Saying this, it thrust some meat into its mouth. But the
grass-eating tiger would not swallow it and began to bleat again. Gradually, however, it got
the taste for blood and came to relish the meat. Then the wild tiger said: 'Now you see there
is no difference between you and me. Come along and follow me into the forest.'
"So there can be no fear if the guru's grace descends on one. He will let you know who you
are and what your real nature is."
"If the devotee practises spiritual discipline a little, the guru explains everything to him.
Then the disciple understands for himself what is real and what is unreal. God alone is real,
and the world is illusory."
Namaskar.
Dear David,
Thank you for your clarification in the matter. I have read somewhere
in your books that Sri Bhagavan had advised to chant (mentally) Siva, Siva to Muruganar and also to an unknown Harijan.
I have not seen Sri Sadhu Om or Micahel James. But I have seen Smt. Kanakammal on two occasions, once when she attended Nochur Venkataraman's discourses on Ulladu Narpadu, in 2009 and again on the day of her liberation in Samadhi Hall on 01.01.2010. I always remain faithful to Kanakammal's commentary because I have seen Sri Bhagavan's affirmation of His Presence in the Samadhi Hall with liberation of Kanakammal and she has taken lessons from Muruganar. Her commentary is a true interpretation of Sri Bhagavan's words, is my firm view. Hers is simple and is not pedantic.
Thank you once again. How is, incidentally, your cold? I am sure you are better.
Subramanian. R
Ravi
I agree the mahavakyas may work if a qualified Guru says them. If such a realised Guru says 'You are Brahman', then I believe there is a power in those words that occasionally precipitates a direct experience of that state in the person who is hearing the phrase. I spoke about this both with Nisargadatta Maharaj and Papaji, and they both agreed that this was possible. What Bhagavan is criticising is mindless repetition of the phrase as a sadhana.
Subramanian
Thanks for the health enquiry. I am still house-bound, but I am going out this afternoon to meet an Israeli professor who is researching Jews who came to India and became Hindus. He is specifically interested in S. S. Cohen, and I am hoping he may have some new information on him. I expect we will also end up talking about other Jews such as Maurice Frydman and Lucia Osborne.
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 34:
(Sources: Sri Sadhu Om; Smt. Kanakammal; Dr. T.M.P Mahadevan.)
enRum evarkkum iyalbAi uLa poruLai
onRum uLathuL uNarnthu nilai -
ninRidAthu
uNdu inRu uru aru enRu onRu iraNdu
anRu enRe
saNadai idal mAyaich chazhakku.
Instead of abiding in the Heart with an inward turned and subsiding mind (onRum uLathuL - in antarmukha), knowing by experience and gaining perfect identity with that Reality that shines always in the Heart as one's own true nature, but to say, 'That exists; no, It exists not; It is with form; no but without form; It is one; no, but, two; neither one nor two' and to dispute and quarrel thus is delusion of nescience born of maya. Shun it.
All verbal discussions about the Self are meaningless. The Self cannot be categorized. It is neither a subject nor a predicate. It neither is nor has anything. We cannot say, 'It is'; because it does not exist as an entity may be said to exist. To say that It is as absurd as to say that 'Virtue is not square.' 'Form' or 'no Form', again are predicates which can be applied only to finite things. We may say, 'Things in space have no form; space itself has no form.' As for the category of number, it is entirely out of place. How can the Self be numbered? To say that it is 'one', 'two' or neither is to fall into the trap set by the finite intellect, under the influence of ignorance.
Instead of arguing about the Self and making verbal statements about It, let us realize be the Self - or to use a better expression - let us realize that we are the Self. Abidance in the Self is moksha. This is realized in the Silence of the Heart, which is the symbol of the ultimate Reality. When the delusion born of ignorance has been dispelled, there is no room for dispute. The Jnani smiles at the debates of the intellectuals. He does not take part in these debates, because he is not a partisan. Advaita is not a doctrine of the partisan. It is the highest experience, and not a theory. Its message - if message it may be called - is "Cease arguing; Be."
continued....
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 34:
continues....
Once Sri Bhagavan, shouted at Kunju Swami, (he had unknowingly brought in some visitors, whose ulterior motive was to get the signature of Sri Bhagavan for some mission!) in Malayalam for about 20 minutes. The visitors on hearing Sri Bhagavan's harsh words quietly slipped away. Then Sri Bhagavan told Kunju Swami:
"Do you think Maya will come only as a good looking woman? Maya can come in any form. See, without knowing their purpose, you have brought them in, just because they
had seen you on the way to the Hall. This is also maya vilasam. Beware of Maya."
All inter faith debates are only the sport of Maya. Once a person with all self pride brought a book written by him, to Chandrasekhara Bharati of Sringeri Math, where he had condemned the contents of another book titled 'Advaita Kandanam' - a retort on Advaita.
Chandrasekhara Bharati shouted at him saying, 'someone is writing advaita kandanam and you are writing a kandanam on that kandanam. Is it all that you have learnt from me and advaita? Don't you think that you should abide in the Self without words and thoughts as given by me in my upadesa? Throw your book in Tunghabadra and remain silent.'
Sri Bhagavan many times used to say - Vandha vEliayai pAr' - Do the work for which you have come. To do other things which are not the purpose of our aim and goal is only Maya vilasam.
Exhausting all the subtle intricacies of the mind to engage in wordy battles regarding the nature of the Absolute instead of abiding as one's Self that universally and eternally shines in the hearts of all, will make the ego, by pampering it, grow to Frankenstein proportions, rendering it unfit as an aid to the practice of enquiry to gain wisdom. All religious tenets are but the form of strong mental concepts, passionately adhered or clung to by the zealous adherents and upholders of their respective religions. Adviata, not confirming or confining itself to the norms of any religion, is not a religion as such but remains as the ultimate experience of all religions.
Sri Bhagavan was not taking part in any such discussions about Advaita or Dwaita or Visishtadvaita. He would only say: 'What is the main purpose of all these faiths? To attain Atma Sakshatkaram. Attain it first and then see what faith is correct and what faith is not correct.'
Sri Sankara says in one place in Viveka Chudamani: Dhooshnim bhava... Be silent. Silence in thoughts, speech and action is the ultimate experience.
continued....
Friends,
An excerpt from Talk 80 dated 3rd October 1935,in Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
M.: Everyone is aware of the eternal Self. He sees so many dying but
still believes himself eternal. Because it is the Truth. Unwillingly the
natural Truth asserts itself. The man is deluded by the intermingling of
the conscious Self with the insentient body. This delusion must end.
D.: How will it end?
M.: That which is born must end. The delusion is only concomitant
with the ego. It rises up and sinks. But the Reality never rises nor
sinks. It remains Eternal. The master who has realised says so; the
disciple hears, thinks over the words and realises the Self. There
are two ways of putting it.
The ever-present Self needs no efforts to be realised, Realisation is
already there. Illusion alone is to be removed. Some say the word
from the mouth of the Master removes it instantaneously. Others
say that meditation, etc., are necessary for realisation. Both are
right; only the standpoints differ."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the emphasis is on the 'Realized Guru',the question arises-How does one go about finding a Guru?There is the further confusion of the 'Living Guru'!It is said that one has to hear the Truth from a 'Living Guru'!If Guru is someone who dies like the rest,how his words will have the potency,the vibrancy that can awaken the Disciple?Just who is this Guru?
Further does it mean that if the 'Disciple' hears the word from The Guru,he will realize the Truth.Just what is Required?
This can be answered only if we recognize the Guru not as a phenomenon who appears and disappears in time but as The Ever Present Reality who is present in the Heart of every living being.The words of Truth that have been expounded are forever captured in timeless eternity in the Holy Books,The Bhagavata as it is called.The Disciple is anyone who takes to these words with devotion and faith,and makes the Truth a part and parcel of himself.
It is open to anyone to be a disciple with a Living faith and devotion.If with this living faith and devotion,he takes to any sadhana he is bound to succeed.Instead of Hankering for a Living Guru(Is there a Dead Guru!)!one has to be Living Disciple through faith and devotion and Realization is assured.
Namaskar.
Sri Ramana Stuti Panchakam:
Sri Ramana Stuti Panchakam of Satyamangalam Venkataramana Iyer, was composed by Iyer, after his darshan of Sri Bhagavan sometime in the years 1910-11. This was even earlier than Sri Bhagavan's own Sri Arunachala Stuti Panchakam. Iyer did not come back again to Sri Bhagavan in the next 50 years or so. However considering the importance of the five poems of Iyer, this is chanted on every Saturday evenings during Tamizh parayana.
A reference about Iyer's visit to Sri Bhagavan, has been in Day by Day of Devaraja Mudaliar.
The third song PonnoLir Pathu, Decad on the Golden Effulgence is quite pleasing and heart melting.
1. PonnoLir vadivinAne poorana
vadhanathAne
Thannarum swAnubhti dharaiyelam
maNakka ezhai
Unnarum pugzhai kettiv vulahelam
thedi vandhen
EnnaruL iRaiye Jnana Ramanane
jyotik kunRe.
Of gold-bright form, full-blown lotus-faced one! Personification
of rare realization (SAanubhuti),
spreading fragrance all over the earth! Having heard of your fame, poor as I am, I looked for you throughout the world and reached you here, my gracious Lord! Wise Ramana! Hill of Light.
5. MaNiyenap pugazhvathallan
maRRonRum aRiyA ezhai
ANimaiyin ninRu yAnum alaRuvathu
aRinthidAyo
ThaNiyenathu ahzp pei inRu
sadukkena enai vittu odath
ThuNiyathai Jnana VALal Sundra
Ramana PoRRi.
Poor me! I know how to praise you - as the pupil of my eye! I know nothing else. Can you be unaware, how by your side, I cry in anguish? Put down the spectre of my ego and
strike it with your sword of knowledge, so that it leave me here and now! Hail Sundara Ramana!
***
Siva Temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru ChengAttangudi - 609 704.
This temple can be reached from Kumbakonam by bus. Siva is called
Ganaptheeswarar and Uma is called Tirukuzhal Nayaki Ammai, the one who has got lustrous locks of hair.
The holy waters (tirtham) is Surya Tirtham, a tank. The temple tree (Sthaala Viruksham) is Aathi Tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar mentions about this temple in 21 verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 10 verses.
There is a puranic story that Ganapati after killing Gajamuksura came to this temple for praying to Siva for peace. Since the demon's
blood was seen in the ground as if a red sea or forest, the place is called ChengAttangudi, the temple in red forest.
SiruthoNdar, the saint of Periya Puranam is also connected with this place. He was living here and when Siva, in the guise of a bairagi (ferocious sannyasi) asked for flesh of a young boy cooked as for his food, SiruthoNdar offered his own son SeerAlan and Siva appeared with Uma and Skanda and conferred liberation for SiruthoNdar, his wife and his son, SeerAlan. The bairagi is called Uttarapadi. There is a shrine for Uttarapadi, in the town but away from the main temple. There is a Saiva Math also named after SiruthoNdar. Inside the temple, there are metal icons for SiruthoNdar, his wife and his young SeerAlan.
****
Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga
Vasishtam:
Talks No. 519:
Maharshi: The mahavakyas and their interpretation lead to interminable discussions and keep the minds of the seekers engaged externally. To turn the mind inward, the man must directly settle down in the 'I'. Then there is an end of external activities and perfect Peace prevails.
Later, a passage from the Yoga Vasishtam was read out before Sri Bhagavan, indicating initiation by look and and initiation by touch.
Sri Bhagavan observed: Dakshinamurti observed silence when the disciples approached Him. That is the highest form of initiation. It includes the other forms. There must be subject-object relationship established in the other dikshas. First the subject must emanate and then the object. Unless these two are there, how is the one to look at the other? Mouna diksha is the most perfect. It comprises looking, touching, and teaching. It will purify the individual in every way and establish him in the Reality.
****
Dear friends, David,
There are so many books are sprouting about Ramana Maharshi and his teachings and more so, many interpretations about his teachings. I wondered, that, it is not going to be too late, before, Ramana Maharshi's teachings become like those of Buddha's.
Many schools came over after Buddha and each person writing their own interpretations about what Buddha could possibly have said and it has got so diluted into so many books and schools, over the time by just re-interpreting over and over again, of what the previous person had to say so!
I wonder where these are going to go further.
Having read quite a bit about Ramana Maharshi and his teachings, suddenly, a question flashes, as to, why should I realise my self, after all?
xyz
Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga
Vasishtam:
Talks No. 597:
A Swiss lady, Mrs. J.C.S. Hick-Riddingh, asked 'Does Self Realization imply occult powers also?'
Maharshi: The Self is the most intimate and eternal Being whereas the Siddhis are foreign. The one requires effort to acquire and the other does not. The powers are sought by the mind which must be kept alert whereas the Self is realized when the mind is destroyed. The powers manifest only when there is the ego. The ego makes you aware of others and in its absence there are no others to be seen. The Self is beyond the ego and is realized after the ego is eliminated. The elimination of the ego makes one unaware of others. How can the question of others arise and where is the use of occult powers for a Self Realized Being?
Self Realization may be accompanied by siddhis or it may not be. If the person had sought such powers before Realization, he may get the powers after Realization. There are others who had not sought such powers and had attempted only Self Realization. They do not manifest such powers. These powers may also be sought and gained even after Self Realization. But then they are used for a definite purpose, i.e. the benefit of others as in the
case of Chudala (in Yoga Vasishtam).
Sikhidvaja was a pious king. His spouse was Chudala, the queen. They received instructions from a sage. The king, being busy with the administration of his kingdom, could not put the instructions into practice. Whereas Chudala put them into practice and gained Self Realization. Consequently she appeared more charming than before. The king was struck by her growing charm and asked her about it. She said that all charm was due to the
Self and he was only noticing the charm of Self Realization in her. He said that she was silly. There were great tapasvins who could not realize the Self even after long periods of tapas and what about a silly woman who was all along in the family and in the worldly life? However, Chudala was not offended because she was firm in the Self and only wished that her husband should realize the Self and be happy.
continued....
Sri Bhagavan referring to Yoga Vasishtam:
Talks No. 597 continues...
She then thought that unless she could prove her worth by manifesting some extraordinary powers he could not be convinced and she began to seek occult powers and gained them. But she did not betray them just then. Constant association with her made the king dispassionate. He began to dislike the worldly life and desired to retire into the forest for performing tapsya. So he told his wife that he wanted to leave the world for the forest. She was delighted at the development, but she pretended to be very much concerned with his unkind decision. He hesitated out of consideration for her. In the meantime, his dispassion gained force and he decided to leave home even without her consent.
When the queen was sleeping one night, he suddenly left the palace by stealth and retired into the forest. He was seeking some solitary spot where he could perform his tapas. When the queen woke up she did not find her husband and immediately found out by her occult powers what had really happened. She rejoiced in her husband's determination. She called the ministers and said that the king had gone on some important business and that the administration should be carried on as efficiently as ever. She herself administered state in the absence of the king.
Eighteen years passed. She then knew that the king was fit for
Self Realization. So she appeared to him disguised as Kumbha and so on. He then realized the Self and returned to rule the kingdom with the queen.
The point is that occult powers are sought and gained for the benefit of others by Self Realized persons also. But the sages are not deluded by the possession of such powers.
Devotee: Does the Sage use occult powers for making others realize the Self or is mere fact of his Self Realization enough for it?
Maharshi: The force of Self Realization is far more powerful than the use of occult powers.
......
......
concluded.
Friends,
ThAyumAnavar's parAparakkaNNI,verses 304 through 306:
ஓருரையால் வாய்க்குமுண்மைக் கோரனந்த நூல்கோடிப்
பேருரையாற் பேசில்என்ன பேறாம் பராபரமே.304.
For the Truth that can
By a single word be attained,
Why expound numerous books
And countless commentaries?
Oh Para Param!
சொல்லுஞ் சமயநெறிச் சுற்றுக்கு ளேசுழலும்
அல்லல் ஒழிவதென்றைக் கையா பராபரமே.305.
When am I to be free
From the painful whirl of religion
That encircleth me, my Lord?
Pray, speak
Oh Para Param!
பிடித்ததையே தாபிக்கும் பேராணவத்தை
அடித்துத் துரத்தவல்லார் ஆர்காண் பராபரமே.306
Who is it that can drive away
The egoity that trieth to establish
What it holdeth as true?
Oh Para Param!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Excerpts From The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
1.A man opened a book belonging to a sadhu. He saw the word 'Rama' written on every page.
There was nothing else.
"If a man loves God, even the slightest thing kindles spiritual feeling in him. Then,
repeating the name of Rama but once, he gets the fruit of ten million sandhyas. At the sight
of a cloud the peacock's emotion is awakened: he dances, spreading his. tail. Radha had the
same experience. Just the sight of a cloud recalled Krishna to her mind.
2."One should learn the essence of the scriptures from the guru and then practise sadhana. If
one rightly follows spiritual discipline, then one directly sees God. The discipline is said to
be rightly followed only when one plunges in. What will a man gain by merely reasoning
about the words of the scriptures? Ah, the fools! They reason themselves to death over
information about the path. They never take the plunge. What a pity!"
3."God is both inside and outside. It is He who dwells inside us. Therefore the Vedas say,
'Tattvamasi-That thou art.' God is also outside us. He appears manifold through maya; but
in reality He alone exists. Therefore before describing the various names and forms of God,
one should say, 'Om Tat Sat.'
Namaskar.
Anonymous xyz
There is a core of teaching material on Bhagavan's teachings that was written by Bhagavan himself or checked by him during his lifetime. This should be the primary source when one attempts to decide what his teachings actually are.
So long as these teachings remain available, it will always be possible to determine what Bhagavan himself taught, and what is a later accretion from commentators who have not consulted them, or taken the trouble to understand what they really mean.
Asking 'Why should I bother to realise the Self?' for me is the same as asking 'Why should I be happy when I am content with my current state of suffering?'
Sri Bhagavan about Caste Rules:
Talks No. 238:
........
........
Devotee: Is the discovery of the Self dependent on the observance of caste rules? Or should should we flout them?
Maharshi: Not in the beginning. Observe them to start with. Caste rules serve as a check on the vagaries of the mind. It is thus purified.
......
......
Talks No. 433:
.......
.......
The Professor (Mr. Thomas, Professor of Sanskrit, University of Oxford) was shown Mr. Grant Duff's speech in the Philosophical
Conference held in Paris. Later, the book 'Dharma" by Dr. G.H. Mees was placed in his hands. On seeing the book, the Professor asked what Sri Bhagavan thought of castes.
Maharshi: The castes relate to bodies and not to the Self. The Self is Bliss. To realize the Bliss, one realizes the Self. No need to worry oneself about caste, etc.,
Devotee: The Ahamkar is also called the Self.
Maharshi: Ahamkar is limited, whereas the Self is beyond it.
......
......
*****
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 34:
continues.....
The cause of our awareness of all
objective phenomena is the true content - subjective awareness as 'I'. The experience of this feeling
of awareness is universally accepted by all. No one denies one's own existence and none doubts or suspects one's 'being' either. The subjective awareness of one's own being is the most intimate, natural and logical experience of all.
The Atman, which shines as the subjective awareness 'I', defies compartmentalization conceptually as this or that. Even the Vedas and Upanishads , while attempting to explain it, say it is beyond the reach of mind and speech, being indescribable and unthinkable , and stop at that. All vociferous discussions on religions are attempts at objectifying an un-
objectifiable Vastu. He is an Ajnani, an ignorant one, who does not seek with an interiorized mind and know by experience the Brahman that forever shines as his own Self. Such an ajnani alone indulges
in verbal wrangles about the Atman.
Diverse are the religions and dogmas. Theism believes in the Self or God. Atheism denies God's very existence. The path of worship with form (Saguna Upasana) affirms God with form. The path of formless worship (Nirguna Upasana) denies form. Dwaita believes in two. The truth of Advaita is one. Visishtadvaita denies it. Here the mention of the term 'Advaita' is not based on religion but is in terms of truth experienced at the highest level in the absolute silence of the Heart. Thus it is the culmination of all doctrines and the crown of all mystic and spiritual experiences and as such it is opposed to none. Sri Bhagavan in a single sentence evens out all the religious differences. Realization renders all intellectual loads as mere flotsam and jetsam fit to be jettisoned. Learning of Sastras itself is a Vasana. Since all the philosophies have evolved out of the one simple fact of experience of Truth, wisdom lies in practicing Vichara, seeking realization.
continued.....
Dear David,
Thank you for your clarification. I would be much obliged if you could you please also mention what are those works, that are directly checked by Bhagavan himself? I desire to limit myself in studying those books alone considering my own journey.
Your observation seemed very correct that my current state of suffering seems to give me 'contentment' over some happiness that is illusive and elusive. But, this seems a fact in my experiential living.
I am prompted to ask, what is happiness really? or what is contentment? That is aimed at?
xyz
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 34:
continues....
For a jivanmukta all religions are the same, for he sees no difference in them. A verse from Ozhivil Odukkam of KaNNudaiya VaLLalar explains how he stands aloof, beyond all religions.
kAmadhi vittu karame kalamAhip
Bhoomithe kai kAlai porthuRangi -
nAmaguNam
SAthi karumam enum vAdhanayiRRak
kaRRArku
Ethu samayam enalAm.
(Avasthai thanmai, 25)
What caste and religion will you
Ascribe to Jnanis, who, totally
eschew
Vices deadly, of desire, hatred,
greed,
Eat from houses begged food
From the begging bowls of of hands
cupped,
With Mother Earth as bed blessed,
To cover the body mere limbs,
Concern and impact ever none
Of caste, creed, quality or name
Confining conduct to caste's
domain,
Care they not for religion or its
reign.
Whatever be the religion one follows, without undue importance to its doctrines and disciplines prescribed by it, one can gain the ultimate experience of truth is Sri Bhagavan's Upadesa. Excessive and undue attachment to one's religion proves often a hindrance and an obstacle to liberation. It is also a form of Vasana, a predilection that gets reinforced by arguments on its tenets. Among the three types of vasanas, namely, latent tendencies born of attachments to the body, attachments to the world, and attachments to the Sastras or principles of religion or philosophical treatises, the last one is the strongest. The ego never gets intimidated but remains ever ready for a verbal combat. The ego is the root and home of all types of vasanas.
kaRRa aRivAl unai nAn kaNdavan pol
koothu Adil
kuRRam enRu en nenje kodhikkum
parAparame!
(ParAparak kaNNi 37, Tayumanavar)
If by learning, I dance as if I
have seen you,
Even my heart will boil saying,
it is wrong!
All verbal wrangles are fruitless serving no purpose and no end. With the grace of the Guru, and by the practice of diving deep with an interiorized mind, the Self must be realized in the silence of the heart, instead of wasting precious time in useless pursuits subjecting oneself to the veiling of the reality by the powerful Maya.
Verse 34 concluded.
****
Anonymous
My own views on this are here:
http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.in/2008/05/authenticity-of-bhagavans-writings-and.html
Anonymous/Friends,
Anonymous has raised an interesting topic-the Authenticity of the Teachings of Sri Bhagavan.
What Sri Bhagavan wrote or Uttered is only one aspect-What one makes of that is more important.
There are certain themes that are repeated over and over again:
1.Self enquiry focusses on the subject and meditation focusses on the Object-It is further said that while Self enquiry leads to Realization,Meditation is only a preliminary ,penultimate step at best.
2.All 'outer' aids are preliminary and subservient to the 'inner' search.It is the 'inner' inquiry into the 'I' that leads to Truth.
----------------------------------
I have a few questions:
1.What is subject and what is object?Is the subject apart from the Object and can it be disassociated from the Object?
2.What is 'Inner' as distinguished from 'Outer'?Just where lies the boundary between 'inner' and 'outer'.
3.It is said that Reality is formless absolute and worship of name & form is preliminary aid to realizing the absolute.
What is worship of 'Name' &'Form'?Is one worshipping the 'geometric shape' or 'Fractals'?Just what is the object of worship?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the essenceof sadhana?Is it in the method?Is it in the approach?Is it in the Teaching?Is it in the seeker?or is it when the Teaching,the method and the seeker become aligned without any conflict?When does this happen?
I would like to have responses based on direct experience and not from books or quotations.
Namaskar.
Dear Anon, 'your observation seemed very correct that my current state of suffering seems to give me 'contentment' over some happiness that is illusive and elusive. But, this seems a fact in my experiential living.'
You have an unusual way of expressing yourself. I would have thought the suffering in your life gives you little contentment. Consequently people need the courage to search for a way out, a breakthrough. It's hard to be joyful when happiness is so ephemeral. When you realize that, the way is overwhelmingly natural and in some way mysterious.
Dear Ravi, Anon, David and Friends,
David Thanks again for the link your post. Ravi has asked some deep questions, hey jude, you too have voiced your observations.
I wonder even my understandings of happiness, contentment, joyfulness, bliss is really something! Because, I see, that, I do not really know what happiness or Bliss or Joy really is, and, here I find myself, who have been going behind something, that, I knoweth not yet!
But before I could get my thoughts together, the world moves on pretty fast ahead. So do these reflective posts here :)
Unless, I am able to solve this 'stand still', right here, it would be another unconscious birth for me, yet again, if I respond.
I am not sure, that, my thoughts to this questions are the final as yet, the thoughts, that, I may have at the moment are only the initial steps in arriving at the solution(just a way of putting it). It is like a math problem, i just know the first step, and, I do not know yet, the way ahead, and, unless I figure out a way, my responses or my understandings so far is only incomplete, and, therefore, not fit to be expressed!
I remember a quote from Socratus "All that I know is I don't know"
I really don't know! I doubt myself, my knowledge and my understanding! I wonder, if there is anything to the reality, other than the most ordinary daily living with its ups and downs!
xyz
Hello, everyone. Would you give me some advice on understanding the meaning of the following sentences?
'Sri Ramana is a true son of the Indian earth. He is genuine and, in addition to that, something quite phenomenal. In India he is the whitest spot in a white space. What we find in the life and teachings of Sri Ramana is the purest of India; with its breath of world-liberated and liberating humanity, it is a chant of millenniums... (Carl Jung in his foreward to 'Sri Ramana and his message to modern man', as published in the book, The Spiritual Teaching of Ramana Maharshi.)'
I can't understand the meaning of the last sentence which begins with 'with its breath of of world-liberated and liberating humanity...'.
And to Mr.Godman
I hope you'll get well soon.
thank you
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiruvanjiyam - 609 504:
This temple can be reached by a bus
either from Kumbakonam or from Tiruvarur. Mahavishnu prayed to Siva of this temple when he had been separated from his consort Lakshmi. Lakshmi had united with Mahavishnu in this temple.
Siva is called Vanjilinkeswarar. Uma is called MangaLa Nayaki, the one who confers all good things.
The holy waters (Tirtham) is in the form of a well, called Gupatganga, where waters are perennial. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is a sandal tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has sung this temple in 11 verses, Tiru Navukkarasar in 7 verses, Sundaramuri in 10 verses and Manikkavachagar mentons this temple in one line, in Keerthi Tiru Ahaval.
Siva has also got a vehicle of Yama also in this temple. Devotees who have got incurable ailments come and pray to Siva to get cured of ailments and thus prevent death. Brahma, Sage ParAsara, Sage Atri and Indra are said to have prayed to Siva here.
In South India, six temples are said to be equal to Kasi. These are:
1. Tiruvanjiyam
2. TirveNkAdu
3. TiruvaiyARu
4. MayilAduthuRai
5. Tiruvidai maruthur
6. Tiru ChAikAdu (ChAyAvanam)
TiruvAnjiyathil seer pera irunthu... Manikkavachagar, in Tiruvachakam.
****
Punarvasu VaNNam:
Today is the Punarvasu star of Pushya month (Makara or Jan-Feb). Punarvasu is the star of Sri Bhagavan and there will be special pujas for Sri Ramaneswara Mahalingam. Again tomorrow is the Pournami, Full Moon day. Tomorrow too, there will be special pujas to Sri Ramaneswara Mahalingam and incidentally tomorrow is the liberation day of Chinnaswami, Swami Niranjananda Swami, Sarvadhikari.
One verse on this Punarvasu day, from Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai:
Tiru KaNNokkam: Verse 17:
KaNNokkam means eye meeting the eye, or the gaze of the divine eye.
Or looking at the Divine Eye. Muruganar has composed 32 verses on this title. He exhorts every devotee to look into the eyes of Sri Bhagavan in order to attain liberation.
kAkkaiyiru kaNgalukku maNi onRe
kalanthARpol
thAkkumiru nilaiyinukkum sArkariyAi
ennidhayach
chekkiyidai uRai ramanan
sirapeithak kAraNdam
kAkkaikku thonRalodu kaNNokkam
AdAmo!
Just as, for the two eyes of the
crow
there is only one iris,
similarly Ramana rests
in the chamber of my heart
as the witness of the two states
(waking and sleep) that assail me.
In order that he, who is the Lord
even of dark-hued Vishnu,
the protector of this vast
universe,
may flourish and shine,
let us with Ramana play kaNNokkam!
- Tr. T.V. Venkatasubramanian,
Robert Butler and David
Godman.
Sri Bhagavan also mentions this characteristic of crows in Talks No. 313.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about caste rules:
Talks No. 507:
An Arya Samajist from Bangalore had come....
......
Devotee: Should there be distinction of castes?
Maharshi: Who is it that sees such distinctions? Find it out.
Devotee: I find that it is observed in the Asramam. Probably without the approval of Sri Bhagavan, others observe it here.
Maharshi: Who are you that speak of others etc.,? Did you notice others etc., in your sushupti?
Devotee: I am the individuality here. I may not see others in my sleep but I see them now.
Maharshi: No doubt you do. But the one who sees now and the one who did not see in sleep are you only - the same individual. Why should you notice the differences now and be troubled? Be as you were in sleep.
.........
.........
Devotee: You are a Mahatma. You cannot admit castes. But how do the people here enforce such a distinctions?
Maharshi: Did I tell you that I am a Jnani or a Mahatma? You are saying it yourself. Nor did I make a grievance of this caste affair.
Devotee: Paramatma is the same in all.
Maharshi: Why do you bring in all these names? They can take care of themselves. They do not require help.
Devotee; Mahatma Gandhi also admits equality....
Maharshi: Gandhi is not here.
Devotee: Aurobindo does not approve of castes. Do you approve of them?
Maharshi: As for Aurobindo, you ask him. As for my opinion, how does it matter to you? How will it be of use to you? Have you got any opinion on the matter? That alone will affect you you, not the opinion of others.
Devotee: I do not approve of the caste system. Mahatma's opinion is valuable as a guidance. I want your blessings in my attempts.
Maharshi: Mahatma has told you to seek and find your Self. You will not do it but require his blessings.
Devotee: I am trying to follow the instructions. But caste distinction is painful. It must go.
Maharshi: To whom does it cause pain?
Devotee: The members of the society...
Maharshi: It is you who say it. There are countries where there are not such distinctions of caste. Are they free from trouble? There are wars, internecine struggle, etc., Why do you not remedy the evils there?
Devotee: There are troubles here also.
Maharshi: Differences are always there. There are not only human beings, but also animals, plants, etc., The state of affairs cannot be helped.
Devotee: We do not mind animals, etc., at present.
Maharshi: Why not? If they could speak they would claim equality with you and dispute your claims no less vigorously than human beings.
Devotee: But we cannot help it. It is God's work.
Maharshi: If that is God's work then the other part is your work, is that so?
Devotee: It is man made distinction.
continued....
Shiba
This sentence has been much quoted in the Ramana literature. It comes from an old and incomplete translation of what Jung actually wrote. You can find a full translation in Jung's Collected Works:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24318039/Jung-C-G-The-Holy-Men-of-India
The passage you are looking for appears on page 577.
Sri Bhagavan about caste rules:
Talks No. 507 - continues...
Maharshi: You need not notice these distinctions. There is diversity in the world. A unity runs through the diversity. The Self is the same in all. There are no differences in Spirit. All the differences are external and superficial. You find out the Unity and be happy.
The pain of diversity is overcome by the joy of the perception of unity. Moreover, a king may disguise himself as a servant. That makes no difference in the person.
Devotee: I do not object to differences. But the claims of superiority are wrong.
Maharshi: There are differences in the limbs of one's body. When the hand touches the foot, the hand is not defiled. Each limb performs its function. Why do you object to differences?
Devotee: The people feel the injustice of caste distinction. It must be rooted out.
Maharshi: You can individually arrive at the state where such distinctions are not perceived and be happy. How can you hope to reform the world? Even if you try you cannot succeed. Kavyakantha Ganapati Muni offered to initiate Harijans with mantras and make Brahmins of them. But the Harijans did not come forward to accept the offer. That shows that they are themselves afflicted by an inferiority complex. Remove that complex first, before you try to reform others. Moreover, why do you go to places where such distinctions are observed and cause pain to yourself? Why should you not seek places where they are not observed and be happy there?
Gandhiji also tries to bring about equality. He is also up against the barrier of inferiority complex afflicting the lower orders. He cannot enforce his views on others. He observes non violence. So matters stand as they are.
Devotee: We must work to obliterate
caste distinctions.
Maharshi: Then do it. If you have succeeded in the world, then see if the distinctions persist in this place.
Devotee: This must be the first place where I want to effect the reform.
Maharshi: Why do you exert yourself so much to effect reforms? Go to sleep and see if there are differences. There you obliterate differences without any effort.
(Laughter).
*****
Thank you very much, Mr.Godman.
There are many differences between two translations.I have scanned the transration of Jung's Collected Works, but I can't clearly understand C.G.Jung's view to Sri Ramana. It may be certain that he respected Sri Ramana.
thank you
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 35:
chittamAi uL poruLai thernthiruttal
siddhi piRa
siddhielam soppanamAr siddhigaLe -
niddhirai vittu
ornthAl avai meyyo uNmai nilai ninRu
poimai
theernthAr thiyanguvaro ther.
Knowing being the Atman, "That which is", that forever and everywhere shines as the 'readily attained' Reality, is truly the perfect siddhi (attainment) indeed.
All other siddhis (attainments of supernatural or occult powers) are as unreal as the siddhis (attainments) seen and experienced in dreams. Will they be real on waking up from sleep? (No.) They will not be. Will those jivanmuktas (the liberated ones) who are firmly poised in the real form. Atman, having woken up from the sleep of nesceince, ever be deluded by the lure of siddhis? (No.) Know this for certain.
'Siddhi' means what is already attained, a valuable gain. The rarest and the pinnacle of all attainments is the gain of the grandeur of Atman. There is no siddhi hihger or gain greater than the parama siddhi or supreme attainment. A Jivanmukta is the Siddha supreme. Atman is our Truth; our immutable nature. In the case of an ignorant man, it is veiled by nescience, and in the sleep of nescience, an ignorant man alternates among the three states of wakefulness, dream and deep sleep. While the Real Self or simply Existence, is the permanent presence through all these three states. What an ordinary man experiences as the wakeful state is not really a wakeful state one but a dream in the sleep of nescience,
Just as a dreamer while dreaming considers it as real and not as a dream, so also we consider the dream work of maya (the wakeful state) as real and not as a dream. All experiences of dualities, siddhis etc., belong to the domain of this dream of the wakeful state; hence the impermenence and the unreality of the siddhis. With the dawn of Jnana, one is awakened to reality from the sleep of nescience. This nescience which all along was veiling the reality now stands removed along with its dream of wakefulness. The reality now unveiled shines, but whether veiled or unveiled. That ever remains the same, without any change and we are That.
Sri Bhagavan says in Sri Arunachala Stuti Panchakam, 'thedAthuRRa tiruvarul nidhi'. Atman is the treasure, which is really available without searching. What is to be done is to remove the dirt of ego/nescience veiling the Atman.
Sri Sadhu Om says that one who goes after the eight siddhis (anima, mahima etc.,) is only cheating himself and goes far far away from the real siddhi, attainment of Jnana bodham. This Jnana bodham is the real attainment. A Jnani does not go after siddhis. A siddha does not get Jnana. However, in some Jnanis, siddhis would come on their own accord. It is like a King who is accompanied by body guards, horsemen, etc.,
Sri Bhagavan also says the same thing in Ulladu Narpadu, Verses 15 and 16 of Anubandham.
continued.....
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 35:
continues.....
The Anubandham verses, 15 and 16 say:
15. Not realizing that they themselves are moved by energy not their own, some fools are busy seeking miraculous powers. The antics are like the boast of the cripple who said to his friends: If you raise me to my feet, these enemies are nothing before me.
16. Since the stilling of the mind is true liberation and miraculous powers are unattainable without an act of the mind, how can they whose mind is set on such powers enter the bliss of liberation which is the ending of all stir of the mind?
The Upanishadic story of a lion cub that has strayed into the flock of sheep may be worth remembering here. A lion cub losing its way in a jungle finds itself in the company of lambs and grows up like the lambs, following their habits including the bleating of the lambs. Once a lion attacking the flock finds this cub, who cannot run as fast as the lambs and is left behind. Then the lion teaches the cub that it is one of its own kind. The lion cub does not believe. Then it is taken to a waterfront and asked to observe its own reflection there. On seeing this, the cub realizes its true identity and, roaring like a lion bolts into the forest. Similarly, when a guru instructs us on our own identity we see and know for ourselves that we are not the ordinary forms of body-mind complexes but sons and daughters of immortality. When ignorance is thus removed, true nature stands revealed. The Atman is immutable.
This will make it clear that Atman is ever realized. It is an attainment eternally present. Any substance newly gained and not being our true nature will also be lost. A lion cub is always a lion
and not a lamb. Excepting the attainment of our real nature, all supermental powers, occult powers or siddhis are all unreal. Some desirous of gaining Jnana to start with engage themeselves in such practices but midway, lured by siddhis, hankering after such powers, adopt appropriate yogic practices to gain such ends. Finally they get irretrievably caught in the quagmire of siddhis and lose themselves. Such a deluded mind loses its purity and capacity to carry on the inquiry to know itself. All these are stated in the verse under the name 'dream like gains' - soppnamAr siddhigaLe.
continued....
Dear Ravi and friends, You asked some interesting questions.
Thinking of a close relative recently I kept looking at the relationship from all angles. I found no matter how I approached the problem my own self interest was paramount. This of course is the bondage, the separation, the 'ego' that advaita speaks of.
If I pause and become aware of the thought patterns, if I stop the thoughts momentarily, I do not fall apart..I still am.
Also if I stop the thoughts there is no past or fretting for the future; There is peace.
hey jude,
Thanks very much for your response.We will go into what you have posted and correlate it with some of the questions that I have posted.
At the outset,let me clarify that I have not raised them for any intellectual discussion but to get some practical insights into sAdhana.
Although I have asked apparently 3 questions they are all related in a way and can be deemed as a single question.
You have said well:
"Thinking of a close relative recently I kept looking at the relationship from all angles. I found no matter how I approached the problem my own self interest was paramount"
Knowing that you are a Devotee of Sri Bhagavan,Please permit me to ask this:
what is the nature of the Relationship between You and Bhagavan?What happens to the 'self interest'?What attracts you to Bhagavan?
Namaskar.
The problem is that we tend to tighten ourselves so much in our spiritual quest that we begin to catagorise everything as ego, bondage. But I felt it is not really so.
We should not forget that the enlightenment, that we are aspiring for is not something inert, lifeless, feel-less being, but a being, a full being, a complete being.
Do we say that Ramanar never remembered anything of his childhood days? he conducted himself like a child brimming with joy when Ranga Iyer met him after he had become a great Maharshi. He composed a prayer to Arunachala when his mother was ill.
Somehow, we have come to accept that an enlightened being is some SUPER HUMAN.
The recognition of our memories of relationship remains, but it does not give rise to some sort of agitation. Its simple recognition.
Nagaraj
Nagaraj,
I agree with what you have posted.
Apropos of Relationships ,an excerpt Talks with sri Ramana Maharshi , No.495 posted afew days back by our friend R.Subramanian:
Devotee: How can I do my duties without attachment? There is my wife, there are my children. I must do my duty towards them. Affection is necessary. Am I right?
Maharshi: How do you do your work
in college?
Devotee: (laughing) For wages.
Maharshi: Not because you are attached, simply as doing your duty.
Devotee: But my pupils expect me to love them.
Maharshi: "Detachment in the interior and attachment in appearance, says Yoga Vasishtam".
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Sri Bhagavan lived this teaching.This is immensely Practical and is definitely the way to live in this world.
Sri Ramakrishna explains this in his inimitably simple way that the dullest of us can understand-An excerpt From The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
M. (humbly):"How ought we to live in the world?"
MASTER: "Do all your duties, but keep your mind on God. Live with all - with wife and
children, father and mother - and serve them. Treat them as if they were very dear to you,
but know in your heart of hearts that they do not belong to you.
"A maidservant in the house of a rich man performs all the household duties, but her
thoughts are fixed on her own home in her native village. She brings up her Master's
children as if they were her own. She even speaks of them as 'my Rama' or 'my Hari'. But in
her own mind she knows very well that they do not belong to her at all."
In order to do this we need to Live deeply in our core or essence of our being.In Love there is no attachment.
Namaskar.
And, Ravi,
The love of such enlightened being is so POWERFUL. When an Enlightened being shows his concern or compassion or grace, it hits us to the core, it melts us.
So, such an enlightened being, genuinely shows his compassion, when he graces so. He is not just showing it displaying his compassion outside and being indifferent from within.
What is within is what is without as well for an enlightened being.
Sometimes, these english translations such as
"Detachment in the interior and attachment in appearance, says Yoga Vasishtam"
"Treat them as if they were very dear to you"
are actually misleading, I thought!
It is intersting to not the verse 27 of Ulladu Naarpadu Anubandham which says -
Seeming to have enthusiasm and delight, seeming to have
excitement and aversion, seeming to exercise initiative and
perseverance, and yet without attachment, play, O hero, in
the world. Released from all bonds of attachment and with
equanimity of mind, acting outwardly in all situations in
accordance with the part you have assumed, play as you
please, O hero, in the world.
But when I recall Bhagavan himself, in his daily routine, I can never even think for a moment that Bhagavan was seeming to have enthusiasm or he seemingly showed delight when he fed the squirrels, etc...
There is no way, he is simply showing his concern or seemingly showing his compassion. His love surpasses even bondage. its seems mother of all bondage, a highest bondage, ironically, this level of bondage is freedom!
Because, Bhagavan, enlightened being, has no necessity to seem like something! I wonder...
Just by his glance so many were so much moved to Irresistible tears of joy, love, compassion, surpassing thousands of mothers love.
Nagaraj
Nagaraj,
"He is not just showing it displaying his compassion outside and being indifferent from within".
Sure it is.There is no pretense.It is the Very nature of Love that it gives of itself unreservedly and at the same time remains without any attachment.The Lack of attachment is not to be mistaken as cold indifference.
"Treat them as if they were very dear to you"
Does not mean just putting up an outer facade.It just means that Love them in a Human way,as they will understand only this Human Expression of Love and care and attention and yet Love is far deeper and unfathomable than its outer limited Human expression.Bottomless as it is, Love is utterly unruffled by what happens on the surface.It Perfectly understands that all outer Relationships will be dissolved in time.The Only Lasting relationship is the one with God who is the Essence in us-Whose Nature is Love and Peace.
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"Just by his glance so many were so much moved to Irresistible tears of joy, love, compassion, surpassing thousands of mothers love"
It goes to prove that we have this Love as the essence of our Being and this can vibrate in sympathetic Fashion.This precisely answers my Question on the Nature of the Subject-Object Relationship.The Subject is on the same level as the Object and vice versa.
I will cover this a little later.
Namaskar.
Friends,
On Relationship,an Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Once Rama asked Hanuman, 'How do you look on Me?' And Hanuman replied: 'O Rama,
as long as I have the feeling of "I", I see that Thou art the whole and I am a part; Thou art
the Master and I am Thy servant. But when, O Rama, I have the knowledge of Truth, then I
realize that Thou art I and I am Thou.'
"The relationship of master and servant is the proper one. Since this 'I' must remain, let the
rascal be God's servant.
Evil of "I"and "mine"
"'I' and 'mine' - these constitute ignorance. 'My house', 'my wealth', 'my learning', 'my
possessions' - the attitude that prompts one to say such things comes of ignorance. On the
contrary, the attitude born of Knowledge is: 'O God, Thou art the Master, and all these
things belong to Thee. House, family, children, attendants, friends, are Thine.'
"One should constantly remember death. Nothing will survive death. We are born into this
world to perform certain duties, like the people who come from the countryside to Calcutta
on business. If a visitor goes to a rich man's garden, the superintendent says to him, 'This is
our garden', 'This is our lake', and so forth. But if the superintendent is dismissed for some
misdeed, he can't carry away even his mango-wood chest. He sends it secretly by the gatekeeper.
(Laughter.)
"God laughs on two occasions. He laughs when the physician says to the patient's mother,
'Don't be afraid, mother; I shall certainly cure your boy.' God laughs, saying to Himself, 'I
am going to take his life, and this man says he will save it!' The physician thinks he is the
master, forgetting that God is the Master. God laughs again when two brothers divide their
land with a string, saying to each other, 'This side is mine and that side is your'. He laughs
and says to Himself, 'The whole universe belongs to Me, but they say they own this portion
or that portion.'
"Can one know God through reasoning? Be His servant, surrender yourself to Him, and
then pray to Him."
Namaskar.
This is the primordial I, the first I that has originated from the Self. One of the 4 types of speeches. Para, Pashyanti, Madhyama, Vaikhari.
The most subtle feeling of 'I' is the Para, which just originates subtly, and, the whole world originates from this small seed of feeling of I.
Here is where the Sri Vaishnavites of Dwaita philosophy comes into play. While they say that this 'I' remains, let it be in service to God, Paramatma, Shankara or Ramana did not stop here, they asked to enquire further, where from has this 'I' sprung, enquire, and, find it to not exist at all!
When somebody asked Bhagavan what he would do if God appeared before him, he responded humorously that he would ask that God to stop having this business of coming and going.
It is said, only after Chidambara Darishan one can see Arunachala. Chidambara Natanam or dance is nothing but the dance of this primordial 'I' has take in the form of 'Para' still water with ripples, and enquiring further, this also is absorbed by the stillness of Arunachala, where the I is absorbed in itself. Still water.
This is the primordial I, the first I that has originated from the Self. One of the 4 types of speeches. Para, Pashyanti, Madhyama, Vaikhari.
The most subtle feeling of 'I' is the Para, which just originates subtly, and, the whole world originates from this small seed of feeling of I.
Here is where the Sri Vaishnavites of Dwaita philosophy comes into play. While they say that this 'I' remains, let it be in service to God, Paramatma, Shankara or Ramana did not stop here, they asked to enquire further, where from has this 'I' sprung, enquire, and, find it to not exist at all!
When somebody asked Bhagavan what he would do if God appeared before him, he responded humorously that he would ask that God to stop having this business of coming and going.
It is said, only after Chidambara Darishan one can see Arunachala. Chidambara Natanam or dance is nothing but the dance of this primordial 'I' has take in the form of 'Para' still water with ripples, and enquiring further, this also is absorbed by the stillness of Arunachala, where the I is absorbed in itself. Still water.
Nagaraj
Nagaraj,
"Here is where the Sri Vaishnavites of Dwaita philosophy comes into play. While they say that this 'I' remains, let it be in service to God, Paramatma, Shankara or Ramana did not stop here, they asked to enquire further, where from has this 'I' sprung, enquire, and, find it to not exist at all!"
Now we are theorizing!what do we mean by sankara and Ramana?
Did not sri Bhagavan say 'AppAvukku pillai adakkam'-The son is subservient to the Father?What Madhwa or a Ramanauja is saying is exactly that.
The Problem with us is that we caught up in admiration and mistaking this for adoration.Admiration thrives on comparisons ,establishing the object of admiration as the Very Supreme,its philosophy as the ultimate,etc.Adoration cares too hoots for any of these things.It is just content with Love.
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute is one, and one only. But It is associated with
different limiting adjuncts on account of the different degrees of Its manifestation. That is
why one finds various forms of God. The devotee sings, 'O my Divine Mother, Thou art all
these!' Wherever you see actions, like creation, preservation, and dissolution, there is the
manifestation of Sakti. Water is water whether it is calm or full of waves and bubbles. The
Absolute alone is the Primordial Energy, which creates, preserves, and destroys. Thus it is
the same 'Captain', whether he remains inactive or performs his worship or pays a visit to
the Governor General. Only we designate him by different names at different times."
Namaskar.
Ravi,
True, agree with you, but, it is paradoxical, cant help it!
Because, even the service to God, doing service, doing worship, etc... too, after a point becomes stale (not sure if this is the right word to use)
The existence of 'I' still is painful!
Nagaraj
Nagaraj,
"The existence of 'I' still is painful!"
It is not the existence of the 'I'but what we have made of it that is painful.
Here is an excerpt from 'I am That' where Nisargadatta maharaj so beautifully drives home the point:
Q: Buddha too has said that for the attainment of nirvana one must go to living beings. Consciousness needs life to grow.
M: The world itself is contact -- the totality of all contacts actualised in consciousness. The spirit touches matter and consciousness results. Such consciousness. when tainted with memory and expectation, becomes bondage. Pure experience does not bind; experience caught between desire and fear is impure and creates karma.
Q: Can there be happiness in unity? Does not all happiness imply necessarily contact, hence duality?
M: There is nothing wrong with duality as long as it does not create conflict. Multiplicity and variety without strife is joy. In pure consciousness there is light. For warmth, contact is needed. Above the unity of being is the union of love. Love is the meaning and purpose of duality."
Namaskar.
Nagaraj/Friends,
"Because, even the service to God, doing service, doing worship, etc... too, after a point becomes stale"
We may have built these on sand dunes of mental sentiment and not on Love.
Love uplifts the most trivial of Labour or service and transforms every act.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Does that infer that world is, and the Self? separately? Are we to accept duality to exist? just that the Self has to refine itself in its conduct?
I felt, responses of Realised Sages, gave specific responses to specific persons based on the their pakva. Because, we can see elsewhere, the same Sages contradict their own responses at other instance to another question by another person.
in the Supplement of Ulladu Naarpadu,
That is th real, secret, treasure in he heart, in which alone this world exists, to which this entire world belongs, from which it comes into existence, for (the realisation of) which alone, it is, by which the world appears, and which itself is all the world; we meditate on that transcendental reality within as the heart.
In Ramana Hridayam, 8 (UN 3)
of what use it is to argue,
'the world is real',
'it is illusory appearance',
'it is endued with consciousness',
'it is inert',
'it is happy',
'it is surely miserable?'
That state of egolessness transcending the creeds of duality and unity, which is our own nature, and which is to be won by turning awa from the world and experiencing the Real Self, is alone dear to all alike
Ramana Hridayam 12, (UN 9)
The two - Universe and the mind - rise and set as one, yet this inert Universe is lit up by the mind alone. Know that the sole, unborn, infinite Being whose nature is Pure Consciousness and in which the two (the universe and the mind) rise and set, though It itself neither rises nor sets, is alone Real.
To somebody he responded, find out the worshiped and worshiper when he was asked a way to worship God.
Nagaraj
Siva Temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
(Lesser know temples.)
Tirup puhalur - 609 704.
This temple can be reached by bus from Kumbakonam or TiruvArur. This is a large temple and is surrounded by a deep ciruclar pit (which was said to contain water, called in Tamizh agazhi). Siva is called Agniswarar and Uma is called KaruthAzh kuzhali, the lady with jet black locks of hair. The shrine of Chandrasekhara within the temple is also quite famous. There are shrines for Tirunavukkarasar (he attained liberation here), and Ganapati called VAthApi Ganapati, The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Agni tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Virukasham) is Punnai tree (?).
When Sundaramurti SwamigaL came to this temple, he slept at night with three or four bricks as pillow. In the morning the bricks had turned into gold slabs. When Tirunavukkarasar came here for cleaning up the temple precincts, there were gravels of gold and he also swept them away and put them in the dustbin! There is also a shrine for Muruga Nayanar, one of the 63 Saiva Saints. Muruga Naynar used to do temple work by plucking flowers and making garlands for Siva.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 22 of his verses, Tirunavukkarasar in 44 of his verses and Sundarmurti in 11 of his verses.
****
Nagaraj,
Sometimes,it is better to ignore all Teachings and stand on our own.Sri Bhagavan used to say(Paraphrased)that one may read the scriptures after Realization!Then we will understand things in the proper context.Or else we will be forever caught in ideas however brilliant.These ideas are like objects that can decorate our Drawing room.They will not even help us to skip a single meal without discomfort if for some reason we do not have the money to pay for it!
Do we have a 'I'?Can it avoid relationship and ignore the world?Let us answer these from our experience and not from our learning.
You are asking whether Duality has to be accepted?As long as we are conscious that we have a body,we have no other option but to accept it.Can this be wished away by any quotation or verse from anyone be he Bhagavan or any other.
I have quoted Sri Nisargadatta maharaj to highlight that Duality in itself is not a Problem.
It is sufficient to understand this much.We may understand better as our Sadhana progresses.
Namaskar.
Nagaraj,
A Chess player can play both the sides of the Board,White and Black.There is only one person but he becomes two players-only then the Game of Chess can be played by that person.
I am just citing this as an analogy and this may help us to understand if we do not analyse and dissect it.When analysed and dissected,every analogy will fall apart and one may not benefit at all.
The world of apparent Duality can be understood in this fashion.God alone has become the world and its Living beings-so to say.
Namaskar.
Pushya Star day in Pushya month:
Today is Pushya star day in Pushya month. The month got its name due to the importance of this star for this month. This invariably comes on the full moon day. This day is a festival day in all Muruga temples. On this day Muruga received his Spear from Mother Uma before going to war with Surapadman and his brothers. This Spear is Sakti Vel or the embodiment of energy. Jnana Vel or the embodiment of Wisdom. The festival is celebrated in the temples representing six abodes of Muruga, viz., TiruparangunRam, Tiruchendur, Pazhani, Swamimalai, Tiruttani and Pazhamudisolai. The festival is also celebrated in Kadirgamam, where there is only a Yantra of Muruga behind a screen and priests are Buddhists! Other temples that celebrate this festival are Sikkal (near Nagapattinam), SiruvApuri (near Tiruttani), Mayilam (near Puduchery) and in Tiruporur etc.,
Being a full moon day, there will be special pujas for Sri Ramaneswara Mahalingam also in Sri Ramanasramam.
Sri Bhagavan has been visioned as Muruga by many devotees. Sri Bhagavan has also composed a stray verse where he says to Ganesa in the niche: "You have made me a beggar but have taken care of your food for your big stomach, O Ganesa in the niche! Is your heart made of stone? Please look at me, the one who came after you, (and do the needful for my food!)"
PiLLaiyai peRRavanaip pichANdi Akki
engum
PiLLaiyai pezh vayiRRai peNineer -
piLLai yan
Kannenjo mAdathup piLLaiyAre kaN
pArum
Pinvanthan thannai neer peRRu.
This Ganesa in the niche can be seen in the photograph of Sri Bhagavan, taken sometime in 1901.
He appears there with bushy dark hair, powerful eyes and long finger nails.
Sri Sanakarananda Bharati an ascetic of Uttarakasi had in his meditation seen Sri Bhagavan as Pazhani Muruga and has made an Ashottaram (108 holy names) starting with: Sri SonaparvathAdheesa, Sri Kumaramcha Sambhava.
In another dhyana sloka, Sri Bhagavan Himself has said:
ARavor iruLai azhippon guhaiyil
URaivon uLathir koNAthon - niRai
oLiyon
Aadi sei Jnana vAyilon guha ramana
Nathani etthuvom.
Let us pray to Guha Ramana Natha, who removes the darkness of the righteous, who resides in the Heart Cave, beyond comprehension of mind, full of effulgence, the ancient child, with a spear of Jnana!
*****
Dear Ravi,
I am just thinking aloud. Yes, I absolutely agree with your words that it is sometimes better to ignore all teachings and stand on our own.
The very point of raising these points is to bring in to light the main issue. You said clearly, that,
As long as we are conscious that we have a body,we have no other option but to accept it.Can this be wished away by any quotation or verse from anyone be he Bhagavan or any other.
just to clarify that I am not getting personal, or arguing about your quote of Nisargadaatta Maharaj, I am not trying to prove yourself or myself right or wrong. The only purpose is to genuienly move ahead.
you have actually narrowed the discussion to the crux. The main issue is exactly what you have raised as above.
Surely, if learning or knowledge of scriptures is not of help to our daily living, then our understanding is to looked into deeper. Just this is my attempt. o question the touchy topics of questions within.
Knowledge relieves immediately, right knowledge! Therefore, These questions that raise forth from withing ought not to be suppresed in the name of wisdom, which is why I am forced to ask, genuienly.
From our conscious living with body identity, we have no other option but to accept duality. Yes whether one accepts or not, the very fact that we are discussing here, by default amounts to accepting duality. My objective is just to look at it, study it, and try to see the light of what Sages have said. For the same point, Bhagavan says again in Ulladu Naarpadu 37, Ramana Hridayam 42, He says -
Even the statement that duality is real so long as one is striving to reach the goal, but there is non-duality on accomplishment, is not at all correct. Who else but the tenth man was the one in the parable, both when he himself was anxiously seeking the tenth man with the idea that he was missing, and when he had found himself to be the missing tenth man.
How can we not question it? and wait? This saying of Bhagavan is a Bullet Bomb, blasting us out of our comfort zone. We are still expecting to realise truth at some future time, while Bhagavan says, are already that, just we need to see it properly.
This is a genuine contemplation, sometimes we just don't have option, but, when the discussion goes to touchy topic, it cannot but help seem decorating the discussion with scriptural sayings and sayings of the sages, which is not intended! Can we avoid looking in to it?
Nagaraj
Pushya Star in Pushya month - the
darshan of Light by VaLLalAr Ramalinga SwamigaL.
VaLLalAr Ramalinga SwamigaL, Ramalingam in his childhood, was born on October 5, 1823, Sunday. He was born in Maruthur near Chidambaram for Ramaiah Pillai and Chinnamma. He married a girl by name Dhanakodi Amma. He lived in Chennai between 1925 to 1858, in Karunguzhi near Neyveli between 1858 to 1867 and in Mettukuppam between 1870 and 1874. In a small hall called Satya Jnana Sabha, he had the vision of Light on January 25, 1872 on a Pushya star day in Pushya month.
He was a great Siva Yogi, well versed in Yogic practices and after praying to Muruga and Siva, he preferred to pray to Siva as only a Light (formelss form). His huge collection of poems is divided into six canons (Tirumurais) and the last volume is in prose, giving final teaching without using poetry.
He went into meditation in a room in Mettukuppam, asking his disciples to go away and come back
after 48 days. On the forty ninth day, when the disciples opened the door, they found nothing inside. VaLLalAr had simply dissolved himself into thin air! No remains of mortal coil. This happened on January 30, 1874.
Sri Ramalinga SwamigaL has written a special preface to Ozhivil Odukkam, of KaNNudaiya VaLLalAr, highlighting the meaning and purport of the first verse only!
One Verse of Sri Ramalinga SwsmigaL:
enRu varumo nALaikke varumo allathu
maRRu
enRu varumo aRiyen en gove - thunRu
mala
vemmAyai aRRu veLikkuL veLi
nadanthu
summa irukkum sukam!
I don't know whether it would come today, or tomorrow or on some other day, O Lord, the bliss of walking into the Pure Space beyond the three impurities and remaining summa (still)!
Sri Ramalinga Swami has done many miracles, the famous one being lighting lamps in a Siva temple without oil and using only water, after chanting Siva Panchaksharam into the water pot.
Sri Ramalinga SwamigaL had great love for Tiruvachakam and the saint Manikkavachagar. He ever used to keep one verse from Tiruvachakam written on a palm leaf on his head under the full dhoti covering his body and head.
In twentieth century Sri Kripananda Variyar had great love for Saint Ramalinga Swamigal and spent his time in speaking about his glory whenever he discoursed on Skandam or Ramayanam. He had collected money to renovate the Mettukuppam
hall called Siddhi VaLAgam and also held a trust to continue the service of offering food to the alms seekers and visitors who come to visit this place.
****
Nagaraj,
"Knowledge relieves immediately, right knowledge! Therefore, These questions that raise forth from withing ought not to be suppressed in the name of wisdom, which is why I am forced to ask, genuinely".
"How can we not question it? and wait? This saying of Bhagavan is a Bullet Bomb, blasting us out of our comfort zone."
Yes Friend,one may indeed question the fundamentals.What is objected to by me is only the Presupposition of The Answer-That the Self is this and not that or beyond this and that;World is this or that or does not exist,etc,etc!
One also should ask oneself-Am I just intrigued by this question?Or Is it a Do or Die situation for me to pose this question and seek the answer(so to say)-This is where Earnestness comes in.It is not enough that we ask the question.It is only when the question seizes us that it will become a precursor to unraveling the riddle.
If the Question is all consuming does it remain a question?Does one go on repeating the question ad infinitum?
Namaskar.
Yes, Ravi,
while we go further from here, can we avoid questions and answers in such a contemplative discussion? A question comes together with answers. therefore the answers such as,
That the Self is this and not that or beyond this and that;World is this or that or does not exist,etc,etc!
cannot be avoided, infact, such answers, are questions only, because, an answer which gives rise to further question cannot be an answer. Therefore, we have to move on, along with these discrepancies, accepting it. One saying that self is this or self is that does not mean an end of search. It is also part of the eternal question.
Moreover, we have been taking birth millions of infinitym times, each question is a birth. By not repeating the question, again and again, are we avoiding birth? are the questions going to stop?
Therefore, lets move on along with our discrepancies, our ignorance, along with our childish repetitive responses and questions, yes, I am aware, :) what other way is?
Cheers
Nagaraj
Swami Niranjananda Liberation Day:
Feb. 7, 2012:
Today is the liberation day of Swami Niranjananda, also called Sarvadhikari of Sri Ramanasramam.
Nagasundaram, the younger brother of Sri Bhagavan, arrived in Tiruvannamalai in 1917, when he was 32 years old. He had married Mangalam the eldest daughter of his aunt's (Nelliappa Iyer's wife) sister. After the death of his wife Mangalam, he left his only surviving male child to the care of Nelliappa Iyer and came to Sri Bhagavan. In 1918, he took the decisive step of renouncing the world and taking sannyasa. He received diksa and after placing the ochre robes in front of Sri Bhagavan, he donned them.
From 1924 to 1930, the Asramam was looked after by the Sanskrit scholar Vasudeva Sastri and Gopal Rao who had a khadi cloth shop in the town. In October 1931, Sri Niranjananda Swami took full charge of the Asramam. He came to be called Sarvadhikari or Chinnaswami.
In 1932, the devotees of Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni wanted him to be the manager of the Asramam and they broached the subject to Sri Bhagavan. In the course of the discussions, Sri Bhagavan turned to Nayana and said in a gentle voice: Picchai (Chinnaswami's pet name) wants to be the Manager. avan thAn kattikoNdu alaRaRRume... Let him hold that post and suffer. From that moment Nayana gave up the idea of becoming the Manager.
Chinnaswami hardly talked to Sri Bhagavan directly but he never did anything without Sri Bhagavan's direct or indirect consent. However, there is at least one instance, that Chinnaswami talked in an authoritarian way in the presence of Sri Bhagavan. That was when Paul Brunton took notes in the presence of Sri Bhagavan. Paul Brunton after the success of his book A Search of Secret India, began writing many other books in which he would sometimes adopt the Mahrshi's teachings without giving due acknowledgement. When the Asramam authorities realized this, Chinnaswami stopped him from taking notes in the Hall. It was very unusual to see Chinnaswami appear so bold and authoritative before the Maharshi. He must have felt that the exploitation of Brunton must stop and confident that Sri Bhagavan was behind him.
continued....
Nagaraj,
"what other way is?"
The same KISS principle applies!Keep it short and simple.
For seekers of JnAna, those pursuing Sri Bhagavan's path of Self Enquiry-Nothing more is needed than his 'nAn yAr' writeup.
I have not read the Ulladhu nArpadhu but from the little acquaintance that I have with this work,I tend to feel that this is more meant for scholars.They can write their commentaries on it and revel in its subtleties.It may suit the likes of Lakshmana sarma or kapali sastri.
This is not to dissuade devotees from reading these works;Please do so if you feel inclined.Anything done with devotion and earnestness is indeed a sadhana.Only let it not become a baggage that wears one down!
As Sri Ramakrishna so succinctly says:
"One needs a sword and shield to kill
others; but to kill oneself, a needle or a nail-knife suffices."
Namaskar.
Swami Niranjananda Liberation Day:
continues....
Chinnaswami had also several quarrels with Annamalai Swami, when building of Mother's Temple, Cow Shed, visitors' rooms, Vedapatasala etc., were constructed. Annamalai Swami had always Sri Bhagavan behind him and on
many occasions, he ignored Chinnaswami's directions. Chinnaswami was also prevented by Sri Bhagavan for going to places to collect funds for construction works, including Mother's temple.
Chinnaswami had been responsible for acquiring the house in which Sri Bhagavan was born in Tiruchuzhi and naming it Sundara Mandiram. He also helped to establish a post office, railway station and bus facilities in Tiruchuzhi. He was also instrumental in buying the house in Madurai, in which Sri Bhagavan attained enlightenment and named it Ramana Mandiram.
Earlier to 1920s, Sri Bhagavan's works were printed and published by various devotees like Echammal, Narayana Reddi and Annadurai and were sold in the North East corner mandapam, in Sri Arunachaleswara Temple under the seal of Ramaneeya
VAni PustakAlayam. Chinnaswami started the present Sri Ramanasramam Book Depot sometime in late 1920s.
The books that were published with the name of Sri Ramanasramam were first, the Collected Works in Tamizh, NAn YAr, Sri Ramana Vijayam of Suddhananda Bharati.
With his untiring efforts the Maha Kumbhabhishekam of Mother's Temple was begun on March 13, 1949 and concluded on March 17, 1949.
Once after the Kumbhabhishekam, when someone wanted to do pada puja for Chinnaswami, he trembled and said: You people think you can trick me. No way, I will not accept pada puja. It is only for those who have no dehatma buddhi (I am the body consciousness). I don't deserve any pada puja. He got off the stage and walked away.
Once Uma wife of Somasundaram Pillai named Chinnaswami 'clothes beating stone' or whipping board, because by Sri Bhagavan's grace, he put up cheerfully with all the complaints that people made about his management of the Asramam.
On September 30, 1950, a management committee with seventeen members was constituted. In 1952, Chinnaswami had an intestinal disease and heart pain. His purvasrma sister Alamelu had also passed away on Jan, 3, 1953. One day he called close relatives and devotees to hear his last instructions. He said: "I am going away with stainless hands and a fulfilled heart. I have never touched a paise of the Asramam for my personal possessions. Everything here, every stick and stone belongs to Sri Bhagavan. You have to treat them with devotion. You must give your heart and mind to Sri Bhagavan. He will shower your heart with grace. Be truthful and honest. In doing your Asramam duties, you must uphold the virtue of your lineage."
He left his body on the full moon day, Thursday, January 29, 1953. Pushya month, Pushya star, full moon day.
concluded.
(Source: In the service of Sri Bhagavan, Sri Ramanassramam.)
*****
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 35:
continues.....
Sri Bhagavan once narrated the story of Vriddhachala Gurukkkal to emphasize the truth of how the search for siddhis leads people astray. While Sri Bhagavan was in Skandsaramam, Vriddhachala Gurukkal of Tiruvannamalai had the new room built and installed Ambika there and used to offer pujas to the deity. He went in for siddhis and to show various feats such as getting sacred ash, sugar, coins. Sometimes he used to sit in Samadhi for forty days. Later he was led astray by these siddhis.
One may dream oneself being a great Siddha, performing rare feats, but, on waking up, realizes that siddhis perceived in those dream have no existence at all, and he no longer considers those dream-gains as real. Jnanis, awakened to reality from the sleep of nescience, dismiss such powers as worthless tinsel. Though one should win at one stroke all the eightfold siddhis people yearn for, all of one's training is just wasted if one fails to undo the primal knot and to reclaim the one sole perfect jewel the Self. Ordinary men who cannot estimate the true glory and greatness of a Jnani take the power of siddhis that a Jnani possesses as a measure of his true greatness. When a devotee questioned whether wisdom and siddhis are opposed to each other or they go hand in hand, Sri Bhagavan answered, 'To be established in the natural state is incessantly performing the most difficult penance. Spontaneously powers come to the seer by such ripeness. He will sport such powers only if so fated," and also that the wise do not see the world as apart from the Self. Even while exercising powers they do not regard it as other than the Self. The wise one whose fate does not lie that way remains motionless like a waveless ocean, even though he is full of power. Therefore siddhis are acquired by prarabdha and are not a hindrance in mukti but they are an obstacle on the way to mukti.
True Jnanis, no longer under the spell of Maya, are beyond the allurement of siddhis, a play of Maya. Therefore, manifestations of siddhis find no place in them, for the siddhis are not truly representative of their eternally real state of the Self. Sri Bhagavan calls such manifestations 'the dance of mad men'.
The peace of one poised in the Self is well expressed in Tirumandiram by Tirumoolar:
In space pure is tranquility seated
In space pure It does repose
Tranquility begins where Vedas end
There in self realization, they
purely abide.
continued....
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 35.
continues....
Once Yogi Ramaiah narrated to Sri Bhagavan the performance of a conjuror who could materialize, by mere wave of his hand, whatever people wished for, striking people with wonder and amazement. Yogi Ramaiah, to test and get at the truth, asked him for a packet of hot, freshly fried pakoras, which the conjuror materialized in a trice and passed on to the yogi. They were indeed hot and very tasty. Ironically, after a display of such feats, he passed around an old tin box soliciting alms. The yogi seeking him alone, questioned him as to while he could satisfy all his wants by mere wave of his hand, the way he materialized things, why should he beg? The magician narrated that he had performed severe penance to win the favor of a spirit that would provide him whatever he wished for. The power was granted on the condition that he could never use it either for himself or his family. On trying to wriggle out of the argument, he was told that the fruit of his penance being inexorable had to be reaped willy- nilly and that if he opted out he would be killed by the spirit. Thus he was driven to the necessity of begging to eke out a living. After listening to this, Sri Bhagavan said, "The fate of all who run after siddhis is the same as that of this poor man", thus reminding one of Dr. Faustus who sold his soul to Mephistopheles, the devil, to gain such powers.
Verse 35 concluded.
axacedgeRavi, You ask what happens to the self interest? Not ignoring but being aware of the self interest makes it lose its hold and you see things (the selfishness) as it really is.
The devotion I feel for Ramana has ebbed and flowed over the years, obviously a reflection of my vasanas. Often just seeing one of his many beautiful pictures, they seem to reflect all of humanity, can really impact on ones mood.
Also many of the great mahavakyas spoken by the Maharshi have incredible sway.
Can anyone not be aware of not only what he said but the way he lived, treating people of all persuasions and animals totally as equals.
Many give lip service to equality but non have lived it like Ramana.
I was overwhelmed when I first came across Ramana and his teaching and after so many years I'm still amazed by how he lived, what he said and what was written down by him and his close devotees.
hey jude,
What is the Relationship with Ramana?What happens to the self interest in this relationship?
Is this similiar to the other relationships?What is its essence?Does it impact one's mood only?Or do we become aware of something deep within us,something beautiful that is not put together by the mind?Have we not encountered at least for a brief moment when all the pettiness has fallen away and all self seeking had been put to naught hushed in Love and peace.This is the essence in us.
Do we experience 'Ramana' outside us or within 'us'?Surely we experience this in our inner being-inner means 'our essence' or core.
Now ,as you have said that there is the waxing and waning of the devotion-there may be periods when everything is totally covered up and there is the drudgery of the everyday world(when we are externalized).The way to get back to this source of beauty and love in us is through smarana;smarana is not remembrance ,it is recollection.Remembrance takes us to some events outside that happened sometime in the past.Recollection is Reliving all that here and now.As one grows in sensitivity the least effort is good enough to recollect-The Easiest way to recollect is to utter the Name.This acts like the open sesame and ushers us into the Ever living Presence.The Divine name is nothing but a condensed and potent sanjeevi(Life saving Drug!)that restores us from the swoon we have fallen into.To dwell more and more in the presence is what would break the hold of the Vasanas.
One then realises that all Great ones,Avatars,Gods are manifestations of this essence in us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you say that by just being aware of the ways of the self(its petty seekings)the vagaries of the mind are shed-This is part of the Viveka-Vairagya duo.
All these ingredients of Viveka,vairagya,Bhakti and Jnana unfold in the sadhaka and manifest as Serenity and contentment,as steadfastness and Equanimity,as Peace and Love.
One then Realises that Sadhana is to let God do this unfolding and one's job is to give one's assent to this -by being open and receptive.
As Sri Ramakrishna says:
"Bhakti is the one essential thing. To be sure, God exists in all beings. Who,
then, is a devotee? He whose mind dwells on God. But this is not possible as long as one
has egotism and vanity. The water of God's grace cannot collect on the high mound of
egotism. It runs down. I am a mere machine."
Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.
hey jude/Friends,
On the Relationship with Ramana and its impact on self-interest-Interesting to see what the Great Tamil Sage tiruvaLLuvar has said in the KuraL(verse 350):
paRRuga paRRu ARRAn paRRinai;appaRRaip
paRRuga paRRu vidaRku.
meaning-Attach yourself to the one without attachment;cling to That attachment to get rid of attachment!
Attachment to the one without attachment-means devotion to the JnAni.This Devotional clinging will free us from all attachment;When we are free from all attachments,we rest in our primordial state of Love and Peace.
Namaskar.
Amater videos of Real life experience:
http://vimeo.com/21688398
http://www.usunlimited.co.uk/index.htm
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Later in the afternoon several Marwari devotees entered the Master's room, where Rakhal
and M. also were seated.
A MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Sir, what is the way?"
Two ways of God-realization
MASTER: "There are two ways. One is the path of discrimination, the other is that of love.
Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and the unreal. God alone
is the real and permanent Substance; all else is illusory and impermanent. The magician
alone is real; his magic is illusory. This is discrimination.
"Discrimination and renunciation. Discrimination means to know the distinction between
the Real and the unreal. Renunciation means to have dispassion for the things of the world.
One cannot acquire them all of a sudden. They must be practised every day. One should
renounce 'woman and gold' mentally at first. Then, by the will of God, one can renounce it
both mentally and outwardly. It is impossible to ask the people of Calcutta to renounce all
for the sake of God. One has to tell them to renounce mentally.
Constant practice urged
"Through the discipline of constant practice one is able to give up attachment to 'woman
and gold'. That is what the Gita says. By practice one acquires uncommon power of mind.
Then one doesn't find it difficult to subdue the sense-organs and to bring anger, lust, and
the like under control. Such a man behaves like a tortoise, which, once it has tucked in its
limbs, never puts them out. You cannot make the tortoise put its limbs out again, though
you chop it to pieces with an axe."
MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Revered sir, you just mentioned two paths. What is the other
path?"
MASTER: "The path of bhakti, or zealous love of God. Weep for God in solitude, with a
restless soul, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Cry to your Mother Syama with a real
cry, O mind! And how can She hold Herself from you? "
MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Sir, what is the meaning of the worship of the Personal God?
And what is the meaning of God without form or attribute?"
MASTER: "As you recall your father by his photograph, so likewise the worship of the
image reveals in a flash the nature of Reality.
"Do you know what God with form is like? Like bubbles rising on an expanse of water,
various divine forms are seen to rise out of the Great akasa of Consciousness. The
Incarnation of God is one of these forms. The Primal Energy sports, as it were, through the
activities of a Divine Incarnation.
"What is there in mere scholarship? God can be attained by crying to Him with a longing
heart. There is no need to know many things.
"He who is an acharya has to know different things. One needs a sword and shield to kill
others; but to kill oneself, a needle or a nail-knife suffices.
"One ultimately discovers God by trying to know who this 'I' is. Is this 'I' the flesh, the
bones, the blood, or the marrow? Is it the mind or the buddhi? Analysing thus, you realize
at last that you are none of these. This is called the process of 'Neti, neti', 'Not this, not this'.
One can neither comprehend nor touch the Atman. It is without qualities or attributes.
"But, according to the path of devotion, God has attributes. To a devotee Krishna is Spirit,
His Abode is Spirit, and everything about Him is Spirit."
The Marwari devotees saluted the Master and took their leave.
At the approach of evening Sri Ramakrishna went out to look at the sacred river. The lamp
was lighted in his room. The Master chanted the hallowed name of the Divine Mother and
meditated on Her. Then the evening worship began in the various temples. The sound of
gongs, floating on the air, mingled with the murmuring voice of the river. Peace and
blessedness reigned everywhere.
Namaskar.
Friends,
The Essence of Sadhana is to discover the core in us and this can be done only if we rid ourselves of all sophistry and become utterly childlike.
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"It was now about half past nine in the evening. Surendra entertained the Master and the
devotees with a sumptuous feast. When it was time to take leave of their host, the Master,
the devotees, and Surendra entered the worship hall and stood before the image.
SURENDRA (to the Master): "No one has sung anything about the Divine Mother today."
MASTER (pointing to the image): "Ah! Look at the beauty of the hall. The light of the
Divine Mother seems to have lighted the whole place. Such a sight fills the heart with joy.
Grief and desire for pleasure disappear.
"But can one not see God as formless Reality? Of course one can But not if one has the
slightest trace of worldliness. The rishis of olden times renounced everything and then
contemplated Satchidananda, the Indivisible Brahman.
"The Brahmajnanis of modern times sing of God as 'immutable, homogeneous'. It sounds
very dry to me. It seems as if the singers themselves don't enjoy the sweetness of God's
Bliss. One doesn't want a refreshing drink made with sugar candy if one is satisfied with
mere coarse treacle.
"Just see how happy you are, looking at this image of the Deity. But those who always cry
after the formless Reality do not get anything. They realize nothing either inside or
outside."
The Master sang a song to the Divine Mother:
O Mother, ever blissful as Thou art,
Do not deprive Thy worthless child of bliss!
My mind knows nothing but Thy Lotus Feet.
The King of Death scowls at me terribly;
Tell me, Mother, what shall I say to him?
It was my heart's desire to sail my boat
Across the ocean of this mortal life,
O Durga, with Thy name upon my lips.
I never dreamt that Thou wouldst drown me here
In the dark waters of this shoreless sea.
Both day and night I swim among its waves,
Chanting Thy saving name; yet even so
There is no end, O Mother, to my grief.
If I am drowned this time, in such a plight,
No one will ever chant Thy name again.
Again he sang:
Repeat, O mind, my Mother Durga's hallowed name!
Whoever treads the path, repeating "Durga! Durga!",
Siva Himself protects with His almighty trident.
Thou art the day, O Mother! Thou art the dusk and the night.
Sometimes Thou art man, and sometimes woman art Thou.
Thou mayest even say to me: "Step aside! Go away!"
Yet I shall cling to Thee, O Durga! Unto Thy feet
As Thine anklets I shall cling, making their tinkling sound.
Mother, when as the Kite Thou soarest in the sky,
There, in the water beneath, as a minnow I shall be swimming;
Upon me Thou wilt pounce, and pierce me through with Thy claws.
Thus, when the breath of life forsakes me in Thy grip,
Do not deny me the shelter of Thy Lotus Feet!
The Master saluted the divine image. As he came down the steps, he called softly to
Rakhal: "Where are my shoes? Are they missing?"
As the Master got into the carriage, Surendra and the other devotees bowed down before
him. Then the carriage started for Dakshineswar. The moon still lighted the streets."
Namaskar.
Friends,
The Essence of Sadhana is to discover the core in us.This is only possible if we rid ourselves of all sophistry and become utterly childlike.
An Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"It was now about half past nine in the evening. Surendra entertained the Master and the
devotees with a sumptuous feast. When it was time to take leave of their host, the Master,
the devotees, and Surendra entered the worship hall and stood before the image.
SURENDRA (to the Master): "No one has sung anything about the Divine Mother today."
MASTER (pointing to the image): "Ah! Look at the beauty of the hall. The light of the
Divine Mother seems to have lighted the whole place. Such a sight fills the heart with joy.
Grief and desire for pleasure disappear.
"But can one not see God as formless Reality? Of course one can But not if one has the
slightest trace of worldliness. The rishis of olden times renounced everything and then
contemplated Satchidananda, the Indivisible Brahman.
"The Brahmajnanis of modern times sing of God as 'immutable, homogeneous'. It sounds
very dry to me. It seems as if the singers themselves don't enjoy the sweetness of God's
Bliss. One doesn't want a refreshing drink made with sugar candy if one is satisfied with
mere coarse treacle.
"Just see how happy you are, looking at this image of the Deity. But those who always cry
after the formless Reality do not get anything. They realize nothing either inside or
outside."
The Master sang a song to the Divine Mother:
O Mother, ever blissful as Thou art,
Do not deprive Thy worthless child of bliss!
My mind knows nothing but Thy Lotus Feet.
The King of Death scowls at me terribly;
Tell me, Mother, what shall I say to him?
It was my heart's desire to sail my boat
Across the ocean of this mortal life,
O Durga, with Thy name upon my lips.
I never dreamt that Thou wouldst drown me here
In the dark waters of this shoreless sea.
Both day and night I swim among its waves,
Chanting Thy saving name; yet even so
There is no end, O Mother, to my grief.
If I am drowned this time, in such a plight,
No one will ever chant Thy name again.
Again he sang:
Repeat, O mind, my Mother Durga's hallowed name!
Whoever treads the path, repeating "Durga! Durga!",
Siva Himself protects with His almighty trident.
Thou art the day, O Mother! Thou art the dusk and the night.
Sometimes Thou art man, and sometimes woman art Thou.
Thou mayest even say to me: "Step aside! Go away!"
Yet I shall cling to Thee, O Durga! Unto Thy feet
As Thine anklets I shall cling, making their tinkling sound.
Mother, when as the Kite Thou soarest in the sky,
There, in the water beneath, as a minnow I shall be swimming;
Upon me Thou wilt pounce, and pierce me through with Thy claws.
Thus, when the breath of life forsakes me in Thy grip,
Do not deny me the shelter of Thy Lotus Feet!
The Master saluted the divine image. As he came down the steps, he called softly to
Rakhal: "Where are my shoes? Are they missing?"
As the Master got into the carriage, Surendra and the other devotees bowed down before
him. Then the carriage started for Dakshineswar. The moon still lighted the streets."
Namaskar.
Ravi, You write clearly and your comments are well thought out.
Still I'd like less cut and paste and a little more detail about your daily sadhana.
Of course only answer if you're comfortable with my request.
hey jude,
Friend,Sorry for that repetition.I could not find the link to delete the same.The Copy and paste is only a convenience.I read the excerpts that I post here 3 or 4 times and enjoy every single line.These are shared here very much like a child that wants to show its toys that it has.
You ask about my sadhana.Hard to figure out because I do not follow any path or method-If I may say so,it is the way of faith and Love,if it makes sense.
It is this simple act of Faith and Love that God is our own and nothing more is required but to want him above all things.
I have not found a better companion than The Gospel of sri Ramakrishna to keep me rooted in this-Reading this wonderful work is my Sadhana.
I enjoy listening to the stories of all Great Saints and devotees-I enjoy listening to Good Music and Bhajans.I enjoy reading Devotional Hymns.
This is all there to it.
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru PaRiyalur - 609 309:
This temple is in a small village and one has to take a bus from Thanjavur to Nagapattinam. On the way to Nagapattinam, one should watch for the sign board Keezha Parasalur (the present name), get down from the bus and walk about 5 kms. One can use a bullock cart also.
This is one of the eight places of
Siva's heroic sports (Ashta Veerasthanams). Here Siva came as Veerabhadra and punished Dhaksha and all those who came to his yagna, because Paravti or DAkshaynai (Siva's wife) was not given proper respect when she had come.
The temple is quite ancient and has been mentioned by Tiru Jnana Sambandhar in his eleven verses, in Canon 1. This is maintained by Dharmapura Adheenam, a Saiva Math in Thanjavur District. Because of difficult reach, the devotees are far and few for this temple.
Siva is called Veerasthaneswarar. And Uma is called ILamkombanaiyAL, the one who is slim as a bamboo. The holy waters (tirtham) is Uttaravedi Tirtham. The temple tree
(Sthala Viruksham) are Bhilva tree and Jackfruit tree.
In the utsava moorthi (the metal image that is taken for procession) one can see Dhaksha at the feet of Siva.
******
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 1:
A wandering monk (sannyasi) was trying to clear his doubt: How to realize that all the world is God?"
Maharshi: If you make your outlook that of wisdom, you will find the world to be God. Without knowing the Supreme Spirit, (Brahman), how will you find His all pervasiveness?
*
Talks No. 111:
A Telugu gentleman asked about Brahma Bhavana.
Maharshi: NOT TO THINK, "I am Brahman" or "All is Brahman" is itself Jivanmukti.
He asked about inspired action.
Maharshi: Let activities go on. They do not affect the pure Self.
****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 116:
Devotee: Jiva is said to be bound by karma. Is it so?
Maharshi: Let karma enjoy its fruits. As long as you are the doer so long are you the enjoyer.
Devotee: How to get released from karma?
Maharshi: See whose karma it is. You will find you are not the doer. Then you will be free. This requires grace of God for which you should pray to Him, worship Him and meditate on Him.
The karma which takes place without effort, i.e. involuntary action, is not binding.
Even a Jnani is acting as see by his bodily movements. There can be no karma without effort or without intentions (sankalpas). Therefore there are sankalpas for all. They are of two kinds (1) one, binding -- bandha hetu and the other (2) mukti hetu - not binding. The former must be given up and the latter must be cultivated. There is no fruit without previous karma. No karma without previous sankalpa. Even mukti must be the result of effort so long as the sense of doership persists.
****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 201:
The Parsi ladies asked for an illustration to explain why the Self though ever present and most intimate, is not being realized.
Maharshi cited the stories of (1) Svankathabharanam katha - the story of the necklace, on the neck itself, not being detected; (2) Dasama - of the ten fools who counted only nine, each of them omitting to count himself. (3) the lion's cub brought up in a herd of goats. (4) Karna not knowing his real parentage and (5) the king's son brought up in a low class family.
.......
Devotee: What about bringing down divine consciousness from above?
Maharshi: As if the same is not already in the Heart? "O Arjuna, I am in the expanse of the Heart", says Sri Krishna. "He who is in the sun, is also in this man", says a mantra in the Upanishads. "The Kingdom of God is within", says the Bible. All are thus agreed that God is within, What is to be brought down? From where? Who is to bring what, and why?
Realization is only the removal of obstacles to the recognition of the eternal, immanent Reality. Reality is. It need not be taken from place to place.
Devotee: What about Aurobindo's claim to start from Self Realization and develop further?
Maharshi: Let us first see and then see.
.......
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 256:
A question was asked regarding the position of one whose Jnana is weak in the scheme of things. The doubt was if that manda jnani had stopped of kevala nirvikalps.
Maharshi: Kevala nirvikalpa happens even in the tanumanasi stage (of attenuated mind).
Devotee: The middling and superior Jnanis are said to be Jivanmuktas. Kevala nirvikalpa is in tanumanasa. Where does one whose Jnana is weak fit in?
Maharshi: He comes in sattvapatti (realization) -- whereas the middling and the superior ones come in asamsakti and padarthabhavani respectively. The division as dull, middling and superior is according to the momentum of prarabdha. If it is strong, he is weak; if it is middling, he middling too; if prarabdha is weak he is superior; if it is very weak he is in turyaga.
There is no difference in the samadhi state of the Jnana of the Jnanis. The classification is only from the standpoint of the observer.
Devotee: Is tanumanasi the same as mumukshutva?
Maharshi: No. The six qualities, discrimination, dispassion, and mumukshutva etc., precede subheccha. The first stage follows mumukshutva, then comes vicharana (search), then the tenuous mind. Direct perception is in sattvapatti
(realization).
There is no need to discuss similar points. Jivanmukti and Videhamukti
are differently described by different authorities; Videhamukti is sometimes said to occur even when the man is seen with a body. The fact that mukti is another name for Aham ('I').
The seven Jnana bhumikas (stages of knowledge) are:
1. Subeccha (desire for enlightenment);
2. Vicharana (hearing and reflection)
3. Tanumanasi (tenuous mind)
4. Sattvapatti ( Self Realization)
5. Asamsakti (non attachment)
6. Padarthabhava (absolute non perception of objects)
7. Turyoga (beyond words)
Those who have attained the last four Bhumikas are respectively, called Brahmavit, Brahmavidvara, Brahmavidvaraya and Brahmavidvarishta.
(See Viveka Chudamani of Sri Sankara for the Sanskrit terms)
*****
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 36:
nAm udal enRu eNNin alam nAm adhu
enRu eNNum adhu
nAm adhuvAi niRpathaRku nal thuNaiye
-Am enRum
nAm adhu enRu eNNuvathu En nAn
manidhan enRu eNumo
nAm adhuvAi niRkum adhanAl.
If we think 'We are the body', to 'think we are not'; 'we are That' -
is a good aid for us to abide as That. Why should we, for ever, think 'We are That'? Does a man think 'I am a man'? For, we are That.
The abidance as the Self, the Supreme Spirit, is, as has already been pointed out, the final goal. It is not an accomplishment of what has not been accomplished. It is the realization of the eternal Truth.
Those who have not realized their self nature, in other words, those
who identify themselves with their body-mind complexes may adopt the method of meditation. Their meditation may take the form: "We are not the body, etc., we are the Self." Such a technique is called partipaksha bhAvanA, thinking the contrary. The 'self idea' serves the purpose of removing the 'non-self-idea'. In order that the I-am-the-body conception may be destroyed, the yoga method asks us to cultivate the I-am-the-Self notion. Such practice is certainly
useful. But we should remember at the same time that the 'self idea' is not the Self, that I-am-the-
Self notion it not the Supreme Spirit. It is only where all ideas and notions cease that the Self is realized. And, the one who has realized the Self simply is the Self. Such a one has no need 'to think' that he is the Self. Sri Bhagavan explains this with an example which ought to be familiar to us, humans. A man does not go about saying, 'I am a man, I am a man'. He need not repeat that as a formula. He simply is a man.
The teaching is that while meditation is a useful auxiliary in the path to release, (vide Who am I?), it is not the direct means to release, the direct means is Atma Vichara (self inquiry). And in the case of one who has attained release there is no need for meditation at all. He has no mind; how can he meditate? Even to refer to him as a 'he' as an 'individual', is from our standpoint which is that of ignorance.
continued....
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 36:
continues....
Sri Bhagavan, in some other context, in Who am I? asks: Whether Rama needs a mirror to know that he is Rama?
It is mainly to negate the 'I am the body' idea notion - the poison of ignorance -- that utterances of Mahavakyas like 'Aham Brhamasmi (I am Brahman) and 'Ayam Atma Brahman' (this Atman is Brahman) are found in scriptures - as an antidote. They are helpful in removing the deep rooted idea of being or existence in gross and subtle bodies, the product of nescience. The moment the scriptural utterance
'I am Brahman' is heard, not knowing what 'Brahman' is, enquiring, Who am I?, thus practicing Atma Vichara and abiding as That, is the sadhana for a sincere aspirant of exemplary courage and mental strength.
Only those who lack such strength and resolution will take to repeating mentally or contemplating ocnstantly 'I am not this body, I am Brahman'. This being an action of the mind, who is there to reflect thus when the ego along with the mind is exterminated? And how?
KaNNudaiya VaLLalAr explains this with the help of an example:
kurangai ninaiyathu iru enRu
kooRath
thirumbi adhuve dhyanam -
varunkathai pol
nee SivamAi nil enRAn neengiyathu
vAi ninainthu
mAivaiyathu anRo malam.
- Yoga KazhaRRi 24 - Ozhivil
Odukkam.
A doctor advises a patient to take the prescribed medicine without thinking of a monkey. Thinking constantly that he should not think of a monkey makes the patient think of the monkey all the time so that it became his constant dhyana. When told 'be still as Siva' without any objective awareness, instead of remaining as That by annihilating the ego sense, repeating 'I am He; I am He' - is but the play of ego.
Soham bhavana is only for a seeker and not for the realized one.
"....I am a man...'The man is sin'. There was no man-sense in deep sleep.....'What is' remains."
- Talks No. 164.
******
R.Subramanian,
"A doctor advises a patient to take the prescribed medicine without thinking of a monkey. Thinking constantly that he should not think of a monkey makes the patient think of the monkey all the time so that it became his constant dhyana"
What type of seeker is referred to here?The Object for contemplation or meditation is not randomly chosen.The Object(or subject!)for contemplation is often chosen wherein the mind of the seeker is easily concentrated and absorbed in it.Not to think of the 'Monkey' is not an issue at all.If it becomes an issue,it simply means that the seeker is not sufficiently interested in the subject and is pursuing it out of external stimulus,or just skimming the surface.
May be contemplation or meditation is not the right thing for him and he should just engage in some useful and active physical activity.
The seeker has to prepare his mind for meditation by Viveka,Vairagya,titiksha,uparathi and above all Bhakti.Without this it will prove to be an unprofitable exercise,whether it is Meditation or self Enquiry or any other method or approach.
The seeker is paramount,not whether one employs self enquiry or meditation.
What more there need not be seperate time set aside for meditation.It can go on in the Background all the time.
It is as easy for the true seeker to stay focussed as it is for the worldly man to remain distracted.
I find this commentary to ULLadhu nARpadu a little dogmatic and a little sweeping in that direction.
Namaskar.
One man's food is another man's poison and one man's poison is another man's food.
If we see that essentially, it is just food, there would be no problem.
Nagaraj
Ravi,
You say your path is Love and Faith but to me all I see is scholarship. So next time round when I come to Madras invite us all to ur home for a meal and then we shall believe you :)
-Z
z,
Friend,You are invited for Breakfast&Lunch&Dinner.You may stay with us if that is comfortable for you.Please do let me know.My id is niveditahr@rediffmail.com
Namaskar.
Hi Ravi, 'These are shared here very much like a child that wants to show its toys that it has.'
It's all good. At some level the above statement rings a bell.
Friends,
We discussed meditation,self enquiry as means of sadhana.The essence of any sadhana is how not to get caught in the vortex of 'i' and 'mine' that forever takes us away from self or god and keeps us preoccupied in the repetitive thought and action patterns of the world process.
Is there any faculty that we have that if brought into play can counter the direction and inexhorable flow of thought and turn it inwards,and hopefully lead us back to God?
How to communicate(commune) with god or the self?Any communication is possible only when it is two way-We talk and He Listens & He talks and we listen.is it then possible to just jettison our 'Talk' and just 'keep listening'?
Friends,I wish to hear from you about the faculty called 'Listening'.What happens when I put myself into the listening mode?Do I stay as the 'I'?
Namaskar.
Bhagavan would say, "find out who is it that listens?", why worry about what happens? It is not what happens that is important but what is!
ironically, it takes mammoth effort to do something, and, takes no effort to not do anything!
Recognising the I that emerges out, then and there, with the remembrance of Naan Udiyaadulla Nilai, naam advaai ulla nilai. The no emergence of I itself is That. and being, is that, is being in communion.
Therefore, what ever we do to commune, is actually taking us away from it.
Everything, that we do, is done only after the emergence of I. Therefore, recognising this, then and there, and, abiding as that, again and again(practice), as and when it emerges is the way.
Nagaraj
Nagaraj,
Forget for a moment what Bhagavan says?When you are asking 'Who is it'?,What mode are you in?What is 'Thinking'?Is it Talking or Listening?Or are you 'Seeing'?!Or are you Touching?Or are you smelling?
Namaskar.
Ravi,
I am observing that, it does not matter if it is thinking or talking or listening or seeing or touching. The most important thing here is the recognision of the fact that the 'I' has emerged, and, only this alone is important, nothing else, and practicing remaining is alone is important.
After its emergnce, it may be anything, eating, touching, seeing, thinking, etc... there is no use to try and know what the emerged I does, except, the mere recognition of it, is alone is important!
Nagaraj
You asked "what is it"
It is not necessary to know what it is, Let it be what ever it is. People have said it to be consciousness, self, atma, brahman, etc... its not important what it is, but only the fact of recognising that something has risen above, which is why we are even able to ask what is it
directly recognising this then and there, and, not getting lost in its activities, remembering Naan Udiyaadulla Nilai, and, practicing it again and again is only of paramount importance.
Nagaraj
Nagaraj,
"The most important thing here is the recognision of the fact that the 'I' has emerged, and, only this alone is important, nothing else, and practicing remaining is alone is important."
What do you mean by 'Practising Remaining',especially as you say that the 'I' has emerged?
Is Listening an act?Hearing is.I hope you see the difference.
Thanks for your comments if you have reached your conclusion.
Namaskar.
Ravi,
Why to complicate and analyse if listening is act and hearing is an act? even to do this, the I emerges again! These are just playing with words, I am not such good in english! I was just saying the spirit of true recognition is more important over just anything else! If listening is not an act, if that is recognition, is fine!
We tend to get slightly carried away by words! instead of sorting out what words really mean, assimilating the essense is of highest importance more than what i say or you say or what others say. the words are less important than its essence.
56. All of the various means,
Having proved futile, have departed;
And the experience itself Has abandoned its object.
57. Thought, along with its intent,
Has died, Like a courageous warrior
In the cause of his master;
58. And understanding,
Ashamed of its own mode of knowing,
Has committed suicide.
The experience−abandoned to itself alone−
Is like one beaten and crippled in battle.
62. Of what use are words When even the experience Dissolves itself in this way?
63. How can words describe the supreme Reality Where even the subtlest speech itself disappears,
And there is left no trace of sound?
(Jnaneshwar)
Thanks
Nagaraj
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Caons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru maRaikAdu - (Vedaranyam) -
614 810
This temple is almost close to the
Bay of Bengal, in MayilAduthuRai -
Nagapattinam bus route. This has the unique distinction in all the first seven Saiva Canons of Tiru Jnana Sambandhar, Tiru Navukkarasara and Sundaramurti. MaRai means Vedas. AraNyam means jungle, kAdu in Tamizh.
Siva is called VedArnyeswarar and Uma is called Yazhaip pazhittha nAyaki, one who defeats Yazh, an ancient musical instrument, in her
sweet voice! The temple tree (Sthala Virukasham) is Vanni tree. The holy waters (Tirtham) are the sea and also a tank called Vedamirtham.
Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 32 verses, Tiru Navukkarasar in 50 verses and Sundarmuri in 50 verses.
This place is also called Aadhi Sethu, the ancient bridge, since Rama after killing Ravana is said to have come and prayed to Siva, after the war. Brahma and Sage Viswamitra have also come and prayed to Siva here. Sage Agasthya was given the darshan of Siva and Parvati in their marriage attire here, since the Sage was asked to stay back earlier for their wedding in Himalayas.
Vedas had closed the temple doors after Pujas to Siva here. When Tirunavukkarasar and Jnana Sambandha came to this place together, the former sang his songs to open the temple doors and after darshan by both, the latter sang his verses to have the doors closed. Again later Sundarmurti Swami had come along with CheramAn PerumAL Nayanar to have darshan here. There is a shrine for Sundaramurti and his consort Paravai here.
This is one of the seven places of Siva's dances. Here the dance of Nataraja is called HamsapAda Natanam, an elegant dance like the steps of swan!
This is also the birthplace of Saint Tayumanavar.
****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti (Liberation):
Talks No. 311:
A Swiss lady in the evening complains
that she gets headache if meditation be prolonged for some time.
Maharshi: If the meditator and meditation be understood to be the same, there will be no headache or similar complaints.
Devotee: But they are different. How shall we consider them to be the same.
Maharshi: That is due to your outlook. There is only one and there are no differences. On meditation, the relative consciousness will vanish. This is not annihilation; for the Absolute Consciousness arises...If you consider yourself to be the body there is some difficulty in understanding the statement. On the other hand if you know who you really are, the Kingdom of Heaven and all are included in your true Self. They are concepts arising after the ego has arisen. Drishtim jnanamayeem krtva pasyet Brahmamayam jagat (Direct your look within and make it absolute.) With that absolute awareness realized, look without and you will realize the universe to be not apart from the realized Absolute.
Because your outlook is externally directed you speak of a without. In that state you are advised to look within. This 'within' is relative to the 'without' you are seeking. In fact, the Self is neither without nor within.
Speaking of heaven one thinks of it as above or below, within or without, since one is accustomed to relative knowledge. One seeks only objective knowledge and hence these ideas. Really speaking, there is neither up nor down, neither in nor out. If they were real they must be present in dreamless deep sleep also. For what is real must be continuous and permanent. Did you feel 'in' or 'out' in sleep? Of course not.
Devotee: I do not remember.
Maharshi: If there was anything there that could be remembered. But you admit your existence then. The same Self is now speaking. The Self who was undifferentiated in sleep is differentiated in the present state, and sees the diversity. The Real Existence is the only One devoid of objective knowledge. That is Absolute Consciousness. That is the state of happiness, as admitted by all of us. That state must be brought about even in this waking state. It is called Jagrat Sushupti. That is mukti.
****
Nagaraj/Friends,
I do not initiate speculative discussions here.What part listening plays in sadhana?
You seem to be saying that it has very little or no part to play.Fine.
I will wait for responses from other friends.
Just to put things again in perspective-If we consider Sravana,Manana and Niddhidyasana-Does Sravana cease in Manana and Niddhidyasana or is it only deepened.Are Sravana ,Manana and Niddhidyasana distinct processes totally unrelated?
What is the state of the mind that listens?
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti (Liberation):
Talks No. 326:
In answer to a question by a long resident attendant, Sri Bhagavan
said:
"Everybody complains of the restlessness of the mind. Let the mind be found and then they will know. True, when a man sits down to meditate, thoughts rush up by dozens. the mind is only a bundle of thoughts. The attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts is unsuccessful.If one can by any means abide in the Self it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or meditation is prescribed. It is like giving a piece of chain to an elephant to hold in its trunk. The trunk of the elephant is usually restless. It puts it out in all directions when taken out in the streets of the town. If given a chain to carry the restlessness is checked. Similarly with the restless mind. If made to engage in japa or dhyana, other thoughts are warded off. And the mind concentrates on a single thought. It thus becomes peaceful. It does not mean that peace is gained without a prolonged struggle. The other thoughts must be fought out.
......
The bliss of peace is too good to be disturbed. A man fast asleep hates to be awakened and ordered to mind his business. The bliss of sleep is too enthralling to be sacrificed to the work born of thoughts. The thought free state is one's primal state and is full of bliss. Is it not miserable to leave such a state for the thought ridden and unhappy one... The Bliss of the Self is the single Being only.
.......
******
R.Subramanaian,
"The bliss of peace is too good to be disturbed. A man fast asleep hates to be awakened and ordered to mind his business. The bliss of sleep is too enthralling to be sacrificed to the work born of thoughts"
It is Pleasure and not Bliss or Peace;Had it been Bliss or Peace,it will not be disturbed and one will immediately wake up fresh as a Daisy.
We may know this from our own experience and we do not have to refer to any other authority to mediate.
Namaskar.
Ravi, Friends,
To me, Sravana Manana Nidhidhyasana is like this -
Milk becomes* Curd becomes* Butter becomes* Ghee goes in to fire (Knowledge-Tapas) and itself merges along with fire into what ever is.
It is neither distinct nor indistinct as it is the same in the end. It is related but also the same time unrelated to each other as curds sure is different from milk, and so on... but still it is the same.
*becomes - (there could be a better alternative word)
Salutations to Bhagavan
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, (Liberation):
Talks No. 349:
The following is from the translation of Sri S. Krishna of Sri Ramana Maharshi's Prefeace to His prose translation of Sri Sankara's Viveka Chudamani:
......
Learning Won't Do:
Sri Sankara opens the theme by observing that it is hard indeed to attain human birth, and one should, having attained it, strive for the realization of the bliss of liberation, which is verily the nature of one's Being. By Jnana or Knowledge alone is this bliss is reaalized and the Jnana is achieved only through Vichara or steady enquiry. In order to know this method of inquiry, says Sri Sankara, one should seek the favor of a Guru, and proceeds to describe the qualities of the Guru and his sishya and how the latter should approach and serve his master. He further emphasizes that in order to realize the bliss of liberation one's own individual effort is an essential factor. Mere book learning never yields this bliss which can be realized only through inquiry or Vichara, which consists of Sravana, or devoted attention to the precepts of the Guru, Manana, or deep contemplation and Nididhyasana or the cultivation of steady poise in the Self.
......
The Beatitude: The world of name and form is but an adjunct of Sat or Brahman, and being not different from it is rejected as such and is affirmed as nothing else but Brahman. The instruction by the Guru to the disciple of the Mahavakya, Tat tvam asi, which declares the identity of the Self and the Supreme, is Upadesa. The disciple is then enjoined to remain in the beatitude of Aham-Brahmasmi -- 'I' the Absolute. Nevertheless the old tendencies of the mind sprout up thick and strong and form an obstruction to the state of beatitude. These tendencies are threefold and egoism, which is their root, flourishes in the externalized and differentiating consciousness caused by the forces of Viksepa or dissiplation (due to rajas) and Avarana of envelopment (due to tamas).
Churning the mind: To install the mind firmly in the heart until these forces are destroyed and to awaken with unswerving, ceaseless vigilance and is expressed by the dicta, Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman) and Brahmaivaham (Brahman
alone am I) is termed nididhyasana or atmanusandhanam i.e constancy in the Self. This is otherwise called Bhakti, Yoga and Dhyana.
Atmanusandhanam has been likened to the churning the crowd to draw forth butter, the mind being compared to the churning rod, the heart to the curd and the practice of constancy in the Self to the process of churning. Just as by churning the curd butter is extracted and by friction fire is kindled, even even so, by unswerving vigilant constancy in the Self, ceaseless like unbroken filamentary flow of oil, is generated the natural or changeless trance or nirvikalpa samadhi, which readily and spontaneously yields that direct, immediate, unobstructed and universal perception of Brahman, which is at once, Knowledge and Experience and which transcends time and space.
Limitless Bliss: This is Self Realization; and thereby is cut asunder the knot of the Heart....All doubts are dispelled and the bondage of karma is severed.
........
******
Dear Ravi,
The bliss of peace is too good to be disturbed. A man fast asleep hates to be awakened and ordered to mind his business. The bliss of sleep is too
enthralling....
The above is from Talks No. 326. Sri Munagala Venkataramaiah has rendered Sri Bhagavan's words in
English and he has used the phrase 'bliss of sleep'. I do not know what Sri Bhagavan used to indicate this in Tamizh. There is no corresponding entry in Tamizh version of Talks, (No. 326) that is, Bhagavad Vachanamritam. Since deep sleep is called the state in which a man is in Anandamaya kosam, Sri Bhagavan might have used the word Anandam which Munagala has translated as Bliss. For deep sleep state, Sri Bhagavan also used the word Sukham in Who am I?
Why don't wake up as Daisy? A Jnani who has no vasanas wakes up from sleep fresh as daisy. That is why when Paramacharya woke up in the very early morning, people would wait to see him first and this is called Siva Darsanam. Because Acharya was in the Bliss of Sleep.
We are not; because of vasanas; or bad dreams and nightmares. The bliss is corrupted due to vasanas. That is why, when we wake up, we the ordinary mortals wake up with a ghost like face!
Subramanian. R
Dear Ravi,
Sivoham, I shall be Siva is called Soham bhavana. This is during sadhana, when the seeker meditates I shall be Siva.
Sivoham = Sivam Aven bhavana. (Tamizh dictionary of Vedanta words).
This is a bhavana keeping Siva as an objective reality. This is also in the state of Jivabodham. Jiva keeps a bhavana to 'become' Sivam.
Since this is due to ego, in the self inquiry where the ego has to be annihilated, this meditation is also not recommended. For self inquiry, even this bhavana should go. But if one continues to keep this bhavana, it is as difficult as taking medicine without thinking of monkey.
The Ozhivl Odukkam verse means only this.
Frequent reminders of what is forgotten by inadvertence may be helpful for aspirants who at times
slip from their state of abidance as That, to support the earlier abidance. But repetition of this endlessly will not station one in the Self. Nor will it confer him the status of a Mukta.
Subramanian. R
R.Subramanaian,
"Sivoham, I shall be Siva is called Soham bhavana. This is during sadhana, when the seeker meditates I shall be Siva."
What a mess we have made of this!Is it something like I will be 'Rajnikant' or "amitabh Bacchan'?!
It just means that 'My essence is sivam-or pure awareness'.If the 'I' is unreal why cannot it be dropped by a counter thought recollecting one's true nature.What is the need to enquire?
Please do not quote Bhagavan or any other sage.Think over and come up with your response.
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 359:
At about 7.30 a.m. Sri Bhagavan was climbing up the Hill after breakfast. Padananda went and prostrated, stood up and said, 'All right, I have had darsan..I shall return.' Sri Bhagavan smilingly asked: 'Whose darsan? Why don't you say that you gave darsan to me?'
At about 9 a.m. a devotee from Poona (Mr. Parkhi) saluted Sri Bhagavan and read out his Ashtaka praying to Sri Bhagavan for Grace.
The piece finishes with a prayer for quick liberation (jhatiti mukti) and the devotee emphasized it.
Maharshi: Mukti i.e. liberation, is not to be gained hereafter. It is there for ever, here and now.
Devotee: I agree. But I do not experience it.
Maharshi: The experience is here and now. One cannot deny one's own self.
Devotee: That means existence and not happiness.
Maharshi: Existence = Happiness =
Being. The word Mukti is so provoking. Why should one seek it? He believes that there is bondage and therefore seeks liberation. But the fact is that there is no
bondage but only liberation. Why call it by a name and seek it?
Devotee: True - but we are ignorant.
Maharshi: Yes. Only remove ignorance is there and that is all
there to be done.
****
R.Subramanian/Friends,
God Realization or Self Realization is not the Result of Self Effort although effort is necessary.
Self effort can take us to the point where we can open ourselves to the Divine Grace which is ever present.It is the Divine Grace that does the sadhana for us and removes Ignorance.
To say that only a particular approach or method will only result in Self Realization and other methods will not is just a Dogmatic Statement with no Truth behind it.It may give the snug feeling that one is privileged in pursuing something exclusive.All such ideas are misleading and counterproductive.
Only certain broad guidelines can be laid out which are helpful for seekers,beyond that the Path is pathless where the traveler has to
feel his way guided by providence.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Sivoham would rather be I shall be Sivam, than I shall be Siva. Sivam is Consciousness-Bliss-Existence. But people also translate it as I shall be Siva. It does not mean I shall be Siva but really I shall be Sivam.
When Sri Sankara in his Dasa Sloki completes each verse as Siva Kevaloaham, Siva kevaloaham.
The translation of the second part of verse 2, for example is, "Nor do I stand in need of the various processes of Yoga like dharana and dhyana enjoined on ordinary sadhakas, as I have realized My Atmanhood on the cessation of the feeling of 'I' and "mine" associated with the non-Atman.
Again in Nirvana Shatkam, Sri Sankara completes each verse as
Sivoham, Sivoham. The transaltor
renders it as (in Verse 5) "It is that is of the form of Siva, the essence of knowledge and beatitude.
I shall be Siva or I shall be Sivam
- both are used to mean Sivoham bhavana.
What Sri Bhagavan stresses in Verse 36, of Ulladu Narpadu, is that this 'I am Brahman' or 'this Atman is Brhaman' is a good support for removal ignorance., But practicing Atma Vichara inquiring Who am I? and abiding as That, is the sadhana for a sincere aspirant of exemplary courage and mental strength.
What is important is the Grace of the guru. The grace of guru or god will make good the lack of adequate sadhana. Sri Bhagavan has also mentioned this in more than one conversation.
Whether it is simple meditation or deep atma vichara, grace has a prominent role. 'aruLum vendume" says Sri Bhagavan in Atma Vidya Kirtanam. Saint Manikkavachagar says in Tiruvachakam, Tiruvecharavu, removing the objective consciousness, Verse 10).
What tapas did I do? I simply chanted Sivanaya Namah. My Lord Sivaperuman came on His own and entered my Heart, He is sweet like honey and nectar. I shall shun this fleshy body and life....
*
My comments on Ulladu Narpadu are not my own. Whether it is 'cut and paste or scissor and slice in' I do not know, but I give them as they were written by great devotees like Sri Sadhu Om, Smt. Kanakammal and Dr. T.M.P. Mahadevan. Again Talks references are all from the book of Munagala. In both the cases, there could be some translation inaccuracies or inadequacies. But even to find fault with what Maharshi said (of course He said in Tamizh) is to miss the wood for the trees.
Let us eat the fruit and not count
the leaves.
I am pained that this sort fault finding on minor matters (how could there be bliss of sleep? if there is bliss in sleep we shall wake up as Daisy...) is often on the rise now.
Subramanian. R
Dear Ravi,
Jnanis when they wake up in the early morning, people wait to see him coming out of his shed as in the case of Paramacharya. I have seen him once in an early morning. It is called Siva Darsanam. When Jnanis wake up they really wake up like daisies, because they have no vasanas. Their sleep is really a blissful sleep and bliss pervades the surroundings while waking up.
Since we, ordinary mortals, do not have such sleep without vasanas deep inside, or nightmares and other dreams, when we wake up, the faces would appear as those of ghosts!
So there could really be blissful sleep in case of Jnanis. For others also it is blissful sleep in the sense that at least mind/ego is not there to play its part of havoc.
Subramanian. R
Dear Ravi,
Your mention about the major role of Grace is correct and Sri Bhagavan also has mentioned it in many conversations and also in Atma Vidya Kirtanam. I have indicated Saint Manikkavachagar's poem in one of the recent comments.
Subramanian. R
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 362:
Mr. Subbaramaiah, a college professor from Nellore, asked about Mukti.
Maharshi: All questions relating to Mukti are inadmissible. Because Mukti means release from bondage which implies the present existence of bondage. There is no bondage and therefore no Mukti either.
Devotee: The Sastras speak of it and its grades.
Maharshi: The Sastras are not meant for the wise because they are do not need them. The ignorant do not want them. Only the mumukshus (those who are desirous of release) look up the Sastras. That means that Sastras are neither for wisdom nor for ignorance.
Devotee: Vasishta is said to be a Jivanmukta whereas Janaka was a Videhamukta.
Maharshi: Why speak of Vasishta or Janaka? What about oneself?
......
Sri Bhagavan further said:
1. Some say that Jnana and Upasana are the two wings with which to fly to Mukti. What is Jnana? What is Upasana? Jnana is ever present. This is the ultimate goal also. When an effort is made the effort is called Upasana. When it is effortless it is Jnana, which is the same as Mukti.
......
Another said that Ganapati Muni used to say that he could even go to Indraloka and say what Indra was doing but he could not go within and find the "I". Sri Bhagavan added that Ganapati Muni used to say that it was easy to move forward but impossible to move backward. Then Sri Bhagavan remarked: However far one goes there, he is. Where is moving backward? The same truth is contained in the mantra in Isa-Upanishad.
......
****
The predominant part of
AruL, Grace, in liberation:
Saint Manikkavachagar says in TiruvechaRavu, Tiruvachakam, Verse 10:
nAneyo davam seithen? Sivaya Nama
enap peRRen,
thenAi in amudhamumAi thithikkum
Siva peruman
thaNe vandhu eandhuLLam pugunthu
adiyeRku aruL seithAn
oonArum yuir vAzhkai oruthanRe
veRuthidave.
What tapas did do? I simply chanted Sivaya Namah. My Lord, Sivaperuman came on His own and entered my Heart and He is sweet like honey and nectar. He has made me shun this fleshy body and my soul....
Here in the case of Saint, the AruL, grace, had a major role in realization.
****
R.Subramanaian,
"I am pained that this sort fault finding on minor matters (how could there be bliss of sleep? if there is bliss in sleep we shall wake up as Daisy...) is often on the rise now."
Please do not misunderstand my questionings here. I have raised the question on 'What is posted'.
I have questioned the State of sleep and it certainly is not a more blessed state than Wakefulness.
Sri Bhagavan is only making use of an experience(Sleep) familiar to one and all in Driving home the point that all that one holds dear in the Waking state is left behind in sleep most willingly and one enjoys such a state.
In as much as this is possible in the Sleep state,it is definitely possible to do much better in the waking State by getting to the Root of the problem,the sense of 'I' and 'mine' that arises with waking.If through 'Self Enquiry' this sense is inquired into,it will be eventually be perceived as non existent and Peace and Bliss which are inherent in our Being experienced.
This Peace and Bliss can never be compared with the Pleasure that is experienced in Sleep.This is not a Trivial point for me.This is how I understand this.
You have mentioned that in sleep,the mind is in anandamaya Kosha-Mind as it is termed in vedic parlance is always Manomaya Kosha only whether one is awake,Dreaming or in sleep.
Please do not take the discussions here in a personal sense.
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 367:
A Marathi lady, a casual visitor then taking leave, was almost on the point of bursting into tears; she asked: I know that Mukti is impossible in one life. Still may I not have peace of mind in this life?
Maharshi looked at her very kindly and said smiling softly: Life and all else are Brahman alone. Brahman is here and now. Investigate.
Devotee: I am practicing meditation for a number of years. Yet my mind is not steady and cannot be brought to bear on meditation.
Again, Maharshi looked steadily at her and said: "Do it now and all will be right.:
*****
Dear Ravi,
Munagala has used the phrase 'bliss of sleep' and you can take it that what Sri Bhagavan really meant is 'pleasure of sleep'. There is no corresponding Tamizh version of this Talk, we do not know what exacltly the word that Sri Bhagavan used. Sri Bhagavan has used sukham in nAn yAr.
****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 383:
Swami Lokesananda, a Sannyasi, asked Sri Bhagavan: Is there prarabdha for a jivanmukta?
Maharshi: Who is the questioner? From whom does the question proceed? Is it a jivanmukta who is asking?
Devotee: No. I am not a Mukta as yet.
Maharshi: Then why not let the jivanmukta ask the question for himself?
Devotee: The doubt is for me.
Maharshi: Quite so. The Ajnani has doubt but not a Jnani.
Devotee: According to the creed that there is no creation (ajata vada), the explanations of Sri Bhagavan are faultless; but are they admissible in other schools?
Maharshi: There are three methods of approach in Advaita.
1. Ajata vada.
2. Drishti Srishti vada.
3. Srishti Drishti vada
(Sri Bhagavan explains the three here; but as this has been already given by me in one of the recent posts, it is not repeated.)
Sri Bhagavan:
......
The scriptures say that Jnana is the fire which burns away all karma (sarvakarma). Sarva is interpreted here in two ways. 1. to include prarabdha and 2 to exclude prarabdha.
........
With a Jnani the mind is surmised. He has though already transcended the mind. Because of his apparent activity, the mind has to be inferred in his case, and that mind is not fertile like that of an ajnani. Hence it is said that a Jnani's mind is Brahman. Brahman is certainly no other than the Jnani's mind. The vasanas cannot bear fruit in that soil. His mind is barren, free from all vasanas. etc.,
However, since prarabdha was conceded in his case, vasanas also must be supposed to exist. If they exist they are only for enjoyment (bhogahetu). That is to say, actions bear twofold fruits, the one for enjoyment of their fruits and the other leaving an impress on the mind in the form of samskaras for subsequent manifestations in future births. The Jnani's mind being barren cannot entertain seeds of karma. His vasanas are simply exhaust themselves by activities ending in enjoyment only (bhogahetu karma). In fact, his karma is seen only from the ajnani's stand point. He remains actionless only. He is not aware of the body as being apart from the Self. How can there be liberation or bondage for him? He is beyond both. He is not bound by karma, either now or ever. There is no jivanmukta or videhamukta according to him.
Devotee: From all this it looks as if a Jnani who has scorched all the vasanas, is the best and that he would remain inactive like a stock
or stone.
Maharshi: No. Not necessarily. Vasanas do not affect him. Is it not itself a Vasana that one remains like a stock or stone? Sahaja is the state.
*****
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 37:
sAdhkathile duvidam sAddiyathil
adduvidam
odukinRa vAdam adhum uNmaiyalla -
AdaravAith
tAn tedum kAlum tanai adaintha
kAlattum
taN dasaman anRi yAr tAn?
That doctrine is not true which says, 'There is duality in practice and non duality in attainment'. Who else is he but the tenth man, both while anxiously searching for himself and after attaining himself?
It is usual to distinguish between the empirical (VyavahArika) standpoint and the standpoint of the absolute truth (paramArthika),
and to say that the pluralistic world of our ordinary experience is relatively real, thought it ceases to be real when the absolute truth comes to be realized. All striving for realization, all practices, is in the world of plurality. In that world there is the distinction between the finite jiva and the infinite Brahman. It is only when the jiva becomes one with Brahman by realizing it that the duality disappears. So, in the world of practice, sadhana, there is duality; in the state of realization there is non duality.
To argue in the above manner is not sound. There is no double truth. What is called empirical reality is no reality at all. It is not as if the world is real up to the point of realization and thereafter it disappears. Even when the world appears, it is not real. From the standpoint of the Absolute Truth, there is no empirical world. The rope does not cease to be rope when it is mistaken for a snake; nor is that the snake real, even when it appears.
Another illustration is provided by the story of the ten travelers. After crossing a swollen river, the travelers start counting themselves imagining that one of them is lost in the floods. The tenth man is there even when there is a search for him, as he is there when he is discovered.
Another example in the necklace on one's neck. The necklace has not been lost anywhere. The wearer searches for it all over the place and then finds it on her own neck. The necklace is always there. At no point of time it is 'lost' and after search it is 'discovered.'.
Non duality is the supreme truth. It is not something which is made or produced by sadhana. Even when there is sadhana there is non duality. Advaita is not what-is-yet -to-be; it is ever IS.
continued....
R.Subramanian/Friends,
Heard this amusing incident from a Talk by Nochur Venkatraman.
He mentioned how young children accompanied their Grandparents to his talks.They will be playing and be themselves.Occasionally they will test the patience of the Elders by their Pranks.One of the Elders became angry and scolded a young one who immediately wielded Bhagavan's Brahmastra by asking the elder -Find out who is angry!That Elder was nonplussed.
A Swamiji who witnessed this asked the kid-Who are you?The Kid answered nonplussed-I am Atma!The Swamiji did not venture any further questions!
Nochur Venkatraman pointed out how children are quite astute and listen to the talks in a spontaneous manner.
Namaskar.
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 37:
continues....
Dwaitins are those who maintain that as duality persists in all the states of ignorance, sadhana and deliverance, the duality is real. What shines as one on realization appears as two at the time of sadhana, is an argument forwarded as a conciliatory measure. The direct and non-meditated experience of Jnanis disproves both these arguments. The former creed is also explicitly included by the use of the words, 'odukinRa vAdam adum'. What is true must be true at all times and at all places. Truth is beyond time, place and change. Anything that is subject to time, place and change cannot be the truth.
Saint Tayumanavar says in his Udal PoyyuRavu, 16:
apporuLum AnmAvum AraNa nool
sonnapadi
thappilAc chit onRAm jAthiyinAl
- eppadium
theriR duvidam sivakamae sollu
nittai
yArumidathu athuvidamAm.
As per Vedas and Agamas, Brhaman and Jiva (AnmA) in their natural state is only the single blemishless Chit. Sivakama Nishtai when practiced, one realizes the advaitam and that advaitam too is the same present state which is called dvaitam.
Sri Muruganar also in his Virutti urai for Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai, Verse 101 says:
ambuvil Ali pol anburu unil enai
anbAk karaitharuL Arunachala...
As a halistone, formed of water, dissolves back in water as water, dissolve me in Thy form of supreme Love. Love and gracious govern me,
Arunachala!
Here Muruganar describes 'karaithal' - 'dissolving' only the duality which has come about due to ego and its kalpanas.
Verse 37 concluded.
Dear Ravi,
Nochur has said this story about some
children in Palakkad satsangh. There is no need to understand Vedanta, by writing notes, or even hearing intellectually. What is needed is to keep the heart open so that the message would go directly. Keeping the heart open is only sraddha. Even while sleeping, the message would go in, provided there is no 'I' to put the bar in between. Nochur used to quote Prahlada. When Narada was telling bhagavat-vishayam, to Prahlada's mother, who was pregnant with Prahlada inside the womb, not even a fully grown baby. The mother had slept during the discourse of Narada. But the jiva inside the womb was quite agile and received the message in full.
One Azhwar says about Prahlada -
karuvile tiru udaiyAn... he got all treasures while he was even in womb!
****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 498:
Sri Bhagavan said: suo moto.
"People often say that a mukta purusha should go out and preach his message to the people. They argue, how can anyone be a mukta so long as there is misery by his side? True. But who is a mukta? Does he see misery beside him? They want to determine the state of a mukta without themselves realizing the state. From the standpoint of of the mukta there contention amounts to this: a man dream a dream in which he finds several persons. On waking up, he asks, 'Have the dream individuals also wakened? It is ridiculous.
Again a good man says, "It does not matter even if I do not get mukti. Or let me be the last man to get it so that I shall help all others to be muktas before I am one." It is all very good. Imagine a dreamer saying, "May all these people wake up before I do". The dreamer is no more absurd than the amiable philosopher aforesaid."
*****
Friends,
The Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi is indeed a work for which we need to be Greatful to Sri Munagala Venkatramiah.Yet there are some passages that,atleast to me seem inconsistent with What Sri Bhagavan taught.
This is one such Talk:
Talk 141.
The same gentleman later, after quoting a verse from Kaivalya, asked:
“Can jnana be lost after being once attained?”
M.: Jnana, once revealed, takes time to steady itself. The Self is certainly
within the direct experience of everyone, but not as one imagines
it to be. It is only as it is. This Experience is samadhi. Just as fire
remains without scorching against incantations or other devices but
scorches otherwise, so also the Self remains veiled by vasanas and
reveals itself when there are no vasanas. Owing to the fluctuation
of the vasanas, jnana takes time to steady itself. Unsteady jnana is
not enough to check rebirths. Jnana cannot remain unshaken side by
side with vasanas. True, that in the proximity of a great master, the
vasanas will cease to be active, the mind becomes still and samadhi
results, similar to fire not scorching because of other devices. Thus
the disciple gains true knowledge and right experience in the presence
of the master. To remain unshaken in it further efforts are necessary.
He will know it to be his real Being and thus be liberated even while
alive. Samadhi with closed eyes is certainly good, but one must go
further until it is realised that actionlessness and action are not hostile
to each other. Fear of loss of samadhi while one is active is the sign
of ignorance. Samadhi must be the natural life of everyone.
There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness. Until it is
realised effort is necessary. After tasting such Bliss, even once
one will repeatedly try to regain it. Having once experienced the
Bliss of Peace no one would like to be out of it or engaged himself
otherwise. It is as difficult for a Jnani to engage in thoughts as it
is for an ajnani to be free from thought.
The common man says that he does not know himself; he thinks
many thoughts and cannot remain without thinking.
Any kind of activity does not affect a Jnani; his mind remains ever
in eternal Peace."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please refer to the ideas marked bold.
What is Jnana?Can one oscillate between jnana and ajnana?If Jnana is a state where birth is inconceivable,where is the probability of rebirth of a jnani with Vasanas?Just what are these vasanas,where do they attach themselves?
To me,these seem to be totally inconsistent,in the sense can a man awakened fall back into dream?
I am not at all sure what Sri Bhagavan would have actually said.
Namaskar.
Friends,
Here is a wonderful little gem from The Talks from Sri Ramana maharshi:
Talk 50.
Sri Bhagavan read out, from the Prabuddha Bharata, Kabir’s saying
that all know that the drop merges into the ocean but few know that
the ocean merges into the drop. This is para bhakti, said he.
An Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Sometimes God acts as the magnet and the devotee as the needle. God attracts the devotee
to Himself. Again, sometimes the devotee acts as the magnet and God as the needle. Such
is the attraction of the devotee that God comes to him, unable to resist his love."
Namaskar.
Friends,
In this excerpt from Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi ,Sri Bhagavan talks about Bhakti and Vichara:
Talk 154:
"When asked about
the efficacy of bhakti, Sri Bhagavan said: So long as there is vibhakti,
there must be bhakti. So long as there is viyoga, there must be yoga.
So long as there is duality, there must be God and devotee. Similarly
also in vichara. So long as there is vichara, there is duality too, But
merging into the Source there is unity only. So it is with bhakti too.
Realising the God of devotion, there will be unity only. God too is thought
of in and by the Self. So God is identical with the Self. If one is told to have bhakti for God and he does so straightaway, it is all right. But there is
another kind of man who turns round and says: “There are two, I and
God. Before knowing the far-off God, let me know the more immediate
and intimate ‘I’.” For him the vichara-marga has to be taught. There
is in fact no difference between bhakti and vichara."
Namaskar.
Friends,
I warmly recommend 'Be as you are'-The Teachings of Sri Ramana maharshi by David Godman.
The Teachings are culled from different sources and organized neatly.It puts the teachings in a proper perspective.
I have posted from Talks where Sri Bhagavan explains how Vichara and Bhakti lead to the same thing.
The seeker is required to go inwards ,behind the curtain as it were,and rest in Being or God-eventually this is self surrender.Self Surrender(saranagathi is the right term)is not the contrived trick of the mind which says-'Oh!I am unable to do this,or I am unable to cope up with,so let me surrender'.It is a state of perfect trust and relaxed ease(sukam).
I frequently encounter those who think 'self Enquiry' is unique and this only can kill the vasanas,etc.They need to go further and understand how vasanas are 'destroyed'(so to say).What is meant by the 'Destruction' of Vasana?It just means that the 'outgoing' tendency of the mind is tamed,and the mind simply rests in the Being.Devotion is nothing but state of the mind where the devotee is attracted and rests in God or being in Love and Peace.When it rests thus all the outgoing tendencies of the mind get annihilated.
Unlike the person who does Self Enquiry,the Bhakta does not bother about Thoughts and to whom Thoughts come etc,etc.He is simply attracted to God in a spontaneous way(No how or why here!)and rests his mind in God.
Namaskar.
Siva Temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru veezhimizhalai - 609 505.
This is a temple which is about 9 kms from KuthAlam (not KuRRalam falls) and can be reached by bus from MayilAduthuRai.
Siva is called Veezhiya Nathar, one who was given eye as flower by devotees. Uma is called Sundara Kuchambikai, the one with beautiful breasts. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Veezhi tree (?). The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Vishnu Tirtham. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar mentions this temples in 154 verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 83 verses. Sundarmurti mentions it in 10 verses.
It is a large temple with special nicely carved metal icons of gods and goddesses that are taken for procession outside the temple. Vishnu when doing puja to Siva with lotus flowers, and when he found that one flower was short for 1008, he plucked his own eye and offered it to Siva in lieu of the shortfall. And Siva pleased with Vishnu's act, gave Chakra or Disc to him as a weapon. This puranic story is also mentioned by Saint Manikkavachagar in Tiruvachakam, in
Tiru ThoL Nokkam, verse 10:
Pangayam Ayiram poovinilor
pookuRaiyath
thankaN idantharan sevadimel
chattalume
Sankaran embirRan chakkaram mARku
aruLiyavARu
engum paravi nAm thoL nokkam AdAmo.
The temple is visited by devotees who have obstacles for conducting weddings of their daughters and sons. And when relieved of the obstacle, they bring the newly married couples for darshan.
Like "three thousand brahmins"
of Tillai, Chidambaram, the lineage of 'a hundred brahmins' of this place is also quite famous.
****
Swami Rajeswarananda Liberation Day -
10.12.2012.
Swami Rajeswarananda, born in Madras, got his name as a Sannyasi of the Ramakrishna Order. He edited The Call Divine during the first twelve years.
He authored Erase the Ego and Teachings.
He says:
Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi was the personification of emancipation, the source of supreme peace, and the boundless ocean of freedom. His solemn presence lifted us beyond our body and mind to our true Self.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 449.
After Mr. Grant Duff had left, there was some reference to his visit to the Asramam. Sri Bhagavan remarked, "Some Sakti draws people from all parts of the globe to this center." A devotee aptly said, 'That Sakti is not different from Sri Bhagavan.' Sri Bhagavan immeditately remarked: What Sakti drew me here originally? The same Sakti draws all others as well.
Sri Bhagavan then narrated the stories of a devotee of Rama, a queen and her husband, Thondaradipodi Azhwar and Kaduveli Siddhar and said how Kaduveli Siddhar proved himself an unswerving Jnani. One should not be deceived by the external appearance of a Jnani. Thus Vedanta Chudamani Verse 181 says:
Although a Jivanmukta associated with body may, owing to his prarabdha appear to lapse into ignorance or wisdom, yet he is only pure like ether, which is always itself clear, whether covered by dense clouds or cleared of clouds by currents of air. He always revels in the Self alone, like a loving wife taking pleasure with her husband alone, though she attends on him with things obtained from others (by way of fortune, as determined by her prarabdha). Though he remains silent like one devoid of learning, yet his supineness is due to the implicit duality of the Vaikhari vak (spoken words) of the Vedas. His silence is the highest expression of the realized non duality, which is after all the true content of the Vedas. Though he instructs his disciples, yet he does not pose as a teacher, in the full conviction that the teacher and disciple are mere conventions born of maya, and so he continues to utter words like akasavani; if one the other hand he mutters words incoherently like a lunatic, it is because his experience is inexpressible like the words of lovers in embrace. If his words are many and fluent like those of an orator, they represent the recollection of his experience, since he is the unmoving non dual One without any desire awaiting fulfillment. Although he may appear grief stricken like any other man in bereavement, yet he evinces just
the right love of and pity for the senses which he earlier controlled before he realized that they were mere instruments and manifestations of the Supreme Being. When he seems keenly interested in the wonders of the world, he is only ridiculing then ignorance born of superimposition,. If he appears indulging in sexual pleasures, he must be taken to enjoy the ever lasting inherent Bliss of the Self, which, divided Itself into the Individual Self and the Universal Self, delights in their reunion to regain the original Nature.
......
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 456:
An article in The Vision magazine, written by Swami Ramdas was read out. Though Swami Ramdas has spoken about the greatness of self realized souls in the article, he has also said that continued stay at their feet would stifle the growth of the devotees/disciples and prevent their own self realization.
The article was read out to Sri Bhagavan. He listened and remained silent. He was requested to say of contact with saints could be a danger. Sri Bhagavan then quoted a Tamizh stanza which says that contact with Guru should be kept up till Videhamukti (being disembodied). Again He asked where is the Satpurusha? He is within. Then He quoted another stanza meaning:
"O Master! Who has been within me in all my past incarnations and
Who manifested as a human being, only to speak the language understood by me and lead me."
(Kaivalya Navaneetam)
****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 472:
.......
.......
Another visitor from Rawalpindi asked: The Atman is formless. How shall I concentrate on It?
Maharshi: Leave alone the Atman which you say is formless or intangible. Mind is tangible to you. Hold the mind and it will do.
Devotee: Mind itself is very subtle and is also the same as the Atman. How shall we know the nature of the mind? You have said that all supports are useless. What should be our stand then?
Maharshi: Where does your mind stand?
Devotee: Where does it stand?
Maharshi: Ask the mind itself.
Devotee: I ask you now. Should we concentrate on the mind then?
Maharshi: Umm...!
Devotee: But what is the nature of the mind? It is formless. The problem is perplexing?
Maharshi: Why are you perplexed?
Devotee: The Sastras want us to concentrate and I cannot do so.
Maharshi: Through what Sastras have we known our existence?
Devotee: It is a matter of experience. But I want to concentrate.
Maharshi: Be free from thoughts. Do not hold on to anything. They do not hold you. Be yourself.
Devote: I do not understand as to where I take my stand and concentrate. Can I meditate on my mind?
Maharshi: Whose mind?
Devotee: My own mind?
Maharshi: Who are you? The question now resolves itself all right.
In the afternoon, the visitor again
pursued:
Devotee: Maharshi advises the seeker to get rid of thoughts. On what should I concentrate the mind after all the thoughts are expelled? I do not see where I stand then and on what should I concentrate?
Maharshi: For whom is the concentration?
Devotee: For the mind.
Maharshi: Then concentrate the
mind.
Devotee: On what?
Maharshi: Answer the question yourself. What is the mind? Why should you concentrate?
Devotee: I do not know what the mind is. I ask Maharshi.
Maharshi: Maharshi does not seek to know the mind. The questioner must question the mind itself as to what it is.
continued.....
R.Subramanian,
What Papa Ramdas says is that one should not get attached the outer form of The Guru and Neglect looking within. Sri Bhagavan's advice to Annamalai Swami not to visit him in the Asramam is along the same lines.
There are no hard and fast rules in these matters.
God alone is the Guru.
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 472 continues..
Devotee: Maharshi advises that the mind should be divested of thoughts.
Maharshi: This itself is a thought.
Devotee: When all thoughts disappear what remains over?
Maharshi: Is the mind different from thoughts?
Devotee: No. The mind is made up of thoughts. My point is this: When all thoughts are got rid of, how shall I concentrate the mind?
Maharshi: Is not this also a thought?
Devotee: Yes, but I am advised to concentrate.
Maharshi: Why should you concentrate? Why should you not allow your thoughts free play?
Devotee: The Sastras say that the thoughts, thus playing free, lead us astray, that is, to unreal and changeful things.
Maharshi: So then, you want not to be lead to unreal and changeful things. Your thoughts are unreal and changeful. You want to hold the Reality. That is exactly what I say. The thoughts are unreal. Get rid of them.
Devotee: I understand now. Yet there is a doubt. 'Not a trice can you remain inactive.' How shall I be able to rid myself of thoughts?
Maharshi: The same Gita says: "Although all actions take place, I am not the doer." It is like the sun towards the world activities. The Self always remains actionless, whereas thoughts arise and subside. The Self is Perfection. It is immutable. The mind is limited and changeful. You need only to cast off your limitations. You perfection then stands revealed.
Devotee: Grace is necessary for it.
Maharshi: Grace is ever present. All that is necessary is that you surrender to It.
Devotee: I surrender and pray that even if I go wrong I may be forcibly drawn to it.
Maharshi: Is this surrender? Surrender to be complete and must be unquestioning.
Devotee: Yes, I surrender. You say I must dive into the ocean of the Self like a pearl diver into the sea.
Maharshi: Because you are now thinking that you are out of the ocean of Consciousness.
Devotee: I practice pranayama. It generates heat in the body. What should I do?
Maharshi: The heat will pass away when the mind gains calm.
Devotee: That is true but most difficult.
Maharshi: This is again a thought which is an obstacle.
******
Dear Ravi,
Yes. I agree with you. However Swami Ramdas's article does not say specifically the outer form, that is, Guru's body. He has mentioned 'company of saints', 'dwelling in the company of saints' etc., He also says about the analogy of plants growing stunted under a tree etc., Hence Sri Bhagavan had to clarify.
The full article, which I have not quoted, is there in Talks No. 456.
Kaivalya Navaneetam verse clearly says: You were within me in all my past incarnations. Now you have manifested in human form only to speak the language understood by me and lead me.
*****
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 38:
vinai mudhal nAm Ayin viLaipayan
thuippom
vinai mudhal Ar enRu vinavith -
thanai aRiyak
kartrutvam poi karumam moonRum
kazhalum
nittamAm mukti nilai.
If we are the agents of deeds, we shall have to experience the fruit of deeds. When one knows oneself by inquiring as to who is the agent of deeds, the sense of agency is lost and the three fold karmas is removed.
That Self Inquiry is the one sure solvent for all the problems of life and thought is the central teaching of Sri Bhagavan. One of the most knotty of problems is that of karma. Even knowledgeable persons go wrong, says the teacher of the Gita, in determining what is action and what is non action. Action does not mean mere movement of the body or functioning of the will. Nor does it mean simply the results of actions that a body complex has to reap or is in the process of reaping. It is only. It is only when the self mistakenly identifies itself with the psycho-
physical organism, which is a product of Maya, that it becomes an agent and an experiment. Agency and experiencing are superimposed on the Self. They do not belong to it.
Karma, in the sense of action is of several kinds. There are optional deeds (kamya karma) which one need perform only if one wished the fruit. He who desires heaven, for instance, is asked to perform sacrifices such as the Jyotistoma. There are obligatory duties, like nitya karma which one has to do
because they have to be done. The offering of twilight prayers (SandhyA vandanA) is one such duty.
The nitya karmas are daily obligations. There are certain other obligatory duties which are occasional (naimittika karmas). These too are of the nature of 'ought'. For example, the birth of a son carries with it the obligatory performance of certain rites. While the varieties of karmas so far mentioned are positive in the sense that they are prescribed for performance, there are others which are negative and therefore prohibited. These are called pratisiddha karmas, such as killing or doing injury to a living being. Actions are also classified into those that are secular (loukika) and those that are sacred, (vaidika). But whatsoever be the nature of the work, whatever be the category to which it belongs, it springs from avidya, and is rooted in it.
Sri Sankra says in AdhyAsa bhAshya:
tasmad avidyAvad visyAni eva pratkshAdini pramAnAni sAstrAni cheti |
continued.....
Dear Ravi,
Swami Ramdas says that the plants will have stunted growth if it is under a tree. This analogy is not correct. A fully grown tree of course needs further inputs from earth and thus prevents the share of the plant which will wither. However, a fully realized Jnani does not need any further inputs in the sense, he does not claim the share of the devotees, the plants
that are growing/living with him.
Even his own outputs are only for the benefit of devotees. It is like a tree giving room for the frail creeper, to hold on to it for its further growth.
Of course many devotees had darshan of Sri Bhagavan only once (e.g. a blind boy from Lahore; Wolter A.Kiers and a few others). For them
one encounter with Sri Bhagavan was enough, and they realized the Self on their own, without being physically present with Him. That one visit was adequate for them to transform themselves. Others who needed constant dinning in their ears were coming to Him often or even permanently stayed with Him. A third category was doing frequent visits to Him, if not staying permanently, perhaps for the recharge, when they found restlessness without being able to pursue sadhana effectively.
Subramanian. R
R.Subramanaian,
I will go with papa Ramdas.We have the example of Hriday and Sri Ramakrishna.
Guru Nanak Dev says:
"(O foolish frog) you dwell ever in the water (where the lily blooms), but the bumble bee who dwells not there *hungers - intoxicated* with the fragrance (of the lily) from afar."
Physical proximity to The Guru does not mean much.I think sri bhagavan said something like Guru Nanak with regard to Grant Duff when some others complained that he is showing special Grace to Grant Duff.
Papa knows what he is saying and he is saying this out of sheer Love.He sent Yogi Ramsurat Kumar Packing for just such a Reason only.
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian,
"He was requested to say if contact with saints could be a danger.
Sri Bhagavan then quoted a Tamil stanza which says that contact with
Guru should be kept up till videhamukti (being disembodied).
Again he asked where is the Satpurusha? He is within."
Papa never says that contact with Saints could be a Danger!Nor does Bhagavan seem to be emphasizing the Physical proximity.
I have found that the Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi does not capture the words of Sri Bhagavan and the import clearly.
Most important is how we interpret the words of Bhagavan.Even his 'hoom' 'hoom' used to be interpreted by the devotees in a convenient way.
To me,Sri Bhagavan is saying the same thing what Papa emphasizes.
Namaskar.
Friends,
Swami Satchidananda lived and served papa Ramdas as his disciple.The Following excerpts are from a wonderful article that he wrote 'My Beloved Papa,Swami Ramdas':
If anyone wants me to tell them something about Beloved Papa, I ask them to visualise what it would be like if, by some divine alchemy, Love and Bliss were to coalesce and stand before them as one luminous entity. That is how Papa can be seen with the naked eye.
Papa was indeed the very image of Love and Bliss divine. What was the source of that Love? When he opened out his heart to Ram, his eternal Beloved, Ram flooded his heart with never-ending, never-fading Love. This happened when Papa turned to his beloved Ram with pure devotion and utter self-surrender, turning his back on the world and the attractions it might hold for him. It was born of the realisation of his oneness with the Infinite and the Eternal Self. Every fibre of his being then thrilled to the sweet rhythm of Love. Bliss ineffable flowed over and saturated him, rising like an artesian spring from the heart's core when Papa realised the entire universe of name and form as the vibhuti or manifestation of the Self.
In the state of pure Bliss-consciousness he carried on his spiritual ministry till his last day on earth. Through his talks and actions he gave those who sought him a taste of the love and bliss divine. The purest pearls of wisdom that fell from his tips spread sweetness and light all round, dispelling gloom, fear and anxiety that held the people in a tight grip. Earnest seekers were lifted up to higher levels of consciousness, getting a glimpse of the true life of the Spirit, with the result that a deep yearning for that life was kindled in them. Papa's talks were often punctuated with jokes and laughter. The total impression left on the mind of the listener was never to be forgotten.
Once, to illustrate the futility of empty, theoretical advaitic knowledge, Papa narrated the following story. He was staying in a small mandir in Jhansi when a man approached him and asked, "Who are you?"
"I am Ramdas," he replied simply.
"No, you speak a lie there," returned his visitor. "You are Ram Himself. When you declare you are Ramdas, you do not know what you say. God is everything and in everything. He is in you and so you are He. Confess it right away.
"True, dear friend," Ramdas replied, "God is everything. But at the same time, it must be noted God is one, and when He is in you and everywhere around you, may I humbly ask to whom you are putting this question?"
After a little reflection, the man could only answer, "Well, I have put the question to myself ".
Papa always stressed the necessity of absolute honesty and sincerity as essential in the great Quest. Better an honest, dualistic bhakti than a hypocritical advaita; Whereas bhakti, however dualistic, will lead ultimately to jnana as jnana mata, the mother of jnana, advaita practised only with the head leads merely to confusion and hypocrisy."
continued.....
Friends,
Papa Ramdas continued...
"Another incident illustrates this point well. When Papa was staying at Mount Abu he was taken to meet a "great saint", Swami Kaivalyananda, a young sannyasin living in a cave, his body completely shaved, but surrounded by a number of books.
Papa approached him and prostrated.
With a look of surprise, the sannyasin asked, "To whom are you offering this salutation?"
"To Ram," Papa replied.
"Who are you?"
"Ramdas. "
"Ramdas. Ramdas, funny, isn't it? There is only one Truth. Why do you assume this false duality?"
"It is Ram Himself, being One, who has chosen to be many. "
"Wrong," retorted the advaitin. "He is always One; many is false, illusion."
"Truth has become God and His devotee for the sake of lila, the divine play," Papa responded.
"Why play?"
"For love and bliss; so when Ramdas prostrates before you, it is yourself who do it in the form of Ramdas," Papa went on.
"Bosh!" cut in the sannyasin. "There is only one, never two." "Then to whom are you talking, dear Swamiji," asked Papa, pulling out his brahmastra.
The sannyasin reflected a while and had to reply, "To myself".
"Exactly. You assume there are two although in the light of absolute Truth there is only one."
"No, no--no realised person believes in duality," maintained the advaitin, getting jumpy. "Here, take this book and read it. You will understand things more clearly, I assure you. It is written by me." He pressed Papa to accept it. Noticing the author's name on the cover, Papa noted that he referred to himself as "Swami Kaivalyananda, M.A."!
continued....
Friends,
Papa Ramdas continued...
"In his accounts of his travels and dealings with devotees, humour was never far from Papa's lips. Always a keen sense of proportion levelled the absurd to the mundane and raised the mundane to the sublime.
Once Papa was rambling aimlessly through a bazaar, not begging, indeed indifferent to food, as he was on a water fast.
"Who is that man?" a passer-by enquired of a merchant, pointing at Papa. The merchant replied, tapping his temple, "He is a half-cracked".
Papa, overhearing the remark, went up to them to correct the merchant's words. "No, brother, not merely half-cracked. Why not say full-cracked, which is the truth?" So saying, Papa passed on his way.
Any doubt about Papa's sense of proportion is washed away completely by the "Boot-kick Puja" episode. Papa had been staying at Limbdi, where he was being sumptuously looked after and treated with the utmost respect. Every day more than a hundred people came for his darshan and satsang. Never attached to such externalities, as soon as Papa received the inner command of Ram to quit the place, he left. The tedious train-ride was broken at several places by a change in trains. One occurred at about ten at night.
Entering a third-class carriage, Papa found that it was very full, and everyone was lying down at full length on their bedding, leaving no room for any other passenger. Somehow, however, Papa found a perch at the feet of a particularly short passenger. At the next station, a number of new passengers poured into the carriage. These had to stand in the narrow passage between the seats, while not a single sleeping passenger made room for them. Papa felt that he should give up his seat for one of them and so quietly slipped down to the floor and stayed there. His former perch was, of course, immediately taken.
At the next station, a fresh set of passengers came in. The rush was now so great that they began tramping through the passage with their heavy boots, searching for some available place to sit. Papa, crouching on the floor like a rabbit, received their kicks with no small delight. He rolled himself down and twisted his body into a figure 8 in order to take up the least amount of room. Station after station new passengers came in. They crowded the passage to well-nigh suffocation point. Some of the sleeping passengers were even forced to sit up. So Papa was treated with boot-kicks from all four sides. Seated passengers had to knock against him when changing the position of their legs. The ones standing in the passage added their share whenever they were shoved. Papa's only covering was a single cloth from head to foot. He looked not unlike a cloth bag on the floor. Reflecting upon the situation, Papa said to himself:
"Ramdas, only a few hours ago you were receiving puja (worship) at the houses of several devotees with flower garlands, sandal paste and arati (waving of lights). That was one kind of puja. Now here you are, immediately afterwards, getting another kind, with boot-kicks! Where is the difference? Is there any less Ram in the one than in the other?"
And so Papa went on chuckling to himself throughout the rest of the journey"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to our Friend,R Subramanian.He made us take a dip in the ocean of Bliss and Love that is Papa Ramdas.
Namaskar.
shiv/friends,
I warmly recommend reading the glorious autobiography of Papa Ramdas:
1.In Quest of God-Here Vittal Rao(Papa Ramdas)recounts how he is taken over by Divine Grace and wanders as a Sadhu.He Visits Tiruvannamalai and meets Sri Bhagavan who drenches him in love and Bliss with his Glance;he then travels to North and East,to Dakshineswar ,where he visits the Kali temple and someone escorts him to Sri ramakrishna's room.Papa rolls in ecstasy in the floor of this room blessed by the Feet of the Great Master Sri Ramakrishna.
Very Absorbing reading.This is available as pdf download:
http://www.anandashram.org/html/text.html
2.In the Vision of God(Originally in 2 volumes) -is a sequel where Papa Ramdas,fully established in God, wanders freely as a Jivanmukta.Papa's writes in a refreshing style intensely human and captivating Love and Humour.This book ,I understand was out of print and may be available in some obscure book stall,where it must be lying for sometime Gathering dust!
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru Adigai - 607 106
This place is about 2 kms from Panrutti, a railway station in Vriddachalam - Chidambaram route.
The temple is one of the seven places of Siva's heroic deeds. Siva smiled and burnt the three cities (Muppuraam) the flying cities in which three demons were travelling and causing destruction on the earth. Siva is called Adigai VeerasthAneswarar. Uma is called Tripura Sundari. The holy waters of the temple (Tirtham) are called
Kedila tirtham, a tank. The holy tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Sura KonRai tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in his 11 verses, Tiru Navukkrasar in his 146 verses and Sundaramurti Swamigal in his 10 verses.
It is also the temple where Jnana Sambandha had witnessed Siva's dance. The more important event is that in this temple Tiru Navukkarasar prayed to Siva sang his first decad to ward off his incurable colic pain. He came back to his sister Tilakavadhi, from Jain's Math from PAdhiripuliyur (the present Cuddalore) and on the advice of his sister, he applied vibhuti on his forehead and stomach and rushed to this temple for seeking Siva's grace. Sundaramurti later did not want to step into this village and stayed outside and composed his verses on Siva, since the place was too holy (due to grace of Siva to Tiru Navukkarasar) to be stepped in.
The temple has got shrine for Tiru Navukkarasar. The temple is also called Kedila VirasthAnam, after the holy waters of Kedilam, the tank. Tiru Navukkarasar mentions this place only as Keidla VirasthAnam in his verses.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 473:
Someone remarked: It is said that they get mukti unasked who live or die within a radius of 3 yojanas (about 36 kms) round Arunachala. It is also admitted that only by Jnana is liberation obtained. The Purana
remarks that Vedanta Vijnana is difficult to get. So mukti is difficult. But life or death round about the Hill bestows mukti so easily. How can it be?
Maharshi: Siva says, 'By my command.' Those who live here need no initiation, diksha, etc., but get mukti. Such is the command of Siva.
Devotee: The purana also says that those who are born here are Siva's group of followers, such as ghosts, spirits, disembodied beings etc.,
Maharshi: So it is said of other kshetras as well, e.g. Tiruvarur, Chidambaram.
Devotee: How does mere life or death here confer mukti? It is difficult to understand.
Maharshi: Darsanad Abhrasadsi jananat Kamalalaye, Kasyantu maranam muktih smaranad Arunachale..
"To see Chidambaram, to be born in Tiruvarur, to die in Kasi or merely to think of Arunachala, is to be assured of Liberation."
Jananat Kamalalaye means 'by being born in Kamalalaya'. Where is it. It is the Heart.
Similaraly, Abhrasadasi - Seat of Consciousness. Again Kasi is the Light of Realization. Remembering Arunachala completes the verse. It must be understood in the same sense.
****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 511:
Major Chadwick had translated Na karmana na prajaya.. into English. Sri Bhagavan was explaining its meaning. Brahmaloka may be interpreted subjectively or objectively. The latter meaning requires faith in the Sastras which speak of such lokas, whereas the former meaning is purely of experience and requires no external authority. Brahmaloka would mean Brahma Jnana (Knowledge of Brahman) or Self Realization (Atma Sakshatkara). Parantakala as opposed aparantakala. In the latter, the jivas pass into oblivion to take other births. Their oblivion is enveloped in ignorance (avidya). Para is beyond the body. Parantakala is transcendence over the body etc., i.e. Jnana. Paramaritat prakriteh = beyond prakriti. Sarve implies that all are qualified for knowledge and liberation. yatayah = yama niyama sametah sat purushah = good men well disciplined. The whole passage implies passing into the real beyond the unreal.
Deathlessness is not obtained through action or begetting offspring or wealth. Some attain that state through renunciation. The Sages that have conquered the senses, attain that Sat which is more supreme than Heaven and shining all alone in the Heart. The adepts who by renunciation and one pointedness are pure in heart and have known the certainty of Truth by the special knowledge proclaimed by Vedanta, get fully released in the Brahmaloka from the causal Maya at the dissolution of the body. That alone which shines as the tiny Akasa, void of sorrow, in the lotus heart, the tiny seat of the spotless Supreme in the inner core of the body is worthy of worship. He alone is the Supreme Lord, who is beyond the Primal Word which is the beginning and the end of the Veda and in which merges the creative Cause.
.....
.....
The Mandukya Upanishad speaks of the three matras and turiya matra. The final meaning is that it represents the real state.
......
......
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 513:
.......
.......
Devotee: But Yoga Vasishta says that chitta (mind) of a Jivanmukta is achala (unchanging).
Maharshi: So it is. Achala chitta is the same as suddha manas. The Jnani's manas is said to be suddha manas. The Yoga Vasishta also says that Brhaman is no other than the Jnani's mind. So Brahman is suddha manas only.
Devotee: Will the description of Brahman as Sat Chit Ananda suit this suddha manas? For this too will be destroyed in the final emancipation.
Maharshi: If Suddha manas is admitted, the Bliss experienced by the Jnani must also be admitted to be reflected. This reflection must finally merge into the Original. Therefore, the Jivanmukti state is compared to the reflection of a spotless mirror in another similar mirror. What will be found in such a reflection? Pure Akasa. Similarly the Jnani's mind reflected the Bliss, represents only the true Bliss.
These are all only words. It is enough that a person becomes antarmukhi (inward bent). The Sastras are not needed for an inward turned mind. They are meant for the rest.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 551:
A man asked Sri Bhagavan: "How is it that Atma Vidya is said to be the easiest?"
Maharshi: Any other vidya requires a knower, knowledge, and the object to be known, whereas this does not require any of them. It is the Self. Can anything be so obvious as That? Hence it is the easiest. All that you need is to inquire Who am I?
A man's true name is mukti (liberation).
******
Ravi,
Thank you for the information about Papa Ramdas. I will download the file today.
Just finished reading Sri Ganesan's reminiscenes about the old devotees of Sri Ramana. I think even ten readings will not be sufficient ! We really owe a great debt to people like Sri Ganesan, David and all the others who have gathered this precious information for us.
Warm Regards,
shiv
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 643:
.....
Devotee: Sri Sankara emphasizes the Jnana marga and renunciation as preliminary to it. But there are clearly two methods dwividha, mentioned in the Gita. They are Karma and Jnana (lokesmin dwividha nishta...)
Maharshi: Sri Acharya has commented on the Gita and on that passage also.
Devotee: The Gita seems to emphasize Karma. For Arjuna is persuaded to fight. Sri Krishna Himself set the example by an
active life of exploits.
Maharshi: The Gita starts saying that you are not the body, that you are not therefore the karta.
Devotee: What is the significance?
Maharshi: That one should act without thinking that oneself is the actor. The actions go on despite his egolessness. The person has come into manifestation for a certain purpose. That purpose will be accomplished whether he considers himself the actor or not.
Devotee: What is karma yoga? Is it non attachment to karma or its fruit.
Maharshi: Karma Yoga is that yoga in which the person does not arrogate to himself the function of being the actor. The actions go on automatically.
Devotee: Is it the non attachment to the fruits of actions?
Maharshi: The question arises only if there is actor. It is being all along said that you should not consider yourself the actor.
Devotee: So Karma Yoga is kartrtva buddhi rahita karma - action without the sense of doership.
Maharshi: Yes. Quite so.
Devotee: The Gita teaches active life from beginning to end.
Maharshi: Yes, the actor-less action.
Devotee: Is it then necessary to leave home and lead a life of renunciation?
Maharshi: Is the home in you? Or are you in the home?
Devotee: It is in my mind.
Maharshi: Then what becomes of you when you leave the physical environment?
Devotee: Now I see. Renunciation is only action without the sense of being the karta. Is there not action for a Jivanmukta?
Maharshi: Who raises the question?
Is he a jivanmukta or another?
Devotee: Not a jivanmukta.
Maharshi: Let the question be raised after jivanmukti is gained if it is found necessary. Mukti is admitted to be freedom from the mental activities. Can a mukta think of action?
Devotee: Even if he gives up action, the action will not leave him. Is it not so?
Maharshi: With what is he identified in order that this question might apply?
Devotee: Yes, I see all right. My doubts are now cleared.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mukti, Liberation:
Talks No. 650:
........
........
Devotee: Will bhakti lead to mukti?
Maharshi: Bhakti is not different from mukti. Bhakti is being as the Self (Swarupa). One is always that. He realizes it by means he adopts.
What is bhakti? To think of God. That means: only one thought prevails to the exclusion of all other thoughts. That thought is of God which is the Self or it is the self surrendered unto God. When He has taken you up nothing will assail you. The absence of thought is bhakti. It is also mukti.
The Jnana method is said to be Vichara (inquiry). That is nothing but supreme devotion, para bhakti. The difference is in words only.
You think that bhakti is meditation on the Supreme Being. so long as there is vibhakti (the sense of separateness), bhakti (reunion) is sought. The process will lead to the ultimate goal as is said in Srimad Bhagavad Gita:
arto jignasuh artharthi jnani cha
Bharatarshabha
tesham jnani nityayukta ekabhktir
visishyate.
- Chapter VII. 16,17.
Any kind of meditation is good. But if the sense of separateness is lost and the object of meditation or the subject who meditates is alone left behind without anything else to know, it is Jnana. Jnana is said to be eka bhakti (single minded devotion). The Jnani is finality because he has become the Self and there is nothing more to do. He is also perfect and so fearless, dwitiyat vai bhayam bhavati -- only the existence of a second gives rise to fear. This is mukti. This is also bhakti.
*****
Ulladu Narpadu - Verse 38:
continues....
Action is what is done by the body,mind and speech. What we sow we reap by way of the results of actions. The sense of agency while acting invariably result in the sense of being the experiencer.
As long as 'I am the body' idea persists, Kartrutva (the sense of agency) and Bhoktrutva (the sense of enjoyership) will also remain. The awareness of 'I am the doer' persists in every action performed. The sense of agency that 'I am the doer, I was the doer, I will be the doer' is a thought-wave - an attitude - that arises in the mind lake. All attachments arise from the ego and the sense of agency fetters life to all actions. When one enquires, 'To whom is this sense of doership of deeds', one's ego, becoming one with the one's true form, becomes existence-less. Such knowledge of the Self, gained by the annihilation of the ego, destroys the sense of agency. Hence the resulting actions become void. No longer does the attachment to the attitude of doership bind the doer. Thus the actions lose life, become extinct and cease to bind one. Sri Bhagavan expresses this idea in Verse 33 of Anubhandham also. One school however maintains that even for a Jivanmukta, the prarabdha karma will have to spent by way of experience. Sri Bhagavan proves there was that such an explanation is not valid. With the dawn of Jnana, avidya (nescience) is destroyed. Nescience is nothing but the causal body. As a result, the subtle body and gross body also become non existent, in the Jnani's experience. How can there by karma for him? There one is abhoktha (non enjoyer) and akratha (non doer). How then will one become doer of actions? Therefore prarabdha also is wiped out. But from the point of view of onlookers, he has a body still. Assuming even that a Jnani has a body, he is the Self and the body is away from him. It is like a shirt worn by a person. Therefore it appears to others that a Jnani is going through the rest of his prarabdha karam, which in fact, is not true, for if there is no 'expereincer' where is the experience of the left over prarabdha? All the deeds of a Jnani are but those of the Lord. His form is simply Sat Chit - Being Awareness. It is the causal body which is the cause of mutual superimposition between the Atman and the gross body and subtle bodies.
Therefore if a Jnani does a variety of deeds, such deeds become the deeds of Siva within.
Verse 38 concluded.
Siva Temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru kOlakkA - 609 110.
(thALam udaiyar kovil)
This is a small temple about 1 km
from SirkAazhi, the birth place of
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar.
Siva is called Tiru thAlam udaiyAr
- one who has cymbals. Uma is called Osai koduttha nAyaki, the one who gave sound.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 verses and Sundaramurti Swamigal in 10 verses.
The holy waters (Tirtham) of the temple are called Surya Tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is konRai tree.
It is this place where Jnana Sambandha, as a young child, got
golden cymbals from Siva. When the three year old Jnana Sambandhar was clapping while singing songs, Siva felt that the young child should be given a pair of cymbals so that his palms would not get pain, by clapping! Siva gave golden cymbals to the child and since the golden cymbals by themselves would not produce sound (unlike bronze cymbals), Uma caused the sound to come out of this golden cymbals, as an additional boon! So she is called Osai kodutha nAyaki, the one who conferred sound!
Sundaramurti sings in his 7.8.
nALum innisaiyAl tamizh parappum
Jnana sambandhanukku ulahavar mun
tALam eenthavan pAdalukku irangum
thanmaiyALanai en manak karruttai
......
When Jnana Sambandha every day sang in melodious music, songs in Tamizh that spread His glory, He gave him cymbals with great compassion, after listening to his songs.....
*****
Munagala Venkararamaiah Liberation
Day - 12.02.2012:
"The Talks" has been a source of perennial inspiration to generations of spiritual seekers all over the world for more than four decades now. It sweetness was first savored in 1936, when extracts from it were published under the title Maharshi's Gospel.
Munagala who just called himself 'Recorder' of Talks, preferred to remain anonymous and wish to hide
hide his identity.
Muunagala was a researcher in chemical substances and was doing research in Bombay and he was appreciating for discovery of a chemical that prevented the drying up of the ink, in the old type fountain pens. He had offers from Delhi and other places where there were chemical laboratories.
Munagala is from ChoLavandAn, a town near Madurai. He is a Telugu by birth, but knew Tamizh very well. He was also an excellent scholar in Sanskrit and had ability to speak fluent English too. Hence Sri Bhagavan used him as pure channel of His power as communicator of His Teachings.
He came to Sri Bhagavan for his first darsan in 1918, when He was at Skandasramam and later in 1927 with his family. But it was only five years later, in 1932, that he was ready to surrender himself to Sadguru Ramana.
Suddenly without notice, in 1932, his job was terminated without any reason. He had a daughter to be married and young sons to be educated. He was left high and dry. Apparently fate had dealt its worst blow. In reality however, it was the greatest good fortune which caused the event. Only this 'tragedy' had brought him to Sri Bhagavan in a mood of surrender.
He wanted to record the sweet words of Sri Bhagavan and with the consent of the authorities, he took notes in English. The job was quite difficult since Sri Bhagavan spoke in Tamizh, Telugu, and Malayalam,
depending on the devotees. Undaunted by the magnitude of task, he took up the work and made such notes from May 1935 to April 1939.
"The completed notes were often shown to the questioners for verification, but the whole had the seal of approval of Sri Bhagavan Himself, as the records were always shown to Him for His approval or the necessary alteration after they had been entered in the notebook.
Thus we may be sure that here we have the exact teaching of the Master.." (Major Chadwick in his 1955 introduction to the published book.)
continued....
Munagala Venkataramiah Liberation
Day - 12.02.2012:
continues....
Though Munagala painstakingly and whole heartedly worked at his job as the interpreter and recorder of Sri Bhagavan's words, he had no attachment to the record maintained by him. Sri V. Ganesan recalls in his Human Gospel, "the notes after approval and even corrections by
Sri Bhagavan" were collected and neatly bound in volumes and the corrected versions were made over to the Asramam management. The manuscripts were remaining for long years in the Asramam and it was only after Maha Nirvana of Sri Bhagavan, these were published as books and then as one single volume in later years. A single volume in Bible type paper (slim edition) has come out in 2010. As per Sri Bhagavan's wish, Munagala also made a English prose translation of Tripura Rahasya.
Major Chadwick says: "Thus we may be sure that here we have the exact teaching of the Master, and reading them, we once again sit at His feet in the Old Hall, drinking in every word that falls from His lips; enraptured by His smile, the movement of His delicate hands, and His actions; for He was a true artist, often acting the part of the story He was telling, the better drive home His point. Some may be inclined to criticize this book as monotonous, but this supposed monotony is deliberate, for some new point is always brought out however similar talks may seem; Sri Bhagavan always stressed the one essential truth that was necessary for liberation, and there is only one Self and nothing but the Self....Not one word to be passed over lightly, or one conversation to be dismissed as superfluous. It is all pure
gold. And here again we find the everliving Sri Ramana Maharshi before us in person, teaching us in His own inimitable words for our benefit and delight..."
Munagala spent several years at Sri Ramanasramam, after Sri Bhagavan's Maha Nirvana, feeling and communicating His continuous Presence. In 1955, he took to the ochre robes but this only an outward symbol of his true inner renunciation. He was 'absorbed' in Sri Bhagavan in 1963.
concluded.
Sri Bhagavan about AruL (Grace):
Talks No, 29.
......
Devotee: It is said that Divine Grace is necessary to attain successful undistracted mind (samadhi). Is that so?
Maharshi: We are God (Iswara). Iswara Drishti (seeing ourselves as God) is itself Divine Grace. So we
need Divine Grace to get God's Grace.
Maharshi smiles and all devotees laugh together.
Devotee: There is also Divine Favour (Iswara anugraham) as distint from Divine Grace (Iswara prasadam). Is that so?
Maharshi: The thought of God is Divine Favor! He is by nature Grace (prasad or AruL). It is by God's Grace you think of God.
Devotee: Is not the Master's Grace the result of God's Grace?
Maharshi: Why distinguish between the two? The Master is the same as God and not different from him.
Devotee: When an endeavor is made to lead the right life and to concentrate thought on the Self, there is often a downfall and break. What is to be done?
Maharshi: It will come all right in the end. There is the steady impulse of your determination that sets you on your feet again after every downfall and breakdown. Gradually the obstacles are all overcome and your current becomes stronger. Everything comes right in the end. Steady determination is what is required.
******
Sri Bhagavan about ARuL - Grace:
Talks No. 157:
Devotee: In the quest of I, the seeker is at a certain stage directed to keep the mind in a negative attitude for Grace to enter. How can a negative yield a positive result?
Maharshi: The Self is always there - not to be newly got.
Devotee: I mean to ask, what has been done in the negative attitude to deserve the Grace?
Maharshi: Are you asking this question without Grace? Grace is in he beginning, middle and end. Grace itself is the Self. Because of the false identification of the Self with the body, the Guru is considered to be with the body. But from the Guru's outlook the Guru is only the Self. The Self is one only. He tells that the Self alone is. Is not then the Self your Guru?
Where else will Grace come from? It is from the Self alone. Manifestation of the Self is a manifestation of Grace and vice versa. All these doubts arise because of the wrong outlook and consequent expectation of things external to oneself. Nothing is external to the Self.
Devotee: All questions are from our standpoint and Sri Bhagavan replies from His standpoint. The questions are not only answered but are also undermined.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about ARuL - Grace:
Talks No. 220.
Mr.B.C. Das, a Physics lecturer asked:
......
Devotee: How to begin? Your Grace is needed for it.
Maharshi: Grace is always there. 'Dispassion cannot be acquired, nor realization of the Truth, nor inherence in the Self, in the absence of Guru's Grace.
Practice is necessary. It is like training a roguish bull confined to his stall by tempting him with luscious grass and preventing him from straying.
Then the Master read out a stanza from Tiruvachakam, which is an address to the mind, saying, "O humming bee, (namely the mind)! Why do you take the pains of collecting tiny specks of honey from innumerable flowers? There is one from you can have the whole storehouse of honey by simply thinking or seeing or speaking of Him. Get within and hum to Him (hrimkara)."
(Tirukottumbi, Verse 3: Tiruvachakam.
thinai thinai uLLathor poovinil then uNNAthe,
ninaithoRumm, kANthoRum pesunthoRum eppodhum,
anaithelumbuL nega Ananda then soriyum,
kunippudai Aynukke senRoothAi kottumbi.)
****
Sri Bhagavan about ARuL - Grace:
Talks No. 251:
.........
.........
Devotee: How is that to happen?
Maharshi: By inquiry into the Self.
Devotee: Is it difficult. Can I realize the Self, Maharaj? Kindly tell me. It looks so difficult.
Maharshi: You are already the Self. Therefore, realization is common to every one. Realization knows no difference in the aspirants. This very doubt, 'Can I realize the Self?' or the feeling, 'I have not realized' are the obstacles. Be free from these also.
Devotee: But there should be the experience. Unless I have the experience how can I be free from these afflicting thoughts?
Maharshi: These are also in the mind. They are there because you have identified yourself with the body. If this false identity drops away, ignorance vanishes and Truth is revealed.
Devotee: Yes, I feel it difficult. There are disciples of Sri Bhagavan who have had His Grace and realized without any considerable difficulty. I too wish to have that Grace. Being a woman and living at a long distance, I cannot avail Maharshi's holy company as much as I would wish and as often as I would. Possibly I may not be able to return. I request Sri Bhagavan's Grace. When I am back in my place, I want to remember Sri Bhagavan. May Bhagavan be pleased to grant my prayer.
Maharshi: Where are you going? You are not going anywhere. Even supposing you are the body, has your body come from Lucknow to Tiruvannamalai? You had simply sat in the car and one conveyance or another had moved; and finally you say that you have come here. The fact is that you are not the body. The Self does not move. The world moves in it..... As for Grace - Grace is within you. If it is external it is useless. Grace is the Self. You are never out of its operation. Grace is always there. ..... As I have already said, "If you remember Bhagavan, you are prompted to do so by the Self." Is not Grace already there? Is there a moment when Grace is not operating in you? Your remembrance is the forerunner of Grace. That is the response, that is the stimulus, that is the Self and that is the Grace. There is not cause for anxiety.
........
........
Devotee: Will the Maharshi be pleased to extend Grace to me also!
Maharshi smiled and said: Um! Um!
*******
R.Subramanian/Friends,
Talk no 266,from Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi captures the essence of Sri Bhagavan's teaching:
Talk 266.
The Muslim Professor asked: It is said that one should give up desire.
But there are the needs of the body which are irrepressible. What is
to be done?
M.: An aspirant must be equipped with three requisites: (1) Ichcha;
(2) Bhakti; and (3) Sraddha. Ichcha means satisfaction of bodily
wants without attachment to the body (such as hunger and thirst and
evacuation). Unless it is done meditation cannot progress. Bhakti
and Sraddha are already known.
D.: There are two kinds of desires - the baser and the nobler. Is it our
duty to transmute the baser one to the nobler?
M.: Yes.
D.: Well, Bhagavan, you said there are three requisites of which
ichcha is the satisfaction of natural wants without attachment to
the body, etc. I take food three or four times a day and attend to
bodily wants so much so that I am oppressed by the body. Is there
a state when I shall be disembodied so that I might be free from
the scourge of bodily wants?
M.: It is the attachments (raga, dwesha) which are injurious. The
action is not bad in itself. There is no harm in eating three or four
times. But only do not say, “I want this kind of food and not that
kind” and so on.
Moreover you take those meals in twelve hours of wakeful state whereas
you are not eating in the hours of sleep. Does sleep lead you to mukti?
It is wrong to suppose that simple inactivity leads one to mukti.
D.: There are said to be sadeha mukta (liberated in body) and videha
mukta (liberated without body).
M.: There is no liberation, and where are muktas?
D.: Do not Hindu sastras speak of mukti?
M.: Mukti is synonymous with the Self. Jivan mukti (liberation while
alive) and videha mukti (liberation after the body falls) are all for the
ignorant. The Jnani is not conscious of mukti or bandha (bondage).
Bondage, liberation and orders of mukti are all said for an ajnani
in order that ignorance might be shaken off. There is only mukti
and nothing else.
D.: It is all right from the standpoint of Bhagavan. But what about us?
M.: The difference ‘He’ and ‘I’ are the obstacles to jnana.
D.: But it cannot be denied that Bhagavan is of a high order whereas
we are limited. Will Bhagavan make me one with Him?
M.: Were you aware of limitations in your sleep?
D.: I cannot bring down the state of my sleep in the present state and
speak of it.
M.: You need not. These three states alternate before the unchanging
Self. You can remember your state of sleep. That is your real state.
There were no limitations then. After the rise of the ‘I-thought’ the
limitations arose."
continued....
Talk 266 continued...
D.: How to attain the Self?
M.: Self is not to be attained because you are the Self.
D.: Yes. There is an unchanging Self and a changing one in me. There
are two selves.
M.: The changefulness is mere thought. All thoughts arise after the
arising of the ‘I-thought’. See to whom the thoughts arise. Then
you transcend them and they subside. This is to say, tracing the
source of the ‘I-thought’, you realise the perfect ‘I-I’. ‘I’ is the
name of the Self.
D.: Shall I meditate on “I am Brahman” (Aham Brahmasmi)?
M.: The text is not meant for thinking “I am Brahman”. Aham (‘I’) is
known to everyone. Brahman abides as Aham in everyone. Find out
the ‘I’. The ‘I’ is already Brahman. You need not think so. Simply
find out the ‘I’.
D.: Is not discarding of the sheaths mentioned in the sastras?
M.: After the rise of the ‘I-thought’ there is the false identification
of the ‘I’ with the body, the senses, the mind, etc. ‘I’ is wrongly
associated with them and the true ‘I’ is lost sight of. In order to shift
the pure ‘I’ from the contaminated ‘I’ this discarding is mentioned.
But it does not mean exactly discarding of the non-self, but it means
the finding of the real Self.
The real Self is the Infinite ‘I-I’, i.e., ‘I’ is perfection. It is eternal.
It has no origin and no end. The other ‘I’ is born and also dies. It is
impermanent. See to whom are the changing thoughts. They will be
found to arise after the ‘I-thought’. Hold the ‘I-thought’. They subside.
Trace back the source of the ‘I-thought’. The Self alone will remain.
D.: It is difficult to follow. I understand the theory. But what is the
practice?
M.: The other methods are meant for those who cannot take to the
investigation of the Self. Even to repeat Aham Brahmasmi or think
of it, a doer is necessary. Who is it? It is ‘I’. Be that ‘I’. It is the
direct method. The other methods also will ultimately lead everyone
to this method of the investigation of the Self.
D.: I am aware of the ‘I’. Yet my troubles are not ended.
M.: This ‘I-thought’ is not pure. It is contaminated with the association
of the body and senses. See to whom the trouble is. It is to the ‘Ithought’.
Hold it. Then the other thoughts vanish.
D.: Yes. How to do it? That is the whole trouble.
M.: Think ‘I’ ‘I’ ‘I’ and hold to that one thought to the exclusion of
all others."
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
(Lesser known Temples.)
Tiruviyalur - (Tiruvisai Nallur)
- 612 005.
This Siva temple is about 6 kms from Kumbakonam, which can be reached by an autorickshaw or taxi from that town. This temple and town are today famous because of
a great Jnani and composer who is called Tiruvisai Nallur Sridhara AyyAvAL.
Siva is called Yoganandar. Uma is called Soundara Nayaki. The holy
waters of the temple (tirtham) is called Jatayu Tirtham. Tiru Jnana
Sambandar has mentioned this temple in eleven of his verses.
When Brahma, the creator, due to some curse of a rishi had to take birth as a son of one of Vishnu Sarma, he prayed to this Siva on Sivaratri and merged into the Lingam. One can see the marks of long locks of Brahma, the creator, on the LIngam. Sivaratri Pujas are quite popular in this temple. Agasthya is said to come to this temple and pray to Siva on the Sivaratri night.
****
Sri Bhagavan about AruL, Grace:
Talks No. 271.
Dr. Syed: How is Grace to be obtained?
Maharshi: Similar to obtaining the Self.
Devotee: Practically, how is it to be for us?
Maharshi: By self surrender.
Devotee: Grace was said to be the Self. Should I then surrender to my own Self.
Maharshi: Yes. To the one from whom
Grace is sought. God, Guru and Self are only different forms of the same.
Devotee: Please explain, so that I may understand.
Maharshi: So long as you think you are the individual you believe in God. On worshipping God, God appears to you as Guru. On serving the Guru, He manifests as the Self. This is the rationale.
****
Sri Bhagavan about AruL, Grace:
.........
.........
Devotee: If only vasanas for enjoyment do not obstruct the state of realization and if one can look upon the event of the world without his state of bliss being disturbed, it means that attachment alone is bondage. Am I right?
Maharshi: Yes, quite. Attachment is bondage. Attachment disappears with the elimination of the ego.
Devotee: Realization is said to be helped by Guru's Grace.
Maharshi: Guru is none other than the Self.
......
Devotee: May I have Guru's Grace?
Maharshi: Grace is always there.
Devotee: But I did not feel the same.
Maharshi: Surrender will make one understand the Grace.
Devotee: I have surrendered heart and soul. I am the best judge of my heart. Still I do not feel the Grace.
Maharshi: If you had surrendered the questions would not arise.
Devotee: I have surrendered. Still the questions arise.
Maharshi: Grace is constant. Your judgement is the variable. Where else should the fault lie?
Devotee: I must be enabled to surrender myself.
Maharshi: Tayumanavar has said: "Glory to Thee for enabling me to discuss so much and follow Thy words so far."
****
Dear Ravi,
I had to urgently go to Chennai for a bereavement. I and my wife, my sister in law and her daughter rushed to Chennai by taking a car at about 4 pm on Sunday and reached Chennai at 12.30 am. It was a pitiable sight to see the mortal coil of the person, (my wife's side cousin,) who struggled for life for 75 days in Apollo, with multiple problems and passed away, after causing an expense of Rs. 75 lacs to the family. The wife (55) was inconsolable. All the family savings had evaporated for the medical expenses. She has got a daughter (22) and a son (19) to take care.
There was a huge crowd, since the gentleman was do-gooder to all and had rendered help to everyone who wanted. In fact, he helped me to conduct my son's wedding in Hyderabad in 2009, by voluntarily taking up a hundred odd jobs.
The cremation was over by 1.00 pm. All the crowd had some relief. Then taking bath one after another. Then everything seemed to have been forgotten and they all awaited the food. The caterer had come late. He arrived only by 3.30 pm. The crowd started murmuring, walking here and there. And when the food came, they all rushed as if the food was the only thing that mattered most in a death ritual. I think barring a few, everyone must have taken the food, asking, 'more rice, more curry', 'more sambhar'.
The ego was standing, roaring and laughing, with a king size form!
I only remembered a talk by Sri Bhagavan, which is somewhat similar to what you had posted! He has said, to some devotee, "Eat with out ego! That is the prasadam!" (The devotee was asking a fistful of rice from Sri Bhagavan's leaf as prasadam!)
One may be old; one may be weak; one may be a diabetic, who needs
food in proper time! But if one could eat without ego, that is the
best medicine, more than insulin and tablets. That is also the best form of respect and love one could show to the deceased.
We returned again by starting around 4.30 pm and reached Bangalore, by 12.00 midnight. I saw the Marundeeswarar Temple Tower and remembered you. But we could not make it to temples and other things, since we had to return. It was a taxi and charges were quite high for 800 kms. since it was made available by the travel agent at a short notice.
Subramanian. R
Sri Bhagavan about AruL, Grace:
Talks No. 319:
Mr. Ekanatha Rao: Is Grace necessary for the Truth?
Maharshi: Yes.
Devotee: How to gain Divine Grace?
Maharshi: By surrender.
Devotee: Still I do not feet the Grace.
Maharshi: Sincerity is wanting. Surrender should not be verbal not conditional.
Passages from St. Justinian were read out to illustrate these statements.
Prayer is not verbal. It is from the heart. To merge into the Heart is prayer. That is also Grace.
The Azhwar says: "I was all along seeking Thee. But on realizing the Self I find you are the Self. The Self is my all, and so you are my All.
Devotee: Impurities of limitation, ignorance and desire (anava, mayika and kamya) place the obstacles in the way of meditation. How to conquer them?
Maharshi: Not to be swayed by them.
Devotee: Grace is necessary.
Maharshi: Yes. Grace is both the beginning and the end. Introversion is due to Grace. Perseverance is Grace. And Realization is Grace. That is the reason for the statement. Mamekam sarana vraja (only surrender to Me). If one has entirely surrendered oneself is there any part left to ask for Grace? He is swallowed up by the Grace.
Devotee: The obstacles are powerful and obstruct meditation.
Maharshi: If a Higher Power is recognized to, how will they obstruct you? If you say, 'They are powerful' the source of their Power must be held so that they do not obstruct you.
*****
R.Subramanaian,
Sorry about the Bereavement.Please check my mail to you.
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan about AruL, Grace:
Talks No. 354:
........
Devotee: Grace is necessary for the removal of ignorance.
Maharshi: Certainly. But Grace is all along there. Grace is the Self. It is not something to be acquired.
All that is necessary is to know Its existence. For example, the sun is brightness only. He does not see darkness. Whereas others speak of darkness fleeing away on the sun approaching. Similarly, ignorance also is a phantom and not real. Because of its unreality, its unreal nature being found, it is said to be removed. To see the sun you should look at him. So also Grace is found by practice alone although it is here and now.
****
Siva temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
TiruvAnmiyur - 600 041.
This temple is in the city of Chennai quite close to the sea, Bay of Bengal. While KapAleeswarar Temple in Mylapore is better known the visitors of the city, this temple is also an important Siva temple sung about in Saiva Canons.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar in 21 of his verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 10 of his verses mention this temple.
It is said that devas (gods) had made the Siva lingam in nectar and then installed it for their prayers here. Siva is called Marundeeswarar
(the Lord of medicine) and Uma is called Chokka Nayaki (the golden lady).
The Lingam stands slightly slating towards northern side. The story goes that when a cow wanted to shower its milk, the Lingam slanted
to receive the milk! If one could go quite close to Lingam, one can see with priest's guidance, the mark of the foot of cow on the image. The Sage VAnmika had also prayed to Siva here.
mandamAkiya chintai mayakkaruthu
andhamil guNathAnai adainthu ninRu
endhai eesan enRu ethida vallirEl,
vandhu ninRidum vAnmiyur eesane!
Conquering the delusion of the mind, if you reach the Lord who is beyond all guNAs and pray to Him in praise, He will come and stand for your need.
Near this temple, adjacent to Kalakshetra buildings, is the Samadhi if Sri Pamban Swamigal, a great Muruga devotee and and also saint. He has sung 6666 verses on Muruga. His ParipurNa Panchamirta VaNNam (five songs on Muruga for abulations) is quite popular among Muruga devotees.
****
Sri Bhagavan on death and departed
souls:
Talks No. 80:
A very devoted and simple looking disciple had lost his only son, a child of three years. The next day he arrived at the Asramam with his family. The Maharshi spoke with reference to them: "Training of mind helps one to bear sorrows and bereavements with courage. But the loss of one's offspring is said to be the worst of all griefs. Grief exists only so long as one considers oneself to be of a definite form. If the form is transcended one will know that the one Self is eternal. There is no death or birth. That which is born is only the body. The body is the creation of the ego. But the ego is not ordinarily perceived without the body. It is always identified with the body. It is the thought which matters. Let the sensible man consider if he knew his body in deep sleep. Why does he feel it in the waking state? But, although the body was not felt in sleep, did not the Self exist then? How was he in deep sleep? How is he when he is awake? What is the difference? Ego rises up and that is waking. Simultaneously thoughts arise. Let him find out to whom are the thoughts. Wherefrom do they arise? They must spring up from the conscious Self. Apprehending it even vaguely helps the extinction of the ego. Thereafter the realization of the one Infinite Existence becomes possible. In that state there are no individuals other than the Eternal Existence. Hence there is no thought of death or wailing.
"If a man considers he is born he cannot avoid the fear of death. Let him find out if he has been born or if the Self has any birth. He will discover the Self always exists, that the body which is born resolves itself into thought and that the emergence of thought is the root of all mischief. Find wherefrom thoughts emerge. Then you will abide in the ever present inmost Self and be free from the idea of birth or the fear of
death."
.......
.......
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 202:
A sad looking Punjabi gentleman announced himself to Maharshi as having been directed to Him by Sri Sankaracharya of Kamakoti Peetam, from Jalesvar near Puri, Jagannath. He is a world tourist. He has practiced hatha yoga and some contemplation along the lines of 'I am Brahman'. In a few moments a blank prevails, his brain gets heated and he gets afraid of death. He wants guidance from Maharshi.
Maharshi: Who sees the blank?
Devotee: I know that I see it.
Maharshi: The consciousness overlooking the blank is the Self.
Devotee: That does not satisfy me. I cannot realize it.
Maharshi: The fear of death is only after the I-thought arises. Whose death do you fear? For whom is the fear? There is the identification of the Self with the body. So long as there is this, there will be fear.
Devotee: But I am not aware of my body.
Maharshi: Who says that he is not aware?
Devotee: I do not understand.
He was then asked to say what exactly was his method of meditation. He said: Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman).
Maharshi: 'I am Brahman' is only a thought. Who says it? Brahman itself does not say so. What need is there for it to say it? Nor can the real 'I' say so. For 'I' always abides as Brahman. To be saying it is only a thought. Whose thought is it? All thoughts are from the unreal 'I' i.e. the I-thought. Remain without thinking. So long as there is thought, there will be fear."
.....
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 251.
.......
.......
Devotee: I shall be more definite. Though a stranger I am obliged to confess the cause of my anxiety. I am blessed with children. A boy - a good brahmachari - passed away in February. I was grief stricken. I was disgusted with this life. I want to devote myself to spiritual life. But my duties as a grihini do not permit me to lead a retired life. Hence my doubt.
Maharshi: Retirement means abidance in the Self. Nothing more. It is no leaving one set of surroundings and getting entangled in another set, not even leaving the concrete world and becoming involved in a mental world.
The birth of the son, his death, etc., are seen in the Self only.
Recall the state of sleep. Were you aware of anything happening? If the son or the world be real, should they not present with you in sleep? You cannot deny your existence in sleep. Nor can you deny you were happy then. You are the same person now speaking and raising doubts. You are not happy according to you. But you were happy in sleep. What has transpired in the meantime that happiness of sleep has broken down? It is the rise of the ego. That is the new arrival in the Jagrat state. There was no ego in sleep. The birth of the ego is called the birth of the person. There is no other kind of birth. Whatever is born is bound to die. Kill the ego; there is no fear of recurring death for what is once dead. The Self remains even after the death of the ego. That is Bliss - that is Immortality.
.......
.......
****
Ulladu NaRpadu - Verse 39:
bhaddan nAn ennum matte banda mukti
chintanaigaL
bhaddan ArenRu thannaip pArkum kAl
- chiddhamAi
nitta muktan tAniRka niRkAheR
bhandha chintanai
mukti chintai mun niRkumo?
So long as the thought 'I am bound' remains, thoughts about either
bondage or liberation - release from bondage - will also be present. 'Who am I? so bound? For whom is the bondage?' - when one inquires thus, remaining within, seeking the Self to gain direct experience of being the Atman, one shines as the eternally free Atman. In such a state, if thoughts of bondage cannot rise, how then can the thoughts of mukti gained stand their ground?
In the perception of a Jnani, none is bound. In release, freed of bondage, the thought that one has gained release will also not appear. Bondage and release - a dyad pertaining to the empirical world, having meaning only in the relative plane - do not really exist. Rising and falling together all other dyads, one of the pair has only as much reality or unreality as the other.
In the egoless deep sleep state, none is perturbed by thoughts of bondage and release, thus proving that, like all other dualities, they havfe only apparent reality.
The Jiva, the product of ignorance, is the one bound. The thought of deliverance is only due to the belief in bondage. If bondage were
real it would never end. Release would arise only on account of bondage having a beginning and an end, though bondage is normally accepted as having no beginning. This proves the unreality of bondage.
Release lies in the death of the ego, the cause of thoughts of bondage and release, and in release, it will be realized that never was there bondage, none seeking release and none realized. That when bondage is done away with, the thought of release will also not remain, is the import of the line, 'can thoughts of liberation alone remain?' Sri Bhagavan often quoted from Kaivalya
Navaneetam which says, 'to say that one has gained the Atman, is like digging a pit and saying space has entered in, that is to say, he has created a new space.'
Release from the very thought is itself is release. The desire for liberation - the very obstacle to liberation - vanishing, liberation ever present is experienced.
continued...
Ulladu NaRpadu - Verse 39:
continues...
Only seekers, renouncing the desire for all the 'sense objects' of the world, thereby gaining the requisite condition of competence for mukti, alone develop the desire for liberation. a mumukshu is one, who, to the exclusion of all other thoughts, thinks of mukti alone, ever and whole-heartedly. Srutis hails mumkshus as the very abode of
dispassion and discrimination. This verse is verily Sri Bhagavan's upadesa for such high souled and ripe seekers.
The ego is responsible for all diverse thoughts. Like the inquiry 'Who am I?' for the destruction of the ego, the inquiry of 'Who is it that is said to be in bondage?' is advocated by Sri Bhagavan in the line 'By inquiring 'Who is the one so bound?' A Jnani who has destroyed his individuality and is the Self, enjoys eternal freedom. Never was he bound, nor does he feel that he has gained the state of release anew. He is aware of his inherent nature of being ever free. This Sri Bhagavan refers to by the line, 'eternally established and eternally free.'("chiddmAi nitta muktan thAn niRka"). Nothing but the Self is he. All else will become non existent as to a man who wakes up from a dream. Just as he who, after wandering all over in a dream, returning home and going to sleep, wakes from the dream to find himself in his own home, so is release. We are ever in our own Self.
A Jnani never looks on himself as the one freed and others as bound. If he has such thoughts, he cannot be termed a Jnani. In the state of deliverance where there is none apart from the Self, how can there be men bound or released? It is the
state of stilled thoughts and a moveless mind. While in ignorance, bondage and release, differences and multiplicity are all for one with thoughts. This, however, doles not mean that the transcendental state is one of insentience. It is simply the awareness of just 'being'. Release, the form of Atman, is the subsidence and destruction of individuality in the sense of 'I am the body'. The ego, itself is the bondage, can have no release. The Self, Itself ever the released, eternally free, can have
no release or bondage. Both bondage and release are contentless from the ultimate view.
continued.....
Siva Temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
Tiru eengoi malai: 621 201:
This temple is near a town called MusiRi on the bus route of Tiruchy and Namakkal. The Temple is on a hill, to reach the summit of which, there are 500 almost vertical steps.
Siva is called Maragathachaleswarar. (One who is on a hill of emerald green). Uma is called Maragathavalli Ammai (the one who is of emerald green hue).
The holy waters of the temple (Tirtham) are called Amrita Tirtham. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses. There is one line in Tiruvachakam, PoRRi Tiru Ahaval.
Siva looks like shining as if made of emerald green stone. The Tamizh name mentions the word 'ee' which means a fly. Sage Agasthya is said to have prayed to this Siva by taking the form of a fly and reaching the summit of the hill, where the temple is. Saint poet Nakkirar has got seventy verses on this temple titled Eengoi Ezhupathu and this poem is in Canon 11.
eengoi malai em enthAi poRRi -
Tiruvachakam.
Saint Jnana Sambandhar's verses are in Canon 1.
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 306.
Devotee: There is something concrete necessary to meditate upon. How shall we meditate upon 'I'?
Maharshi: We have become rooted in forms and so we require a concrete form for meditating upon. Only that which we contemplate will in the end remain over. When you contemplate the other thoughts disappear. So long as you need to contemplate there are other thoughts. Where are you? You contemplate because you exist. For the contemplator must contemplate. The contemplation can only be where he is. Contemplation wards off all other thoughts. You should merge yourself in the source. At times we merge in the source unconsciously, as in sleep, death, swoon etc., What is contemplation? It is merging into the source CONSCIOUSLY. The fear of death, of swoon etc., will disappear because you are able to merge into the Source consciously.
Why fear death? Death cannot mean non being. Why do you love sleep, but not death? Do you not think now? Are you not existing now? Did
you not exist in your sleep? Even a child says that it slept well and happily. It admits its existence in sleep, unconsciously though. So Consciousness is our true nature.
......
Again reverting to Tiruvachakam, Sri Bhagavan said: All the four foremost saints have given out their experiences in the very first stanza of their work. (1) Undifferentiated worship. (2) Never failing remembrance. (3) Unrisen thoguht. (4) The ego is not, the Self is. All mean the same.
.......
*****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 318.
A Hindi gentleman asked how the fear of death could be got over.
Maharshi: Find out if you were born before you think of death. Only he who is born could die. You are as good as dead even in sleep. What fear is there of death?
Devotee: How are we in sleep?
Maharshi: Ask the question in sleep. You recall the experience of sleep only when you are awake. You recall that state by saying 'I slept happily.'
Devotee: What is the instrument by which we experience that state?
Maharshi: We call it mayakarana as opposed to antahkarana, to which we are accustomed in our other states. The same instruments are called differently in the different states, even as the anadatman of sleep is termed the vinjnanatman of the wakeful state.
..........
******
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed
souls:
Talks No. 397:
Devotee: Fear is consequent on the possibility of non existence. It pertains to the body. One is not aware of the body in deep sleep. One is not afraid of, but courts sleep, whereas one dreads death. Why is this difference between the two outlooks?
Maharshi: Desire of sleep or fear of death are when the mind is active and not in the respective states themselves. The mind knows that the body entity persists and reappears after sleep. Therefore sleep is not attended with fear but the pleasure of non bodily existence is sought. Whereas the mind is not sure of re-appearance after the so called death and dreads it.
*****
Ulladu NARpadu - Verse 39:
continues....
A Jnani never looks on himself as the one freed and others as bound. If he has such thoughts, he cannot be termed a Jnani. (Sri Bhagavan used to ask: Where is Ajnani? There is no ajnani. All are Jnanis. You are only acting..In fact there is no Jnani also, there is only Jnanam.) In the state of deliverance where there is none apart from the Self, how can there be men bound or released? It is the state of stilled thoughts and moveless mind. While ignorance, bondage, release, differences of multiplicity are all for one with thoughts. This, however, does not mean that the transcendental state of insentience. It is simply awareness of just "being". Release, the form of Atman, is the subsidence and destruction of individuality in the sense of 'I am the body'. The ego, itself the bondage, can have no release. The Self, Itself ever the released, eternally free, can have no release or bondage. Both bondage and release are contentless from the ultimate view.
Once a gentleman asked Sri Bhagavan, 'When did you gain
mukti?' Sri Bhagavan replied: 'Nothing has happened to me, nothing new have I gained. I am forever the same. I am unchanged.'
The very same idea is the content of Verse 29 of Upadesa Undiyar also:
bandha veedaRRa parasukam uRRavARu
indha nilai niRRal undhipara
iRaipaNi niRRalAm undhipara.
Abiding in the state of bliss
Which is beyond bondage and release
Is abiding in the service of the Lord.
Great knowers recognize no other 'bondage' than the rising movement of the mind and true 'release' nowhere but in the total death of every movement of the mind. That true release is the destruction of
thoughts of bondage as well as the release is also explained in Verse 5 of Atma Bodham too.
ariyAmaiyAm kalakkam Arumuyir thooythAm
aRivup payiRchiyinAl av - vaRivum
agaRRi aRiyAmai azhiyume neer mAsu
agaRRum theRRAm podiyoppAi.
(Sri Bhagavan's Tamizh verse translation)
Through repeated practice, Knowledge purifies the embodied soul stained by ignorance, and then itself disappears as the powder of the kataka-nut* disappears after it has cleaned the muddy water.
(Tr. Swami Nikhilananda.)
*kataka nut powder - in Tamizh theRRAm podi.
The deluded Jiva gets rid of the delusion by practicing sadhanas which will lead him to the realization of the Truth. When once he becomes realized, the sadhana drops off along with the delusion like the cleaning powder settling down along with the impurity after purifying the muddy water. Thus if
knowledge, pure and true, has to shine in full splendor, the thoughts of bondage as well as release, knowledge and ignorance should also be given up.
"We are always free and never bound. To ask when we shall we gain release is like staying in Sri Ramanasramam and asking where is Sri Ramanasramam." said Sri Bhagavan.
continued....
Ulladu NARpadu - Verse 39:
continues....
Gaudapada in his Karika (ii.32) declares: There is no destruction or origination; no one bound, nor any engaged in spiritual exercise; there is no seeking, release, nor any released. This is the Supreme Truth.
Sri Bhagavan used to explain this very humorously, referring to the
performance of Panduranga Bhajan. The tradition of this performance consists of keeping a lighted brass lamp in the center and men and women gong round dancing with tinkling bells tied to the ankles and clapping hands to beat time to the song of "Pandarpur is thus far, Pandarpur is thus far. Come on proceed." It used to start early in the night and would go on until the third quarter of the night, when they could start singing, "Here we are in Pandarpur, Pandarpur is here.." Thus they would end the bhajan.
In the same way, as we go round and round in search of Atman saying, 'where is it, where is it?' till the dawn of knowledge and we say 'this is Atman, this is me.'
An interesting incident happened in the presence of Sri Bhagavan, emphasizes this upadesa. Once an Andhra gentleman approached Sri Bhagavan and very humbly beseeched,
"Bhagavan, give me some upadesa".
Bhagavan: Why should 'I' give 'you'
upadesa?
Devoteee: For my ajnana to be destroyed.
Bhagavan: Why should 'I' instruct 'you' for your ajnana to be destroyed?
Devote: Because you are a Jnani and I am an ajnani.
Bhagavan: In a Jnani's perception, there is no one who is an ajnani. With 'no one' as the 'other' how can 'I' instruct 'you' then? If as you say, considering oneself as a Jnani and another as an ajnani, one should instruct, the possession of this very bheda-buddhi itself will make him out, not as a Jnani but as an ajnani. And what is the use of such an upadesa?
The gentleman, perpelexed, remained silent for quite some time. Then in a tone of utter helplessness, marked by an intense longing to be helped he queried:
Devotee: Then, what is the way for release for such a one like me?
Sri Bhagavan sat up.
Bhagavan: But who is that 'me?
Devotee: 'Me' only, Bhagavan, 'me'.
Bhagavan: That is what I am asking, who is that me'?
Devotee: I am not able to explain or describe 'me'.
Bhagavan: Aha! So now there is one called 'me' in you whom you are not aware of. Find him out.
Muruganar, who was witnessing the entire interlocution, instantly
said: "Oh, You asked for Upadesa! Here it is." The gentleman sat very quietly for quite some time, then slowly got up, prostrated and went out. Sri Bhagavan smilingly said: It will work. When one other than a Jnani instructs, it is mere verbal sound. But when the upadesa emanates from a Jnani, the indescribable grace accompanies it, enters in and makes the jiva abide in the content of the upadesa as experience.
concluded.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
(Lesser known temples)
Tiru azhundhur - (Therazhundhur)
609 808.
This temple is about 12 kms from Mayiladuturai. When a king named Urdhuvaratan was riding a chariot, the vehicle got stuck in this place. Hence the name. Ther = chariot; azhunthu - getting stuck.
The brahmins of this place, like the famous 3000 brahmins of Chidambram, are equally famous. Tiru Jnana Sambandha says in his verse, azhunthai maRaiyor vazhipAdu
chei mA maNiye, 'O the great Ruby (Siva) who is prayed by the brahmins of azhunthur.'
Siva is called Vedapuriswarar. Uma is called SoundrAmbika. The holy waters are (Tirtham) a tank called Veda Tirtham. The holy temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Sandalwood tree. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses. In about 1 km. from this temple, there is also a famous Vishnu temple. The poet Kambar (the author of Tamizh Ramayana) is said to have born in this place.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks NO. 124:
Another impatient questioner elaborated long premises and finished asking why some children die a premature death. He required the answer not to satisfy the grown-up ones who look on, but the babies who are the victims.
Maharshi: Let the victims ask. Why do you ask and desire the answer from the standpoint of the child?
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 238.
........
........
Devotee: What happens to the man after death?
Maharshi: Engage yourself in the 'living present.' The future will take care of itself. Do not worry about the future. The state before creation and the process of creation are dealt with in the scriptures in order that you may know the present. Because you say you are born, therefore they say, yes, and add that God created you.
But do you see God or anything else in your sleep? If God be real why does He not shine forth in your sleep also? YOU ARE ALWAYS - now the same as you were in sleep. You are not different from the one in sleep as you were in sleep. You are not different from that one in sleep. But why should there be difference in the feelings or experiences of the two states?
Did you ask, while asleep, the question regarding your birth? or where do I go after death? Why think of all these now in the wakeful state? Let what is born think of its birth and the remedy, its cause and ultimate results.
What is birth? Is it of the 'I-thought' or of the body? Is 'I' separated from the body or identical with it? How did this 'I-thought' arise? Is the 'I-thought' your nature or is anything else of your nature?
Devotee: Who is to ask these questions?
Maharshi: Exactly - that is it. There is no end to it all.
Devotee: Are we then to keep quiet?
Maharshi: Doubts cease to afflict when the confusion (moha) is surpassed.
Devotee: Your statements amount to cessation of Vichara - investigation.
Maharshi: If atma vichara (self-investigation), ceases, loka vichara (world-investigation) takes its place. (Laughter in the Hall.)
Engage in Self-investigation, then the non-self will disappear. The Self will be left over. This is self investigation of the Self. The one word Self is equivalent to the mind, body, man, individual, the Supreme and all else.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about death and the departed souls:
Talks No. 242:
A Gujarati gentleman asked Sri Bhagavan: They say that choice is offered to us to enjoy merits or demerits after our death. Their succession will be according to our choice. Is it so?
Maharshi: Why raise these questions relating to events after death? Why ask 'Was I born? Am I reaping the fruits of my past karma,' and so on? They will not be raised sometime hence when you fall asleep. Why? Are you now different from the one in sleep? You are not.
Why do these questions arise now and not in sleep? Find out.
****
Ulladu nArpadu - Verse 40:
uruvam aruvam uruvaruvam moonRAm
uRum mukti ennil uraippan - uruvam
aruvam uruvaruvam Ayum ahanthai
uru azhirthal mukti uNar.
If one opines that mukti which a Jnani attains on release may be threefold - mukti with form, mukti without form, and mukti with and without form - I will declare the Truth. The form of ego that investigates whether mukti is with form, or without form or with and without form, totally extinguished, the state which remains is real deliverance. Know it thus.
Those who have not experienced the state of release - ajnanis - who are under the sway of ego alone indulge in investigations of this kind. The ego-mind tries to comprehend indirectly through inference and debates, with the imperfect and limited equipment of the mind, what is beyond the reach of the comprehension of the mind. It can be known directly only in a state where the mind is made extinct - a state without the medium of the mind. Atman is the substance of direct experience as 'Being' and can never be an object of mental comprehension. Liberated souls never get involved in such discussions or speak on this. The mind attempting know the state of liberation, becoming non existent, is mukti. Life life becoming extinct with the head being severed, with the loss of ego, all differences get wiped out. Hence arguing thus is just an extended expression of the heavily entrenched jiva-bhava of identifying one with a body.
Scriptures speak of different forms of mukti. Jivan mukti and Videha mukti are one type of classification.
The scriptures also speak of-
sAloka mukti - residing as a divine subject, in the divine world of the god, is sAlokyam. The state of sAmipam is remaining in the close vicinity of the Lord, rendering service to Him in such a divine world. sArupuyam is obtaining the form akin to that of the Lord in the divine world. sAyujuam is total merger with godhead, in total bodiless, egoless state.
continued.....
Ulladu NARpadu - Verse 40:
It is totally unreal to state that mukti is with form, for Atman is formless. The other opinion, of mukti being formeless, also cannot be true, for the ego which talks of egolessness is very much there. That the formless mukti can take form at will is also unreal. In the formless state, to will to have a form presupposes the existence of a mind. As the no-mind state alone is liberation, this is also unreal.
Speculations and dialectics on the forms of release will not by themselves grant one the essence of spiritual experience. Therefore Sri Bhagavan says, 'What does it matter of what nature is mukti is? Instead of getting involved in debates of such kinds, engage in sadhana to gain it, and after attainment, know directly how it is.'
Unless the ego, which knows by objectifying, dies, the fetters that bind the jiva cannot be undone. Sri Bhagavan affirms that the state of bliss is release from objectified knowledge. The aim of Vedanta is the annihilation of the ego. In short, there is no other bondage than the rising of the movements of the mind, and true release is to remain as Awareness like a wave less sea resting in moveless Grace. This is the essence of all religions and a harmonized perception of the Truth.
This is the incomparable and most elevating gift of Sri Bhagavn to the realms of philosophy and spirituality.
Ulladu NARpadu starts with the word uLLaporuL, That which IS. How to realize That which IS. It is by annihilating the ego, - ahantha uru azhithal -.
Realization is nothing but the conquest of ego.
Verse 40 completed.
Sri Ramanarpanamastu.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru Pazhanam - 613 204.
This temple, one of the seven temples which are said to be a 'group' - all near to each other -, is on the bus route from Kumbakonam to TiruvaiyARu. It is about 4 kms from TiruvaiyARu. ARu means river, Ai means five. The river Kaveri branches out into five small rivers in this area.
Siva is called AbhatsakAyar, one who is of help during dangers. Uma is called Periya Nayaki, the great goddess. The holy waters (tirtham) are of course, river Kaveri. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Plantain tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 50 of his verses.
ThingaLoor is quite close by, in about 3 kms. The saint Appoothi AdigaL, one of the 63 Saiva Saints lived here. Appoothi AdigaL, even without seeing Tiru Navukkarasar, held him as his guru and prayed to him. He names his sons as Tiru Navukkarasu only. When Tiru Navukkarasar came to ThingaLoor, AdigaL's joy knew no bounds. He invited him for food. While picking a plantain leaf for the guest, AdigaL's son Tiru Navukkarasu was stung by a serpent and Tiru Navukkarasar raised the boy from death, by his verses.
Tiru Pazhanam is incidentally my native village. My father studied in TiruvaiyAru High School by walking 4 kms up and down everyday!
*****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 247:
.......
Devotee: What is the state just before death?
Maharshi: When a person gasps for breath, it indicates that the person is unconscious of this body; another body has been held and the person swings to and fro. While gasping there is more a more violent gasp at intervals and that indicates the oscillation between the two bodies due to the present attachment not having been completely snapped. I noticed it in the case of my mother and of Pazhaniswami.
Devotee: Does the new body involved in that state represent the next reincarnation of the person?
Maharshi: Yes. While gasping, the person is in something like a dream, not aware of the present environment.
.........
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 270:
Mr. G.V. Subbaramiah, a lecturer in English in Nellore, asked: Brahman is the one by whom all this is pervaded (yena sarvamidam thatham). But then how does Sri Krishna specify the Vibhutis in Chapter X of Bhagavad Gita?
Maharshi: The specifications are in reply to a definite question by Arjuna, who required to know the Lord's Vibhutis for convenience of worship, (upasana soukaryam). The fact is that God is all. There is nothing apart from Him.
Devotee: The individual is said to give up decayed bodies (jirnani sarirani) and to take up new ones (navani). Would the statement apply to infant deaths also?
Maharshi: You do not know, in the first place, what is jirani and what is navani. Secondly, jirna and nava are relative terms. What is old to a king may be new to a beggar. The truth is that the individuality signifies the state of embodiment till the time of liberation!
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 276:
The U.P. lady arrived with her brother, a woman companion and a burly bodyguard. When she came into the Hall, she saluted Maharshi with great respect and feeling, and sat down on a wool blanket in front of Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan was then reading Trilinga in Telugu on the reincarnation of a boy. The boy is now thirteen year old and reading in the Government High School in a village near Lucknow. When he was three years old he used to dig here and there; when asked, he would say that he was trying to recover something which he had hidden in the earth. When he was four year old, a marriage function was celebrated in his home. When leaving, the guests humorously remarked that they would return for this boy's marriage. But he turned round and said: "I am already married. I have two wives." When
asked to point them out, he requested to be taken to a certain village, and there he pointed to two women as his wives! It is now learnt that a period of ten months elapsed between the death of their husband and the birth of this boy!
When this was mentioned to the lady, she asked if it was possible to know the after death state of an individual.
Sri Bhagavan said, "some are born immediately after, others after some lapse of time, a few are not reborn on this earth but eventually get salvation in some higher region, and a very few get absolved here and now."
She: I do not mean that. Is it possible to know the condition of an individual after his death?
Maharshi: It is possible. But why try to know it? All facts are only as true as the seeker.
She: The birth of a person, his being and death are real to us.
Maharshi: Because you have wrongly identified your own self with the body, you think of the other one in terms of the body. Neither you nor the other is the body.
She: But from my own level of understanding I consider myself and my son to be real.
Maharshi: The birth of the 'I-thought' is one's own birth, its
death is the person's death. After the I-thought has arisen the wrong identity with the body arises. Thinking yourself the body, you give false values to others and identify them with bodies. Just as your body has been born, grows and will perish, so also you think the other was born, grew up and died. Did you think of your son before his birth? The thought came after his birth and persists even after his death. Inasmuch as you are thinking of him, he is your son. Where has he gone? He has gone to the source from which he sprang. He is one with you. So long as you are, he is there too. If you cease to identify yourself with the body, but see the real Self, this confusion will vanish. You are eternal. The others also will similarly be found to be eternal. Until this truth is realized there will always be this grief due to false values arising from wrong knowledge and wrong identity.
continued....
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 276 - continues...
She: Let me have the true knowledge by Sri Bhagavan's Grace.
Maharshi: Get rid of the 'I-thought'. So long as 'I' is alive, there is grief. When 'I' ceases to exist, there is no grief. Consider the state of sleep!
She: Yes. But when I take the I-thought, other thoughts arise and disturb me.
Maharshi: See whose thoughts they are. They will vanish. They have their root in the single 'I-thought'. Hold to it and they will disappear. Again the Maharshi pointed out to the story of Punya and Papa in Yoga Vasishta, V. Ch. 20, where Punya consoles Papa on the death of their parents and turns him to realizing the Self. Further, creation is to be considered in its two aspects, Iswara Srishti (god's creation) and jiva srishti (individual's creation). Of these two, the universe is the former and its relation to the individual is the latter. It is the latter which
gives rise to pain and pleasure, irrespective of the former. A story was mentioned from Panchadasi.
........
........
After a few minutes, she pointed out that she had intended to ask Maharshi about the death and matters relating to it but did not however do it. Yet Maharshi was reading the related matter in the newspaper and the same topic came for enlightenment. She left after seeing the Cow Lakshmi.
concluded.
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 426:
.......
.......
Devotee: Are intellect and emotion, like the physical body, growths which come with the birth of man; and do they dissolve or survive after death?
Maharshi: Before considering what happens after death, just consider what happens in your sleep. Sleep is only the interval between two waking states. Do they survive that interval?
Devotee: Yes, they do.
Maharshi: The same holds good for death also. They represent body-
consciousness and nothing more. If you are the body they always hold on to you. If you are not the body they do not affect you. The one who was in sleep is now in waking state just speaking. You were not the body in sleep. Are you the body now? Find it out. Then the whole problem is solved.
Similarly, that which is born must die. Whose is the birth? Were you born? If you say you were, of whose birth are you speaking? It is the body which was born and it is that which will die. How do birth and death affect the eternal Self?
Think and say to whom the questions arise. Then you will know.
*****
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
AaduthuRai - 612 101.
This temple is on the bus route Kumbakonam and MayiladuthuRai. This is a large temple, but not yet renovated for years. Sugriva and Hanuman of Ramayana is said to have prayed to this Siva.
Siva is called AbhatsakAyar, one who helps in dangers. Uma is called PavaLakodi Ammai, the lady who is like Pavala creeper. The tirtham (holy waters) is river Kaveri. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 11 of his verses.
About 1.5 kms from this temple is the Suryanar Temple, where there is
a large shrine of Surya, the Sun. Devotees who have the sun in a malefic position in their horoscopes worship here.
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 129:
An elderly gentleman, a co-worker with B.V. Narasimha Swami and author of some Visishtadvaita work, visited the place for the first time. He asked about rebirths, if it is possible for the linga sarira (subtle body) to get dissolved and be reborn in two years after death.
Maharshi: Yes. Surely. Not only one can be reborn, one may be twenty or forty or even seventy years old in the new body though only two years after death. Sri Bhagavan cited Lila's story from Yoga Vaisishta.
****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 279:
Devotee: How long does it take a man to be reborn after death? Is it immediately after death or sometime after?
Maharshi: You do not know what you were before birth, yet you want to know what you will be after death. Do you know what you are now? Birth and rebirth pertain to the body. You are identifying the Self with the body. It is a wrong identification. You believe that the body has been born and will die, and confound the phenomena relating to the one with the other. Know your real being and these questions will not arise.
Birth and death are mentioned only to make you investigate the question and find out that there are neither births nor rebirths. They relate to the body and not to the Self. Know the self and be not perturbed by doubts.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 487.
........
........
Maharshi: The idea that I am the body or the mind is so deep that one cannot get over it even if convinced otherwise. One experiences a dream an d knows to be unreal on waking. Waking experience is unreal in other states. So each state contradicts the others. They are therefore mere changes taking place in the seer or phenomena appearing in the Self, which is unbroken and remains unaffected by them. Just as the waking, dream and sleep states are phenomena, so also birth, growth and death are phenomena in the Self, which continues to be unbroken and unaffected. Birth and death are only ideas. They pertain to the body or the mind. The Self exists before the birth of this body and will remain after death of this body. So it is with the series of bodies taken up in succession. The Self is immortal. The phenomena are changeful and appear mortal. The fear of death is of the body. It is not true of the Self. Such fear is due to ignorance. Realization means True Knowledge of the Perfection and Immortality of the Self. Mortality is only an idea and cause of misery. You get rid of it by realizing the Immortal nature of the Self.
******
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 567:
Sri Bhagavan was explaining to Mr. McIver the first few stanzas of Sad Vidya.....
He said: All know that they must die sometime or other; but they do not think deeply of the matter. All have a fear of death. Such fear is momentary. Why fear death? Because of the I-am-the-body idea.
All are fully aware of the death of the body and its cremation. That the body is lost in death is well known. Owing to the 'I am the body' notion, death is feared as being the loss of Oneself. Birth and death pertain to the body only; but they are superimposed on the Self, giving rise to the delusion that birth and death relate to the Self.
In the effort to overcome birth and death, man looks up to the Supreme Being to save him. Thus are born faith and devotion to the Lord. How to worship Him? The creature is powerless and the Creator is All-Powerful. How to approach Him? To entrust oneself to His care is the only thing left for him. Total surrender is the only way. Therefore he surrenders himself to the Lord. Surrender consists in giving up oneself and one's possessions to the Lord of Mercy. then what is left over for the man? Nothing - neither himself nor his possessions. The body likable to be born and to die having been made over to the Lord, the man need no longer worry about it. Then birth and death cannot strike terror. The cause of fear was the body; it is no longer his. Why should we fear now? Or where is the identity of the individual to be frightened?
Thus the Self is realized and Bliss results.
......
******
Sri Bhagavan about death and departed souls:
Talks No. 572:
Devotee: Of what use is the fear of death which is common to all?
Maharshi: True. It is common to all. Such fear serves no useful purpose because being overpowered by the latent tendencies of the mind the man dies a natural death. It does not lead him to non attachment and he cannot investigate the matter.
Devote: How then are you giving the same instruction without distinction to visitors?
Maharshi: What do I say? The ego in each one must die. Let him reflect on it. Is there this ego or is there not? By repeated reflection one becomes more and more fit.
******
Friends,
For those who understand Tamil,I warmly recoomend 'Sri annAmalai swamigal aruL vAkku'(Sri aNNAmalai swamigaL's words of Grace)-This is a small booklet that has 100 sayings of aNNAmalai swAmi that was published during swami's lifetime.This is available for just RS 10/-(published in 1995,the first edition was published in 1978)) in Sri Ramanasramam Book stall.
The preface is by the well known Tamil scholar/devotee kee vaa JagannAthan.
This booklet is all that a seeker needs and wonderfully brings out the essence of sAdhana in an utterly simple manner,so typical of annamalai swami.
Namaskar.
Maha Sivaratri - 20.02.2012.
Today is observed Maha Sivaratri, the Great Night of Siva. It occurs every year in the month of Kumbha (Feb.-Mar.) on the Krishna Paksha chaturdasi, that is, fourteen digit day of waning moon.
This day, rather the night, is celebrated in all Siva temples with abhishekam, alankaram and arti to Siva Lingam. These are done about four times starting from 11.00 pm. tonight to 5.00 am. tomorrow morning.
The night is characterized by observance of chanting of Siva's names, full night vigil without sleep, and even total fasting on this day. Many Saiva and Advaita devotees observe these rituals, if not all, at least the first one.
The Puranic story must be well known to all devotees of Sri Bhagavan. Arunachala of ancient fame, assuming the wonderful and effulgent form of Linga, appeared for the first time on the auspicious day of Ardra star in the month of Dhanur, (Nov.- Dec.) The day Vishnu, Brahma and Indra and other devas praised and worshipped the Lord in the form of resplendent Light is the auspicious occasion of Sivaratri in the Tamizh month of Kumbha (MAsi) during midnight.
Lingotbhava or the appearance of Linga (from the column of Light, which could not be fathomed by Brahma and Vishnu, is the night of today.
The celebrations are observed in all Siva temples, particularly in Chidambaram, Tiruvannamalai, Tiruvarur, Kanchipuram and Kalahasti and many other lesser known temples too. In the Asramam (though I had not been there on any Sivaratri night) there should be abulations and adornment and arti for both Sri Matrubhuteswara Lingam and Sri Ramaneswara Mahalingam.
****
Sivaratri and Muruganar:
Muruganar was not eating in the Asramam and was going for bhiksha to the town daily. Since he could not contribute any money to the Asramam, he refrained from eating in the Asramam. It so happened that one day, he did not go for bhiksha for some reason and on the next day, Sri Bhagavan called him for giri pradakshina. Sri Bhagavan on seeing Muruganar's face found out that he had fasted on the previous day. He asked Muruganar: Did you not eat yesterday? Was it because it was Sivaratri? Muruganar did not even know that the previous day was
Sivaratri! Sri Bhagavan then took him to the Asramam and made him eat, asking the kitchen workers to serve him in abundant quantity of food.
Saint Manikkavachagar describes his state in UyiruNNi Pathu (Decad on the killer of the ego) in Tiruvachakam:
enai nAn enbadhu arRiyen pahal
iravAvathum aRiyen
mana vasakam kadanthAn ennai
mathonmathAkki....
(Verse 3)
I do not know who I am. I do not when the day becomes night. He, who is beyond mind and words, made me a great madman like Him.....
Muruganar must have been in that state!
Muruganar speaks about what is Sivaratri in Verse 459 of Guru Vachaka Kovai:
Through the destruction of the doltish ego, the triputis that are based on it fade away and end, along with sakala (the waking and dream states). The pure (suddha) state of day light that (then) shines forever is Sivaratri.
The pure state (suddha nilai) exists as unceasing pure being in the Heart (uLLam) after the other
thoughts that rise from oneself (vikshepa) and the Self-forgetfulness (avarana) that is the basis for their rising are fully destroyed.
(Comm: David Godman)
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Sivaratri:
In Talks No. 218, Sri Bhagavan says
about Sivaratri:
Maharshi has been looking into the Siva Purana this day. He says:
Siva has the transcendental and immanent aspects as represented by His invisible, transcendental being and the linga aspects respectively.
The Linga originally manifested as Arunachala stands even today. This manifestation was when the moon was in the constellation of Orion (Ardra) in December. However it was worshipped on Sivaratri day which is held sacred even now.
In the sphere of speech Pranava (the mystic sound AUM) represents transcendental (nirguna) and the Panchakshari (the five syllabled mantra) represents the immanent aspect (saguna).
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Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
Tiru pAdiripuliyur 607 002:
This is now one part of the Cuddalore town, in Tamizh Nadu.
Siva is called PAdaleeswarar or ThonRathunai Nathar, the one who is the support without showing Himself. Uma is called Brahan Nayaki or Periya Nayaki, Brahath = Large. The holy waters (tirtham) is Kedila river. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is PAdihiri
tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 10 of his verses. In the near by sea, Tiru Navukkarasar was made to drown, having been tied to a big stone. This was done by the king, on the advice of Jains, because he had left their math and gone back to his sister and was worshipping Siva. Tiru Navukkarasar sang his Namasivaya Padigam, starting with the verse 'SoRRuNai Vediyan..' and was placed by Siva on the shore. The village where he came to the shore, is today called KaraiyeRa vitta kuppam, a village of fishermen. The king realized the saint's greatness. The saint stayed there for some more time and prayed to Siva with his 'eeNaruLumAi...' decad.
Since VyagrapAda stayed here and prayed to Siva this place is called Puliyur, since the sage had tiger's legs. This VyagrapAda is said to be watching Siva's dance in Chidambaram, with tiger's legs and climbing a tree to watch the dance from a height. One more sage called MangaLa Muni was cursed for some mistake and he got paralyzed legs and a form of a rabbit. He prayed to this Siva and got back his human form.
Jnana Sambandhar refers to the MangaLa Muni's story in his 2.121.1. Munna ninRa mudakkAn muyaRku aruL seithu neeL....
Tiru Navukkarasar's song says:
eenRALumai enakku enthaiyumAi aayudan thonRinarAi.....
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Sri Bhagavan about Maya, the universal illusion:
Talks No. 20:
Mr. Evans-Wentz asked some questions:
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Devotee: What does Maharshi think of the theory of universal illusion? (Maya)
Maharshi: What is Maya? It is only
Reality!
Devotee: Is not Maya illusion?
Maharshi: Maya is used to signify the manifestations of the Reality. Thus Maya is only Reality.
Devotee: Some say that Sri Sankaracharya was only intellecutal and not realized. Is it so?
Maharshi: Why worry about Sankaracharya? Realize your own Self. Others can take care of themselves.
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Sri Bhagavan about Maya:
Talks No. 28:
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Devotee: In what sense is happiness our real nature?
Maharshi: Perfect Bliss is Brahman. Perfect Peace is of the Self. That alone exists and is conscious. The same conclusion is arrived at: (a) judged metaphysically, and (b) inferred by bhakti marga (path of devotion).
We pray to God for Bliss and receive it by Grace. The bestower of bliss must be Bliss itself and also Infinite. Therefore, Iswara is the Personal God of infinite power and bliss. Brahman is Bliss, impersonal and absolute. The finite egos, deriving their source from Brahman and then Iswara, are in their spiritual nature bliss only. Biologically, an organism functions because such functions are attended with happiness.
It is pleasure that helps our growth; food, exercise, rest, and gregarious qualities. The psychology and metaphysics of pleasure is perhaps this: Our nature is primarily one, entire, blissful. Take this as a probable hypothesis. Creation is by the entire godhead breaking into God and Nature (maya or prakriti). This Maya is of the two parts; para = the supporting essence and apara = the five elements, mind, intellect and ego (eightfold).
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Dear Ravi,
I have not seen this book Annamalai Swamiyin AruL vAkku in the Asramam book depot when I had been there on 17 - 19, January 2012. Most of the books that were held at Swami's Palakottu Ashram have been brought to Sri Ramanasramam, after the trustees of Palakottu Ashram made over the properties of Swami's Ashram to Sri Ramanasramam. Perhaps I did not notice the bookstand properly. Sri Ramanasramam may also bring forth a fresh reprint if the old edition is fully sold out. They wait for some feed back or inquiry as to whether a particular book is available. Then considering the demand they make reprints.
Iswara Gita (Tamizh) was like that. After inquiry by several visitors/devotees including me, for that book, they got it reprinted and I could find the new edition, say after six months, during one of my later visits.
Subramanian. R
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