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Sri Ramana Maharshi
Welcome
I propose to use this blog primarily to air my occasional musings on any matters relating to the life and teachings of Ramana Maharshi. There will also be occasional contributions about Arunachala, the sacred mountain where Sri Ramana spent all of his adult life.
Articles and interviews on these topics can also be found on my site: www.davidgodman.org.
Articles and interviews on these topics can also be found on my site: www.davidgodman.org.
748 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 748 of 748ADVAITA BODHA DEEPIKA:
Q: What does Vedanta teach?
Master: The Vedanta teaches a man to know that all but the non dual Brahman is laden with misery, therefore to leave off all desires of enjoyment, to be free from love or hate, thoroughly to cut the knot of the ego appearing as "I", you, he, this, that, mine, and yours, to rid himself of the notion of "I" and 'mine', to live unconcerned with the pairs of opposites as heat and cold, pain and pleasure, etc., to remain fixed in the perfect knowledge of the equality of all and making no distinction of any kind, never to be aware of anything but Brahamn, and always to be experiencing the Bliss of the non dual Self.
Though Vedanta is read and well understood, if dispassion is not practices, the desire for pleasures will not fade away. There is no dislike for pleasing things and the desire for them cannot leave the person. Because desire is not checked, love, anger, etc., the ego or the false 'I' in the obnoxious body, the sense of possession represented by 'I' or 'mine' of things agreeable to the body, the pairs of opposites like pleasures and pain, and false values, will not disappear. However well read one may be, unless the teachings are put into practice, one is not really learned. Only like a parrot, the man will be repeating that Brahman alone is real and all else is false.
Q: Why should he be so?
Master: The knowers say that like a dog delighting in offal, this man also delights in external pleasures. Though always busy with Vedanta, reading and teaching it, he is no better than a mean dog.
[Asramam publication. Eng. Tr. Munagala Venkataramiah]
Dear Clemens Vargas Ramos,
1. Once Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni and Sri Bhagavan, were strolling on the Hill. It was late evening. Suddenly Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni said: Bhagavan! There are innumerable stars and planets in the firmament. On seeing these, I am wondering at the expanse of this universe and the Creator. Sri Bhagavan was also gazing at the sky and then suddenly said: "Nayana, I find that all these stars and planets are revolving around my waist!"
Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni, suddenly horripilated at Sri Bhagavan's statement looked at Him and found the glistening eyes of Sri Bhagavan. Reflections on the Golden Eyes! Nayana became emotional on realizing His State and folded his hands in reverence.
2. In course of time, the devotees in the Old Hall, particularly the ladies, started doing pradakshina of the Old Hall, when Sri Bhagavan was siting inside. Tenamma started it and soon many ladies, even Suri Nagamma started this pradakshina business. Not only that, on each of the four quarters of the Hall, they were looking at Sri Bhagavan and did prostration! It was somewhat disturbing to other devotees since they were distracted by these ladies walking around the Hall and their shadows were seen through windows. Sri Bhagavan after some time said: Enough of this practice. Enough. What is true pradakshina? It is pradakshina of the Self within. What is true namaskaram? It is prostrating to the Self within. Have you all not read Ribhu Gita?
The practice then stopped.
I am, indeed, the complete, perfectly full Brahman,
I am, indeed, the Supreme Brahman, which is the Self of all.
I am,indeed, the Supreme Brahman, which is spread out as the Infinite Consciousness.
I am, indeed, the Supreme Brahman, which is the Supreme Self.
I am, indeed, the Supreme Brahman, which transcends the Vedas and such.
I am the Supreme Brahman, which is self-luminous,
Being immersed in this certitude of the Nondual, without a second,
Ever be in Bliss. [30.18]
Dear S.,
This Tiruvisaippa is by Tiru MaaLigai Thevar. It is the 5th song.
Tiur MaaLigai Thevar must have come much later than Periya Puranam, [10th century] but before Nambi Aandar Nambi [12th century], who arranged the 12 Siva Canons.
Kolame - O the beatific!
Melai Vaanavar kone - King of Devas!
Gunankuri iRanthathor guname! -
One who is of special character, without character and form!
Kalame - O the Time!
Gangai Nayaka - Ganga's Master!
Engal Kala kala - Our Master who is the death of death!
Kama Nasa - O remover of all passions and delusions!
Alame amudhundu ambalam sempon,
Kovil kondu aadavallane - Taking poison as nectar, dancing in the golden Hall of Conscioousness!
i.e Tiruchitraambalam, Thillai or Chidambaram.
Jnalame - O, the World
Thamiyen - this poor me,
Nattravath thaayai - [can I reach you as] my Mother attained through great tapas.
Thondanen naNukuma naNuke -
Can this servant come close to you in the manner that I should seek you!
salutations to all:
Ravi/Folks:
ravi had said ["...Every Sage draws to him a section of people for whom his teachings have appeal.This is a Providential arrangement and this is how it works..."]
drew my attention to the comment given by 'tirumandhira-chelvar' venkatarAman (a tirumandhiram scholar) on the last line of the below verse: "the goal is liberation from the bondage of ignorance caused by the ANava-mala ('i'-impurity) but the specific path the jIva may take will be illuminated by the grace of the lord."
verse 1.006 of the "tirumandhiram":
அவனை ஒழிய அமரரும் இல்லை
அவன் அன்றிச் செய்யும் அருந்தவம் இல்லை
அவன் அன்றி மூவரால் ஆவது ஒன்று இல்லை
அவன் அன்றி ஊர் புகுமாறு அறியேனே
[avanai ozhiya amararum illai
avan anRi cheyyum arunthavam illai
avan anRi mUvarAl Avadhu onRu illai
avan anRi Ur pukumARu aRiyEnE]
(except for him, there are no devAs/ immortals,
there is no great penance without him (without his grace),
but for him, the trinity can do naught,
without him, i know not the way to the goal)
Subramanian, Was the sadhu involved perhaps Dandapani Swami?
Dear S.
This is a simple but beautiful song
in Tirumandiram. "Oor" here means
both Abode of Siva and Chidambaram. Many devotees like Saint Manikkavachagar and Nandanar [Tiru NaaLai Povar] entered the inner sanctorum of Thillai called Kanaga Sabha, the Hall of Consciousness, which is identical with liberation.
Dear Anon.,
This Sadhu mentioned in the comment
could be Dhandapani Swami, father in law of Muruganar. But the portion from which I wrote, did not mention the person. But in case of Dhandapani Swami, [a hefty man], Sri Bhagavan gave a simple tap on his back. Dhandapani Swami felt as if it was a thunderbolt that had stuck him. He became dizzy. But wisdom dawned him. Perhaps it was also one of the many types of diksha. Thereafter, Dhandapani Swami became a quiet person and avoided all quarrels with Chinnaswami.
IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM:
Although often unscrupulously edited, or else misunderstood by well meaning translators, major religious scriptures still contain references to the Spiritual Sound, although it seems that the guardian of mainstream religions are unaware of this. For example, the mantra Nada Brahman, literally means God is Sound. In fact, the
Vedas refer to the Audible Life Stream, as Vak, which translated means simply Word. But it is not the ordinary word. The Vak was regarded as being of equal importance to the spiritual Light, which was called Agni. Scholars have concluded that the Vak and the Agni were regarded by the ancient Vedic sages, as two aspects of the one universal spiritual power. [Saiva Siddhantis call it as Siva OLi and Parai Natham.]
Further, Vedic sages distinguished between physical mundane sound, which they referred to as ahata, and the non physical cosmic sound, which they named as anahata, literally, unstuck sound. The mantra AUM represents cosmic sound as the sound of ultimate reality.
Similarly in the Gospel of Saint John, this is referred to as the Word. "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God. The term Word was translated from the original Greek word Logos which can mean both word and sound.
So E.B. Szekely, in his Essene Communions with the Infinite, International Biogenic Society, says:
In the beginning was the Sound, and the Sound was with God and the sound was God.
Manjushri, who is believed to have been a Buddha, in his own right and is noted for his immense wisdom says:
I now submit to the World Honoured One, Buddha Sakyamuni!
That all Buddhas from this world escaped,
By following the teaching, here most suitable,
Which consists in sublimating sound....
Realized by means of spiritual hearing.
... When one dwells in quietude,
Rolls of drums from ten directions,
Simultaneously are heard.
[Luk,Charles, the Secret of Chinese Meditation.]
Dear S.,
While referring the book X of Saiva Canons, for your verse, I chanced upon this verse from Tiruvaliamudhanar, [not among 63 saints, post Sekkizhar]:
PadangoL paambanai yanodu biraman
Paramparama! Arul enru
Thadngaiyal thohavum...
The god with serpent as his bed,
[Narayana] and Brhama folded with
their broad hands, please grace us!...
Thazhal aadu chitrambalavan,
Thadangai naangum ath thoLgaLum
Thada marbinil poonkaL metrisai....
The Chitrambalan, Siva with his broad hands and broad shoulders,
and with broad chest where there are adornements [of serpents, and sacred thread], went to the west {?}
VidangoL kandam anre...
Took the halahala poison which remained in his throat,
Vinaiyenai melivithave...
This form of him thinned my sins of this sinful servant.
{X.7.221]
s/Friends,
s has posted this verse from tiruvisaippA:
கோலமே மேலை வானவர் கோவே குணங்குறி இறந்ததோர் குணமே
காலமே கங்கை நாயகா எங்கள் காலகாலா காமநாசா
ஆலமே அமுதுண்டு அம்பலம் செம்பொன் கோயில்கொண்டு ஆடவல் லானே
ஞாலமே தமியேன் நற்றவத் தாயைத் தொண்டனேன் நணுகுமா நணுகே!
Meaning:
Oh Comely one!King of the Celestials Brahma and Vishnu!
The Goodness where attributes and aims are No more!
Eternal!Lord of Ganga!Death of our Death!Destroyer of Lust!
Drinking as ambrosia the Deadly poison, Oh!The Mighty one who dances in the Golden temple at chidambaram!
On this Earth,Grace me, that I the servitor, be Drawn to the Austere Mother(Uma)!
Namaskar.
Friends,
ThAyumanavar's hymns to the Divine mother are some of the finest ever.In this Hymn(5)of malai vaLar kAdhali peN uma-the Lover damsel who grew up in the mountain-he says that the Divine Mother having given birth to the universe,yet is a virgin.Looks like he composed after visiting kanyakumari in cape comorin,South india.
Here is the verse 5,which has a sweet mantric feel about it,as he refers to the way devotees chant her name:
பூரணி புராதனி சுமங்கலை சுதந்தரி
புராந்தகி த்ரியம்பகிஎழில்
புங்கவி விளங்குசிவ சங்கரி சகஸ்ரதள
புஷ்பமிசை வீற்றிருக்கும்
நாரணி மனாதீத நாயகி குணாதீத
நாதாந்த சத்திஎன்றுன்
நாமமே உச்சரித் திடுமடியர் நாமமே
நானுச்ச ரிக்கவசமோ
ஆரணி சடைக்கடவுள் ஆரணி எனப்புகழ
அகிலாண்ட கோடிஈன்ற
அன்னையே பின்னையுங் கன்னியென மறைபேசும்
ஆனந்த ரூபமயிலே
வாரணியும் இருகொங்கை மாதர்மகிழ் கங்கைபுகழ்
வளமருவு தேவைஅரசே
வரைரா சனுக்கிருகண் மணியாய் உதித்தமலை
வளர்காத லிப்பெண்உமையே.
Oh Perfection (Poorani)!
Ancient one (PurAdhani)!
Auspicious one(Sumangali)!
Autonomous one(Swatantri)!
Destroyer of Triune Cities (Purantaki)!
Triple Eyed one!
Lovely Goddess (ezhil Pungavi)!
Sankari,spouse of Siva!
NArani,seated
On the thousand petalled lotus (in cranium)!
Godess transcending mind!
Shakti transcending attributes and sound !
Chant thus devotees, your name.
That Name,Am I fit to chant?
Praised art Thou as Arani
By Him who weareth the Ar (Athi or Konrai) blossom.
Oh Mother that gave birth to universes Vast,
Yet spoken of in the Vedas as a Virgin,the Blissful one comely as a peacock!
Born as
'apple of the eye' to the Mountain King,where the corset breasted damsels Rejoice (bathing)in the renowned Ganges!
Oh uma!the Beloved Damsel who grew up in the Mountain !(himalayAs)
Namaskar.
Ravi,
I have flicked a few pages in Aurobindo's books heeding to your repeated recommendation.I have to say that in the topics I picked there is some sort of clarity, purpose, defintion and depth lacking.There is no that definitivesness or depth or purpose.Now if we compare that with Kanchi Mahaswami he has that resource, depth,definitive and intelligent argument buiding.Again my introduction to that Swami is also from yourself.Swami Vivekananda is also good but unfortunately becuase he was delivering those to a foreign audience there is lightweightedness to it.Lately I feel even Swami Vivekananda is a jack of all and master of none *topics wise*.But the greatest that I have read so far are Ramana literature.His replies are bang on the point, exacting and there is a full ness and supreme intelligence, finality and authoritative.With his un-assuming suggestive and non-invasive operation like but delivers a final blow on the matter.When he smells trouble(people dragging him into caste, politics, world) he uses his Brahmaastram.Thakur is very close but one has to understand that Thakur has a predicament role to play with legs on both sides of the wall otherwise I guess his can be the same as Ramana's.Dont get me started on Jiddu.He waffles and waffles and never comes to the point.Papaji is Rasagolla.Ramesh Balsekhar is common sense theology.UG is my third favourite.He is the greatest speaker I have heard and stunningly brilliant,extremely quick and extempore(no such thing as editing) but beyond a point is not practical.Lakshmana Swamy and Sri Saradamma cant be bothered .Yogananda a one hit wonder.Meher Baba jumped off as Avatar before landing.Murugunar sticky notes.Shirdi Sai Baba no words only action.Sivananda never finished his college thesis.
No judging here and needless to say based on only what I read and how much I understood and what I now remember.
-z
Forgot to mention Ibn Arabi.Stunningly brilliant and comes across as authority in himself and I think in so far I have read is the best resource on explaination of the matters of 'Para' although I have understood very little of the little I read of his.He is the Intellect's best favourite.
Again this reminds me of the story of Lord Siva's depth/column of fire.How unending can be the expanse.Even light from a star in our own galaxy can take millions of light years to reach us.Now I feel the nerves in my brain could snap if I try to imagine the speed of light in one second what to take of an hour, day or a light year forget millions of light years.Such is the expansiveness of knowledge/depth.Such is the depth and wisdom of a Saint and in essence foolish to compare.
Nevertheless we only move forward by measuring.There is no other way to move forward than being foolish.
-z
z,
"But the greatest that I have read so far are Ramana literature.His replies are bang on the point, exacting and there is a full ness and supreme intelligence, finality and authoritative.With his un-assuming suggestive and non-invasive operation like but delivers a final blow on the matter.When he smells trouble(people dragging him into caste, politics, world) he uses his Brahmaastram."
This is undoubtedly true.Just hold onto this.That will do.
I appreciate your openness to explore other approaches,this helps develop and exapnd us and help drop our prejudices that we may hardly suspect existing in us.Despite this,one will prefer a certain approach to the exclusion of others,as thAkur says-"Say yes,yes but hold firm to your path".This does not mean that we should just nod to everything said,but to be open and receptive,yet have the steadiness to move along the path that one has been travelling.This sort of attitude helps one on the path.As we do this,we will find that all differences are truly not differences but different approaches to the same Truth,expressed differently.
Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi, Anon[z],
Sri Bhagavan is simple and is direct,
but can be quite puzzling at times.
He said 'Ignorance is to be aware!'.
In some other blog, there has been
posts on what it could really mean?
He has also said: "Why Akandakara
Vritti?" Where is any Vritti?"
These are simple sentences but
are quite subtle.
In addition to the animal shrines at
Sri Ramanasramam, Sri Bhagavan constructed two more samadhis for animals while He was still living on the Hill. The first one was for the pet peacock which lived at Skandasramam, which died on Sri Bhagavan's lap. The second one is for a parrot.
One day, Echammal, one of the earliest devotees of Sri Bhagavan,
was climbing the Hill after giving bhiksha to Him. She saw a parrot being attcked by a crow. At that time, Sri Bhagavan was living on the Hill in Skandasramam. She brought the injured parrot to Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan and Echammal tended it for four or five days. But finally one day, the parrot died on the Hill, Sri Bhagavan remarked: "A building will come up here." The prediction came true. A buildign soon appeared there to be known as KiLi Guhai, the Cave of the Parrot.
[BHAGAVAN RAMANA - A FRIEND OF ALL]
"Is not the Master's Grace [Guru Anugraha] the result of God's Grace?"
some one asked Sri Bhagavan.
Sri B: Why distinguish between the two? The Master is God [Iswara] Himself, and not different from Him.
Here Grace is Guru, who is not other than God Himself, by implication, means that Grace cannot be fully recognized till sometime after meeting the Guru, when its working becomes increasingly perceptible to the subject's consciousness. Although throughout life one may feel something of it, yet its transformation has taken place, due to the presence and guidance of the Guru and the practice of Sadhana.
[REFLECTIONS ON TALKS - S.S. Cohen]
Saiva Sidhantis have therefore extolled both Siva and Uma together. Uma is the Grace aspect and Siva is Brahman. Even in the recently posted Tiruvisaippa verse, it is Uma who is mentioned, as having been responsible for the devotee reaching the Abode of Siva. Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar mentions Thodudaiya Seviyan in his first song. Thodu is the ear stud of women. But he says Seviyan, one who has got Thodu. It means Siva and Uma are concorporate, Ardhanari. In Sambandhar's case they came together and was seen by the child-poet on the western towers of Sirkazhi.
Uma as Meenakshi had three breasts.
While Meenakshi went for war and met Siva, her one breast disappeared and she became the conquered instead of conquering Siva. Now she had two breasts like any woman. But on getting half the form of Siva in
Arunachala, she lost another breast. Now as Ardhanari, she had only one breast. She did not breast feed Muruga. Muruga was breast-fed by Kartikai girls, six mothers. Ganesa is the primordial. He took form as a boy straightaway, when Uma made a form with turmeric paste on her body while bathing.
So she used the remaining breast
to feed Tiru Jnana Sambandha!
[Heard in a discourse]
"Are the thoughts mere matter?"
- a devotee asked.
Sri B: Do you mean to matter like things you see around you? But who is the thinker? You admit that he is Spirit. Do you mean that Spirit generates matter? Can Consciousness generate non-consciousness? Or Light, the darkness?
The questioner rightly demands clarification of the oft-repeated
assertion that the world is merely our thoughts. Sri Bhagavan's answer implies that by 'our thoughts' is meant a mere appearance, which has nothing real in it, like the appearance of water in a mirage, which is no water at all.
Thoughts are after all mere vibrations in consciousness, in themselves they are NOTHING, but in our minds, they assume ideas or notions of objects, mountains, lands, seas, forests, and the thousands of the things that surround us - or else how can Brahman or God, who is Pure Spirit, generate stones, fire, water, however much the religions of the world may hail Him as their creator? Further, it is utterly inconceivable that He, who is immaculate radiance as supreme Bliss-Intelligence, should give rise to the abnormal darkness of avidya, or to fear, hatred, envy, pain, diseases, etc., The inference is neither the world nor avidya exists. They are pure fantasy - Consciousness alone is.
Vasishta tells Rama: "The visible world, O Rama, myself, thyself, and all things are NOTHING; they are uncreated, unborn, the Supreme Spirit alone exists by Itself. As pearls in the sky, the world is non existent. It is as unreal as the individual soul, in the Void of Consciousness.
[Yoga Vasishta, III - xiv-xv.]
[REFLECTIONS ON TALKS - S.S. COHEN]
Tiru Veezhimizhalai is in Tiruvarur
district in Tamizh Nadu. The Siva
Temple is known for its exquisite
architecture. Tiruveezhimizhalai mantapam, called Bat Mantapam is a
quite difficult architecture. I have not seen this temple. Here is where when Vishnu was doing puja for Siva, out of 1000 lotuses, one lotus was missing and he used one of his eyes as lotus and finished his puja. Vishnu was given Chakra disc, here, as per puranas.
Sendhanar has composed a 12 verse song for this temple. A sample:
Countless feet have you,
Countless are your heads,
Countless are your holy names
Counteless are your faces, with three eyes, a beauty,
You are beyond countless distances, and five hundred brahmins,
With countless good aspects of conduct,
Will pray to You, You are our Master!
Like Thillai, Chidambaram had 3000 dikshitars, Tiruveezhimizhalai had 500 brahmins praying to Siva in the temple, staying in the town for ever.
The Tamizh verse starts as,
ENNNIL pal kodi sevadi mudigaL....
THEY SAW THE LIMIT OF PRIMAL IGNORANCE:
It is learnt from Sri Ramakrishna's
biography that even Totapuri, who was a born renunciant, an avadhuta,
who was always wandering like a bird, could not realize the root ignorance hidden deep within his heart until Sri Ramakrishna pointed out to him.
I have now discovered the thief who is my enemy posing as a friend. Now I will punish him.
Even King Janaka, who made these remarks, seems to have recognized the subtle nature of the ego only
belatedly.
It is learnt from Sankara Vijayam that the remnant of primal ignorance that was hidden in Sri Sankara under the cloak of Vedic belief was exposed by Lord Viswanatha, appearing in human garb, as an outcaste. {Manisha
Panchakam].
Similarly, in the case of Nidaga , the remnant of the root evil under the ritualistic cloak was brought out by Sage Ribhu.
[SRI RAMANA DARSANAM - SADHU
NATANANANDA - TR. DAVID GODMAN]
salutations to all:
Subramanian/Ravi:
many thanks for all the translations. hope you don't mind the trouble; i may keep burdening with such things now & then :-)
the (tiruvIzhimalai) sEndhnAr padhigam you referred to starts with "ஏகநா யகனை இமையவர்க் அரசை...". have the dharmapuram svAminAthan rendition of this padhigam - please let me know if you would like me to mail it to your mail id?
Dear S.,
Thank you very much. My e mail ID:
g337h4@yahoo.com.
Friends,
Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Saturday, September 22, 1883
Sri Ramakrishna was seated in the drawing-room of Adhar's house in Calcutta, with
Rakhal, Adhar, M., Ishan, and other devotees. Many gentlemen of the neighbourhood were
also present. It was afternoon.
The Master was very fond of Ishan. He had been a superintendent in the Accountant
General's office, and later on his children also occupied high government positions. One of
them was a class-mate of Narendra. Ishan's purse was always open for the poor and needy.
When he retired from service, he devoted his time to spiritual practices and charity. He
often visited Sri Ramakrishna at Dakshineswar.
MASTER (to Ishan): "Please tell us the story of the boy who posted the letter."
ISHAN (with a smile): "A boy once heard that God is our Creator. So he wrote a letter to
God, setting forth his prayers, and posted it. The address he put on the envelope was
'Heaven'."
MASTER (with a smile): "Did you hear that story? One succeeds in spiritual life when one
develops a faith like that boy's. (To Ishan) Tell us about the renunciation of activities."
ISHAN: "After the attainment of God, religious duties such as the sandyha drop away. One
day some people were sitting on the bank of the Ganges performing the sandyha. But one
of them abstained from it. On being asked the reason, he said: 'I am observing asoucha. I
cannot perform the sandyha ceremony. In my case the defilement is due to both a birth and
a death. My mother, Ignorance, is dead, and my son, Self-Knowledge, has been born.'"
MASTER: "Tell us, also, how caste distinctions drop away when one attains Self-
Knowledge."
ISHAN: "Sankaracharya was once climbing the steps after finishing his bath in the Ganges,
when he saw just in front of him an untouchable who had a pack of dogs with him. 'You
have touched me!' said Sankara. 'Revered sir,' said the pariah, 'I have not touched you, nor
have you touched me. The Self is the Inner Ruler of all beings and cannot be contaminated.
Is there any difference between the sun's reflection in wine and its reflection in the
Ganges?' "
MASTER (with a smile): "And about harmony: how one can realize God through all
paths."
Ishan (smiling): "Both Hari and Hara are derived from the same root. The difference is only
in the pratyaya. In reality, He who is Hari is also Hara. If a man has faith in God, then it
doesn't matter whom he worships."
MASTER: "And please tell us also how the heart of the sadhu is the greatest of all."
ISHAN: "This earth is the largest thing we see anywhere around us. But larger than the
earth is the ocean, and larger than the ocean is the sky. But Vishnu, the Godhead, has
covered earth, sky, and the nether world with one of His feet. And that foot of Vishnu is
enshrined in the sadhu's heart. Therefore the heart of a holy man is the greatest of all."
The devotees were delighted with Ishan's words.
Continued....
Friends,
The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...
Ishan intended to retire to a solitary place and practise a special discipline of the Gayatri,
through which Brahman is invoked. But the Master said that the Knowledge of Brahman
was not possible without the complete destruction of worldliness. Further, he said that it
was impossible for a man totally to withdraw his mind from the objects of the senses in the
Kaliyuga, when his life was dependent on food. That is why the Master discouraged people
from attempting the Vedic worship of Brahman and asked them to worship Sakti, the
Divine Mother, who is identical with Brahman.
MASTER (to Ishan): "Why do you waste your time simply repeating 'Neti, neti'? Nothing
whatsoever can be specified about Brahman, except that It exists.
"Whatever we see or think about is the manifestation of the glory of the Primordial Energy,
the Primal Consciousness. Creation, preservation, and destruction, living beings and the
universe, and further, meditation and the meditator, bhakti and prema-all these are
manifestations of the glory of that Power.
"But Brahman is identical with Its Power. On returning from Ceylon, Hanuman praised
Rama, saying: 'O Rama, You are the Supreme Brahman, and Sita is Your Sakti. You and
She are identical' Brahman and Sakti are like the snake and. its wriggling motion. Thinking
of the snake, one must think of its wriggling motion, and thinking of its wriggling motion,
one must think of the snake. Or they are like milk and its whiteness. Thinking of milk, one
has to think of its colour, that is, whiteness, and thinking of the whiteness of milk, one has
to think of milk itself. Or they are like water and its wetness. Thinking of water, one has to
think of its wetness, and thinking of the wetness of water, one has to think of water.
"This Primal Power, Mahamaya, has covered Brahman. As soon as the covering is
withdrawn, one realizes: 'I am what I was before', 'I am Thou; Thou art I'.
"As long as that covering remains, the Vedantic formula 'I am He', that is, man is the
Supreme Brahman, does not rightly apply. The wave is part of the water, but the water is
not part of the wave. As long as that covering remains, one should call on God as Mother.
Addressing God, the devotee should say, 'Thou art the Mother and I am Thy child; Thou art
the Master and I am Thy servant.' It is good to have the attitude of the servant toward the
master. From this relationship of master and servant spring up other attitudes: the attitude
of serene love for God, the attitude of friend toward friend, and so forth. When the master
loves his servant, he may say to him, 'Come, sit by my side; there is no difference between
you and me.' But if the servant comes forward of his own will to sit by the master, will not
the master be angry?
"God's play on earth as an Incarnation is the manifestation of the glory of the Chitsakti, the
Divine Power. That which is Brahman is also Rama, Krishna, and Siva."
ISHAN: "Yes, sir. Both Hari and Hara are derived from the same root. The difference lies
only in the pratyaya."
MASTER: "Yes, there is only One without a second. The Vedas speak of It as 'Om
Satchidananda Brahma', the Puranas as 'Om Satchidananda Krishna,' and the Tantra as 'Om
Satchidananda Siva'.
"The Chitsakti, as Mahamaya, has deluded all with ignorance. It is said in the Adhyatma
Ramayana that when the rishis saw Rama, they prayed to Him in these words only: 'O
Rama, please do not delude us with Your world-bewitching maya.' "
Continued....
Friends,
The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...
ISHAN: "What is this maya?"
MASTER: "Whatever you see, think, or hear is maya. In a word, 'woman and gold' is the
covering of maya.
"There is no harm in chewing betel-leaf, eating fish, smoking, or rubbing the body with oil.
What will one achieve by renouncing only these things? The one thing needful is the
renunciation of 'woman and gold'. That renunciation is the real and supreme renunciation.
Householders should go into solitude now and then, to practise spiritual discipline in order
to cultivate devotion to God; they should renounce mentally. But the sannyasi should
renounce both mentally and physically.
"I once said to Keshab, 'How can a typhoid patient be cured if he remains in a room where
a pitcher of water and a jar of pickles are kept?' Now and then one should live in solitude ".
A DEVOTEE: "Sir, what do you think of the Navavidhan? It seems to me like a hotchpotch
of everything."
MASTER: "Some say it is a modern thing. That sets me wondering: 'Then is the God of the
Brahmo Samaj a new God?' The Brahmos speak of their cult as the Navavidhan, as a New
Dispensation. Well, it may be so. Who knows? There are six systems of philosophy; so
perhaps it is like one of these.
But do you know where those who speak of the formless God make their mistake? It is
where they say that God is formless only, and that those who differ with them are wrong.
But I know that God is both with and without form. And He may have many more aspects.
It is possible for Him to be everything.
Namaskar.
Could easily transport you to another world:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOY-qhg7kdk&feature=related
-z
"Bhagavan said that on very rare occasions (when the disciple is very mature) the Self within can be the Guru who grants liberation, but that in all other cases the Self must manifest in the form of the Guru to do its liberating work."
That's my experience. The necessity of a Guru.
Friends,
An excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,where the Master visits a circus.
Wednesday, November 15, 1882
Master at the circus
Sri Ramakrishna, accompanied by Rakhal and several other devotees, came to Calcutta in a
carriage and called for M. at the school where he was teaching. Then they all set out for the
Maidan. Sri Ramakrishna wanted to see the Wilson Circus. As the carriage rolled along the
crowded Chitpore Road, his joy was very great. Like a little child he leaned first out of one
side of the carriage and then out of the other, talking to himself as if addressing the passersby.
To M. he said: "I find the attention of the people fixed on earthly things. They are all
rushing about for the sake of their stomachs. No one is thinking of God."
They arrived at the circus. Tickets for the cheapest seats were purchased. The devotees took
the Master to a high gallery, and they all sat on a bench. He said joyfully: "Ha! This is a
good place. I can see the show well from here." There were exhibitions of various feats. A
horse raced around a circular track over which large iron rings were hung at intervals. The
circus rider, an Englishwoman, stood on one foot on the horse's back, and as the horse
passed under the rings, she jumped through them, always alighting on one foot on the
horse's back. The horse raced around the entire circle, and the woman never missed the
horse or lost her balance.
When the circus was over, the Master and the devotees stood outside in the field, near the
carriage. Since it was a cold night he covered his body with his green shawl.
Necessity of spiritual discipline
Sri Ramakrishna said to M.: "Did you see how that Englishwoman stood on one foot on her
horse, while it ran like lightning? How difficult a feat that must be! She must have practised
a long time. The slightest carelessness and she would break her arms or legs; she might
even be killed. One faces the same difficulty leading the life of a householder. A few
succeed in it through the grace of God and as a result of their spiritual practice. But most
people fail. Entering the world, they become more and more involved in it; they drown in
worldliness and suffer the agonies of death. A few only, like Janaka, have succeeded,
through the power of their austerity, in leading the spiritual life as householders. Therefore
spiritual practice is extremely necessary; otherwise one cannot rightly live in the world."
Namaskar.
Friends,
One of the interesting chapters in the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna is where Dr Sarkar converses with the Master;how he challenges him and questions him.Here is an excerpt:
Master:"There are signs of Perfect Knowledge. One is that reasoning comes to an end. As I have
just said, the butter sizzles and crackles as long as it is not thoroughly boiled."
Doctor: "But can one retain Perfect Knowledge permanently? You say that all is God. Then
why have you taken up this profession of a paramahamsa? And why do these people attend
on you? Why don't you keep silent?"
MASTER (smiling): "Water is water whether it is still or moves or breaks into waves.
The story of the "māhut Narayana"
"I must tell you something else. Why should I not listen to the 'mahut Narayana'? The guru
had taught his disciple that everything was Narayana . A mad elephant was coming toward
the disciple, but he did not move away since he believed the guru's words. He thought that
the elephant was Narayana . The mahut shouted to him: 'Get away! Get away!' But the
disciple did not move. The elephant picked him up and threw him to the ground. The
disciple was not quite dead; when his face was sprinkled with water he regained
consciousness. Being asked why he had not moved away, he said: 'why should I? The guru
said, "Everything is Narayana."' 'But, my child,' said the Guru, 'Why didn't you listen to the
words of the mahut Narayana ?'
"It is God who dwells within as the Pure Mind and Pure Intelligence. I am the machine and
He is its Operator. I am the house and He is the Indweller. It is God who is the mahut
Narayana."
DOCTOR: "Let me ask you something. Why do you ask me to cure your illness?"
MASTER: "I talk that way as long as I am conscious of the 'jar' of the 'ego'. Think of a vast
ocean filled with water on all sides. A jar is immersed in it. There is water both inside and
outside the jar; but the water does not become one unless the jar is broken. It is God who
has kept this 'jar' of the 'ego' in me."
DOCTOR: "What is the meaning of 'ego' and all that you are talking about? You must
explain it to me. Do you mean to say that God is playing tricks on us?"
GIRISH: "Sir, how do you know that He is not playing tricks?"
MASTER (smiling): "It is God who has kept this 'ego' in us. All this is His play, His Lila. A
king has four sons. They are all princes; but when they play, one becomes a minister,
another a police officer, and so on. Though a prince, he plays as a police officer.
(To the doctor) "Listen. If you realize Atman you will see the truth of all I have said. All
doubts disappear after the vision of God."
DOCTOR: "But is it ever possible to get rid of all doubts?"
MASTER: "Learn from me as much as I have told you. But if you want to know more, you
must pray to God in solitude. Ask Him why He has so ordained.
"The son of the house can give a beggar only a small measure of rice. But if the beggar asks
for his train fare, then the master of the house must be called."
The doctor remained silent.
Namaskar.
Friends,
The process of Neti-Neti is known but just when and where it becomes effective is highlighted in this excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.One of the most endearing things about Sri Ramakrishna is how in his presence everyone felt free to express himself as an equal:
Illusion persists
MASTER: "But it is not easy to get rid of illusion. It lingers even after the attainment of
Knowledge. A man dreamt of a tiger. Then he woke up and his dream vanished. But his
heart continued to palpitate.
"Some thieves came to a field. A straw figure resembling a man had been put there to
frighten intruders. The thieves were scared by the figure and could not persuade themselves
to enter the field. One of them, however, approached and found that it was only a figure
made of straw. He came back to his companions and said, 'There is nothing to be afraid of.'
But still they refused to go; they said that their hearts were beating fast. Then the daring
thief laid the figure on the ground and said, 'It is nothing, it is nothing.' This is the process
of 'Neti, neti'."
DOCTOR: "These are fine words."
MASTER (smiling): "What kind of words?"
DOCTOR: "Fine."
MASTER: "Then give me a 'Thank you'." [The Master said the words "thank you" in
English.]
DOCTOR: "Don't you know what is in my mind? I go to so much trouble to come and visit
you!"
MASTER (smiling): "No, it is not that. Say something for the good of the ignorant. After
the death of Ravana , his brother Bibhishana refused to be king of Ceylon! He said: 'O
Rama, I have obtained You. What shall I do with kingship?' Rama said: 'Bibhishana, be
king for the sake of the ignorant, for those who might ask what riches you have gained by
serving Me so much. Be king to give them a lesson."
DOCTOR: "Are there such ignorant people here?"
MASTER (smiling): "Oh, yes! Here you will find oysters and snails as well as conchs."
(All laugh.)
Doctor Sarkar, who was a homeopath, gave Sri Ramakrishna two globules of medicine. He
said, "I am giving you these two globules: one is Purusha and the other is Prakriti." (All
laugh,)
MASTER (smiling): "Oh yes, Purusha and Prakriti are always together. Haven't you
observed pigeons? The male and female cannot live separately. Wherever Purusha is, there
is Prakriti, and wherever Prakriti is, there is Purusha."
It was Vijaya day. Sri Ramakrishna asked Dr. Sarkar to have some refreshments. The
devotees served him with sweets.
DOCTOR (while eating): "Now I say 'Thank you' for the sweets; but it is not for your
teachings. Why should I give that 'Thank you' in words?"
MASTER (smiling): "The essential thing is to fix the mind on God and to practise
meditation a little. What more shall I say? (Pointing to the younger Naren) Look at him. His
mind totally merges in God. Those things I was telling you-"
DOCTOR: "Tell the others also."
MASTER: "No, a man should be given food according to his power of digestion. Can all
understand what I told you? I cannot talk to everyone as I talked to you. Suppose a mother
has bought a fish for the family. All her children have not the same power of digestion. For
some she makes pilau and for others she makes stew. These latter have weak stomachs."
(All laugh.)
Dr. Sarkar took his leave. It was Vijaya day, when people show their love and respect to
their friends and elders with appropriate greetings. The devotees all prostrated themselves
before Sri Ramakrishna and took the dust of his feet. Then they embraced one another.
Their joy knew no bounds. The Master was seriously ill, but he made them all forget about
his illness.
Namaskar.
Dear Scott,
As you keep up your sadhana, on attaining enough maturity, the Guru
will come in search of you, on his own. This is what had happened in the case of Saint Manikkavachagar
and Tiru Jnana Sambandhar. For the former, the guru came in the guise of a brahmin [Siva] in Tiruperundurai and for Jnana Sambandha, Siva and Uma came when he was just three years old. For Sri Bhagavan, when some visitor came to his house and told ARUNACHALAM, when asked wherefrom he was coming. This unknown visitor was His guru and ARUNACHALAM was the goal [Self]
to be attained.
Dear Ravi,
Very nice. When the glimpse of the
Self is realized first, then the nithya and naimittika karmas will drop away as the mud that has stuck on your sole drops off, as the sun dries it.
Once Annamalai Swami told Sri
Bhagavan: I am having frequent
stomach pains. [thinking that Sri
Bhagavan would mention some medicines.] Sri Bhagavan, however,
replied:
"What to do? This body is itself a big disease. Only to cure this, one has to remain Summa. All diseases will first come and go [death will come finally]. You are telling me. To whom can I tell my diseases?"
{SRI RAMANA NINAIVUGAL - ANNAMALAI SWAMI]
It was a cold winter season in Tiruvannamalai, unusually cold.
One night there was no electricity.
Petromax lights were lighted. Then
the devotees noticed that two sparrows were sitting in front of petromax light and warming themselves. Sri Bhagavan's attendant
wanted to close the windows of the Hall to ward off cold draft which was blowing. Sri Bhagavan stopped the attendant by saying: "No. don't
close the windows! These sparrows have come to protect themselves from the cold. For them, there
are no blankets as we have. Let them stay here. Whenever they want to fly out, they can go out through the windows. Do not trouble them." So saying, Sri Bhagavan showed His solicitude for the sparrows. Sri Bhagavan had "Sama bhavanam" for all creatures high or low. He would say: "The sparrows have also the same Consciousness, Atma, like human beings. Only the forms are different."
[BHAGAVAN RAMANA - THE FRIEND OF ALL]
"Visions are not external. They appear only internally. If external, they could assert themselves without there being a seer. In that case, what is the warrant for their existence? The seer only."
Is the vision independent of the seer? We know that it is not. Then how can it be real? The reality must be self sufficient, substantive, wholly dependent upon itself, and must be present at all times. But visions are not only temporary, but also depend on the qualities and abilities of the mind of their seer. Therefore, all visions are false.
"With the Self-realization real and incessant tapas results. With their maturing of such tapas, some Jnanis can make their bodies intangible and invisible., These are known as Siddhas."
This is very important to note. Tapas does not mean here the austerities that precede Realization, but the inherence in the Self AFTER realization.
Ramana Gita says in this connection: "He who is fixed in Sahaja state is in automatic and incessant tapas." [xi.18]. Again:
"The pristine nature of the Self is effortless, spontaneous tapas. Incessant tapas of this kind leads to the manifestation of all powers." [xi. 24]. This immediately draws a clear line between a siddha Rishi and a 'clairvoyant', a magician, or a miracle-worker whom we sometimes meet in this country and who have no Jnana, as it is shown by the display of their trade far and wide and by their superficial teaching, if they have any.
[REFLECTIONS ON TALKS - S.S. COHEN].
"In TiruviLaiyadal Puranam, there is a chapter on the eight fold siddhis. There Siva says that His bhaktas never waste a thought on them. Again Siva says that He never grants boons. The desires of the devotees are fulfilled according to their prarabdha only. When Iswara Himself says so, what of others? In order to display siddhi there must be others to recognize it, which means that there is no Jnana in the person who displays siddhis. Therefore, these are not worthy of any thought. Jnana alone must be aimed at."
This evidence of Siva against siddhis must be taken very seriously. For here He is in His Highest Form, as the Supreme Yogi, the Spirit and Soul of the universe, which is Pure Consciousness and Bliss. The Tantriks, the Kaulas in particular, aim at siddhis, which they mistake for the highest spiritual achievement, and their Master and Giver of siddhis and of all boons is this very Siva with His Consort Devi, also called Bhairvai. The Jnana-seeker takes the former Siva as his ideal and guide. Hence His repudiation of siddhis and boons in TiruviLaiyadal Puranam, is of great significance to him.
[Reflections on Talks - S.S. Cohen.]
Sendhanar's Tiruvisaippa [Book IX
of Saiva Canons], has got one composition of 11 verses on Tiruvidaikazhi. Tiruvidaikazhi is in Nagappatinam District, near Tirukadavur [famous for Abhirami Bhattar's story]. This town is
famous for Muruga Temple, where Muruga is waiting for VaLLi under one Kura tree, wearing Kura flower garlands. Actually Muruga here is seen as Kumara Sivam, in Siva's form. Nataraja, Somaskanda, Chandrasekara in all his images, Siva is appearing as Muruga with Vel [javelin]!
Sendhanar's verse 3 speaks of this Muruga-Siva form.
Kovinai pavaLak kuzhamana kola...
My Lord, with shining coral form, in his marriage outfit, with all servitors around him, has a rooster flag. He is the guard for me with all his army. How can he steal my golden waist band? He is my Master, sweeter than honey, he is Tiruvidaikazhi, under Kura tree! He also has got the great peacock as his vehicle! He is Subramanian!
Incidentally Tiruvidaikazi is sung in all 12 Saiva Canons and also
by Arunagiri Natha in 8 Tiruppugazh songs. Mahavidvan Meenakshi Sundaram Pillai has written a work Tirukura Kumaran Pillai Tamizh. Pillai Tamizh is a type of composition where the god is eulogized as a child.
There is one phrase, Kodinilai, KaanthanL, VaLLi.. in Sangam literature, which means Kura Tree, KaanthaL flower garland, VaLLi, the jivatma.
Rumi Quotes:
------------
Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.
The way you make love
is the way God will be with you.
Let the beauty we love be what we do.
Thirst drove me down to the water where I drank the moon's reflection.
We rarely hear the inward music, but we're all dancing to it nevertheless.
The middle path is the way to wisdom.
The intelligent want self-control; children want candy.
People of the world don't look at themselves, and so they blame one another.
You think the shadow is the substance.
-z
Z, Thank you for the Rumi quote. It was beautiful, yes most beautiful.
glow
Friends,
A month or so back there was a discussion on who is the 'karta' in karthurAgnaya prApyathE phalam,the opening verse of upadesa sAram.Here is an excerpt from 'The Letters from Sri Ramanasramam':
11th August, 1946
(57) KARTHURAGNAYA PRAPYATHE
PHALAM
(FRUITS OF ACTIONS ARE ORDAINED
BY THE CREATOR)
About ten months ago, Krishna Bhikshu wrote to me
saying that he was thinking of gifting away his property to his
brothers and then taking to sannyasa and going about the
country, hoping thereby to get peace of mind, and that he
was wondering what Bhagavan would say about it. I informed
Bhagavan about this letter. Bhagavan first said, “Is that so?
Has he finally decided?” and after a while remarked,
“Everything happens according to each individual’s karma.”
When I wrote to him about this, Krishna Bhikshu replied:
“It is said that ‘Karthuragnaya Prapyathe Phalam, fruits of actions
are ordained by the Creator.’ What has become of the
Creator?” I was disinclined to tell Bhagavan about this, and
was considering what to write in reply. Meantime, one devotee
asked Bhagavan, “In ‘Karthuragnaya Prapyathe Phalam’ who is
the karta?” Bhagavan said, “karta is Ishwara. He is the one
who distributes the fruits of actions to each person according
to his karma. That means He is Saguna Brahman. The real
Brahman is nirguna (attributeless) and without motion. It is
only Saguna Brahman that is named as Ishwara. He gives the
phala (fruits) to each person according to his karma (actions).
That means that Ishwara is only an Agent. He gives wages
according to the labour done. That is all. Without that sakti
(power) of Ishwara, this karma (action) will not take place.
That is why karma is said to be jadam (inert).”
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from 'The Letters from Sri Ramanasramam':
13th August, 1946
(59) YATHECHHA (AS ONE DESIRES)
During the early days of my arrival at the Ashram, there
was a Vaisya boy living here. His hair was matted without
being attended to. He used to get food from charitable house
holders, and sleep in the Arunachala Temple at night. His
mother came to the Ashram and pressed him to return home,
and so he ran away to Pandharpur. He was her only son.
They had plenty of property. The boy was a sort of wandering
beggar, a bairagi, who would say that he did not want
anything. When that mother related her woeful story to
Bhagavan and sought his help, Bhagavan tried to prevail
upon the boy, once or twice, to listen to the mother’s words.
He did not listen, but instead, he ran away.
He came again during last month. He was keeping away
from others, sitting in a corner of the hall. You may call it
sadhana or whatever you like. Except that his hair was no
longer matted there was no other change in his routine or
appearance. Bhagavan was observing him continuously. The
boy did not speak. After fifteen days, Rajagopala Iyer, who
had retired from his job and come back to his library work
in the Ashram, happened to come to the hall and noticing
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 101
the Vaisya boy, said to Bhagavan, “This boy appears to have
returned from Pandharpur. His mother left her address,
didn’t she, requesting us to write to her in case he came
back?”
Bhagavan said, “Yes, he has come back. That was about
fifteen days ago. I have been observing him. He does not
speak. So, how then could I ask him ‘What is Pandharpur
like? Where is the prasadam, etc.?’ We have to conduct
ourselves according to the workings of the minds of others.
We are in duty bound to adjust ourselves thus.” People of
intelligence examine their own minds. There is no knowing
about the minds of others. Bhagavan says that he has to
adjust himself according to the desires and intentions of
others! See what a great precept that is!
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
A sadhu was staying at the Panchavati. But he was a hot-tempered man; he scolded and
cursed everyone. He came to the Master's room wearing wooden sandals and asked the
Master, "Can I get fire here?" Sri Ramakrishna saluted him and stood with folded hands as
long as he remained in the room.
When he had left, Bhavanath said to the Master with a laugh, "What great respect you
showed the sadhu!"
MASTER (smiling): "You see, he too is Narayana, though full of tamas. This is the way
one should please people who have an excess of tamas. Besides, he is a sadhu."
Namaskar.
Today is Maha Sivaratri. In the Asramam, there will be special pujas during the day and night long bhajans.
Where to start about wonderful poems on Siva. I have been writing on
Tevaram and Tiruvachakam of and on.
Sri Sankara - he is a giant. What to pick up from him? Siva Manasa Puja! It is a rare composition treating Siva as a three or four old boy and doing bathing, clothing, ornamenting, applying fragrance and then feeding and singing for his happiness.
Ratnai kalpita asanam himajalai... He is made to sit on a ruby seat and cool Himachala waters are used for bathing him. Here, we can add Tiruporchunnam of Manikkavachagar, fragrant soapnut powder with golden spangles. Take that and make a paste and apply on Siva's head, face, limbs and chest and back and give a nice bath....
Snananja divyambaram... Nice clothes. No tiger skin and elephant's skin. Nice silken dhoti and a silken upper cloth.
[Then comb his hair after putting some nice hair oil. Apply vibhuti..}
Nanaratna vibhushitam, mruga matha
modhangitham santhanam.... All sorts of ornaments. Ear studs; bangles on the shoulders. bangles on wrists, necklaces, again bangles on the ankle, waist belt golden and ruby studded. Then punugu, kasturi, sandal paste.
Jathi chamapaka bhilva batra
rachitam pushapancha... Jasmine, champaka flowers and bhilva garlands.
Then dhoopam, dheepam...All in imaginations, where will that sannyasi go for all these materials?
Then the food. Enough of halahala poison. I shall give him nice food, payasam in ruby studded bowl, five sorts of food, milk, curds, ghee, and then plantain fruits. Cool water with fragrant pachai kalpura. Then thamboolam.
O My Lord take these. My boy take these....
contd.
Musings on Maha Sivaratri contd.,
Siva manasa puja, contd.
Then, should I send him to school?
What school? What nursery class?
He is the goal of all schools!
No school for him, only songs and dance.
In the garden, place a golden umbrella. Make a seat for him and ask him to sit. Fan him with nice fans made of choicest fibres. The atmosphere is serene. Then slowly the Veena music starts, then the drum and mrudangam. Then nice songs, Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai, Sivanananda Lahari etc., Then dances, dances on the theme of 64 holy sports in Madurai....
Then prostrate before him, like a stick. Praise him. Eulogize him. All in my imaginations.
Then comes the pinnacle stanza on Advaitam. Saranagati.
You are the Atma. Girija, the daughter of Himavan is my intellect. The ingoing and outgoing breath are your servants. All my worldly enjoyments are pujas for you. Sleep is my samadhi. All my roaming around for good and bad purposes are pradakshina for you. All my words are songs for you. Whatever I do, are all aradhana for you.
Please forgive me, [Sri Sankara says this.. where are we to go?] for all my sins through hands, feet, speech, deeds, through my hearing, seeing, through my monkey-mind. O Sambo, Mahadeva,
forgive me for all that, Victory to you, Hara, Hara....
The whole thing is a pageant. But such pageants should bring tears into our eyes. He can take any thing as puja for him. Did not Hunter Kannappa give his sandal, water from his mouth, tasted meat piece, and jungle flowers for puja?
MUSINGS ON MAHA SIVARATRI: [3]
From that sober, serene Sri Sankara, let us come to one militant lady, an ardent Siva devotee. She roamed naked in the forests of Sri Sailam, with leaves around her waist and on her breasts. She is Akka Mahadevi, Elder Sister, Mahadevi. She is one of the 4 four pioneering stalwarts of Veera Saiva movement in Karnataka. She sang many vachana sahitya, free blank verses on Siva, often militantly diabolic.
A few sample verses. Tr. A.K. Ramanujan, former Prof. of Philosophy and Comparative Religions in University of Chicago.
I love the Handsome One;
he has no death,
decay nor form
no place or side
no end nor birthmarks.
I love him, O Mother, Listen.
I love the Beautiful One
with no bond nor fear
no clan no land
no landmarks
for his beauty.
So my Lord, white as Jasmine*, is my husband.
Take these husbands who die,
decay, and feed them
to your kitchen fires!
[*Jasmine - Lord of creeping Jasmine, Channa Mallikarujuna of
Sri Sailam]
MUSINGS ON MAHA SIVARATRI; (4)
Akka Mahadevi contd.
I have Maya for mother-in-law;
the world for father-in-law;
three brothers - in - law*, like tigers.
And the husband's thoughts
are full of laughing women;
no god, this man.
And I cannot cross the sister-in-law,**
But I will
give this wench the slip
and go cuckold my husband with
Hara, my Lord.
My mind is my maid;
by her kindness I join
my Lord,
my utterly beautiful Lord
from the mountain peaks,
my lord white as Jasmine,
and I will make Him
my good husband!
* three gunas
** death.
MUSINGS ON MAHA SIVARATRI (5)
Akka Mahadevi - contd.
Listen, sister, listen,
I had a dream
I saw rice, betel, palm-leaf
and coconut.
I saw an ascetic
come to beg,
white teeth and small matted curls.
I followed on his heels,
and held his hand,
he who goes breaking
all bounds and beyond.
I saw the Lord, white as jasmine,
and woke wide open.
*
Other men are thorn
under the smooth leaf.
I cannot touch them,
go near them, nor trust them,
nor speak to them confidences.
Mother,
because they have all thorns
in their chests,
I cannot take
any man in my arms but my Lord,
White as Jasmine.
*
He bartered my heart,
looted my flesh,
claimed as tribute
my pleasure
took over
all of me.
I'm the woman of love
for my Lord, white as Jasmine.
MUSINGS ON MAHA SIVARATRI: (6)
Basvanna or Basaveswara:
He was born in brahmin caste. Was a minister in Mysore Palace. Revolted against orthodox brahminism and started the Veera Saiva movement in Bhasava Kalayan, a place near Kudligi, where two rivers, Kaveri and Tungabhadra meet.
Like a monkey on a tree,
it leaps from branch to branch,
how can I believe or trust
this burning things, this heart?
It will not let me go
to my Father,
my Lord of the meeting rivers!*
[Siva in Kudligi, Karnataka]
*
Like a cow fallen into a quagmkire
I make mouths at this corner and that,
no one to look for me
or find me,
till my Lord sees this beast
and lifts him out by the thorns.
*
Cripple me, father,
that I may not no go here and there.
Blind me, father,
that I may not look at this and that.
Deafen me, father,
that I may not hear anything else.
Keep me
at your men's feet
looking for nothing else,
O Lord of the meeting rivers!
*
Don't make hear all day
'Whose man, whose man, whose man is this?'
Let me hear, 'This man is mine, mine, this man is mine.'
O Lord of the meeting rivers,
make me feel I'm a son
of the house.
*
As a mother runs
close behind her child
with his hand on a cobra
or a fire,
the Lord of the meeting rivers,
stays with me
every step of the way,
and looks after me.
Friends,
An excerpt from 'At the Feet of Bhagavan' by Sri T K Sundaresa iyer:
THE TEACHING IN SILENCE
IT was a Sivaratri Day. The evening worships at the
Mother’s shrine were over. The devotees had their dinner
with Sri Bhagavan, who was now on His seat, the devotees
at His feet sitting around Him.
At 8 p.m. one of the Sadhus stood up, did pranam
(offered obeisance), and with folded hands prayed: “Today
is the Sivaratri Day; we should be highly blessed by Sri
Bhagavan expounding to us the meaning of the Hymn to
Dakshinamurti (stotra).” Says Bhagavan: “Yes, sit down.”
The Sadhu sat, and all eagerly looked at Sri Bhagavan
and Sri Bhagavan looked at them. Sri Bhagavan sat and
sat in His usual pose, no, poise. No words, no movement,
and all was stillness! He sat still, and all sat still, waiting.
The clock went on striking, nine, ten, eleven, twelve,
one, two and three. Sri Bhagavan sat and they sat. Stillness,
calmness, motionlessness — not conscious of the body,
of space or time.
Thus eight hours were passed in Peace, in Silence, in
Being, as It is. Thus was the Divine Reality taught through
the speech of Silence by Bhagavan Sri Ramana
Dakshinamurthy.
At the stroke of 4 a.m. Sri Bhagavan quietly said:
“And now have you known the essence of the
Dakshinamurti Hymn”? All the devotees stood and made
pranam to the holy Form of the Guru in the ecstasy of
their Being.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Wonderful. It is Silence of the immortal Guru. Like the causeless
Sri Dakshinamurty, He spoke Silence, and the disciples had no doubts to get cleared.
Sri Bhagavan has rendered Sri Dakshinamury Stotram of Sri Sankara, in 11 verses in beautiful Tamizh. Once He told that He wanted to write an elaborate treatise on Sri Dakshinamurty Stotram. However, He did not do that work.
Kunju Swami also mentions this story of Sri Bhagavan and disciples
on a Sivaratri night. At 5 'O clock so, Sri Bhagavan says, "Okay, let us take coffee!"
Eternal vigil and total silence are the aim of Sri Dakshinamurty Storam.
Muruganar says in Guru Vachaka Kovai, Verse 459:
Through the destruction of the doltish ego, the triputis that are based on it fade away and end,
along with Sakala. The pure state of daylight that then shines for ever is Sivaratri. [Eng.Tr. David
Godman]
He placed his sandal on your head. That became a pure koorcham. He then spat his mouthful of water on your image. It became an abulation with Ganga water. He then gave you the tasted meat. It became the pure naivedyam. Then placed the forest flowers from his ears upon your chest.
O Siva, what is that that can be impure in a sublime state of bhakti?
Sri Sivananada Lahari.
Thanks Ravi for the clarification of the Karta.What is the action in the context here:
A)The action of ordaining( for eg:ordainment to fight war)
B)The action itself(fighting the war)
Ofcourse if the action is (A) then the karta is Eeshawara but if it is (B) then I am not sure; it depends how one sees it; in one perspective the Karta is Jiva i.e Arjuna.
I suspecting Bhagawan is talking about the 'action of ordaining'.
To people who work in big offices we have regular appraisals.There are detailed rules and in many cases a scoring system as to how to cmplete the appraisal/review of an employee by his manager.The employee will get his increment/promotion etc or even next project assignment(re-incarnation) depending on how well the employee fared according to the rules of appraisement.But the power to judge/apply these rules rests with the manager.Part of the appraisement in big companies is also goal mapping i.e one has to select a stream(management, administration,technical,HR,Finance etc) into which one would like to progress in the next few years.All these forms finally go to the deciding manager.He will ordain the next project and role in that project taking into account A) Our previous track record-Sanchita Karma(B)Our Personal Goals-Active Desires(C)Company Goals-goals of that specific loka (D)World economy-Yuga.
Managers are supposed to make many adjustments in deciding but always within the 'Rules of Appraisal'. For eg: In times when the economy is booming they yield to the higher salary demands of new recruits.Temporarily in that year the new recruit might enjoy more salary than their equivalents who have joined the company many years ago.But managers over the years are supposed to normalize the salary of the new recruit with that of the old employees but always within the rules.
Such is the case I think with Karma ordainment and Eeshwara.I think Bhagawan is trying to say just like the manager dishes out your next project and role in it keeping in mind the objectives of the company(loka), general economy(cycle) and personal objectives(jiva) and any other adjustments necessary but always withing the 'Rules of Appraisal'.So here the Manager is seen as the real boss(Sentient) and not the 'Rules of Appraisal' or 'your work record in the past'(karma).To the employee(jiva) the manager appears as Sentient because he is ignorant of the factors that a manager has take into account in ordaining the next role like company objectives, world economic situation and the like.
[contd...]
-z
[contd..]
Ultimately though(I hate the word ultimate) given the foreknowledge of all the situations to come and the knowledge of the potential of all Jivas; Eeshwara's ordainment can only be predictable/mechanical/insentient like a super computer. So 'Ultimately' he too is Jada.But the word 'Ultimately' is really out of 'Time and Space'.So for all practical purposes as long as we have a mind(Time and space) Eeshwara's existence and his ordainment are the 'Words' that we use for purposes of discussion and explaination of the phenomena.It is wrong to say 'Eeshwara' is All Knowing', 'All Knowledgable' or 'All Pervading'.Eeshwara may be capable of that but is not.Eeshwara has minute levels of Maala/Ignorance' which makes him sentient and Jiva major levels to treat him as master.Out of that minute levels of Ignorance or self-consciousness spring Compassion, Love,Ichcha Sakthi etc.Dynamic, Sentientness are the words we use to explain ignorance.The analogy of going to cinema with a friend who has already watched it previously; which I posted in the past; is an excellent example to describe Sentientness.Sentienness or Thrill comes out of the suspense of the next turn in the story line.At the end of the movie the Sentientness does n't exist.
Hence one of my passing moods to Eeshwara is neither acknowledgement nor denial and sometimes servant.It is natural.
Bhagawan begins with Eeshwara and his ordainment but also talks about 'Ultimately'.
Needless to say all the above is just my mind ramblings written on the go and without proof reading as ever.So feel free to criticize, commnet.
-z
It is surprising, I didn’t realise there are so many who have “woken up”! A little internet research and I’ve found many in the “non-dual” stream making this claim.
Jeff Foster (link here) is apparently “awake”.
Jeff says the right things, and I ‘suspect’ he has at least had a “glimpse”. Of course, I cannot verify this.
It was interesting to hear Jeff speak about his despair and yearning pre waking up.
Nevertheless,
it reminds me that I MUST MUST MUST, find this (or, not find this, if you prefer!) for myself.
None, can do it for me.
Regards
z/Friends,
Here is the sequel to the post on karturAjnayA,where nAgamma adds her bit of musing,which is quite interesting and correct as well:
What else could be the reply to the question of Krishna
Bhikshu? So I wrote accordingly to him. With the supernatural
powers of his sandals, Vikramarka went to Brahma Loka, the
world of Brahma, whereupon Brahma, being pleased, told
him to ask for a boon. Vikramarka said, “Lord, the Sastras
loudly proclaim that when you create living beings you write
on their foreheads their future life according to the results of
their actions in past lives. Now you say that you will give me a
boon. Will you rub out what has already been written on my
forehead, and write afresh? Or will you correct it by
overwriting? What exactly is done?” Brahma was pleased at
his intelligent question and said with a smile, “Nothing new is
done now. That which was already preordained according to
the karma of beings, comes out of my mouth. We merely say,
‘Yes, we have given you the boon.’ That is all. Nothing is given
anew. Not knowing that, people do penances for boons at our
hands. As you are an intelligent person, you have found out
the secret. I am very happy.” So saying he presented
Vikramarka with Brahmastram and sent him away. I remember
having read this story in my younger days.
In the tenth canto of Bhagavata, the same idea was given
in the exhortation of Lord Krishna to Nanda: to give up the
performance of a sacrifice to God Indra.
Namaskar.
z,
What is action and what is not?who acts and who acts not?He who knows this is a jnani.This is what Sri Ramakrishna says(from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna):
There is fire in the hearth; therefore the
rice and pulse and potatoes and the other vegetables jump about in the pot. They jump
about as if to say: 'We are here! We are jumping!' This body is the pot. The mind and
intelligence are the water. The objects of the senses are the rice, potatoes, and other
vegetables. The 'I-consciousness' identified with the senses says, 'I am jumping about.' And
Satchidananda is the fire.
As ThAkur says, it is the Fire who is the real doer although apparently all doing is associated with the rice,potatoes,etc.The trajectory of each of the items in the pot is related to the forces acting on it at every moment-and all movements although apparently random are still defined and limited.
The Self alone is sentient and any other object along with the 'action' associated with it is jada-the action does not make it sentient,although it appears so.
The dakshinamurthy hymn of Sri sankara:
Mouna Vyakhya prakatitha, para,
Brahma thathwam yuvanam,
Varshishtha anthevasad rishiganai,
Ravrutham brahma nishtai,
Acharyendram kara kalihtha chin,
Mudram ananda roopam,
Swathmaramam mudhitha vadanam,
Dakshinamurthim eede.
I praise and salute that Dakshinamrthy,
Who faces the south,
Who explains the true nature of the supreme Brahman,
Through his state of silence,
Who is young in looks,
Who is surrounded by disciples who are old Sages,
Whose minds are fixed on Brahman,
Who is the greatest of teachers,
Who shows the Chinmudhra by his hand,
Who is personification of happiness,
Who is in the state of extreme joy within himself,
And who has a smiling face.
Self is what is forever new and young and mind with its memory as a depository of experiences is forever old.
In your annual appraisal analogy,both the manager and the employee are on the same level only-that the manager's performance depends on the employee's performance.The 'karta' is not part of the system and hence he is the master of action.action takes place as he has willed it,so to say-this is his ajnya.
continued....
Yes Yes Ravi. This was one of my doubts stuckups for many months.In the Shirdi Sai Sat Charithra he tells one of his devotees that he has granted him a boon of a child and explicitly tells him that children were not in his prarabdha but Sai was changing that and a child prodigy was born to that devotee who died as a teenager.
I always wondered if changing prarabdha was also in the prarabdha of that devotee or is this me being Doubtng Thomas.There is no way to know this.That is why way back I posted it would have been nice if Robert Adams was asked at what point does he know/say it is all pre-destined.I also posted the story of why Eeshwara would change the destiny of Maarkandeya Rishi if he was All Knowing.I also posted if Grace is automatic/predictable how can it be called Grace.If Grace is questionable then Guru goes.What am I left with?I am responsible for all my karma and God is Fear and Hope.There are no shortcuts and I have to slave it hard myself.This is leading one into Buddha's world.But if Shradhdha and Saburi is in one's chemical then that could lead such a one to the path of Ravana.But now and again life is hard and as a dying man catches straw God comes back into my family every now and then.Such is my predicament.All these questions, bloody boring and old and the same questions that have been asked since the beginning.They are not new and the answers are all there and it is quite silly that this old film is played again and again.
This topic is not an intellectual curiosity but a question that hangs at the very heart of Eeshwara.
So Ravi, knowing the story of Vikramarka why do you recommend Bhakthi to us?
By the way let me repeat the most beautiful words of Robert Adams on this:[Not exact words but close]:
***
There is nothing you can do about it(meaning it is all predestined) and yet you have to try to do something about it(effort).That is the game.Dont try to figure it out; you cant; just play it.
***
Ravi, where does this leave you as a Bhaktha.In the past you also said there is a difference in my Christmas santa analogy and a Saint.Could you also write about that.
-z
z,
For the nature of 'Ajnya',this is the excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Reassurance to householders
"It is as if the Divine Mother said to the human mind in confidence, with a sign from Her
eye, 'Go and enjoy the world.' How can one blame the mind? The mind can disentangle
itself from worldliness if, through Her grace, She makes it turn toward Herself. Only then
does it become devoted to the Lotus Feet of the Divine Mother."
Whereupon Sri Ramakrishna, taking upon himself, as it were, the agonies of all
householders, sang a song complaining to the Divine Mother:
Mother, this is the grief that sorely grieves my heart,
That even with Thee for Mother, and though I am wide awake,
There should be robbery in my house.
Many and many a time I vow to call on Thee,
Yet when the time for prayer comes round, I have forgotten.
Now I see it is all Thy trick.
As Thou hast never given, so Thou receivest naught;
Am I to blame for this, O Mother? Hadst Thou but given,
Surely then Thou hadst received;
Out of Thine own gifts I should have given to Thee.
Glory and shame, bitter and sweet, are Thine alone;
This world is nothing but Thy play.
Then why, O Blissful One, dost Thou cause a rift in it?
Says Ramprasad: Thou hast bestowed on me this mind,
And with a knowing wink of Thine eye
Bidden it, at the same time, to go and enjoy the world.
And so I wander here forlorn through Thy creation,
Blasted, as it were, by someone's evil glance,
Taking the bitter for the sweet,
Taking the unreal for the Real.
The Master continued: "Men are deluded through Her maya and have become attached to
the world.
Says Ramprasad: Thou hast bestowed on me this mind,
And with a knowing wink of Thine eye
Bidden it, at the same time, to go and enjoy the world."
BRAHMO DEVOTEE: "Sir, can't we realize God without complete renunciation?"
MASTER (with a laugh): "Of course you can! Why should you renounce everything? You
are all right as you are, following the middle path-like molasses partly solid and partly
liquid. Do you know the game of nax? Having scored the maximum number of points, I am
out of the game. I can't enjoy it. But you are very clever. Some of you have scored ten
points, some six, and some five. You have scored just the right number; so you are not out
of the game like me. The game can go on. Why, that's fine! (All laugh.)
"I tell you the truth: there is nothing wrong in your being in the world. But you must direct
your mind toward God; otherwise you will not succeed.
Do your duty with one hand and with the other hold to God. After the duty is over, you will
hold to God with both hands.
continued....
z,
"So Ravi, knowing the story of Vikramarka why do you recommend Bhakthi to us?"
Bhakti it is, not to be caught up in the happenings in the world,whatever the happenings be.It is like the child remembering its mother amidst play.It may continue with the toys for some time but already the remembrance of the Mother is becoming insistent.The nature of this is Love that is unconditional,unrelated to whatever that happens here.Love is its own means and end.It is self recommending.
Namaskar.
z,
"Ravi, where does this leave you as a Bhaktha.In the past you also said there is a difference in my Christmas santa analogy and a Saint.Could you also write about that."
Do we love santa or the Gift that he leaves behind?Not to be in love with Santa and attaching ourselves to the gift that he leaves behind is the source of problem.
It is not as if Santa is not there,but we expect him to come on the Christmas Eve and leave behind a gift.God is ever at play as Santa and constantly dishing out the gifts-we like some gifts and hate some.The moment we realise that the Greatest gift is Santa only and not his gifts,we become 'bhaktas'.Santa is very real for the Bhakta,and he does not look for a 'santa' who makes a one time appearance.He wants the Santa who is there forever.
As Sri Ramakrishna says-"To my Divine Mother I prayed only for pure love. I offered flowers at Her
Lotus Feet and prayed to Her: 'Mother, here is Thy virtue, here is Thy vice. Take them both
and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy knowledge, here is Thy ignorance. Take
them both and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy purity, here is Thy impurity.
Take them both, Mother, and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy dharma, here is
Thy adharma. Take them both, Mother, and grant me only pure love for Thee.'
So,Friend there is no pretence in Bhakti,no pretence that the 'santa' who is not there is wished for with a childish Longing!Quite the contary,it is Real Santa,the embodiment of Love who is wished for,and not for the gifts that he may or may not give.
Namaskar.
z,
"In the Shirdi Sai Sat Charithra he tells one of his devotees that he has granted him a boon of a child and explicitly tells him that children were not in his prarabdha but Sai was changing that and a child prodigy was born to that devotee who died as a teenager.
I always wondered if changing prarabdha was also in the prarabdha of that devotee or is this me being Doubtng Thomas.There is no way to know this."
The basic problem for us is in attaching a tag of importance to whatever happens here.Whether it is predetermined or whether it is indeterminate chance,it does not alter the situation for us.The only sane approach seems to be not to get caught up in such speculations and put our trust in the guru-and witha little practice we start sensing our way-like Sri Bhagavan's example of a dog tracing the scent of its master.No more fancying our chances,no more bothering whether we will make it or fail short of the mark,etc.The Scent is growing strong and that is what matters.Anything that helps to make the scent grow strong is welcome.
The sai satcharita is a wonderful book,and one should read it over and over again.When Devotion is there is no repetition-and this is pArAyana.One starts loving the Master not for what he does,but for what he is,embodiment of Love.
Namaskar.
Looking For A Monk And Not Finding Him
- Li Po
I took a small path leading
up a hill valley, finding there
a temple, its gate covered
with moss, and in front of
the door but tracks of birds;
in the room of the old monk
no one was living, and I
staring through the window
saw but a hair duster hanging
on the wall, itself covered
with dust; emptily I sighed
thinking to go, but then
turning back several times,
seeing how the mist on
the hills was flying, and then
a light rain fell as if it
were flowers falling from
the sky, making a music of
its own; away in the distance
came the cry of a monkey, and
for me the cares of the world
slipped away, and I was filled
with the beauty around me.
salutations to all:
Z. - going through your comments tends to make one think that you are sort-of very unhappy! is that so? sorry for this unsolicited suggestion!
if yes, then perhaps you shouldn't merely stop reading but stop, at least temporarily, thinking as well (i.e., thinking whatever you write here). if it suits you, simply do 'vichAra' everytime these confusions assail you. stop reading about this or that saint - for now, you may keep all these sages & saints in an unreachable attic! (including bhagavAn if such reading augments your confusions instead of alleviating it!). if reading is something you can't do away with, then don't just read, begin to 'study', say the upanishads with whichever commentary you like, or some such thing (preferably not the feely-touchy stuff of so-called devotion) :-). if this too doesn't help, then watch the ongoing world-cup cricket matches and play someother sport as well.
be happy :-)))
Dear Anon [z] and Ravi,
Sri Bhagavan wrote for His Mother
when she begged Him to return home in 1898:
The ordainer [God] controls the fate of souls in accordance with their prarabdha karma. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, do whatever you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is for one to be silent.
The question therefore comes up whether the Ordainer can change the fate of the souls, i.e prarabdha karma. I believe it is possible for God to change the course of prarabdha karma. We have read many instances in Puranas for this. Markandeya's story in Tirukadavur is a classic example.
When Yama came, the poor boy held the Siva Linga tight. [It was earlier ordained that he should at the age of 16]. But Siva, changed the course by stopping the time for him! There is no passage of time for Markandeya, and he lived ever as a 16 year old boy. Whereas Krishna did not change the course of prarabdha for Yadvas. The clan was bound to destroy itself. So when they took the grass and fought with each other, the grass became the weapon and all died due to fighting.
So, God or the ordainer decides when to change the course of prarabdha and when not to.
Dear Anon[z] and Ravi,
There is an interesting conversation in Letters from Sri Ramanasramam,
16th Feb. 1949:
Q: As we hold two different opinions, we are inquiring in order to find what Sri Bhagavan would like best.
Sri B: Oh, I see. You want to know what Sri Bhagavan would like
best! What Sri Bhagavan likes best is to remain silent without doing anything. If people with different opinions give up their mauna, which is the embodiment of love, and come to me, and say: "We
will do this," and "We will do that," and inquire of me which I like better of the two, what can I say? If you all agree upon a course of action, and then ask me for my opinion, I would then say that it is all right. But when you are of two opinions, why do you come to me and ask me which I like better? What I like is to know who I am, and to remain as I am with the knowledge that what is to happen will happen and what is not to happen will not happen. Is that not right? Do you understand what Sri Bhagavan likes best?
Dear Anon[z], Ravi,
There are two verses in Guru Vachaka Kovai which deal with this prarabdha.
1190: Iswara, the supreme being, actuates the jiva in accordance with his prarabdha to make that prarabdha completely exhaust itself. Through the power of prarabdha, that which is not destined to happen will not happen, however much one may try, and that which is destined to happen will happen irrespective of what one may try to do to prevent it. The best course, therefore, is to abide in mauna.
1191: No one can do anything that is opposed to the ordinance of the Supreme Lord, who possesses unlimited power and who can do anything. Therefore, to end the illusory anxieties of the mind, which engender an evil discontent, the proper course is to remain under the spell of supreme consciousness, which arises from meditating on the divine feet, with the mischief of the ego subdued.
Sadhu Natananda, in Sri Ramana Darsanam [Tr. David Godman]:
Scriptures say that all activities can be attributed to the three types of prarabdha. Desired by oneself, iccha. Not desired by oneself, aniccha. And desired by others, pareccha. On account of the last two portions of prarabdha, some activities can arise to a small extent, even in the case of Jnanis. Even if these activities do appear, because it is their nature to remain apart from them, Jnanis are not associated with any of them. This is the conclusion of the scriptures. He alone is a firm Jnani who remains unaffected by the events for which he is the instrumental cause.
This, indeed, is the expeience of the Jivanmukta. Just as the attitude of the devotees is reflected in the Lord, similarly, the attitudes of those who approach the Jnani are reflected in him. The Brahma Jnanis who have the transcendental vision do not absorb anything. Even if they do, not being attached to them, they are not bound by them.
Just as a mother has put herself in the state of the child who speaks to it, in the same way, the Jnani, in order to settle amicably the issues that arise through no desire of his own, has to assume the state of those who approach him.
ADVAITA BODHA DEEPIKA:
The Question of Prarabdha:
32: Devotee: How will the Sage be,
who has undoubtingly unmistakably
and steadily realized Brahman?
Master: Always remaining as the Being-Knowledge-Bliss, non dual, all-perfect, all alone, unitary Brahman, he will be unshaken even while experiencing the results of past karma now in fruition. [Prarabdha]
33-35. D: Being only Brahman, how can he be subject to the experiences and activities resulting from past karma?
M: For the Sage undoubtingly and unmistakably fixed as the real Self, there can remain no past karma. In its absence, there can be no fruition, consequently no experience nor any activity. Being only without mode Brahman, there can be no experiencer, no experiences, no objects of experience. Therefore, no past karma can be said to remain for him.
D: Why should we not say that his past karma is working itself out?
M: Who is the questioner? He must be a deluded being and not a Sage.
D: Why?
M: Experience implies delusion. Without the one, the other cannot be. Unless there is an object, no experience is possible. All objective knowledge is delusion. There is no duality in Brahman. Certainly all names and forms are by ignorance superimposed on Brahman. Therefore, the experiencer must be ignorant only and not a Sage. Having already inquired into the nature of things, and known them to be illusory names and forms born of ignorance, the Sage remains fixed as Brahman and knows all to be only Brahman. Who is there to enjoy what? Therefore, there is no past karma left not present enjoyment nor any activity for the wise one.
36-37. D: However we do not see him free from experience of past karma. On the other hand, he goes through them like an ordinary ignorant man. How is this to be explained?
M: In his view, there is nothing like past karma, enjoyment or activities.
D: What is his view?
M: For him, there is nothing but the pure, untainted Space of Absolute Knowledge.
D: But how he is seen to pass through experiences?
M: Only the others see him so. He is not aware of it.
Viveka Choodamani:
Investigation about Prarabdha:
Verse 445: When one orients his mind and contemplate, there are still forms in the outside world.
For such a person, even without efforts, the pleasure and pain are experienced. Vedas call this as Prarabdha.
Verse 446: So long as there are experiences of pleasure and pain, there is effect of prarabdha. This is due to his actions in his previous births.
Verse 447: Once he realizes that he is none other than Brahman, Sanchita earned during countless crores of previous births, get extinguished like actions in a dream.
Verse 448: The merits and demerits in a dream -- can they take one to either heaven or hell?
Verse 449: Once a person realizes, that he is Brahman, a mere witness like Akasa, then he will no longer be bound by any sanchita and agami.
Verse 450: Just as Space within a pot containing toddy, will not be affected by the smell of toddy, there is no binding for such a person though he is still in embodied state.
Verse 453: No doubt prarabdha karma cannot be conquered by even the Jnanis, it is said. But one who has attained nirguna brahma sakshatkaram, surely all the fruits of the three karmas are not there.
Verse 454: To attribute prarabdha karmas for such Brahmaswarupis, is like the dream talk and dream actions, which are of no significance to the man who has woken up.
e.g. The sting of a scorpion in the dream, will not cause pain for the person who has woken up.
Verse 458: Even to say that the body has been formed due to karmas and so the Jnani's body will be subject to karmas is not correct. Because such a Jnani is not the body but only Atma.
REFLECTIONS ON TALKS - S.S. Cohen:
"Even without any initial desires, there are some strange experiences for us. Where from do they arise?"
Sri B: The desires may not be there now. But they were once there. Though forgotten they are now bearing fruit. That is why the Jnani is said to have prarabdha. Of course, this is so from the point of view of others who observe the Jnani.
The questioner seems to think that
people are always conscious of their moral delinquencies of their sins of omission and commission,
of the effect of their actions upon others, as well as of their own desires. They are not. Excessive greed and lack of consideration for the feeling and interest of others, etc., are unfortunately, a common melody, as witness politics, competition in business, and a hundred-and-one other deliberate and otherwise daily lapses in their conduct towards their neighbors. So to play the injured innocent for the troubles they get, cannot cheat Providence. Unconsciousness or oblivion of old desires, old sins and actions which affected oneself and others in this life or in previous lives, does not cancel the poetic justice that is necessary to restore the disturbed balance. Even the Jnani brings his destiny from another life, but this works itself out without creating for him a new karma, or a new birth, or causing him anguish, as do the same troubles to others. His mind, having totally sunk in the Self, has become, under all circumstances, as fresh and cool as summer moonlight. Others, seeing the sufferings of his body, imagine the Jnani himself to be suffering.
REFLECTIONS ON TALKS - S.S. Cohen.
"As long as you feel yourself the doer of actions, so long you are bound to enjoy its fruits. But if you find whose karma it is, you will see that you are not the doer. Then you will be free. This requires the Grace of God, for which you should pray to Him and meditate on Him."
Desires lie at the root of destiny. We desire and move to acquire its object. Then we never think of the identity of the actor, our whole attention being centered on the object till we secure it. The question of doership in the light of truth and untruth does not occur to us at the moment. Enjoyment of the object preoccupies us most, enjoyment which we tacitly accept as the reward for our action, for one endeavor to gain it. This is karma done with a sense of doership, the doer being the empirical 'I', even if the sense is not actively in the mind. It is implied in the act itself, and thus binds us.
Now, if we investigate into the cause and motive of action and into the nature of the actor, we will find that he who has acted with the motive of enjoyment is not the real 'I' but an imitator,
a false 'I', then we shall be automatically released from the bondage of karma. Although we henceforth act, the sense that it is we who are acting drops from us, and with it also drops the power of karma to grip us. For the empirical 'I' will no longer be there to be gripped.
But this discovery or realization, does not come without intense worship and meditation.
ViNNai Oru PoruL veReNNathu irunthapadi
UNNaduLatholiRum ANNamalai enananma,
KaaNume, ARULUM VENUME
anbu poonume, inbu thoNume....
[Anma Vidya Kirtanam, para 5]
REFLECTIONS ON TALKS: S.S. Cohen:
ON PRARABDHA:
"Actions without motive does not bind. Even a Jnani acts and there
can be no action without effort and without sankalpas - motives. Therefore, there are sankalpas, for everyone. But these are of two kinds. The binding ones [bandha-hetu] and the liberating [mukti-hetu]. The former must be given up and he later cultivated."
Here is a way out of the karmic stream. Sri Bhagavan postulates action for all men, and results for all actions, yet repudiates
the binding residue of action to apply equally to all actors. Action binds only to the extent that its motive element is of the binding type, bandha-hetu. And never if it is the liberating type, where the material, selfish motive, is totally absent. Therefore, those who wish to jump out of the stream of bondage into that of liberation have to curb
their binding sankalpas and cultivate those of mukti.
The question may now be asked - How are they to distinguish between the two, which is admittedly difficult to do? This text is mainly meant for the sadhakas, who constantly worries whether a certain action of his is consistent with his sadhana or not.
Sri Bhagavan dissipates this doubt by admitting action to all men, and a motivated action too. For example, in olden days, Sri Bhagavan Himself used to wok in the kitchenm and even once built
a mud wall to His cave on the Hill. He knew hen why He did that work, and certainly aimed at the utility element in it, or else He would have not done it. But when Sri Bhagavan worked, He was all along aware of His true being as the doer of action, which is desireless. The motive of this action, is thus not of binding type. Therefore, the sadhaka's action should not worry him, so long as it is not of the binding type, having desires in the background.
Thanjavur Big Temple is nowadays called Thajai Brahadeeswarar Kovil.
This temple is 1000 years old and recently some celebrations were made to commemorate the completion of 1000 years. In the Tirumurais, this temple is called Rajarajeswaram, after King Raja Raja, who is said to have completed this temple in 22 years. Karuvurar or Karuvur Thevar
was the Raja guru for the king. There is a small shrine for him inside the temple.
Karuvurar or Karuvur Thevar has sung about this temple [9th Saiva Canon) in eleven verses.
Verse No. 8:
For a long period of time, old devotees did service to you and are waiting anxiously for Your grace for attaining liberation. However, You have been sitting in my Heart throne, how can I forget
your nobility? The young dancing girls with eye brows like lightning and forms like peacocks
are dancing in the Natya Mantapam in the temple. O Your glory is bondless, the Lord staying in Raja Rajeswaram, which is surrounded by gardens of ginger plants.
All the eleven verses in this work, speak about the ginger plant gardens. I do not know whether there is an inner meaning for this usage.
There is a nice story about Karuvur Thevar, the saint-poet.
GURU STUTHI:
This was sung by the disciples of
Sri Sankara, when he had taken one month time, to debate about erotica, with Sarasavani, wife of Mandana Misra. Sri Sankara was then in the body of dead king, Amaruka, to know about erotica and sported among the hundred queens in the guise of their husband. Then the disciples come to him and tell him about the expiry of time bidding him to come back to Mahishmati town to continue the debate with Sarasavani. Sri Bhagavan has rendered the eight verses of this work in Tamizh under the above name. This is sung on one of the evenings of Tamizh Parayana in the Asramam.
The first three verses speak about the technique of self inquiry.
1. That is the Truth which the wise realize as the Self, the residuum left over on withdrawing
from external objects with or without form [ether, air, fire, water, and earth], by a careful application of the scriptural text,
'Not this, not this.' That thou art!
2. That is the Truth which, after generating the fundamentals [ether, air, fire, water and earth], and entering the world, lies hidden beneath the five sheaths, and which has been threshed out by the wise with the pestle of discernment, just as the grain is recovered by threshing and winnowing the chat. That thou art!
3. Just as wild horses are broken-in by whipping and stabling them, so also the unruly senses, straying among objects, are unreal, and are tethered by the rope of pure intellect to the Self by the wise. Such is the Truth. That thou art.
[Tr. Arthur Osborne]
salutations to all:
Subramanian:
in an earlier comment, you had said ["...Here is where when Vishnu was doing puja for Siva, out of 1000 lotuses, one lotus was missing and he used one of his eyes as lotus and finished his puja..."]
in the tEvAram (sundarar) i happened to listen & recite today, there was this very reference :-)
here is the verse, which i request you/ravi to translate :-):
அருமல ரோன்சிரம் ஒன்றறுத் தீர்செறுத்
தீரழற் சூலத்தில் அந்தகனைத்
திருமகள் கோனெடு மால்பல நாள்சிறப்
பாகிய பூசனை செய்பொழுதில்
ஒருமலர் ஆயிரத் திற்குறை வாநிறை
வாகவோர் கண்மலர் சூட்டலுமே
பொருவிறல் ஆழி புரிந்தளித் தீர்பொழி
லார்திருப் புத்தூர்ப் புனிதனீரே
Dear S.,
This Padigam of Sundaramoorthy is on Siva of Tiru Arsikkarai Puthur, though it is indicated by the saint-poet as Tirupathur. In fact, there is no Padigam on Tirupathur, in 7th TirumuRai of
Sundaramoorthy.,
Though Vishnu doing puja with one of his eyes, for the missing lotus, it is in Tiruveezhimizhalai
only, Sundarar mentions this under
Tiru Ariskkkarai Puthur and praises
Siva. Siva in Tiruveezhimizhalai
is called Netrarpaneswarar, i.e one for whom an eye was submitted
as an offering. This confirms the story having happened here.
I shall give the translation of
Sundarmoorty's song soon.
salutations to all:
Subramanian:
the tamizh word sundarar uses at the end of each verse is "tiruputthur azhaganIrE/ punithanIrE)" (திருப்புத்தூர் அழகனீரே/ புனிதனீரே) only and not tirupatthur திருப்பத்தூர், is it not so? sorry, if am wrong...
Thanks Folks for the various posts.Thanks Ravi for the post on Thakur, he himself has no other explaination other than Mother winking us into this world but doesn't say why does the mother wink.She probably winks becuase the wind moves and the water flows.Thakur too is clueless and I know Ramana too threw hands up and said something like why all that, the only thing that you can be certain is the 'I' exists and trace whence from it arises.Papaji tried to trace out how the I arises in his long and dangerous experiments (secluded medidations) but could not trace out how the I (consciousness) arises.Sankara gave up saying Maya(trickery).Buddha remained silent when asked.
If you talk of numbers out of the billions and billions that have lived on Earth since time immemorial only about 200(Numbers quoted from Quran,UG) souls attained Self-Realization.Yet millions and millions are after it.The numbers say it is almost as if a Jnani is a very very rare genetic disorder.Kathopanishad says the chosen ones.
For lack of proof and since everything has failed to produce proof including the greatest saints I conclude that it is all automatic.Just like a river flows automatically and when faced with an obstruction it either overflows or deviates(UG).Our mind calls that intelligence and even further intelligence everywhere.When we can explain we give names and when we can't we use words like God, Reincarnation,Maya etc.UG says if there is any purpose it is already expressing itself and the 'why' is a foolish question.It is difficult for human mind to accept that this is all that is there and no grander purposes.If I cannot get anything from God I dont give a damn to him.Why invent Bhakti,Love,causeless love etc?
I think UG put it the best way:Go get out sir and make some money(meaning go get out and do whatever it is that you have to do; you will get nowhere with these discussions) and if it is to happen to you it will happen despite of everything.
Thanks Folks.
-z
Being around sages. Man, if it was something I could describe. Last night at SAT Temple was Maha Sivarastri, and I fasted for 34 hours (I don't know if anyone else at SAT did), one of my friends said it was part of the deal. The pujas, and readings, and meditation went on for 12 hours through the night. Nome was there. And being in a jnani's presence for 12 hours.... Can't describe it. And that's the thing, it's one thing to read stories about Maharshi. But what goes on around actual sages, well, is so beyond, beyond, beyond. What is happening, is not on the physical level, it transcends the mind. Though the manifested physical events (things said, done by the sage), thoughts, experiences, glimpses may be very profound and entertaining, and inspiring, I just know I'm not qualified to describe them. It's still a mental story, and what happened didn't happen on the mental or physical level as I know it. At the level of what the sage is, there is no duality, of even self and other, jnani and ajnani. The jnani doesn't usually say, "hey, I'm a jnani, listen to me speak" People like me get drawn in supernaturally.
Scott,
A primary responsibility of the Outer Guru, is to keep pushing the seeker “within”. Once done, the Inner Guru takes over.
And, it will be difficult for some to hear, but the Outer Guru can even become a hindrance.
I would say, that is spoken like someone who has maybe never been around an outer Guru. If they are really realized, than there is no person. Even Robert Adams specifically said loving the Guru is loving one's own Self. Yeah, if they aren't a realized person, and they don't help the inner Guru, which is self-evident whether that is happening or not. Then one I would think should evaluate whether they are the right guru. On the other hand, you maybe lack an understanding a real Outer Guru is the Inner guru, there is no duality.
z,
If you are convinced with what UG is saying,please go ahead and live it truly and fully.
As for thakur's saying,the winking of the eye has to be understood as the 'desire' element that is there in all embodied beings-it is this that has helped the growth from amoeba to humans,and what has helped all along is now perceived as a hindrance-for it is in humanbeings that the duality of opposites is perceived as shackles.The animals put up with it without trying to be free from it.It is the Humanbeing that desires to be free and this desire also is part of the play.
This desire to be free will not permit one to somehow carry on and earn money as UG has said.
UG is saying that the way of desire has to be transcended.The others are also saying the same thing in a different way.Whatever appeals and feels natural to the seeker,he may go along that path.
Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.
z,
Numbers do not signify anything for the seeker.There is no fancying of chances to see if one could make it.Does one have an option to pursue the Divine or not to pursue?Just like the mechanics of Karma grind relentlessly and one does not have an option but to flow along,similiarly the mechanics of Grace is much more relentless and washes one to Freedom.A snapshot of a lifetime does not determine the making or breaking of the inexhorable efflorescence.
It is the destiy of every particle of water to reach the sea;some reach earlier,others reach it later.That is all.Why tarry longer if one can reach it sooner.Sadhana is pursued only towards this objective if one may call it.
Namaskar.
Scott,
are you sure Nome is capable of pushing you within?
Dear S.,
Yes. The original name is Tiruputhur. Over a period of time,
it has changed in usage as Tirupathur.
Coming to the verse you had mentioned:
Arumalaron siram onRu aRutheer -
You have severed one of the heads
of Brahma, who stays in lotus.
SeRutheer azhal soolathil andhakanai -
You punished Yama [Andhaka - the blind, because he is blind in take the lives of beings whose life span is over, without any discrimination.] with flame like trident.
TirumagaL konedu maal pala naaL
sirappakiya poosanai sei pozhuthil -
When Lakshmi's husband Maal - Vishnu did great pujas for many days to you,
Oru malar ayirathil kuRaiva niRai
vaahavor kaN malar soottalume -
When [one of those days] when one lotus was short for thousand lotuses, he made good by offering his lotus like eye,
Poru viRal aazhi purinthalithir -
You became happy and gifted him,
aazhi - chakram -disc, which is very powerful, taking his sacrifice into account,
Pozhilar tiru puthur punithaneere!
In tirupathur where the flower gardens abound, O the Pure!
Tiruputhur is in Sivaganga district in Tamizh Nadu, 19 kms
from Karaikudi.
This town is famous for both Siva and Muruga. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar, Tirunavukkarasar and later Arunagiri Natha have sung songs in this town, praising Siva and Muruga.
Saint Manikkavachagar also sings about this 'episode' of Vishnu getting Chakra for he had offered the eye in lieu of a missing lotus. [Tiru ThoL Nokkam, Tiruvachakam, Verse 10]
Dear Scott,
Very nice to hear about Maha Sivaratri function in SAT temple.
To be with a Jnani itself is a great experience like sitting before Sri Bhagavan's Samadhi on a Sivaratri night. You have fasted, you have been chanting along with others, you have been sitting in the presence of a Jnani. What else is needed to attain the bliss?
Going after routine work, making
money, spending time with women,
spending wealth for worldly pleasures... These are living...
As Colin Wilson said: As for living, let others do... [The Outsider].
Dear Anon.,
The outer guru will not be there,
once his 'pushing' is over. The job is over, he is no longer there, and there is no hindrance whatsoever.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Ashtavakra Gita says that for
a realized Jnani, even winking of the eye is a botheration, for his
state of non-action.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Numbers will be a few and far in between for any 'achievement'. From 1952, how many have climbed the Everest? The world's population is more than 8000 million but only about 15 or 20 have reached the summit of Everest. Many have lost their lives? Why? Is there no better work to do, than Everest climbing? Why not make money in 2G or 3G spectrum auctions and be happy? Why climb Everest?
The noblest achievement, the most sublime achievement are effecutalized only by a few.
As for living, let others do...
[Colin Wilson]
When Sri Bhagavan was living in Virupaksha Cave, a monkey clan regularly visited Him and would sit under a big shady tree in front of the cave. They would groom one another for long hours in front of Him. At other times, they would sit before Him without moving, silently absorbed as though they were in deep meditation.
Sri Bhagavan would often have light hearted interaction with His beloved companions -- the monkeys and he would poke fun at them at times.
Once there was a clan of monkeys sitting silently and serenely in front of Sri Bhagavan as if they
were meditating. Sri Bhagavan was thoroughly enjoying the spectacle and admire their concentration. However, He could not miss the opportunity of teasing them.
Sri Bhagavan addressed the monkeys, "Aye! Are you sitting before me in Samadhi? Very well done! But let me see how long you will be able to sit like this?"
Just as He spoke, a monkey began to fidget. He opened his eyes, unable to sit still any longer. Sri Bhagavan looked at him and said: "You fellow! Where are you going? What empire have you to conquer? Sit quietly. Let me see."
At Sri Bhagavan's words, the monkey became quiet and completely peaceful. He sat, absorbed again, without even the slightest movement!
Z,
Interesting your post, “For lack of proof and since everything has failed to produce proof including the greatest saints I conclude that it is all automatic…….”, and so on.
Just thought to mention, in case you were not aware of the same, that your ideas expressed therein correspond perfectly with the doctrine of Maskarin Gosala, a contemporary of Mahavira & Buddha. His followers were called “Ajivikas” and faced the wrath of both the Buddhists and the Jains, and also that of every system following. In fact, Buddha personally attacked this doctrine it seems (?), calling it, famously, a “hempen garment – which not only is disagreeable to the skin but yields no protection against either the cold of winter or the heat of summer.” [Anguttara Nikaya I.286; “The Gradual Dialogues of the Buddha”, Pali Text Society, London 1932]
The doctrine simply was that as long as the Jiva has not completed the normal course of its evolution, running through a number of fixed and inevitable births, there can be no Self-realisation. No amount of moral or ascetic exertion would shorten the series of rebirths and thus all spiritual endeavour was pointless. When the last birth happened, release too would happen, like everything else happens, by itself. No divine grace or human zeal can interrupt or interfere with this unalterable principle of bondage, evolution and release. Therefore, since nothing can be done, and nothing really matters, you might as well freak out and fulfill all your materialistic, and specially, carnal desires.
As always, nothing personally against this, to each his own. But you might want to read further on the reasoning why every ancient Master and philosophical system that there is, attacked this doctrine so savagely. “Philosophies of India” by Heinrich Zimmer is a brilliant starting point.
Best wishes
"For everything has failed proof, including the greatest saints, I think it [evolution and absorption?]
is automatic."
It is also like Sarvaka philosophy,
which is admittedly in the Hindu systems of philosophy.
What is the proof one can require?
It is Sukam. Sukam is also there in money, women and good ice-creams. But do these Sukam last the longest? Is it not ephemeral, temporary? You have ****ed a woman about 10 days back.
Does the "happiness" last for ever
in your life time? Don't you need another **** after at least 7 days?
The ice-cream enjoyed last week, does it last for the life time? Don't you need an ice-cream today?
You have earned $ 50,000 during last month. Is it sufficient for your life time? Don't you wish to earn some more this month?
So all these are temporary and do not last. What is lasting Sukam?
There is a glimpse of in sleep. That is why deep sleep or sushupti is given as an example in many of Sri Bhagavan's teachings. On Maha Sivaratri night, one can fast for the whole day, but to remain without sleep is a greater problem.
Almost unconquerable. Even the freedom fighters in India, starting from Gandhi fasted for 10 days and 21 days. But could they overcome sleep continuously? No.
That is why in Nazi concentration camps, I am told, the greatest punishment given to the detainees were making them not to sleep. Cold water will be splashed, bright lights were burning in their cells. If with all these, one tries to sleep, blows were given to prevent them from sleeping.
When deep sleep itself can be an instrument of Sukam, then the Jnanis say that there is a still better, far far better Sukam in controlling mental movements. If one succeeds in controlling the mind and finally could vanquish it, then the pure mind, curls up into the Self or Brahman or God and there is permanent, lasting, irreversible Sukam. It does not require a proof. It only needs an effort, a continued effort to experience what it is. Proof is only that state and not statements.
That is why the Almighty has given the sleep to every living being, so that he or she or it could have a foretaste what is permanent Sukam, which cannot be described excepting by this small example.
... “Philosophies of India” by Heinrich Zimmer is a brilliant starting point. ...
That's true. This book ist profound:
Philosophies of India
a bit of light-hearted fun, enjoy!
Dear Peter,
Thanks. I shall see them at my leisure. What is the trap of Advaita? The mind should purify the mind to become a Ruby. This is described in Verse 5 of Sri Arunachala Ashtakam. Good thoughts should elbow out the bad thoughts and finally good thoughts should also be thrown away, to be in a thoughtless, ego less, mind less state! This is the paradox.
What is the Self? It is indescribable. Maya hides the Self. What is Maya? It is again indescribable. One indescribable should be vanquished to attain the other indescribable. This is the advaitic paradox.
Who is a Jnani? You cannot fathom. The best way is to become a Jnani. After that how do you find Ajnanis? There are no Ajnanis at all, once you become a Jnani. This is another advaitic paradox.
We shall not cease from exploration,
And the end of all exploring,
Is to arrive where we started,
To know the place for the first time!
Dear everyone,
Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out
against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a
table;
Let us go, through certain
half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats
Of restless nights in one night
cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster
shells;
Streets that follow like a tedious
argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you an overwhelming
question....
Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?'
Let us go and make our visit.
In the room women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
[T.S. Eliot - The Love Song of J.
Alfred Prufrock]
Folks,
I never said Charavaka or any other Gosha.I only repeated go and do whatever it is that you have to do.It does not mean only freak out.If that job is sadhana go and do it.Even if you try to frek out you cant if you are not that type.Even if Bhagawan comes and tells you go and kill and rape as sadhana you will not do it if you are not that type. So plese dont put words into my mouth by not reading my statements properly.Please dont jump to conclusions.Did n't they say you only see what you know or what you'd like to.
2)Yes Ravi it might mean there is only desire there and nothing else.Desire is another word for Thought.Desire too again is only energy.UG calls this: there is only that throb of life that is there.Where does God(mother's winking) come in here?That is what Bhagawan or UG is saying.
You cant explain it and you bring in Mother.Mother cant explain it and you bring in wink.Wink cant explaint it and you bring in Play and in the end laugh away by contradicting yourself saying: actually playing is not that bad one if better off playing than winning and coming out(Thankur's Nex game analogy)
3)Subramanian you say Ice cream does n't last.I will ask you again:Do you know if Bhagawan is now in lasting Bliss?Can he now come to you and say surely it lasts much longer than Icecream?
-z
salutations to all:
Anonymous(Z.):
you sort-of really 'freaked-out' on arvind's comment! i guess he simply thought your thinking matches the old doctrine of 'Maskarin Gosala', and in that context the "you" used doesn't mean you(Z.) but indicated the system of the “Ajivikas”. please read again and you will see :-)
Z.: (please don't get me wrong) if you look at most of your comments here, they are typically random ramblings that you seem to be helplessly venting out in perhaps a state of conflict (depression?)! of course, you are free to write anything you want but if you are looking for "help", then it's time you get focused and channelise your powers into a sAdhanA like self-enquiry instead of frittering away your energies in ways clearly not beneficial to you or anybody else... :-)
Aedi(what is/which is;ennadi in Tamil) cheekati(darkness) Aedi veluturu(light)
Aedi jeevitham Aedi mrithyuvu
Aedi punyam Aedi paapam
Aedi Narakam Aedi Naakam(not pain)
Aedi satyam Aedi asatyam
Aedi anityam Aedi nityam
Aedi ekam Aedi anaekam
Aedi kaaaranam Aedi kaaryam
O Mahaatma O Maharshi
Aedi telupu(white) Aedi nalupu(black)
Aedi gaanam Aedi mounam
Aedi naadi(mine) Aedi needi(yours)
Aedi neeti Aedi naethi(not this)
Ninna(yesterday's) swapnam Neti(Today's) satyam
Neti(Today's) khaedam(sorrow) raepu(Tomorrow) raagam
Oke kaanti Oke shaanti
O Maharshee O Mahaatma
[Video on : http://www.teluguvaibhavam.com/2009/06/literature-songs-edi-cheekati-edi.html]
-Sri Sri (Srirangam Sreenivasa Rao,Telugu poet).
-z
Dear Anon [z]
Sri Bhagavan is defintely a lasting ice-cream, ice-cream generously mixed with nectar of bliss. That is why people come to Him, even after
60 years of His Maha Nirvana. His
Samadhi continues to radiate nectarine bliss and confers you peace. Our job is only to retain this bliss through contemplation of His divine teachings. Effort is necessary, perseverance is necessary and on top of all His
Grace is necessary. His Grace is ever flowing, but we should carry a large vessel with us to take it.
One cannot take a tea spoon to Him
and say His grace is inadequate to uplift me. One's mental constipation cannot be cured with one glass of water. One should take 4 to 5 liters of water to set right the stomach.
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
At noon the host wished to feed the Master and the devotees. Sri Ramakrishna was
smilingly pacing the room. Now and then he exchanged a few words with the musician.
MUSICIAN: "It is God alone who is both the 'instrument' and the 'cause'. Duryodhana said
to Krishna: 'O Lord, Thou art seated in my heart. I act as Thou makest me act.'"
MASTER (with a smile): "Yes, that is true. It is God alone who acts through us. He is the
Doer, undoubtedly, and man is His instrument. But it is also true that an action cannot fail
to produce its result. Your stomach will certainly burn if you eat hot chilli. It is God who
has ordained that chilli will burn your stomach. If you commit a sin, you must bear its fruit.
But one who has attained perfection, realized God, cannot commit sin. An expert singer
cannot sing a false note. A man with a trained voice sings the notes correctly: sa, re, ga, ma,
pa, dha, ni."
The meal was ready. The Master and the devotees went to the inner court, where they were
treated to a generous feast.
About. three o'clock in the afternoon the Master was seated again in Ishan's drawing-room
with M. and Shrish. He resumed his conversation with Shrish.
MASTER: "What is your attitude toward God? 'I am He', or 'Master and servant'? For the
householder it is very good to look on God as the Master. The householder is conscious of
doing the duties of life himself. Under such conditions how can he say, 'I am He'? To him
who says, 'I am He' the world appears to be a dream. His mind, his body, even his ego, are
dreams to him. Therefore he cannot perform worldly duties. So it is very good for the
householder to look on himself as the servant and on God as the Master.
"Hanuman had the attitude of a servant. He said to Rama: 'O Rama, sometimes I meditate
on You as the whole and on myself as the part. Sometimes I feel that You are the Master
and I am the servant. But when I have the Knowledge of Reality, I see that I am You and
You are I.'
"In the state of Perfect Knowledge one may feel, 'I am He'; but that is far beyond the
ordinary man's experience."
SHRISH: "That is true, sir. The attitude of a servant relieves a man of all his worries. The
servant depends entirely upon his master. A dog is devoted to its master. It depends upon
him and is at peace."
Namaskar
Ravi,
If only attitude was like a dress that you can wear and change.Try it and you will know.Thakur is only saying some consolation to that specific devotee and we record it, write books and generalise it,form temples, ashrams out of those words.These kind of generalisations(taking out of context) have done me the greatest damage.More than 90% of spiritual literature is replete with this kind of nonsense.Real stuff is only that 10%
I will also remind that famous Devil story when it said to his friend that I will help the boy who picked up a piece of truth, to organize/apply it(detail).
-z
Dear Anon[z]
It is the attitude of one towards
his Master that cause an ocean of difference. Every scripture may
contain 90% nonsense. It does not matter. You remove the chaff and take only the paddy, that is 10%
Vedas contain many many religious rituals/ sacrifices, and it may be boring for you in today's context.
But Vedanta contains quintessence of Truth. Why not you take it? Bible contains many stories. Leave them all and take only the 10 Commandments or the New Testament. In Churches, there are speeches, Bible reading, choir music. If you do not have an attitude towards hearing them, turn a deaf ear and simply meditate on the Cross before at the far end. In Sri Ramnasramam,
there are pujas for Mother's Temple, Samadhi Hall, Vedic chanting, and evening Parayana.
No one compels to you to attend to these. There is an Old Hall, where there are hardly 10 people at anytime, take a pillow and sit over it and meditate on Sri Bhagavan. There are such types of 10% real stuff as you may call it. Take them. Even though 'commoners' like me find 100% Truth in all these activities. The idea is to orient the mind.
The mind should stick to one thought and this thought also should drop off at some point of time, Then on permanent abidance
in that thoughtless state, you attain the Truth-realization.
z,
"If only attitude was like a dress that you can wear and change."
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"I tell you the truth: there is nothing wrong in your being in the world. But you must direct
your mind toward God; otherwise you will not succeed.
Do your duty with one hand and with the other hold to God. After the duty is over, you will
hold to God with both hands.
Bondage and liberation are of the mind
"It is all a question of the mind. Bondage and liberation are of the mind alone. The mind
will take the colour you dye it with. It is like white clothes just returned from the laundry. If
you dip them in red dye, they will be red. If you dip them in blue or green, they will be blue
or green. They will take only the colour you dip them in, whatever it may be. Haven't you
noticed that, if you read a little English, you at once begin to utter English words: Foot fut
it mit? Then you put on boots and whistle a tune, and so on. It all goes together. Or, if a
scholar studies Sanskrit, he will at once rattle off Sanskrit verses. If you are in bad
company, then you will talk and think like your companions. On the other hand, when you
are in the company of devotees, you will think and talk only of God.
"The mind is everything. A man has his wife on one side and his daughter on the other. He
shows his affection to them in different ways. But his mind is one and the same.
"Bondage is of the mind, and freedom is also of the mind. A man is free if he constantly
thinks: 'I am a free soul. How can I be bound, whether I live in the world or in the forest? I
am a child of God, the King of Kings. Who can bind me?' If bitten by a snake, a man may
get rid of its venom by saying emphatically, 'There is no poison in me.' In the same way, by
repeating with grit and determination, 'I am not bound, I am free', one really becomes free."
The simple fact is that Thakur's words are immensely practical.will anybody be satisfied with consolations?For how long?
The conditioning of the mind can be broken by satsangha alone.No degree of 'intelligent thought' can free one in bondage.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi:
["...A man is free if he constantly thinks: 'I am a free soul. How can I be bound, whether I live in the world or in the forest? I am a child of God, the King of Kings. Who can bind me?' In the same way, by repeating with grit and determination, 'I am not bound, I am free', one really, becomes free'..."]
thank you for posting these lines & it was wonderful to read them yet again. this is my dominant attitude :-))). was telling my friend a few days ago - 'am not bothered about mukti, for videhamukti shall certainly be! what matters to me is how i live this life until my last breath ceases' - if there is any one thing worth pursuing, it is jIvanmukti; of course, if that doesn't happen, videhamukti will obviously happen :-)))
after coming to bhagavAn, after coming to aruNAchalA, if one still doubts whether he will be liberated, then woeful & wretched indeed is such a 'doubter' and such a doubt itself is enough to keep one in bondage for eternity! what false 'i', and what false births & false deaths of that false 'i'... :-)))
Friends,
In this verse ThAyumAnavar rues his learning and how it misleads others:
கல்லாத பேர்களே நல்லவர்கள் நல்லவர்கள்
கற்றும்அறி வில்லாதஎன்
கர்மத்தை யென்சொல்கேன்மதியையென் சொல்லுகேன்
கைவல்ய ஞானநீதி
நல்லோ ருரைக்கிலோ கர்மமுக் கியமென்று
நாட்டுவேன் கர்மமொருவன்
நாட்டினா லோபழைய ஞானமுக்கியமென்று
நவிலுவேன் வடமொழியிலே
வல்லா னொருத்தன்வர வுந்த்ரா விடத்திலே
வந்ததா விவகரிப்பேன்
வல்லதமி ழறிஞர்வரின் அங்ஙனே வடமொழியி
வசனங்கள் சிறிதுபுகல்வேன்
வெல்லாம லெவரையும் மருட்டிவிட வகைவந்த
வித்தையென் முத்திதருமோ
வேதாந்த சித்தாந்த சமரசநன் னிலைபெற்ற
வித்தகச் சித்தர்கணமே.
They alone are the goodly ones,
That have learning none.
Though learned,What shall I speak of my fate,My intelligence?
If the good people say:
The jnana path of liberation is the exalted one,
I argue that the karma path is all important.
If someone argues, karma is the important path,
I turn round and say that jnana is all important.
If one learned in Sanskrit comes to argue,
I speak of the exalted truths expounded in Tamil.
If pundits learned in Tamil similarly come,
I smatter a few slokas in Sanskrit.
Thus, confusing all, establishing nothing decisive,
Will this learning ever lead to mukti?
Oh! Thou, the Siddha Elite of Divine Light
That hath reached the Vedanta-Siddhanta accord high!
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Why so much suffering in God's creation?
The Master explained the different kinds of samadhi to the devotees. The conversation then
turned to the joy and suffering of life. Why did God create so much suffering?
M: "Once Vidyasagar said in a mood of pique: 'What is the use of calling on God? Just
think of this incident: At one time Chenghiz Khan plundered a country and imprisoned
many people. The number of prisoners rose to about a hundred thousand. The commander
of his army said to him: "Your Majesty, who will feed them? It is risky to keep them with
us. It will be equally dangerous to release them. What shall I do?" Chenghiz Khan said:
"That's true. What can be done? Well, have them killed." The order was accordingly given
to cut them to pieces. Now, God saw this slaughter, didn't He? But He didn't stop it in any
way. Therefore I don't need God, whether He exists or not. I don't derive any good from
Him.'"
MASTER: "Is it possible to understand God's action and His motive? He creates, He
preserves, and He destroys. Can we ever understand why He destroys? I say to the Divine
Mother: 'O Mother, I do not need to understand. Please give me love for Thy Lotus Feet.'
The aim of human life is to attain bhakti. As for other things, the Mother knows best. I have
come to the garden to eat mangoes. What is the use of my calculating the number of trees,
branches, and leaves? I only eat the mangoes; I don't need to know the number of trees and
leaves."
Namaskar.
s,
"it was wonderful to read them yet again. this is my dominant attitude :-))). was telling my friend a few days ago - 'am not bothered about mukti, for videhamukti shall certainly be!"
Yes,friend.This sort of a conviction(scent of the master)grows with sadhana,and the sheer mechanics of this would lead to the perception of freedom,and not to freedom;for freedom is there all along ,and is not gained anew.This is smarana.Smarana leads to anubhuti.
Namaskar.
Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,from the wonderful chapter 3,'visit to Vidyasagar':
Brahman and Sakti are identical
After a time Sri Ramakrishna showed signs of regaining the normal state. He drew a deep
breath and said with a smile: "The means of realizing God are ecstasy of love and devotion
- that is, one must love God. He who is Brahman is addressed as the Mother.
He it is, says Ramprasad, that I approach as Mother;
But must I give away the secret, here in the market-place?
From the hints I have given, O mind, guess what that Being is!
"Ramprasad asks the mind only to guess the nature of God. He wishes it to understand that
what is called Brahman in the Vedas is addressed by Him as the Mother. He who is
attributeless also has attributes. He who is Brahman is also Sakti. When thought of as
inactive, He is called Brahman, and when thought of as the Creator, Preserver, and
Destroyer, He is called the Primordial Energy, Kali.
"Brahman and Sakti are identical, like fire and its power to burn. When we talk of fire we
automatically mean also its power to burn. Again, the fire's power to burn implies the fire
itself. If you accept the one you must accept the other.
"Brahman alone is addressed as the Mother. This is because a mother is an object of great
love. One is able to realize God just through love. Ecstasy of feeling, devotion, love, and
faith - these are the means. Listen to a song:
As is a man's meditation, so is his feeling of love;
As is a man's feeling of love, so is his gain;
And faith is the root of all.
If in the Nectar Lake of Mother Kali's feet
My mind remains immersed,
Of little use are worship, oblations, or sacrifice.
Growth of divine love lessens worldly duties
"What is needed is absorption in God - loving Him intensely. The 'Nectar Lake' is the Lake
of Immortality. A man sinking in It does not die, but becomes immortal. Some people
believe that by thinking of God too much the mind becomes deranged; but that is not true.
God is the Lake of Nectar, the Ocean of Immortality. He is called the 'Immortal' in the
Vedas. Sinking in It, one does not die, but verily transcends death.
Of little use are worship, oblations, or sacrifice. If a man comes to love God, he need not
trouble himself much about these activities. One needs a fan only as long as there is no
breeze. The fan may be laid aside if the southern breeze blows. Then what need is there of a
fan?"
Namaskar.
Subramanian
I had a look at the Pangikku Uraittal (Lady Telling Her Maid)poem by Tattuvaraya that was mentioned by Bhagavan in Talks 648. The first three lines of each verse list the beneficial consequences of Self-realisation. The second line of the first verse says, 'Our reward was to have 'remaining still (summa iruttal) as our work'.
R.subramanian,
"Numbers will be a few and far in between for any 'achievement'.
I did not mean it this way.One may look at it fundamentally in two ways-The way of Bhakti and the way of Jnana.
For the Bhakta,success and failure has lost its meaning.He simply has ceased to fancy his chances.It is no longer a probability,and this sort of brooding with numbers has just fallen away from him.It does not have meaning.God is.
For the seeker on the jnAna path,Self alone exists,and the many is illusory;where is the question of only the few making it and the majority missing it.
So in either case,the number theory belongs to the realm of the senses and appearance only and appearance is not reality.
Namaskar.
Dear David,
Thanks for the clarification. I have got Kovilur Math publications [so far 4 volumes have come]. There, Maharaja TuRavu is said to have been written by Sri Kumara Devar. For Tattuvaraya, credit has been given to Ajnaivada Bharani and Sasivanna Bodham. I shall look into them in more detail.
Thanks once again.
Tattuvaraya speaks about some 'ghosts' in his Ajnaivadha Bharani.
1. Some ghosts will keep on talking
about 'not two', 'one' and some ghosts will keep blabbering 'three'. Some other ghosts will say yes and stand.
2. Some ghosts will say that there is only Void, some others would say only karmas are important, some ghosts will speak of merits and demerits.
3. Without being in samadhi, and without conquering thought-movements, some ghosts will speak about sastras and fight with each other.
4. Some ghosts will talk about Saivam, Vaishnavam, Saktam etc., and enjoy the skins, while the real fruit is Advaita.
5. Some ghosts will have yoga thandam, books and roam around here and there.
6. Some ghosts will 'teach' their disciples and empty the pockets of those disciples for their food.
"I AM NOT THE BODY"
Vilacheri Rangan [Sri Bhagavan's
school-mate]
Once at Skandasramam, after Sri Bhagavan and I had a bath and He was drying His body with a towel. I noticed that down from His knee to ankle, the skin had peeled off and blood was oozing. I asked Him what the matter was with His leg. He said, He did not know. I asked 'Is it not from your legs that the blood is oozing? You seem to know nothing from about it!' He replied very casually, 'When I was sitting down, the fire from the charcoal brazier in which incense powder was being burnt might have burnt my skin and caused this sore.' I at once sent for some ointment and applied to it to His legs. From this I learned to know, how, completely detached from His body, Sri Bhagavan lived in the Self.
[From the Souvenir celebrating the Advent of Sri Bhagavan, 1996].
d: People practising meditation etc sometimes feel pain in the back and front of the chest. This is stated to be a test by God. Will Bhagaven explain this and say if it is true?
B: There is no Bhagaven outside you and no test is therefore instituted.
"I AM NOT THE BODY."
[From Vilacheri Rangan, Sri Bhagavan's school mate.]
One day, Sri Bhagavan and I went around the Hill by the forest foot path close to the foot of the Hill.
After I had gone a little distance
on that path full of thorns and sharp stones, I ran a thorn into my foot. When I lagged behind Sri
Bhagavan observed me, came to me,
and removed the thorn, and said 'Now there come on'. I proceeded with Him. After a few yards, He
ran a thorn into His foot. Noticing this, I ran up to Him, lifted up His foot and found marks of several thorns there. Then I examined His other foot and found several marks there too. Thereupon, He said, 'Are you going to remove the new thorn or the old thorns?' So saying, with greatest indifference, He pressed His foot on the ground and drew it forward, and the thorn broke. He then proceeded on the Hill round asking me to accompany Him. I was convinced that He was living completely detached from the body. I further imagined that both these incidents were designed by Sri Bhagavan to impress me that Sri Bhagavan was not His body.
[From the Souvenir celebrating the Centenary of Advent, 1996]
" I AM NOT THE BODY"
[from Vilacheri Rangan, Sri Bhagavan's class mate.]
On another occasion, Sri Bhagavan said to me: "You think you are undergoing great troubles. Hear some of mine. I was once climbing the Hill up a precipitous track and when I caught hold of a rock above, the rock slipped down, I fell on my back. The rock that slipped down and other rocks which it brought down fell over me. I managed to remove the rocks that were covering me, and to come out.
Then I found my left thumb was missing from its place, and was hanging near the little finger. I forcibly brought it to its place and fixed there." At that stage in the narration, Sri Bhagavan's Mother came out with the remark, 'Don't ask for that horrid story.
He came with blood all over the body. It was too heart rending
a spectacle." I cannot understand who came and removed the rock, treated His wounds and fixed up the thumb. Who was the Doctor?
[From Souvenir celebrating the Centenary of Advent, 1996]
He is equal to Siva, He is Siva-rupa,
He can grant boons like Siva.
- Sri Ramana Gita.
[from Vilacheri Rangan, Sri Bhagavan's class mate]
One day Sri Bhagavan's Mother told me in His presence, that once when He was standing, she saw various kinds of snakes all over His body,
round His neck, chest, waist, and legs and got terribly frightened. And after a while, the snakes went back to their places. I believe that was one of the visions vouchsafed by Sri Bhagavan, to His Mother to wean her away from the belief that Sri Bhagavan was her son and to impress on her that He was Siva Himself.
[from the Souvenir celebrating Centenary of the Advent, 1996]
HE IS EQUAL TO SIVA, HE IS SIVA RUPA,
HE GRANTS BOONS LIKE SIVA.
- Sri Ramana Gita.
[from Vilacheri Rangan, Sri Bhagavan's school mate]
Oncc at Skandasramam when Sri Bhagavan, His Mother and I alone were present, Mother said as follows:
"At about 10 days ago, at about this time, i.e 10 a.m. as I was looking at Sri Bhagavan, His body disappeared gradually into a Lingam like the one in Tiruchuzhi temple. The Lingam was lustrous. First I could not believe my eyes. I rubbed my eyes and saw. It was the same sight still. I became frightened that He was leaving us. But again gradually His body appeared in place of the Lingam." On hearing this I looked at Sri Bhagavan. He smiled at me. From this I gathred He was confirming Mother's account.
[From the Souvenir celebrating the Centenary of the Advent. 1996].
Subramanian
Do the Kovilur Math editions of Tattuvaraya's poems have a prose rendering or commentary? Many of his verses are very hard to understand.
If not, do you know of any other editions that have explanatory material?
Dear David.
The Kovilur Editions of all the 16
Vedanta Tamizh texts with brief
meanings, [not word to word meanings] are available, but for 2 volumes, in Isanya Math of
Tiruvannamalai, on the eastern girivalam road.
There is a glass almirah where they
keep a few copies of each volume. So far four volumes have come.
Volume I:
1. Naanaa Jiva Vadha KattaLai [Seshadri Sivanar]
2. Gita Sara Thaalattu. [Tiruvenkata Nathar]
3. Sasi vanna Bodham [Tattva Raya]
Volume II:
1. Maharajah Turavu [Kumara Devar]
2. Vairagya Satakam. [Santhalinga
SwamigaL.]
3. Vairagya Deepam.[Santhalinga
SwamigaL.]
Volume III:
1. Lakshna Vritti. [Chidambara Jnana Desikar]
2. Vedanta Choodamani {ThuRaimangalam Sivaprakasa Swamigal.]
3. Kaivalya Navaneetam.
{Nannilam Tandavaraya SwamigaL.]
Volume IV:
1. Viveka Choodamani [Ulaganatha
SwamigaL][
2. Ajani vadha Bharani. [Tattvaraya]
3. Iswara Gita.
[Tattvaraya]
The V and VI volumes will contain:
These are not yet available in Isanya Math. Whether publishing has been done or not, I do not know.
1. Panchadasi [Nityananda Veera
Subbaiah SwamigaL.]
2. Bhagavad Gita [Pattnar Venba]
3. Brahma Gita [by Tattva Raya]
4. Jnana Vasishtam [Veerai AaLa
Vandhar's composition]
Each volume costs between Rs 150 to Rs. 200/-. The volumes can be bought separately also.
The Kovilur Math address is:
Kovilur Matalayam
Kovilur - 630 307.
The song from Maharaja Turavu,
mentioned by Sri Bhagavan, in Talks.
No. 648, 17.03.1939, is the 64th verse in Maharaja Turvau. [main text].
Poo anai aahi vaanam porunthu mel katti aahi,
Theevam athu aahi, indu sengathir veesum katru,
Mevu samaram aahi vidhuthali manaivi aahik
Kevalam inbam aahi kiLarchiyai
ninRaan vendhan.
This earth is the bed, the space is the upper dome [vidhanam], moon and the sun are the lights, the natural breeze is kavari [fan], the determination of having left all the attachments, is thw wife
-- with these, the king was in
the bliss of Eka swarupam.
Silence is the true upadesa (teaching).
It is the perfect upadesa. It is suited
only for the most advanced seeker.
The others are unable to draw
full inspiration from it.
Therefore they require words to
explain the truth. But truth is beyond
words. It does not admit of explanation.
All that is possible to do is to indicate it.
- Sri Ramana Maharshi
glow
R.subramanaian/friends,
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi,Talk 648:
17th March, 1939
Talk 648.
Sri Bhagavan said that Tatva rAyar was the first to pour forth
Advaita philosophy in Tamil.
He had said that the Earth was his bed, his hands were his plates
for taking food, the loin cloth was his clothing and thus there was
no want for him.
In Maharaja Turavu (the renunciation of the king) he says: He was
seated on the bare ground, the earth was his seat, the mind was the
chamara; the sky was the canopy; and renunciation was his spouse:
Then Sri Bhagavan continued: I had no cloth spread on the floor in
earlier days. I used to sit on the floor and lie on the ground. That
is freedom. The sofa is a bondage. It is a gaol for me. I am not
allowed to sit where and how I please. Is it not bondage?
One must be free to do as one pleases, and should not be served
by others.
‘No want’ is the greatest bliss. It can be realised only by experience.
Even an emperor is no match for a man with no want. The emperor
has got vassals under him. But the other man is not aware of anyone
beside the Self. Which is better?
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Yes. I went through both English version [original] of Munagala and also the Tamizh translation of Viswanatha Swami. In both it is said that Sri Bhagavan said: "he [Tattvaraya] has said in Maharaja Turavu....."
Sri Bhagavan can never be incorrect. All His conversations are sayings of Truth. Hence, the recorder might have mixed up.
What Sri Bhagavan might have said:
1. Tattvaraya was the first to pour forth Advaita philosophy in Tamizh.
2. He might have then added:
In Maharaja Turavu.....
Recently I went through English rendering of Maharaja Turavu, by Swami Tanmayananda Saraswati [serialized since three or four issues of Mountain Path] where he also says that it is by Kumara Devar SwamigaL.
I firmly believe that Sri Bhagavan
had not given incorrect information.
R.subramanaian,
I atotally agree in that Sri Bhagavan is always accurate and it may well be the compiler's lack of fidelity in recording the talks.
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan says in Talks No. 262
about one Madhva Saint Tattvaroyar, who had compsed a bharani on his master Swarupanand. Pandits objected to this composition, saying that it [bharani compositions] was reserved to such as having killed more than a thousand elephants in battle, whereas Swarupananda was an idle man sitting somewhere unknown to people and he did not deserve that panegyric. Tattvaroyar asked them all to assemble before his master so that they might see for themselves if he could slay one thousand elephants at a time. They did so.
As soon as they [Swarupananda and Tattvoroyar] appeared, they [the pandits] were struck dumb and remained in beatific peace for a few days without the least movement. When they regained their senses, they saluted both the Master and the disciple, saying that they were more than satisfied. Swarupananada excelled the warriors in that he could subdue the egos, which is more formidable task than slaying a thousand elephants. Maharshi said that the moral was clear. Peace is the sole criterion of a Mahatma's Presence.
[There is one Tamizh composition called Kalingathu Bharani for a king who had killed 1000 elephants in a battle.]
Friends,
An excerpt from Letters from Sri Ramanasramam:
8th April, 1948
(174) THE SACREDNESS OF THE FEET
OF THE GURU
This afternoon when I went to Bhagavan, I found
someone singing a song, “Guru pada mahima”. After the
singing was over, looking at me, Bhagavan said: “These songs
have been written by Tatvarayaswami. You have heard of
the sacredness of the feet of the Guru, haven’t you?” “Yes. I
have heard the songs. As the meaning of the songs is
profound I thought some great personage must have written
them,” I said. “Yes. There is a story behind it,” remarked
Bhagavan. When I enquired what it was, Bhagavan leisurely
related to us the story as follows:
“Both Tatvarayar and Swarupanandar decided to go
in search of a Sadguru in two different directions. Before
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 386
they started they came to an understanding. Whoever
finds a Sadguru first should show him to the other.
However much Tatvarayar searched he could not find a
Sadguru. Swarupanandar, who was the uncle of Tatvarayar
was naturally an older man. He went about for some time,
got tired, and rested in a place. Feeling he could no longer
go about in search, he prayed to the Lord, ‘Oh Ishwara!
I can no longer move about. So you yourself should send
me a Sadguru’. Having placed the burden on the Lord, he
sat down in silence. By God’s grace, a Sadguru came there
by himself, and gave him tatva upadesa (Instruction for
Self-Realization). It is the gist of that upadesa that got
composed as a song, named Tatva-saram. That book has
been published with a commentary and is very famous.
The understanding arrived at by the uncle and his
nephew, could not be implemented as the Guru passed
away soon after. Under the circumstances, the uncle
himself gave upadesa (instruction) to his nephew.
Swarupanandar wrote only one book but Tatvarayar sang
innumerable songs; amongst them “Gurupada mahima”
is one. Though many other songs also are available, now
several have been lost.”
Namaskar.
Ravi and others
There is an account of Sorupananda and Tattuvaraya on my site (http://www.davidgodman.org/tamilt/sorupasaram.shtml)along with a translation of Sorupa Saram.
Sadhu Natananda quotes some Sorupa
Saram verses in his Sri Ramana Darsanam, [Tr. David Godman], in
Chapter 46 (a) of the said book.
1. To the Jnani who has become Sivam,
having seen the entire universe as his own Self and as the form of Consciousness, what is there that should be sifted and rejected, and what is there that should be accepted as proper?
The Jnani has become one, tranquil
and blemishless. He has everything beginning with sky as his own form, Actions he abandons become prohibited actions, and actions he takes up become proper actions.
2. In the waking state, we shall
witness the dances of the ten senses. In dream we shall see the
dance of the mind. In thought-free sleep, we shall perform void-dance of non existence and ever remain as the
exalted reality.
Again in Chapter 37 of Sri Ramana
Darsanam, [tr. David Godman]:
If the mind turned within towards the light of the Self, and if it is not turned outwards, it will be possible for everyone in this world, to see the Self in the way I have seen my Self.
Again in Chapter 35 of Sri Ramana
Darsanam, Sadhu Natanananda quotes,
[tr. David Godman]
Even if one studies books on Jnana,
takes to Sannyasa and strives to attain Samadhi, the indescribable bliss of Mukti is [attained] only
[by] becoming the Self and remaining without anxieties.
Sri Bhagavan used to walk on the Hill every morning and evening. One evening, instead of His usual short walk He went up to Skandasramam. When He did not return at the usual time, some devotees went up the Hill in search of Him and some others gathered in small clusters discussing where He might have gone, what it meant and what to do about it. Others sat in the Hall waiting.
Meanwhile, a band of monkeys approached the darshan hall. A number of them sat outside while the other monkeys remained at their usual place and peeped in through the bars of the window near Sri Bhagavan's couch. But two of them eager to see Sri Bhagavan,
fearlessly stepped inside and looked anxiously at the empty couch. When the monkeys came to know about the empty couch, the whole clan began to jump and scream!
{Bhagavan Ramana - The Friend of All.}
Mr. B.C. Das, the physics lecturer,
asked: "Contemplation is possible only with control of mind and control can be accomplished only by contemplation. Is it not a vicious circle?"
Sri B: Yes. They are inter dependent. They must go on side by side. Practice and dispassion bring about the result gradually. Dispassion is practiced to check the mind from being projected outward, practice is to keep it turned inward. There is a struggle between control and contemplation. It is going on constantly within. Contemplation will in due course be successful.
Devotee: How to begin? Your Grace is needed for it.
Sri B: Grace is always there. 'Dispassion cannot be acquired, nor realization of the truth, nor inherence in the Self, in the absence of Guru's Grace.' the Master quoted.
Practice is necessary. It is like training a roguish bull confined to his stall by tempting him with
luscious grass and preventing him from straying.
Then the Master read out a stanza from Tiruvachakam, Tirukkottumbi, which is an address to the mind, saying: O humming bee [namely the mind]! Why do you take the pains
of collecting tiny specks of honey from innumerable flowers? There is one from whom you can the whole storehouse of honey by simply drinking or seeing or seeking of Him. Get within and hum to Him [hrimkara].
Do not sip the nectar,
tiny as a millet seed
found in any flower,
but speed to that mystic dancer
and hum the praise of Him, King Bee,
He who, whenever we behold Him,
whenever we speak of Him,
perpetually pours forth the honeyed bliss
that melts all our bones to the core.
Thinaithanai uLLathor poovinil then uNNathe....Tirukottumbi, Verse 3.
[From MP- April-June 2006. From an article Sri Bhagavan and Manikkavachagar, David Godman, Robert Butler and Dr. T.V. Venkatasubramanian.]
Mrs. Eleanor Pauline Noye is an
American devotee came to Sri Bhagavan sometime in 1940s. After a stay of about two months with Sri Bhagavn, she had to return to America and was weeping inconsolably.
Sri Bhagavan was kind enough to assure her in so many words, she did not stop crying. Sri Bhagavan further consoled her saying that He would be with her wherever she might go. Devaraja Mudaliar who had noticed Mrs. Noye often weeping before Sri Bhagavan when she was in the Hall. Referring to this Mudaliar told Sri Bhagavan that Mrs. Noye had captured Sri Bhagavan by means of her tears. At that time, Sri Bhagavan quoted the famous verse in Tiruvachakam, Tiru Sadakam, Verse 10.
Yaane poi en nenjum poi en anbum
poi,
Aanal vinaiyen azhuthal unnai
peRalame,
Thene amudhe karumbin theLive
tithikkum,
Maane aruLai adiyen unai vanthu
uRumaRe.
False am I; heart too is false,
and my love also is false.
Yet, bound by tainted karma,
I can win You by crying for You,
Honey! Nectar! Essence of sugar
cane!
Sweet Lord! Grant to me in grace,
your devotee,
the path that leads to union with
Thee!
[Devaraja Mudaliar, My Recollections of Sri Bhagavan Ramana; Sri Bhagavan and Manikkavachagar, article in MP Jan-March 2006, David Godman, Robert Butler and Dr. T.V. Venkatasrubamanian.
*
There is one equally moving song
in Tiruvachakam, Ananda Maalai,
Verse 5. Thaayai mulaiyai tharuvane....
"There must be stages of progress for gaining the Absolute. Are there
grades of Reality?"
Sri B: There are no grades of Reality. There are grades in the experience of the Jiva.
'Grades of Reality?' Reality is perfect because it is partless, integral, and changeless, or else it contradicts itself. So Reality is not affected by evolution, nor is it divisible into a number of imperfect beings who need the evolution to attain perfection. We have seen elsewhere that the Jiva is the Self itself, but deluded. The appearance of multiplicity of Jivas is an illusion due to the unfoldment of the senses which create qualities and hence differences. Sri Bhagavan says that it is not the Self that has grades but the experiences of the Jivas. Thus the difference between the savage and a Jnani is one of experience, that is of mental outlooks and not substance - of Being.
[Reflections on Talks - S.S. Cohen.]
"There is a multiplicity of Jivas.
Jivas are certainly many?"
Sri Bhagavan: Jiva is called so because he sees the world. A dreamer sees many Jivas in dream. But all of them are not real. The dreamer alone exists and he sees all. So is with individuals and the world."
This is lucid enough to need no comment, except applying it also to the common world, where all men perceive the same objects, same colors, same sounds, same heat or cold, etc., The critics argue that is the world is the senses, as Vedanta says, individual senses would show exclusively worlds, so that there would be as many worlds as there are human beings with no connection with one another, which experience disproves. Sri Bhagavan answers that all the senses, all the men and all the worlds are the dreams or thoughts of the Jiva, which alone exists as the dreamer or thinker. As the Jiva in dream sees other Jivas with bodies and senses, without any of them enjoying real existence, so it does in the waking state, Jagrat. Jagrat is called waking only in comparison with the dream state known to us, because the senses are then all out to intensify the illusion of a real external world, whereas the dream state feeds on mere impressions carried over from the state of Jagrat, and not on the senses, which are then withdrawn.
[Reflections on Talks - S.S. Cohen]
"If the Self is one, when a man is liberated, all men must also be liberated."
Sri Bhagavan:
"Ego, world, and individuals all appear due to the personal vasanas; when these perish, the person's hallucinations also perish... The fact is that the Self is never bound and thus there can be no release."
In the last text, Sri Bhagavan declares that the multiplicity of Jivas perceived in the waking state do not, like the dream Jivas, really exist. When the vasanas perish at Liberation, the hallucinations of other Jivas' existence also perish, so that the question of their Liberation will evidently not arise.
[Reflections on Talks - S.S. Cohen.]
Hi Guys!
Had been to Annamalai for Sivaratri, and, of course, it was awesome. Returned from it just today. Grabbed "Ramana Sannidhi Murai"... there is one verse that is printed on the back cover and I made up my mind to buy it... Here it goes!
"Look my friends, just look at him
Enjoying bliss
With that other woman, Mukti,
Abandoning me, poor me,
To grievous suffering,
Me here dying, sore lamenting!
Venkata, the king who used to fill
With nectar every pore of every bone."
I had read a couple of verses from the book randomly on my prev visit and this visit to. But it was this verse that made me buy it! Was totally bowled over! Just wanted to share this verse with you guys here.
David/Friends,
Thanks very much for that translation of soroopa sAram.Here is an excerpt that is the essence of Discipline and sadhana:
76 Question: How to be rid of desires?
Answer: Through desire for realisation of the truth.
O desire! Though I suffered much through you, on account of your help I dwelt in the Self. I reached the Sadguru through you. In liberation I have, along with you, become the Self. I swear to this.
77 Question: How to destroy anger?
Answer Through tranquillity.
O anger! Through you I rid myself of my deficiency. Because of the weariness experienced by your rising that invariably produced misery, I rid myself of this danger
6 The wide disparity between his previous wretched state and the state of knowledge makes the author wonder at the greatness of the Guru’s grace that accomplished the transformation, and how little he deserved it.
and dwelt in supreme tranquillity. Even in dream, do not rise up in lamentation, but remain calm.
78 Question: How to get rid of avarice?
Answer: By abiding peacefully in the Self.
O avarice! I took you as my relation. Those who do not know the truth say that your form is only sin. You will exert yourself hard merely to accumulate. O sinner! Because of you I am now possessed by peace.
79 Question: How to dissolve the mind?
Answer: It should be dissolved in the Self, which is its basis.
O mind! I myself am you. You yourself are me. Despite being so, deceitfully you forgot me. That I am surrendered to you is also true. But do not remain different from me, the reality.
80 [The same answer continues in verses 80, 81 and 82.]
My mind! You roamed about, laboured hard and learned many arts, seeking a way to make a living. You sought and gave me a Sadguru. To you who were so considerate to me, what help did I render in return?
81 O mind! Just as I once remained, assuming your form, now you have come and merged with me as my own form. Is there anyone like you who values the virtue of gratitude? Dwell henceforth in the loving care of the supreme state, without returning to your prior form.
82 O mind! You remained, right from the beginning, without renouncing love towards me. Through that love you gave me the benefit of cultivating all the virtues of a devotee, beginning with forbearance. You removed desire and its progeny. Now, like me, you remain still through good and proper discernment."
As the Gita says that one's mind in chapter 6,verse 6:
For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy.
Namaskar.
David,
Looks like this Open thread is long enough and has reached its limit.As I continued to post my next one on Ms noye,the entire page no.4 of this thread displayed junk characters.I managed to delete the last post by navigating backward.Need to open a fresh 'open thread'?
Namaskar.
Dear Maneesha,
Very very happy to learn that you had been to Tiruvannamalai for Maha Sivaratri. Could you keep awake and listen to night long parayana etc.,?
It must have been a blissful experience.
I am also glad that you have bought
Sri Ramana Sanndihi MuRai, Homage
to the Presnce of Sri Ramana, by
Prof. K. Swaminathan. Though only some verses have been translated, it is still a good buy to read.
The verse you quoted comes under VaNdu Vidu Thoodhu, Sending the Bee as a messenger. This is the 81st composition in Tamizh Sri
Ramana Sannidhi MuRai. A lady-love sends the bee to go to Siva and do rinkaram [sounds] about her suffering and separation. The translator has rendered in English 2 out of 10 verses. This is a nice book to read.
A rough translation of Verse 8 in the same decad, not done by Swaminathan reads:
Like an elephant which has consumed the Indian apple,
He took away my prana and ate it. [here it means ego];
He is like a cat, he is like a tiger; [both tender and rough]
My mind is lost and I am wailing;
This Venkata, has melted my flesh and melted my mind, this lowly girl,
Has been 'stolen' by this tricky chap;
O bee, bring him and give him to me.
salutations to all:
David: would it be possible to give some kind-of an 'identifier' to the 'Open Thread'(s) you will be starting in the future, say, either by a 'roman numeral' or by a 'date reference' etc.? that also may help in referring any important content discussed earlier by you and/or others thereby saving on repetition etc.
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