The previous 'Open Thread' appear to be malfunctioning by posting each comment twice. I am starting a new one to see if that solves the problem.
I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.
If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.
I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.
If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.
5,000 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2801 – 3000 of 5000 Newer› Newest»Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings -
excerpts:
Sri Bhagavan was a perfect Impersonality, like the Sun in the sky or like unnoticed daylight in an an inner chamber. People speak to one another, freely and frankly in His presence, as if the figure on the couch were a statue, not a listener. It was natural to refer him as It, instead of You or He. Thus every conversation in the Old Hall turned out to be a truly Socratic dialogue. Every statement was tentative and therefore poetic. No statement was dogmatic, eristic or polemical. This impersonal Being
would suddenly become a Person full of Sattvic power, highly human, charming, mother like, who could communicate with sharp precision of His own Awareness-Bliss to other persons according to their needs and moods. The Sun now came down and played with us as the light of the moon to illumine the mind, or as the fire in the home to cook our food.
No wonder, the devotees differed much on who He was. In fact there were as many Bhagavans as there were devotees. In 1965, Devaraja Mudaliar and I met Mrs. Taleyarkhan and tried to persuade her to change
some of her ideas on Sri Bhagavan and His message. Her prompt, decisive reply settled the matter once for all. "My Bhagavan is my Bhagavan. He is not your Bhagavan."
Why not? We look at the firmament through our own little individual windows of perception. How can we know it in its vastness until we case to be our petty selves? In this sense, the only persons who knew really Sri Bhagavan and taught the truth about Him were the humble people who in silence served Him and His devotees, and the inspired
poet Muruganar who had emptied himself and become a hollow reed through which flowed the rich music of Sri Bhagavan's manifold Being and the clear outline of His teaching.
*****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
In those war years, Sri Aurobindo advised all out support to the Allies and the War effort. Gandhi prescribed individual satyagraha. The volte face of the Communists, the fanatic fury of the communalists, the common, craven clinging to one's bread and butter, added confusion to the prevailing chaos.
But here in the Asramam, there was not only peace serene, but clarity and certitude. Everyone found the light to discover, and gained the strength to perform, his Svadharma.
Young men going to the Front and patriots going to jail sought and secured Sri Bhagavan's blessings before proceeding to their chosen field of action.
When O.P. Ramaswami Reddiar asked for Sri Bhagavan's permission to court imprisonment, the answer was a question. 'Are you sure that Gandhi would approve?' When He was assured that Reddiar was only carrying out Gandhi's orders, He smiled and said: "When Gandhi obeys Rama and you obey Gandhi, it is all right. No one should say, 'I fought for freedom of my country.' Gandhi does not hate the British. He is only against foreign rule." Yes. Gandhi's fight was clean, aseptic, like a surgical operation. And even foreign rule was not our Enemy No. 1. It was the ego.
The same lesson was taught during a
September vacation when R.R. Kaithan, the Gandhian social worker was in the Asramam. Here the lesson was: Not even poverty was our Enemy No.1, it was the ego.
......
And Gandhi presents again the same old, eternal Ramana gold, when he says: "Once we have realized that this whole universe exists in God, how can there be any problem of violence and non violence for us? We would feel even thieves and tigers to be ourselves. ..It is man's nature to be good, for all selves are one. When this is realized, man's ego melts away."
****
R.Subramanian/Friends,
"This impersonal Being
would suddenly become a Person full of Sattvic power, highly human, charming, mother like, who could communicate with sharp precision of His own Awareness-Bliss to other persons according to their needs and moods."
This is what AndAL refers to in the very first verse of TiruppAvai:
kArmEniCHchengaN kathir madhiyam pOl mugathAn .
meaning He whose complexion is dark as the Rain cloud,whose eyes are balanced in justice and fairplay,'Whose visage mirrors the Effulgent sun and moon'.
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Solitude and holy company
MASTER: "It is extremely difficult to practise spiritual discipline and at the same time lead
a householder's life. There are many handicaps: disease, grief, poverty, misunderstanding
with one's wife, and disobedient, stupid, and stubborn children. I don't have to give you a
list of them.
"But still there is a way out. One should pray to God, going now and then into solitude, and
make efforts to realize Him."
NEIGHBOUR: "Must one leave home then?"
MASTER: "No, not altogether. Whenever you have leisure, go into solitude for a day or
two. At that time don't have any relations with the outside world and don't hold any
conversation with worldly people on worldly affairs. You must live either in solitude or in
the company of holy men."
NEIGHBOUR: "How can one recognize a holy man?"
MASTER: "He who has surrendered his body, mind, and innermost self to God is surely a
holy man. He who has renounced 'woman and gold' is surely a holy man. He is a holy man
who does not regard woman with the eyes of a worldly person. He never forgets to look
upon a woman as his mother, and to offer her his worship if he happens to be near her. The
holy man constantly thinks of God and does not indulge in any talk except about spiritual
things. Furthermore, he serves all beings, knowing that God resides in everybody's heart.
These, in general, are the signs of a holy man."
NEIGHBOUR: "Must one always live in solitude?"
MASTER: "Haven't you seen the trees on the foot-path along a street? They are fenced
around as long as they are very young; otherwise cattle destroy them. But there is no longer
any need of fences when their trunks grow thick and strong. Then they won't break even if
an elephant is tied to them. Just so, there will be no need for you to worry and fear if you
make your mind as strong as a thick tree-trunk. First of all try to acquire discrimination.
Break the jack-fruit open only after you have rubbed your hands with oil; then its sticky
milk won't smear them."
continued...
Friends,
The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...
NEIGHBOUR: "What is discrimination?"
MASTER: "Discrimination is the reasoning by which one knows that God alone is real and
all else is unreal. Real means eternal, and unreal means impermanent. He who has acquired
discrimination knows that God is the only Substance and all else is non-existent. With the
awakening of this spirit of discrimination a man wants to know God. On the contrary, if a
man loves the unreal-such things as creature comforts, name, fame, and wealth, then he
doesn't want to know God, who is of the very nature of Reality. Through discrimination
between the Real and the unreal one seeks to know God.
"Listen to a song:
Come, let us go for a walk, O mind, to Kali, the Wish-fulfilling Tree,
And there beneath It gather the four fruits of life.
Of your two wives, Dispassion and Worldliness,
Bring along Dispassion only, on your way to the Tree,
And ask her son Discrimination about the Truth. . . .
"By turning the mind within oneself one acquires discrimination, and through
discrimination one thinks of Truth. Then the mind feels the desire to go for a walk to Kali,
the Wish-fulfilling Tree. Reaching that Tree, that is to say, going near to God, you can
without any effort gather four fruits, namely, dharma, artha, kama, and moksha. Yes, after
realizing God, one can also get, if one so desires, dharma, artha, and kama, which are
necessary for leading the worldly life."
Namaskar.
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
In Verses 26 and 27 of the Supplement to the Forty Verses, Ulladu Narpadu, Sri Bhagavan translates the instruction given to Sri Rama by his preceptor, the Sage Vasishta. The theme is the right relation between awareness and heroic action, between moksha and dharma. The paradox that has baffled many thinkers for over a century now is: How does it happen that the land that has produced an A-1 metaphysics and mythology, the land of Sri Sankara and Sri Ramanuja, of the Ramayana and Mahabharata, has also managed to produce Z-26 society, full of injustice, inequality, selfishness and cowardice?
One clear explanation is provided in Verses 3,5, and 16-30 of Upadesa Undiyar. Selfless and heroic action is both the seed and the fruit, the beginning and the end of spiritual growth. These verses are didactic and direct, and only widen the gap between the intellectuals and the masses, the 'mediators' and the toilers.
In 1944, when the proofs of the third edition of Ulladu Narpadu were being corrected in His presence, some of us (scrupulous scholars) found fault with the introductory note of WHO (Lakshmana Sarma): "To the question how the sadhaka (aspirant) is to behave in the world till he succeeds in attaining Jnana, the answer is given in the two following verses taken from Yoga Vasishta."
The two verses may be summed up thus:
Holding firmly at heart to the truth of your Being, play like a hero your part in the world-stage, inwardly calm and detached, but assuming zeal and joy, excitement and aversion, initiative and
effort, and performing outward actions appropriate to your particular role in various situations."
Now we (fine fellows and fully qualified college teachers!) pointed out the obvious absurdity of the Pudukottai Lawyer's suggestion that Sri Rama, the avatar of Vishnu and Nitya Mukta, needed this teaching?
"Who has these doubts?" enquired Sri Bhagavan. Someone mentioned my name and then the cool bright beam of His glance pierced my eyes as He said, smiling, "Look. It is for you
(Paar, unakkuthtaan.)" This teaching is for me!
.....
.....
Sri Rama, the mukta, enacts the poem of his earthly life, playi9ng his heroic roles, as son, brother, husband, ruler. Poetry can not only be written and read; it can also be lived and enjoyed. The line that divided the aesthetic and practical is, like the equator, imaginary. What after all is a poem? An expression of disinterested joy, an
experience of someone else's agony or ecstasy as if it were one's own. A momentary manifestation in word or deed of our eternal Being.
Sri Bhagavan was a perfect rasajna and with His high authority, taught again the lesson I had learnt from my teacher, D.S. Sarma, that literature provides a safe and pleasant two way bridge between Paramartha and Vyavahara.
*****
Dear hema,
Nice. His form is like dark rain bearing clouds, His eyes are red
(Kamala KaNNan), His face is like the
bright effulgent sun and the cool moon. Bright eye shattering Sun for Kamsa and Sisupala. Cool moon like eye for Draupdadi and Arjuna.
Paramartha and Vyavahara are like a two way bridge!
Nice.
Subramanian.
Dear Ravi,
Nice. If you reach godhead, all
purushartha come readily.
Subramanian. R
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Sri Bhagavan listened like a child to passages from Shakespeare's plays and Keats' letters and quickly convincingly revealed the universal truth in each flower, unique in its own beauty. On Keats' letter on 'negative capability' His passing comment was: "So there are Upanishads in English as in Sanskrit." The nightingale whose song Keats heard - Ode to Nightingale - (stanza 1) and the immortal bird not born for death (stanza 7) are the same two birds mentioned in the Upanishad, one eating the fruit, the other looking on. After a passage from Shakespeare was read, discussed and duly praised, He uttered words to this effect: "The Self as Joy alone exists. As Shakespeare, it enjoyed writing this, and now, it enjoys reading it."
How literature enable us to enjoy Eternity in time and lifts us unawares from time into Eternity came out clearly in a dialogue between Dr. U.V. Swaminatha Iyer, a Tamizh savant and Sri Bhagavan. The ripe old scholar complained: "People tell us to give up PaRRu (attachment). But I am not able to give up Tamizh PaRRu. Sri Bhagavan promptly countered: "But who askedd you to give up Siva PaRRu or Tamizh PaRRu?" What is Siva but poetry, the creator and the creation of Ananda?
{Innisai Veenaiyar yazhinar oru pal
Irukkodu thothiram iymabinar oru pal...On the one side, devotees play veena and yazh and on another side, devotees chant Rks.- Sanskrit mantras and some other devotees
sing, thotthiram - Tamizh poems! - Manikkavachagar, Tiru PaLLi Ezhucchi.}
No wonder then that Sri Bhagavan not only permitted and encouraged Muruganar in his copious outpourings but also often joined him in playing the grand game of rhyming and chiming in worlds that double a common joy. Was He not
the sole begetter of thousands of marvelous poems by Muruganar and so many others?
*****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
In the early forties, Prof. Madan Gopal was a frequent visitor to the Asramam. He knew German and would translate into English, articles in German. In one such article the famous psychologist Carl Jung had contrasted Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Bhagavan and saw in this succession the progressive advance from bhakti to jnana. On hearing this, Sri Bhagavan promptly sat erect and protested against the comparison, saying: "When one has reached the mountain top, no matter from what side or by what path, one knows and understands all other paths. What is there that Sri Ramakrishna did not know?"
In like manner, He deprecated comparisons attempted by Prof. G.V. Subbaramayya and other devotees, between Himself as a Jnani and the Mahatma Gandhi as a 'mere karma yogi'. The eye that sees and the hand that works are alike organs of one and the same Eternal Goodness.
He saw only Adyatma Sakti working everywhere. Different persons perform different functions. Arranging them in an order of merit is the mischief of the ego.,
*******
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
A frequent topic of discussion, especially when Muruganar was in the Hall, was the peculiar power of some Tamizh words, in helping one's sadhana. The first invocatory verse of the Forty Verses, dwells lovingly on the Tamizh root 'uL' common to being, thinking, heart, and inner space, all connoting indivisible oneness and wholeness. The verb 'uL' (to be) admits of no past or future tense and stands for the Being beyond time as well as in the present time. The repeated use of the words uLLadu (that which is), uLLu (think) and uLLam (heart) pulls the mind to pure Being Awareness. Likewise the pronouns taan (itself, the Self) force the Tamizh speakers unawares to stay tethered to one's universal Being as well as all inclusive Awareness. Sri Bhagavan and Muruganar love to play on the words naan, naam ('we' meaning 'you' and 'I') of Sri Bhagavan laughingly claimed Nammazhwar as 'our own, the Advaits's own' not merely 'theirs' (Sri Vaishnavites) alone. Far from differing from or being opposed to Advaita and Vaishnavism or Visishtadvaita is 'specialized, modified, applied advaita, Being as Becoming or action.' When someone insisted on the separateness of the two modes of advaita, He said:
" You may claim proudly that you live in Mylapore and not Madras. But where is Mylapore if not in Madras?" And have not the Azhwars themselves sung of the oneness of Siva and Vishnu and recognized both identity and difference between devotee and God? Does not Tirumazhisai Azhwar rejoince the dual role, "Myself you are, and yet you are my Master too, O Rama!"
The usage Tanmai, Munnilai and Padarkai - Tanmai - being such, suchness, essence, is the first person. Munnialai is one who is standing in front, what I see before me, the second person. Padarkai (extension) is the third person. This usage implies that 'I' or the Self is the origin, the starting point and permanent core of all being. Unarve Naamai uLam.
****
By Rainer Maria Rilke
(1875 - 1926)
Ah, not to be cut off,
not through the slightest partition
shut out from the law of the stars.
The inner -- what is it?
if not the intensified sky,
hurled through with birds and deep
with the winds of homecoming
Friends,
I have posted this before.Yet,it is certainly useful to post this again-The story of Swami jnAnAnanda by Malcolm Tillis.
Here is an excerpt:
Swami Jnanananda Giri
Barlow Ganj
Mussoorie
15th December 1980
Swamiji walks me part of the way up the hill back to Landour. He is giving me more advice. I realize an important point: an Interviewer should never talk about his own guru or path — unless asked. All disciples believe they have the greatest guru in the world so it’s unlikely they will want to know about yours anyway.
Swamiji is telling me a story:
"I was invited to visit an Ashram…the guru was having a tremendous success abroad. One of the devotees asked me: What do you think of our guru? I replied: Nothing! Stunned offence. Our guru is God in human form — the devotee protested. I asked: What do you think of my guru? They didn’t know who my guru is. Then I said: Just as you don’t know anything about my guru, I don’t know anything about yours — but in fact, there’s no such thing as my guru or your guru…there is The Guru because God Himself cares to work through some human form we call guru".
Swamiji's sayings are wonderful and full of insight and practical wisdom.Truly a Great soul.
Please visit:
http://www.newlives.freeola.net/interviews/6_swami_jnanananda_giri.php
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Three words-'master', 'teacher', and 'father'-prick me like thorns. I am the son of God, His
eternal child. How can I be a 'father'? God alone is the Master and I am His instrument. He
is the Operator and I am the machine.
"If somebody addresses me as guru, I say to him: 'Go away, you fool! How can I be a
teacher?' There is no teacher except Satchidananda. There is no refuge except Him. He
alone is the Ferryman to take one across the ocean of the world."
Namaskar.
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: Verse 21:
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai: Verse 1473:
Sakalamodu kevalame saarnthu
theLivaya
Sukalavamum illaatha sooniyama mayai
Mukadipan mohithu mootharijnar
thammaal
Pakadi seiyyap pattup paazhm
piRappukku aaLai
VikatangaL paaraatti veen kalam
pookaaa
ThakaLkanaa nammai aandaani adiyom
Mukadaaya Venkatan thaaL monamaa
muni
Akatam idhayath thamizhelor
Embaavai.
Prof. K. Swaminathan:
In love with Maya, this
enchantress,
Void illusion, void of Bliss,
An emptiness that holds all things,
Let us not seek more births, in
vain
Waste life after life, and only
earn
The scorn of Sages. Let us rather
meekly
Go straight to the Feet of Master
Ramana,
Crown of Sages, seek Him here
Straight within our hearts's core
And there dive deep, O maidens.
Muruganar says sakala and kevalam has no distilled sukam. It is all void. Maya is mukadi, the enchantress. It causes only births and deaths. It is all waste of time. Therefore we should only seek Venktan's feet and be silent. We should seek Him in our own hearts' core and dive deep into the waters of the Self.
****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Another thrilling incident is worth recalling. One afternoon in 1949, two highly esteemed senior devotees, Dr. V. Srinivasa Rao and Mr. T.P. Ramachandra Iyer, stepped into my house, Dharmalayam, formally prostrated before me and presented me two copies, fresh from the press, of Anma Bodham, Sri Bhagavan's Tamizh rendering of Sri Sankara's Sanskrit work. Speaking with unusual respect, they said, "Sri Bhagavan wanted us to go and give these copies to you. They contain some corrections in His own
hand."
How did I deserve this shower of grace? A few weeks earlier, my friend Minna Nuruddin (a good Tamizh and Sanskrit scholar) had gone to the Asramam and given to Sri Bhagavan a copy of Minna Naruddin's Tamizh translation in eight line verses of Atma Bodha. Sri Bhagavan had done many verses earlier, a translation in terse Venbas of the most of the 68 verses of the Sanskrit treatise. He now had the old note book dug up from the Asramam archives, revised and completed the translation and had it printed and brought out His last booklet. And now He sends me these two copies, one for me and the other for Minna!
****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
T.K. Chidambaranatha Mudaliar was fond of Tamizh poetry and during his visits to Dharmalayam was delighted to discover that his favorite Venbas from Guhai Namasivayar and Karaikkal Ammaiyar were often quoted by Sri Bhagavan and His devotees. Is not Siva present in every moment of Ananda?
One evening in January 1959, I was shivering in the freezing cold in the aerodrome in Minsk. A lady, standing beside me and trying to cheer me up, took out from her handbag a photo of Sri Bhagavan and asked me, "Do you know this Indian sage?" In fact there were devotees of Sri Bhagavan in Warsaw and Prague too.
These were casual 'appearances'. But Sri Bhagavan waqs a constant upadrashta, anumanta, bharta, bhokta (observer, encourager, sustainer, enjoyer) in my many meetings and dealings with fellow devotees like Muruganar, Viswanatha Swami, Sadhu Om, Osborne and A.R. Natarajan.
When I met Muruganar for the last time, he composed for me a KuRaL couplet, a visible passport to the whole world of Sri Bhagavan with its infinite inner and outer dimensions.
Muruganar's KuRaL:
Seerana sadgathiyach chernthaan
idhayathu
NarayaNane namakku.
a. If one takes idhayathu as adjective, qualifying Narayana, it gives the sense:
Narayana within the Heart has come before us as the noble path of righteousness.
b. If one takes idhayathu as an adverb modifying 'chernthan', it gives the sense:
As the noble path of righteousness Narayana has come to us and in the Heart abides.
Thus Narayana is both inner Being and our outer Becoming and Behavior. As guru, God and Self, Sri Bhagavan is none other than Narayana, the manifestation of the Timeless in our time for our benefit.
****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Tiru V. Kalyanasundara Mudaliar, called as Tiru.Vi.Ka in Tamizh, a good man and a good poet, writes with equal love and understanding of Siva and of Jesus Christ. Singing of Siva, he expounds of the many meanings of zero, the pujya and soonya, the plenum and the void, the bindu and the mandala, the point and the circle, the matrix and the mighty mother, of many pairs of opposites.
Siva as "paazh" - Void.
Thanthai poi thaai poith thamarum
poi, suRRam poi
Vendha puriyaahi vittene - mundhai
Azhazhi nanjuKaNda Abhat sakaayan
enum
Paazhavaan kaNNeRu pattu.
My father is gone. My mother is gone. My close relatives and other relatives are also gone. I have become a roasted body. It is all because of Siva, who in the ancient days, took the poison that sprouted from the ocean and held in His throat. People say He is Abhatsakayan, one who comes to rescue in times of danger. But He is verily the Paazh, Void. His dhrishti, evil eye has fallen on me!
(Sri Vishnu Sahasranamam in one of the names of Vishnu calls Him: Maha Gartha, the deep pit! God and Guru are deep pits. Once you jump in,
or He attracts you like a magnet, you are lost in that bottomless abyss!)
*****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Carl Jung hails Sri Ramana as a 'true son of the Indian earth' and adds that His life and teachings carry a warning message not only to Indians, but to all humanity in the modern age when it 'threatens to lose itself in the chaos of its unconsciousness and lack of self control.'
All competent observers are agreed that in Sri Ramana, we have the latest example of a Jnani, the sweetest and most satisfying fruit of Indian culture. As Duncan Greenlees asy, "I have taken all the descriptions of the Jivanmukta I could find in any scripture - Hindu, Buddhist, Confucian, Christian, Moslem or Jain. I have watched Sri Bhagavan under all kinds of circumstances and checked up what I have seen with those descriptions. He alone, of all the men I have seen seems to dwell always in Sahaja Samadhi (the normal, natural state of choiceless awareness).
Wei Wu Wei (Terence Gray), a prolific and precise writer on Advaita and Buddhism, found in the Maharshi a fusion of both these traditions and admired in particular His soulabya, His easy accessibility and readiness to reveal the highest truth to all who turned to Him. "Who else is there to whom anyone can reasonably point, of our own days, who lived for half a century, available to all at all times, in a state as perfect identification with the Godhead as would seem possible to an apparent identification individual manifestation? Hundreds of us knew Him personally as such,
and of whom else can that be said? What a marvelous thing it is to have had such a contemporary and to be able to compare His words and His living of life with the words and description left us by scriptures, of past Sages? In Sri Bhagavan alone can we see test those words and those scriptures, and see for ourselves that they are not a dream or a fantasy."
In the words of Muruganar:
"Seeing all beings in Himself,
And Himself in all,
Humbler than the humblest,
Through meekness the Supreme
Conceals and yet reveals
His true supremacy."
The Sage claimed nothing special or supernatural for Himself. His bliss was only constant awareness of the Being which is at the Heart of every person. He simply embodied the Truth that to be fully and naturally human is to be truly divine.
****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Our gods are manifestations and living, growing symbols of one Reality. These paths of karma, yoga, bhakti and jnana cross and recross one another. But like the lovely colors of the rainbow, they are distant enough, even though they emerge from and merge again in the one white light of sun, - the Pure Awareness, whose other name is Siva. Life is larger than logic and keeps growing ever larger and more complex. Since myths and muktas are larger than our humdrum life, we gain much when we leave logic behind and turn to these more reliable sources of light and strength.
Despite the Maharshi's profound reverence for and frequent references to the gods, His predominant concern with impersonal Jnana brings Him close to the Buddha. In insisting right meditation as the basis of right action and in maintaining strict silence on irrelevant, speculative issues like the nature of Gods and our past and future lives, Sri Bhagavan is concerned with orthopraxis, not orthodoxy. In His technique of self inquiry, the exploration of Consciousness, which gives energy and meaning to the whole human life, and breaks down the barriers between sacred and secular, He resembles the scientist. It is in this fusion of Jnana with karma, of awareness with daily action, that the Maharshi's teaching meets more than half way the need of modern man for a philosophy and a way of life which could harmonize in practice the two highest human values, liberation and dharma, responsibility. When Being branches out into relationships and flows forward as function, one discovers that all worthwhile work is service and all service is sheer joy.
****
Subramanian and friends, "The fusion of Jnana with karma, of awareness with daily action, that the Maharshi's teaching meets more than half way the need of modern man for a philosophy and a way of life."
This is just imagination. There is no half way, no needs of modern man and no philosophy!
Polemics play no part in the inspiration that is Ramana.
What he speaks of eludes us. 'Iru' he said to a few rare, ripe devotees. Can you just 'be'?
Don't talk of philosophy it has nothing to do with it.
salutations to all:
hey jude/Others:
["...There is no half way, no needs of modern man and no philosophy! Polemics play no part in the inspiration that is Ramana. What he speaks of eludes us. 'Iru' he said to a few rare, ripe devotees. Can you just 'be'? Don't talk of philosophy it has nothing to do with it..."]
it's hard to fathom a reason for your outburst! :-) among those who had the blessing of speaking & listening to bhagavAn, different people would have tried expressing, in their own way, the impact bhagavAn had on their lives, isn't it? prof. svAminAthan was one such, and if he'd attempted to voice his impressions in the manner what he thought fit, what's the problem? hope you understand that the usage of the term 'philosophy' in the orient is not the same as that employed in the occident! there may be nothing polemical about it, for it's quite common to say 'thAkur's philosophy' or 'bhagavAn's philosophy' and which isn't to be confused with the polemical variety you are referring to! (of course, for those who want polemics, there are enough logically sophisticated points of view, often brilliantly expounded, between rival schools, most of which is beyond the ken of those ignorant of samskrt!) :-)
you say 'only a few rare ripe...' - what makes you think prof. svAminAthan may not be in that category? you & i haven't even seen bhagavAn, so what concoction of ripeness are you alluding to? i'm sorry to say that all this glorified (neo-advaitic?) talk of "just 'be'" is just highbrow verbiage! 'summa iru' in tamizh, something every tamizh-speaker understands quite naturally, is a very commonly used phrase by native speakers that simply means 'be quiet' and is typically devoid of all the more-heat-than-light paraphernalia tagging this "just be" thing! :-)
THE WORLD IS TOO MUCH WITH US.
If I am short and plump,
The world will say: Why are you short and plump? Which girl will
marry you?
If I am lean and tall,
The world will say: Why are you so
tall and lean like a pencil? You
will only be fit to be a
policeman!
If I am myopic with above 6/6,
glasses,
The world will say: You have become
myopic; don't read book after
book. You will become blind soon.
If I am of normal vision,
The world will say: Be careful;
only normal vision people will get
cataract soon!
If I am fair complexioned,
The world will say: Why are you so
fair complexioned, no girl of
such complexion, you can get for
marrying!
If I am dark,
The world will say: Why are you so
dark, use **** soap; no girl will
marry you!
If I am wearing blue, the world
will say wear green,
If I am wearing red, the world
will say wear yellow!
The world is too much with us.
What I am to do with this world?
(An old Tamizh new- wave poem written by me in 1980s.)
*****
Dear S and friends, Outburst or measured response, matters little. Most comments are buried in the avalanche of 'cut and paste' which has somewhat dulled this excellent blog site...if you get my drift.
Furthermore calling me neo advaitic is just an attempt to pigeon-hole me. I might say about you that you're caught in the double bind of religion and ritual. Of course that's not necessarily true as I have no idea who you are and what makes you tick.
I agree that many devotees have/had different encounters and recollections of Ramana. All of them interesting, some riveting.
Still, punditry and long, well crafted essays bring us no closer to the mystery of who the Maharshi was.
Self enquiry is deeply intense and one has to muster all mental energy to stay with it.
It's not wrong to skirt the many ideas, the philosophy and simplify it.
So 'iru' is a good place to be.
hey jude/s/friends,
I have posted this excerpt from Prof.Swaminathan's Reminiscences of Sri Bhagavan acouple of times:
"Once during a visit to the Ashram in the 1940s
I was sitting outside the Old Hall with many
devotees, facing Sri Bhagavan who was reclining
on a couch. A group of learned pundits were discussing
certain passages from the Upanishads with
great enthusiasm and profundity. All, including
Bhagavan, appeared to be attentively listening to
this interesting discussion when, all of a sudden,
Bhagavan rose from his couch, walked thirty meters
to the north, and stood before a villager who was
standing there looking lowly with palms joined.
Immediately the discussion stopped and all eyes
were turned to Bhagavan and the villager standing at
a distance. They appeared to be conversing, but at such
a distance no one could tell about what. Soon Bhagavan
returned to his couch and the discussion resumed.
I was curious about this villager and why Bhagavan
had gone out of his way to meet him. So, while
the discussion continued I slipped away and caught
up with him before he left the Ashram. I asked the
villager what he and Bhagavan had talked about. He
said that Bhagavan had asked him why he was
standing there so far away. “I told Bhagavan, ‘I am
only an ignorant, poor villager. How am I to approach
you who are God incarnate?’”
“What did the Maharshi say then?” I asked.
“He asked me my name, what village I was from,
what work I did and how many children I had, etc.”
“Did you ask Him anything?”
“I asked Him how I could be saved and how I
could earn His blessings.”
“What did He tell you?”
“He asked me if there was a temple in my
village. I told him there was. He wanted to know the
name of the deity of that temple. I told Him the
name. He then said that I should go on repeating the
name of that deity and I would receive all the
blessings needed.”
I came back to Bhagavan’s presence and sat
among the devotees listening to the learned discussion,
in which I had now lost all interest, realizing
that the simple humility and devotion of this peasant
had evoked a far greater response from our
Master than any amount of learning. I then decided
that, though a scholar by profession, I should always
remain a humble, ignorant peasant at heart,
and pray, like that villager, for Bhagavan’s grace
and blessings.
—Professor K. Swaminathan"
-----------------------------------
Contrary to the cliched idea that Sri Bhagavan advised everyone to 'just be'-Sri Bhagavan encouraged everyone 'to be' what he or she was,in the ordinary sense of the term.
The 'Just be' is profoundly simple for the complex mind and is beyond its reach.It will take a lot of purification and Sadhana to be in the state of mind of the 'Villager' in the above story.
Professor Swaminatahan having seen this incident is not exaggerating one bit.
continued....
hey jude/s/Friends,
What Professor Swaminathan has expressed is beautifully brought out by Emerson in his essay on self-reliance:
"There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better for worse as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried. Not for nothing one face, one character, one fact makes much impression on him, and another none. This sculpture in the memory is not without preéstablishcd harmony. The eye was placed where one ray should fall, that it might testify of that particular ray. We but half express ourselves, and are ashamed of that divine idea which each of us represents. It may be safely trusted as proportionate and of good issues, so it be faithfully imparted, but God will not have his work made manifest by cowards. A man is relieved and gay when he has put his heart into his work and done his best; but what he has said or done otherwise shall give hint no peace. It is a deliverance which does not deliver. In the attempt his genius deserts him; no muse befriends; no invention, no hope."
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: Verse 22:
Verse 1474 of Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai:
Yaan param enRe cherukkathu ennuLLe
Venkatavan
Thaan kadavuLahath thalaipattu
oLirvathanaal
Oon kettu uyir kettu uNaRvu kettu\
en uLLamum poi
Naan kettu adhuvaai naduninRa mei
jnana
Vaan kadavuLaha vazhanguthalai yaar
aRivaaar?
Yanoduthaan ennum iruvorummanRikke
Naan ennum cholporuLai naadi
idhayath thadathu
Naan keda nankadi nayavelor
Embaavai.
Prof. K. Swaminathan:
That I may not proudly think,
"I am God Supreme", He Venaktava
Appears within me and shines as\
God.
Hence this 'I' as body, breath,
feeling and mind,
Disappears. Awareness, that alone
Abides and shines within me,
God in His heaven; who sees this?
There is no ego, there is no self.
Look within for the meaning of 'I'.
Lose the 'I', maidens, and rejoice.
Muruganar asks, 'What is the use of my thinking proudly, I am God Supreme!'? He, Sri Bhagavan only appears within me and shines as God. So, what thinks as "I am God Supreme" is only my 'I'; and when this 'I' disappears, as the body,
breath, feeling and mind, Awareness alone remains. This is the true purport of 'I' - the Real "I" and not the little 'I' which must be lost in the Heart.
"Oon kettu uyir kettu unaRvukettu
en uLLamum poi, naan kettu adhuvai nadu ninRa meiyjnana.."
The above lines of Muruganar are simply brilliant and echo's Saint Manikkavachagar's Tiru TheLLeNam, Verse 18, in Tiruvachakam.
Vaan kettu maarutham maainthu azhal
neer maN kedinum
Thaan kettalinRich chalippaRiyaath
thanmaiyanukku
Oon kettu uyir kettu unarvu kettu
en uLLamum poi
Naan ketta vaa paadith theLLeNam
kottaamo!
Even when the akasa, air, fire, water disintegrate, He is not undisturbed; He is without any movement. Let my body disintegrate, mind, feelings disintegrate, let my ego disintegrate, let us sing this glory and play TheLLenNm!
and earth
****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Jnana and Karma, inner awareness and outer action, become alternate movements of the one self. We breathe in and breathe out the universal air. We are aware in and with the universal mind. Unheard, unseen, the egoless man sweetens his circle like sugar in milk, and does not hurt it like grit in the eye.
The Maharshi's teachings, succinctly formulated in Upadesasara, recognizes the high ancillary value of karma, bhakti and yoga, but firmly insists on Jnana as the common origin, real import and ultimate end of all spiritual paths. Self inquiry, the scientific method of Vijnana, and self surrender, the emotional approach of Upasana, run together preserving the integrity of the individual and revealing the unity of all selves. The self as awareness and being cannot be known, it can only be enjoyed as bliss or exercised as behavior. As self-reverence, self knowledge, self control lead life to sovereign
power, inner shanti (peace) takes the form of shakti, the power of love.
Sri Sankara argued with scholars and refuted their doctrines to establish a thesis. Sri Bhagavan addresses Himself to common people and in the process meets with precision, the intellectual and moral needs of modern man. He shows us how to utilize the light and warmth of the Self, the Sun in every human heart.
*****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Sri Bhagavan's apt and telling expositions of Advaita Vedanta brought its truth home to the simplest folk.
"The world, as filled with Brahman, is real, like the body filled with life. But the world, cut off from Brahman and regarded as self dependent, is unreal like a corpse."
The search for meaning and purpose of life, is search for Reality.
To a question, on the relation between karma yoga and nishkamya karma, He gave an answer in the manner of a Zen Master. Without uttering a word, He walked up the Hill, picked up a stick and fashioned it into a driving stick for the shepherd boy who had missed his stick. Then He said, 'The making of the driving stick is karma yoga. The gift of it to the boy is nishkamya." The Sage did not make it and take it for Himself. Similarly, the making and eating of appalams served as an allegory and a sacrament.
Apart from His spoken, acted and written teachings, the simple human friendliness of Sri Bhagavan showed the utter soulabya, easy
accessibility, of the Ultimate Truth when it graciously chooses to embody Itself in human form.
(Sri Manikkavachagar laments in Tiru Sadhagam, 5.10.1 of Tiruvachakam:
eeRilatha nee eLiyaiyahi vandhu
oLisei maanudamaha nokkiyum,
keeRilatha nenjudiya naayinen
kadaiyan aayinen patta keezhmaiye.
O, You, the endless, came as a humble human and glanced at me. This lowly dog, with unopen heart still does not comprehend You! )
Sri Bhagavan was not merely a yogi or a teacher or a saint. He was a Seer, a being comprehending and transcending all these lower categories, and He succeeded in being a friend of everyone - sinner, saint, prince or peasant, old or young, learned or ignorant, man or woman, cow, dog, deer, crow, monkey or peacock.
(Ravi mentioned one incident in his post, about a peasant)
Many years ago J.C. Molony, I.C.S. noted how his hound preferred the hermit's company to his own. Hundreds of quite ordinary (human) visitors to the Asramam were treated like intimate friends by the Maharshi who took the most sympathetic interest in all their personal affairs: the train they came by, the food they ate, the marriages and deaths, the appointments and promotions that occurred in their families. No one felt that he was unimportant or unwanted.
*****
As I see it, why not 'be'.... if you can and as long as you can. To be in the now or the present moment is universally available to everyone. It can be experienced in in a palace or a hut, by a glib intellectual or a simple person. It is the common heritage of all. Because of its simplicity, it is often overlooked by the erudite.
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Women and Harijans (outcastes) were no less welcome than learned brahmins to this charmed circle. To all He taught self surrender without loss of freedom.
If the good teacher is a friend who joins you where you are and leads you up from that point to the mountain top of Truth, then the Maharshi is the greatest teacher the world has seen because He refused to stretch us on a Procrustean bed of creed or conduct. He did not merely concede as a matter of formal politeness, but convinced every one of His devotees and disciples that there are as many distinct ways of reaching the goal ass there are unique human individuals. m
His more than mother like tenderness (Devaraja Mudaliar used to call Him Ammaiyappa) made no harsh choice between one friend and another among the thousands of His friends. And His steady, calm, unfailing cheerfulness and rock like certainty sprang from His conviction that the world process must end in the final release of all beings.
(Ashtakam verse 8: The raindrops showered down by the clouds, risen from the sea cannot rest until they reach, despite all hindrance, once again their ocean home. The embodied soul from You proceeding may through various ways self chosen wander aimless for a while, but cannot rest till it rejoins You, the Source. A bird may hover here and there and cannot in mid-heaven stay. It must come back the way it went to find at last on earth alone its resting place. Even so the soul must turn to You, O Arunachala, and merge again in You alone, Ocean of Bliss.)
A river is sure to return to its source, the starting place, the ocean. Thus all reach the goal. ...
Happiness is your nature. It is not wrong to desire it. What is wrong, is seeking it outside when it is inside.
In His conversation with children, birds, and animals, one noticed with envy the outflow of a more active, spontaneous grace because, no doubt, these unspoilt creatures were more at home in His world of integral joy.
*****
Dear all,
For members knowing Tamizh, here is an important information:
Sri K.Sriram (Mugavai KaNNa Murugan Adimai) of Chennai has published a book containing all the Verses of
Muruganar's Tiru Sadagam (Verses 1026 to 1127 of Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai) with detailed meaning and commentary. The book costs Rs 40 and in India to get by post it will cost Rs 80 including courier charges. The book was released by Sri V.S. Ramanan, President, Sri Ramanasramam, on 30.12.2011 at Sri Ramanasramam, Tiruvannamalai. I received my copy from K. Sriram today.
The address is:
The President
Sri Ramana Bhakta Samajam,
G2, Shirdi Graha,
42/18 Sampangi Street,
West Mambalam, Chennai 600 033.
Phone: 044-2371 6495; 09444172613.
Subramanian. R
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
The ego life is not life but death. From this death of our ordinary life we awake into immortality by passing in imagination through the death of the body, as Sri Bhagavan did in His sixteenth year by His dramatization of His body's death. The danger of mere rationalism is avoided by devotion to the holy and beloved personal of the Guru.
"Self reliance as a commonly understood is ego reliance and it worsens bondage. Reliance on God alone is true self reliance because He is the Self."
All the free will that we need and ought to enjoy can be exercised in the process of experiment and enquiry, in the infinite variety of the application of the question Who am I?
Sri Ramana's simple message is:
The best way for one to serve the world is to win the egoless state. If you are anxious to help the world but think you cannot do so by attaining the egoless state, then surrender to God all the world's problems along with your own."
Again:
Help yourself, and you will help the world....Yes! Helping yourself, you help the world. You are in the world.... You are the world and the world is in you. You do not help the world at all by wishing or trying to do so but only by helping yourself, that is, by realizing your perfection."
It is open to the scientist to accept and apply the Sage's method of inquiry. It is open to the devotee to surrender himself and his problems to the saint. And the saint and the sage in Sri Ramana will gently draw the intellect of the one and the heart of the other towards the distant but inescapable goal of Satchitananda.
The one point where all religions
meet is the Realization -- not in some mystical sense, but in the most worldly, most literal and everyday sense, and the more worldly and everyday and practical, the better -- of the fact that God
is everything and everything is God.
Not only when the moon shines brightly and the nightingales divinely sing, not only in the hushed presence of a mighty Seer, but all the time and everywhere, we should know the feeling that 'unplumbed, salty, estranging sea' of samsara is a mere surface phenomenon and that we, mortal millions, are not so many separate floating islands but 'parts of a single continent', all rooted in the solid and life sustaining Ground of Being.
****
A writes:
He is Great,the very Greatest,none like him.He is ---,he always---.In him met,History,Geography,Mathematics,Social Sciences,and all Language subjects.No,he did not read them in any school.all these came to him on their own,etc,etc.
B writes:
He is the Greatest.None like him.AA was only a Jnani,BB was only a Bhakta,CC was only a Karma Yogi,but he is all these and much more.In fact he is more than 'more' the very 'Morest',etc,etc...Sorry,ran out of ink.My reminiscence will continue after I buy some ink.
C writes:
Never have I seen anyone like him.He is the very Greatest....The Gita says"Blah,Blah,Blah".He was the very essence of "Blah".In him philosophy,psychology and psychiatry meet and lose their fine distinction.Never has there appeared a phenomenon like him.Yet all can attain to this simple thing that he pointed out was always withing their grasp!Yet no one is his equal.He is the champion of champions,the Greatest star of stars,etc,etc....
...
...
...
...
X writes:
When the Leaves rustled
Just who heard that noise
find out the listener
there will not be the talker
talking will end up in listening,
etc,etc,etc
Y writes:
On listening alone a thousand dictionary tome like volumes can be written.He never read any of these.He is the Greatest listener of all listeners,even the listener of the Deaf.
Z writes:
In him the poorest of the poor found a friend as did the Richest of the Rich.No one like him.He is like no one else including himself,etc,etc,
...
...
There are in fact a thousand volumes of precious reminiscences that will make us forget what he was!I will be posting these and I am sure that all of you will be more than dying to read these posts.
Ardra Darsan in Chidamabaram:
Today is the day of Ardra Darsan.
This comes in Dhanur month, on the day of Ardra star. This usually occurs a day before Sri Bhagavan's
Jayanti or even on the same day, in the early morning. When Sri Bhagavan was born in Tiruchuzhi on 30/31st December, 1880, the Ardra day was just over in that morning.
In Chidambaram, today, Nataraja, His consort Sivakamavalli and Manikkavachagar, come out of the inner sanctum, Kanaka Sabha or the Hall of Consciousness, to the 1000
pillared temple outside for many thousands to have darshan. At Tamizh Hindu homes, Ardra is celebrated by early morning puja to Nataraja with "kaLi" - a sweet preparation made with rice not completely powdered but granulated cooked with jaggery.
Nataraja is the finest form among the eight forms of Siva. all Saiva poets have sung about this form. In Chidamabram, Nataraja, Sivakamavalli and Manikkavachagar idols are made in gold. The terrace of this Hall of Consciousness is also built with golden bricks and nails, by a Chozha King.
In Sri Ramanasramam, Nataraja is there in Mother's Temple. On this day very early morning, before milk- puja to Sri Ramaneswara Mahalingam, puja is conducted for Nataraja and the prasadam distributed. During one Jayanti Day, the Ardra Darsan, fell on the same morning of Sri Bhagavan's Jayanti. On that very early morning, at about 4.00 a.m., the puja performed, was witnessed by me and my wife.
Kunjitanghristvam, Verse 136 says:
When Murari (Mahavishnu) along with Lakshmi, for the purpose of vanquishing asuras, (demons), was doing intense meditation on the milky ocean, keeping Nataraja, Mother and Somaskanda (Muruga) in his Heart and also chanted Sahasranamam of Siva, Nataraja was experienced in his Heart, and His raised foot conferred him all benefits and riches. I salute that Kunjitapadam, the raised foot, for my welfare.
Siva is only Effulgence (irunthu oLir, says Sri Bhagavan). Then He is only form/formless in Lingam. Then He is of eight forms. He comes as a human Guru for those deserve such a Guru.
Saint Manikkavachagar says in TirupaLLi Ezhuchi, Verse 8:
Chenthazhal purai tiru meniyum
kaattith
TiruperundRrai uRai kovilum kaatti,
Andhanan avathum kaatti vandhu
aaNdai,
Aramudhe, PaLLi EhuntharuLaaye!
(You) showed your form as Effulgence! (You) then showed the
Temple of TiruperunduRai.* (You)
showed yourself as Brahmin, (Guru).
And ruled over me.
O Limitless Nectar, please wake up.
*TiruperunduRai - also means the Holy Great Shore, the shore of salavation, at the end of ocean of samsara.
*****
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: verse 23:
Sri Ramana Sannidhi MuRai, Verse 1475:
VanmamuRath tharuvanatharaiye maaRRum
KanmaneRike pong kadaiyen iRai
paNiyaam
DhanmamaRiyach chazhakkal than anma
tattuvamam
ManmaneRiyathu indha maanilathe
indiriyap
Panmukamaayodi pathaiyathu
enaiyaaNda
Thenmukanokkum jnana desikanaam
VenkataRke
Punmala naan enathu pulla
nirasaiyaam
Ninmala neeraadi nigazahelor
Embaavai.
Prof. K. Swaminathan:
This wretch pursued the path of
action
As obstinately as once of yore
Those rishis did in Daru-forest.
Ignorant of my true dharma, I
Might have let my senses wander
A hundred ways and missed the
secret
Of the Self. He Dakshinamurti,
Venkata, saved me and made me His
own,
Vile thoughts of 'I' and 'mine'
washed off.
In the waters of detachment, bathe,
Bathe and rejoice, O maidens.
Muruganar cites Daruka forest story, (his work about Daruka forest rishis, gave Upadesa Undiyar of Sri Bhagavan.). He says: I was also pursuing only path of action, karma marga. I was ignorant of true dharma. My senses might have wandered a hundred ways and missed the secret of Self Knowledge. Sri Bhagavan, Venkata, came as my Guru,
Sri Dakshinamurti, and washed of my vile thoughts of 'I' and 'mine'. He saved me and made me His own. Let us all bathe in the waters of vairagyam, detachment.
Mind would wander in a hundred ways. Only self inquiry or self surrender will vanquish the mind and ego. Saint Arunagiri Natha says
in Kandhar Andati:
My mind wanders with one thousand crore thoughts, within the time of one revolution of potter's wheel. Please set my mind right, Muruga!
Kandhar Andhati: verse 34:
........
........
........ Chenthilaai, oru kaal
thirgaiyil aayira kodi suRRodum
tiruthu uLam e.
******
Came across this wonderful piece from "I am That". Thought of sharing.
Chapter 38:
...
Q: From the Westerner's point of view there is something disturbing in your ways. To sit in a corner all by oneself and keep on repeating: 'I am God, God I am', appears to be plain madness. How to convince a Westerner that such practices lead to supreme sanity?
M: The man who claims to be God and the man who doubts it -- both are deluded. They talk in their dream.
Q: If all is dreaming, what is waking?
M: How to describe the waking state in dreamland language? Words do not describe, they are only symbols.
Q: Again the same excuse that words cannot convey reality.
M: If you want words, I shall give you some of the ancient words of power. Repeat any of them ceaselessly; they can work wonders.
Q: Are you serious? Would you tell a Westerner to repeat 'Om' or 'Ram' or 'Hare Krishna' ceaselessly, though he lacks completely the faith and conviction born of the right cultural and religious background. Without confidence and fervour, repeating mechanically the same sounds,will he ever achieve anything?
M: Why not? It is the urge, the hidden motive that matters, not the shape it takes. Whatever he does, if he does it for the sake of finding his own real self, will surely bring him to himself.
Q: No need of faith in the efficacy of the means?
M: No need of faith which is but expectation of results. Here the action only counts. Whatever you do for the sake of truth, will take you to truth. Only be earnest and honest. The shape it takes hardly matters.
Q: Then where is the need of giving expression to one's longing?
M: No need. Doing nothing is as good. Mere longing, undiluted by thought and action, pure, concentrated longing, will take you speedily to your goal. It is the true motive that matters, not the manner.
Q: Unbelievable! How can dull repetition in boredom verging on despair, be effective?
M: The very facts of repetition, of struggling on and on and of endurance and perseverance, in spite of boredom and despair and complete lack of conviction are really crucial. They are not important by themselves, but the sincerity behind them is all-important. There must be a push from within and pull from without.
Q: My questions are typical of the West. There people think in terms of cause and effect, means and goals. They do not see what causal connection can there be between a particular word and the Absolute Reality.
M: None whatsoever. But there is a connection between the word and its meaning, between the action and its motive. Spiritual practice is will asserted and re-asserted. Who has not the daring will not accept the real even when offered. Unwillingness born out of fear is the only obstacle.
...
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Our mythology is indeed perennial
and puts forth new leaves with every season. It moves people to action and inspires poets to voyages through strange seas of thought. Any of us can grasp intellectually the holistic joy of Siva-experience, if we study the poems of Muruganar and Tiru V. Kalyanasundara Mudaliar. For Siva, who appears in Kashmir as the ineffable Lokananda of Samadhi Sukham, reveals Himself in South India in many form and roles, His cosmic dance in Tillai (Chidambaram) and standing as the still immovable Hill of Arunachala, the immeasurable column of light whose summit and bottom Brahma and Vishnu sought and could not find. For this ever-present and all transcendent God, the only available mathematical symbols are one and zero to the total exclusion of two and three. Siva who is being inseparable from His power of Awareness, is the only sole Reality, the all-inclusive wholeness, the plenitude of Bliss. For us mortals, incapable of understanding infinity, the means of apprehending it is to turn it upside down and experience it as the void or zero.
It would be a grievous mistake to treat Sri Bhagavan's Upadesa Undiyar as that of Mahesh Yogi, as a system of meditation unrelated to conduct. In these few pregnant lines, Sri Bhagavan teaches the common man the simple practical, comprehensive method of dispelling the ego-cloud that surrounds us by using action to heighten awareness and using awareness to purify action (Upadesa Undiyar, verses, 3,5, 16-30). If awareness is Bliss, all action is to be judged by the BEAUTY it expresses or evokes in our human relations. Bad faith is to be rejected not because it is immoral but because it is ugly. Who am I? I am no mere rarefied spiritual entity called the atman. I am my body, my thoughts, words, actions, my circumstances, my relations and responsibilities. Beyond my morality, beyond psychology, I am the joy of freedom, my inherent moksha, and also my given predicament and accepted dharma (seed, fruit or tree). So, far from there being a conflict between moksha and dharma, moksha the joy of freedom is the seed and the fruit, the cause and the consequence of dharma, the tree
of responsibility and relatedness. If moksha is the vertical column of the cross and dharma its horizontal arms, their meeting point in the red ripe human heart is the fountain of joy, the wholeness and integrity of happy living.
****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
Why forget the Sun that raised the cloud from the ocean and thus serves us, even as it shines, for ever?
This technique of remembering the Sun and thanking him for the cloud, is made available to all persons at all times and in all circumstances by Sri Bhagavan's magic method of atma vichara or self inquiry. The secret of its success can be discovered in practice and can also be explained as the normal result of centroversion, where the ego unconscious of itself is neither introverted or inward turned nor extroverted or outward turned. This non differentiation between oneself and the world which trees, animals, birds enjoy and we have lost, has been beautifully explained by Douglas Harding in the Jan. 1982 Mountain Path, describing a walk in the forest and offering excellent advice to the Intelligent Person on how to walk through the forest of the world.
A healthy body, a healthy mind and healthy society are all alike governed by this centroversion, this self-forgetfulness, which is taught in Chapter X of Sri Ramana Gita.
The body's wholeness, its organic unity and unselfconscious functioning, provide the perfect model for the structure and functioning of a holistic social order. The healthy mind in a healthy body functions immediately and without reflection in the totality of a self regulating and self balancing system.
Individual and social growth, excellence and equality complement and reinforce each other. Moksha and dharma meet at the still center where there is no inside or outside. We used to think that the saint alone was at this center and the poet and the artist moved slowly in the inmost circle. We now learn and believe that this centroversion is possible for all of us. Like trees, animals, birds and little children and perfect sages, we too are in moksha. It is release from the ego, not release for the ego, which is necessary and possible. And this release becomes easy when we see that the ego is a mere illusion, a cloud hiding the very sun which raised it from the ocean to restore it to the ocean.
To the rich man who was anxious to enter the Kingdom of God, Jesus said simply:
Sell all you have, give it to the poor, take the cross and follow me. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.
*****
Hi All,
There is whole new set of footages of Bhagavan uploaded on youtube by user kratosmara. New and of course, beautiful. (Thanks to Badri for letting us know!)
Here is the link to Kartosmara's channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/kratosmara?feature=BF
A writes:
Politicians, the ones voted for and the voters who vote and the votes are part and parcel of the same.He is at once all this and beyond this.He is the center ,the mean,the median,mode of things.He is the child and old man.He is the alpha and omega of things.He is the delta and teta.Yet there is this valuable teaching of his which he alone
is.When i sat next to him in the dining hall,the idli was also the self.No need for the side dish at all.The plate was also the self.The eater was the self as much as the thing eaten.
There was no corner or center,everything was one self.
This is so simple that no one needs to practise the teaching.only one has to recollect.Truth is so simple that in its simplicity lies the realization and in its realization lies the simplicity and in setting aside both lies freedom.Freedom cannot be experienced but in experiencing there is Freedom.It does not admit past,present or Future-for it is beyond space and it does not admit here,there or everywhere for it is beyond time.
It lies in the far and unreachable and is beyond the Beyond and yet nearer than the now and Here.It is not anywhere and no one can seek it.
Yet everyone is only that.In this is bondage.In this bondage there is liberation.
B writes
Excerpts:Somebody thinks that his path is right and if everybody thinks so,that will lead to social evils.To balance somebody with nobody means everybody has to fall in line and in this harmony lies beauty that is the self of all things glorious and sublime.
To harmonize History with Geography,to balance Science with Arts ,to balance Life with death is the secret of success.The Self is somewhere in between if not outside the thin line that does not exist.
X says that the whole secret lies in treating the part as a whole and the whole as a part.For Truth cannot be split into part or whole but is something that cannot be described by words or cartoons.Sleep comes closest to expressing it and even sleep is only known when one is awake and dreaming and not when one is awake in dreaming.Sleep itself is a dream that the waking state is.Truth is beyond waking,Dream and sleep state and only when one crosses the boundary of these states in that fine line when one does not know where one is that one discovers oneself.
Not doing this is the source of all corruption,and in tacking corruption lies Freedom from Corruption.Freedom from Corruption is Self Realization.
A writes
Excerpts:In the perception of the Ugly lies the ugliness and what is this if not beauty;for beauty lies not in the eyes of the beholder but in his very soul when he perceives the imperceptible.It is only when the ugly is perceived in the Beautiful and the Beauty in ugliness that one starts seeing at all.Truth itself is beyond Beauty and Ugliness and itself does not exist in the absence of a perceiver.For what is Truth but that which is not imagined and what is Imagination but that which is not true.In the harmony of imagination and Truth lies the secret of all Health and Happiness.
From hoary times man has only aspired for happiness little realizing that he is happiness itself.
This is why the ancient teacher of Galilee said-'Let the dead bury the Dead.Follow thou me'.
It is only in following the true path that the path becomes known and in becoming known it bridges the gap to the unknown.
In the pursuit of philosophy lies all goodness for it leads to all confusion and when confusion becomes worse confounded,there is a possibility to stumble upon Truth.
B writes
Excerpts:What is known cannot be the unknown and what is unknown cannot be the known for both cannot be put side by side.The knower is clearly differentiated from either and himself is known yet unknown.To exchange this conundrum is the magic of Self enquiry,so that one starts understanding the known and sets aside his clear perception of the unknown.Only animals can do it effortlessly but in knowing it they still live like animals.It is given to man and man alone to know that he is a man and that he can do better.Knowing this alone will not do for the whole thing is in the tasting of the pudding-as Ramana said-'I came to feed on Thee;yet I became food for thee'.To become food is Realization and this is the secret of Self Realization.
Rains are a great help to harvest food and philosophy is a great aid in bringing rains;for they so torment the pure and simple who in praying for rain from the skies truly bring it about.
True philosophy is nothing but Geography and History fused into Science metamorphosed into poetry.This is why Jesus said-'Blessed are the pure in Heart for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven'.
It is the philosopher who added that the kingdom of earth is also theirs and added this philanthrophic dimension to the sophistry.
It is only when the mind is made subtle that it becomes subtler and subtler and evaporate into the Beyond of the Self like camphor burning itself and leaving no residue.The smell of Self Realization alone is left behind.
Prof. K. Swamianthan's writings:
Excerpts:
Muruganar holds that Saivism or Sivahood should be final stage of our human life, even as Saishvaya, infancy, is its initial stage. The presence of each human heart of the sun of pure awareness and its power to illumine and enrich our human life on earth, is no mere mythological fancy. In any case, the myth has helped to spread in widest commonality, the joy of Sivahood. Gandhiji was fond of two passages in Tamizh, the KuRaL, insisting on putting into practice what one has learnt, KaRka kasadaRa and the phrase 'Sivamakki enai aaNda' (Ruling me by divining me) in Tiruvachakam. The unique and the most precious contribution of the Tamizh genius to the development of a universal faith founded firmly on spiritual experience which is at once the source and end of all religious traditions, is the concept of VaalaRivu, the heavenly light of unity, that lurks unnoticed in every human heart. Siva, who embodies the transcendental awareness, is the destroyer of dualistic knowledge. When VaalaRivu is attained as sheer bliss, with no 'in here' or 'out there', one has become Siva, heavenly awareness, featureless, and frontierless.
The copious outpourings of Muruganar only express the irrepressible joy of the poet as he dives and swims and bathes in the ocean of bliss which is Sivanandam.
A parrot endlessly repeating
Again, again the same refrain,
I sing because joy overflows
As flow it must in music sweet.
Tamizh poets and scholars like Swamy Natanananda and Ki.Vaa. Jagannanathan extol the poet saint Muruganar ass the Maharshi's alter ego. The embodiment of beauty in delighted dialogue with the embodiment of Truth. The rainbow which makes the white light more charming. A flame kindled by the flame of Ramana's Jnana. The main branch of the Ramana-Ganga. The simplest of the simple, the purest of the pure; a heroic artist unconquerable in his courage.
Sri Sadhu Om claims justly that Muruganar is the main begetter of the Sri Ramana Prasthanatraya, the Upadesa Undiyar, ULLadu NaRpadu and Guru Vachaka Kovai.
The themes and modes, the style and imagery, adopted in Sannidhi MuRai seem on the surface to be borrowed from the great medieval singers of Saivism and Vaishnavism. But there is nothing merely repetitive or imitative in Muruganar whoses words apply with perfect aptness to his hero, an actual person historical and contemporary, because this presence too radiated love and knowledge and a shared beatitude.
****
Prof. K. Swaminathan's writings:
Excerpts:
It was no as if Sri Bhagavan conferred moksha on a cow, dog or peacock. He knew, but they did not know and had to be told, that they already enjoyed the bliss of mutual love. The Timeless comes into time, as Kama, the disciplined love, that Sri Krishna claims to be in living beings.
Sri Bhagavan's straight and simple method for each one of us discovering, exercising and enjoying here and now this vital link between living beings, which is also the link between the timeless moksha and timely dharma, is the quest, 'Who am I?'. This is nothing new, at any rate, for us in India, and is indeed as old as Aruna Hill, the sun and the ocean. We in India have always been known, however vaguely, the naturalness and ultimate Reality of the supersensual and that the essence of our Being is Chit and Ananda, Awareness and Bliss, where there is no room for the ego or a separate self. Sri Bhagavan's special mission is to convince all and sundry that by self inquiry and self surrender, any one of us can and should live securely, comfortably and happily in both worlds, the Timeless and time. As Muruganar says the dichotomy of immai and maRumai (this world and the other world) is wholly false and merely conceptual. The experience of this essential oneness, the presence of the many in the One, of the seven colors in the one bright radiance, is the true Awareness-Bliss of Siva.
What Sri Bhagavan has silently destroyed is the old illusion that brought time into the Timelessness, the didactic notion that dharma was the means or path and that moksha was the end or goal. Sivamaadal (becoming Siva) is not an achievement, but the discovery of our true Being as Awareness and Bliss.
(Saint Manikkavachagar starts his last decad, in Tiruvachakam, Accho Padigam, (Decad of Oh, Oh!):
Chittanmalam aRuvithu sivamaakki
enai aaNda
Athan enakku aruLiyaru aar peRuvaar
achove!
(He removed the impurities of my mind, and made me Sivam. O who will get that grace, that bliss as my Father who ruled over me, had conferred on me? Oh, Oh!)
****
A writes
Excerpts:It is not as if the hereafter comes after the here;it is simply that it comes before that it is called the here after,implying that here comes after.It is only the untrained mind that perceives the difference between the here and the hereafter as the self is neither in the here or the hereafter.The self is all that was,is and will be.The here and hereafter are in the self.If here itself does not exist where is the question of there and thereafter.All these are pure figments of imagination.What is imagination but the reality of an appearance that is intrinsically false shadow of a Real self whose shadow that it seems to project backwards and upwards into time and space.This is the symbolism of siva as Nataraja-the danceless captured in dance as the rhythm of the rhythmless and bridging both by transcending the limitations of space,Time and causation.What is cause but the effect of the cause of its effect?to know what is causeless and effectless is to abide as the ever present inexplicable indescribable omnipresent omniscient substratum of the superstructure of illusion of the manifest universe.
Ultimately it is that simple.In the end it is the transcending of all illusions obtuse and acute.
B writes
Excerpts:
What is silence but the background of all noise that arises and moves about and subsides into nowhere.In truth Silence speaks louder than noise although it is noise that gets perceived by the senses and the mind.Silence is called golden because that is the colour of siva and silence is associated with Dakshinamoorthy who is the silent form of siva just as Nataraja is siva the dancer.The real mystery is that in silence there is the dance of consciousness and in dance there is the silence of the Prakriti-and the Self is atonce the Silence and the dance.
The four disciples represent East,West,North and south and among them cover the top and bottom as well.The whole universe is a Dance of Siva and in the background is the Self rooted in Silence.
He embodies the silence and dance and not even Dakshinamoorthy or nataraja can equal him in this aspect.It is in the worship of this silence and Dance that Humanity can find its future and redemption.
A writes
Excerpts:
The Great thing about the Greatest is that it is the smallest of the small and all that is inbetween and outside the domain of the subterranean superconscious transcendent self immanent in all things high and low.The immanent reality is forever transcendent and what we deem as transcendent is ever immanent and widespread and yet forever beyond the reach of thought.What is thought but action that is yet to manifest and what is action but thought manifest and underlying this interdependence is the consciousness of the self which in itself is beyond all consciousness and unconsciousness.When thought runs its full circle it turns upwards and dips into the Beyond that is here and now.What is Here and Now is the Beyond and what is Beyond is Here and Now.The Self is neither in the Here and Now nor in the Beyond rooted as it is in the Self.The Beyond is only a projection of the Here and Now and all spiritual practice is only a whiling away of time in an attempt to scale what is intrinsically the timeless spaceless nonentity.To be that is to be this and to be neither This or That is to be without any sense of identity which is the Self.
A writes
Excerpts:Who am I?Am I X or Y or am I myself?This is the fundamental question that brings one back to oneself and cures one from the illusion that one is somebody else.This is the Straight path joining the the two points of nonself and the Self.All other paths are curves and are longer and will take more time to travel.Why waste all that extra time and energy if all that one has to do is to come back to the intrinsic Truth of oneself inside the outer shell of the Body mind complex.X says so beautifully that it takes more time to traverse a longer distance as compared to traversing a short distance.The sheer logic of this approach is something that is mind boggling however much it depends on the mind to unravel the mystery.Fact is that Distance and time are related and Self is beyond both.In asking this fundamental question all other questions and their answers are neatly set aside including the questioner himself-What then emerges is something that defies all description and is echoed in muted silence.Am I something other than what I was ,is or will be?Can I be anyother than what I am however much I imagine myself as this or that.What I am is Who I am and I am the I Am of the I am .This is the Great Truth of the Bible leaving no confusion that one is anything other than what or who oneself is.This is the ultimate thing that everyone has to realize that one is oneself only and not anyother.The Bible clearly says-'I am that I am'.
B writes
Excerpts:
His special mission was that the Truth should not only reach the homo sapiens but also plants insects birds and animals.In his presence everyone was alike and animals were treated like humans and all are but the Self in various forms.His vision mission values transcended all barriers of time and Space and are echoed by the voice of the voiceless.The sheer Grandeur of the Silent Music surpasses all that is Effulgent and hoary.The Brilliance of its wisdom dazzled a thousand crore suns into oblivion.The Deafening silence drowned all the noise of the world and the seven Heavens with the Harmony of its Symphony.The Sheer beauty of its Radiance put to shadow the conglomeration of all the flowers and Blooms of spring and their verdant colour and shades.
Night itself lost her darkness and daylight their Shine in the August presence of the solitary self .Alone it was with the alone.
Anonymous @Jan 8
My first and only comment here...
This web site is maintained by an individual who said in 1981:
http://www.newlives.freeola.net/interviews/35_david_godman.php
How do you support yourself?
I also find that strange. I can only tell you what has happened — I can’t give any explanation. I last undertook paid employment in 1975, so when I came here a year later I had what I perceived to be enough money for six months and then I would have to go back. I have given away more money than I have spent, yet I now have just about as much money as when I first came here. The only explanation I can possibly give is that if you are seriously engaged in spiritual quest, whatever you need at any one time comes to you. At the beginning, as I was attached to this place, I worried about the future, the lack of money, the uncertainty. It all stopped. I used to go round the Hill every day before I started Ashram work. It was the only time in my life I felt any love, any devotion to any spiritual object outside of myself.
When you first explained what you wanted this Interview for, I was uneasy because the idea of talking about devotees and devotion disturbed me. You see, I have absolutely no devotion now to anything, not even Ramana or the Hill. I see my spiritual path in terms of myself and my experience of myself and nothing outside myself. I have no external deities, gurus, symbols at all. But there was this one period when I had great love for the Hill. I used to chant Ramana’s hymns in English as I went round it. Then one day it suddenly occurred to me that whatever power propelled me here is also looking after me, and it’s that power’s job to give me what I need. No more was I to worry about it. From that moment I never even thought about the lack of money. I rarely have any, but I never worry about it.
So maybe there are people whose understanding is as deep as yours?
You still think you should continue spoofing the earnest outpourings of a harmless individual?
And don't misunderstand the quote, just ponder over it.
Anonymous,
"You still think you should continue spoofing the earnest outpourings of a harmless individual?"
Why is it that you never posted anything like this when R.Subramanian is posting merrily totally unmindful of repeated pointers by so many other earnest readers that he check this tendency?Further he considers this to be prompted by Ramana!Atleast I am not claiming such a thing.
May be your post awakens the True Ramana in us and mercifully spare us from this relentless torment.
Anonymous,
"You see, I have absolutely no devotion now to anything, not even Ramana or the Hill. I see my spiritual path in terms of myself and my experience of myself and nothing outside myself. I have no external deities, gurus, symbols at all."
Friend,it does not at all mean that David has no devotion to Ramana or Arunachala.All the devotees here as well as those who know David and have read his books on sri Bhagavan and his devotees will understand what this means.
Namaskar.
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: Verse 24.
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai - Verse 1476:
PoivaLam pootha vidai pongu mulaikke
muRiyath
ThaivaLam pootha ner thaam ungandha
thailaarhaaL
AivaLam pootha soNachalathan annam
pei
KaivaLam pootha kavikaiyaan
kaNdaarkaN
MoivaLam pootha mukapolivaan mun\
ethirnthaar
MaivaLam poothamayan maaikum kaN
Venkatavan
MeivaLam pootha kazhal vetkaiyaai
meijnana
Theivaneeraadi thigazhelor
Embaavaai.
Prog. K. Swaminathan:
While slender waists and swelling
breasts
Delight, O maidens, as they embrace
The swelling winter flood, you
bathe
In true Awareness, water divine.
You are in love with the glorious
Feet
Of the Lord of beauteous Aruna Hill
Whose hands shower bountiful
blessings on all,
Whose brilliant face and eyes
dispel
The darkness of Maya, false
illusion.
Dive and bathe, O maidens.
Muruganar says that we should bathe in the divine waters of Awareness.
***
Sri Ramana Jayanti - 9.01.2012:
132nd Ramana Jayanti, 2012:
It was the Ardra darshan celebrated as the day when Siva showed his ananda-tandava (dance of bliss) to Patanjali and others at Chidambram in fulfillment of a promise made to Adisesha at Daruka forest. In the village of Tiruchuzhi, Bhoominatheswara along with his consort Sahayavalli, was about to enter his abode after going round the streets of the village blessing his devotees.
To the northeast of the temple was the house of Sundaram Iyer, whose wife Azhagammal was in labor to deliver her third child. Lakshmi Ammal, the mother of Sundaram Iyer and an old lady of poor sight, their neighbor were in the room. That was December 29, 1879, well past midnight, hence it was December 30. The moon was in the constellation of Punarvasu. Bhoominatha halted a little while at the entrance of the temple and there in the house a male child was born. Sundaram Iyer's mother was disappointed and gave expression to it. The lady of poor eye sight asked the reason for her disappointement to which she replied, "You know very well that my daughter Lakshmi is no more, her son Ramaswami is growing up here. The first child was a girl who has gone. The second is Nagaswami. Now again, it is a boy. If the child had been a girl, we could have married her off to my daughter's son. Where is the chance now? How will the family tie continue? This is all I am destined for!"
The old lady admonished her and consoled her. "Enough of this, be quiet. The boy is a darling. He is enveloped in great light. Don't you see, He is an avatar? How can you weep over this?
How did the lady of poor sight know?
According to the solar calendar, it was 16th day of Margazhi (Dhanur) of Pramadi year. According to lunar calendar it was Pramadi, Margaseersha, Krishna Pakhsha, (dark fortnight), second day, night 19 1/2 ghadis, Tula Lagna.
Thangum Sivalokam thannai vittu
thaya vaaha Tirucuzhi thannil
vanthu;
Angum irukka manam sakiyaamale
Arungiri thannai naadi vanthaan.
(Satyamangalam Venkatarama Iyer, Kummi Pattu)
He, who resides in His abode, Sivalokam, left that and came as a concession to Tiruchuzhi. He did not want to stay there either, and sought and came to Arunachala.
****
Uniqueness of Sri Bhagavan:
Sri Bhagavan was unique. He taught both through silence and speech. His silence was so powerful as to silence the mind of the seeker with right receptivity. When He used speech for instruction, the effect could be Socratic. Crowds poured into His wondrous presence just to have a look His Godlike face and be blessed by His benign glance. His Asramam was a real home devoid of rigid rules and crippling regulations usually enforced in soulless institutions. Visitors and devotees, sometimes numbering hundreds (and now thousands on special days), sat with Him during meals, and a motherly concern enveloped them as He looked around and ate with them. His followers never lacked His fatherly protection which was theirs for the wishing. Like a true friend, He shared their joys and sorrows. As a
Guru in the highest tradition, with unerring insight and infinite patience, He guided the spiritual aspirants towards immortality and peace.
While Sri Bhagavan undoubtedly is an uncompromising Advaitin, He did not condemn other paths. In face, one could see in Him a great Bhakta and a great Karma Yogi. Over and above everything, He was a great human being. His compassion knew no bounds. King of kings, though He was, Sri Bhagavan was the refuge of the lowest of the lowly. His accessibility was unparalleled. Truly, He was Purushottama. Sri Bhagavan is unique. His life is unique and His teaching is unique.
(N. Balarama Reddy)
****
The Uniqueness of Sri Bhagavan:
When Venkataraman arrived in Tiruvannamlai on September, 1, 1896, He was only just sixteen. When Sri Bhagavan left Madurai to Tiruvannamalai, He took with Him Rs 3.00 out of Rs 5.00 that had been given by His brother to remit his (brother's) college fee. Sri Bhagavan just took the amount that He thought was the train fare from Madurai to Tindivanam. He never worried about how He would reach Tiruvannamalai from Tindivanam. He had surrendered Himself totally to Arunachala and left everything to Him. Any one of us would have taken the entire amount thinking that if conditions were not favorable, we must have some money to return home! Sri Bhagavan did not have even a trace of doubt that Arunachala would not accept Him.
On arriving in Tiruvannamalai, Sri Bhagavan went straight to the temple and reported His arrival to Arunachaleswara. Later He went to Ayyankulam tank and threw away the sweets that had been given to Him by the sister of Muthukrishna Bhagavatar at Kilur. He did not know when, where, or whether He would get His next meal, but did not worry about it as He had surrendered Himself totally to Arunachala and felt that He would do what was necessary.
Again He tore off from His dhoti just the amount of cloth that was necessary for a koupina and threw away the rest. He was not interested in an extra koupina, nor did He think of using the remaining cloth as a towel. He took only the absolute minimum. The sixteen year old boy took a leap from here to eternity and shook off the dust of the world. This is Vairagya, this is renunciation, this is total surrender.
Sri Arunachala Navamani Maalai:
Verse 7:
That moment when as Annamalai You called me and made me Your own, You took the sole charge of my spirit and my body. What more do I want? Merit or defect, I knew none apart from You. My very life You are. Do with me what You will. Only, only give me ever increasing love for Your twin Feet!
****
The Unique Features of Sri Bhagavan:
The Maharshi embodied all that is best and finest in our Vedas and Upanishads. He came of the line of our ancient Rishis. He was totally free and gave this freedom to others. He never asked for anything. He didn't ask anyone to do anything for Him. He was silent much of the time and communicated a peace that passeth understanding. He was extraordinary in every way but lived an ordinary life. He did not advise people to give up this or that. He wanted them to give up the sense of 'doership'. He de-emphasized miracles, clairvoyance, etc., To Him Self Realization was the most important thing. Self Realization is not the acquisition of anything new but only the removal of all camouflage.
Realization came to the Maharshi unsought. He had no knowledge of the Vedas, the Upanishads, etc., when He got realization. He had read only the Periuapuranam, a Tamizh work about the lives of the sixty three Saivite saints. The treasure of Self Knowledge came to Him when He faced death squarely at the age of sixteen. He experienced Brahman without knowing the word or its meaning. We all know a great detail about it, but do not realize it.
Om the early years, people used to sleep around Him. When He had to go out at night, sometimes He had to pick His way carefully through the sleepers. When someone offered to Him a torch, the Maharshi said there was no need for it. At the insistence of devotees, He accepted it. He used it in such a way that nobody was disturbed. Whenever He had to go out at night, He would flash the torch on His stomach and by reflected light find His way out. He would not flash the torch on the ground as it might disturb those who were sleeping. Such was His concern for others.
But this concern was not limited to human beings. It was extended to birds, animals and plants. Occasionally when dogs chose to sleep in the Hall, some people used to murmur that dogs would mess up the place. The Maharshi would take the dogs out around midnight so that they could answer the calls of nature. Dogs, sparrows, peacocks, squirrels, monkeys and cows used to go to Him. He would talk to them and they would obey His instructions. He would never let anyone to kill a snake or a scorpion. "We have come to their place. We should give them protection." In His presence, even monkeys were quiet. A monkey tried to go near Him when He was in the meditation hall in the Asramam.
****
He is unique.He is so unique that there are no others like him.He is the Greatest of the Greatest,Highest of the Highest,deppest of the deepest ,broadest of the Broadest.He is taller tha any mountain and deeper than any ocean and vaster than any desert.He was always approachable and accessible.He did not have any doors for his heart had no doors and the hall of the Heart where he dwelt was larger than the universe.He was so unique that nothing else existed apart from him.No one like him at all .There never was anyone like him.Never anyone is like him.Never will be anyone like him.He alone is his equal.No,not even is he his equal for he is so unique.Yet he treated everyone his equal.Yet no one considered himself to be his equal.He is so very Great,greater than the Greatest.Greatness loses its meaning beside him.Yet did he cook and share it with the smallest of the small.Not all the books about him could capture an iota of his uniqueness.Even if the whole universe were a writing pad and all space used as ink,his greatness cannot be eulogised.So Great was he.
He is so great that there was nothing small in his vision that saw through everything.He is so Great.
Friends,
Wish to share the story of the 'Door to Door Naphthalene ball seller'.
Morning as I was getting ready to go to office,there was this gentle knock on the door.As I opened the door,there he was standing outside with his leather salesman bag,sporting a smile.He scanned the space behind me as if looking for my wife.Without much ado,he said-'We are closing our business after 36 Years.I came to tell you this.Thanks very much'.
This quiet man in his 60s used to sell naphthalene ball packets @ Rs5/- a packet.Every month for the last so many years since we moved in here in 1993,this man in is trousers and untucked shirt will make his monthly visits without fail.He will give change for Rs 100/- even if one buys just a single packet for Rs5/-.If one does not buy anything,he will accept the situation graciously and bow out-'Yes,I will come again next month.If you need it you may buy then.'
As the news of what he said was sinking in ,he knocked at the neighbouring apartment where my mother-in-law lives.Quietly he told her that he is closing the business-'I came to inform you so that you do not wait for me indefinitely'.My M-In-Law blessed him abundantly and before I could break the news to my wife,he was gone.
As I dwell on this man,I feel that in his own way he has carried himself not just in a professional manner but also as an excellent Human being.How else do we explain why he took the trouble of going door to door to inform people that he will not be continuing his monthly visits.Did he expect anything in Return?There are such people and they are no less of a Guru.I like to call him as my 'Door to door seller' guru.Likewise I have the 'Watchman' Guru and the 'Liftman' Guru.I will share when I find the time and inclination.
Namaskar.
Hi anonymous
I knew that this interview from 1981 had been published in a reprint of the book (not the original printing) but I find it hard to believe that I ever told anyone that there was a time when I had no devotion to Bhagavan. I suspect I have been misquoted here. My devotion to and reverent awareness of Bhagavan have been constant for decades and I would never publicly disown these sentiments. I don't know what I actually said, but I am certain that what is printed here is not a fair representation of what I felt and actually said.
Sri Bhagavan' reminiscences of His early years in the Hill:
Talks No. 357:
Sri Bhagavan was recounting some of the incidents of His stay in Tiruvannamalai:
1. He was one day given a small speck of some substance on a leaf, to be licked off. It was said to be a good help for digestion. He licked it. Later He had His meal. After sometime, the assembled persons appeared to be surrounded by light. The experience passed away after some time.
2. While He was living in Pavazhakunru: He intended to have a bath in one of the rills on the
hillside. Pazhaniswami was informed of it. The news spread, that Jada Padmanabhaswami, who was living on the Hill, had arranged with Pazhaniswami to take Sri Bhagavan to the hill near his cottage. Pazhaniswami, without informing Sri Bhagavan managed to take Him there. A great reception awaited Him. a sea was arranged for Him, milk and fruits were offered and Jada Padmanabhaswami waited on Him with great kindness.
3. Jada Padmanabhaswami, though represented in the book, Self Realization, as having sought to injure Sri Bhagavan, was really kind to Him and his pranks were misunderstood to be acts of malice. His only weakness was that he wanted to make capital out of Sri Bhagavan for raising funds, which, of course, the Maharshi did not like. There was nothing wrong with Jadaswami.
4. Madhavaswami, the attendant, asked if Sri Bhagavan remained without food for months, in the underground cellar in the temple. Maharshi replied: Um! Um! -- food was forthcoming - milk, fruits -- but whoever thought of food?
5. While staying in the mango-tree cave, Sri Bhagavan used to string garlands for the images in the temple, with lotuses, yellow flowers (sarakonnai) and green leaves.
6. After the completion of the Kalyanamantapam, Sri Bhagavan stayed there one night in disguise.
7. When He was sitting under a tree in the temple compound, He was covered with dirt, for He never used to bathe. In the cold nights of December, He used to fold up the legs, place His head between His legs and remain there without moving. Early in the morning, the layer of dirt on His body was soaked with dew and the mist and appeared white. After drying up in the sun it appeared as dark.
8. When living on the Hill, Sri Bhagavan used to help in the puja of Jadaswami, ringing the bell, washing the vessels, etc., all along remaining silent. He also used to read books e.g. Ashtanga Hridayam in Malayalam and point out the treatment contained in the book for the patients who sought the other sadhu's help. That sadhu did not know how to read these works.
****
Ravi and friends, I followed with interest the exchange between you and anonymous.
I always found you and your comments to be predominantly devotional which was part of the bhakti spell you wove around the many comments you posted on Ramana Maharshi and Ramakrishna.
David,
You said "'Place' is a translation of the word 'idam', which generally denotes a physical location. However, Bhagavan sometimes seemed to use the term more generically to mean 'state' as well as 'place'. Later in 'Who am I?', for example, he writes 'The place [idam] where even the slightest trace of the I-thought does not exist alone is Self [swarupam]'. I don't think that Bhagavan would ever say that swarupam has a physical location. It is one's own innate state of dimensionless being."
Just to let you know - "idam" in Sanskrit doesn't mean "place"... it means "this". This meaning also gives more accurate meaning to the sentence, I guess - "This (in which) even the slightest trace of the I-thought does not exist alone is Self [swarupam]"? Your thoughts?
Maneesha/Friends,
"Just to let you know - "idam" in Sanskrit doesn't mean "place"... it means "this".
The 'iDam' in tamizh means place or State.
What you are referring to is 'idham' in Sanskrit which means 'This' and this is different than the 'iDam'(the pronounciation of this word is like the 'D' in Adam).
Sri Bhagavan was only using the Tamizh 'iDam' and not the sanskrit 'idham'.
It may interest you that the sanskrit 'dhAm' refers to a place.It is possible that the Tamizh word is derived from this and an 'i' is added to form 'iDam'.Or it may be the other way round that the dhAm in Sanskrit originated from the 'iDam' of Tamizh.
Namaskar.
hey jude/Friends,
"I followed with interest the exchange between you and anonymous.
I always found you and your comments to be predominantly devotional"
Friend,Devotion is not emotional effervescence.It is not exclusive attachment that puts the object of Love on a High pedestal and differentiates it from all the rest.It is not admiration of the object of worship.It does not seek to carve an exclusive niche and elite status for the Object of worship.
Devotion does not turn the object of worship into a Fetish.
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Master:"Well, how do you find Purna? Does he go into ecstatic moods?"
M: "No, I haven't noticed in him any outer sign of such emotion. One day I told him those
words of yours."
MASTER: "What words?"
M: "You told us that if a man is a 'small receptacle' he cannot control spiritual emotion; but
if he is a 'large receptacle' he experiences intense emotion without showing it outwardly.
You said that a big lake does not become disturbed when an elephant enters it; but when the
elephant enters a pool, one sees tremendous confusion and the water splashes on the
banks."
Sri Aurobindo says so beautifully:"It is not sufficient to worship Krishna, Christ or Buddha without, if there is not the revealing and the formation of the Buddha, the Christ or Krishna in ourselves."
Namaskar.
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: Verse 25:
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai - Verse
1477:
NillathavaRRai nilaiyinavak koNdu
uvaKKum
PullaRivaaNmai pulampeitha
Venkatavan
Kallal enathuLamaak kathalaan
meitkEtta
Nallar agak karaNa
naangavaRithirunthu
Sollal adangaa sukodhayathaich
jothi iruL
Allavadeetha vidhaya aakayathai
vithaan
Pallaar paravu muzhumonap paravai
padinthu
Ella neeraadi ezhunthu Ethelor
embaavaai.
K. Swaminathan:
My arrogant folly which mistook
The ephemeral for eternal. He,
Venkata, destroyed. For Him my
heart
Became the banyan shade in which
The Self ti four good pupils taught
How to clear the 'I' within
And see in the Heart's firmament
The Sun of bliss ineffable
Beyond the play of light and
darkness.
Dive and bathe in bliss, O maidens!
Muruganar said in earlier verse about the waters of the Self, Awareness, for bathing. Here he says about the waters of the Self, Bliss for bathing. Sri Dakshinamurti is sitting under the banyan tree. Here, Murugnar says Sri Bhagavan is staying in Heart which is the banyan shade.
*****
Dr. K. Subrahmanyan:
Dr. K. Subrahmanyan (1928-1998) is the founder of Sri Ramana Kendramu,
Tilak Nagar, Hyderabad. He was the Professor of English in the Central Institute of English and Foreign Languages, Hyderabad. He had darshan of Sri Bhagavan for a number of years from 1944 or even earlier. The Hyderabad Ramana Kendram has compiled a book describing the uplifting experiences of 160 persons with Sri Bhagavan. This book has now been updated including another 40 devotees.
*
My father who worked as a teacher in Municipal High School, Tiruvannamalai met the Maharshi in 1927 and asked a question for which he was very sorry in later years of his life. He asked: "There are so many Sadhus wandering around, how am I to know who is a genuine one?"
The Maharshi most graciously said:
"He is a real sadhu in whose presence you get an indescribable peace without making any effort."
*
Hearing from my father and uncle that Sri Bhagavan used to read letters written to Him by devotees, I used to write to Him occasionally from the hostel of the high school at Tirukattupalli (near Thanjavur), where I studied from 1941 to 1945. Once I went to Sri Bhagavan with my uncle and was looking at Him. Sri Bhagavan asked my uncle about me. On being told that I was his nephew, He said, "So you are the person writing letters to me." This gave me a strange feeling of awe, coupled with great joy, and I said in a low voice, "Yes." Sri Bhagavan remarked: "Does your father send money to you so that you can write these letters?" and laughed. I wasn't quite sure whether Sri Bhagavan was being sarcastic or made the remark in a light vein. I sweated for a while, continuing to look at Sri Bhagavan.
*
*Once in 1946, when I was an 18 year old student, I was walking towards the old meditation hall with my head down, thinking of something. When I looked up, I saw Sri Bhagavan talking to a devotee near the well, adjacent to the Hall. I did not expect Sri Bhagavan to be there. When He looked at me sideways, I stood still, as I did not want to disturb Him. I felt a powerful light penetrate and engulf me. The Bliss that I experienced was unique. I was in that state for about 20 days.
*
(It is this Prof. K. Subrahmanyan who was with Sri Bhagavan on many occasions between 1944 and 1950, wrote about the UNIQUENESS OF SRI BHAGAVAN. The extract from that books was posted by me yesterday, as a Jayanti remembrance of Sri Bhagavan. It is not my figment of imagination or "writing something for writing sake, using special adjectives and adverbs" about Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan is not even the first person, He is a mighty impersonality. Where is the need for Him for our adjectives and adverbs? These are all from heart-felt experiences of His devotees.)
****
R.Subramanian,
"Sri Bhagavan is not even the first person, He is a mighty impersonality."
Please explain this.Is he a Freak?If he is not like one of us,we may have to set him aside as a 'One time chance occurence'.Is this Sri Bhagavan's view or that of a 'devotee'?
Namaskar.
R.Subramanaian/friends,
Here is a wonderful passage from Sri Aurobindo's Synthesis of Yoga-from the chapter-'The Four Aids'.
"And it shall also be a sign of the teacher of the integral Yoga that he does not arrogate to himself Guruhood in a humanly vain and self-exalting spirit. His work, if he has one, is a trust from above, he himself a channel, a vessel or a representative. He is a man helping his brothers, a child leading children, a Light kindling other lights, an awakened Soul awakening souls, at highest a Power or Presence of the Divine calling to him other powers of the Divine. "
If we contemplate the lives of The Great ones,this is how it is.
It is this universal in the particular-this is the inspiration.Not to make the Particular as a 'standalone' miracle differentiating it from all others.This is turning it into a fetish.
Namaskar.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
1. Sri Pandit one of the staunch devotees of Sri Aurobindo calls
Sri Bhagavan as Mighty Impersonality, in the sense He had no first person, I, the ego. Personality, the English word comes from 'persona' which means "mask" in some ancient language, Greek or Latin, I do not know. He has no mask of individual personality, a name etc., Kindly go through the book Mighty Impersonality, by Sri Pandit.
2. Please also go through Verse 31 of ULLadu NaRpadu, which in English means:
For him who is the Bliss of the Self arising from extinction of the ego, what there to do? He knows nothing other than the Self. How to conceive of his state?
****
Maneesha
I see this morning that Ravi has already addressed your query about idam.
As far as I am aware, there is no connection between iDam (with retroflex D), which reflects a Dravidian root and means 'place', and idam (with dental d), which is the nom. and acc. neuter form of the Sanskrit demonstrative adjective pronoun meaning 'this'.
Prof. K. Subrahmanyan:
Sometime in 1949, I sat at the entrance of the new hall, outside
the Mother's Shrine, looking at Sri Bhagavan. Then I thought to myself, "I have been coming to the Asramam so often, but have had no experience of real meditation. Sri Bhagavan has not granted me this experience." Thinking along these lines, I kept looking at Sri Bhagavan for a considerable time and then closed my eyes. I do not know how long I was in that state. When I opened my eyes, I found the meditation hall empty. Sri Bhagavan and other devotees must have gone past me as I was sitting at the entrance. When I realized that I had been sitting when Sri Bhagavan went past me. I was horrified. But suddenly I realized that Sri Bhagavan, out of His unbounded grace had granted me an experience whereby I was completely oblivious of my surroundings.
*
On one occasion a large number of people came to the Asramam, unexpectedly and they had to be provided lunch. One of the cooks went to Sri Bhagavan and said: "We are worried because there is not enough food." Sri Bhagavan said: "Don't worry. There will be enough." My uncle was present in the dining hall along with others. Sri Bhagavan looked at almost everyone before He started eating. My uncle said that even before eating most of the people felt full. So each one ate very little and what had been prepared was more than enough.
*****
R.subramanaian,
M P Pandit's view is 'his'.That cannot be projected as what Sri Bhagavan stood for.If we are not refering to Sri Bhagavan in a 'personal'sense-we may as well drop the names of 'Ramana' and 'bhagavan' and simply refer to Truth that was pre-existent before the advent of Sri Bhagavan.Where was the need for Muruganar to compose something akin to mAnikkavachakar's tiruvempAvai?
When we are refering to sri Bhagavan,we are ofcourse refering to the 'personal' aspect and through that we get a peep into the impersonal-not by looking 'outside' but by identifying it within us.It is this inner recognition that is the essence.When we recognize this,we drop all ideas of excusivity.
Namaskar.
Mighty Impersonality: M.P. Pandit:
Excerpts:
Mysticism begins with awakening. The individual awakes to the existence of higher varieties in life and their call on him. He is seized with an intense aspiration to grow into these higher truths and experience them in his own existence. He is no longer satisfied with his humdrum way of life. He seeks the higher values of existence. In the process he learns to denude himself of the habitual attachments to the ordinary and lower attractions of life. This stage is called Purgation. There is an inevitable pain and regret when old things are pulled out from one's nature and thrown out. The old nature protests and revolts. There are periods of depression, gloom in the vital, at having to forego its customary pursuits of pleasures and sense enjoyments. However, this stage of rejection, purification, has to be gone through at whatever cost. When this cleansing has been sufficiently worked out, the third stage begins:
Illumination.....Mysticism is extrovertive when one experiences the Divine Consciousness in the world outside, in the various objects of Nature, for instance. Wherever one turns, one is greeted by the Presence and Breath of God. It is introvertive when the Presence and action of God are felt within oneself. Thoughts, feelings, life-movements -- all converge upon the vibrant presence of God within oneself.
We may note that there are broadly four kinds of mysticism. It is contemplative, when the experience is gained through a long exercise of mental faculties of thinking etc.,
Or it may be a personal change in the being, mainly in the emotional parts and there is an outburst of love, a spontaneous flow of the being towards God in thoughts, feelings etc., One is soaked in devotion, adoration and surrenders himself to the Lord. There we have a Saint.
Or one is overcome by the invasion of Godhead in the form of Nature. Every movement of nature speaks of God and the mystic is held captive
by the beauty and grandeur in Nature.
And last is the practical mysticism. One is drawn to Godhead in the multiple forms of creatures and objects in the world. The heart goes out in compassion, the life energies flow out in the service of fellow beings. One joys in their well being, one suffers by identification with their travails. If the yonder bullock is whipped the marks appear on the arms of this lover of God in forms, mobile and immobile.
It is natural that when this tendency to dwell entirely on the dry peaks of metaphysics becomes excessive, there is a reaction. Men seek for concrete experience that has impact on life, that links them to sources of strength and faith which enable them to face challenges of life with confidence. There is an irresistible urge to contact the Reality, the Divine Truth, directly.... There is a conscious effort to go within, to fathom the depths of one's existence, find the Source....Or three is a call from above and one takes steps to still the lower life movements and open to the higher levels of Consciousness....The character of life undergoes a change and the direction becomes Godward. This is Spirituality.
contd.,
The Mighty Impersonality: M.P.Pandit.
Excerpts - continues....
Now where do we place Sri Bhagavan? In which category? It is difficult to put Him exclusively in any one of these. Though He admits certain religious practices and disciplines that elevate and purify one's life and help in entering the spiritual quest, He is by no means a religionist. He is concerned with preserving the broad framework of the traditions of religion. He does not believe in foisting an abstract philosophy on men who are not ready for it, na buddhi bhedam janayet. He recognizes the gradations in the evolving society and leads men through the well-laid paths, at any rate, in the preparatory stages of the quest. He is a Jnani of the highest order. He is in possession of the core knowledge which give the key to all else, yasmin vijnaate sarvam idam vijnaatam bhavati. But on that account He is not just a philosopher. He lives what He knows and insists that others too do the same. Otherwise, knowledge tends to become a mental preoccupation with little effect on life. He translates His first hand knowledge of the Self into practice. He makes spiritual truth the center and circumference of life. But He does not believe in renouncing the world and retiring into solitude in order to pursue this quest of the Self. It has to be done in the midst of one's daily life. He points out that true renunciation is not external but inner. One carries one's world wherever one goes. Change of place makes little difference. One has to accept the responsibilities and duties that devolve on oneself and discharge them in the spirit and the background of the sadhana of the Self. Man cannot absolve himself from his responsibilities to the society. He has only to change his standpoint and learn to perceive Oneness of the Self in this multitudinous universal movement. You may call it, in this context, pragmatic spirituality. And more.
He is intensely devotional. His outpourings of the heart move us to tears. His compassion is not confined to humans. Plants, animals and birds -- all come in for their share. He scales rare heights of mysticism in His communion with Aruna Hill. To Him this ancient Hill is a living image of Lord Siva, the King of ascetics from whom flows the perennial stream of Divine Grace on the bosom of Mother Earth. He is deeply conversant with the occult secrets of Nature and occasionally shares His insights with those around. Witness His pointing to a particular region during His giri-pradakshina with Kapali Sastri and observing -- "There are Siddhas!" Remember also His conscious journeyings to places like Tiruvottiyur in His subtle body, while staying in His permanent abode at Arunachala. Siddhis came to Him most naturally, though rarely did He speak of them. It is the devotees who were vouchsafed this Grace in moments of crisis or yogic turns that have testified to this side of His life. He was a poet too whose every word has a mantric potency. And He was definitely an Avatara.
contd.,
The Mighty Impersonality: M.P. Pandit:
Excerpts: continues....
Bhagavan Ramana Maharshik was no evolutionary being, like any of us, who came to birth under the compulsion of some past karma. He did not belong to that line of manifestation. He was a direct Emanation from the Divine Being in its aspect of conquering Knowledge,
Skanda Sanatkumara, as affirmed by the great Tapasvin and Seer, Vasishta Ganapati Muni. He was a direct descent of of the Divine Consciousness with a special mission; to give the direct path to the Self, Atman, to a humanity that stood bewildered by the profusion of pathways and philosophies staring before it. He came to open a new horizon, build a direct route to the central Truth of Existence, establish a fresh access in the manner of the Vedic Rishis each of whom founded a new way of Realization. He embodied the inmost truth of the Self and yet chose to live amidst common humanity. He did not walk out to reach of the humbler folk. He made Himself accessible to all, at all hours, without reservation. My teacher Kapali Sastriar, used to say that there is hardly any parallel to Sri Bhagavan in this respect. Buddha moved freely with all for fifty years after his radical realization, at the age of 33. But the Maharshi lived in this manner, exposing Himself to all, for full fifty four years -- a record without comparison in history.
Such is the unique Personality of Sri Bhagavan Ramana. And yet He was supremely impersonal. A Impersonal Person. He functioned apparently in the frame of Time and Space. And yet His was Consciousness that ever breathed of the Eternal. His was a gaze that scanned the Infinite.
He is a Mighty Impersonality.
concluded.
R.Subramanaian,
"Now where do we place Sri Bhagavan? In which category?"
What is the need to put Sri Bhagavan in any category?Do we put our mother or father in any category?All this is only the rambling of the mind.Counting 'Leaves' while setting aside 'Mangoes' as Sri Ramakrishna says.
Namaskar.
Hi David, folks,
Great to see so many commentators of late on Subramanian’s blog! :-)
Re the Sanskrit “idam”. Sorry, have not read the thread preceding, and hopefully my comment is not out of context.
Actually, in the Rg Veda and classical Sanskrit, “idam” means exactly “place”. “Idam” means just “this” when used in conjunction with another word to refer to something immediately following, like “idam-sarvam”, meaning “this world”. Used by itself, “idam” would mean something like “here and now, in this place”. So, I believe that the word really has the same sense whether taken in Sanskrit or Tamil.
I believe that the whole point of the “Who am I” text is that it is not as if “Swarupam” has a “place”. But the search for the Source has to be within the mind-body complex, for it is the limited ego or the mind, which is confined to the mind-body complex, that has to do the searching. If not within the mind-body complex, where will one search for the Source of the Self? Surely, not as imagined on the tree outside the window, or even within the bed on which one is lying? This search can only be to the limits of the envelope that the ego occupies and to which the feeling of “I-ness” extends, i.e. the mind-body complex.
So, one searches for the Source of the “I”, the Heart, within the mind-body complex, but of course no such specific “place” can ever be found. Instead, as the ego dies down via this intense process, “Svarupam” shines of its own, everywhere (or nowhere).
Best wishes
R.Subramanaian/Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER: "Well, Hazra says that after the vision of God one acquires the six divine
powers."
M: "Those who seek pure love don't want powers."
MASTER: "Perhaps Hazra was a poor man in his previous life, and that is why he wants so
much to see the manifestation of power. He wants to know what I talk about with the cook.
He says to me: 'You don't have to talk to the cook. I shall talk to the manager of the temple
myself and see that you get everything you want.' (M. laughs aloud.) He talks to me that
way and I say nothing."
M: "Many a time you have said that a devotee, who loves God for the sake of love does not
care to see God's powers. A true devotee wants to see God as Gopala. In the beginning God
becomes the magnet, and the devotee the needle. But in the end the devotee himself
becomes the magnet, and God the needle; that is to say, God becomes small to His
devotee."
MASTER: "Yes, it is just like the sun at dawn. You can easily look at that sun. It doesn't
dazzle the eyes; rather it satisfies them. God becomes tender for the sake of His devotees.
He appears before them, setting aside His powers."
Both remained silent for some time.
-----------------------------------All bombast and Records are for the consumpion of the mind.The mind is forever caught in such admiration.This is not devotion.
Namaskar.
Friends,
What is the difference between admiration and adoration?
What is the difference betwen a Fan's admiration and adulation of a Sportsman or Filmstar or politician,and the adoration of a devotee?
I wish to have your responses.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
The idea is that there are Yogis, Bhaktas, Karmis, and Jnanis. And there are Siddhas also who are invisible, do extraordinary feats.
One example about Siddhas. When Big Temple was renovated, they found a hole in the sanctum, and the hole was leading somewhere. The priests and workers were afraid not knowing what to do. They came to Sri Bhagavan who was in Virupaksha Cave and asked Him what to do. Sri Bhagavan said that the hole is leading to the center of the Hill where Arunagiri Siddha and other Siddhas stay and they come to the Arunachaleswara to have darshan at midnight. (see His Arunachala Mahatmyam Verse 3). He then added that in order that ordinary mortals do not attempt to go through that way, it is better to close it as before.
Now coming back to Bhaktas, Yogis, Karmis and Jnanis, Sri Pandit is only trying to say that Sri Bhagavan is beyond these categorization. He does not want to label Him under any category, as you seem to think. Sri Bhagavan was a great bhakta (vide Arunachala Stuti Panchakam), great Yogi (see His sky ward travel to Tiruvottiyur to help out Ganapati Muni), great Karmi (At midnight He was seen shifting bricks that had come for Mother's Temple construction, in 1949 when His health was already deteriorating) and a Jnani as we all know. He was all these and beyond all these. Mr. Pandit does not label Him but says that He was beyond labeling.
Sri Bhagavan is a huge elephant. We are all blind men. We are trying to touch one part of the elephant and are trying to say that that part is the full elephant. There is nothing
wrong in that because that is what we can do at best. What is the use of finding fault with this devotee's approach or that writer's approach?
Tiru Navukkarasar found Siva as a curer of his disease. Jnana Sambandha found Him as Mother-Father. Sundaramurti found Him as a mad but good friend. Manikkavachagar found Him as his Nayaka, lover. But Siva is all these and is beyond these too.
Oru Namam oru uruvam illaRku
aaiyiram
Tiru namam paadi naam theLLenam
kottamO
For One who has neither a name nor
a form, let us sing a thousand names and play thelleNam (a game for girls with marbles.)
****
Subramanian
The story about the tunnel to the interior of the hill comes from Kunju Swami's memoir. This is his account:
In the years Sri Bhagavan lived at Virupaksha Cave, he wandered freely all over the mountain. He was to say in later years that there was no part of it that he had not fully explored. On one occasion he even managed to see inside the hill and explore some of its internal mysteries. This strange experience happened on a day when he was sitting in Virupaksha Cave. Without any prior warning or preparation he suddenly found himself entering a state that he said was neither waking nor dreaming. In that new state he found himself entering a cave that was located on Arunachala. Inside the mountain he discovered many pleasant parks, beautiful lakes, and plants and trees covered with flowers and fruit. It was a most wonderful sight. Somehow, the place did not appear new to him. He felt as if he had been there before. At a later date, when Adi-annamalai temple on the north-west side of Arunachala was being renovated, some people noticed, on the eastern side of the temple, a tunnel leading into the hill. Sri Bhagavan was informed of this discovery and when he went for pradakshina the next day he had a look at the tunnel. He noticed that it was similar to the cave he had seen in his vision, but at the time he told no one that it was familiar to him.
When the people in the temple asked him what they should do about it, Sri Bhagavan replied, ‘It is not proper for us to examine it. You must close it up.’
The tunnel was closed according to his instructions. Some time later he was surprised to discover a verse in Arunachala Mahatmyam that seemed to describe the vision he had had. He translated the Sanskrit verse into Tamil and this version can now be found in his Collected Works.
*************
Bhagavan was asked about this incident in 'Letters from Sri Ramanasramam', where he gave a much more prosaic version of the incident. Kunju Swami must have heard this story from someone else since he was not with Bhagavan when it happened. The discrepancy between the two accounts is quite large.
Bhagavan may have been playing the incident down; Kunju Swami might be reporting exaggerated tales he had heard; the truth might be somewhere in between.
R.Subramanaian,
What do we mean by Bhakta,Yogi,Karmi(???)and JnAni?
Do we mean to say that he who composes Hymns alone is a Bhakta and He who travels astrally is a Yogi!He who does some manual labour is a Karmi!All these are just beliefs.
If Sri Bhagavan had not composed those Hymns,and had not done that astral travel,will he be any less?Why should he be GREAT something.Can't we love him as his 'plain vanilla' self?Does his renunciation,equalty for all,treating all as equal,stark simplicity,ever poised in the self-do these things do not count at all.Why all this Grandiose ideas and extendng it to build a larger than life image stuff.This is what I term as admiration.
The Bhakta cares a damn for all this exotic stuff.He has nothing to prove to the world and does not in the least care if others share in that admiration.
Namaskar.
Dear David,
Thanks for the clarification. I thought the cave or hole was in Big Temple. Now you have clarified that it was in Adi Annamalai Temple. Yes, He advised the people concerned to close the cave or the hole.
Sri Bhagavan's experience is, even when I read your post, makes my hairs stand at end. He may be an avatara or may be a Brahma Jnani. But His life cannot be brought under any category. He is beyond all conventional descriptions.
Of course, it is Sri Bhagavan's nature to underplay many miracles. Whether it is boy Ramana having been saved from tank or Ganapati Muni having a touch on his crown in Tiruvottiyur temple, He always underplayed His deeds.
M.P. Pandit calls Him an avatara of Skanda. Personally I also believe so. During one of MY visits, the first visit for my wife, to T'malai, on the way when I got down from the car along with the driver, to get some coffee for us and also for my wife, suddenly my wife had found a young boy entering the car from driver's side, operating the steering, this way, that way and checking up the dash board for CDs.
My wife became afraid. She offered him coffee. He said: I don't want anything. Then my wife cried: Mani, Mani... I did not hear the voice and I and the driver could come only after about 4 to 5 minutes. By the time, we had come back, the boy had left the car. On being told by my wife, I went out and looked for the boy but he was not to be seen anywhere in the vicinity.
Then, that late morning, when we entered the Samadhi Hall, my wife found Sri Bhagavan's young age photo, (1901), sitting in front of the cave with niche of Ganesa, that can be seen behind, and started crying:
It is He who came this morning. It is He who came in the morning. It is He who came into the car and operated the steering. She became hysterical and cried for long. Crowd started gathering.
She is of the firm conviction that Sri Bhagavan had come and operated the steering to ensure that the car is prevented from a possible accident on the way. She became more devoted to Sri Bhagavan though she does not do any meditation or self inquiry. She says: My devotion to Him will take me ashore.
Giri uruvaahiya kirupai kadale
Krupai koornthu aruLuvaai Arunachala! (AAMM)
Thanks once again,
Subramanian. R
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Pandit:Theosophy
"I saw Colonel Olcott too. The Theosophists believe in the existence of mahatmas. They
also speak of the 'lunar', 'solar', 'stellar', and other planes. A Theosophist can go in his 'astral
body' to all these planes. Oh, Olcott said many such things. Well, sir, what do you think of
Theosophy?"
MASTER: "The one essential thing is bhakti, loving devotion to God. Do the Theosophists
seek bhakti? They are good if they do. If Theosophy makes the realization of God the goal
of life, then it is good. One cannot seek God if one constantly busies oneself with the
mahatmas and the lunar, solar, and stellar planes. A man should practise sadhana and pray
to God with a longing heart for love of His Lotus Feet. He should direct his mind to God
alone, withdrawing it from the various objects of the world."
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Subramanian:
["...Then, that late morning, when we entered the Samadhi Hall, my wife found Sri Bhagavan's young age photo, (1901), sitting in front of the cave with niche of Ganesa, that can be seen behind, and started crying: It is He who came this morning. It is He who came in the morning. It is He who came into the car and operated the steering. She became hysterical and cried for long. Crowd started gathering..."]
sir, you'd told this episode before as well. not at all saying this to undermine your 'faith' but i do have a question - don't you think every other boy in tamilnad, in the bracket of 14-18, typically would look as bhagavAn had looked as a lad of 16-17? :-) on the other hand, it's quite plausible that bhagavAn must have looked ordinary enough at that age for only a rare few to suspect something out of the ordinary in him! i'm not a man of faith; perhaps i might stupidly retain my scepticism even if bhagavAn were to appear a dozen times before me :-), but this also doesn't imply that i don't respect whatever faith other people may have :-) that said, i'm also curious whether most events that get categorised as 'unusual' & attributed to this 'faith' are simply instances of delusions masquerading as isolated demonstrations of 'grace'! :-)
R.Subramanian/Friends,
A year back,I have posted this in response to hj's post-"I find all great spiritual teachers appealing but Ramana Maharshi is quite unique"
I am just posting the same here in the context of what our friend R.Subramanian has been saying:
"I find all great spiritual teachers appealing but Ramana Maharshi is quite unique"-This can be explored from various perspectives.From the 'Perspective' of Ishta,one is strongly attracted to something(outer) that echoes one's deepest inner Truth.The 'uniqueness' that one perceives outside in any persona or deity is just a recognition of its presence in oneself,hidden and beyond the normal reach of the external mind.As long as this 'inner Guru' is not recognized,one attaches an extraordinary importance to the 'external'Symbol and differentiates it from others.Once the True source of the 'uniqueness' is identified,it will be found that each and every Sage,Saint or Deity is unique as all are manifestations of the Same Being.One then enjoys the infinite relationships with the divine akin to polygamy!Hence the Sahasra Nama.
So 'Ishta' devata is not something like a forced 'monogamy' but a simple recognition that through it the true nature of 'Relationship' is discovered more easily and which would lead to the Divine Polygamy that includes all and excludes none.
There is another perspective when one says 'X' is unique.This is the mental perspective that mistakes 'admiration' for Love.This leads to comparison and at its worst,it would demean all the others to the exclusion of the one thing admired(I see that what you refer to is not from this perspective).At its best ,it is still based on one's idea of the 'Ideal',some unique Differentiating Factor that sets aside the 'ideal' from all the Rest;that says 'all are Equal but this one is MORE Equal'.
Like how Jesus ,The Christ is differentiated by the Christians by emphasising that he was born 'immaculate'to a virgin and that he died on the 'cross'-making one wonder if he had born or died in any other fashion,Christianity would not have come into existence!
This sort of 'differentiation' is what leads to 'Sects' -what JK used to call as Herd instinct.This leads to disputations of Greatness and divides,and hence is best put aside by the sadhaka.
Namaskar.
December 17, 2010 7:41
R.Subramanian,
"She is of the firm conviction that Sri Bhagavan had come and operated the steering to ensure that the car is prevented from a possible accident on the way. She became more devoted to Sri Bhagavan though she does not do any meditation or self inquiry. She says: My devotion to Him will take me ashore."
She is indeed blessed.Many a time the mind does not know and cannot interpret these happenings.It does not matter whether the boy she actually saw was Ramana or some trickster,It does not matter whether it helped avert a possible accident,etc.
Fact is that she has discovered Sri Bhagavan -and this is what matters.No disputing this.
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"There are innumerable pathways leading to the Ocean of Immortality. The essential thing
is to reach the Ocean. It doesn't matter which path you follow. Imagine that there is a
reservoir containing the Elixir of Immortality. You will be immortal if a few drops of the
Elixir somehow get into your mouth. You may get into the reservoir either by jumping into
it, or by being pushed into it from behind, or by slowly walking down the steps. The effect
is one and the same. You will become immortal by tasting a drop of that Elixir.
----------------------------------
Even if through some delusion one discovers Sri Bhagavan,he or she is blessed.What matters is whether one feels this love for Sri Bhagavan.That cannot be a delusion.
Namaskar.
Dear S.,
Ravi has answered your doubt.
****
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: Verse 26:
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai: Verse No. 1478:
CheruvikaRpam chernthakaLach
chinthai mayal cheRRa
GuruvikaRanenum guNam kurikaLaaga
VaruvikaRpam onRumaru vaadha
RamanaRke
UruvikaRpama evvulagahtum sooksha
KaruvikaRpa vaadhanaiyal kaaN
kanavin kaNNum
IruvikaRpam enbathor ettuNaiyum
inRi
OruvikaRpakaga voLir sahaja bhava
NiruvikaRpamaadi niRaiyelor
Embaavai.
Prof. K. Swaminathan:
It is true, our Guru dwells above
This ruinous world of false
illusions.
No feature, no quality He has
In this dream world of names and
forms
Where subtle vasanas still prevail
Here too He has one shape, not two.
In steady Sahaja He abides.
Bathe in this nirvkalpa water
Maidens, bathe and find
fulfillment.
Muruganar said in Verse 20, 'bathe
in His love, the stream of Bliss.'
In Verse 21, he said 'bathe within
our own hearts' core.' In Verse 23, he said 'bathe in waters of detachment'. In Verse 25, he said 'bathe in the bliss ineffable beyond the play of light and darkness'. Now in Verse 26, he says, 'bathe in this nirvikalpa waters.'
****
Major A.W. Chadwick's Reminiscences:
Major Chadwick served the British army in South America. He came to
Sri Bhagavan in November 1935 and remained there for good.
*
Whenever people came to Sri Bhagavan with their family stories, He would laugh with the happy, and at times shed tears with the bereaved. He never raised His voice. He preferred to every sort of simplicity and liked to sit on the floor, but a couch had been forced upon Him and this became His home for most of the twenty four hours of the day. (David Godman says in Living By the Words Of Bhagavan, "Sometimes in 1928-29, Rangaswami Gounder brought a sofa and asked Sri Bhagavan to sit on it. When Sri Bhagavan refused, he started crying. For three successive days, he was crying in the Hall, begging Bhagavan to accept the gift. Finally on the night of the third day, Sri Bhagavan got off the bench, on which He had been sitting till then, and occupied the sofa.")
*
He would never, if He could help it, allow any preference to be shown to Him. If any attachment on earth could be said of Him, it was surely the Hill. (His poem, a favorite for His devotees too, Arunachala Akshara Manamaalai, is a fine example of bridal mysticism, Madhura Bhakti.)
*
Sri Bhagavan was a very beautiful person; He shone with a visible light or aura. He was always scrupulously clean and His body gave off a faint perfume, though He never used any scented soap.
*
Sri Bhagavan always radiated tremendous peace, but on those occasions when crowds were attracted to the Asramam, such as Jayanti and Deepam days, this increased to an extraordinary degree.
The numbers seem to call up some reserved of a hidden force, and it was a great experience to sit with Him at such times. (In David Godman's Living By The Words Of Bhagavan, Annamalai Swami says: "Many devotees including myself, felt that He radiated more than the usual amount of power and grace on Jayanti days.")
*
Sri Bhagavan had a great sense of humor, and when talking a smile was never far from His face. He had many jokes in His repertoire and was a magnificent actor. He would always dramatize the protagonist of any story He related. When the recital was very pathetic He would be filled with emotions and could not proceed. (see also T.R. Kankammal's reminiscences.)
*
The Taylors, an American couple, came to the Asramam. Taylor was a retired postmaster. they became much attached to Sri Bhagavan. One day, Mrs. Taylor suddenly said in the Hall, "Bhagavan, I want Self Realization." "Wait," replied Sri Bhagavan, "it will come in due time.". "No", she answered, "that is no good. I want it here and now." Sri Bhagavan tried to explain to her that when she was ready everything would work out all right. But she insisted. She must have it here and now and it was up to Him to give it to her. Sri Bhagavan said nothing further and gazed at her steadily in the eyes for some minutes or so. She suddenly burst into tears and rushed out of the Hall, but would never tell anybody what had happened.
****
The Quest: Lucia Osborne:
Part X. Self realization and the Guru:
When someone asked Sri Bhagavan what was the greatest miracle in this world is, He replied that it was the human body. "It is insentient like a log of wood and yet behaves as if it was an individual being. It is the Self which illumines it and gives it some intelligence and understanding but the light is mixed with tamasic propensities of the body. We only function by the Light of the Self mixed with darkness. Like electric bulbs in various stages of cleanliness and of different voltage which come to life (light) when the electric current passes through them. The current is the same in all. Christ-Brahman, the Self in one's heart."
On another occasion He said: "Everything is unreal, like dream objects. A Jnani's job is to awaken the ignorant of the fact that what they see and feel is unreal and the Reality is their own Being. This can be compared to an elephant dreaming of a lion and suddenly waking up and finding that the lion is unreal and that it alone is real. The elephant is the Jiva or the individual, the dream is the unreal world and the lion, the Jnani or Guru. The guru is the link between the unreal and the Real."
"Is it not ignorance to know everything else without knowing the Self which is the Source of Knowledge?
"What is neither knowledge nor ignorance is (real) knowledge. Knowledge of objects cannot be real. The self which shines without there being anything else to know or be known is Knowledge. Know that it is not nothingness.
"If the first person exists, the second or third person will also exist. If the Reality of the first person is inquired into and the first person (ego) ceases to exist, the second and third person will also cease to exist and our real State will shine as One.
"Attaching itself to a form (that is the body) this formless ghost of an ego comes into existence. Attaching itself to a form it endures. Attaching itself to a form it feeds (experiences) and grows. On relinquishing one form it attaches itself to another. But when sought after it takes a flight. This know.
"If the ego is, everything else is too. If the ego is not, nothing else is. Indeed the ego is everything. Therefore the inquiry
what it is really means giving up everything.
"We speak of a past and a future only with reference to the present. The past in its time was called the present and future when it comes will also be called the present. Hence what exists at any one time is only the present. To seek to know the past and the future without knowing the real nature of the present is to seek to count without the unit, One.
"Is there time and space apart from us? If we regard ourselves as the body, we will be bound by space and time. But are we the body? We are the same now, then and always...We alone exist who are beyond time and space."
(ULLadu NaRpadu)
continued.....
The Quest: Lucia Osborne:
Part X - continues....
Over the years, the same questions and doubts kept on cropping up and Sri Bhagavan kept on explaining again and again tirelessly, patiently from various angles adapted to the level of understanding of the questioner. Most often asked was the question how to practice the Vichara or still the mind.
Some devotees found it difficult to believe that we are unreal, dreaming ourselves and the world. Sri Bhagavan explained: "Man identified himself with the body which is insentient. A spurious 'I' arises between Pure Consciousness and the insentient body and it imagines itself to be limited to the body. Seek this and it will vanish like a phantom. the phantom is the ego or mind or individuality." The whole Sadhana consists in the illusory limited self -- the individuality - finding
out that it never ceased to be the Self.
On another occasion, Sri Bhagavan said: "Everything is unreal, like dream objects. A Jnani's job is to awaken the ignorant to the fact that what they see and feel is unreal and the Reality is their own Being." Here He repeated the comparison to elephant dreaming of a lion and suddenly waking up and finding that the lion is unreal and that it alone is real.
"By and by comes the great awakening, and then we find out that this life is really a great dream. Fools think they are awake now and flatter themselves they know if they are really princes or peasants. Confucius and you are both dreams, and I who say you are dreams, I am but a dream myself." (Chuang Tsu).
There is no mystery of the physical world which does not point to a mystery beyond itself is the view of Einstein. In other words, the world is a reflection of the 'beyond' and to a discerning mind symbols become evident. For instance, diamond and coal both consist of the same chemical substance, carbon and point to the fundamental unity of all substances and their inherent faculty of transformation as pointed out in The Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism by Lama Anagarika Govinda. This symbolizes the transcendental state of emptiness or the void and the relation between the highest and the ordinary state of consciousness. To put it simply, a cup or a room both consisting of space encircled by matter, porcelain or bricks. The emptiness or void in the cup or a room which gives itself to so many uses, is what is of importance. The matter encircling the space serves a purpose.
Both point to a profound parallelism between the material and the immaterial world. Emptiness - Space and galaxies.
The faculty of transformation as shown in coal and diamond is universal. It applies to matter as well as to living organisms and to the psychic forces inherent in both. What about food? Whatever we eat turns into body and affects the mind. People in South India, for instance are predominantly vegetarian and of a gentler disposition than those in North India who are known to be fighters and non vegetarian. It reminds one of Walter de la Mare's quaint little poem:
It is an odd thing
As odd as can be
That whatever Miss T eats
Turns into Miss T
Buddha spoke of the void containing millions of universes, a void which is no void, or the All-Source or more than anything one could say or imagine. It is not augmented by the appearance of the worlds nor diminished by their disappearances. Like a screen which remains unchanged whether pictures appear or disappear on it. We are caught up in the pictures. Spiritual Reality is the absence of all particularized relative realities, all particularized forms of knowledge or concepts.
Sri Bhagavan: "Realization is only removal of obstacles to the recognition of the eternal, immanent Reality. Reality Is."
continued....
Maneesha wrote from "Who am I":
Q: Then where is the need of giving expression to one's longing?
M: No need. Doing nothing is as good. Mere longing, undiluted by thought and action, pure, concentrated longing, will take you speedily to your goal. It is the true motive that matters, not the manner.
Bhagavan also told the same thing - The Power of Presence, Part 3, Page 150:
(An old man wanted to do service to attain liberation..."
Sri Bhagavan told him, "What service can you do at your age? You need not go out and do anything. Just cling steadfastly to the thought "I must attain salvation", and that itself will lead you to salvation"
------------------------
Many times, when I get bored of Japa or Enquiry, I simply walk in the gardin repeating the same words trying to generate the emotion/desire.
Regards Murali
Ravi and friends, Admiration verses adoration; that is a good question.
As a keen fan I guess the overriding feeling would be one of agitation and excitement. A young person could daydream that the celebrity would notice them. We could call that infatuation.
In an organization the response would be great respect and fear for the boss or 'top dog' as he has the power to hire and fire. Perhaps there is more trepidation that admiration. Visiting a Jnani there would be some subliminal expectation; then the feeling of calm serenity would give one the sense of 'the real McCoy' The adoration would flow from that.
Last but not least with all the talk, would we recognise a Jnani if we met one?
I am sorry for the typo in the previous posting of mine
Error:
Maneesha wrote from "Who am I":
Correct:
Maneesha wrote from "I am That":
hey jude/Friends,
Thanks for your response.Admiration vs Adoration-We wll go into this in snippets.
Admiration is a thing of the mind and is all about the image of the object of admiration-There are some specific things that go into the builing up of the image-like the Intelligence,Skill,Beauty,popularity,etc.This necessarily depends on the mind of the admirer and the image that he carries about the object.
Adoration is about the dissolution of all images.There is only Love.
-----------------------------------
This is the first snippet.
More later.
Namaskar.
Friends,
I have posted about the conversation between Sri Ramakrishna and th Householder disciple Surendra earlier-from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"SURENDRA:"Sir, why can't I meditate?"
MASTER:"You remember God and think of Him, don't you?"
SURENDRA:"Yes, sir. I go to sleep repeating the word 'Mother'."
MASTER:"That is very good. It will be enough if you remember God and think of Him."
Sri Ramakrishna had taken Surendra's responsibilities on himself. Why should Surendra
worry about anything?"
Here is what happens subsequently.An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Surendra stood near Sri Ramakrishna. He was in the habit of drinking and often went to
excess. This had worried the Master greatly, but he had not asked Surendra to give up
drinking altogether. He had said to him: "Look here, Surendra! Whenever you drink wine,
offer it beforehand to the Divine Mother. See that your brain doesnt become clouded and
that you don't reel The more you think of the Divine Mother, the less you will like to drink
The Mother is the Giver of the bliss of divine inebriation. Realizing Her, one feels a natural
bliss."
The Master looked at Surendra and said, "You have had a drink." With these words he went
into samadhi. It was dusk. Regaining partial consciousness, the Master sang:
Behold my Mother playing with Siva, lost in an ecstasy of joy!
Drunk with a draught of celestial wine, She reels, and yet She does not fall. . .
Then he chanted the name of Hari, clapping his hands occasionally. In a sweet voice he
said: "Hari! Hari! O mind, chant the name of Hari! Sing the name of Hari!" Then he
chanted: "Rama! Rama Rama! Rama!"
Now the Master began to pray: "O Rama! O Rama! I am without devotion and austerity,
without knowledge and love; I have not performed any religious rites. O Rama, I have
taken refuge in Thee; I have taken shelter at Thy feet. I do not want creature comforts; I do
not seek name and fame. O Rama, I do not crave the eight occult powers; I do not care for a
hundred occult powers! I am Thy servant. I have taken refuge in Thee. Grant, O Rama, that
I may have pure love for Thy Lotus Feet; that I may not be deluded by Thy world bewitching
maya! O Rama, I have taken refuge in Thee."
As the Master prayed all eyes were turned toward him. Hearing his piteous voice, few
could restrain their tears."
continued...
Friends,
Surendra and Sri Ramakrishna continued...
Advice to Surendra
MASTER (to Surendra): "Come here every now and then. Nangta used to say that a brass
pot must be polished every day; otherwise it gets stained. One should constantly live in the
company of holy men.
"The renunciation of 'woman and gold' is for sannyasis. It is not for you.
Now and then you should go into solitude and call on God with a yearning heart. Your
renunciation should be mental.
"Unless a devotee is of the heroic type he cannot pay attention to both God and the world.
King Janaka lived a householder's life only after attaining perfection through austerity and
prayer. He fenced with two swords, the one of Knowledge and the other of action."
The Master sang:
This very world is a mansion of mirth;
Here I can eat, here drink and make merry.
Janaka's might was unsurpassed;
What did he lack of the world or the Spirit?
Holding to one as well as the other,
He drank his milk from a brimming cup!
Duties of householders
MASTER: "For you, as Chaitanya said, the disciplines to be practised are kindness to living
beings, service to the devotees, and chanting the name of God.
(To Surendra) "Why do I say all this to you? You work in a merchant's office. I say this to
you because you have many duties to perform there.
"You tell lies at the office. Then why do I eat the food you offer me? Because you give
your money in charity; you give away more than you earn. 'The seed of the melon is bigger
than the fruit', as the saying goes.
"I cannot eat anything offered by miserly people. Their wealth is squandered in these ways:
first, litigation; second, thieves and robbers; third, physicians; fourth, their wicked
children's extravagance. It is like that.
Master praises charity
"Your giving money away in charity is very good. Those who have money should give in
charity. The miser's wealth is spirited away, but the money of the charitable person is
saved. He spends it for a righteous purpose. At Kamarpukur I have seen the farmers cutting
channels to irrigate their fields. Sometimes the water rushes in with such force that the
ridges around the fields are washed away and the crops destroyed. For this reason the
farmers make holes here and there in the ridges. Since the water escapes through the holes,
the ridges are not destroyed by the rush of the water. Furthermore, the escaping water
deposits soft clay in the fields, which increases their fertility and gives a richer crop. He
who gives away in charity achieves great results. He achieves the four fruits: dharma, artha,
kama, and moksha."
The devotees listened with great attention to Sri Ramakrishna's words.
SURENDRA: "I cannot meditate well. I repeat the Divine Mother's name now and then.
Lying in bed, I repeat Her name and fall asleep."
MASTER: "That is enough. You remember Her, don't you?"
continued....
Murali,
Interesting typo - Who am I? I am That :-)
Murali/Maneesha,
When I am not in right frame of mind to enquire, I see that there is lack of inerest in carrying out plan B too. I used to still carry on taking His name. After sometime, the mins would be more satvic. I somehow still used to doubt its "worth" as such as there was no "quality/urge" in such japa. But this conversation from "I am That" not only tels that it works but also explains why. Great!
Friends,
The story of Surendra as it figures in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,continued....
It was Vijaya day, the fourth day of the worship of Durga, when the image is immersed in
water. On that day the Divine Mother returns to Her heavenly abode at Mount Kailas,
leaving gloom in the hearts of Her devotees. It was eight o'clock in the morning. The air
was chilly. Though ill, Sri Ramakrishna was sitting on his bed. He was like a five year-old
child who knows nothing but its mother. NavaGopal, M., and a few other devotees were
present.
Master consoles Surendra
Surendra arrived and sat down. The Divine Mother had been worshipped at his house for
the past three days. Sri Ramakrishna had not been able to go there on account of his illness,
but he had sent some of his disciples. Surendra was in a very unhappy mood because on
this day the image of the Mother was to be immersed in the water.
SURENDRA "I had to run away from home."
MASTER (to M.): "What if the image is thrown into the water? May Mother dwell in the
heart!"
Surendra was disconsolate. He was crying to the Divine Mother and talking to Her. At this
yearning of his beloved disciple Sri Ramakrishna could not control his tears. He looked at
M. and said in a choked voice: "What bhakti! Ah, what great love he feels for God!"
MASTER (to Surendra): "Yesterday evening at seven or seven-thirty I saw your worship
hall in a vision. I saw the divine image full of effulgence. This place and your hall were
joined by a stream of light flowing between them."
SURENDRA "At that time I was crying to the Mother in the worship hall. My elder
brothers had gone upstairs. I thought the Mother said, 'I will come again.' " It was about
eleven o'clock in the morning. Sri Ramakrishna finished his meal. M. poured water into his
hand for him to rinse his mouth."
-------------------------------------
After the Master's passing away ,Surendra supported the young monastic disciples financially and took care of the major portion of the expenses towards the renting of the Baranagore mutt.
Surendra's life is inspirational that irrespective of one's failings,if we have unpretentious devotion to God and guru,that in itself will carry one home.
Namaskar.
Anonymous Wrote:
"When I am not in right frame of mind to enquire, I see that there is lack of inerest in carrying out plan B too."
There is a plan C which will push you to plan B :-)
Plan C is a purely selfish materialistic one - the path of Dhruva....tempting oneself that whatever materialistic things we are enamored with, will be given 1000 folds to us if we can achieve liberation.
References for Path C:
1. Gita Chapter 6, verse 22
2. Bible: "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and everything shall be added unto you"
Regards Murali
salutations to all:
Murali/Ravi/Subramanian/Others:
to link up your alternative 'plans' with ravi's question, 'plan C' is what's 'admiration', and more importantly, irrespective of what one may say or what one may want to believe, for most of us, it's only 'plan C' :-). to deny it would amount to courting a greater danger, better known as 'hypocrisy'! i'd presume that this so-called 'bhakti' thing starts with 'admiration' and concludes with 'adoration', and if 'adoration' is the 'dissolution of images' as ravi put it, there seems to be no question of this happening without 'realisation', for as long as one is in the 'i'm-the-body' idea (the biggest 'image' of all?), talking of the 'dissolution of all images' doesn't arise :-) hence, it appears, excepting for the word 'adoration', i indeed know nothing to talk about it :-)
S Wrote:
"i'd presume that this so-called 'bhakti' thing starts with 'admiration' and concludes with 'adoration',"
For me, Bhakti OR attraction towards God starts with purely selfish reasons - i.e., the need for safety, security, Food, protection etc., Motiveless devotion is a far cry for me.
And why Not? As Thakur told, "Force your needs on the Lord. Afterall, he is our Father".
Yesterday, I was in tears before the Lord because something did not go well at work but concluded that if I attain HIM, I can become the Chairman of this same company:-) - A pure Dhruva approach. Eventually, perhaps, I hope to become a Prahlada.
Regards Murali
salutations to all:
Subramanian/Ravi:
["...'The effect is one and the same. You will become immortal by tasting a drop of that Elixir.' Even if through some delusion one discovers Sri Bhagavan, he or she is blessed..."]
i agree; neither had i disagreed with it earlier. what thAkur said (my salutations to his padmapAdam) doesn't mean that one assumes or deludes oneself to have tasted 'elixir' when one actually hasn't! say, something unusual intervenes in a crisis, one is grateful at the 'tidbit' but most often the issue doesn't end there; there is a baggage that more often than not tags along - somehow one also starts imagining oneself to have been favoured exclusively by the operation of grace, isn't it? first, if grace is 'exclusive', it doesn't seem to be 'grace' at all; second, shouldn't we at least be wondering that where was this 'grace' when several others also might have called for 'help' in their times of duress? this has the potential to lead one to an enormously ridiculous inference of - "how lucky i'm! i've been 'called', unlike so many others who continue to be immersed in the world" - just an alternative method of 'fattening' the same 'i', not getting rid of it!
thus, if one has to thank 'grace', one has to thank it for everything, isn't it? in some of my own less than half-baked experiences, i've felt glad to thank grace for the help i was helplessly waiting for, but i can't deny that i'd also felt a lot more happier when i thanked the same grace for a help that never arrived despite my hopelessly longing for it! :-) it's one thing for a 'master' like thAkur or bhagavAn to say, if at all said, 'it's grace that brought you here' but quite another for a 'student' to get that into his/her head...
Friends,
It is the same old paradox of 'Effort and Grace' that you see in everything that exists i.e in Bhaktha terms you have to make an effort to surrender.
Causelessness doesn't exist without a cause at the beginning and lessenning as one progressively empties into 'ness'.
I asked many people where does Effort end and Grace begin: a monk confirmed to me it is a question of 'Wisdom' i.e experience.So there is no fixed formula for this with finality/highest being there is no difference between action and inaction as confirmed by Madhwa and termed as 'Panilenivaadu' by Bhagawan.
He further added You have no right to ask about the fruits; to do your effort is your duty which basically talks about working without any attachment to Fruit which I guess is an ideal 'Imitation of Bhagawan'.
These are conceptual answers to concepts we created.Derivatives of the unknown U.
Buddha tried to remove the root concept of God and tried to formulate his theory entirely of E for effort.But we know there is the Blessings and Grace of the monks by the laymen in the monasteries and E the emotionals complain of Dryness in Buddhism.I agree.
Finally without Effort the 3G God,Grace,Guru do not exist becuase even for Grace there is Eligibility which is nothing but E for Effort.It may not always be about Effort what if you are born lame or blind or some such social situation there you have no choice but to take it and re-adjust your Expectations.For this we have come with another concept called Past-Karma.
Some propose another middling concept:Effort and Grace are like the two wings of a bird and you need both to move ahead.
A lesson I learnt:Just play along and make the best effort possible and dont think too much i.e dont talk/intellectualize too much.Too much intellectual chit-chat will do serious harm.
Like Buddha called in the pali canon these are all the thicket of concepts, fetter of views each dependently arising out of others.
Do you see how much damage all these myriad concepts/beliefs/religions can do i.e if they are capable of great help then they are also capable of great damage.May a cave man can easily find salvation as he does not have so much concepts in his head.
Take your Pick and Go get out and make some money.Dont waste your time in intellectualization or other compulsive behaviours in the name of Parayana.I am trying to.
The same confusion/paradox ratified by Tagore in Geetanjali:
My debts are large,
my failures great,
my shame secret and heavy;
yet I come to ask for my good,
I quake in fear lest my prayer be granted.
(Poem 28)
s/hj/Friends,
Let us forget self realization for the time being in exploring what adoration is.
our friend hj was wondering whether we can adore only a 'Jnani' and whether at all we can recognize one.
Is it true that we have to adore a 'JnAni'?Why should it be so?
How about a Baby?Do we admire or adore?Do we care whether it is white or black,rich or poor,etc.
We can easily see that in adoration there is no 'image' that we carry.It is spontaneous.
Shall we say that spontaneity is one of the aspects that goes along with adoration?There is nothing contrived,nothing by way of persuation in adoration.
More later.
Namaskar.
hey jude/friends,
"Last but not least with all the talk, would we recognise a Jnani if we met one?"
Whether we can recognize a Jnani or not is not of much consequence when it comes to adoration.For 'Jnani' also an image!
Yet the following conversation between Paul Brunton and Master Mahasaya from 'A search in Secret India' is interesting:
"Will you tell me something about your master Ramakrishna?"
"Ah, now you raise a subject about which I love best to
talk. It is nearly half a century since he left us, but his blessed
memory can never leave me; always it remains fresh and
fragrant in my heart. I was twenty-seven when I met him and
was constantly in his society for the last five years of his life.
The result was that I became a changed man; my whole
attitude towards life was reversed. Such was the strange
influence of this god-man Ramakrishna. He threw a spiritual
spell upon all who visited him. He literally charmed them,
fascinated them. Even materialistic persons who came to
scoff became dumb in his presence."
"But how can such persons feel reverence for spirituality
- a quality in which they do not believe?" I interpose, slightly
puzzled.
The corners of Mahasaya's mouth pull up in a half smile.
He answers:
"Two persons taste red pepper. One does not know its
name; perhaps he has never even seen it before. The other is
well acquainted with it and recognizes it immediately. Will it
not taste the same to both? Will not both of them have a burning
sensation on the tongue? In the same way, ignorance of
Ramakrishna's spiritual greatness did not debar materialistic
persons from 'tasting' the radiant influence of spirituality
which emanated from him."
.........."I had been educated along Western lines. My head was
filled with intellectual pride. I had served in Calcutta colleges
as Professor of English Literature, History and Political
Economy, at different times. Ramakrishna was living in the
temple of Dakshineswar, which is only a few miles up the river
from Calcutta. There I found him one unforgettable spring
day and listened to his simple expression of spiritual ideas born
of his own experience. I made a feeble attempt to argue with
him but soon became tongue-tied in that sacred presence,
whose effect on me was too deep for words. Again and again
I visited him, unable to stay away from this poor, humble
but divine person, until Ramakrishna one day humorously
remarked:
" ' A peacock was given a dose of opium at four o'clock. The
next day it appeared again exactly at that hour. It was under
the spell of opium and came for another dose.'
"That was true, symbolically speaking. I had never enjoyed
such blissful experiences as when I was in the presence of
Ramakrishna, so can you wonder why I came again and again?"
-----------------------------------
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna where the Master talks about the attraction that devotees felt in his presence:
Master:(To Mahendra Mukherji and the others) "I shall feel very happy to know that you are being
benefited by your visits here. (To M.) Why do people come here? I don't know much of
reading and writing."
M.: "God's power is in you. That is why there is such power of attraction. It is the Divine
Spirit that attracts."
MASTER: "Yes, this is the attraction of Yogamaya, the Divine Sakti. She casts the spell.
God performs all His lila through the help of Yogamaya."
-----------------------------------
Please note that none of the Master's devotees thought of him as a Great Jnani,or Great yogi or any super person.They were drawn by his childlike,unreserved Love for God.Not a single one ever admired him!
Namaskar.
s/Friends,
"Even if through some delusion one discovers Sri Bhagavan, he or she is blessed.."
This is to be simply understood.All that has been said is that even if it was a false start,the landing can be perfect.
The key is the prolonged shedding of tears -Prolonged and inconsolable,what R.Subramanian for want of a better understanding has termed as 'hysterical'.This churning within is not easily understood by the mind and it will find some pedestrian ,silly reason.
No ratiocination can decipher this.
It will be a gross error of judgement to dismiss this as a pure sentimental stuff of a mind caught in its fancy and imagining a certain act of Intervention and Grace.
-----------------------------------
Here is an excerpt from The Talks of conversations of Swami Turiyananda:
June 20, 1915. It was morning. Swami Turiyananda was singing: “Ah, when will dawn that blessed day when tears of joy will flow from my eyes while I chant the name of the Lord?” Then the Swami turned to us: “Do you ever weep for God? How wonderful is the state when the name of the Lord brings tears to the eyes!”
SWAMI SHIVANANDA: “When I first began to visit Sri Ramakrishna, I often felt like crying. One night at Dakshineswar, by the bank of the Ganges, I wept to my heart’s content. In the meantime the Master had been asking for me. When I returned to his room, he said: ‘You know, if you weep before the Lord, your tears wipe out the mind’s impurities of many births, and his grace immediately descends upon you. It is good to weep before the Lord.’
“Another day I was meditating at the Panchavati. I was absorbed. Sri Ramakrishna was returning from the pine grove. When he looked at me, I began to sob. The Master stood beside me without uttering a word. A thrill went through my heart, and I began to tremble uncontrollably. Later I followed the Master to his room. He remarked to someone about my weeping: ‘These are no ordinary tears; they are tears of ecstasy.’ Then he made me sit near him and gave me something to eat."
--------------------------------------------------------
It is prudent to keep these to oneself-and not make these experiences public.
I agree with our friend 's' that this cannot be made out into a tale of 'Intervention' and act of Grace-as a Fantastic miracle of Sri Bhagavan who appeared as the boy in the car.The True miracle was the subsequent discovery of Sri Bhagavan by that blessed soul and the Devotion and faith she has in him.
Namaskar.
Zee/Friends,
"in Bhaktha terms you have to make an effort to surrender"
Does Love involve effort?Surrender(This is not a proper translation of saranAgati)is where Love is.
'Making an effort Effort to surrender' is meaningless.That is only pretence.
Namaskar.
S. said: ["second, shouldn't we at least be wondering that where was this 'grace' when several others also might have called for 'help' in their times of duress? this has the potential to lead one to an enormously ridiculous inference of - "how lucky i'm! i've been 'called' "]
The statistical term for this is 'selection bias'. Wiki defines it thus: "The term "selection bias" most often refers to the distortion of a statistical analysis, resulting from the method of collecting samples."
I have a few friends who are the followers of a famous teacher, and they consider themselves the 'chosen ones'. I guess this is the sort of thinking which 's.' was suggesting as dangerous.
best wishes,
Today is Swami Vivekananda's 150th birthday. I would like to re-iterate the following famous quote
"Take up one idea. Make that idea you life - think of it, dream of it, live on that idea. Let the brain, muscles, nerves every part of the body be full of that idea and leave every other idea alone. This is the way to success".
The above is applicable to what Bhagavan said to entertain constantly the thought "I want to get liberated".
Regards Murali
m,
"I have a few friends who are the followers of a famous teacher, and they consider themselves the 'chosen ones'"
Yes,this again is part of the admiration vs adoration theme we are exploring!They are jumping onto a bandwagon that gives them a distinct "identity' or Image-'The Chosen ones'!This involves a sort of Projection of all their 'pet ideas' on the object of admiration and bask in that reflected Glory.The More the number of admirers the greater the glory.
The Object of admiration becomes a 'saviour','Dispenser of Boons' ever willing to satisfy their Prayers-'all Prayers are immediately Granted' etc.The 'Prayers' may be getting a lucrative job,or begetting a male child,curing of some disease,getting an American visa,etc,etc.
This is more of an attachment mixed with admiration that can take the form of 'adoration'.Yet the key question is -Whether it helps one to efface himself completely?If not,one is caught up in delusion.
The worst form of image is that one is a 'Devotee'!I am a 'Ramakrishna Devotee' or a 'Ramana devotee' ,a 'Saibaba' devotee.
One of the difficult questions that I always find hard to answer is when some one asks me whether I am a 'X''s Devotee?This is invariably the question that I face in the various public places.
If I say 'No' then the questioner will wonder why then am I there in that place.I usually end up saying -'I think I am just a devotee.I am not sure if I am one'.
How can I possibly tell them that I only come to quench my thirst and irrespective of whether it is aqua fina or Bisleri or any other brand,it is the water that quenches the thirst.All these bottles hold the same 'Water'.(Now I am just giving this as an example-Now let us not extend it to the traces of toxins that these may contain,the degree of purity,etc,etc!)
The question is prompted partly by curiosity and partly by this unconscious desire to spot another 'Fan' like oneself.
Yes,'s' point is understood .It is for everyone to see where he or she is.
Namaskar.
murali,
Thanks for that wonderful Swamiji's message.How beautifully Sri Ramakrishna says the same thing ,much more vividly:
"One should have faith in the holy name given by the guru and with it practise spiritual
discipline. It is said that the pearl oyster makes itself ready for the rain that falls when the
star Svati is in the ascendant. Taking a drop of that rain, it dives into the fathomless depths
of the ocean and remains there until the pearl is formed."
Namaskar.
Dear all,
I am of the view that there are as many types of devotion as there are
devotees.
Andal says in Tiruppavai, Verse 5:
We shall come to you clean in body and pure in heart, we shall shower
flowers (at your feet). We shall sing and contemplate in mind. Then all the sins of the past (sanchita)
and all the sins of the current birth (prarabdha) will burn as dust in fire. This is her bhakti.
Saint Manikkavachagar says in TirupaLLi Ezhucchi: Some play veena and yazh (before you). Some chant Rks and sing Stotras. Some hold their hands together and do prayers. Some weep. Some become wreathed in their limbs (due to intense devotion). Some hold their hands above their heads and pray.
(Verse 4). This is Manikkavachagar.
*
Narada in his Bhakti Sutras says:
Bhakti has been described as the supreme love towards Him.
This devotion is also of the nature of immortality, that is, this love is undying.
By attaining which the devotee's objects are fulfilled, he becomes immortal and becomes ever satisfied. What is his object? His object is love for love's sake.
After obtaining which (devotion) the devotee does not anything else, does not grieve, does not hate anything, does not enjoy anything else, and does not feel encouraged to do anything else.
After knowing which (that) the devotee becomes like an intoxicated person, becomes free from all activities like an inert object, and finds all joy in his own Self.
Devotion does not require anything else because it is attained through complete control of the senses.
Control or cessation means discarding public opinion, the injunctions of the Veda and all activities.
In that devotion there is cessation of everything other than one pointed devotion and indifference to things opposed to it.
Discarding the resorting to everything else (other than devotion or God) is one- pointedness.
*
Again the girls in Tiruvembavai say: After this (intense devotion to You), why do we even care in
which direction the Sun rises?
Sri Bhagavan says one who has sacrificed himself in Swarupam and remains always an Atmanishta is the greatest devotee. (Who am I?)
He also says that if the ego could curl up in the Source, that is bhakti, yoga, karma and jnana. (Verse 19 of Upadesa Undiyar).
There can be any number of names, adoration, admiration, devotion, love. It is all the same.
****
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: Verse 27.
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, Verse
1479:
ThuNar maalai choodeventhoy vendhoL
enRen
Unarvumikkeer polujnaRRu nonbeerkaaL
VaNamonRum illan vadivu onRum illan
Gunam onRum illan Kuri onRum illan
Unarchi onRillaan unaRAmai illan
KaNichikaNNavanbar kattazhikka
vallaan
INaichu vettarkav iRai Ramananodu
Punarchi thaanum puNape pon melor
Embavaai.
Prof. K. Swaminathan:
Maidens who have vowed in love,
"Garlanded with clustering flowers
We shall touch shoulders and be
one",
No hue He has, no form, no feature,
No quality, no passion, but
compassion.
His sword-like glance slays
devotees.
Seekers of oneness find in this
Oneness with sovereign Ramana, true
Oneness and true fulfilment.
In oneness dive, maidens and bathe.
Muruganar asks: For the One who has no form and name, no color and feature, how to garland Him and touch His shoulders? The maidens want to do that garlanding because it is their idea of Bhakti.
Sri Bhagavan never allowed anyone to garland Him in all His life. Once He asked the devotee to place the garland on the photo of Sri Ramakrishna in the Hall. On another occasion, He said that the garland could be placed on Matrubhuteswara Lingam.
****
I am reading the Periapuranam and I found that Sri Manikkavachagar's life is not included here.
Why it that ? Is it because Sri Manikkavachagar lived after the Periapuranam was written ?
So, strictly speaking, we should say 64 Nayanmars instead of 63, is it not ?
Also, just finished reading a small booklet on Swami Vivekananda's return to India.
I discovered that he first reached Indian soil (Pamban) on January 26th, 1897. January 26th also happens to be the Indian Republic Day. And August 15th - the Indian Independence Day - happens to be the birthday of Sri Aurobindo. And Sri Ramakrishna attained Mahasamadhi on the night of August 15th/16th 1886.
My mind tells me that these are only co-incidences and we should not read too much into these things but my heart insists that these dates are somehow intimately connected with these great saints and India is blessed because of that.
Thank you,
shiv
Sivapraksam Pillai Liberation Day:
12.01.2012:
Sivaprakasam Pillai who was responsible for Sri Bhagavan's famous prose work Who am I? merged with Arunachala on Tuesday, Jan. 12. 1948.
*
Many details about Sivaprakasam Pillai's life are known to blog
members and hence not repeated here.
*
Who am I? is the only original prose work of Sri Bhagavan. It was
WRITTEN BY HIM on a sandy sand in 1901-1902. Sivapraksam Pillai's questions were answered over a few days and not on a single day.
*
When the news of Sivaprakasam Pillai's passing away was informed to Sri Bhagavan, in Jan. 1948, He said in Tamizh, meaning, Sivaprakasam has become the light of Siva. Thus He confirmed his liberation.
*
Though Pillai did not stay in Tiruvannamalai permanently unlike many other devotees, he continued to visit Sri Bhagavan upto 1947.
*
He had several visions about Sri Bhagavaan and these are described in his Anugraha Ahaval.
*
Once a devotee asked Sri Bhagavan, "Sivaprakasam Pillai, who is such good man, such an ardent devotee and a long standing disciple, has written a poem saying that Sri Bhagavan's instructions could not be carried out effectively in practice. What can be the lot of others then?" Sri Bhagavan replied:
"Sri Acharya (Sri Sankara) also says similar things when he composes songs in praise of any deity. How else can they praise God?" (Talks No. 630) That is, if one adopts jiva bhava and praises God, one cannot but sing of the limitation and shortcomings of one's individual existence, as can be seen even from the Hymns of Sri Bhagavan Himself in praise of Arunachala.
*
Sri Pillai has, apart from Anugraha Ahaval, written a Sri Ramana Charita Ahaval. This long poem was completed by Sri Sadhu Om, (after Pillai's 647 lines) totally with 915 lines.
*
In Sri Ramana Pada Maalai, Verse 33, Sri Pillai says:
Thazha thazha nalam mihum enRu
Thazhvon padam vahagave!
Blessed be the feet of the exemplar of humility who say, 'The more one humbles oneself, the more one benefits. Get rid of hatred even towards the wicked.
In Verse 42, he says:
Mariyadha thaan veLikkam enRu
Vahuppon padam vaazhhave;
Arivai purusharku amaLiyil ethu en
ARaion padam vaazhagave!
That is, the all respect to Guru is only outside. After attaining oneness with the Self there is no second to show respect. Between a wife and her husband, the wife respects the husband only outside. In the bedroom, in experiencing sexual union, there is no second to respect.
*
What is real darsan? Sri Pillai says in one of his stray verses:
Without realizing what exactly Ramana darsan is,
why are you pining for Ramana darsan?
Since Ramana's real nature is my own real nature,
Ramana darsan is only knowing myself.
(David Godman)
*
Sri Ramana Charita Ahaval, Anguraha Ahaval and Sri Ramana Pada Maalai as a single booklet, was earlier printed by Sri Ramanasramam. This is not now available. I could get one old copy of this wonderful booklet, for Re.1.00 (!!!), a 1971 edition, during one of my visits to the Asramam.
*****
Dear Anon., (shiv)
Saint Manikkavachagar's period is a historical mystery. He is not among
63 Saints of Periya Puranam. There
are several views for this exclusion.
1. The Saint belongs to a much later period than Sekkizhar of Periya Puranam, i.e. 10th century.
I personally don't agree.
2. The other view is the saint belongs to a much earlier period, even more ancient than Jnana Sambandha, 7th century. Sri Maraimalai Adigal a great Saivite scholar in his book says that Manikkavachagar belongs to 3rd century A.D. Because, the 64 Holy Sports of Siva which took place in Madurai, is of much earlier period,
that is the time of Varaguna Pandyan, 3rd Century A.D. This TiruviLaiyadal, Holy Sports of Siva has been written by Saint Paranjyoti, who mentions at least
3 stories connected with Saint Manikkavachagar. So Manikkavachagar also belongs to 3rd Century A.D, the scholar says.
3. The third view is that Saint Manikkavachagar who sang about Siva
in Nayaki-Nayaka bhavam, that is lady love and her lover, is too holy to be included among 63 Saints. He takes his place along with Nataraja in the group idols of Nataraja and Sivakamasundari, His consort. He stands on to the right of Nataraja, while his wife Sivakamasundari is to His left.
4. Later poets like Arunagiri Natha mentions about Manikkavachagar while Sekkizhar does not.
5. In later years, in Siva Temples the saint is seen in the group of Great Four, along with Jnana Sambandha, Navukkarasar and Sundarmurti. This is called Nalvar, the Four.
5. One wonderful pageant told to me in Tiruvannamalai by one of the Odhuvars, (the singers in Siva temples) is like this:
Siva is the Master. He keeps all his relatives/friends/servants, in various rooms of His palace. His son Jnana Sambandha perhaps is in a room, too close to His own bedroom. Others like Sundaramurti and Navukkarasar occupy different rooms. But Manikkavachagar is His Nayaki, lover-wife. She must be only in His bedroom and not anywhere else! He occupies a place as important as Sivakamasundari!
Only Nataraja-Siva knows the truth.
****
R.Subramanian/Friends,
"I am of the view that there are as many types of devotion as there are
devotees".
There are many expressions of Devotion-The underlying Love or giving of oneself is the same.What is the Nature of this Love is what we are exploring by way of admiration vs adoration.
One may admire a person one may not like but the same is not true for adoration.
One may admire a person or thing and may be attached to it but that need not be adoration or Love.
Namaskar.
Sivaprakasam Pillai's visions:
Sri Pillai had many strange visions in the presence of Sri Bhagavan (and so came back without asking Him about his remarriage), some time in 1913. He says in Anugraha Ahaval, Lines 156-200:
I had a vision while sitting before you (On May 5, 1913). All around you I saw an incomparable effulgence like the splendor of many full moons. Your divine body shore with the light of the Sun, belittling the lustre of shining gold. Your beautiful eyes were shedding divine grace. In You was the majesty of the Lord of Lords, along with the power of giving bountifully. A little later I saw Your whole body smeared with white, bright, sacred ash. My stone-like heart melted and became like water. I saw these visions, but those near me did not see them. I did not ask You about them, nor did You speak about them. From that day I realized that You are my Lord, and all the dangers and difficulties I encountered disappeared by Your grace like mist disappearing before the Sun.
Again I had a vision of a golden child coming out of Your crown and this happened two, three times.
Again when I was chanting within my lips Om Subrahmanyom!, Your body emitted thick effulgence, like rays from a crystal!
*
In Talks No. 305, Sri Bhagavan remarked: Visions are better than no visions. They get interested in that way. They do not take to foreign ideas; when once they do it, they stick to it. So much for their merits.
Sri Bhagavan further referred to Sivapraksasam Pillai's vision. "Visions are not external. They appear only internally. If external, they must assert themselves without being a seer. In that case, what is the warranty for their existence? The Seer only."
****
R.subramanian/Friends,
"But Manikkavachagar is His Nayaki, lover-wife. She must be only in His bedroom and not anywhere else! He occupies a place as important as Sivakamasundari!"
Mathura Bhava or nAyaki-nAyaka Bhava has nothing whatsoever to do with Bedroom.
People who are infatuated with Sex are not qualified and cannot grasp this expression of Love.They are able to think of this as related to Sex and Bedroom.Nothing can be far from this.
This sort of a Bhava is best left aside by the sadhaka who is yet to free himself from the 'I am the Body' idea.Otherwise he will only be glorifying his own unwhetted sexual appetite only.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
The Love for God is not definitely love for sexual pleasures. Even in case of Gopikas, they wanted to merge with Krishna, which they told Uddhava much later in Srimad Bhagavatam. They never wanted to have sex with him.
During Rasalila, Krishna was only 10 years old.
In entire Srimad Bhagavatam, only the hunchback lady in Mathura, I think her name is Chandrika, wanted sex with Krishna.
So also with Manikkavachagar's case it was only love for the divine, and only that Odhuvar told me as a pageant as the reason for the saint not being with 63 Saints. Why not we take the bed-room as the inner chamber or Heart-Centre?
*****
Sri Bhagavan and Vaishnavism:
Talks No. 274:
The Muslim Professor asked how Vaishnavism can be reconciled to Advaitism.
Maharshi: The Vaishnavites call themselves Visistadvitins. This is also Advaita. Just as the individual body comprises the soul, the ego and the gross body, so also God comprises Paramatma, the world and the individuals.
Devotee: Does not bhakti imply duality?
Maharshi: Swa Swarupanasandhanam bhaktirityadheeyate (Reflection on one's own Self is called bhakti.) Bhakti and Self-Enquiry are one and the same. The Self of the Advaitins is the God or the bhaktas.
*
(Narada says in his Bhakti Sutras:
15. The characteristics of devotion are being stated because of different views, according to different exponents, in this regard.
16. According to Vyasa, bhakti means attraction to worship etc., (as prescribed by the scriptures).
17. According to Garga, bhakti is the attraction for stories of God's play as incarnations.
18. According to Sandilya, bhakti is devotion to God as one's Self, and renouncing everything prejudicial to the path of devotion.
19. But Narada feels that devotion is surrender of all activities to God and extreme anguish if He is forgotten.
20/21. They are various examples of such forms of devotion, as found in the lives of the gopis of Vraja.
22. Even there, there was no forgetfulness of the greatness of the object love.
23. Without this knowledge (of the greatness of God), the love will like that towards paramours.
(Narada says in this aphorism that such an allegation cannot stand at all. One cannot raise this objection towards the devotion of the gopis; one cannot say that they were not aware of the greatness of Sri Krishna, the sole object of their love,. If they had not been spiritually awakened, such a love would have merely been a sort of earthly love.....This is because, in that baser form of love, there is no idea of being happy in the happiness of the beloved...In Srimad Bhagavatam, Gopis sang in this manner,: "You are not an ordinary person. You are not merely the joy of the gopis. You are the Inner Controller of all beings. It is as the Self that You are controlling all beings. For the protection of the earth, the Creator invoked You and that is why You have been born in the dynasty of the Yadus. But really, You are that supreme Reality - the Supreme
Truth -- and so we consider You as the apple of our eye owing to our love.")
****
Dear Ravi,
Kindly see this verse from Sri
Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai of Sri Bhagavan: Verse 9:
enaiazhithu ippodhu enaik kalavaa
vidil
Idhuvo ANmai Arunachala?
Is it manliness, O Arunachala, if you fail now to embrace me and destroy my maidenhood?
This is a daring plea for union through self-destruction, a total surrender of the body, mind and soul. The maiden unashamedly offers up her body for violation, the Sadhaka lays bare his ego for sacrifice. It is a challenge to Purusha to overpower Prakriti to make her His own, irrevocably and finally, once and for ever.
The erotic imagery is purely symbolical and should not be taken literally. The destruction of the ego and the union of jiva with Siva are meant.
The keyword is ippodhu, NOW, THIS MOMENT.
***
R.Subramanaian,
"Is it manliness, O Arunachala, if you fail now to embrace me and destroy my maidenhood?"
Whose translation is this?There is no erotic symbolism at all in this wonderful verse if translated properly.
More later.
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian,
The verse should be translated as follows:
"Having called me,if thou do not unite with me,where is thine chivalry,Oh arunachala."
Where is the question 'violation','Embrace' etc?All our own baggage or wanting to foist our 'dramatics' our misplaced sense and sensibility-As Sri Ramakrishna used to say that a person who eats Garlic would belch Garlic!
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
That is from Prof. K. Swaminathan.
What Muruganar says in his Virutti Urai of AAMM:
If you do not destroy my maidenhood
and unite with me, is it all your
Pourusham, manliness? O Arunachala!
Muruganar adds:
The lady, with uncontrollable love, leaves even her modesty, and tells her lover, these words.
In the estoeric sense it is Jiva asking Purusha for merger, oneness. The ego (Jivabodham) should be destroyed by Purusha and Jiva should attain Sivabodham
****
R.Subramanian,
We have to read Muruganar's Tamil.I do not take Prof Swaminathan's English rendering as of any value.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
I am giving the Tamizh version of Muruganar's Urai, in anglicized form.
I am sure you can understand it.
Pozhippurai:
Naan pakkuvam adaintha ippozbhuthe
en (ahankarak) kannimaiyai aRave
azhitthu, (unnodu irandaRa) ennaik
kalavaavidil idhu thano Purushottamanana, unakku pouruzhamaaathu?
Virivurai:
Thalaivi, thannAR chaRRum adakkalaha tha padi than kaamam avvaLau kai kadanthu pona nilaymayil, than ponRa magalirku
aaruriyinum arumaiyana naaNathaiyum
kaivittu, ulahiyalukku ovvamalum, thalaivanai nokki veLipadaiyaahavum
ivvaRu kooRinAL.
Avarku atthaihaiya NANinum chalak kaRpu chiranthathu aahalin, thalaivi thaan oro vazhi avvaRu kooRalum amaivudaithAm enRu aRiha.
*
(Some times modesty-less chastity is considered greater, is it not?)
*
David, am I correct?
Thank you Subramanian Sir for the clarification on why Sri Manikkavachagar's life is not included in the Periapuranam.
Like you mentioned certain things
are bound to remain a mystery.
It would have been wonderful if one of the devotees like Sri Devaraja Mudaliar had asked Sri Ramana about this.
Regards,
shiv
R.Subramanian,
I get the drift of what Muruganar has said,and this has to be translated in a subtler sense,which I would attempt a little later.
Yet,I have to say that Muruganar is adding a lot of unnecessary baggage that is not there in this wonderful verse-That it is 'akshara maNa mAlai' perhaps may be the reason that he is adding all the extrapolations.
He is bringing in ideas of 'modesty','chastity' etc-that are simply not there in the verse.
More on this later.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Subramanian/Ravi:
it's not for nothing thAkur emphasised many a time the simplicity of imagining oneself as a child of the Mother as the safest form for the practice of 'bhakti'. i may know anything about madhura-bhAva but from thAkur's sayings in the kathAmrta, it does seem apparent that most of us wouldn't be able to utter, much less discuss, anything related to this supreme & subtle bhAva. the well-known adage of 'fools dare where angels fear to tread' is perfectly applicable in this context. one could be a helpless 'fool' but it's well within our choice not to be a 'hypocrite' :-)
R.Subramanian,
"This is a daring plea for union through self-destruction, a total surrender of the body, mind and soul. The maiden unashamedly offers up her body for violation, the Sadhaka lays bare his ego for sacrifice. It is a challenge to Purusha to overpower Prakriti to make her His own, irrevocably and finally, once and for ever.
The erotic imagery is purely symbolical and should not be taken literally."
This is what you had posted.Now let us see if this 'Erotic' nature is reflected in that exposition of Muruganar-whether in brief or in its exapanded versions.(padavurai and pozhipurai).
We need to understand the setting-It is the Marital Garland of letters where the soul as a Virgin is looking forward to being united in a wedlock with the purusha-Arunachala.
Now it is customary for the purusha to take the lead and not the maiden -It is the Man who seeks the hand of the maid to unite in wedlock.
Now all that Muruganar says is that on account of Intense Love,in this case the Maid is taking the initiative and setting aside her coyness,and unmindful of the world(and what it may say-Ravi)is asking the purusha to unite with her in wedlock and put an end to her virgin status,once and for all.For once she is united in wedlock,she is no longer a virgin!
Muruganar further points out that in as much as the Maiden is faithful to her Lord who is dearer than her life,it does not matter if she sheds her coyness in asking him to unite with her.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So,dear friend this is all that Muruganar had said.
Now all that erotic imagery are our own misreading of what has been said by Muruganar.
I did not take a second look at prof Swaminathan's translation.Please see if that conveys this sense.
Namaskar.
Hi Shiv, folks,
“Why it that ? Is it because Sri Manikkavachagar lived after the Periapuranam was written ? So, strictly speaking, we should say 64 Nayanmars instead of 63, is it not ?”
Well, folks here would know, I guess, that Sekkizhar did not get the 63 Nyanmar names of his own of course. The first compilation of the 63 names was done by none other than the last of the “Muvars”, Sri Sundarar himself. In the 8th C. Sri Sundarar sang the magnificent “Tiruttondar-Tokai” or “Assembly of the Sacred Slaves” at the big temple in Tiruvarur. Herein it seems that the 63 names of Saints (including himself) were mentioned in the order in which he happened to recollect them, not chronological, nor alphabetical. Sri Sundarar also stated categorically that he sang the names at the behest of Lord Siva Himself, and so the list became a sanctified one. Sri Nambi Andar Nambi in the 10th C. expanded the descriptions and in the 11th C. Sekkizhar only formalized the same in Periya Puranam. The sequence set by Sri Sundarar has never been altered by anyone as the list and the ordering of names is considered holy in themselves, and of course, none had the courage to take on Sri Sundarar (and Lord Siva Himself !). And so, even now, the same sequence is meticulously followed in all temples for the placement of the little bronze or stone images of the (63) Nyanmars.
And it is the absence of Sri Manikkavachakar’s name from this great list formulated by Sri Sundarar that has led scholars to believe that Sri Manikkavachakar must have lived after Sri Sundarar, probably in the 9th C. In any event, Sekkizhar himself seems to have lived after Sri Manikkavachakar, but was probably beholden to follow Sri Sundarar’s list faithfully.
Otherwise too, every ancient reference remains for Nyanmars as being 63. Numerous copper plate inscriptions made by great Chola kings refer to the grants made for the worship of 63 Nyanmars only. And the ancient festival “Aravattu-Muvar-Ula” celebrated even now in temples, is essentially the “Festival of the 63 Revered Ones”.
So how did Sri Manikkavachakar come to be included in the Nyanmars? Scholars say that initially the “Muvar” or the “Three Revered Ones” came to be worshipped separately as a group in small shrines in temples. Then at some stage, the “Muvar” were expanded into the “Nalvar” (“The Four Revered Ones”) as Sri Manikkavachakar was too important to be left out. And so, next, the Nyanmar list too necessarily came to be considered as, having “63 + 1” names.
--------------------------
Well, leaving the scholarly controversies aside, just wanted to mention the small structure at Thiruvathavoor, the birthplace of Sri Manikkavachakar. This little set of 2 – 3 rooms, a small temple really, marks the actual site of his birth. When I visited this place many many years ago, it was a forlorn lonely structure in the middle of a field. It took a lot of searching to find but was well worth the trouble as it remains one of the most inspiring little temples that I have ever been to. The half-hour I spent therein left me with a feeling of having been blessed by the Great Saint for weeks thereafter, and even now I sense the thrill of having been in his august presence.
Best wishes
R.Subramanian,
"Some times modesty-less chastity is considered greater, is it not?"
You decide what is greater and what is lesser.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi/Others:
["...Muruganar further points out that in as much as the Maiden is faithful to her Lord who is dearer than her life,it does not matter if she sheds her coyness in asking him to unite with her..."]
ravi, for a change, i can't disagree :-))) like all bhagavAn's compositions, aksharamaNamAlai is very beautiful; just that i find 'aruNAchala-pathigam' (the decad) to be simply unmatched for its surpassing beauty in expressing the bhakti-bhAva... if an agnostic like me finds it hard to restrain from succumbing to an involuntary act of lachrymation :-), imagine what it can do to you all 'bhaktAs'!! it's worth murmuring those exquisite lines again & again & again... what bhagavAn had said there for aruNAchala "தலைவநின் தன்மை என்னஎன் பார்க்குத் தலைகுனி சிலையென வைத்தாய் (thalaivanin thanmai enna enbArkku thalaiguni silai yena vaitthAy)" is the same what holds for the pathigam & the ashTakam :-)))
R.subramanian,
This couplet from TirukkuRaL is wrongly categorised under 'Friendship' and Sage TGN who has in his talks on this wonderful work sheds wonderful insight, used to say-Free the couplets from the Regimen of 'Chapterization'(Ten couplets in each chapter!God knows why?).Only then we will be in a position to get to the true meaning and sense of these couplets.
Here is the Couplet:
puNarchi pazhaguthal veNdA;unaRchidhAn naTpAm kizhamai tharum.
"Do not Practise Sex;It is the Feeling(Love)that Ripens the relationship.".
Where there is RAma there cannot be kAma.
Namaskar.
s,
""தலைவநின் தன்மை என்னஎன் பார்க்குத் தலைகுனி சிலையென வைத்தாய் (thalaivanin thanmai enna enbArkku thalaiguni silai yena vaitthAy)"
"Lord,Thou made (me) statue like with head bowed before those who asked what thy nature is"
Our friend subramanian has his 'favourite' Illustration here!We may well leave that alone:)
coming to your occasional acts of lachrymation,shall courier generous dose of Glycerine if need be!Do let me know if the Arunachala Stuti panchakam falls deficient in any manner to facilitate this:)
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi:
oh no, subramanian's "favourite" illustration hadn't crossed my mind then :-))) i'd said that line only to convey how incapable one could be in trying to describe the beauty of the "pathigam" (or "ashTakam")...
on the 'lachrymation' front, regardless of what thAkur says in his inimitable way :-), i loathe slipping into it, though i fall right through it at an unguarded hour! in any case, one with little to nil 'faith' crying for 'god' is pretty incongruous :-) perhaps, i'm too vain to let tears fall on my volition (some imagined puffed up 'heroic' type, i suppose!) :-) blessed are those whose heart is wrung like a wet towel for 'you-know-who' but i will win my way to bliss (no begging business)... hahahaha
arvind,
Nice informative post on 'van Thondar' sundaramurthy,the formidable devotee-who ordered his friend Lord siva to do his bidding!Looks like the lord thought it safe to toe the line conforming to the adage-'If you cannot beat them ,join them'.Did he have a choice?
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian/s/Friends,
"Now it is customary for the purusha to take the lead and not the maiden -It is the Man who seeks the hand of the maid to unite in wedlock."
In this wonderful excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,the Master puts this in his inimitable fashion:
In the beginning God
becomes the magnet, and the devotee the needle. But in the end the devotee himself
becomes the magnet, and God the needle; that is to say, God becomes small to His
devotee.".
Namaskar.
Dear all,
Why Sri Bhagavan says that when someone asked 'What is the nature of your lover?' you made me hang my head without replying. Why? Muruganar says: 1. Normally wives or lovers would not mention their husband's / lover's names as an act of modesty, and stand as a sculpture, (in the olden days, of course!). 2. Secondly, the Lord, or the Self (Arunachala is Atma), is indescribable. How to describe the Self (i.e. experience of Self) in words. Even Vedas have come back without success.
Appar says: Munnam avan than nAmam
kettAL, murti avan irukkum Aroor kettaL, pinnar avanukke picchi AnAL.... She first asked His name and then His town,...thereafter she became a madcap, (thinking ever about Him.)
There is no need to 'see' Him. His mere name and town would do. There are such great love stories, in literature. In Vijay T.V. "Pirivom,
Sandhippom," gives a glimpse of such love. For a change, it is a good Tamizh serial.
Subramanian. R
Sri Arunachala Padigam, Verse 5:
Saint Manikkavachagar excels in a different way.
Tiru TheLLeNam, Verse 11, Tiruvachakam:
Kayal mANdu kaNNi than pangan enai
kalanthu ANdalume,
Ayal mAndu, aruvinai chuRRamum
MANdu, avaniyin mel
Mayal MANdu maRRuLLa vachakamum
MAndu ennudaiya
Seyal MANada va pAdith TheLLeNam\
kottAmO.
He who is part of the lady with fish like eyes, has merged with me and ruled over me. Thereafter, my neighbors are dead, my relatives are dead; my desire for the world is dead, my words are dead, my deeds are dead. Let us sing this miracle and play TheLLeNam!
In Verse 18 of the same TheLLeNam, the saint says:
VAn kettu mAruthamum mAinthu azhal
neer maN kedinum
ThAn kettalinRich chalippaRiyath
thanmaiyanukku
Oon kettu yuir kettu unarvu ketten
uLLamum poi
NAn ketta vaapadith TheLLeNam
kottAmo!
Even if the space gets defunct, the lands get defunct, fire, water and earth get defunct, He is ever eternal, without getting bored (!).
Let us play TheLLenam, singing our
state where the body gets defunct, pranas get defunct, feelings get dumb, the mind/ego get lost, the "I" get defunct.
Subramanian. R
The correct version of Appar's Tevaram (in Tiruvarur Tiru ThAnadaham,) is as under: (my 6.26 am post has not given it correctly).
Munnam avanudaiya nAmam kettAL
Murthi avan irukkum vaNNam kettAL
Pinnai avanudaiya Aroor kettAL
Perthum avanukke picchi AnAL
Annaiyaiyum athanaiyum anRe neetthAL
AhanRaL akalitathAr Acharathai
Thannai maRanthAL than nAmam kettAL
ThalaipattAL nangai thalaivan
thALe.
Subramanian. R
R.Subramanian,
"In Vijay T.V. "Pirivom,
Sandhippom," gives a glimpse of such love. For a change, it is a good Tamizh serial"
Sage TGN narrated an amusing incident.In those days(in the early 90s or so)he was invited to Coimbatore for a Talk and the Organizers had put him in a Hotel.The moment he occupied that room,the waiter switched on the TV and tuned to some channel.Master told him that it was not needed and that he might as well switch it off.The waiter was surprised and told him-'Sir,when guests check in,this is the first thing they ask me to check even ahead of essentials like a Jug of Water,etc.Usually the TV is on for almost 24 hours and I switch it off once they check out.How is it that you are different,I wonder?'
TGN told him that the world itself is a Big TV and the trouble that it causes is more than enough('athu paduthura pAdu pOdhum')!Why add another small TV to an already existing one!!!
A sadhaka would do well to stay away from watching serials -Good or Bad.That time may usefully be spent on sAdhana.Any way,for those who cannot resist such light entertainment(very thin line between Light and Heavy!)they need to intensify the sadhana and hope that they are weaned away from such source of entertainment.
I recall someone posting this-'Part time sadhakas cannot attain Self Realization'.
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER: "I see that all are under the control of woman. One day I went to Captain's
house. From there I was to go to Ram's house. So I said to Captain, 'Please give me my
carriage hire.' He asked his wife about it. She too held back and said: 'What's the matter?
What's the matter?' At last Captain said, 'Ram will take care of it.' You see, the Gita, the
Bhagavata, and the Vedanta all bow before a woman! (All laugh.)
"A man leaves his money, his property, and everything in the hands of his wife. But he says
with affected simplicity, 'I have such a nature that I cannot keep even two rupees with me.'
"A man went to an office in search of a job. There were many vacancies, but the manager
did not grant his request. A friend said to the applicant, 'Appeal to Golapi, and you will get
the job.' Golapi was the manager's mistress.
"Men do not realize how far they are dragged down by women. Once I went to the Fort in a
carriage, feeling all the while that I was going along a level road. At last I found that I had
gone four storeys down. It was a sloping road.
"A man possessed by a ghost does not know he is under the ghost's control. He thinks he is
quite normal."
Namaskar.
Dear hema,
I appreciate your intention towards
full time Sadhana. I am a little immature. What to do?
Incidentally Sri Bhagavan also watched some films in the Asramam. Devotees also enjoyed those along with Him. I think this was in early 1940s, when Haridas and other movies had come.
Polimana ezhucchi magizhvuRRonaahip
Polimanap pathaippu veRuppuRRon
Ahip
Polimuyalvam thodakkm uRRonaahip
PuraiyilanA ulahil viLaiyadu
veera,
Mal enum pal kattu vidupatton Ahi
Mannu samanAhi ella nilaimaik
kaNNum
VelaihaL vedathiyaiva veLiyiR
seithu
VeNdiyavARu ulahil viLaiyAdu veera.
- Ulladu Narpadu, Anubandham,
Verse 27.
Subramanian. R
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: Verse 28:
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, Verse
1480:
Vinjunk karuvaaya Venkatavan
melladiyiR
Thunjik kidavAthath thollon perum
pugazhai
Vanjach cherukkAn mayanRuraikka
muRpatta
Thanjach chirumiyarkaaL chalach
chaturarathu
Nenjum theriyA nilaimaiyAn mei
uruvaik
Kinjilum kaNdEro kettiRo valleere
PinjiR pazhuthitta pedhaiyeer
pesAdhe
AnjiyadikkaN adangElor
embAvAi.
Prof. K. Swaminathn:
Instead of lying prone beneath
The Feet of Venkata of noble birth,
You, stupid girls, who have
presumed
In pride to praise in words the
glory
Of the eternal Being, don't be too
Clever! Ignorant, unaware
Of your own Self, how could you see
Or hear or know the smallest
something
Of His true Being? Precocious
fools!
In awe lie low beneath His Feet!
*
Muruganaz says, what is the use of trying in pride, to praise His glory, the Eternal Being? How can you hear or know about His true Being, the smallest something?
It is better to lie at His Feet than waste your lungs, because no words can truly describe Him.
Saint Manikkavachagar says in Verse 10 of Tiruvembavai:
His flowers like feet are even beyond the seven nether worlds, indescribable by all words. His flower decked head is the final purport all things in the world and beyond...Even if the devas and humans join together and try to praise Him, it cannot be done..
The saint says in Verse 5 of Tirupalli Ezhuchi:
We know only to sing His glories and dance. What else can we do?
We have not seen anyone who has really seen you, you are beyond all comprehension....
.........
.........
GeethangaL pAduthal Aduthal
allAl
KettaRiyom unaik kaNadaRivArai
.......
Chintainaikkum ariyAi!.....
****
The Quest: Lucia Osborne:
Part X - Self Realization and the
Guru:
continues....
"If Reality did not exist, could there by any knowledge of existence? Free from all thoughts, Reality abides in the Heart, the Source of all thought. It is therefore called the Heart. How
then is one to contemplate It? To be as It is in the Heart (to be It)
is Its contemplation."
(Ulladu Narpadu, Benedictory Verse 1:)
"To know the Self is to be the Self. When one's true nature is known, then there is Being without beginning and end; it is unbroken Awareness Bliss."
(Upadesa Undiyar, Verse 26.)
The German mystic and theologian Meister Eckhart said: "In the case of God being and knowing are identical."
The Dutch mystic Ruysbroek wrote:
"To know It we must be It beyond the mind and above our created being; in that eternal Point where all our lines begin and end, that Point where they lose their name and all distinction and become one with the Point Itself."
St.John of the Cross speaks of the dark night of the soul which sets the house of flesh at rest and is that of the Spirit where all forms of vision and intelligence are absent or in emptiness. He teaches that the light of God shines in an emptiness where there is no subject to receive it. "To enter the way is to leave the way for the way itself is emptiness."
Zen enlightenment according to Thomas Merton is a full alert super conscious act of being which transcends time and space. It is a direct revelation of one's original nature. And this implies the absence of all conceptual thoughts or media so that one arrives at Mind by having no mind (wu h'shin;
wu = without; h'sin = mind, heart.
That is, stilling it), in fact by being Mind instead of having it. True identity is found not in separation from all that is but in oneness with all that is.
For Hui Neng all life was Zen. He apprehends the unity of Being in a simple direct intuition. It is not found by turning away from life to become absorbed in meditation. "Zen is the very awareness of life living itself in us." Sri Bhagavan is not known to have encouraged young people to renounce the world but to practice sadhana while performing the duties of life which fell to their lot. This cannot be repeated too often.
contd.,
The Quest: Lucia Osborne:
Part X - Self Realization and the
Guru:
continues...
Plotinus realized that "when intellectual denudation is achieved, the One is not a being, but the source of being appears to the soul and they are no longer two but one and the soul is no longer identified with the body or mind but knows."
Inspired poets like Shakespeare and William Blake among others say that the visible is not the Reality at all. By merging the observer with the observed one arrives at true insight because it is not conditioned by fallible instruments (sense perceptions, intellect etc.,).
In Viveka Chudamani, Sri Sankara writes that those who have attained Samadhi by merging the sense organs, the mind, the ego from which the external universe springs in the pure consciousness of Brahman -- they alone are from the bonds and snares.
Samkhya admits of a yogic perception which is a direct intuitive knowledge. Pratyahara
means checking the outgoing mind and gaining detachment from sense objects. He who succeeds in this frees himself from all limitations and conditioning.
"The tortoise can draw in its legs, the Seer can draw in his senses."
The Sufi saint of the 9th century, Abu Yazid al-Bistani said: "...In the presence of Unity there is neither command nor prohibition. All this talk and turmoil and noise
and movement is outside of the veil. Within the veil is silence and calm and rest.
"Do you hear how there comes a voice from the brooks of running water? But when they reach the sea they are quiet and the sea is neither augmented by their incoming nor diminished by their outgoing."
In the Jnaneswari, Krishna instructed Arjuna: "Whatever leads to one's welfare is disagreeable to the senses. Constant practice is therefore required to subdue these senses. Removed from the disturbing influence of the senses the mind automatically starts merging in the Self resulting in supreme bliss beyond which there is nothing and which is not attainable by the senses. No worry or sorrow ever as great as Mount Meru can oppose it any more. After such an experience the whole world becomes a temple of happiness...."
contd.,
One of my favourite stories are about Natesa Iyer. He left his wife and daughter and went to work in the kitchen for the ashram. The women in the kitchen gave him a hard time. He laughed when he related that he ran away from one bossy woman and ended up working under five.
He got tired of the treatment in the kitchen and left the ashram without telling anyone. He reached Villupuram and said a prayer to Bhagavan. He felt Ramana was standing in front of him. "How did you get here?" asked Iyer in amazement. Bhagavan smiled and replied. "How far have you gone away from me" Iyer dissolved in tears.
The figure of Bhagavan started walking towards Tiruvannamalai. Iyer had no hesitation in following him.
When he finally reached the ashram and the hall he prostrated. Bhagavan repeated the words "How far have you gone away from me"
Iyer broke down and cried and went back to work in the kitchen.
The incident initiated a process of surrender and an understanding that Bhagavan is not the body.
There are other wonderful stories about Natesa Iyer and other ashram inmates which one never tires reading about.
Raviji,
I believe the term for visiting different masters, as coined by a friend, is 'guru shopping'. :) I disagree with this adage.
Six months ago, when we were attending a satsang, a question was posed to my friend's teacher. The questioner asked if it was OK to visit many teachers, and the guru replied that it was, because the same truth is expounded by them.
best,
Dear m.,
Different gurus do NOT tell the same truth. That is the truth. One should discern and choose one guru and stick to Him. If you see other gurus, you do namaskarams to them, no harm. But choose one and stick to Him.
Of course, change of gurus takes place according to one predispositions. Balarama Reddy came to Sri Bhagavan from Sri Aurobindo. Kapali Sastri's guru was
Sri Aurobindo but he had great respect for Sri Bhagavan. BVN went to Shirdi Sai Baba from Sri Bhagavan. It happens according to one's prarabdha.
****
Dear m,
One may ask: did not Avadhuta have
24 gurus? But they are not gurus in the real sense, but in the sense that each one (python, vulture, Pingala, the courtesan) made him aware of one aspect each, of sadhana. Python seemed to tell him: do not go for food and waste your sadhana time; eat what comes to you, as I eat. Vulture seemed to tell him: I suffered because of one piece flesh that I held on by beak. When I dropped it, the other birds stopped chasing it. It only means that you do not possess anything which is desired by others. Non possession gives you relief. Pingala seemed to tell him: I as a courtesan, went for men for enjoyment and earning money. When no one came one evening, I became more peaceful, with my Atma Ramanan within my heart. He is ever near me, he gives me pleasure, I have become equal to Rama (Lakshmi). Santham sameepa, ratipradham...says Srimad Bhagavatam.
All were only teachers giving out one aspect of truth. The real Truth came to Avaduta from within. He is Atma Ramam or Atma Ramanam, He is the Sadguru, who pulled him from within as AruL. (Grace)
****
m,
"I believe the term for visiting different masters, as coined by a friend, is 'guru shopping'. :) I disagree with this adage."
I agree with you.
Whether Guru can be chosen?It is only when we choose the Guru that it can be called 'Guru Shopping' and may lead to Guru Hopping as well.
Fact is that Guru cannot be chosen.Guru should find one.Then one will see that all Masters are manifestations of God only.
I agree with your other friend's Guru.It is certainly ok to visit Different Masters.Yet,it is quite likely that the teachings may seemingly differ.This makes it a little tricky,on account of lack of maturity,one may get sidetracked.It is very vital to be deeply dive into and Practise Sadhana.This is like digging deep to find water.Now instead of digging deep at a particular place,one may change places and dig in ten places-and nowhere does one dig deep.
It is on account of this,that it is advocated to stick to 'one' guru-meaning 'One Teaching'.This is the rationale behind this recommendation-it has nothing to do with our friend R.Subramanian's pet idea of 'chastity'.All Masters are manifestations of God only.
As one deepens the sAdhana,one will find that all paths converge-all lead Godwards,towards peace and Love.One will then be in a position to appreciate that all teachings are the same-only packaged differently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna where the Master Reprimands Viswanath Upadhyaya.Sri Ramakrishna used to call him 'Captain'.He was a high officer of the King of
Nepal and had received the title of Colonel in recognition of his merit. A scholar of the
Gita, the Bhagavata, and the Vedanta philosophy, he daily performed the worship of his
Chosen Deity with great devotion. "I have read the Vedas and the other scriptures", he said.
"I have also met a good many monks and devotees in different places. But it is in Sri
Ramakrishna's presence that my spiritual yearnings have been fulfilled. To me he seems to
be the embodiment of the truths of the scriptures.".
Here is the excerpt:
Master:Water is water whether it is calm or full of waves and bubbles. The
Absolute alone is the Primordial Energy, which creates, preserves, and destroys. Thus it is
the same 'Captain', whether he remains inactive or performs his worship or pays a visit to
the Governor General. Only we designate him by different names at different times."
CAPTAIN: "Yes, sir, that is so."
MASTER: "I said those words to Keshab Sen."
CAPTAIN: "Keshab is not an orthodox Hindu. He adopts manners and customs according
to his own whim. He is a well-to-do gentleman and not a holy man."
MASTER (to the other devotees): "Captain forbids me to go to see Keshab."
CAPTAIN: "But, sir, you act as you will. What can I do?"
MASTER (sharply): "Why shouldn't I go to see Keshab? You feel at ease when you go to
the Governor General's house, and for money at that. Keshab thinks of God and chants His
name. Isn't it you who are always saying that God Himself has become the universe and all
its living beings? Doesn't God dwell in Keshab also?"
With these words the Master left the room abruptly and went to the northeast verandah.
Captain and the other devotees remained, waiting for his return."
The question that the Master asks 'captain' is applicable to all these 'half baked' seekers who talk big about not visiting 'other' Masters but who themselves would not mind being slaves to many 'Bosses' in the office.
It is certainly beneficial to seek the company of Great ones.
Namaskar.
(Sri Ramana) Tiruvembavai: Verse 29:
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, Verse 1481:
NAmaneer ittathoru nalla kazhi
maRRum oru
NAmaneer vAnugahthu naRRuLaiyiR
kotthArpol
EmamorAkkAr iruLomayeka paranth
ThAmaMA ninsorupa sannidhikke
serthavaruL
AmadhanaiyanRi nayapAthal \
viyappAdhal \
MAmthura Venkatava mAtteNan
mannuyirkuch
Chemanchei poRRoL chezhunkamam
onRozhithan
KamangaLellam kadiyelor
Embavaai.
Prof. K. Swaminathan:
As if a peg afloat in one
Ocean should reach and enter the
hole
Of a yoke afloat in the expanse
Of yet some other great ocean,
So indeed your grace rushed in
And lifted us straight to your own
state
Transcendent. This grace alone
We cherish and ever marvel at.
O sweet and mighty Venkata,
Your golden Feet alone we love,
May our longings vanish.
May we maidens bathe and rejoice.
Muruganar says that the Guru's grace rushed to them like a peg afloat in one ocean reach the stick
in another ocean. That is the power of the Grace which we cherish and
wonder. Muruganar says that their longings for other things should vanish and they should long only for His golden feet. The Feet, Padam is the only that is worth pursuing and all efforts should only be for that. Muruganar describes the glory of Padam in his Padamalai in great detail.
Andal says in Tiruppavai, Verse 29:
ERRaikkum Ezhezh piRavikkum un
thannOdu
URRAme Avom; unakke nAm ALseivom
MaRRai nam kAmangaL mARRelor
Embaavai.
Not only in this birth, but in the seven X seven births that are to come, let us only be with you and You only should rule over us. Let all our other desires be jettisoned, O Govinda!
This single longing or desire, is what I would refer as 'chastity' (my pet theory, Ravi) towards God or Guru, which is also sometimes loosely and unfortunately referred to 'mortal husbands' in this world.
Akka Mahadevi says: "I shall elope
with Siva, giving a slip to my husband, let these mortal husbands thrown to the kitchen fire!"
Saiva Sidhantis call this 'SaRRum piRa deivam thozhAk kaRpu'. Not
praying to any other god, even a bit, except Siva.
*
Dhanur month, as per solar calendar, ends today with only 29 days. Muruganar has rendered
33 verses in his Tiruvembavai.
The remaining four verses, I shall
try to cover later.
***
Ramaswami Pillai (1895-1995) Liberation Day - 14.01.2012:
Ramaswami Pillai was a long time
associate of Sri Bhagavan.
"I first saw Sri Bhagavan when I was studying in school. Reclining on the couch, He looked indescribably majestic. Since then He has been God to me in human form. I did not ask for anything. He turned on me that look of heart-melting grace that He so often bestows on newcomers. I felt filled to the brim just by seeing Him.
"Miracles did take place in the presence of Sri Bhagavan. Strangely
people like me, very close to Sri Bhagavan, never cared to notice anything happening, as we were all so thoroughly absorbed in Him, in His Presence! I am able to recollect a 'miracle' that took place. a person from a town near Tiruvannamalai lost his eye owing to smallpox or severe fever. He was advised that if he went to Sri Ramanasramam, Sri Ramana Maharshi would give him back his eyesight. He arrived at the Asramam and inquiring his way, he reached Sri Bhagavan's Hall.
"A few days earlier, two young doctors had arrived for darshan of Sri Bhagavan. They were totally captivated by Him. They were to take leave of Sri Bhagavan before going back to Madras. They came to the Hall, prostrated and went up to their car, when they had an urge to have one more glimpse of Sri Bhagavan. Meanwhile, the blind man had entered the Hall and was praying to Bhagavan that his eyesight be somehow restored by His grace. Sri Bhagavan was listening to everything, but kept absolutely silent. The doctors who witnessed this, voluntarily took the blind man in their car to Madras and treated him.
"After some months, I saw a man prostrating to Sri Bhagavan, with deep and sincere gratitude for having restored his eyesight. Sri Bhagavan listened to him unmoved, as if He had nothing to do with it. This was the natural way He performed miracles.
contd.,
R.subramanian,
"I would refer as 'chastity' (my pet theory, Ravi) towards God or Guru, which is also sometimes loosely and unfortunately referred to 'mortal husbands' in this world."
I find that you are trying to give this 'kaRpu' the Broadest definition NOW.Earlier you were using it in the context of the disciple not going to even see another 'Master' or 'Yogi' or whatever-as I recall your posting of Muruganar getting out of the car when Swami Siddheswarananda had planned to visit some 'Swami'in the vicinity.
kaRpu is something that is 'Learned' or 'Trained' -and is just the discipline of the mind.This is just a fence that is a necessity as long as the sapling of a plant is young and runs the risk of being eaten away by any passing animal like a goat or a cow.Once the plant grows into a tree,it requires no such 'Discipline'.The Very attraction and pull exercised by God provides this protection.No need to divide and draw artificial boundaries.
Namaskar.
Sri Ramaswami Pillai Liberation Day:
14.01.2012:
Ramaswami Pillai continues....
"The other 'miracle' occurred when Sri Bhagavan was staying at the Skandasramam. In those days, He was taking only one meal a day. In the evening a disciple got rice and coconut as bhiksha. (Ramanatha Brahmachari?). Sri Bhagavan told us to make gruel by grinding the rice and coconut and add sugar to it. But there was no sugar in the Asramam. Even salt, which Sri Bhagavan suggested as an alternative was not to be found.
"At about 9 pm., there was a knock at the Asramam's door, which was opened by me. To our great surprise, we saw two young men, who had braved through the drizzling rain and darkness, with a packet of sugar candy and a bunch of plantains. Sri Bhagavan jokingly said, "Aye! Sugar candy has come with bananas to supplement." The sugar candy was powdered and duly mixed with the gruel.
"Sri Bhagavan asked the visitors how it was that they had to come at that time. One of them replied: Bhagavan! it was my good fortune to have read three articles by Mr. Humphreys, published in the International Psychic Gazette. Ever since, it has been my greatest ambition to see Bhagavan and have His darshan. Somehow, it is only today that we came for an excursion here and going back tomorrow morning. Not willing to lose this God-sent opportunity, we came here not minding rain or darkness. We shall never forget this most memorable meeting."
continued....
R.subramanian,
"I would refer as 'chastity' (my pet theory, Ravi) towards God or Guru, which is also sometimes loosely and unfortunately referred to 'mortal husbands' in this world."
I find you are veering to the other extreme!'kaRpu' is advised for the couple so that they learn to appreciate the Divinity in each other and reinforce this aspect.It was not meant to conform to the 'Mortal' or 'Materialistic' aspect.It is 'kaRpu'-that which is 'Taught' or 'Disciplined' because they were total strangers before they are united in wedlock,and have to 'learn' this aspect and Practise it -in their thoughts,words and actions.In reverently approaching each other they help each other overcome the 'mortal' aspects and establish themselves and recognize their unity in the spiritual Dimension.Outwardly they continue the Roles assumed as Husband and wife as Grihastas or vanaprasthas or whatever.
I find that your present post misses this dimension totally.If it is only the 'Mortal' aspect that is meant by 'Chastity' in ordinary parlance then how does it even get considered as a powerful Symbol or analogy -recounting the eternal relationship of jiva and paramAtma.
Namaskar.
Ramaswami Pillai Liberation Day -
12.01.2012:
Sri S.S. Cohen came to have darshan of Sri Bhagavan on 03.02.1936. He was led to a small dining room, at the door of which he was asked to remove his shoes. As he was trying to unlace them, his fell on pleasant looking middle aged man inside the room, wearing nothing but a kaupina, with eyes as cool as moonbeams, sitting on the floor before leaf plate nearly emptied, and beckoning him with the gentlest of nods and the sweetest smile imaginable.
He was Maharshi Himself. His mind which was already in a state of haze, grew more confused in his haste to enter. But the shoe lace resisted. So he tugged at and broke it. Just then his guide appeared again and said: 'If you have any fruits to offer, bring them now.
Cohen replied: 'They are in my suitcase.' He plunged his hands into his pockets for the keys. But the keys had gone. He had dropped them in the train or the station, he did not know where, in his hurry to race to the Asramam. He told this to that gentleman and immediately forgot all about it and then entered the room.
......
......
Cohen continues....
"I was alone in the Hall with Him. Joy and peace suffused my being - never before, had I such a delightful feeling of purity and well being at the mere proximity of a man... When after a while I became aware of my environment, I saw Him at me with large penetrating eyes, wreathed in smiles rendered divinely soothing by their child like innocence. All of a sudden I felt something fall in my lap and heard the jingling of keys -- my keys! I looked up at the Maharshi extremely puzzled. The man - Sri Ramaswami Pillai - who had dropped them through the door behind me came in and explained that he had gone to the railway station on a bicycle and found the station master waiting for him. It appears that during the few minutes that the train had stopped at the station, a passenger had providentially entered the same compartment I had vacated, and, seeing the keys on the seat, he picked up, and wonder of wonders! ran up to the station master and handed them over to them. The later by an unusual flash of intuition surmised that the keys belonged to an Asramam visitor, whom he might have seen detrain in the morning, and awaited a claim for them.
(He is often referred to as Cycle Ramaswami Pillai. I think, his Samadhi is along with those of Muruganar, Kunju Swami and Viswantha Swami, behind the samadhi of Cow Lakshmi, on a higher ground)
*
"It was a series of miracles which occurred on my behalf in the short space of barely ninety minutes of which I was blissfully ignorant, absorbed as I was in the entrancing personality of this magnificent human magnet - Sri Ramana Bhagavan.
"It is needeless to say that from that day, Sri Ramanasramam became my permanent home."
(Guru Ramana - S.S. Cohen)
****
Ramaswami Pillai Liberation Day -
14.01.2012:
David Godman writes about Ramaswami Pillai (Echammal and Mudaliar Patti, Part 2 of the Power of the Presence), stating he was the source of some information, about Mudaliar Patti's devotion. Ramaswami Pillai told him in 1982: "Many of us treated Bhagavan badly. We didn't have the respect and devotion that we knew were due to Him. It was people such as Mudaliar Patti who showed us what real devotion was like. Hardly anyone remembers her nowadays. You won't find her mentioned in many books, but in my opinion, she was one of Bhagavan's greatest devotees."
*
Again in Part 1, of the same book, while writing about Rangan, he writes about a small anecdote about Ramaswami Pillai.
"Bhagavan could turn the most mundane event into an opportunity for spiritual instruction. Once, for example, Ramaswami Pillai was searching for a key he had lost. After sometime, he came to the Hall and told Bhagavan about the missing key. Bhagavan said to him, "The key is where it always was. It is not lost. Only your memory is lost. Atman (the Self) is always everywhere, but due to ajnana, we spend our time searching for it."
****
Sri Bhagavan about Atma Vidya
Vilasa:
Talks No. 372:
Devotee: Horripilation, sobbing voice, joyful tears, etc., are mentioned in Atma Vidya Vilasa and other works. Are these found in Samadhi, or before, or after?
Maharshi: All these are the symptoms of exceedingly subtle modes of mind (vrittis). Without duality, they cannot remain. Samadhi is Perfect Peace, where these cannot find place. After emerging from Samadhi, the remembrance of the state gives rise to these symptoms. In bhakti marga, these are precursors to Samadhi.
Devotee: Are they not so in the path of Jnana?
Maharshi: May be. There is no definiteness about it. It depends on the nature of the individual. Individuality entirely lost, these cannot find a place. Even the slightest trace of it being present, these symptoms become manifest.
Manikkavachagar and other saints have spoken of these symptoms. They say tears rush forth involuntarily and irrepressibly. Though aware of tears they are unable to express them. I had the same experience when I was staying in Virupaksha Cave.
****
Friends,
How does a God Realised Master deal with the ordinary affairs of the world is a matter of Perennial interest.In the Bhagavad gita,Arjuna asks Bhagavan Sri Krishna in Chapter 2,"What are the symptoms of one whose consciousness is thus merged in Transcendence? How does he speak, and what is his language? How does he sit, and how does he walk?".
In the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna we find interesting incidents related to Sri Ramakrishna visiting the Circus,Watching the Play of Prahalada,Visiting the houses of Vidayasagar(Philanthropist and Educationist),Nandalal Bose(Famous Painter),Bankim Chandra Chatterji(Novelist and writer of the Famous Bande mAtaram)-and this provides a fascinating and detailed account of such encounters.The unpretentious Master often went uninvited after seeking appointment with these people!
How does the Master appreciate the works of these Famous people?This is extremely fascinating and instructive at the same time.How like the proverbial hamsa (Swan),the master takes only the 'milk' and filters out the 'water' as can be seen from the Master's crisp and keen observations is beautifully brought out in this Excerpt dated Saturday, December 27, 1884.This has relevance to the ideal of 'Chastity' that we have been discussing.(This will have to be a serial post):
Saturday, December 27, 1884
It was the Christmas season. Taking advantage of the holiday, many devotees came to the
temple garden to visit the Master, some of them arriving in the morning. Among these were
Kedar, Ram, Nityagopal, Tarak, Surendra, M., Sarada Prasanna, and a number of young
devotees. This was Sarada Prasanna's first visit. .
MASTER (to M.): "Where is Bankim? Haven't you brought him with you?"
Bankim was a school boy whom Sri Ramakrishna had met in Bagh bazar. Noticing him
even from a distance, the Master had said that he was a fine boy.
After a while Sri Ramakrishna went to the Panchavati with the devotees. They surrounded
him, some sitting and some standing. He was seated on the cement platform around the
tree, facing the southwest. He asked M. with a smile, "Have you brought the book?"
M: "Yes, sir."
MASTER: "Read a little to me."
The devotees were eager to know the name of the book. It was called Devi Choudhurani.
The Master had heard that the book dealt with motiveless action. He had also heard of the
great renown of its author, Bankim Chandra Chatterji, whom he had met some days before,
and he wanted to gauge the author's mind from the book.
Continued...
Friends,
The story of Devi Choudhurani in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued:
M. said: "A young girl-the heroine-fell into the hands of a robber named Bhavani Pathak.
Her name had been Prafulla, but the robber changed it to 'Devi Choudhurani'. At heart
Bhavani was a good man. He made Prafulla go through many spiritual disciplines; he also
taught her how to perform selfless action. He robbed wicked people and with that money
fed the poor and helpless. He said to Prafulla, 'I chastise the wicked and protect the
virtuous.'"
MASTER: "But that is a king's duty."
M: "In one place the author writes of bhakti. Bhavani Pathak sent a girl named Nishi to
keep Prafulla company. Nishi was full of piety and looked on Krishna as her husband.
Prafulla was already married; she had lost her father and lived with her mother. The
neighbours had created a scandal about her character and avoided her, and so her father-inlaw
had not allowed her to live with his son. Later her husband had married again; but
Prafulla was extremely devoted to her husband.
(To Sri Ramakrishna) "Now, sir, you can follow the story."
M. read:
NISHI: "I am a daughter of Bhavani Pathak. He is my father. He has also, in a way,
given me in marriage."
PRAFULLA: "What do you mean?"
NISHI: "I have surrendered my all to Krishna."
PRAFULLA: "How is that?"
NISHI: "My beauty, youth, and soul."
PRAFULLA: "Then He is your husband."
NISHI: "Yes, because he alone is my husband who completely possesses me."
PRAFULLA (with a sigh): "I do not know. You talk that way because you do not
know what a husband is. If you had a real husband, you could never have liked Sri
Krishna.
The foolish Brajeswar-Prafulla's husband-was unaware that his wife loved him so
much.
NISHI: "All can love Sri Krishna, because He has infinite beauty,infinite youth, and
infinite splendour."
continued....
Friends,
The story of Devi Choudhurani in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued:
This young lady was a disciple of Bhavani and well-versed in logic.But Prafulla
was illiterate; she could not answer Nishi's arguments.But the writers of the Hindu
social laws knew the reply. God is infinite,no doubt; but one cannot keep the
infinite in the small cage of the heart. One can do so only with the finite. Therefore
the infinite Creator of the universe is worshipped by the Hindu in the cage of his
heart as Sri Krishna, the finite Personal God. The husband of a woman has a still
more definite form. Therefore if the wife cherishes pure conjugal love, the husband
becomes the first step toward God. Hence the husband is the only Deity to the
Hindu woman. Other societies are inferior to Hindu society in this respect.
Prafulla was an ignorant girl; she could not understand Nishi's arguments. She said,
"Friend, I do not understand all these arguments; but you haven't yet told me your
name."
NISHI: "Bhavani Pathak has given me the name of Nishi, Night. I am the sister of
Diva, Day. One day I shall introduce my sister to you. Let me continue what I was
saying. God alone is the real Husband; and to a woman the husband is her only
God. Sri Krishna is the God of all. Why should we cherish two Deities, two Gods?
If you divide to little bhakti of this small heart, how little there will be!"
PRAFULLA: "Don't be silly. Is there any limit to a woman's bhakti?"
NISHI: "There is no end to a woman's love. But bhakti is one thing, and love
another"
Continued....
The story of Devi Choudhurani in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued:
Summarizing part of the book, M. said that Bhavani initiated Prafulla into spiritual life.
He continued reading:
During the first year Bhavani did not allow any man to enter Prafulla's house nor
did he allow her to speak to any man outside the house. During the second year the
rule about speaking was withdrawn, but no man was allowed inside her house. In
the third year Prafulla shaved her head. Now Bhavani allowed his select disciples
to see her. The shaven-headed disciple would converse with them on scriptural
topics, keeping her eyes cast on the ground.
M. then read that Prafulla began the study of the scriptures; that she finished grammar and
read Raghuvamsa, Kumara Sambhava, Sakuntala, and Naishadha; and that she studied a
little of the Samkhya, Vedanta, and Nyaya philosophies.
Master and book-learning
MASTER: "Do you know what that means? People like the author of this book believe that
knowledge is impossible without the study of books. They think that first comes the
knowledge of books and then comes the knowledge of God. In order to know God one must
read books! But if I want to know Jadu Mallick, must I first know the number of his houses
and the amount of money he has in government securities? Do I really need all this
information? Rather I should somehow enter his house, be it by flattering his gate-keepers
or by disregarding their rough treatment, and talk to Jadu Mallick himself. Then, if I want
to know about his wealth or possessions, I shall only have to ask him about them. Then it
will be a very easy matter for me.
First God and then the world
First comes Rama, then His riches, that is, the universe, This is why Valmiki repeated the
mantra, 'mara'. 'Ma' means God, and 'ra' the world, that is to say, His riches."
The devotees listened to the Master's words with rapt attention.
continued....
The story of Devi Choudhurani in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued:
M. continued with the story of Prafulla:
Prafulla finished her studies and then practised spiritual austerity for many days.
Then one day Bhavani visited her; he wanted to instruct her about selfless work. He
quoted to her from the Gita : "Therefore do thou always perform obligatory actions
without attachment; by performing action without attachment one attains to the
highest."
He told her the three characteristics of disinterested action: first, control of the
sense-organs; second, absence of egotism; and third, surrendering the fruit of
action to Sri Krishna. He further told her that no dharma is possible for the
egotistic person. Quoting from the Gita, he said: "The gunas of Prakriti perform all
action. With the understanding deluded by egotism, man thinks, I am the doer."
Bhavani next spoke to her about surrendering the fruit of action to Sri Krishna.
Again he quoted from the Gita : "Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest,
whatever thou givest away, whatever austerity thou practisest, O son of Kunti, do
that as an offering unto Me."
MASTER: "This is fine. These are the words of the Gita; one cannot refute them. But
something else must be noted. The author speaks about surrendering the fruit of action to
Sri Krishna, but not about cultivating bhakti for Him."
M: "No, that is not especially mentioned here.
continued....
The story of Devi Choudhurani in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued:
"Next Prafulla and Bhavani talked about the use of money. Prafulla said that she
offered all her wealth to Krishna."
M. read from the book again.
PRAFULLA: "Like my actions, I offer all my wealth to Sri Krishna."
BHAVANI: "All?"
PRAFULLA: "Yes, all."
BHAVANI: "In that case you won't he able to perform action in a detached spirit. If
you have to work to earn your food, you will be attached to that work. Hence there
are two alternatives before you: either you will have to get your food by begging, or
you will have to live on your money. Even a beggar becomes attached to the alms
he receives; therefore you must use your own money to maintain your body."
M. (to the Master, smiling): "That is the nature of the calculating mind."
MASTER: "Yes, that is the nature of the calculating mind; that is the way the worldly man
thinks. But he who seeks God plunges headlong; he doesn't calculate about how much or
how little he needs for the protection of his body."
M: "Next Bhavani asked Prafulla, 'How will you offer all this money to Sri Krishna?'
Prafulla said: 'Why, Sri Krishna dwells in all beings. I shall distribute the money among
them.' Bhavani answered, 'Good! Good!'
"Quoting from the Gita , Bhavani said: 'He who sees Me in all things and all things
in Me, never becomes separated from Me, nor do I become separated from him.
That yogi who, established in unity, worships Me dwelling in all beings, abides in
Me, whatever his mode of life. O Arjuna, that yogi is regarded as the highest who
judges the pleasure and pain of all beings by the same standard that he applies to
himself."
MASTER: "These are the characteristics of the highest bhakta."
continued...
The story of Devi Choudhurani in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued:
M. again read from the book:
A man must work hard if he wants to help all beings with charity. Hence it is
necessary for him to make a little display of clothes, of pomp and luxury. Therefore
Bhavani said, "A little shop-keeping is necessary."
MASTER (sharply): "'A little shopkeeping is necessary!' One speaks as one thinks. If a
man thinks of worldly things day and night, and deals with people hypocritically, then his
words are coloured by his thoughts. If one eats radish, one belches radish. Instead of talking
about 'shopkeeping', he should rather have said, 'A man should act as if he were the doer,
knowing very well that he is really not the doer.' The other day a man was singing here.
The song contained words like 'profit' and 'loss'. I stopped him. If one contemplates a
particular subject day and night, one cannot talk of anything else."
The reading continued. The author was describing the realization of God. Prafulla had
become Devi Choudhurani. It was the month of Vaisakh. Devi was seated on the roof of her
house-boat talking with Diva and another woman companion. The moon was up. The boat
had cast anchor in the Ganges. The conversation turned to the question of whether one
could see God. Devi said, "As the aroma of a flower is directly perceived by the nose, so
God is directly perceived by the mind."
At this point the Master interrupted and said: "Yes, God is directly perceived by the mind,
but not by this ordinary mind. It is the pure mind that perceives God, and at that time this
ordinary mind does not function. A mind that has the slightest trace of attachment to the
world cannot be called pure. When all the impurities of the mind are removed, you may call
that mind Pure Mind or Pure Atman."
M: "The author says a little later that God cannot easily be perceived by the mind.
He says that one needs a telescope to have that direct vision. Yoga is the telescope. Yoga,
as it is described in the Gita , is of three kinds: jnana, bhakti, and karma. One is able to see
God through this telescope of yoga."
MASTER: "That is very good. These are the words of the Gita."
M: "At last Devi Choudhurani met her husband. She showed him great devotion and said to
him: 'You are my God. I wanted to learn the worship of another God but I did not succeed.
You have taken the place of all gods.' "
MASTER (smiling): "'I did not succeed.' This is the dharma of a woman totally devoted to
her husband. This also is a path."
The reading was over. The Master was smiling. The devotees looked at him, eagerly
waiting to hear what he would say.
MASTER (to the devotees, smiling): "This is not so bad; it is called the dharma of chastity,
the single-minded devotion of a wife to her husband. If God can be worshipped through an
image, why shouldn't it be possible to worship Him through a living person? It is God
Himself who sports in the world as men."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Beauty of the kathAmrita is its contextual setting of the Teachings and the vivid portrayal of the happenings.An inexhaustible treasure trove of Bhakti and jnAna ,like a sweet 'fried in the butter of jnana and steeped in the Honey of Love'
Namaskar.
How did Sri Ramana address people ?
In Tamil, we usually address people younger to us as "Nee" (Hindi-Tum) and people older as "Neenga" (Hindi - Aap).
Did Sri Ramana follow the usual practice ?
When he wanted to call people did he call them by name e.g while calling Balaram Reddy, would he call him as Balaram or more respectfully as Balaram Reddiar ?
Also, when referring to himself did he say Naan (I) or did he say Idhu (this) ?
I noticed that in the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Ramakrishna many times refers to himself as "this place".
When he wrote the famous letter while leaving for Arunachala, Sri Ramana in the first line refers to himself as "I have in search of my father....." From the second line onwards, he refers to himself as "this". Did he continue this practice in later life also ?
The reason for my doubt is that while I am a Tamilian myself and can speak Tamil, I cannot read or write Tamil and hence have not been able to read Sri Ramana's utterances in the original Tamil.
Thank you,
shiv
Dear Anon., (shiv)
1. Sri Bhagavan addressed everyone as Neenga, plural. A few like Ramanatha Brahmachari were called 'Ramanatha' and so on.
2. Sri Bhagavan, whenever someone enters the Hall never greeted saying, VAnga., come in plural. While addressing them of course, He said, Neenga.
3. While referring to Himself, He also said, 'this place'.
****
salutations to all:
Shiv/Others:
["...while I am a Tamilian myself and can speak Tamil, I cannot read or write Tamil and hence have not been able to read Sri Ramana's utterances in the original Tamil..."]
pardon me for this unsolicited suggestion/prescription :-): for one who can 'speak' tamizh, acquiring the ability to 'read' tamizh can't be too difficult at all (telling this from my experience)! just get the alphabets in your head and get started with bhagavAn's 'nAn yAr'. the ability to read will open up a treasure beyond your imagination :-). to love bhagavAn & to know how to 'speak' tamizh & to desire reading bhagavAn's compositions but not do so is like a person knowing english & enrolling in 'english literature' and yet not reading 'shakespearean tragedy'!!! (a shade less than a 'crime', isn't it?) :-)
in fact, since the best way to know what bhagavAn said is to 'directly' read his works without any translation of any kind (bhagavAn speaks directly, no translations/commenatries required), it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that all those who love bhagavAn & want to read bhagavAn's beautiful works "must" learn tamizh (it comes even more easily if one is an indian) :-)
salutations to all:
Shiv/Others:
forgot to mention that quite interestingly, it was a very good "non-tamizh" speaking friend who actually advised me to read bhagavAn's works in their 'original' without resorting to any translations or commentaries (including tamizh elaborations!) :-) perhaps, it wouldn't be out of place to add that after i began to read bhagavAn's works in tamizh, my doubts on what bhagavAn said regarding sAdhanA almost disappeared :-) the only doubt that remains, if at all it can be called a doubt, is 'realisation' itself :-)))
Sri Bhagavan on Untouchability:
Talks No. 308:
A question was asked regarding untouchability.
Sri Bhagavan said: The non-self is untouchable. The social untouchability is man-made, where the other untouchability is natural and divine.
DevoteeZ: Should the untouchables be allowed into our temples?
Maharshi: There are others to decide it.
****
S,
I agree with you. Not knowing how to read/write Tamil is definitely a drawback/handicap.
It is not only Sri Ramana's writings. It is also the other spiritual literature in Tamil like the Periapuranam, the poems of the Alwars etc.
I have made a new year resolution about learning to read/write Tamil.
Wish me luck !.
Warm Regards,
shiv
salutations to all:
Shiv:
[:...I have made a new year resolution about learning to read/write Tamil. Wish me luck !..."]
are you currently in india? if you are in bangalore or chennai, subramanian or ravi, who are very well-versed with tamizh, can help you get started...if not, please find somebody nearby to just get the alphabets thoroughly :-)
there is a nice book by mahAdevan titled 'aruNAchala siva' comprising the 'transliteration' (& commentary in english) of bhagavAn's aksharamaNamAlai. the english 'transliteration' here has very precise diacritical marks to emphasise the right stress in pronouncing tamizh alphabets through english. please download the tamizh audio & tamizh script of aksharamaNamAlai from the 'Tamil Parayana' section in the Asramam website. as a beginning, listen one verse everyday, carefully see its english transliteration, compare it with the tamizh script... all this may may appear a lot of work but within a short time, one will be richly rewarded :-). if one loves bhagavAn, it will happen effortlessly :-)
Shiv/s/R.Subramanian/Friends,
Shiv,wish you all the very best in your endeavours to learn Tamil.As you have said that this will open up a huge treasure trove of not just Sri Bhagavan's writings but that of the nAyanmars and AlwArs,Tirumanthiram of tirumoolar,TiruvAchakam of mAnikkavAchakar,pattinathAr,ThAyumAnavar,vaLLalAr,TirukkuRaL,MahAkavi bhAratiyAr,kavimani desika vinAyakam pillai,tiruppugazh of aruna girinAtha and above all the wonderful wisdom of GrandmA avvaiyAr.
you asked-"How did Sri Ramana address people ?"
Here is an excerpt from Suri nAgammA's 'Recollections of Sri RamanAsramam':
(4) HOW FORTUNATE IS THIS SABARI!
Sometime in 1946, S. Doraiswamy Iyer came to the
Ashram. He was a very successful lawyer practising in Madras,
earned a lot of money, gave up practice, donated all the money
to the Aurobindo Ashram, and lived there as an Ashramite.
Off and on, he used to come to Ramanasramam. Once it so
happened I was copying in a notebook various stotras in Telugu
in praise of Bhagavan, when Doraiswami came into the hall
and sat there. He saw how Bhagavan was calling me now and
then and giving me instructions about copying the stotras and
others in Telugu. Doraiswamy appears to have observed the
paternal affection with which Bhagavan was calling me and
so when Bhagavan left the hall and when I too was about to
leave soon after, he came directly behind me unobserved and
began singing the famous Thyagaraja kirtan: “How fortunate
is Sabari? How fortunate is this Sabari!” Startled at the
unexpected singing right behind my back, I turned round
and found him looking at me smiling. I asked him why he
was singing like that. Pointing his hand towards me he said,
“Yes, Amma, I am saying how fortunate is this Sabari!
Bhagavan does not speak to us even once though we ask him
all sorts of questions. In your case, Bhagavan himself asks for
you saying, ‘Where is Nagamma?’ and speaks to you every
now and then. How lucky you are!” I naturally felt very much
elated at that."
continued....
Suri nAgammA's 'Recollections of Sri RamanAsramam' continued:
In 1954 I shifted my permanent residence from the
Ashram to Andhra Pradesh and was coming to the Ashram
once or twice a year for a few months’ stay. On one such
occasion, perhaps in 1957, I remained in Bhagavan’s hall a
little longer than usual and with all thoughts of Bhagavan
crowding in on my mind, was going out when all of a sudden
I heard a voice from behind similar to Bhagavan’s calling,
“Where is Nagamma?” (Nagamma yedhi?). Startled at that,
I looked behind and found Devaraja Mudaliar smiling at me.
Noticing the tears that had welled up in my eyes, he said,
“Bhagavan used to call you like that, didn’t he?” Recovering
my balance of mind I replied, “Yes, Brother. What you have
said is perfectly correct. For a fleeting moment I felt it was
Bhagavan himself that was calling me. What a delusion! Be it
as it may, I have heard those soothing words once again at
least through your mouth. What a good day for me! It was
only after hearing those words from Bhagavan that
Doraiswamy Iyer sang the song ‘How fortunate is this Sabari!’
Those good days are gone never to return,” I said. Mudaliar
also felt likewise, and shared with me my regrets, being a
fellow devotee.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Letters from Sri Ramanasramam and Recollections from Sri Ramanasramam are among the best that capture the happenings in Sri Bhagavan's Presence in an intimate manner.
It is truly unfortunate that no devotee felt a need to keep a diary of the actual conversations of Sri Bhagavan in tamizh similiar to what 'M' had done in kathAmrita.
I find muruganAr's guru vAchaka kovai. a little bit of a pedantic, school masterly compilation of Sri bhagavan's teachings-a compendium stripped of all contextual sense,nothing more.We never get the BhAgavatham of Sri BhagavAn.The Talks too do not serve to fill in this aspect.This definitely is a let down.
Thankfully Sri Bhagavan's Works are available in glorious Tamil.For those of us who would like to be in the physical presence of Sri Bhagavan,the Letters from Sri Ramanasramam come closest.A visit to Sri Ramanasramam where all the haloed places associated with Sri Bhagavan are meticulously preserved will augment this-and when from there we take a long and lingering look at ArunAchala,when waves of devotion wells up within us,we relive and breathe in the Glorious presence of Sri Bhagavan.As we wonder whether Bhagavan has gone on his round (pradakshina)of the Hill of the Holy Beackon,the silent stillness that steals into us announces-'I am here.Where else I can go'.
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian/Friends,
"It was people such as Mudaliar Patti who showed us what real devotion was like. Hardly anyone remembers her nowadays. You won't find her mentioned in many books, but in my opinion, she was one of Bhagavan's greatest devotees."
I entirely agree.Yesterday I had been to anna Nagar,chennai to listen to the concluding part of TiruppAvai Talks(45th Talk-These talks were given by TGN a few years ago over a period of several weeks and they play the Recording ,one talk per day from the 1st of December till 14th january).In his brief introduction to the audience(of about 15 persons or so)who had gathered there,by way of illustrating the aspect of Service to the Divine(the paRai that AndAl had sought in TiruppAvai)TGN narrated the story of mudaliar pAtti who served food for Sri Bhagavan,through rain or shine.Once when she served food for Sri Bhagavan,he observed that the quantity was too much.Mudaliar pAtti(Grandma)immediately said-"It is just the mind;it thinks it is 'too much'.The quantity is okay!".
Sri Bhagavan immediately quipped -"Look.She is turning the tables on me!".
Mudaliar pAtti perhaps was the only one who gave back to sri Bhagavan a taste of his medicine!
Namaskar.
Friends,
The story of MudaliAr pAtti from 'saranAgathi' newsletter:
Mudaliar PAtti
Mudaliar Paatti lived in a village with her son and
daughter-in-law. She had been serving a sadhu.
When he was about to die, she asked him what
they should do now, and he said, “Go to Arunachala,
there is a young saint there. Serve him. Your life’s
purpose will be fulfilled.”
Mudaliar Paatti was past her prime when she came
to Bhagavan. She saw Bhagavan at Virupaksha cave
in 1910. Her very first glimpse of Bhagavan gave her
an exhilarating spiritual experience. On the spot, she
took a vow, “I will bring him food until my last day.”
Occasionally she would collect money or provisions
from the village. However, she gradually sold all
her property to enable herself to serve Bhagavan.
When she had nothing left, she would buy sesame
seeds from the market, crush oil, sell it in the market
and with the little profit she made, she would buy
provisions to make food for Bhagavan.
This is why Bhagavan once said, “I’m afraid of two
people — Ramanatha Brahmachari and MudaliarPaatti.” They were so completely selfless and so total
was their surrender that Bhagavan was made totally
responsible for them.
There are so many instances in Mudaliar Paatti’s
life that display her deep devotion. Even after Sri
Ramanashram came into being, she insisted on
serving food to Bhagavan with her own hand. She
had become half blind due to old age. One day, when
serving Bhagavan’s food she stepped on the leaf on
which his food was served. An attendant standing
close by scolded her, “Hey! You have poor eyesight,
why do you come? When you cannot see Bhagavan,
why do you come and disturb everyone?” Mudaliar
Paatti replied, “What does it matter if I can’t see
him? Bhagavan sees me; that is enough.”
continued....
MudaliAr pAtti and Sri Bhagavan continued:
Another time, when she heard that Bhagavan’s health
was deteriorating after the first surgery, she wanted
to see him. She had gone totally blind, but still insisted
on being with Bhagavan. She was brought to the hall,
and strained her eyes to see. Bhagavan consoled her,
“Paatti, I’m all right, my body is all right.” She was
not fully satisfied. She stepped outside and stood at
the entrance of the hall. When Bhagavan came out,
she said, “Bhagavan, stop!” With her hands she then
touched Bhagavan from his head to foot – she is the
only woman whom Bhagavan allowed to do so. He
asked her, “Are you satisfied now?”
This remarkable lady spent the last days of her life in
Ramana Nagar -- a little away from Ramanashram.
Kunju Swami, Viswanatha Swami and Suri Nagamma
were sent by Bhagavan to look after her. They built
a hut for her in Ramana Nagar. Bhagavan enquired
about her daily.
By 1949, Mudaliar Paatti had grown very old, had
gone blind, had lost her daughter-in-law, had lost
everything-–yet she continued cooking for Bhagavan.Even on her last day, she cooked food and made sure
that it was taken to Bhagavan. She insisted on being
informed when Bhagavan had finished eating her
food. When that was reported to her, she closed
her eyes and dropped her body.(This is absolutely stupefying-Ravi) Bhagavan gave
instructions to Kunju Swami and others that she
should be buried like a realized being (just as he had
done earlier in the case of Seshadri Swami).On a
previous occasion--the day when Echammal passed
away--Bhagavan had remarked, “Still, Mudaliar
Paatti is alive.” When Mudaliar Paatti passed away,Bhagavan declared, “A big responsibility has been
taken off my shoulders.”
The Universal Mother took the form of mother
Alagammal and gave Bhagavan his body. In the
forms of Ratnammal, Akhilandammal, Echammal
and Mudaliar Paatti, the Universal Mother nourished
Bhagavan’s body. Bhagavan graced these noble
women with realization.
Soon after Mudaliar Paatti dropped her body,
Bhagavan’s health deteriorated rapidly. Within a
few months, he too dropped his body.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Mudaliar Patti's devotion is unmatched as you have rightly said.
In the Hall, after Sri Bhagavan has completed His meal, with Mudaliar Patti's ghee mixed rice, He would leave His leaf plate and go for washing His hands. This was happening for many years, till He cleared His left over plate on His own, due to some incident. About it later.
Some devotees of second batch, used to compete for His left over plates
to take food on the same left over plate. This is considered a great act of guru bhakti, called Ucchishtam. Once Muruganar wanted to take his food on the left over plate. Someone came and told him not to use it, because Mudaliar Patti's (a non brahmin's) rice ball had been kept and therefore it was impure. Muruganar felt very bad and immediately wrote a poem.
I don't have the poem readily. It starts as ThacchariyAtha chaturmaRai pArpAn.... The meaning is:
"That Brahma who knows all the four Vedas, does not however know how to give birth to a jiva. Why did he give me a birth of a human
birth? If I had been born as a dog,
I would have tasted His ( Sri Bhagavan's) left over food. This opportunity has now been lost, Oh,
poor me!"
*
Happy Pongal (Makara Sankranti) Greetings to all!
****
Sri Bhagavan and Guhai Namasivaya:
Talks No. 447:
Sri Bhagavan said that a saint Namasivaya who was formerly living in Arunachala, must have undergone considerable difficulties. For he has sung a song saying: "God proves the devotee by means severe ordeals. A washerman beats the cloth on a slab, not to tear it but only to remove the dirt.
This Guhai Namasivaya's poem comes as Verse 21 of Sri Arunagiri Malai:
NallaruNai nAthar namai oRutthal
nenjame
KollukaikkO polAk kuNam pOkkak -
kallin
MazhukkuvAn kooRaikku mARupatto
vaNNAn
Azhukku vAngaike avan.
The good Arunagiri Natha punishes us only, not to kill us, but only to remove our bad conduct. Like the washerman who beats the cloth on the stone not to tear it off but only to remove the dirt.
*
David, you said the English rendering of Guhai Namasivaya would come in the New Year. I am eager to read it. Till then my poor translation has to be put up with by others.
****
Sri Bhagavan and Guhai Namasivaya:
Talks No. 492:
.....
Sri Bhagavan said: There are some tirthas on the Hill. e.g. MulaipAl
Tirtha and Pada Tirtha, are said to have been originated for or by Virupkaksha Devar and Guhai Namasivayar. There is also the Rishabha Tirtha. All of them are in good condition.
****
Murugnar's verse on the left over leaf plate:
The verse appears in Sri Muruganar, a biography in Tamizh by T.R. Kanakammal:
ThacchaRiyAtha chaturmaRaip
pArpAn chamiatha vudal
Ucchilutkanma thodarpAl puhuntha
chuNanganithu
Pukkilai vettup pulam peithu
kAlaiyiR puNNiya nin
Ecchilai vettu un iruthAL iRainji
irakkiinRathe!
The meaning given is:
This body created by Brahma, due to prarabdha is a dog, that weeps and seeks You only. It desires to have Your ucchishtam and prays to your holy Feet and begs!
****
Sri Bhagavan on brahmacharya (celibacy):
Talks No. 17:
Mr. Evant-Wentz's questions:
......
Devotee: Is not brahmacharya (celibacy) necessary for realization of the Self?
Maharshi: Brahmacharya is 'living in Brahman". It has not connection with celibacy as commonly understood. A real brahmachari, that is one who lives in Brahman, finds bliss in the Brahman which is the same as the Self. Why then should you look for other sources of happiness? In fact, the emergence from the Self has been the cause of all misery.
Devotee: Celibacy is a sine qua non
for Yoga?
Maharshi: So it is. Celibacy is certainly an aid to relaization among so many other aids.
Devotee: Is it not then indispensable? Can a married man realize the Self?
Maharshi: Certainly. It is a matter of fitness of mind. Married or unmarried, a man can realize the Self, because that is here and now. If it were not so, but attainable by some efforts at some other time, and if it were new and something to be acquired, it would not be worthy of pursuit. Because what is not natural cannot be permanent either.
But what I say is that the Self is here and now alone.
****
R.Subramanian,
"This body created by Brahma, due to prarabdha is a dog, that weeps and seeks You only. It desires to have Your ucchishtam and prays to your holy Feet and begs!"
Sorry Friend.I find MuruganAr not measuring up!He is still insistingon eating the left over on the Leaf!Done as man or a dog,it is still selfish!(I am taking this view to say that 'desire' is a 'Desire'!)Why should he be insisting on doing what Sri Bhagavan has expressly objected .
It occurs to me that ucchishtam is what is tasted by the Guru and passed onto the devotees-and this has nothing to do with the left over on the Leaf!
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,from the wonderful Chapter-Visit to Vidyasagar:
"What Brahman is cannot he described. All things in the world - the Vedas, the Puranas, the
Tantras, the six systems of philosophy - have been defiled, like food that has been touched
by the tongue, for they have been read or uttered by the tongue. Only one thing has not
been defiled in this way, and that is Brahman. No one has ever been able to say what
Brahman is."
The Guru out of compassion utters what is inexpressible in words ,in a language understandable to the devotees-and uses his tongue in this fashion.This becomes the uchhishtam(that which is tasted and left over by the tongue of the Guru)for the Disciple.The Disciple in partaking it has to assimilate this and get nourished.
You have to come out with a better story about MuruganAr's devotion!
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan and brahmacharya (celibacy)
Talks No. 491:
Mr. Kishorelal Mashruwala, President, Gandhi Seva Sangh, asked: "How is brahmacharya to be practiced in order that it may be successfully lived up to?"
Maharshi: It is a matter of will-power. Sattvic food, prayers, etc., are useful aids to it.
Devotee: Young men have fallen into bad habits. They desire to get over them and seek our advice.
Maharshi: Mental reform is needed.
Devotee: Can we prescribe any special food, exercise, etc., to them?
Maharshi: There are some medicines. Yogic asanas and sattvic food are also useful.
Devotee: Some young persons have taken a vow of brahmacharya. They repent the vow after the lapse of ten or twelve years. Under these circumstances, should we encourage young persons to take the vow of brahmacharya?
Maharshi: This question will not arise in the case of true brahmacharya.
Devotee: Some young men will take the vow of brahmacharya without knowing its full implications. When they find it difficult to carry it out in practice, they seek our advice.
Maharshi: They need not take a vow but they may try it without the vow.
Devotee: Is naishtika brahmacharya (life-long celibacy) essential as a sadhana for Self Realization?
Maharshi: Realization itself is naishtika brahmacharya. The vow is not brahmacharya. Life in Brahman is is brahmacharya and it is not a forcible attempt at it.
Devotee: It is said that kama (desire), krodha (anger) etc., vanish in the presence of the Sadguru. Is it so?
Maharshi: It is correct. Kama and krodha must vanish before Self Realization.
........
........
*****
Sri Bhagavan and Jnana Yoga:
Talks No. 434:
.....
Devotee: Is there any use of the man of Realization for the seeker?
Maharshi: Yes. He helps you to get rid of your delusion that you are not realized.
Devotee: So, tell me how.
Maharshi: The paths are meant only to de-hypnotize the individual.
Devotee: De-hypnotize me. Tell me what method to follow.
Maharshi: Where are you now? Where should you go?
Devotee: I know 'I am'. But I do not know what 'I am'.
Maharshi: Are there two 'I's then?
Devotee: It is begging the question.
Maharshi: Who says this? Is it the one who is, or is it the other who does not know what he is?
Devotee: I am, but do not know what or how?
Maharshi: "I" is always there.
Devotee: Does the 'I' undergo any transformation, say in death?
Maharshi: Who witnesses the transformation?
Devotee: You seem to speak Jnana Yoga. This is Jnana Yoga.
Maharshi: Yes, it is.
Devotee: But surrender is bhakti yoga.
Maharshi: Both are the same.
After sometime the man continued....
Then I have to conclude that I am Consciousness and that nothing occurs except my presence.
Maharshi: It is one thing to conclude it by reasoning and another thing is to be convinced.
The other man continued....
I shall wait three months and see if help is forthcoming. Now, may I have the assurance?
Maharshi: Is this what is asked by one who has surrendered?
Four visitors retired. The same man continued to say, "Fulfill your
promise." (Laughter)
He also said: God has given me enough for bread and butter and I am happy. In addition I want peace of mind. Hence this request.
*****
Sri Bhagavan and Jnana Yoga:
Talks No. 435:
Two ladies and two gentlemen had come from Ceylon.
.....
Devotee: Does God have any limits?
Maharshi: Leave God alone. What limits were there for your Self in your sleep?
Devotee: Death must be then the highest state.
Maharshi: Yes. We are now living in Death. Those who have limited the unlimited Self have committed suicide by putting on such limitations.
Devotee: Concentrate on the Self, you say. How to do it?
Maharshi: It that is solved everything is solved.
Devotee: Know Thyself, you say. How to know the Self?
Maharshi: You know that you are the body.
Devotee: Raja Yoga realizes through the body, senses, etc., and Sri Bhagavan advises realization b y thinking. This is Jnana Yoga.
Maharshi: How can you think without the body?
Devotee: God does not think.
Maharshi: Why then did you start asking, "In what shape did you see God?"
Devotee: God must be felt through the senses.
Maharshi: Are you not feeling God?
Devotee: Is everybody feeling God always?
Maharshi: Yes.
Devotee: Then what is realization?
Maharshi: Realization is to get rid of the delusion that you have not realized.
Devotee: I don't catch the point.
They left, having taken a snapshot.
****
Ravi/Subramanian
Though Muruganar enjoyed eating the leftovers on Bhagavan's leaf plate, he was fully aware of what constituted real ucchistam. This is verse 301 from Guru Vachaka Kovai:
The jnana-filled utterances that the Guru, the Atma-siddha, bestows as grace from his own experience, are truly his ucchistam. When, on hearing them, the disciple, without regarding them as ‘defiled food’, becomes speechless and breathless, subsides into the Heart and abides there firmly as one who is solely devoted to Atmanishta [abidance in the Self] – this is eating the ucchistam with joy.
Sadhu Natanananda has also recorded an upadesa by Bhagavan that expresses the true import of ucchistam. The first paragraph is Sadhu Natanananda's introductory remarks, while the second comprises Bhagavan's teaching statement:
[It has been said that] liberation can be attained by taking the ucchistam [the food that remains on the plate at the end of a meal] from meals eaten by the realised. Without realising the inner meaning of such statements on ucchistam, some who believed that ucchistam alone was the Guru’s grace used to arrange for bhiksha [feeding all the devotees in the ashram]. They would fast with devotional fervour and wait for the leaf-plate on which Bhagavan had taken his meals. Those devotees who had special faith in this practice used to fix their turn beforehand so that none would get disappointed. In order to demolish this meaningless belief of devotees who, without realising the truth of the Guru’s prasad, were fasting for the fake ucchistam, Bhagavan once remarked:
To be blessed by the sages with the experience of the Self, this alone is receiving the grace-filled prasad. This [experience of the Self] is the being-consciousness that is the natural experience of the sages who shine with unlimited contentment as the divine Self. Even if one gets a little of this ambrosia, which is very difficult to obtain, at that very moment one will obtain, as a direct experience, unlimited peace of mind. If one leaves this [state or experience], and if one remains content to accept only offerings such as rice, sacred ash, fruits and flowers as the Guru’s prasad, this will only lead to disappointment.’ (Sri Ramana Darsanam, p. 36)
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Since the Tamil word for disappointment also conveys the idea of cheating, this sentence also implies that one is cheating oneself if one accepts only material offerings as the Guru’s prasad.
Verses 302 and 303 of Guru Vachaka Kovai are also on the sbject of ucchistam:
The disciple should first offer himself, the ego, as naivedya [a consecrated food offering] to the mauna Guru, the perfect reality. Seizing experientially in the Heart the Atma-swarupa that then shines as the residue is consuming the leftover food of the Guru, which surpasses even immortalising ambrosia.
It is said [by the wise] that the leftover food which remains after the gods have eaten is the supremely purifying substance that removes sins completely. Accept in your Heart as that ucchistam the life of existing as pure being lived on this earth by those who have known reality.
In a note to this verse I added my own interpretation:
'God has eaten the egos of jnanis, leaving as ucchistam their bodily forms and their lives lived as being.'
Dear David,
I was going through Guru Vachka Kovai for the past 1/2 hour to find out what Ucchistham is. Yes. Muruganar knows what is the real purport of the word Ucchistham and perhaps in a heightened mood of devotion and intense faith, he must have also felt like taking the left overs from Sri Bhagavan's plate. There is nothing wrong in that.
Ucchistam also means the left over food, and not merely the food that is tasted and passed on to disciples by Guru, as Ravi expresses. For example, Sri Ramana Ucchishtam - a book about Sri Bhagavan's teachings, by Swami Ramanananda Swarnagiri, is translated in English as Crumbs From His Table.
In Sri Soundarya Lahari, there is a verse, where Skanda, Indra, Upendra
(Vishnu) come back victorious from
the war with demons and they come to Mother Lalita and they take the chewed betel leaf and nuts juice given by Mother Lalita. (Verse 65.). sashivishada kaRpura rasha kalA | viliyanthe madhasthava vadhana thAmboola kabala ||
There Sri Sankara says that Siva NirmAlyam (again Siva's food (remnants), His garments (worn and left) and His flowers (worn and left) has to be only for Sri Chandikeswara. The saint (one of the 63 saints) is only eligible for
Siva-nirmAlyam.
Sekkizhar sings beautifully, in PeriyapurAnam: Verse 1261:
ANdar piRanum thoNdar thamakku
adhibhanAkki anaithu nAm
Unda kalamum uduppanavum
chooduvanavum unakkAhach
ChandeesanmumAm padhan thanthOm
enRangkavar poRRada mudikkuth
ThuNda madhi ser chadaikonRai mAlai
vAngich choottinAr.
The lord of devas made him the leader of His devotees; "All that I eat and wear and wear on my head are only for you. You also get the post of Chandeesa (leader of devotees)", He said. Then He took his konRai garland from His matted locks and placed it on Chandikeswara.
PeriyAzhwar also sings about Narayana:
(Tirup PallANdu - Verse 9 in Mudhal Ayiram, First Thousand)
Uduthuk kaLaintha nin peedaka vAdai
uduthuk kaLanthathNndu
Thodutha thuzAi malar choodik
kaLainthana
ChoodmithoNdargaLOm......
We wear the yellow robes of yours after you had left it after wearing;
We adorn our shoulders with tulsi
garland that was worn and left by you.....
Yes. GVK Verses 301 and 302 clearly indicate what Muruganar means by Ucchishtam.
He also says in Verse 303:
It is said by the wise, that the left over food which remains after the gods have eaten is the supremely purifying substance that removes sins completely. Accept in your Heart as that ucchishtam the life of existing pure being lived on this earth by those who have known Reality. (Tr. David Godman)
Sometimes blind bhakti does what ratiocination can not do. In Karnataka, in the 8 maths of Krishna, Udupi etc., devotees role over the left over leaves of the the other devotees, as a mark of respect and love and more than that bhakti and faith. (urulu sevai they call it.)
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Jnanagni: (Fire of Wisdom):
Talks No. 216:
Maharshi gave the meaning of Arunachala:
Aruna = Red, bright like fire.
The fire is not ordinary fire which is only hot. This is Jnanagni (Fire of Wisdeom) which is neither hot nor cool.
Achala = a Hill
So it means Hill of Wisdom.
****
David/R.Subramanian/Friends,
Thanks very much for your posts on uchhishtam.I am sure that MuruganAr would know the import of uchhishtam.This is not to denigrate the people who had faith in the other forms of uchhishtam,which has its own merits as well.I fully agree with what R.Subramanian has said:Sometimes blind bhakti does what ratiocination can not do..
The point I have made is that it is not proper for muruganar to do something that Sri Bhagavan had objected to!.All the Prasad that Sri Bhagavn used to distribute in the Hall after sampling is also Uchhishtam and this has Great value.
Everything cannot be turned into advaitic perspective-for then the Disciple himself does not exist nor the guru and where is room for anything else,uchhishtam or otherwise.
As MuruganAr says:"Accept in your Heart as that ucchistam the life of existing as pure being lived on this earth by those who have known reality."This is what it is.
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All the above is all well.Muruganar's Guru vachaka kovai ,to me,sounds a little staid being just a compilation of Teachings.
The 'Uchhishtam' has to have the 'taste' conveyed -this is called 'rasa'.It is the sugar coated medicine that is not only good but tasty for the devotees.
In his excellent talks on Srimad Bhagavatham,Sri Nochur VenkatrAman beautifully brings out this aspect-the 'rasa' aspect.For instance there is the Bhagavad gita which is inspirational in its own way and has all the teachings of Bhagavan sri Krishna.Yet when parikshit had to face Death on account of the curse of a rishi putra,it was Srimad BhAgavatham that was pressed into service and not the Gita.Both expound the Ultimate Truth,yet the Bhagavatham scores over the Gita!
Continued....
Sri Bhagavan about Jnana Chakshu:
(Eye of Wisdom):
Talks: 500:
......
Maharshi: Jnana Chakshus does not mean that it is an organ of perception, like the other sense organs. Jnanameva Chakshuh. Television$, etc., are not functions of Jnana Chakshuhs. So long there is a subject and also an object it is only relative knowledge. Jnana lies beyond relative knowledge. It is Absolute.
($ Not the idiot box. It means seeing or knowing what happens at far off place.)
The Self is the source of subject and object. Now ignorance prevailing, the subject is taken to be the source. The subject is the knower and forms one of the triads whose components cannot exist independent of one another. So the subject or the knower cannot be the ultimate Reality. Reality lies beyond subject and object. When realized, there will be no room for doubt.
"Bhidyate hridayagrantih
chhiidyante sarvasarsayah."
The heart knot is snapped. Doubts are at rest. That is called pratyaksha and not what you are thinking. Avidya nasa is alone Self Realization. Self Realization is only owpacharika. Self-Realization is only an euphemism for culmination of ignorance.
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