The previous 'Open Thread' appear to be malfunctioning by posting each comment twice. I am starting a new one to see if that solves the problem.
I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.
If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.
I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.
If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.
5,000 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 3601 – 3800 of 5000 Newer› Newest»Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 103:
The next day Sri Bhagavan said: These people want some japa, dhyana, or yoga or something similar. Without their saying what they have been doing so far, what more can be said to them? Again, why japa, its phalasruti etc.,? Who is it that makes the japa? Who gets fruits thereof? Can they not look to the Self? Or again, even if instructed by others to do japa or dhyana, they do it for some time, but are always looking to some results, e.g visions, dreams, or thaumaturgic powers. If they do not find them, they say they are not progressing or the tapas is not effective. Visions, etc., are no signs of progress. Mere performance of taps is its progress also. Steadiness is what is required. Moreover, they must entrust themselves to their mantra or their
God and wait for its Grace. They don't do so. Japa even once uttered has its own good effect, whether the individual is aware or not.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 251:
........
........
Devotee: Do we not see God in concrete form?
Maharshi: Yes. God is seen in the mind. The concrete form may be seen. Still it is only in the devotee's mind. The form and appearance of God-manifestation are determined by the mind of the devotee. But it is not the finality. There is the sense of duality.
It is like a dream-vision. After God is perceived, vichara commences. That ends in Realization of the Self. Vichara is the ultimate route.
Of course, a few find Vichara practicable. Others find bhakti easier.
Devotee: Did not Mr. Brunton find you in London? Was it only a dream?
Maharshi: Yes. He had the vision. He saw me in his mind.
Devotee: Did he not see this concrete form?
Maharshi: Yes, still in his mind.
...........
...........
*******
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 304:
A Swiss lady described photism she had to Sri Bhagavan. While she was sitting with her eyes wide open, she saw Sri Bhagavan's face becoming cherub-like and draped in glorious flowers. She was drawn in love towards the childlike face.
Maharshi: The vision is in your mind. Your love is the cause. Paul Brunton saw me as a giant figure; you saw me like a child. Both are visions.
(The lady said: Paul Brunton asked me if I had any spiritual experience here, and I denied it. Now this happens.)
Maharshi: Do not be deceived by visions.
Devotee: If one is miles away in Europe and invokes your aid...
Maharshi: Where is Europe? It is in you.
Devotee: I have come here; I would like Maharshi to come there. (Saying it, she laughed gently. Silence for some minutes.)
Maharshi: ....... Space is in you. The physical body is in space, but not you.
Paul Brunton had his eyes closed when he saw the vision. Whereas you had your eyes open, you say.
Devotee: Yes. But I have never had vision; whereas he is a psychic.
After a few minutes she asked if it is an advantage or a disadvantage to see visions like this.
Maharshi: It is an advantage.
Sri Bhagavan continued: Probably you had been thinking of a child and that appeared in the vision....
Devotee: Yes. Only of Siva. -- of His child like face....
Maharshi: That's it.
Devotee: But Siva is the Destroyer.
...(meaning, not a child).
Maharshi: Yes. -- of sorrows.
After a few minutes, Sri Bhagavan continued: You will shortly go to sleep. When you wake up in the morning, you will say, 'I slept well and happily'. What happened in sleep is your real nature. That continues now too; otherwise it will not be your real nature. Get the state of sleep even now. It is Siva.
.......
Sri Bhagavan: Being without the body you were happy too in sleep. You are the same now. That which is enduring must alone be the real nature. There was no body but only experience of happiness in sleep. That endures now too. The Self is bodiless. If you are thus without the body how can Siva be with the body? If you are with body, Siva also is with the body. If you are not, He also is not.
Devotee: Why is He then Siva?
Maharshi: Siva means embodiment of happiness -- of auspiciousness.
She was very pleased. After a time she left.
******
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 305:
The visitors were talking among themselves and one of them said:
"We, though familiar with our traditional teachings, are unable to follow these teachings (meaning Sri Bhagavan's). How can the foreigners unfamiliar with our ways follow Sri Bhagavan's teachings so easily?
He seemed to sympathize with their attempts to understand us in spit of their handicaps, and also to pity them for want of proper equipment.
Sri Bhagavan remarked finally: Visions are better than no visions. They get interested in that way. They do not take to foreign ideas. When once they do it, they stick on. So much for their merits.
Sri Bhagavan later referred to Sivaprakasam Pillai's vision.
"Visions are not external. They appear only internally. If external they must assert themselves without there being a seer. In that case, what is the warranty for their existence? The seer only.
*******
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 317:
Devotee: Many visitors here tell me that they get visions or thought currents from you. I am here for the last month and a half and still I have not the slightest experience of any kind. Is it because I am unworthy of your Grace? If so, I feel it disgraceful that I being Vasishtakulaotpanna (of the lineage of Sage Vasishta) should not have your grace, while far off foreigners should have it. Will you kindly suggest some prayaschitta (method of expiation) for removing this disgrace?
Maharshi: Visions and thought currents are had according to the state of mind. It depends on the individuals and not upon the Universal Presence. Moreover, they are immaterial. What matters is Peace of Mind.
Devotee: Peace of mind is the result of trance. How is trance got?
Maharshi: Trance is only absence of thoughts. That state prevails in sleep. Do you have enduring peace of mind on that account?
Devotee: It is said in the journal maintained in the Asramam that trance is necessary.
Maharshi: Trance is not something apart to be got anew. Your natural state is that of trance.
Devotee: But I do not feel it.
Maharshi: The fact of your contrary belief is the obstruction.
.........
.........
*******
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text -
Verse 5:
udal pancha kosa uru adhanAl einthum
udal ennum sollil odungum - udalanRi
uNdo ulaham udal vittu ulakathai
kaNdAr uLaro kazhaRu.
The body is a form made up of five sheaths. Hence the single term 'body' includes all the five sheaths. In the state of absence of a body, can there be perception of the world appearance? Is the world ever seen by anyone without identifying oneself with a body as 'I'?
The earlier verse clearly proves that we ascribe a form to the world and God because we consider ourselves as the form. We limit ourselves to the form of our body with which limiting line we confine ourselves in and lave God and world out. without the notion of 'I' in the body, the world appears not. Whatever be the world one perceives, a dream world, a mental world, or the apparently real world - the perceiver perceives himself as a body in that world. Hence it is emphasized in the first verse itself that the perceiver is part of the perceived. As the mind alone cognizes the world through the five senses, in the absence of the mind, there is not world. The body includes the mind and the various
sheaths as well.
The sheaths are five in number, all veiling the true Self. They are so called because they veil or envelop the true Self. They are annamaya kosa (the food sheath), pranamaya kosa (the vital sheath), manomaya kosa (the sheath of intellect) and anandamaya kosa (the sheath of bliss). Annamaya kosa, is the gross physical body. This is perceptible to the eyes, while pranamaya and manomaya cannot be seen. But pranamaya kosa manifests in breath and can be felt. Pranamaya kosa is alone the seat of karmendriyas, controlling the organs of actions of grasping, speech, locomotion, excretion and generation. Manomaya kosa is even more subtle than pranamaya, and the mental world can be known only by thoughts. It is the seat of sankalpas (resolutions) and vikalpas (indecisions). Pranamaya kosa (the vital sheath) connects the annamaya kosa and manomaya kosa. Vijnanamaya kosa is the field of action of Jnanendriyas, (the organs of perception) and is the seat of Chittam (memory), buddhi (intellect) and ahankaram (ego).
Anandamaya kosa is the sheath of ignorance or ajnana or deep sleep. This alone remains when all the others subside in deep sleep. As sleep is blissful, it is called Anandamaya kosa. On waking, the 'I' asserts itself, identifying itself with the body and mind, and claiming things as 'mine', functions as before, and the bondage of samsara is experienced as pleasure and pain.
continued....
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru NaRaiyur chitticharam -
612 102:
This temple can be reached from Kumbakonam by bus. Chitti means Siddhi and chitta means Siddha. There is a special shrine for a Siddha in this temple. Devotees do milk abhishekam for this Siddha idol for getting cure from diseases.
Siva is called Siddhanadeswara. Uma is called Azhagambika. The holy waters (tirtham) are a tank called Brahma tirtham. The holy tree (Sthala Viruksham) is a type of jasmine, where the tail is red like coral, called PavaLa Malligai.
Saint Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 33 of his verses and Sundaramurti Swami in 11 of his verses.
There is also a special shrine for Saturn, where the idol of Saturn is accompanied by his wife Jeshta and two sons, Gulikan and MAndha.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks 389:
.......
.......
Maharshi: By long practice the figure of God, as meditated upon, appears in dream and may later appear in Jagrat also.
Devotee: Is that the state of God realization?
Maharshi: Listen to what happened once, years ago.
There was a saint by name Namdev. He could see, talk and play with Vithoba as we do with one another. He used to spend most of his time in the temple playing with Vithoba.
On one occasion, the saints had assembled together, among whom was one Jnanadev of well established fame and eminence. Jnandev asked Gora Kumbhar ( a potter saint ) to use his proficiency in testing the soundness of baked pots and find out which of the assembled saints was properly baked clay. So Gora Kumbhar took his stick and gently struck each one's head in joke as if to test. When he came to Namdev, the latter protested in a huff; all laughed and hooted. Namdev was enraged and he sought Vithoba in the temple. Vithoba said that the saints knew best; this unexpected reply upset Namdev all the more.
He said: You are God. I converse and play with you. Can there be anything more to be gained by man?
Vithoba persisted. The saints know.
Namdev: Tell me if there is anything more real than you.
Vithoba: We have been familiar with each other that my advice will not have the desired effect on you. Seek the beggar saint in the forest and know the Truth.
Accordingly, Namdev sought out the particular saint mentioned by Vithoba. Namdev was not impressed with the holiness of the man for he was nude, dirty and was lying on the floor with his feet resting on a linga. Namdev wondered how this could be a saint. The saint, on the other hand, smiled on Namdev and asked: Did Vithoba send you here? This was a great surprise to Namdev who was now more inclined to believe the man to be great. So Namdev asked him: You are said to be a saint, why do you desecrate the linga? The saint replied: Indeed I am too old to do the right thing. Please lift my feet and place them where there is no linga.
Namdev accordingly lifted the saint's feet and placed them elsewhere. But there was again a linga below them! Wherever the feet were placed then and there appeared a linga underneath! Namdev finally placed the feet on himself and he turned into a linga! Then Namdev understood that God was immanent and learnt the truth and departed. He went home and did not go to the temple for several days. Vithoba now sought him out in his home and asked why Namdev would not go to the temple to see God. Namdev said: Is there a place, where He is not?
The moral of the story is clear. Visions of God have their place below the plane of Self Realization.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 393:
Devotee: There is a short account of the spiritual experiences of St. Theresa, in the March number of the Prabuddha Bharata. She was devoted to a figure of the Madonna which became animated to her sight and she was in bliss. Is it the same as Saktipata?
Maharshi: The animated figure indicates depth of meditation. Saktipata prepares the mind for introversion. There is a process of concentration of mind on one's own shadow which in due course becomes animated and answers questions put to it. That is due to strength of mind or depth of meditation. Whatever is external is also transitory. Such phenomena may produce joy for the time being. But abiding peace, Shanti, does not result. This is got only by the removal of avidya, ignorance.
******
R.Subramanian,
I find the mapping of Pancha Koshas to the 3 states of waking,Dream and sleep state is not correct.
To say that one in sleep state is in Anandamaya Kosha is not correct any more than to say that one Awake is not in anandamaya Kosha.
I also find that the description of the prAnamaya ,ManOmaya and VijnAnamaya Koshas more inferential than experiential.
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 407:
Devotee: St. Theresa and others saw the image of Madonna animated. It was external. Others see images of their devotion in the mental sight. This is internal. Is there any difference in degree in these two cases?
Maharshi: Both indicate that the person has strongly developed meditation. Both are good and progressive. There is no difference in degree.
The one has a conception of divinity and draws mental images and feels them. The other has the conception of divinity in the image and feels it in the image. The feeling is within in both instances.
******
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text -
Verse 5:
continues.....
In anandamaya sarira, or causal body, the ego subsides as a seed and, impelled by the strength of karmas and vasanas (innate proclivities), rise up again. No one remaining in the most subtle sheath of anandamaya, though enjoying bliss, wakes up as Jnani, gaining the experience of being the Atman. The causal body, or anandyamaya sarira, has also to be transcended while awake if one were to gain Jnana.
These five sheaths are divided into three bodies, namely, the sthula sarira - the gross body, the sukshuma sarira - the subtle body, and the karana sariara - the causal body. The gross body consists of the food sheath, and the subtle body comprises of the next three sheaths, viz., pranamaya, manomaya and vijnanamaya. Causal body, or nescience, is anandamaya kosa.
It is pertinent to note that this is the only place where Sri Bhagavan refers to the panchakosas.
On physical death, the four sheaths other than the food sheath do not die, but go through countless births getting another food sheath as per the karma, whirling in samsara, experiencing the fruits of actions, good and bad. Endowed with these five sheaths and the three bodies, the jiva experiences the external world in the waking state. In dream world, the gross body does not function but the other two are active. While enjoyment of the wakeful state are gross, those of dream world are subtle.
In deep sleep, neither the gross objects of the external world nor the subtle ones of the dream world exist. But the causal body, or nescience, persists, on account of which we dream and wake up again.
The ego, or the consciousness, I am the body, is the first to rise giving rise to the world. Whatever be the kind of world perceived, it depends upon the type of body that is dominant for the time being. Be it the external world during wakefulness, or dream world or the world of mind, hell or heaven, the perceiver sees himself in that
perceived world as a body. It is the experienced truth of everyone that one without a form cannot see the world. In order to set at rest the possible objection that may be raised what while perceiving the dream world the gross body lies insentient, the first part of the verse clarifies that besides the gross body there are others, like the subtle and causal.
continued.....
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 5:
continues...
The body that perceives the world in the wakeful state cannot apprehend the dream body. The perceiver of the dream world cannot apprehend the external world. Therefore, perception of a world depends upon the embodiment of the awareness that so perceives. Everyone who perceives the world in any state (waking / dream) is embodied in any one of the five sheaths. None who is not embodied in any of these cognizes the world. Without embodiment of any kind, the jiva, who identifies himself with any one of the embodiments, will cease to be a perceiver or knower. In that distinction-less state, called turiya, there is no knowing-consciousness (subject) and an object. There is only Consciousness; that being the case, to whom will the phenomenon of world appear?
Thus, it is made clear that whichever sheath the jiva is in, the respective world is seen by him. Even if one sheath remains, there will be a world, and the Self cannot be said to be body-less. The Self being formless, shines only when all the upadhis or kosas are jettisoned. Thus, the body is not the Self and the world appears only in nescience is made abundantly clear.
One should gain mukti through inquiry, crushing the ego in Vijnana maya kosa and promote Atma Vichara, or Self Inquiry, for sleep drowns the enquirer in the nescience of sleep itself. One cannot release oneself from its clutches, much less enquire unless it pushes one out by itself.
Sleep, dream and wakefulness keep alternating in nescience, in all of which any one or more sheaths will be veiling the Atman. That state that has transcended all the five sheaths is called turiya, the fourth state. This egoless state is the only waking state. When, through inquiry, the Self is uncovered, the mind is dissolved, the Self, identical with Brahman, alone shines without a second, without the samsaric world. Once the causal body, containing vasanas in subtle seed form, is destroyed, one expands as the limitless, all pervading, formless space of Consciousness. In the formless state, from where will the world with form appear and to whom? 'Is there one who has seen the world in that bodiless state? You tell me', asks Sri Bhagavan. ( udalanRi uNdo ulakam udal vittu ulakathai kaNdAr uLaro kazharu ).
continued......
(Sources: as mentioned in the comments of previous verses.)
****
Friends,
An Excerpt from Swami Vivekananda's 'Raja Yoga':
"First is the conscious plane, in which all work is always accompanied with
the feeling of egoism. Next comes the unconscious plane, where all work is
unaccompanied by the feeling of egoism. That part of mind - work which is
unaccompanied with the feeling of egoism is unconscious work, and that
part which is accompanied with the feeling of egoism is conscious work. In
the lower animals this unconscious work is called instinct. In higher animals,
and in the highest of all animals, man, what is called conscious work
prevails.
But it does not end here. There is a still higher plane upon which the mind
can work. It can go beyond consciousness. Just as unconscious work is
beneath consciousness, so there is another work which is above
consciousness, and which also is not accompanied with the feeling of
egoism. The feeling of egoism is only on the middle plane. When the mind
is above or below that line, there is no feeling of "I", and yet the mind
works. When the mind goes beyond this line of self - consciousness, it is
called Samadhi or superconsciousness. How, for instance, do we know that a
man in Samadhi has not gone below consciousness, has not degenerated
instead of going higher? In both cases the works are unaccompanied with
egoism. The answer is, by the effects, by the results of the work, we know
that which is below, and that which is above. When a man goes into deep
sleep, he enters a plane beneath consciousness. He works the body all the
time, he breathes, he moves the body, perhaps, in his sleep, without any
accompanying feeling of ego; he is unconscious, and when he returns from
his sleep, he is the same man who went into it. The sum total of the
knowledge which he had before he went into the sleep remains the same; it
does not increase at all. No enlightenment comes. But when a man goes into
Samadhi, if he goes into it a fool, he comes out a sage.
What makes the difference? From one state a man comes out the very same
man that he went in, and from another state the man comes out enlightened,
a sage, a prophet, a saint, his whole character changed, his life changed,
illumined. These are the two effects. Now the effects being different, the
causes must be different. As this illumination with which a man comes back
from Samadhi is much higher than can be got from unconsciousness, or
much higher than can be got by reasoning in a conscious state, it must,
therefore, be superconsciousness, and Samadhi is called the superconscious
state."
Namaskar.
Friends,
A Practical tip from Swamiji's Raja Yoga:
The first lesson is just to breathe in a measured way,
in and out. That will harmonise the system. When you have practised this for
some time, you will do well to join to it the repetition of some word as
"Om," or any other sacred word. In India we use certain symbolical words
instead of counting one, two, three, four. That is why I advise you to join the
mental repetition of the "Om," or some other sacred word to the Pranayama.
Let the word flow in and out with the breath, rhythmically, harmoniously,
and you will find the whole body is becoming rhythmical. Then you will
learn what rest is. Compared with it, sleep is not rest. Once this rest comes
the most tired nerves will be calmed down, and you will find that you have
never before really rested."
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru marugal - 609 702.
This temple can be reached from Kumbakonam or Tiru marugal by bus.
Siva is called MaNikkavaNNar. Uma is called VaNdAr kuzhalammai, one whose tresses are reached by bees for the honey in the flowers worn.
The holy waters (tirtham) are a tank called Sivaganga. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Vanni tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar raised the dead girl child of one Chetty (trader) by singing a decad on Siva. The child had been stung by a serpent. There is a special shrine for Ganesa called Nanju tirtha PiLLaiyar, one who removed the poison. There are also shrines for one Siva Lingam called Marugal udaiyAr and for Uma called Soundara NAyaki.
Tiru Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 21 of his verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 21 of his verses.
kondhAr kuvaLai kulavum marugal
enthAi thagumo ivaLe saRave...
(2.82)
O the Lord wearing kuvaLai garland!
Is it okay, O Father, for this girl child to die?
*****
Dear Ravi,
I am not very sure about these classifications. This is what Smt.Kanakammal says in her commentary. Perhaps David can clarify the matter.
Subramanian. R
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 5:
continues....
The life span of the physical sheath is roughly 100 years, that of the subtle body is the duration of a Yuga, otherwise called Brahma Kalpa. During the span of the Brahma Kalpa, the subtle body folds itself like a mat on the death of the physical body, ready to unfold itself in a new house (new body). The life of causal body is until the attainment of Jnana.
Sri Bhagavan pointed out the error in the common notion of the pancha kosa as sheaths fitted one within the other and having the Self as the innermost. He said an apt analogy would be the scented kerchief. It has material - cotton or silk - texture, dimension, color, and scent corresponding to the five sheaths. But the five are not distinct from one another; they coexist together in every fiber of the kerchief. Likewise, the five sheaths are together integrated in the Self.
It is worthwhile to record here another incident that happened in the Old Hall. It was an unusually cold winter. Manavasi Ramaswami Iyer, pained to see Sri Bhagavan's body clad only in kaupina and exposed to such weather, wanted Him to cover Himself with something more adequate to protect Him from the biting cold. So he had two shirts stitched and lacking courage to present them personally to Sri Bhagavan, placed them on the stool before the sofa while Sri Bhagavan had gone up the Hill. On His return, noticing the shirts, Sri Bhagavan asked the attendant about them. Manavasi, who was there, murmured inaudibly, saying it was he who put them there for the use of Sri Bhagavan, the season being very cold. Sri Bhagavan interrupted, 'Did I complain about the cold?' Manavasi: 'No, Bhagavan. I only thought Sri Bhagavan should protect Himself adequately.' Sri Bhagavan asked them to be taken away while Manavasi persisted. Sri Bhagavan said: 'I already wear five shirts. Is a sixth one necessary?'
The pancha kosas (non self) do not exist for a Jnani who remains within them as the Atman. Where then is the need to cover them what does not exist?
Verse 5 concluded.
******
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 450:
Miss Umadevi, a Polish lady convert to Hinduism, asked Sri Bhagavan: I once before told Sri Bhagavan, how I had a vision of Siva at about the time of my conversion to Hinduism. a similar experience recurred to me at KuRRalam (water falls). These visions are momentary. But they are blissful. I want to know how they might be made permanent and continuous. Without Siva there is no life in what I see around me. I am so happy to think of Him. Please tell me how His vision may be everlasting to me.
Maharshi: You speak of a vision of Siva. Vision is always of an object. That implies the existence of a subject. The value of the vision is the same as that of the seer. That is to say, the nature of the vision is on the same plane as that of the seer. Appearance implies disappearance also. Whatever appears must also disappear. A vision can never be eternal. But Siva is eternal.
The pratyaksha (vision) of Siva to the eye signifies the existence of the eyes to see; the buddhi (intellect) lying behind the sight;
the seer behind the buddhi and the sight; and finally the Consciousness underlying the seer. This pratyaksha (vision) is not as real as one imagines it to be, because it is not intimate and inherent. It is not first hand. It is the result of several successive phases of Consciousness. Of these, Consciousness alone does not vary. It is eternal. It is Siva. It is the Self.
The vision implies the seer. The seer cannot deny the existence of the Self. There is no moment when the Self as Consciousness does not exist; nor can the seer remain apart from Consciousness. This Consciousness is the eternal Being and the only Being. The seer cannot see himself. Does he deny his existence because he cannot see himself with the eyes as pratyaksha (in vision)? No! So, Pratyaksha does not mean seeing, but BE-ing.
"TO BE" is to realize - Hence I AM THAT I AM. I AM is Siva. Nothing else can be without Him. Everything has its being in Siva and because of Siva.
............
Saint Manikkavachagar sings:
We do bhajans and the rest. But we have no seen nor heard of those who had seen Thee.
One cannot see God and yet retain individuality. The seer and the seen unite into one Being. There is no cognizer, nor cognition, nor the cognized. All merge into One Supreme Siva only!
*******
R.Subramanian,
I do understand that you are only citing the commentary of devotees.To be fair to these commentators,they are also basing it on works like the Panchadasi or Tatva Bodha.Sri Bhagavan himself seems to be clubbing everything into just 'Embodied' state and is keeping it simple in his original verse and it seems to be clear without these 'additions'.
All the same,It seems to me that we should not be accepting anything said without questioning it(not in a demeaning way)and understanding it experientially.
Especially to take the 'Default' sleep state as a state of 'Bliss' is to mislead ourselves-It is like what Sri Bhagavan calls-'Sukam'-means a state of 'Ease'-Relatively free of 'Disturbance',yet it is vastly different than the state of Bliss which cannot be Disturbed.Bliss is untouched by disturbance ,but 'sukam' can be disturbed.
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 469:
Yogi Ramiah asked: A master is approached by an aspirant for enlightenment. The master says that Brahman has no qualities, no stain, nor movement, etc., Does he not then speak as an individual? How can the aspirant's ignorance be wiped off unless the master speaks of thus? Do the words of the master as an individual amount to Truth?
Maharshi: To whom should the master speak? Whom does he instruct? Does he see anyone different from the Self?
Devotee: But the disciple is asking the master for elucidation.
Maharshi: True, but does the master see him as different? The ignorance of the disciple lies in not knowing that all are Self realized. Can anyone exist apart from the Self? The master simply points out that the ignorance lies there and therefore does not stand apart as an individual.
What is Realization? Is it to see God with four hands, bearing conch, wheel, club, etc.? Even if God should appear in that form, how is the disciple's ignorance wiped out? The truth must be eternal realization. The direct perception is ever present Experience. God Himself is known as directly perceived. It does not mean that He appears before the devotee as said above. Unless the Realization be eternal it cannot serve any useful purpose. Can the appearance with four hands be eternal realization? It is phenomenal and illusory. There must be a seer. The seer alone is real and eternal.
Let God appear as the light of a million suns: Is it pratyaksha?
To see it, the eyes, the mind, etc., are necessary. It is indirect knowledge, whereas the seer is direct experience. The seer alone is pratyaksha. All other perceptions are only secondary knowledge. The present super imposition of the body as 'I' is so deep rooted, that the vision before
the eyes is considered pratyaksha but not the seer himself. No one wants realization because there is no one who is not realized. Can anyone say that he is not already realized or that he is apart from the Self? No. Evidently all are realized. What makes him unhappy is the desire to exercise extraordinary powers. He knows that he cannot do so. Therefore he wants god to appear before him, confer all His powers on the devotee, and keep Himself in the background. In short, God should abdicate His powers in favor of the man.
........
*******
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 512:
Sri Bhagavan said: All mistake the mind-consciousness for Self-Consciounsess. There is no mind in deep sleep. But no one denies his being in sleep. Even a child says on waking, "I slept well". And does not deny its existence. The 'I' rises up, the mind turns outward through the five senses and perceive objects, this they call direct perception. Asked if 'I' is not directly perceived, they get confused, because 'I' does not announce itself as an object in front and only perception with the senses can be recognized by them as knowledge. This habit is so strong with them. A stanza in Tevaram says: 'O Sages, eager to get over all misery, worry not about inferences and examples! Our Light is ever shining forth from within! Within mind clear, live in God!'
This is direct perception. Will the common people admit it? They want God to appear in front of them as a bright Being mounted on a bull. Such a vision once originated must also end. It is therefore transient. Tevaram speaks of the Eternal and Ever experienced Being. This Tevaram takes one directly to the Reality.
******
Sri Bhagavan about Visions:
Talks No. 621:
Mr. Raj Krishna found Sri Bhagavan alone on the Hill at about 5.30 pm. and prayed. I have been desiring since my tenth year to have glimpse of the Reality. I firmly believe that I can be helped in this only by a Sage like Sri Bhagavan. So I pray for Thy help.
Sri Bhagavan looked at him for a few minutes.
..........
..........
They were walking slowly, conversing at the same time. The devotee said: "There is a girl of eleven in Lahore. She is very remarkable. She says she can call upon Krishna twice and remain conscious, but if she calls the third time, she becomes unconscious and remains in trance for ten hours continuously."
Maharshi: So long as you think that Krishna is different from you, you call upon Him. Falling into trance denotes the transitoriness of the Samadhi. You are always in Samadhi: that is what should be realized.
Devotee: God vision is glorious.
Maharshi: God vision is only vision of the Self objectified as the God of one's own faith. Know the Self.
******
Swarupa and Arupa:
(An article by Sri Dwarakanath Reddy; Mountain Path, Jan.-Mar. 2009.
Question: What is Swarupa (Form) and Arupa (Formless) of the mind?
Maharshi: When you wake up from sleep a light appears, that is the light of the Self passing through Mahat Tattva. It is called Cosmic Consciousness. This is Arupa. The light falls on the ego and is reflected therefrom. Then the body and the world are seen. This mind is Swarupa. The objects appear in the light of this reflected consciousness. This light is called Jyoti.
- Talks. October, 15, 1938.
Everything that the Sage speaks - the Realized Person, the Enlightened One, the Liberated One are also words to denote and distinguish the transcendental attainment of the Sage - is spoken out of experience, and not out of theory, or logical extension, not from learnt and remembered knowledge. We know the words, of course, but have not attributed to them the deeper, often unsuspected, intimations that they are capable of conveying to us when structured and empowered in the idiom that lifts relativity beyond its boundaries. That 'beyond' is not added space - how can it be? it is the Absolute. 'Absolute' is not applicable to elements or elemental energies, since they are perceivables or cognizables. That is to say, they are the knowables. Knowing is the functioning of consciousness, and so they are the contents and consciousness is the container. It is this that is referred to as Total Consciousness. That is Absolute.
This brief reply from Sri Ramana Maharshi is the answer to 'How does the unmanifest manifest?' The scientist has the same question. 'How did creation start?' or 'What triggered the Big Bang?' On the question the mind of science, bounded by time-space coordinates, searches in a dark room for a black cat that is not there. Absolute Consciousness, (the science of the mindlessness?), being Self Aware in the Sage, effortlessly flows in the idiom of revelation. The answer remains present but hidden in everyone's daily life, like the car key in your pocket that you are frantically searching for in your cluttered room (more true of professors, unkind wits have said), and not finding. The present instant contains the truth of eternity for the sage, but will deny it to him who begs Time for the gift of vision.
Here the Maharshi is focusing our attention on familiar territory, as
intimate as our daily waking up from sleep. To our easy understanding, sleep is the unmanifest state of one's consciousness, and waking up is bringing the world into manifestation through sensed recognition. We have to understand the teaching in personal terms, and also extrapolate it into a pre- personal context. It will be seen then that the post personal is also written to it.
We are told that there is the first instant in the transition from sleep into awakening, when a light manifests. This is the implication in 'God said: Let there be light.' We can feel the acquisition of new knowledge as a new illumination, a glow of intelligence. Our mind can see that, not the eyes. Knowing that, let us correctly understand this reference to "light". This kinetic energy (Sakti) 'passes through Mahat Tattva, which signifies the seed potential of nascent matter and mind (cosmos). It is now called 'cosmic consciousness', because it has been moded into a generative thought in Total Consciounesss. The creative momentum has been generated. But creation is not yet articulated. Therefore it is Arupa, formless. this formlessness precedes 'formed' creation. Therefore 'time' has no relevance here. It is prior to time.
continued.......
Swarupa and Arupa:
continues....
When creation puts forth forms, and interactive play of energy moves those forms, 'events', take place in space, and time enters as a measure of speed and acceleration, and space as a measure of distances. Decide now where and why 'time' is born. St. Augustine put his meditative finger on Truth when he said, 'Time is a property only of the universe that God has created.' He was saying that the First Cause cannot, logically, be located in any time-space frame. Sri Ramana Maharshi is saying the same. Sages have no disputes!
Next, the One Self assumes plurality of nodal points, like one sun reflecting in a thousand pools of water to 'become' a thousand suns. Each of these individualized
focal points of consciousness is the 'ego'. The light of Total Consciousness 'falls on the ego and is reflected therefrom.' It is the reflected light that reveals 'the body and the world'; and that is creation, perception, manifestation, swarupa. This sensing consciousness, with the personalized ego as its center and support, is the 'mind'. Mind and time co-exist, because the content of mind is objects, things and events, and objects can only exist in time and space.
The mind is the receiver (perception) and the repository (memory) of what the senses feed it with. It is the reflected light that reveals creation to the observer. This optical light sustains the mind with objective knowledge. All this constitutes the 'form filled' universe of relativity. It is 'relative' because it is integrally 'related'
to time-space coordinates. The Absolute must have a reality, but that cannot be formulated / equated on terms that define relativity. In that 'otherness' which is beyond the parameters of relativity, is the Luminance that initiates the reflectivity (creativity) that manifests the visual light which in turn reveals the cosmos (forms) by its inherent nature of reflection.
The question that the disciple put to Bhagavan was 'What is swarupa (form) and arupa (formless) of the mind? Be it noted - 'of the mind'?
not 'of Brahman'? Appropriately, Sri Bhagavan's reply starts 'When you wake from sleep.....' not 'When Brahman made a move.. (if He did). We have to see the event of change of mode in ourselves personally. At the same time, the unraveling is both cosmic and personal. It has to be so. 'God' and 'I' are not different entities. Pure Ego is unconditioned I-ness, free from dimensions, divisions, or distinctions. It is not that god is a macro term and Ego is a micro term, because "He alone is all this" affirms the scripture. It is the wrong identification of I-ness with an adjunct (the body) that imposes a limitation and gives rise to the petty personal ego in a temporal spatial frame of reference, and obscures the Timeless Reality from the ego.
continued.....
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"BRAHMO: "Sir, is it good to worship God with form, an image of the Deity made of
clay?"
MASTER: "You do not accept God with form. That is all right. The image is not meant for
you. For you it is good to deepen your feeling toward your own Ideal. From the
worshippers of the Personal God you should learn their yearning-for instance, Sri Krishna's
attraction for Radha. You should learn from the worshippers of the Personal God their love
for their Chosen Ideal. When the believers in the Personal God worship the images of Kali
and Durga, with what feeling they cry from the depths of their souls, 'Mother! O Mother!'
How much they love the Deity! You should accept that feeling. You don't have to accept
the image."
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Ideals of jnani and bhakta
"The jnani experiences God-Consciousness within himself; it is like the upper Ganges,
flowing in only one direction. To him the whole universe is illusory, like a dream; he is
always established in the Reality of Self. But with the lover of God the case is different. His
feeling does not flow in only one direction. He feels both the ebb-tide and the flood-tide of
divine emotion. He laughs and weeps and dances and sings in the ecstasy of God. The lover
of God likes to sport with Him. In the Ocean of God-Consciousness he sometimes swims,
sometimes goes down, and sometimes rises to the surface-like pieces of ice in the water.
(Laughter.)
Brahman and Sakti are not different
"The jnani seeks to realize Brahman. But the ideal of the bhakta is the Personal God-a God
endowed with omnipotence and with the six treasures. Yet Brahman and Sakti are, in fact,
not different. That which is the Blissful Mother is, again, Existence-Knowledge-Bliss
Absolute. They are like the gem and its lustre. When one speaks of the lustre of the gem,
one thinks of the gem; and again, when one speaks of the gem, one refers to its lustre. One
cannot conceive of the lustre of the gem without thinking of the gem, and one cannot
conceive of the gem without thinking of its lustre.
"Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute is one, and one only. But It is associated with
different limiting adjuncts on account of the different degrees of Its manifestation. That is
why one finds various forms of God. The devotee sings, 'O my Divine Mother, Thou art all
these!' Wherever you see actions, like creation, preservation, and dissolution, there is the
manifestation of Sakti. Water is water whether it is calm or full of waves and bubbles. The
Absolute alone is the Primordial Energy, which creates, preserves, and destroys. Thus it is
the same 'Captain', whether he remains inactive or performs his worship or pays a visit to
the Governor General. Only we designate him by different names at different times."
CAPTAIN: "Yes, sir, that is so."
MASTER: "I said those words to Keshab Sen."
continued...
The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...
CAPTAIN: "Keshab is not an orthodox Hindu. He adopts manners and customs according
to his own whim. He is a well-to-do gentleman and not a holy man."
MASTER (to the other devotees): "Captain forbids me to go to see Keshab."
CAPTAIN: "But, sir, you act as you will. What can I do?"
MASTER (sharply): "Why shouldn't I go to see Keshab? You feel at ease when you go to
the Governor General's house, and for money at that. Keshab thinks of God and chants His
name. Isn't it you who are always saying that God Himself has become the universe and all
its living beings? Doesn't God dwell in Keshab also?"
With these words the Master left the room abruptly and went to the northeast verandah.
Captain and the other devotees remained, waiting for his return. M. accompanied the
Master to the verandah, where Narendra was talking with Hazra. Sri Ramakrishna knew
that Hazra always indulged in dry philosophical discussions. Hazra would say: "The world
is unreal, like a dream. Worship, food offerings to the Deity, and so forth, are only
hallucinations of the mind. The aim of spiritual life is to meditate on one's own real Self."
Then he would repeat, "I am He." But, with all that, he had a soft corner in his heart for
money, material things, and people's attention.
Sri Ramakrishna smiled and said to Hazra and Narendra, "Hello! What are you talking
about?"
NARENDRA (smiling): "Oh, we are discussing a great many things. They are rather too
deep for others."
MASTER (with a smile): "But Pure Knowledge and Pure Love are one and the same thing.
Both lead the aspirants to the same goal. The path of love is much the easier."
Narendra quoted a song:
O Mother, make me mad with Thy love!
What need have I of knowledge or reason?
Narendra said to M. that he had been reading a book by Hamilton, who wrote: "A learned
ignorance is the end of philosophy and the beginning of religion."
MASTER (to M.): "What does that mean?"
Narendra explained the sentence in Bengali. The Master beamed with joy and said in
English, "Thank you! Thank you!" Everyone laughed at the charming way he said these
words. They knew that his English vocabulary consisted of only half a dozen words."
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva CanonsL
(Lesser known temples.)
Then Tirumullai vAyil: 609 113.
There is one Tirumullai vAyil near
Avadi in Chennai. It is called Vada
Tirumullai vAyil. Vada = North. This is the place where VaLLimlai Swamigal spent his later years. He had darshan of Seshadri Swamigal and Sri Bhagavan. He spent his time in singing Tirupugazh songs. He installed a idol of deity and called Pongi (vaLLi) in this place and also had an Ashram.
Then Tirumulllai vAyil is near SirkAzhi, on the sea shore. It is about 11 kms from SirkAzhi.
Siva is called Mullai Vana Nathar. Uma is called Kodhai Ammai. The holy waters (tirtham) are a tank called Chakra Tirtham. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses.
Devendra and KArkodaka (the serpent king?) are said to have prayed to Siva here.
********
Sri Bhagavan about Dikshas, inititations:
Talks No. 398:
.......
.......
.......
Devotee: Is not Grace the gift of the Guru?
Maharshi: God, Grace and Guru are all synonymous and also eternal and immanent. Is the not the Self already within? Is it for the Guru to bestow It by his look? If a Guru thinks so, he does not deserve the name.
The books say that there are so many kinds of diksha (initiations - hasta diksha, sparsa diksha, chakshu diksha, mano diksha, etc.,) They also say that the Guru makes some rites with fire, water, japa, mantras, etc., and call such fantastic performances - dikshas - as if the disciple (sishya) becomes ripe only after such processes are gone through by the Guru.
If the individual is sought he is nowhere to be found. Such is the Guru. Such is Dakshinamurti. What did He do? He was silent; the disciples appeared before Him. He maintained silence, the doubts of the disciples were dispelled, which means that they lost their individual identities. That is Jnana and not all the verbiage usually associated with it.
Silence is the most potent form of
work. However vast and emphatic the sastras may be, they fail in their effect. The Guru is quiet and peace prevails in all. His silence is more vast and more emphatic than all the sastras put together. These questions arise because of the feeling, that having been here so long, heard so much, exerted so hard, one has not gained anything. The work proceeding within is not apparent. In fact, the Guru is always within you.
Tayumanavar says: Oh Lord! Coming with me all along the births, never abandoning me and finally rescuing me! Such is the experience of Realization. Srimad Bhagavad Gita says the same in a different way. 'We are not only now but have ever been so.'
.........
.........
The Gita says: param bhavam ajanantah (Ch.IX ) - that those who cannot understand the transcendental nature (of Sri Krishna) are fools, deluded by ignorance. The Master appears to dispel that ignorance. As Tayumanavar put it, he appears as a
man to dispel the ignorance of a man, just as deer is used as a decoy to capture the wild deer. He has to appear with a body in order to eradicate our ignorant, "I am the body" idea.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about dikshas (initiations):
Talks No. 433:
.......
.......
Devotee: Does Bhagavan give diksha?
Maharshi: Mouna is the best and the most potent diksha. That was practiced by Sri Dakshinamurti. Touch, look, etc., are all of a lower order. Silence (mouna diksha) changes the hearts of all. There is not Guru and no disciple. The ajnani confounds his body with the Self and so he takes the other's body for the Guru. But does the Guru think his body to be the Self?
He has transcended the body. There are no differences for him. So the ajnani cannot appreciate the standpoint of Guru and of sishya.
*******
Sri Bhagavan about dikshas (initiations):
Talks No. 473:
Someone remarked: It is said that they get mukti unasked who live or dies within a radius of 30 miles round Arunachala. It is also admitted that only by Jnana is liberation obtained. The purana also remarks that Vedanta Vijnana is difficult to get. So mukti is difficult. But life or death round about the Hill bestows mukti so easily. How can it be?
Maharshi: Siva says, 'By my command.' Those who live here need no initiation, dikshas etc., but get mukti. Such is the command of Siva.
Devotee: The purana also says that those who are born here are Siva's group of followers, such as ghosts, spirits, disembodied beings, etc;.,
Maharshi: So it is said of other kshetras as well, e.g. Tiruvarur, Chidambaram.
Devotee: How does mere life or death here confer mukti? It is difficult to understand.
Maharshi: Darsanad Abhrasadasi jananat Kamalalaye, Kasyantu maranam muktih smaranad Arunachale.
To see Chidambaramm, to be born in Tiruvarur, to die in Kasi or merely to think of Arunachala, is to be assured of Liberation.
Jananat Kamalalaye means "being born in Kamalalays. What is it? It is the Heart.
Similarly, Abhrasadasi -Seat of Consciousness. Again, Kasi is the Light of Realization. Remembering Arunachala completes the verse. It must be also be understood in the same sense.
Devotee: So bhakti is necessary.
Maharshi: Everything depends on the outlook. One sees that all born in Tiruvarur, or visiting Chidambaram, or dying in Kasi, or contemplating Arunachala, are muktas.
..........
..........
******
Sri Bhagavan about dikshas (initiations):
Talks No. 509.
Mr. McIver had an interview with Sri Bhagavan and spoke about diksha.
Sri Bhagavan asked: What is this diksha? After a pause, He continued: "Diksha is of various kinds, by word, by sight, by touch and so forth."
Devotee: Bhagavan's is mouna diksha, is it not?
Maharshi: Yes, this is the highest form of diksha.
Devotee: Is it applicable to the Vichara marga only?
Maharshi: all the margas are included in Vichara marga.
Devotee: Yes, but if one wished to take them separately, it would not be applicable. Would it?
Maharshi: No.
Devotee: Supposing one feels the need for aids to Realization these are to be regarded as belonging to accessory margas. Are they not?
Maharshi: Yes.
Devotee: And for these then other dikshas would be necessary.
Maharshi: Yes.
Devotee: And for these then other dikshas would be necessary.
Maharshi: Yes.
Devotee: From this another question arises: So long as I am at Sri Bhagavan's feet. I cannot be regarded as a faithful Christian.
Sri Bhagavan interrupted saying that this was the essence of Christianity.
.........
*********
Sri Bhagavan about Dikshas, (initiations):
Talks No. 518:
Mr.V. Gupta, a Telugu Pandit:
.......
The Pandit asked about the operation of Grace. It is the mind of the Guru acting on the mind of the disciple or anything different?
Maharshi: The Highest Form of Grace is Silence (mouna). It is also the highest upadesa.
Devotee: Vivekananda has also said the silence is the loudest form of prayer.
Maharshi: It is so, for the seeker's silence Guru's is the loudest, upadesa. It is also the Grace in its highest form. All other dikshas e.g. sparsa, chakshus, are delivered from mouna (silence). They are therefore secondary. Mouna is the primary form. If the Guru is silent, the seeker's mind gets purified by itself.
Devotee: Is it proper that one prays to God or Guru when one is afflicted by worldly ills?
Maharshi: Undoubtedly.
Talks No. 519:
Maharshi: The Mahavakyas and their interpretation lead to interminable discussions and keep the minds of the seekers engaged externally. To turn the mind inward the mind must directly settle down in the 'I'. Then there is an end of external activities and perfect Peace prevails.
Later, a passage from the Yoga Vasishta was read out before Sri Bhagavan, indicating by look and initiation by touch.
Sri Bhagavan observed: Sri Dakshinamurti observed silence when the disciples approached Him. That is the highest form of initiation. It includes the other forms. There must be subject-object relationship
established in the other dikshas. First the subject must emanate and then the object. Unless these two are there how is the one to look at the other or touch him? Mouna diksha is the most perfect. It comprises looking, touching and teaching. It will purify the individual in every way and establish him in the Reality.
*******
Swarupa and Arupa:
(Mountain Path, Jan. - Mar. 2009)
continues.....
Therefore when the highest Truth (not a relative truth, which is no truth) is expounded, the same statement holds good for the Creator and the created, which, after all, are not two facts but one. The personal mind realizes its Swarupa when the subject in it de-links from objectivity of the world, and becomes self focused. The mind that has rid itself of movement, which means of thought-waves, says as aham vritti, where 'I' is both the subject and the object. Then, it is no longer a wave for it has nowhere to travel. If it is a vibration it is vertical but not horizontal. In essence it is aham sphurana. The individualized ego that laid claim to the mind that started inquiry is no longer recognizable in this state. He (or it) never had a Swarupa apart form what was God's and that truth is now validated by invalidating the false ego.
What is now flashing as 'I-I-I', an unbroken Existence Self revealed, is Iswara, the manifest Brahman as the Creator, and that is His Swarupa. Sri Bhagavan comes back to us, to you and me, and reminds us 'to give up many thoughts and to keep the one thought.' He assures us 'your real nature (Swarupa) is always there. You meditation, etc., come only temporarily. Reality being your Self, there is nothing for you to realize.'
continued......
R.Subramanian,
"The personal mind realizes its Swarupa when the subject in it de-links from objectivity of the world, and becomes self focused."
Do we talk of 'Personal air' that one breathes?Likewise there is no such thing called 'personal mind'-We identify with thoughts borrowed and we call it 'personal'.Even the Vedic Rishis did not claim the Mantric vibrations as their 'own'.They just discovered them.
I do not find much that is intuitive in this article.
Namaskar.
Pancha kosas and three bodies:
Dear Ravi,
I went through Panchadasi. There the five sheaths are desribed in detail,
but I could not locate the portion where it is related to the three bodies.
Then I went through Taittiriya Upanisahd and also Dr.T.M.P. Mahadevan's explanation. He says:
The Vedanta describes the division of body into five sheaths. The locus classicus of this doctrine is in the Taittiriya Upanishad. .... The sheaths are so called because they veil the Self, hiding it from our view. The five sheaths are....It constituents are the quintuplicated elements, panchikrta.....Anadamaya is the sheath of bliss. It is not the original bliss which is Brahman. It is pseudo bliss, and is the root cause of transmigration. Anandamaya is another name for ignorance, or
nescience.
The five sheaths may also be rearranged into three bodies. Annamaya is the gross body, sthula sarira. The next three, pranamaya, manomaya and Vijnanamaya, constitute the subtle body, sukshma sarira. And Anandamaya is the causal body., karana sarira.
It is as endowed with these five sheaths or three bodies, that we experience the external world in the state of waking. In dream-experience, the gross body does not function. But the other two bodies are active. While the wakeful enjoyments are gross, those pertaining to dreams are subtle. In deep sleep we experience neither the gross objects of the world without nor the subtler objects of the world within. But the causal body, viz., nescience, persists. And if it is on account of this that we dream and become awake again.
*******
Dear Ravi,
I think by personal mind, the author says the mind of a particular person. As you know, while the Self is One without second, the mind/ego are different for each person. Each man's mind/ego carries different vasanas.
******
R.Subramanian,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of sri Ramakrishna where the Master talks about the mapping of the Pancha Koshas with the physical,Subtle and causal bodies,as stated in the Vedanta philosophy.
"Sunday, December 9, 1883
Chaitanya's exalted state
SRI RAMAKRISHNA was seated on the small couch in his room with Adhar,
Manomohan, Rakhal, M., Harish, and other devotees. It was about two o' clock in the
afternoon. The Master was describing to them the exalted state of Sri Chaitanya.
MASTER: "Chaitanya experienced three states of mind. First, the conscious state, when his
mind dwelt on the gross and the subtle. Second, the semi-conscious state, when his mind
entered the causal body and was absorbed in the bliss of divine intoxication. Third, the
inmost state, when his mind was merged in the Great Cause.
This agrees very well with the five koshas, or 'sheaths', described in the Vedanta. The gross
body corresponds to the annamayakosha and the pranamayakosha, the subtle body to the
manomayakosha and the vijnanamayakosha, and the causal body to the anandamayakosha.
The Mahakarana, the Great Cause, is beyond the five sheaths. When Chaitanya's mind
merged in That, he would go into samadhi. This is called the nirvikalpa or jada samadhi.
"While conscious of the outer world, Chaitanya sang the name of God; while in the state of
partial consciousness, he danced with the devotees; and while in the inmost state of
consciousness, he remained absorbed in samadhi."
M. (to himself): "Is the Master hinting at the different states of his own mind? There is
much similarity between Chaitanya and the Master."
MASTER: "Chaitanya was Divine Love incarnate. He came down to earth to teach people
how to love God. One achieves everything when one loves God. There is no need of
hathayoga."
It is thus clear that Anandamaya Kosha referred here has nothing to do with what we experience during 'sleep' state.
I will share more on this later.
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian/Friends,
Tatva-Bodha of Sri Sankara is one of the primers on Advaita-VedAnta and we may find the pancha Koshas and the triple bodies-Gross,subtle and Causal-and the three States of Waking,Dream and Sleep explained.
You may download Swami TejOmayAnanda's translation here,with his commentary.By and large,it is lucidly presented in an easy to understand style.
SwAmi TejOmayAnanda's 'Tatva Bodha' can be downloaded from this link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ctjkb294c68a1hi
Surely,the structured way of studying and practising advaita vedanta sAdhana has its pluses,as it avoids all the short cuts that a seeker would otherwise be taking,ignoring the Fundamentals in terms of the Sadhana chatushtayam.
So,the question remains -the experience of Sleep,is it Bliss?
Perhaps the simple answer is that to the extent one's nature is Satvic,one experiences Happiness be it in the Waking,Dream or sleep State.For who is to decide -how deep is the Deep sleep state that one experiences!It can be known only when one awakens and finds the Depth or lack of it.
It will be useful to remember that Sadhana has to be deepened in the Waking State only,and this gets carried over to the Dream and Sleep State.
The Taittriya upanishad clearly mentions the relative units of Ananda that different beings experience-starting from the Healthiest man in his prime of Health and moving up the ladder through,devas,etc.
More Later.
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru valampuram - 609 107
This semi urban village is nowadays called Melaperum paLLam. It is about 2 kms from TiruveNkadu. Vishnu is said to have prayed to Siva and attained the conch, twisted to the right. valampuri - that which is twisted towards right.
Siva is called Valampura Nathar. Uma is called Vaduvahir kaNNammai, the One with eyes like split baby mangoes! What a simile! Saint Manikkavachagar sings in Adaikala Pathu, Decad on surrender: O the consort of the lady with eyes like split baby mangoes!
The tirtham is called Brahma Tirtham. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses, Tiru Navukkarasar in 20 of his verses and Sundarmurti Swami in 11 of his verses.
When Tiru Jnana Sambandha was visiting this temple, he enjoyed the beauty of this temple and he called Tiru Navukkarasar to come and join him to see this temple.
******
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 13:
.......
Devotee: Should I remain as if in sleep and be watchful at the same time?
Maharshi: Yes. Watchfulness is the waking state. Therefore the state will not be one of sleep, but sleepless sleep, Jagrat sushupti. If you go the way of your thoughts you will be carried away by them and you will find yourself in an endless maze.
Devotee: So, then, I must go back tracing the source of thoughts.
Maharshi: Quite so. In that way the thoughts will disappear and the Self alone will remain. In fact there is no inside or outside for the Self. They are also projections of the ego. The Self is pure and absolute.
Devotee: It is understood intellectually only. Is not intellect a help for realization?
Maharshi: Yes, up to a certain stage. Even so, realize that the Self transcends the intellect -- the latter must itself vanish to reach the Self.
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*******
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 136:
Dr. G.H. Mees, a young Dutchman, was here for a few days. He asked Sri Bhagavan: 'I have an impression that in deep sleep I have something akin to Samadhi. Is it so?
Maharshi: It is the waking 'I' that asks the question. --- not the 'I' in sleep. If you attain the state of wakeful sleep, (jagrat sushupti), which is the same as Samadhi, while still awake, doubts will not arise.
Samadhi is one's natural state. It is the under current in all the three states. This - that is, 'I' -- is not in those states, but these states are in It. If we get Samadhi in our waking state, that will persist in deep sleep also. The distinction between consciousness and unconsciousness belongs to the realm of mind, which is transcended by the state of the Real Self.
.........
*******
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 138:
The Financial Secretary of Mysore State asked: 'Is Paul Brunton's Secret Path, useful for Indians as well?
Maharshi: Yes. -- for all.
Devotee: The body, the senses, etc., are not 'I'. This is common amongst us. But how to practice it?
Maharshi: By the threefold method mentioned therein.
Devotee: Is breath control necessary for inquiry?
Maharshi: Not quite.
Devotee: There is a blankness intervening -- it is said in that book.
Maharshi: Yes. Do not stop there. See for whom the blankness appears.
Devotee: For devotees, there is no blankness, it is said.
Maharshi: Even there, there is the latent state, laya; the mind wakes up after sometime.
Devotee: What is the experience of Samadhi?
Maharshi: It is as it is. For onlooker it may seem to be a swoon. Even to the practiser it may appear so in the early experiences. After
a few repeated experiences it will be all right.
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*****
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 290:
..........
Devotee: Unity can only be after merging into Bhagavan. True - but till then there must be diversity. that is samsara.
Maharshi: Where are we now? Are we apart from Bhagavan? The samsara and we are all in Bhagavan.
Devotee: But that is the experience of the Jnanis. Differentiation persists until Jnana dawns. So there is samsaara for me.
Maharshi: Samskara (predispositions) is samsara, (cycle of births and deaths).
Devotee: Right. 'All this is Vasudeva' - this truth has been forgotten by us. So we cannot identify ourselves with God.
Maharshi: Where is forgetfulness?
Devotee: Like Swapna.
Maharshi: Whose swapna?
Devotee: Jiva's.
Maharshi: Who is Jiva?
Devotee: It is Paramatma's.
Maharshi: Let Paramatma ask then!
Devotee: I shall make my doubt clear by means of an illustration.
Maharshi: Whoever wants the doubt to be illustrated and made clear?
Direct experience -- pratyaksha -- does not require examples for elucidation.
Devotee: There is pratyaksha and also forgetfulness.
Maharshi: What is forgotten and by whom?
Devotee: Listen. One dreams; the dream world disappears on waking.
Maharshi: Wake up similarly from the present dream.
Devotee: Prakrti (nature) is too powerful.
Maharshi: See the Purusha (lord) also. What can prakrti do then?
Devotee: There is a granthi (knot) between them.
Maharshi: Whose is that knot? Is it of the Lord or of Nature? or of both?
Devotee: Due to Brahman.
Maharshi: Then Brahman must ask or must be asked. To whom is Swapna?
Or the knot? You are always saying 'I ask'. Who is that 'I'?
Devotee: I do not perceive.
Maharshi: 'I' is eternal. It would vanish if it were anything in particular. It is Perfection. So it is not found as an object.
Devotee: But I am imperfect.
Maharshi: Why bring in imperfection? Why are you not perfect? Did you feel imperfection in your sleep? Why do you not remain so even now? Bring sleep into the waking state, Jagrat Sushupti. And you will be all right. Ya nisa sarva bhootanam .. pasyato muneh ...(That which is night for the ignorant is day for the wise.
........
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*******
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 311:
Sri Bhagavan was speaking to a Swiss lady...
Maharshi: Because your outlook is externally directed you speak of a without. In that state you are advised to look within. This 'within' is relative to the 'without' you are seeking. In fact, the Self is neither without nor within.
Speaking of Heaven one thinks of it as above or below, within or without, since one is accustomed to relative knowledge. One seeks only objective knowledge and hence these ideas. Really speaking there is neither up or down, neither in or out. If they were real they must be present in dreamless sleep also. For what is real must be continuous and permanent. Did you feel 'in' or 'out' in deep sleep. Of course not.
Devotee: I do not remember.
Maharshi: If there was anything there that could be remembered. But you admit your existence then. The same Self is now speaking. The Self who was undifferentiated in sleep is differentiated in the present state, and sees the diversity. The Real Existence is the only One devoid of objective knowledge. That is absolute consciousness. That is the state of happiness, as admitted by all of us. That state must be brought about even in this waking state. It is called Jagrat Sushupti. That is Mukti.
..........
..........
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 313:
Mr. Greenlees was speaking to Sri Bhagavan.
Maharshi: The Self is all. Now I ask you. Are you apart from the Self? Can the work go on apart from the Self? Or is the body apart from the Self? None of them could be apart from the Self. The Self is universal. So all the actions will go on whether you engage in them voluntarily or not. The work will go on automatically. Attending to the Self includes attending to the work.
Devotee: The work may suffer if I do not attend to it.
Maharshi: Because you identify yourself with the body, you consider that the work is done by you. But the body and its activities, including the work, are not apart from the Self.
What does it matter whether you attend to the work or not? Suppose you walk from one place to another place. You do not attend every single step that you take. After a time, however, you find yourself at your destination. You notice how the work i.e. walking, goes on without your attention to it. Similarly it is with other kinds of work.
Devotee: Then it is like sleep walking.
Maharshi: Quite so. When a child is fast asleep, his mother feeds him in sleep. The child eats the food quite well as well as when well awake. But the next morning he says to the mother "Mother! I did not take food last night." The mother and others know that he did. But he says that he did not. He was not aware and yet the action had gone on. Somnambulism is indeed good analogy for this kind of work.
Take another example. A passenger in a cart has fallen asleep. The bulls move or stand still or are unyoked on the journey. He does not know these occurrences, but finds himself in a different place after he wakes up. He has been blissfully ignorant of the occurrences on the way, but his journey has been finished.
Similarly with the Self of the person. He is asleep in the body. His waking state is the movement of the bulls, his Samadhi is thedir standing still (because Samadhi = Jagrat Sushupti) i.e. to say, he is aware of but not attached to actions. So the bulls are in harness but do not move. His sleep is is the unyoking of the bulls, for there is complete suspension of activities corresponding to the release of the bulls from the yoke.
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******
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru nelvAyil arathuRai - 606 111.
This old name is no longer in use. Today, this temple/village is called Tiru arathuRai or Tiuvatta thuRai.
The temple can be reached from Tiruchirapalli by going first up to
Thozhudhur and then taking another bus that goes to Vriddachalam. One has to get down at KodikaLam stop and from there one should go 3 kms on a road either by bus or by carts.
Siva is called ArathuRai Nathar. Uma is called Ananda Nayaki. The holy tirtham (waters) is a rivulet called VeLLARu. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses, Tiru Navukkarasar in 10 of his verses and Sundaramurti Swami in 10 of his verses.
This temple is mentioned in Periya Puranam, as the place where Siva conferred the child saint Jnana
Sambandha with pearl-studded palanquin and pearl-studded umbrellas and flag posts.
******
Ullada Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 6:
ulaku eimpulangaL uru veRu anRu -
avvaim
pulan eim poRikkup pulanAm - ulakai
manam
onRu eim poRivAyAl ornthiduthalAl
manathai
anRi ulaku uNdo aRai.
The world that is perceptible to the eyes is not other than the form of five sensations, namely, taste, form, touch, sound and smell, which
are known through the five sense organs, namely, tongue, eye, skin, ear and nose. Since it is mind alone that is aware of such a world through the five senses, tell me, is there a world other than mind?
What was taught in the previous verse is continued here. The world is an object of experience to the experiencing mind. The mind experiences the world by flowing along the sense-channels which are five in number. These are called the five cognitive sense organs, Jnanedriyas. They are located in the various parts of the physical body. The world of our experience consists of objects of these sense organs. The structure of the world, then, is co-relative to the constitution of the senses. If the world of things has sounds, colors, etc., it is because we have ears, eyes, etc., What the world is apart from is apart from sounds, colors, etc., and whether there is such a world, we cannot say, and have no way of knowing.
We have to go even deeper than the sense organs. The organs do not understand; they merely convey their respective objects to the mind. Without the mind, no objective knowledge is possible. One of the Upanishadic texts explains how the mind is central in all knowing. 'I was absent minded, I did not see it.', 'I was absent minded, I did not hear it', thus says a person who was inattentive to things given to his senses. So, it is not simply through the sense organs that one experiences. It is through the mind that one sees and hears. The mind takes myriad forms, and fulfills a variety of functions. As the Upanishad puts it, 'Desire, deliberation, doubt, faith, lack of faith, patience, impatience, shame, intelligence and fear -- all these are but the mind. (Br. Up. I.v.3).
Without the mind, then, there is no objective experience. Is there a world, asks Sri Bhagavan, other than the mind?
continued.....
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 6:
continues.....
Here again, we must note that it is
not a brand of subjectivism that is taught by the Maharshi. What is important to be borne in mind is the method of inquiry, which proceeds from the outer to inner, from the gross to the subtle. From the standpoint of the ultimate reality, there is neither outer or inner, nothing gross and nothing subtle. But we have to advance from where we are. We habitually reside in the outer objects, in our bodies, senses and minds. In order to get to the Self, we have to withdraw from these in succession. This mode of approach is made clear, and its objective set forth in several Upanishads. The Katha Upanishad, for instance, says: 'Superior to the senses are the subtle essences. Superior to the subtle essences is the mind. Superior to the mind is the intellect. Superior to the intellect is Hiranyagarbha. Superior to Hiranyagarbha is the unmanifest (avyakta). Superior to the unmanfiest is the Self (Purusha). Superior to the Self there is nothing whatever. That is the goal. That is the final destination.' (Katha, III. 10,11).
We have an echo of this teaching in Srimad Bhagavad Gita: 'The senses are high, they say; higher than the senses is the mind; higher still than the mind is the intellect. And what is higher than the intellect is He. (Gita iii. 42).
Cosmologically, the Advaitin would make a distinction between cosmic creation and individual creation. As the author of the Panchadasi puts it, 'The universe has its origination in Iswara's contemplation and finds it contemplation in the production of jiva-hood. Of the so called external world of the living and the non living, God is the creator. Of the internal world of transmigratory existence which begins in the state of waking and ends in release, the jiva is the author. The individual soul, thus, is the progenitor of its own micro cosmic world.'
iksanAdi pravEshantA srstir isEna
kalpitA,
jAgradAdi vimokshantah samsAro
jiva kalpitAh.
(Panchadasi vii. 4).
continued......
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 6:
continues....
Where it is said that the Mind is the cause of the world, what is meant is the Cosmic Mind, and not the individual mind. It is in this sense that Gaudapada traces everything to Chitta.
chitta-spanditam evEdam grAhya
grAhakavad dvayam,
chittam nirvishayam nityam asangam
tEna kirtitam.
'This world of duality, characterized by apprehended objects and apprehending minds, is set in motion by Chitta alone. The Chitta is without any object (as oppoosed to or different from it). Hence is declared to be eternal and unattached. (MAndukya KArikA, IV, 72).
With the dawn of the light of Awareness, differences of all kinds, accepted as real all along, will disappear along with the unreality of the world. So also with concepts like 'outside' and 'inside', with which the body as a limit, we fence off the world. That these differences are real in the absence of the light of Awareness is not true is the essence of the teaching imparted by Sage Ribhu to Nidhaga in Sivarahasyam. Sri Bhagavan affirms, 'Everything is within one's Self. To see the world there must be a spectator. There could be no world without the Self. The Self is all comprising. In fact, Self if all. There is nothing besides the Self.' (Talks No. 143).
One day, Narayana Iyer, puzzled about the ancient teaching that everything that appears in the world is Maya, or illusion, asked Sri Bhagavan how could that be taken when he clearly saw Sri Bhagavan, the couch He was sitting on and the barrier separating Him from Sri Bhagavan. 'Can all these people sitting here be unreal or non existent,' he asked. Sri Bhagavan laughed and countered him with a question whether he had had any dream the previous night. Iyer confirmed it saying he saw several people lying around in sleep. Sri Bhagavan explained: 'Suppose I asked you to go now and wake up all those people seen in the dream and tell them they are not real, how absurd that would be! That is how it is to me. There is nothing but the dreamer. So the question of dream people being real or unreal does not arise. Much less of waking them up and telling them that they are not real. We are all unreal. Why do you doubt it? THAT ALONE IS REAL.
Verse 6 concluded.
(Source: as mentioned in previous verses.)
******
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 372:
Devotee: Horripilation, sobbing voice, joyful tears, etc., are mentioned in Atma Vidya Vilasa and other works. Are these found in Samadhi or before, or after?
Maharshi: All these are the symptoms of exceedingly subtle modes of mind (vrittis). Without duality they cannot remain. Samadhi is Perfect Peace where these cannot find place. After emerging from Samadhi the remembrance of the state gives rise to these symptoms. In bhakti marga, these are the precursors to Samadhi.
Devotee: Are they not so in the path of Jnana?
Maharshi: May be. There is no definiteness about it. It depends on the nature of the individual. Individuality entirely lost, these cannot find a place. Even the slightest trace of it being present, these symptoms become manifest.
Manikkavachagar and other saints have spoken of these symptoms. They say tears rush forth involuntarily and irrepressibly. Though aware of tears, they are unable to repress them. I had the same experience when I was staying in Virupaksha Cave.
Devotee: Deep sleep state is said to be the experience of Bliss, yet, on recollecting it the hairs do not stand on end. Why should they do so, if the Samadhi state is recollected?
Maharshi: Samadhi means sleep in waking state (Jagrat Sushupti). Bliss is overpowering and the experience is very clear, whereas it is different in sleep.
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********
R.Subramanian/friends,
Thanks very much for picking up those excerpts from the Talks that deal with sushupti and Jagrat sushupti.
Here is a wonderful Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Master's different spiritual moods
Presently some devotees from Konnagar arrived, singing kirtan to the accompaniment of
drums and cymbals. As they reached the northeast verandah of Sri Ramakrishna's room, the
Master joined in the music, dancing with them intoxicated with divine joy. Now and then
he went into samadhi, standing still as a statue. While he was in one of these states of
divine unconsciousness, the devotees put thick garlands of jasmine around his neck. The
enchanting form of the Master reminded the devotees of Chaitanya, another Incarnation of
God. The Master passed alternately through three moods of divine consciousness: the
inmost, when he completely lost all knowledge of the outer world; the semi-conscious,
when he danced with the devotees in an ecstasy of love; and the conscious, when he joined
them in loud singing. It was indeed a sight for the gods, to see the Master standing
motionless in samadhi, with fragrant garlands hanging from his neck, his countenance
beaming with love, and the devotees singing and dancing around him.
When it was time for his noon meal, Sri Ramakrishna put on a new yellow cloth and sat on
the small couch. His golden complexion, blending with his yellow cloth, enchanted the
eyes of the devotees.
After his meal Sri Ramakrishna rested a little on the small couch. Inside and outside his
room crowded the devotees, among them Kedar, Suresh, Ram, Manomohan, Girindra,
Rakhal, Bhavanath, and M. Rakhal's father was also present.
Efficacy of earnest japa
A Vaishnava goswami was seated in the room. The Master said to him: "Well, what do you
say? What is the way?"
GOSWAMI: "Sir, the chanting of God's name is enough. The scriptures emphasize the
sanctity of God's name for the Kaliyuga."
MASTER: "Yes, there is no doubt about the sanctity of God's name. But can a mere name
achieve anything, without the yearning love of the devotee behind it? One should feel great
restlessness of soul for the vision of God. Suppose a man repeats the name of God
mechanically, while his mind is absorbed in 'woman and gold'. Can he achieve anything?
Mere muttering of magic words doesn't cure one of the pain of a spider or scorpion sting.
One must also apply the smoke of burning cow-dung."
GOSWAMI: "But what about Ajamila then? He was a great sinner; there was no sin he had
not indulged in. But he uttered the name of Narayana on his death-bed, calling his son, who
also had that name. And thus he was liberated."
MASTER: "Perhaps Ajamila had done many spiritual things in his past births. It is also said
that he once practised austerity; besides, those were the last moments of his life. What is the
use of giving an elephant a bath? It will cover itself with dirt and dust again and become its
former self. But if someone removes the dust from its body and gives it a bath just before it
enters the stable, then the elephant remains clean. .
"Suppose a man becomes pure by chanting the holy name of God, but immediately
afterwards commits many sins. He has no strength of mind. He doesn't take a vow not to
repeat his sins. A bath in the Ganges undoubtedly absolves one of all sins; but what does
that avail? They say that the sins perch on the trees along the bank of the Ganges. No
sooner does the man come back from the holy waters than the old sins jump on his
shoulders from the trees. (All laugh.) The same old sins take possession of him again. He is
hardly out of the water before they fall upon him.
"Therefore I say, chant the name of God, and with it pray to Him that you may have love
for Him. Pray to God that your attachment to such transitory things as wealth, name, and
creature comforts may become less and less every day."
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru karup paRiyalur - 609 203.
This temple is today known as
Thalai JnAyiRu or Melaik kAzhi. This is about 6 kms from Vaitheeswran Kovil. This is towards the west of Sirkazhi. Hence it is also called Melaik kAzhi.
Siva is called KuRRam poRutha Nathar, one who condoned the mistake of devotees. Once Indra went to Kailash and Siva appeared on the way as a bhutha (retinue of Siva). Indra without knowing Him, sent his weapon kulisam and Siva got angry. On knowing the true form of Siva, Indra sought His pardon and Siva pardoned him.
Uma is called KolvaLai Ammai, one who wears as bangels, the rings made of bamboo. The holy tirtham (waters) are Indra and Surya tirthams. Tiru Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses and Sundaramurti Swami in 11 of his verses.
The name Thalai JnayiRu came because, the Sun (JnayiRu in Tamizh) prayed to Siva here.
*****
Dear Ravi,
Nice anecdote about Sri Ramakrishna in His three states of consciousness.
As He said one cannot do japa or repeat mantras with 'impure' mind and such japa or mantras will disappear like water on the hot desert ground, says Ramalinga Swamigal. Japa and mantras are for chitta suddhhi and primarily some chitta suddhi should also be there to chant mantras with good benefits. With outrageous rajas and tamas in mind, one can never get benefits from mantras.
Subramanian. R
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 430:
A Marathi gentleman asked: I have read much about Self Realization. I do japa, puja, etc., Nothing seems to satisfy me. Can Sri Bhagavan kindly guide me?
Maharshi: What is that you seek to gain? Everyone seeks happiness. Happiness is one's lot in everyday sleep. Bring about that state of happiness even in the waking state. (Jagrat Sushupti). That is all.
Devotee: I do not follow. How is it to be done?
Maharshi: Atma Vichara is the way.
Devotee: It seems too difficult to adopt, being so intangible. What shall I do if I feel unfit for this method of inquiry?
Maharshi: Guidance is there. It is for individuals to avail themselves of it.
****
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No.
.........
Sri Bhagavan then pointed out that to see wrong in another is one's own wrong. The discrimination between right and wrong is he origin of the sin. One's own sin is reflected outside and the individual in ignorance superimposes it on another. The best course for one is to reach the state, in which such discrimination does not arise. Do you see wrong or right in your sleep? Did you not exist in sleep? Be asleep even in the wakeful state, (Jagrat Sushupti). Abide as the Self and remain uncontaminated by what goes on around.
Moreover, however much you might advice them, your hearers may not rectify themselves. Be in the right yourself and remain silent. Your silence will have more effect than
your words or deeds. That is the development of will power. Then the world becomes the Kingdom of Heaven, which is within you.
......
******
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 601:
.........
.........
.........
Someone: The limitation (upadhi) of being a man cannot be got rid of.
Maharshi: How were you in deep sleep? There was no thought of being a man.
Another: so, the state of deep sleep must be brought about even when one is awake.
Maharshi: Yes. It is Jagrat Sushupti.
Sri Bhagavan continued...
Some people even say that while they sleep they are enclosed somewhere in the body. They forget that such an idea did not persist in sleep but rises up only on waking. They bring their waking state to bear upon their sleep.
******
Dear Ravi,
This morning I was listening to discourse of Nochur Venkataraman (CD) given in 2005. He was explaining what is 'amala madhi' in Verse 3 of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam. He says that the mind will normally have two states, vikshepam, thoughts sprouting out, one after another in endless way. Then when they sit for japam, soon their minds become sleepy, because they have to keep on telling one mantra again and again and this is layam. The third, which is not usual, is the state of "kashayam" -
where there are no thoughts nor layam either, but a sense of void, a state of stupor, during which time, they dislike everything around. This state is more dangerous and sometimes only in this state people commit suicide. One has to keep away from this state, by reading some spiritual books or some prayers. A mind which is not in any of these three states, which is in samastithi, is called amalamadhi. This is pure sattvic mind. Only this mind can investigate, 'Who am I?' Wherefrom this 'I' arise, thus gets withdrwan and finds the Aham - 'I-I' and voluntarily merges with it as river merges in the ocean.
This 'amala madhi' is the fit state for self inquiry. Neither inquiry nor peaceful prayers and chanting
of mantras can be done with a contaminated mind, 'with kamini, kanchanam' inside.
Normally we see the commentaries saying, amala madhi is pure mind.
Nochur's further explanation was really convincing.
Subramanian. R
Sri Bhagavan about Jagrat Sushupti:
Talks No. 609:
..........
..........
Sri Bhagavan:
Even a single effort to still at least a single thought even for a trice goes a long way to reach the state of quiescence. Effort is required and it is possible in the waking state only. there is the effort here; there is awareness also; the thoughts are stilled; so there is the peace of sleep gained. That is the state of the Jnani. It is neither sleep nor waking but intermediate between the two. There is awareness of the waking state and stillness of sleep. It is called Jagrat Sushupti. Call it wakeful sleep or sleeping wakefulness or sleepless waking or wakeless sleep. It is not the the same as sleep or waking separately. It is ati-jagrat (beyond wakefulness) or ati-sushupti (beyond sleep). It is the state of perfect awareness and of perfect stillness combined. It lies between sleep and waking. It is also the interval between two successive thoughts. It is the source from which thoughts spring. We see that when we wake up from sleep. In other words thoughts have their origin in the stillness of sleep. The thoughts make all the difference between the stillness of sleep and the turmoil of waking. Go to the root of the thoughts and you reach the stillness of sleep. But you reach it in the full vigor of search, that is, with perfect awareness.
That is again Jagrat Sushupti, spoken of before. It is not dullness but it is bliss. It is not transitory but it is eternal. From that, the thoughts proceed. What are all our experiences but thoughts? Pleasure and pain are mere thoughts. They are within ourselves. If you are free from thoughts, and yet aware, you are That Perfect Being.
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*********
R.Subramanian,
Yes,I have listened to the talk of Nochur on Arunachala Pancharatnam.
He talks about the states of mind that you have referred to;I do not think that a sincere seeker needs to be concerned with all this.
Even Pranayama is not well appreciated by some of these devotees,including sadhu Om(Please see his commentary on verse 4 of ArunAchala Pancharatnam)-they consider it as a means to artificially still the mind,which it need not be.
The Objective of Pranayama is to increase the Vital Energy(prAna)and strengthen the Vital sheath.The immediate benefit of this is that it calms the mind and prevents it from going into oscillation by way of Desire or Fear.This can be immediately experienced and verified and this does help to purify the mind,for it rids the mind of its cherished habits.
The Right way of doing prAnAyAma is to balance the inhalation and Exhalation,maintaining the Rhythm and even flow through both the Nostrils.
The wrong way is to hold the Breath forcibly-and this is what is to be avoided.
When pranayama is practised the Right way,the attention is freed from the pull of the senses and the external world and can be turned inwards towards the core of the Being- DhyAna.This is the way of Yoga and Sri Bhagavan validates this approach in verse 4.
In verse 3,he refers to self -enquiry.
A seeker can make use of the entire Armory at his disposal-be it Bhakti,Yoga and Jnana.
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian,
In verse 5 of Pancharatna ,Sri Bhagavan extols the way of Bhakti,having covered jnana vichara and yoga in verses 3 and 4.
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru pAlaithuRai - 614 202.
This place is now called PapanAsam and this can be reached from Thanjavur via Pasupati Kovil. At the entrance of the temple there is a large silo which was used to store about 25,000 kgs of paddy in the olden days. This silo is an old artifact which is not taken care of today. Thanjavur is called the Rice Bowl of Tamizh Nadu. This silo is a witness from the old years.
Siva is called pAlai vana nAthar. Uma is called dhavala veNNakai Ammai, one who smiles and shows her pearl like white teeth.
The tirtham (holy waters) is river Kaveri. Tiru Navukkarasar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses.
When Daruka forest sages sent the tiger to harm Siva, Siva skinned the tiger and used the skin as his waist cloth. This is the place where it is said to have happened. Sage Vasishta, Sri Rama, Lakshmana, Sita and Arjuna are said to have prayed to Siva here.
*****
Dear Ravi,
Yes. Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam
covers Krupa Lakshanam of Brahman,
Swarupa Lakshanam of Brahman, Jnana\
marga, yoga/dhyana marga and bhakti marga in the five verses respectively.
Sri Bhagavan never belittled Pranayama. He said right from
Who am I? to all the other works, that Pranayama can be an effective aid to control the mind. In fact, He spoke of Kevala Kumbhaka on many occasions.
Subramanian. R
Sri Bhagavan about Free Will and
Destiny:
Talks No. 28.
...........
...........
Devotee: What is the relation between my free will and and the overwhelming might of the Omnipotent?
(a) Is omniscience of God consistent with ego's free will?
(b) Is omnipotence of God consistent with ego's free will?
(c) Are the natural laws consistent
with God's free will?
Maharshi: Yes. Free will is the present appearing to a limited faculty of sight and will. The same ego sees its past activity as falling into a course of 'law' or rules - its own free will being one of the links in that course of law.
Omnipotence and omniscience of God are then seen by the ego to have acted through the appearance of his own free will. So he comes to the conclusion that the ego must go by appearances. Natural laws are manifestations of God's will and they have been laid down.
...........
********
Sri Bhagavan about Free Will and Destiny:
Talks No. 193:
Maharshi observed: Free will and destiny are ever existent. Destiny is the result of past action. It concerns the body. Let the body act as may suit. Why are you concerned with it? Why do you pay attention to it? Free will and Destiny last as long as the body lasts. But wisdom (Jnana) transcends both. The Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance. Should anything happen, it happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and of other factors.
*******
Sri Bhagavan about Free Will and Destiny:
Talks No. 209:
Mr. B.C. Das, a Physics Lecturer asked about free will and destiny.
Maharshi: Whose will is it? 'It is mine', you may say. You are beyond will and fate. Abide as that and you transcend them both. That is the meaning of conquering destiny by will. Fate can be conquered. Fate is the result of past actions. By association with the wise, the bad tendencies are conquered. One's experiences are then viewed to their proper perspective.
I exist now. I am the enjoyer. I enjoy fruits of action. I was in the past and shall be in the future. Who is this 'I'? Finding this 'I' to be Pure Consciousness beyond action and enjoyment, freedom and happiness are gained. There is then no effort, for the Self is perfect and there remains nothing more to gain.
So long as there is individuality, one is the enjoyer and doer. But if it it is lost, the divine Will prevails and guides the course of events. The individual is perceptible to others who cannot perceive divine force. Restrictions and discipline are for other individuals and not for the liberated.
Free will is implied in the scriptural injunctions to be good. It implies overcoming the fate. It is done by wisdom. The fire of wisdom consumes all actions. Wisdom is required by association with the wise, or rather, its mental atmosphere.
*******
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 7:
ulahu aRivum onRai udhithu odungu
menum
ulahu aRivu thannAl oLirum - ulahu
aRivu
thonRi maRaithaRku idanAi thonRi
maRaiyathu oLirum
poonRamam ahthe poruL.
Although the world and its awareness rise and set as one, it is by the Awareness that the world shines. The Whole, wherefrom the world and its awareness rise and wherein they set, but which shines without rising and setting - That alone is Real.
The world of matter is inert and unintelligent, (achit), and requires to be illuminated by the mind. Apart from a knowing mind, the world is not given in experience. To experience it is to know it. Thus, the objective world and its awareness are correlates. They appear and disappear together. The togetherness of the object and its awareness is recognized by the VijnanavAdins (the Buddhist subjectivist) too. But he argues that, because the two are always presented together, they are identical. Blue and its cognition are non different, says he, as they are invariably seen together. In Advaita, however, a difference is made, from the empirical standpoint, between awareness and its object. The mind or psychosis apprehends the object. It is true that the two rise together. In waking and dreaming there is the objective world as well as the seeing mind. Yes, in dreaming too there is a world of objects, and it is objectively experienced in that state. In deep sleep there is neither the world nor the mind. Sleep is defined in the MAndukya as the state wherein one does not desire any objects nor see any dream. (mAndukya, 5). In the absence of the mind there, no objective experience is observed. So, it is clear that there is an invariable relation between mind and object. Yet, the difference between them is that the mind is the apprehender whereas the object is the apprehended. It is by the mind's light that the world shines.
The mind, however, has no light of its own. It too, like the object, is inert. But while it is capable of reflecting the light of intelligence, which is the Self, the object is not. In the Kootastha
Dipa of Panchadasi, the object is compared to a plastered wall and the mind to a mirror set therein. (Panchadasi, viii. 1-3). The mirror illumines the wall by the reflected rays the sun. Similarly, the mind knows the object, being endowed with the reflection of intelligence.
It is the Self alone that is self
luminous. It neither rises nor sets.
nodeti nAstam ety ekA samvidesA
swayam prabhA |
"It does not rise, nor dies it set - this consciousness which is one and self luminous." (Panchadasi i.7). In a well known context, the Panchadasi likens Self to the lamp set on a stage. The lamp gives light to the manager of the drama, to the actors, and to the audience without distinction. And it shines even when the theater is empty. Similarly, the Self which is the Witness-Intelligence (SAkshi Chaitanya) manifests egoity, the intelligence and the objects, and continues to shine even when they are non existent. The Self is the source of all light.
continued.....
Siva temples sung about in Saiva
Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru kuRukkai - 609 205.
This temple can be reached from MayiladutuRai by bus. There was a Sage by name Deergabahu, with long shoulders and forehands. He was doing abhishekam to Siva and his hands became shorter to facilitate doing of abhishekam. Hence this place is called kuRukkai - to shorten.
Siva is called Veerasthaneswarar. Uma is called Jnanambika. This one of the 8 veerasthana places, places of heroic sports of Siva. Here He burnt KAmA i.e. Manmatha, by His third eye.
There are special shrines for the Sage and also Vinayaka. Nandi, the Bull, the vehicle of Siva is there both on the front and also on the rear behind Siva linga, which is a rarity. The tirtham (holy waters) is called Soola Tirtham, a tank. The holy tree (Sthala Viruksham) is kadukkai (Indian myrobalan?) tree.
Tiru Navukkarasar has mentioned this temple in 12 of his verses. A little away from the temple is a hillock which contains sands like vibhuti or ashes. It is said to be the place where Manmatha was burnt
to ashes.
******
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 7:
continues....
The sense of egoism may be compared to the stage-manager, the intellect to the danseuse, and the objects to the audience; and the various sense- organs are the auxiliaries which aid the actress. All these are illumined without distinction by the witness-self. Just as the lamp on the dramatic stage shines without moving and without being affected by the movements of the actors and the audience, even so the Self which is permanent and unchanging manifests all things both within and without. (Panchadasi, x.11-15).
'Light' is a favorite symbol with the ancients for indicating the nature of the Absolute. We often speak of the 'light' or 'torch' of knowledge. The 'knowledge of the mind' with which we are mostly acquainted is dependent knowledge. It is contingent and fugitive. It is 'knowledge of' and requires to be hyphenated with the Self on the one hand and the object on the other. The Self is 'Knowledge-as' in the sense that its very nature is Knowledge. (Chit). Prajnanam Brahmam, the Absolute is Awareness. (Aitreya iii.3). It is pure unmixed consciousness (suddha chinamtram).
One of the conversations between Janaka and Yajnavalkya, as recorded in the BrhadAranyakA, (IV.iii), relates to the question of light. Janaka, the king asked, 'What light does a person have?'. He has the light of the Sun, O King,' replied the Sage, 'for with the sun, the light of the sun, indeed, as his light one sits, moves about, does his work and returns'. The royal pupil, was not thus to be silenced. When the sun has set, what happens The moon takes the place of the sun. In the absence of the moon? Fire becomes the light for man. When fire has gone out, what serves as man's light? Speech. And when speech is hushed, what light does a person have here? The final reply Yajnavalkya gave was: 'The Self (Atman), indeed is his light. For with the Self, verily, as his light, one sits, moves about, does his work and returns.' And when asked, 'Which is the Self?', the sage said, 'The person here among the senses is made of knowledge (Vijnanamayah), who is the light in the heart (hrdyantarjyotih). Being the same, he goes along both worlds, seeming to think, seeming to move about; for, falling asleep, he transcends the world and the forms of death.'
In the Katha Upanishad, there is a verse which says,
na tatra suryo bhAti na chandra
tArakam
nemA vidyuto bhAnti kuttoyam agnih
tam eva bhAntim anubhAti sarvam
tasya bhAsA sarvam idam vibhAti.
'Not there does the sun shine, nor the moon and stars; there lightnings shine not; how can fire shine? After Him, as He shines, everything shines; with His light, all this is illumined.' (II. ii.15). The same truth is taught in the Bhagavad Gita, 'That, the sun does not illumine, nor the moon, nor fire. Attaining which one does not return, that abode supreme is Mine.' (xv. 6).
It is this ancient truth that Sri Bhagavan declares when He says that the Self is that 'where from the world and its awareness rise and where in they set', which but shines without rising and setting -- that alone is the Real. The real Self is the 'Whole', the Full (poornam). In the language of the mathematics of Infinity, Scripture says:
poornam adah poornam idam
poornAt poornam udacyate
poornasya poornam AdAya
poornamevAshisyate.
"That is full, this is full, from the full the full rises; taking away the full from the full, the full alone remains.'
Verse 7 concluded.
****
Sri Bhagavan about Free Will and Destiny:
Talks No. 210:
Sri Bhagavan said:
Man owes his movements to another Power, whereas he thinks that he does everything himself - just like a lame man bluffing that when he helped to stand up, he would fight and chase away the enemy. Action impelled by desire; desire arises only after the rise of the ego; and this ego owes its origin to a Higher Power on which its existence depends. It cannot remain apart. Why then prattle, 'I do, I act, or I function?'
A Self realized being cannot help benefiting the world. His very existence is the highest good.
*******
Sri Bhagavan about Free Will and Destiny:
Talks No. 346:
Sri Bhagavan:
Free will and Destiny last as long as the body lasts. But wisdom transcends both, for the Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Free will and
Destiny:
Talks No. 426:
........
........
Devotee: Has man any Free Will or is everything in his life predestined and preordained?
Maharshi: Free Will holds the field in association with individuality. As long as individuality lasts so long as there is Free Will. All the sasras are based on this fact and they advise directing the Free Will
in the right channel.
Find out to whom Free Will or Destiny matters. Abide in it. Then
these two are transcended. That is the only purpose of discussing these questions. To whom do these questions arise? Find out and be at peace.
........
******
Are We All Misfits?
(Editorial in Mountain Path, Jan. -
Mar. 2009.):
The first time a new comer crosses the gateway of the Asramam, it is generally experienced as a momentous event. For many, the journey up to that point was lonely and tortuous until a moment occurred when reading a book on Sri Bhagavan, seeing a photograph or hearing someone else relate their experience at Arunachala, ignited the conviction, 'Yes, this could be what I am searching for.'
Those first steps into the Asramam are often accompanied by an overwhelming feeling of having come home. This relief is mixed with the recognition that we are not alone after all. The fact there are others who are making a similar voyage reassures us that we are on the right track and are not isolated misfits. At last we are not cut off. By 'cut off' we mean not only feeling physically separate by choice or circumstance but also the condition many suffer of being among family and peers but feeling psychologically alone with no obvious sympathizer present who understands our predicament.
In the stages leading up to that sensation of truly coming home it is rare that seekers have found the preceding conditions to be smooth. More often we stumble, for the road can be dark, rough and fraught with frightening uncertainty. The world seems deaf to our pleas and we wander in those familiar deserts of perplexity and yearning. But we learn, through the power of myth that it is the same dark road that many heroes and heroines in antiquity traveled. We hear of the same story today through the biographies of those great souls we call saints or sages and we also hear of their failures both glorious and ignominious, for rare is the person who unites body, speech and thought in one seamless flow.
We speak not just of a common outward journey but also the inner geography of the mind, for like the outer world, the inner landscape is familiar territory for how else could we communicate our thoughts and emotions if others did not recognize them in themselves? We are not so different from each other; the principles are the same though our expression of them is unique.
It is an essential aspect of our growth that the journey contains obstacles and adventures. They test our mettle and broaden our vision. The mandatory doubts are a key aspect of the quest. How, but in opposition and reflection are faith and peace born in our hearts and minds?
Though we would like to be brace and wise we would prefer a vision that does not demand change and the inevitable pain of transformation. When we question our sanity, we are actually asking for guidance. For when we see the lack of balance in our lives and the limitations of our own understanding, we realize our desperation to alleviate the pain and ignorance. We know the why but what of the how?
Realizing that we are misfits is not a curse but a blessing. Complacency is the real curse. There is sanity in seeing our confusion and the recognition of our ignorance. Aside from the factor of a chemical imbalance in our physical bodies, which can be addressed by medicine, what then if
we are physically fine, why do we suffer from disquiet and depression? We should consider that our so called insanity in the 'real world' is not necessarily madness but a healthy response to the absurd values prevalent. For it is not rampant greed that has no consideration for others' insanity?
Is not unchecked anger and aggression a madness which damages ourselves as well as others? To neurotically strive to become a faultless personality is itself a form of madness. There is no such state as perfect happiness where everything fits into place according to our desires and expectations.
continued....
Are We All Misfits:
(Mountain Path, Editorial - Jan. -
Mar. 2009)
continues....
Realizing we do not fit in with social conventions opens up a range of possibilities. It causes us to question the customary wisdom and to seek answers by which we can live in harmony with both external and world and our inner intuitive truth.
By facing our fears and quelling needless desires, we gain the ability to patiently wait at the door, until we know the right question to ask. Stepping over the boundary into the Asramam is a visible sign of our commitment to our inner journey. We have passed through the necessary portal that opens up into an exalted fresh domain, but after the initial euphoria, we see it is but the first positive step in a brave new venture. We are full of quiet confidence at the rightness of it all. Those who make this step and come to the realization that they are no longer misfits, indeed they now fit in with their surroundings, are often filled with joy and a desire to make friends with others of like mind; to learn, to teach and to share; although it must be said that many have been so conditioned by life to a solitary crankiness that it takes a while to let all of that go!
Though we may unconsciously know it but can do nothing about it, we are split into fragments of character where each vies with the others for supremacy. We abound with inconsistencies. Who has not made a resolution but to find the next moment it is annulled by a separate warring bloc in oneself? Our task is to reunite these splintered elements into one coherent whole. Insanity is where we are blindly ruled by forces within us over which we have no control, when we apparently cannot help ourselves. Who has not experienced the wild ride of emotions as we are torn apart when our fragile interior world is shocked by threatening circumstances? In a minute we can veer between incredulity, anger, fear, resentment, contempt, revenge and dread and then, it starts all over again like a broken mechanical toy reliving shards of programmed memory. We are never safe and secure. Nothing is guaranteed; all is in flux. If anyone needs a reminder, let them remember on a highway, when a second earlier or later would have resulted in a crash. We all have had close calls through chance or coincidence. The surprise is how consistently lucky we are to be alive and how fast we forget this blessing after a moment of shock.
The comprehension that there is nowhere infallible to place our feet is sobering. We walk on air wherever the evidence we may conjure up to the contrary. Many of us develop patterns which reassure us that all is well and we have our live under control. This is what the conventions of culture, religion and education create in us; models of behavior by which we can live with ourselves and others in relative stability. Few venture over the edge of certainty and look into the deep. But at a certain point we must if we wish to solve the riddle of our own identity. When we range beyond the known and for us today that is not physical foreign land, but the hinterland of our own unconscious, we anticipate and dread the demons and dangers we will encounter. The universe is within us. We are a microcosm of the terrestrial. The world we see with our physical realm is a reflection of our inner dreams. This quest often results in our being misfits in our own circle, although our friends and enemies are more often than not the projected images of or own desires and fears. In becoming who we really are on all levels including this physical realm, lies fulfillment and transcendence.
continued.....
R.Subramanaian,
The Editorial of The Mountain Path (Jan-March 2009)seems to be written by someone who has not much exposure to spiritual Tradition.
He says 'We are misfits when we declare that we are more than our possessions,we are more than our education and connections'.
Sorry Mr Editor,that is the way , you have imagined yourself to be!
For one who has been exposed to the Upanishads,that proclaim-'Na KarmanA Na PrajayA dhanena,thyagE naike amritatva mAnasuhu'-'Neither by Karma,nor by progeny,nor by wealth,only by renunciation alone is immortality attained'-this is elementary.In fact one is deemed fit and balanced ,only when one gets past the Artha and Kama aspect and make them subservient to Dharma and leading to Moksha.
The sanatana Dharma did not make a sharp contrast between worldly and spiritual standpoints.
There is just Life,and it needs to be lived in a deep ,balanced and fulfilling way.All are travelling the same path and no one is a misfit;each and everyone is in a different stage of unfoldment.The Goal is the same for all.
Namaskar.
rrFriends,
Here is a wonderful saying of Swami Vivekananda:
"We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. If what we are now has been the result of our own past actions, it certainly follows that whatever we wish to be in future can be produced by our present actions; so we have to know how to act."
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
Chempon paLLi - ChembanAr kovil -
609 309.
This temple can be reached from MayiladutuRai by bus. Indra and Kubera are said to have prayed to Siva here.
Siva is called Swarnapuriswarar. Swarnam = gold = pon in Tamizh. chempon means reddish gold. Uma is called MaruvAr kuzhali, the lady with tresses having various herbal leaves and flowers. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Veerabhadra Tirtham. The temple trees (Sthala Viruksham) are two,
Vani and Bhilwa trees.
Tiru Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses and Tiru Navukkarasar in 20 of his verses.
*******
Sri Bhagavan about Mahavakyas:
Talks No. 92:
A visitor said: Some say that one should practice meditation on gross objects only; it may be disastrous if one constantly seeks to kill the mind.
Maharshi: For whom is it disastrous? Can there be disaster apart from the Self?
Unbroken 'I-I' is the ocean infinite, the ego, 'I-thought', remains only a bubble on it and is called Jiva, i.e. individual soul. The bubble too is water; when it bursts it only mixes in the ocean. When it remains a bubble it is still a part of the ocean. Ignorant of this simple truth, innumerable methods under different denominations, such as Yoga, Bhakti, Karma... each again with many modifications, are being taught with great skill and in intricate detail only to entice the seekers and confuse their minds. So also are the religions and sects and dogmas. What are they all for? Only for knowing the Self. They are aids and practices required for knowing the Self.
Objects perceived by the senses are spoken of as immediate knowledge (pratyaksha). Can anything be as direct as the Self, -- always experienced without the aid of the senses? Sense perceptions can only be indirect knowledge, and not direct knowledge. Only one's own awareness is direct knowledge, as is the common experience of one and all. No aids are needed to know one's own Self, i.e. to be aware.
The one Infinite Unbroken Whole (plenum) becomes aware of itself as 'I'. This is its original name. All other names, e.g., OM, are all later developments. Liberation is only to remain aware of the Self. The Mahavakya "I am Brahman" is its authority. Though the 'I' is always experienced, yet one's attention has to be drawn to it. Only then does knowledge dawn. Thus the need for the instruction of the Upanishads and of wise sages.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mahavakyas:
Talks No. 105:
Maharshi: Yena asrutam srutam bhavati
(Chandogya Upanishad). By knowing which, all the unknowwn becomes known.
Madhavaswami, Sri Bhagavan's attendant: Are there nine methods of teaching the Mahavakya -
Tat tvam asi in the Chandogya Upanishad?
Maharshi: No. Not so. The method is only one. Uddalaka started teaching Sat eva Somya ... (There is only Being..) illustrating it with Svetaketu's fast.
(1) Sat, the Being in the individual, is made obvious by the fast.
(2) This (Sat) Being is similar in all, as honey gathered from different flowers.
(3) There is no difference in the Sat of individuals as illustrated by the state of deep sleep. The question arises -- if so, why does not each know it in sleep?
(4) Because the individuality is lost. There is only Sat left. Illustration: rivers lost in the ocean. If lost, is there Sat?
(5) Surely, -- as when a tree is pruned it grows again. that is a sure sign of life. But is it there even in that dormant condition?
(6) Yes, take the instance of salt and water. The presence of the salt in the water is subtle. Though invisible to the eye it is recognized by other senses. How is one to know it? What is the other means?
(7) By inquiry, as the man left in the Gandhara forest regained his home.
(8) In evolution and involution, in manifestation and resolution, Sat
alone exists. Tejah parasyam, devatayam (the light merges in the Supreme).
(9) An insincere man is hurt by the touch of the fire test. His insincerity is brought out by fire. Sincerity is Self evident. A true man or a Self realized man remains happy, without being affected by the false appearances (namely, the world, birth and death, etc.,), whereas the false or ignorant man is miserable.
*****
Sri Bhagavan about Mahavakyas:
Talks No. 185:
Maharshi: In the sacred literature, the following are seen:-
'Said without uttering'
'Showed remaining still as ever,' etc.,
Which is this unspoken word? It is only Silence, Pranava or the Mahavakya. These are also called the Word.
*****
Talks No. 511:
........
........
To a further question, Sri Bhagavan answered: There are said to be Panchapada Mahavakyani (Mahavakyas with five words) e.g. Tat tvam asi atinijam (You are That is the great truth). The first three words have their lakshyarta (significance) all of which signify only the one
Truth. So many efforts and so much discipline are said to be necessary for eradicating the non existing avidya!
*******
Sri Bhagavan about Mahavakyas:
Talks No. 519:
Maharshi: The mahavakyas and their interpretation lead to interminable discussions and keep the minds of the seekers engaged externally. To turn the mind inward the man must directly settle down in the "I". Then there is an end of external activities and perfect Peace prevails.
Later, a passage from the Yoga Vasishta was read out before Sri Bhagavan, indicating initiation by look and initiation by touch.
Sri Bhagavan observed: Sri Dakshinamurti observed silence when the disciples approached Him. That is the highest form of initiation. It includes the other forms. There must be subject-object relationship established in the other dikshas. First the subject must emanate and then the object. Unless these two are there how is the one to look at the other or touch him? Mouna Diksha is the most perfect; it comprises looking, touching, and teaching. It will purify the individual in every way and establish him in the Reality.
******
Sri Bhagavan about Mahavakyas:
Talks No. 647:
..........
Devotee: If the state is natural, why does it not overcome the unnatural phases and assert itself over the rest?
Maharshi: Is there anything beside that? Does any one see anything besides the Self? One is always aware of the Self. So It is always Itself.
Devotee: It is said, because It shines forth, It is directly perceived. I understand from it that It becomes pratyaksha (directly perceived), because It is pradeepta (shining), and hence admits of obstacles and goes under them. If the Atma becomes prakarshena deepta (very shining) it will shine over the rest. So it seems to be necessary to make it shine more.
Maharshi: How can it be so? The Atman cannot be dull at one moment and blazing at another. It is unchanging and uniform.
Devotee: But Chudala says to Sikhidvaja that she simply helped to trim the wick.
Maharshi: That refers to nididhyasana.
By sravana, Knowledge dawns. That is the flame.
By manana, the Knowledge is not allowed to vanish. Just as the flame is protected by a wind screen, so the other thoughts are not allowed to overwhelm the right knowledge.
By nididhyasana, the flame is kept up to burn brightly by trimming the wick. Whenever other thoughts arise, the mind is turned inward to the light of true knowledge.
When it becomes natural, it is Samadhi.
The inquiry 'Who am I?' is the sravana. The ascertainment of the true import of 'I' is the manana. The practical application on each occasion is nididhyasana. Being as
"I" is Samadhi.
Devotee: Although we have heard it so often and so constantly yet we are unable to put the teaching into practice successfully. It must be due to weakness of mind. Is it possible that one's age is a bar?
Maharshi: The mind is commonly said to be strong if it can think furiously. But here the mind is strong if it is free from thoughts. The yogis say that realization can be had only before the age of thirty, but not the Jnanis. For Jnana does not cease to exist with the age.
It is true that in Yoga Vasishta, Vasishta says to Rama in the Vairagya Prakarana, 'You have this dispassion in your youth. It is admirable.' But he did not say that Jnana cannot be had in old age. There is nothing to prevent it in old age.
The Sadhak must remain as the Self. If he cannot do so, he must ascertain the true meaning of the 'I' and constantly revert to it whenever other thoughts arise. That is the practice.
Some say that one must know the 'Tat' because the idea of the world constantly arises to deflect the mind. If the Reality behind it is first ascertained it will be found to be Brahman. The 'tvam' is understood later. It is the Jiva. Finally there will be jiva brahmaikya (union of the two).
..........
Maharshi: Each one knows the self but is yet ignorant. The person is enabled to realize only after hearing the mahavakya. Hence the Upanishadic text is the eternal truth to which every one who has realized owes his experience. After hearing the Self to be the Brahman the person finds the true import of the Self and reverts to it whenever he is diverted from it. Here is the
whole process of Realization.
******
Are We All Misfits?
(Editorial in Mountain Path, Jan. -
Mar. 2009)
continues......
Who am I? This is a profound question which has been trivialized by our well meaning but feeble attempts to make intellectual sense of it all. We actually don't know, despite the strident assertions we and others make to the contrary. Sri Bhagavan often quoted the statement in the Bible: 'I am that I am', to clearly point out the true nature of our being. We all use the word 'I' to connote what we think or feel at the present moment. What we all mistakenly do is to identify that sense of 'I' with a 'me', 'my' and 'mine'. It is not true. We may as well say that a favorite shirt or gold chain is 'me' for reasons of ownership and as a statement of style or money -- our earning power --, which is absurd. Nobody is defined by their shirt, let alone their car or house or family or country. These are all secondary. They are effects and not the cause of our existence. 'I am' is the one and only basis for our existence. Without it we are literally noting, a void. But we know we are not emptiness. How? By simply being conscious we affirm we exist. This is not intellectual exercise but is felt with our whole being. It is when we associate that existence with an object or a thought we are in trouble because nothing is ours. For most human beings this realization comes only in the last moments before death when all is swept away. Denying this is as much use as standing in the ocean and asking the roll of the waves not to knock us over. The wise English King Canute demonstrated to his fawning courtiers that his power did indeed have limits when he challenged the forces of nature on a beach and when he failed to stop the waves, he demonstrated how empty were the words of insincerity. We also are in the same position when we parade our own importance. Eventually all that we cling to will fade and dissolve into the void. Who has not read or heard stories of the great achievers in our history who in their last years realize that all they have done is ephemeral.
We are misfits when we declare we are more than our possessions, we are more than our education and connections. We do not subscribe to the party line not because we don't want to (we are desperate at times
to conform) but because we can't. That is the niggle of a restive voice inside which calls into doubt our certainties. Whether we realize it or not being a misfit is a benefit. It is when we pretend to be like others and sell our sense
of 'I' in the market place of conformity we lose our soul and are condemned to suffer the fate of the collective. We can see this in an extreme historical form when Hitler mesmerized the German people with his megalomania and led them to believe in an invincible empire that would last a thousand years. Those who were not sucked into the fantasy were branded anti social and a threat. Misfits, in other words. The ones who were lulled to sleep suffered its terrible consequences. We can learn from this terrible example that when we identify with an idea or feeling we will inexorably be caught up with its consequences for good or evil. In other words, let us be careful what we associate with 'I' as it will determine our choices. Being a misfit can be the opportunity for liberation.
Devotee: Should we not be patriotic?
Maharshi: It is not your job to be this and that. Be as you are.
concluded.
Dear Ravi,
At the time of editorial, 'Are We All Misfits?', i.e in Jan-Mar 2009, the editorial board of Mountain Path comprised of -
Christopher Quilkey
S. Ram Mohan
V. Subramanian.
I shall write to Christopher Quilkey on the points raised by you, for his clarifications.
Subramanian. R
Dear Friends,
I would like to reproduce here, enlightening and very thought provoking talks given by Brahma Sri Nochur Venkataraman, as under:
For realising God, the first requisite is a burning desire to do so. This is what every Mahan comes into the world to teach. It is not necessary that we know who or what God is. When the time is right, He will reveal Himself to us by sending a Sadguru into our lives who will give us the requisite Upadesha and confer liberation. But the pre requisite to all this is the ceaseless Taapam - loosely translated, a burning desire, which makes us extremely uncomfortable in our present state of being. What is required is the thought process which reprimands us for enjoying so many sensory pleasures while age and time slip through our hands; taking congnisance of that fact that we lack seriousness in what is perhaps the most serious thing in our lives and spend our lives instead on other worthless pursuits.
To illustrate this point, a story that Buddha said may be used - A man who is walking on a mountain, loses his balance and falls. He finds a rope to hang on to from which he hopes to come to safety. Above him stands a tiger that was in hot pursuit. Below lies a dangerous depth, into which if he were to fall, not even a shred of his body may be recovered. And is his rope strong enough? No .... There is a rat gnawing away at the rope!! This is the predicament of the man. And in the midst of this, there is a drop of honey that drips from a honeycomb. Impervious to the danger that he is in, this man tries to reach for that honey!! This is exactly human existence. Fraught with dangers on all sides. The rat called Time is gnawing away at our lives, and we seek momentary pleasure in watching television and mindless gossip wasting an already too short lifespan!!
Contd..
Cond.,
Bhartruhari says in a sarcastic manner, that we in the world are so busy, engrossed in the meaningless day to day pursuits that we do not have the time to look inwards or strive for emancipation! How ironic!
आदित्यस्य गतागतैरहरहः संक्षीयते जीवितं
व्यापारैर्बहुकार्यभारगुरुभिः कालोऽपि न ज्ञायते ।
दृष्ट्वा जन्मजराविपत्तिमरणं त्रासश्च नोत्पद्यते
पीत्वा मोहमयीं प्रमादमदिरामुन्मत्तभूतं जगत् ॥४३॥
The sun rises and sets, each day goes past and the only assurance we have is that the day that is gone shall never come back again, time slips through our fingers and what do we do? He says that life is going out consistently like water which is going out of a leaky mud pot, but we are busy immersed in the day to day affairs of life (व्यापारैर्बहुकार्यभारगुरुभिः). (very seriously engaged in various duties) We claim that we are so busy that we do not have the time to think of God!!! Some people say, "I wish I could come to your Satsangam, but I am so busy, so many duties, I am not able to. Please forgive me". The tone that they use seems to imply that they consider coming to the Satsangam a favour that they bestow on others (the person who is giving the pravachanam)
This is how people pass through life, blithely unaware of Time slipping through their fingers, never to come back again. Is it that they never get an opportunity to contemplate on all this or does God does not remind us about these? No .... God reminds them in various ways - four ways to be exact(दृष्ट्वा जन्मजराविपत्तिमरणं) We see children being born, a man in the prime of his youth move on to Old age, calamities, disaster and accidents, and then finally, the clincher of all - Death. He says he is amazed at how people remain unafraid in the midst of all this. And why is it that man is not afraid? He is inebriated with the toddy of ignorance. That intoxication has spoilt his mental balance and so he manages to remain unafraid (त्रासश्च नोत्पद्यते) The world is caught in a fit of madness, he says. Man is drunk on ignorance and his thinking faculties are dulled by it (पीत्वा मोहमदिरां) This world is gotten mad (उन्मत्तभूतं जगत्) If men were drunk on Bhakthi it would be fine. That is an ecstasy which uplifts, but unfortunately man is drunk on ignorance and his thinking faculties are dulled by it. Which is why he refuses to think, is unable to think in fact, about time which is going past too fast.
But what the sages say is that a man should strive to Realise God with the same urge with which a man would run towards water, had his head caught fire (प्रदीप्त शिरहा जलराशिमिव). It is with the same sense of urgency that one should pursue God – Realisation (समिप्पाणिः श्रोत्रियम् ब्रह्मनिष्ठमुपगच्छेत्). And this samsara, has been as disconcerting as fire on one's head for Bhakthas and Rishis.
Regards
Nagaraj
Devi Kalottaram, Jnana vichara Padalam:
I was going through some verses in the above work of Sri Bhagavan in the afternoon. Today coincidentally, is Wednesday, when in the evening in Tamizh Parayana, this treatise is chanted.
Verse 33 attracted me much.
Niddirai yinAlum ninaivAdi yAlu-
nidam
Chittan tAn mooda mihach
cheerazhiyun - chitta midai
Yettanat tAlE unartti eehAmal
tannilaiyil
Vaittiud vAi mEn mElum vai.
The mind during Sadhana, often strays due to sleep and diverse thoughts in dream and jagrat. Many devotees have said to Sri Bhagavan that they fall into sleep while meditating. Sri Bhagavan has said with great compassion to them: Please continue your meditation on being awake. Diverse thoughts coming in dream and jagrat are of course well known. These tendencies are due to want of discrimination and the mind's well being becomes increasingly befooled. Instructing the mind that inherence in the Self alone can provide peace and comfort. Persevere relentlessly and again and again poise the mind in the Self.
Sleep is a state granted by Lord to the Jiva. None can go beyond it. Even if sleep is not desired, it will not let one go out of its grip. It automatically envelops one in spite of the resistance.
While Sri Bhagavan recommended sleep for 4 to 6 hours, too much sleep is an enemy. Of course, people who are sick have to sleep for more hours. People who do hard labor has to sleep for more hours. For others limited sleep is always good.
Endeavoring inherence of mind, anchoring the mind in its own source and make it verily the form of that source without giving room for it to indulge in thoughts or too much sleep, is referred to by Sri Bhagavan as 'tannilaiyil vaittidvai.' - establish the mind
in one's natural state - the Self.
Endeavoring this just once will not do. Constant vigil, practice with perseverance are required to accomplish it.
The content of this verse is also echoed in MAndukya Upanishad, Karika, 3-42, 44, 46.
******
R.subramanian,
"I shall write to Christopher Quilkey on the points raised by you, for his clarifications."
He is entitled to his views.
He needs to examine the safety in numbers-"The fact there are others who are making a similar voyage reassures us that we are on the right track and are not isolated misfits. At last we are not cut off."
Conviction is not something born out of 'number of persons following the path'.It is lack of conviction that seeks security in 'we as misfits'.
My views are just mine and definitely the editor is free to have his.
He says:"The world seems deaf to our pleas and we wander in those familiar deserts of perplexity and yearning."
For a child the world is its parents and Grandparents,the family in which it is born.If the Family is steeped in Dharmic ways and Rich Spiritual Tradition,this becomes a rich ,positive foundation for the child to grow up and flower.Such a child when it grows up learns to assume responsibility for whatever one does,and never gives in to the victimization complex.The seeds of devotion and wisdom sown by the Elders,sprout in time and comes to aid in the unfoldment.All obstacles only strengthen the determination of the aspirant to stick to the path.Such a one does not blame circumstance,persons,or events but confidently faces Life in the World with the quiet trust that what has brought him here will surely take care of him and lead him to whatever he needs to learn and wherever he needs to go.Although he understands the evanescence of life in the world,he equally respects the unlimited opportunities that providence has in its bountiful Grace offered to one and all.
He who is tired of Life cannot aspire to live the life of spirit.
As mahAkavi Bharati sang:
தேடிச் சோறு நிதந்தின்று-பல
சின்னஞ்சிறு கதைகள் பேசி-மனம்
வாடித் துன்பமிக உழன்று-பிறர்
வாடப் பலசெயல்கள் செய்து- நரை
கூடிக் கிழப்பருவம் எய்தி - கொடுங்
கூற்றுக் கிரையெனப்பின் மாயும்- பல
வேடிக்கை மனிதரைப் போலே-நான்
வீழ்வேனென்று நினைத்தாயோ
Did you think I too will
Spend my days in
search of food,
Tell petty tales,
Worry myself with thoughts,
Hurt others by my acts,
Turn senile with grey hair
And end up as fodder to the
relentless march of time
As yet another faceless man?
continued...
Mahakavi BhArati continued...
"நான்"
வானிற் பறக்கின்ற புள்ளெலாநான்
மண்ணிற் றிரியும் விலங்கெலாநான்
கானிழல் வளரு மரமெலாநான்
காற்றும் புனலுங் கடலுமேநான்.
விண்ணிற் றெரிகின்ற மீனெலாநான்
வெட்ட வெளியின் விரிவெலாநான்
மண்ணிற் கிடக்கும் புழுவெலாநான்
வாரியி லுள்ள வுயிரெலாநான்.
கம்ப னிசைத்த கவியெலாநான்
காருகர் தீட்டு முருவெலாநான்
இம்பர் வியக்கின்ற மாட கூடம்
எழினகர் கோபுரம் யாவுமேநான்.
இன்னிசைமாத ரிசையுளேனான்
இன்பத் திரள்க ளனைத்துமேநான்
புன்னிலை மாந்தர்தம் பொய்யெலாநான்
பொறையருந் துன்பப் புணர்ப்பெலாநான்.
மந்திரங் கோடி யியக்குவோனான்
இயங்கு பொருளி னியல்பெலாநான்
தந்திரங் கோடி சமைத்துளோனான்
சாத்திர வேதங்கள் சாற்றினோனான்.
அண்டங்கள் யாவையு மாக்கினோனான்
அவைபிழை யாமே சுழற்றுவோனான்
கண்டநற் சக்திக் கணமெலாநான்
காரண மாகிக் கதித்துளோனான்.
நானெனும் பொய்யை நடத்துவோனான்
ஞானச் சுடர்வானிற் செல்லுவோனான்
ஆன பொருள்க ளனைத்தினு மொன்றாய்
அறிவாய் விளங்கு முதற்சோதி நான்.
I
I am all the sky's buzzing bees
I am all the earth's roaming animals
I am all the forest's tall shady trees
I am the air, the floods and the sea.
I am all the stars seen in space
I am all the wide earth's expanse
I am all the earth's wiggly worms
I am all the earth's life forms.
I am all of Kamban's verses.
I am all of painter's images.
I am all the dazzling homes
And all this city's breathtaking domes.
I am the music in all those choirs
I am the strand of bliss in all lifes.
I am the lies in all those sinners
I am the agony of all those deaths.
I am the magician of million illusions
I am the essence of all things real
I am the trickster with a bag of tricks
I am the author of all the learned tomes.
I am the creator of all the galaxies
I am the director who makes them work flawlessly.
I am all the army of the Goddess
I am all the reason behind rationality.
I am the creator of the illusion that's me.
I am the traveller in the path of wisdom
I am the flame of unifying knowledge
in all things ever created.
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
Thanks for those beautiful Bharathiyar poems.
The words of Swami Vivekananda and Bharathiyar are verily Dynamites!
Regards
Nagaraj
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Pallavaneecharam - 609 105:
This is quite close to SirkAzhi, the birth place of Tiru Jnana Sambandha. One can reach this place by car or autorickshaw from SirkAzhi.
Siva is called Pallavaneswarar. Uma is called Soundara Nayaki. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called Panchakshara Tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Mango tree. Tiru Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 22 of his verses.
The place and temple got its name because all Pallava kings prayed to this Siva. It is also the birth place of IyaRpahai Nayanar (one of 63 Saiva Saints) and PattinathAr, a famous siddha.
******
Dear Ravi,
Thanks for Bharati's songs. My father is a great lover of Bharati and my first sister is named after Bharati, Kannamma. She retired as a Professor in Mathematics in a Chennai college.
Sri Bhagavan has said that Subrahmanya Bharati met Him in the early years in the Hill.
Whenever I am worried about something, I used to chant:
ennaik kavalaigal thinnath thahAthena
ninnai charan adainthen kannamma*
ninnai charan adainthen
*There is also version where this word appears as ParAsakti.
Subramanian. R
Sri Bhagavan about 'traveling in conveyance, superimposing':
Talks No. 78:
.......
Devotee: Our work-a-day life is not compatible with such efforts.
Maharshi: Why do you think that you are active? Take the gross example of your arrival here. You left home in a cart, took train, alighted at the Railway Station here, got into a cart there and found yourself here in this Asramam. When asked, you say that you traveled here all the way from your town. Is it true? Is it not a fact that you remained as you were and there were movements of conveyances all along the way. Just as those movements are confounded with your own, so also the other activities. They are not your own. They are God's activities.
Devotee: Such idea will lead to blankness of mind and the work will not progress well.
Maharshi: Go up to that blankness and tell me afterwards.
Devotee: They say that a visit to Sages helps Self Realization?
Maharshi: Yes. So it does.
Devotee: Will not my present visit to you bring it about?
Maharshi: (After a short pause) What is to be brought about? To whom? Consider; investigate. To whom is this doubt. If the source is traced the doubts will disappear.
******
Sri Bhagavan about 'traveling in conveyance, superimposing.'
Talks No. 251:
.........
Devotee: ....When I am back in my place, I want to remember Sri Bhagavan. May Sri Bhagavan be pleased to grant my prayer!
Maharshi: Where are you going? You are not going anywhere. Even supposing you are the body, has your body come from Lucknow to Tiruvannamlai? You had simply sat in the car and one conveyance or another had moved; and finally you say that you have come here. The fact is that you are not the body. The Self does not move. The world moves in it. You are only what you are. There is no change in you. So even after what looks like departure from here, you are here and there and everywhere. These scenes shift. As for Grace, -- Grace is within you. If it is external it is useless. Grace is the Self. You are never out of its operation. Grace is always there.
........
*******
Sri Bhagavan about 'traveling in conveyance, superimposing.'
Talks No. 311:
........
Devotee: The ego is the one which reincarnates.
Maharshi: Yes. But what is reincarnation? The ego remains the same. New bodies appear and hold it. The ego does not change. It does not leave one body, seek and find another. Just see what happens even to your gross body. Suppose you go to London. How do you do it? You take a conveyance, go to the docks, board the steamer and reach London in a few days. What has happened? The conveyances had moved, but not your body. Still you say that you traveled from one part of the globe to the other part. The movements of the conveyances have been superimposed on your body. Similarly also with ego. The reincarnations are superimpositions. For example, what happens in a dream? Do you go to the dream world or does it occur in you? Surely, the latter. Just the same with incarnations. The ego remains changeless all along.
.........
*******
Nagaraj/Friends,
There is indeed a connection between Swamiji and Bharati!The link is Sister Nivedita who Bharati considered as his guru.
The turning point in Subramania Bharati’s life came in 1906 with his meeting Sister Nivedita, disciple of Swami Vivekananda, the first nun of the Ramakrishna Mission, an English woman, who had made India her home and taken up social work and social service as her mission and specially work for and among women, including their education. He bowed to her and recognised in her Mother Shakti. And she said to him, “My son, remove all your mental reservations, forget uncivilized differentiations such as caste, creed and birth. Enthrone love in your heart. You will become a divine being enshrined in the pages of history.” These words of Sister Nivedita have proved to be a prophecy as we see, while we celebrate the birth centenary of Subramania Bharati. She made personal inquiries from him and learning that he had a wife and a daughter, asked why he had not brought them. On being told this was not their custom, she said: “How can one half of a society win freedom, when it enslaves the other half? Let the past be forgotten. Henceforth hold her as your left hand and praise her in your heart as an angel.”
The Irrepressible Bharati became tongue-tied before Sister Nivedita as he listened to her words of wisdom.
It was this incident that lead him to become a champion of women’s freedom, equality and welfare as an essential part of national renaissance and emancipation. He has written: “Nations are made of homes. And so long you do not have justice and equality fully practised at home, you cannot expect to see them practised in your public life. Because it is the home life that is the basis of public life."
Bharati has acknowledged Sister Nivedita as his Guru and his inspiration and woven his worship of her in beautiful words thus:
“Nivedita ! Mother!
Thou, Temple consecrated to Love!
Thou, Sun dispelling my soul’s darkness!
Thou, Rain to the parched land of our Lives!
Thou, Helper of the helpless and lost!
Thou, Divine spark of Truth!
My salutations to Thee."
Nivedita gave a leaf to Bharati saying-'This is from Himalayas.Keep it'.
Bharati treasured this so much so that he carried it home and told his wife-'Please keep this carefully in your jewel box.It is priceless'.
Sage TGN who comes is born in the family of MahAkavi recounted to me how Bharatiyar's wife chellammAL told him-'There were no jewels in that box.Only this Leaf!'.
It is in a way Prophetic what swamiji has told Nivedita:
"Be thou, to India’s future son,
The mistress, servant, friend in one".
Bharati's poems cover a vast Range -pAppa PAttu(CHildren Songs),Kannan pAttu(Songs on Kannan-Krishna,which consists of twenty-three lyrics of great beauty.where he sings of Krishna as a friend, mother, father, servant, king, student, teacher, child, boy, lover, lady love and deity.),Shakti PAttu,Songs on Partiotism,Songs on Jnana,Kuyil pAttu(Songs of Cuckoo),etc.
Here is a Beauty from Kannan pAttu-pAyum oLi nee enakku':
“Thou to me the flowing Light,
And I to thee, discerning sight;
Honied blossom thou to me,
Bee enchanted I to thee:
O Heavenly Lamp with shining ray,
O Krishna, Love, O nectar-spray,
With falt’ring tongue and words that pant
Thy glories, here, I strive to chant."
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
This is information for me, i never knew this connection before. Thank you. btw, the translation of Bharathiyar poetry into English is really very nice. It is not easy, to retain the native beauty and the 'bhavam' that carries the weight of a personage such as Mahakavi.
i always felt Bharathiyar as the Vivekananda of the South.
Regards
Nagaraj
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 8:
eppeyar ittu evvuruvil Ethinum Ar pEr
uruvil
apporuLaik kAn vazhi adhu Ayinum am -
meiporuLin
uNmaiyil than uNmai yinai Ornthu
odungi onRuthale
uNmaiyil kANal unar.
Under whatever name and form that nameless and formless content of whole Truth is thought of and worshipped -- it is verily a way to see that Reality. Yet, to know the nature of one's Self as it is in the Truth of the True Reality and abide in it as one non dual Self is the True darshan(vision). Know this!
Sri Bhagavan says in this verse that worship with form is fruitful, providing a means to gain the ultimate - a door to realization - namely, to perceive, to become and be the formless Content beyond. Assigning a name and form to the nameless and formless and worshipping thus enables the worshipper to see the Lord in that form and name he ascribes, which however, is not true vision or darshan.
The Reality, being part less, unfragmented, whole and non dual Self, nothing other than That is Real. Any worship other than remaining as 'That', the indivisible Self, is not true vision.
Objective knowledge and experience are unreal, for they are subject to appearance and disappearance, and they imply an 'other' like the worshipper and the worshipped, beholder and the beheld. Brahman, or the Supreme Lord, being nameless, invisible, formless (unembodied) and indescribable transcends all these and can never become an object of experience, thought or indriyas or organs like eyes. Abiding as one's own Self, from which alone the aforesaid visions and knowledge arise, is said to be 'true vision'.
The Puranas speak of saints like Dhruva, Prahalada and Markandeya, who had darshan of the divine in the form and name they worshipped, as Vishnu and Siva. But even after the darshan of the Lord in the form and name of their choice, that they went ahead to undertake severe penance to gain the final state - the experience of Jnana - is history. This abundantly proves that divine visions cannot, by themselves, bestow the experience of being the Atman. For names and forms are upadhis ascribed, finite, limited and are within the orbit of the mind which has to be transcended to gain Jnana.
continued.....
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 8:
continues.....
"The vision of Siva to the eye signifies the existence of the eyes to see; the buddhi (intellect) lying behind the sight; the seer behind the buddhi and the sight; and finally the Consciousness underlying the seer. This vision is not as real as one imagines it to be, because it is not intimate and inherent, is not first hand. It is the result of several successive phases of Consciousness. Of these, Consciousness alone does not vary. It is eternal....It is the Self... There is no moment when the Self as Consciousness does not exist; nor can the seer remain apart from Consciousness.... I am Siva.. Siva is always realized here and now."
(Talks No. 450)
As long as the individuality of the Jiva remains, meditation on the formless Reality is well nigh impossible. Furthermore, the Jivas, constantly thinking of the worldly things, get saturated with worldliness, and such persons, totally of the world, cannot be made to think of the formless Reality. The way of the worship of the Unmanifest is difficult for those attached to the bodies. Worship with form is a helpful guide for weaning a mind soaked in worldliness away from the clutches
of the worldly bondage. It aids the annihilation of Jiva's name and form and his vasanas or his latent tendencies. Worshipping God with form, called Saguna Upasana, is also of help in the initial stages of one's journey within for this in itself will guide one gain the goal. 'The Infinite Eye', the eye that knows the fullness of oneself, is the state of Nirguna Brahman. Once a gentleman asked Sri Bhagavan: 'Meditation on God with form is inferior. Formless worship is not possible for me. What can I do?' Sri Bhagavan answered, 'Who asked you to inquire what is superior and inferior? By worship of form, one can gain arupa Sakshatkaram (experince of the formless).'
That purity of devotion, if sincere, and single pointed, will lead one to Reality is a certainty. A devotee who has supreme love for the Lord gains the experience of formless, nameless Brahman, even if he desires not liberation, for the Lord is but Grace. Hence He says, "The true vision is to know one's own truth and abide as That which is also the truth of the Supreme Being." This true vision, lit with the bright light of real Being, destroys the thought that we are bodies, until we become pure Awareness.
Of all the forms that can be worshipped, the highest and most sublime is the form of a Guru who is an Atma Jnani, who does not regard his body as apart from Atman. One who meditates on such a form will have his own form melted away. The true form of a Jnani is the vast expanse of Pure Consciousness, and his physical form is a mere appearance and his state is one of being stilled in Reality.
continued.....
Nagaraj,
I heard these anecdotes from a very reliable source-Sage TGN.
The Posts however are copied from the net,and indeed some of the translations in English done by little known lovers of Bharati are truly first class.
Prema Nandakumar,daughter of K R srinivasa Iyengar(Disciple of Sri Aurobindo)has brought out a translation of MahAkavi's poems in english.
Sage TGN in the course of his talks by way of quoting BhArati would recite these poems in an inimitable fashion that would greatly enhance the Spirit and beauty of these poems.
Namaskar.
Arunachala as Symbol:
(Mountain Path, Editorial - Apr. - June 2010):
Arunachala is the hub of the universe for those of us, who are devotees of Sri Bhagavan Ramana. We are as stars revolving around a light that our eyes can sense but not see. Through literature and our own experiences, we come to understand that Sri Bhagavan and Arunachala are one. Sri Bhagavan is visible representative who walked on this earth and guided us as much as by example as by His words, and His devotion to Arunachala is cardinal to our understanding of who He was. Arunachala is an indisputable physical presence that radiates a subtle spiritual energy. It rejuvenates us when we are in its presence but it is also, whatever our distance from it may be, a potent, living symbol which reminds us of our purpose in loyally following where Sri Bhagavan led. To remember Arunachala is to reflect on what is important in our lives. By some mysterious alchemy even the very thought of Arunachala has a transformative value that we cannot define because it operates below the surface of rational minds, but through unmistakable experience we come to recognize its deep healing power. Sri Bhagavan once said how fortunate we were in that, even if He were not here with us, physically, His guru Arunachala is always present.
On the physical plane (bhumiloka), Arunachala was a mountain of light in the original golden period, the Satya Yuga, when the truth was wholly accessible to all, and its summit was called the realm of truth, Satya loka. In this Kali Yuga, it has become solidified as rock. Arunachala is like glass, it is solid but translucent and with the eyes of light and hearts aflame, we can see through it. No wonder Sri Bhagavan called Arunachala 'father'; no wonder He yearned to go 'home'. Seeking Him out on His journey from Madurai, He left behind the boy, Venkataraman. His joy at arrival is impossible to describe. The myth, the symbol, had become a reality.
Myths are the contrivances by which we struggle to make our experience intelligible. The meaning of a myth is intuited rather than defined. It has a way of implying things that are difficult to state explicitly. The myth of Arunachala's creation is meant to inspire. It continues to live in the hearts of those who near this Hill not just as a collective memory but also as a living, dynamic presence. When we
contemplate Arunachala either from afar or at close quarters, we are performing a rite that reinforces our association with this magic Hill. We reinforce our sense of oneness by thinking of it. What we eat we become. What we think we become. What we identity with we become. There is the famous sloka from Siva Rahasyam cited in the Sanskrit work Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, "One gets liberation from darshan in Chidambaram, from taking birth in Tiruvarur, and undoubtedly, from dying in Kasi, but merely from thinking on Arunachala.(Tr. William Forbes).
We could say that Arunachala is a Yantra and our words are prayer or thought are mantras, either gross or subtle. Sri Bhagavan's Arunahcaka Akshara Mana Malai is an example. By repetition of this beautiful hymn we absorb the mood (bhava) in which Sri Bhagavan composed it and thereby come closer in our relationship with this mighty spiritual force. We are fixing Arunachala in our hearts by this ritual gesture. We engage in 'correspondence', and enact Sri Bhagavan's absorption in Arunachala and if our hearts are in the right place we are bound together in harmony.
continued.....
Arunachala As Symbol:
continues.....
If we listen carefully, Arunachala hums like a powerful dynamo in the silence of the heart, but really what words, what symbol, can encapsulate it? When we contemplate Arunachala do we think of it as a physical presence in a definite location or are we thinking of the transcendental Arunachala as it actually is, devoid of all concepts of time and space? In other words, is Arunachala the range of rocks situated at Tiruvannamalai or is it a transcendental divine principle that has no form?
If it is just a pile of rocks then, with all due respects, we are barking mad and if it is a divine principle then how do our tiny minds conceive the immensity of its glory? Either way we appear defeated.
Consider for a moment, money. Paper with pictures and writing on it or pieces of metal are exchanged so that we may conveniently buy the essentials required to live. We all need money, without it we could not survive. Yet this object is an abstraction and has no intrinsic value. We are not such fools to think that it in itself it is valuable; it is what it can do for us, which is important.
We sing the praises of Arunachala and gaze on it with a mixture of awe and bafflement. Our words and feelings are our currency, by themselves they are nothing, but deliberately directed at the target of our devotion, we 'buy' a sense of oneness. We gather our affections like flowers and use them to garland the Hill.
The eloquent singularity of Arunachala captures us and takes us to another level of consciousness. It is not what we can possess it, but to the contrary, it possesses us. It frees us from the insistent and ultimately insane desire to control our world. Like young Venkataraman, we too, will be astonished.
It has been described as a boundless pillar of light, an infinite sattvic energy. We should see beyond the mythological symbol to what it indicates. It is a living portal by which we transcend the false identification with name and form. The rocks of Arunachala
are charged with meaning and power. Of themselves, they cannot contribute to our awareness unless WE SEE THROUGH THEM AS SYMBOLS.
The holy hill, vibrating with an indescribable energy has awed saints for millennia. For those who have been graciously granted a vision of Arunachala Siva they are reduced in their songs, to employing words as exclamations. It would be foolish to expect them to directly share that experience as it is unique and unequivocal. The best the visionary can say is to compare it with this or that and leave us floundering with second hand images. This is the negative aspect of the symbol. Either from superficial reasoning or false hope
we read or listen to these second hand descriptions and pass around this currency of expression to reassure ourselves that we have understood. We have not. All we have done is appease our desire for certainty with a counterfeit of words. We have mistaken the symbol for the 'thing' in itself.
continued......
Arunachala As Symbol:
continues.....
Likewise, we should be scrupulous not to debase the value of our devotion by trading it for some kind of approval. There is the false gold of conceit and the shallow coinage of self satisfaction that we are tempted to share with others who are willing to buy our fallacious views. This is all because we took the symbol for the 'thing' in itself.
If we are to extend the metaphor we also are symbols. Our thoughts and emotions are interchangeble with those of other people with some proclivities, otherwise how could we communicate? We clothe our ideas in words and as we have seen, words are symbols. If we ourselves are not 'symbols', then what we are?
Sri Bhagavan composed a verse on the significance of Arunachla - Deepa darsana tattvam. 'The sudden rise of the blazing column of Annamalai in front of Brahma and Vishnu and their distress at not being able to know that it is symbolic of the sphurana of the heart's center as the real Self of the intellect and the ego.
We see here that the Puranic story is a mirror of the sphurana, the perpetual surge of being, arising from our real Self. The story of Brahma and Vishnu is important to us as a symbolic enactment of our individual quest. Like the recounting of the life stories of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna, which has the audience ritually participating as witnesses, we too repeat our shared story publicly at Kartikai Deepam when the holy flame is lit to signify - 'Getting rid of the 'I am the body' idea and merging into the heart to realize the Self as non dual Being.
On the special day each year, we catch a glimpse of a huge fire blazing on top of Arunachala. For a moment the almost painful momentum of tension generated during the previous nine days is released and the cumulative anticipation fulfilled. We forget our attachment to our body and mind in the upsurge of excitement so new and fresh. For a magical moment the holy Hill and the vast attendant crowd are one. All is Light and the air is filled with joy.
And what of those of us who cannot be at Arunachala, do we somehow miss out on this grace? It is often remarked by those who cannot stay at Arunachala for any length of time, how lucky are those who can reside permanently at the foot of the Hill. This is not necessarily true as Sri Bhagavan pointed out. There are many who can be here for decades and yet not taste that divine elixir to the extent that their lives are revolutionized. And there are those who defy or fear their destiny in the world, bend their lives out of shape at their peril. There is also, as if by accident, the passing pilgrim who is burnt by the sun of Jnana. In Sri Bhagavan's court, we are wherever in this wide world, we should be. Divine wisdom locates us where we can best learn. We do not know when we are ready and we leave it in the higher hands to guide us.
The greatness and beauty of Arunachala is that it is ever available, if we would but stop the mind's chatter for a moment and gaze in still, silent awe. We are one with Arunachala just as was Sri Bhagavan, the difference is that Sri Bhagavan was conscious of His identity and we are not. Let us lift the veil and enter the Light.
concluded.
Sarva Jnanottaram - Anma
Sakshatkara Prakaranam:
Today is Thursday. In another few minutes, Tamizh parayna will start in the Samadhi Hall in the Asramam. Today the song of Sarva Jnanaottaram will be chanted along with some other songs.
Verse 13:
anniyayanAm sivan anniyanAne ennum
bhinna bhavathaip peyarthiduka -
anna sivan
yAvan yAne ennum atthuithamAhum ip
bhavanaiye enRum pazhagu.
Uproot from the mind and totally discard by all means, the attitude of 'otherness' (or the perception of distinction) that thinks that the Supreme Siva is someone else other than me and I am someone other than Siva. Practice unceasingly the non dual attitude of oneness devoid of distinction and otherness that asserts 'I am indeed none other than Siva.'
The Sivaswarupa that permeate and shines everywhere -- and never away from anything even for a moment -- pulsates within the Jiva as his own Self with the sphurana 'I-I', that is most directly experienced ever. To look upon Sivaswarupa that shines as his very Self as something other than himself and to think that he, as distinct from Him, exists as a separate entity is an attitude, divisive and fragemented. It should be uprooted and discarded (peyarthiduka) is the exhortation, in this verse.
******
Friends,
An excerpt from 'The Letters from Sri Ramanasramam':
19-3-1950 was the Lunar New Year’s Day. From the time
I had come here, it had been usual for me to offer to Bhagavan
for his personal wear a khaddar towel and a kowpeenam and
arrange for bhiksha in the Ashram that day. As I did not like to
give it up this year, I took with me a towel and kowpeenam in the
evening at about 7 o’clock of 18-3-1950, went into that small
room accompanied by our postmaster, Raja Iyer. Bhagavan
stared at me. I quietly placed the clothes on the table and said
the next day was the Ugadi (New Year’s Day). Bhagavan started
at that and said, “Is the Ugadi come? Is the Vikruti (the name
of the new year) come?” There was something strange and
perplexing in that voice. And I cannot explain why, but it seemed
to forebode something disastrous and it was to me heartrending.
The two attendants stood aghast. I too could say
nothing and so mumbled, “I felt it would be inauspicious if
I gave up my usual practice.” Bhagavan said, “Oh! What is
there in that?” and looking at one of the attendants by name
Anjaneyalu who was by his side, he said, “Keep those clothes
carefully. Nagamma has brought them. Tomorrow it is Ugadi,
it seems.” So saying, in a very gentle manner he gave us leave
to go. As the attendants were removing the clothes, I went near
the couch and asked Bhagavan, “How is the arm?” Bhagavan
said, “What shall I say how it is?” I told Bhagavan, “You must
somehow cure yourself.” Bhagavan replied, “Ahem. I cannot
say anything now.” I pleaded with great humility, “How could
you say that, Bhagavan?” Perhaps he felt that my hopes would
not go unless he told me the bare truth and so looking at me
with compassion, he said, “Ahem. Cure? What cure?” I said,
“Ayyo! Will it not be cured?” Bhagavan replied, “Ahem. Cure?
What cure? How could there be any cure now?” The previous
assurance that there was nothing to worry about and nothing
would happen — all of them disappeared at that moment and
when I heard those words, my whole body shook with fear. My
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 662
eyes filled with tears and my voice got choked. I wanted to ask
about our fate for the future and so was trying to gather some
composure of mind and open my lips when someone from the
office came in hurriedly on some urgent work. I was startled by
that noise and came out without asking what I wanted to ask
and slowly retraced my steps to my hut.
continued...
The Letters from Sri Ramanasramam continued...
The next morning
I thought of approaching Bhagavan again and ask for his final
message, but could not get an opportunity. The resonant voice
of Bhagavan that said, “Is the Ugadi come?” appeared to me to
say, “All is over.” With that Ugadi the great privilege I had all
these years of hearing and enjoying the nectar of Bhagavan’s
voice ended.
On the evening of 14-4-1950, I went at 6-30 and stood
in the queue arranged for an orderly darshan of Bhagavan
and when I got up on the raised mound opposite the door
of the room where Bhagavan was sitting, and stood there
for a while with my sight concentrated on him and prayed
to him mentally, “Oh Prabho! Won’t you for once radiate on
me your compassionate look?” Bhagavan’s eyes slowly began
to open and from those eyes, a mild and compassionate look
came on me. That was the last time I had the great fortune
of his compassionate look.
At 8-47 that night, Sri Ramana, the embodiment of light
and enlightenment, left his mortal coil.
When the mortal body of Gurudev, who was at once my
mother, father, Guru and God and who has protected me all
these years, ceased to be the abode of that great soul, I remained
still as a statue, drowned in inexpressible grief and sorrow.
The writing of these letters was begun on 21-11-1945
and continued uninterrupted all these days through the grace
of Bhagavan, and with the end of the Avatar of Bhagavan,
I am giving up the writing of these letters."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomorrow is ugAdi.Like Suri NAgamma,devotees would like to offer kowpeenam to Sri Bhagavan-yes,the codpiece of mind!
Namaskar.
Friends,
An Excerpt from MahAkavi Bharati's epic poem 'pAnchAli sabatham'(Draupadi's vow):
நானெனும் ஆணவந் தள்ளலும்-இந்த
ஞாலத்தைத் தானெனக் கொள்ளலும்-பர
மோன நிலையின் நடத்தலும்-ஒரு
மூவகைக் காலங் கடத்தலும்-நடு
வான கருமங்கள் செய்தலும்-உயிர்
யாவிற்கும் நல்லருள் பெய்தலும்-பிறர்
ஊனைச் சிதைத்திடும் போதினும்-தனது
உள்ளம் அருளின் நெகுதலும், 82
'ஆயிரங் கால முயற்சியால்-பெற
லாவர் இப்பேறுகள் ஞானியர்;-இவை
தாயின் வயிற்றில் பிறந்தன்றே-தமைச்
சார்ந்து விளங்கப் பெறுவரேல்,-இந்த
மாயிரு ஞாலம் அவர்தமைத்-தெய்வ
மாண்புடை யாரென்று போற்றுங்காண்!
Discarding the Ego
that arises as ‘I’ and ‘Mine’,
Holding the entire world
to be their own in form,
Ever abiding in
supreme quietude,
and thereby transcending
the triple facets of Time,
Attending to their tasks
in total dispassion,
Showering Grace upon
all living beings,
And melting in Compassion
even for tormentors
who proceed to slice and silver
their throbbing flesh and bones
- These Blessings could be attained
by Sages through endeavour
extending to over
a thousand long years.
But if the Blessings are seen
to reside in certain souls
at the very point
they are born of their mothers,
they would be extolled
by the wide world
as being in possession of
Divine Excellence…
(Translation-TGN)
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru nAraiyur - 608 303:
This temple can be reached from Chidambaram by bus. This is the birth place of divine child Nambi AndAr Nambi, who came after Sundaramurti and collected all TirumuRai songs and arranged them into canons. This divine child was
a great devotee of Vinayaka in the town called PoLLA PiLLaiyAr. PoLLa
means that sculpture which was not
sculpted by any sculptor, i.e. came on its own, Swayambu. The child used to go with his father to offer food offerings to this Vinayaka. One day, when the father was not in town, the mother asked him to go and offer the food, Naivedyam. The child believed that Vinayaka would eat the food and Vinayaka ate the food. It was a surprise to the parents. Next day, when the father went sending the son in advance to offer food to Vinayaka and was hiding himself behind a pillar, he found Vinayaka actually eating the food, extending His trunk and he was astonished! Nambi AndAr Nambi made a long poem giving the list of 63 Saiva Saints called Tiru
ThoNada thohai. On the basis of Sundarar's list and this poem, Sekkizhar composed Periya Puranam.
Narai means a stork. One stork also prayed to Siva here and hence the name Naraiyur.
Siva is called Soundareswarar. Uma is called Tripura Sundari. The holy waters (tirtham) are a tank called Karunya Tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is PunnAga tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 33 of his verses, and Tiru Navukkarasar in 20 of his verses.
Vinayaka (PoLLa PiLLaiyar) is quite famous in this temple and devotees assemble in large numbers to pray to Him on Sankatahar Chaturthi days.
*****
Nandana Yugadi:
Today is the New Year Day of Nandana Year, as per lunar calendar. The new year starts today for Telugus and Kannadigas, as per their lunar calendar. The year is called Nandana. The Tamizh and Malayalam year starts as per solar calendar sometime next month, i.e. April.
Today in the Asramam there will be a festival crowd. Many Andhrites would have swarmed to the
Asramam to celebrate this day in the presence of Sri Bhagavan. There will be special pujas for Sri Ramaneswara Maha Lingam and Sri Matrubhuteswara Lingam.
The people from Andhra do not mind the hot summer of Tiruvannamalai for they are used to such hot weather in Ongole, Vijayawada, Nellore and Kavali.
The Telugu devotees of Sri Bhagavan started from Kavyakanta, Suri Nagamma and others. Even today in the Asramam, there are many Telugu gentlemen working in the book depot and in the kitchen. Sri Bhagavan used to speak to Suri Nagamma and other such Telugu devotees in their
own Mother Tongue!
The Letters from Sri Ramanasramam were written originally in
Telugu and later translated in English and Tamizh. Most of Sri Asramam's publications are available in Telugu too.
Wish all the Telugu and Kannada members of the blog a very happy Ugadi!
********
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 8:
continues....
It is in order to enable one to eventually get to the Absolute that the path of theism has been designed. The omnipresent nameless and formless reality is assigned name and form. This has inevitably to be so because we imagine ourselves to be possessed of a name and form. So long as we are limited, our conceptions of the ultimate reality are also bound to be limited. So long as we think we are persons, we have to ascribe personality to God. So long as we are endowed with characteristics, we must need attribute characteristics to the Deity. Only we believe that the all-good God cannot be the home of despicable qualities (heyaguna). All His attributes are auspicious; there is no trace of evil in Him. That is why He is worshipful, the lord worthy of veneration.
There are two types of theism, one which is fanatical and the other which seeks to be all-inclusive, corresponding to what philosophers call the stages of national religion and universal religion. The fanatical type of theism urges that its conception of god alone is true, and that the other faiths are false. Each of the proselytizing religions believes that salvation lies through it alone. The slogan for the protagonists of conversion is: Either come to our fold or be damned. Some followers of certain Hindu cults, it is true, have held fanatical views. The rivalry especially of between the Saivas and the Vaishnavites is classical. And, in the medieval times, there were clashes among Jainism, Buddhism and the cults of Siva and Vishnu. But in spite of such occasional manifestations of discord and strife, Hinduism, on the whole, has stood for spiritual peace. It is the type of universal theism that is more in accord with its spirit. Probably the earliest declaration on record of universalism in faith is the mantra of the Rg Veda which says:
ekam sad viprA bahudhA vadanti
agnim yamam mAtrisvAnam Ahuh |
Reality is One, though Sages call it variously Agni, Yama, and MAtarisvan.
continues......
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse *:
continues...
In two well known verses in the Gita, Sri Krishna proclaims the character of freedom in worship:
yo yo yAm Yam tanum bhaktah
sraddhayAchitum icchati |
tasya tasyAchalam sraddhAm tAm eva
vidadhAmy aham || (vii. 21)
ye yathA mAm prapadyante tAms
tathaiva
bhajAmy aham |
mama varmAnuvartante manusyAh
pArtha sarvasAh || (iv. 11)
'Whatever be the form of God a devotee desires to worship with faith, I confirm him even in that unshakable faith. Whatever be the path in which people seek Me, even so I do bless them. It is My path, O Arjuna, that people pursue in all manner of ways.'
In one of the many similes given Sri Ramakrishna the religions are compared to the ghats that lead to the Ganga. The unique mission which he came to fulfill was to show to a skeptical world that the various faiths were but ways to realize the same Truth. Truth does not become different when you change the name. Water is water whether you call it pani or jala. If only the theologians cared for the content of their respective revelations without laying too much stress on the accidental features of these revelations, they would know that at the basis of the religions, there is One Religion. All the books declare that God is omnipresent, that He is the source of the world and its goal as well. What matters, then, if He be named Iswara or Allah? And so, Sri Bhagavan says in the present verse
that under whatever name and form the omnipresent nameless and formless Reality is worshipped, that is a door to realization.
But mark, the Sage declares that that is ONLY a door to realization! So long as there is difference - even the least - there is not the plenary realization. One has to transcend even the worshipper- worshipped relation. The highest reality is not to be characterized as this or that. It is not a God standing over against us. It is not the Other holding sway in some far off region. It is not this that is worshipped here, says the Upanishad. Brahman is not that which is apprehended by the sense organs and the mind; it is that which impels these to function. He who thinks, 'I am different, Brahman is different' does not know. He who says that he 'sees' God does not truly 'see'. As the BrhdAranyaka puts it: Where is duality, as it were, there one sees another, one smells another, one tastes another, one speaks to another, one hears another, one thinks of another, one touches another, one understands another. Where, however, everything has become just one's own self, then whereby and whom would one see, whereby and whom one would smell, whereby and whom would one taste, whereby and whom would one speak, whereby and whom would one hear,
whereby and whom would one think,
whereby and whom would one touch,
whereby and whom would one understand?
He by whom one understands all this, whereby would one understand Him? The Self is not this, it is not that, neti, neti. It is ungraspable, for it cannot be grasped, indestructible, for it cannot be destroyed, unsticking, for it does not stick, is unbound, does not tremble, is not injured. Lo, whereby would one understand the understander? (IV.V.14)
True understanding, then lies in realizing the truth of identity or non difference. As Sri Bhagavan says, one should understand one's own truth, in the truth of that true Reality, and be one with It, having been resolved into It. That is true seeing.
Verse 8 concluded.
Sri Bhagavan about 'travelling on conveyance, superimposing.'
Talks No. 607:
Sri Bhagavan said to Lady Batemman:
There is a fixed sate; sleep, dream and waking states are mere movements in it. They are like pictures moving on the screen in a cinema show.
......
Similarly, a person travels in a train and thinks that he moves. Really speaking he sits and reposes in his seat, and it is the train which is steaming fast. He however, superimposes the motion of the train on himself because has identified himself with the body. He says: I have passed one station, now another, yet another, and so on.
A little consideration will show that he sits unmoved and the stations run past him. But that does not prevent him from saying that he has traveled all the way, as if he exerted himself to move every foot of the way.
The Jnani is fully aware that the true state of Being remains fixed and stationary and that all actions go on around him. His nature does not change and his state is not affected the least. He looks on everything with unconcern and remains blissful himself.
.........
*******
Sri Bhagavan about 'traveling in conveyance, superimpsing'.
Talks No. 609:
Lady Bateman and others came to the Hall at about 3.30 pm. In a few minutes she asked in writing if one is nearer to Pure Consciousness in deep sleep than in the waking state.
Maharshi: The sleep, dream and waking states are mere phenomena appearing on the Self which is itself stationary and also a state of simple awareness. Can anyone remain away from the Self at any moment? This question can arise only if that were possible.
Devotee: Is it not often said that one is nearer Pure Consciousness in deep slumber than in the waking state?
Maharshi: The question may as well be: Am I nearer to myself in my sleep than in my waking state?
For the Self is Pure Consciousness.
No one can ever be away from the Self. The question is possible only if there is duality. But there is no duality in the state of Pure Consciousness.
.........
Maharshi: So there is a continuity in the sleep and the waking states. What is that continuity? It is only the state of Pure Being. There is a difference in the two states. What is the difference? The incidents, namely the body, the world and the objects appear in the waking state but they disappear in the sleep.
Devotee: But I am not aware in my sleep.
Maharshi: True, there is no awareness of the body or of the world. But you must exist in your sleep to say now, 'I was not aware in my sleep.' Who says so now? It is the wakeful person. The sleeper cannot say so. That is to say, that the individual who is now identifying the Self with the body, says that such awareness did not exist in sleep.
Because you identify yourself with the body, you see the world around you and say that the waking state is filled with beautiful and interesting things. The sleep state appears dull because you were not there as an individual and therefore these things were not. But what is the fact? There is the continuity of Being in all the three states, but no continuity of the individual and the objects.
Devotee: Yes.
............
Devotee: Relatively speaking, is not the sleep state nearer to Pure Consciousness than the waking state?
Maharshi: Yes, in this sense. When passing from sleep to waking the 'I' thought must start. The mind comes to play. Thoughts arise. And then the functions of the body come into operation. All these together make us say that we are awake. The absence of all this evolution is the characteristic of sleep and therefore it is nearer to Pure Consciousness, than the waking state.
.........
.........
Lady Bateman appreciated the discourse and thanked Sri Bhagavan. Later, she said that she would be leaving the next day.
Sri Bhagavan smiled and said: You do not leave one place for another. You are always stationary. The scenes go past you. Even from the ordinary point of view, you sit in your cabin and the ship sails but you do not move. We see a picture of a man running several miles rushing towards us, but the screen does not move. It is the picture that moves on and away.
..........
*********
Sri Bhagavan about 'traveling in conveyance, superimposing.'
Talks: No. 653:
..........
Devotee: Why do I feel unhappy when I am in Vellore and feel peace in Your Presence?
Maharshi: Can this feeling in this place be Bliss? When you leave the place you say you are unhappy. Therefore this peace is not permanent, nay it is mixed with unhappiness which is felt in another place. Therefore you cannot find Bliss in places and and in periods of time. It must be permanent in order that it may be useful. Such permanent being is yourself. Be the Self and that is Bliss. You are always That.
You say that you left Vellore, traveled in train, arrived in Tiruvannamalai. There it gets into another cart which brings the body here. Yet when you are asked, you say that you traveled all the way from Vellore. Your body remains where it was and all the places went past it.
Such ideas are due to the false identity which is so deep rooted.
............
............
******
Bhagavan telling Sub Registrar,
Narayana Iyer, about Ulladu Narpadu:
Narayana Iyer was a skeptic in the beginning, neither believing in God nor in the greatness of Sri Bhagavan. Later he became His great devotee. Oneday, he complained to Sri Bhagavan:
I am not able to any meditation. However much I try, I am not able to concentrate. What is the way out for me?
Sri Bhagavan said: Why do you worry? Is it not that Ulladu Narpadu is known to you in full by heart? Why not you chant the verses without break at all times. By this parayana, one day, the words become husk and the meaning/purport will become your experience!
Narayana Iyer did that throughout his life.
******
Today is Friday. The evening parayana, comprises of Sri Sankara's works, rendered in Tamizh by Sri Bhagavan, viz., 1) Sri Guru Stuti 2). Sri Hastamalakam 3) Sri Dakshinamurti Stotram and 4) Sri Anma Bodham.
Guru Stuti is one where Sri Sankara's disciples came as wandering minstrels and sing a song, when Sri Sankara was engaging in amorous pursuits, by taking a king's body, after hiding his body in a secret place. Sri Sankara had to do this since Mandanamisra's wife had asked him questions on karma sastra and he had to win over her only after enjoying kama. So he got into the body of King Amaruka who had departed just then and then with Amaruka's body he enjoyed the hundred queens and became fit for answering the questions of Mandanamisra's wife!
Since the time allotted by Mandanamisra's wife was was expiring, his disciples came reminded him for coming back with Sri Sankra's own body.
Guru Stuti: Verse 3:
porikaLAm parikal thammaip pulagaLil vilangum toda
aRivenu kasai yadittE ahamuhkak
kayiRRAl eertav
aRivari arijnana ettil anaittondrAp
piNit tiruppar
aRiporul kattita mAna-av vattu
vandrO needan
That to which, the wise who are well versed in firm Knowledge stable and tether the wild horses of the unruly senses that gallop towards sense objects, by whipping them with the scourge of discimination, making them realize the defects in the experiences of sense objects and pull them inward with the rope of enquiry, -- that Content Beyond which transcends all knowable objects, -- that Atman, indeed, art thou not?
aRivenum kasai yadittu - one should with the whip of discrimination, lash at the senses.
then, ahamuka kayiRRAl eertu - those wild unbridled horses are reined in and pulled inward with the rope of Self inquiy.
Sri Bhagavan has said: A Guru will push you inside. If you are successful, then Atma within Itself
would pull you inward and make your mind merge with It.
*****
R.Subramanian,
"when Sri Sankara was engaging in amorous pursuits, by taking a king's body, "
There are these tales in Sri Sankara's life and even granting that these tales are true-It cannot be said that Sri sankara engaged in amorous pursuit.It is said that he gained this experience through the King(as a Proxy)-It is believed that a Yogi can transfer a portion of his Life energy into another's body-Like Tirumoolar did-and through this gain 'first hand' experience as it is understood in common parlance.A Jnani like Sri Sankara is a Sarvajna and definitely 'all experiences' are understood by such a one.Yet,such a knowledge cannot be brought into play as a cop out for ducking the issue in the debate.
I am sure you understand this,yet thought that it will not be appropriate to say that Sri Sankara was engaging in amorous pursuits.
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru mazhapAdi - 621 851.
One can reach this temple either from Tiruchirapalli or from Thanjavur. When a sage brought a Siva Linga from Brahmaloka and installed here, Brahma came to remove that Linga. The Linga could not not removed. Hence Siva is called Vajrasthamba Nathar. (a diamond pillar, hard.) Uma is called Azhagamma. The holy waters (tirtham) are river KoLLidam, where excess water was diverted to make another river. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Palm Tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 33 of his verses, Tiru Navukkarasar in 17 of his verses and Sundaramurti in 10 of his verses.
Vishnu and Indra are said to have prayed to this Siva. Nandi (the Bull, vehicle) got married to SwayasAmbika Devi in this place. This Nandi marriage is celebrated on the suklapaksha (waxing moon) Punarvasu star day in the month of Phalguni, (March-April).
There are two stone images of Sri Dakshinamurti in the temple. In one He is keeping Muyalaka (demon, Apasmara) under His feet. There is also a stone image of Somaskandar - Siva with Uma and Skanda, their son.
The verse of Sundaramurti, where he calls Siva as the ruby of MazhapAdi - mazhapAdiyul mANikkame.. is quite popular.
*******
Dear Ravi,
I agree with you. There are many tales in Sri Sankara's life, which are believed to be untrue. Nochur Venkataraman says that there are more than 20 Sri Sankara Vijayams by various authors. In each, some stories are not there. For example, the Maneesha Panchakam story, where Siva comes as a Chandala with dogs, and Sri Sankara asks him to move away, is not there in many versions. So also this story. I am not sure whether Sankara Vijayam of Sri Ramakrisha Math contains this, though I have got that book.
Subramanian. R
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Mohammed Hafiz
Syed:
Talks No. 123:
Dr. Mohammed Hafiz Syed, a Muslim Professor of Persian and Urdu, in the University of Allahabad, asked: 'What is the purpose of this external manifestation?'
Maharshi: This manifestation had induced your question.
Devotee: True. I am covered by Maya. How to be free from it?
Maharshi: Who is covered by Maya? Who wants to be free?
Devotee: Master, being asked 'Who?' I know that it is ignorant me, composed of the senses, mind and body. I tried this enquiry, 'Who am I?' after reading Paul Brunton's book. Three or four times, I was feeling elated and the elation lasted sometime and then faded away. How to be established in 'I'? Please give me the clue and help me.
Maharshi: That which appears anew must also disappear in due course.
Devotee: Please tell me the method of reaching the eternal Truth.
Maharshi: You are That. Can you ever remain apart from the Self? To be yourself requires no effort since you are always That.
*******
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Syed:
Talks No. 126:
Dr. Syed asked again: 'Should anyone desirous of spiritual progress take to action or renunciation (pravritti marga or nivritti marga)?'
Maharshi: Do you go out of the Self? What is meant by giving up?
An American Engineer asked about satsangha.
Maharshi: Sat is within us.
Devotee: In the book 'Who am I?' you have said the Heart is the seat of the mind. Is it so?
Maharshi: The mind is Atman.
Devotee: Is it Atman itself or its projection?
Maharshi: The same.
Devotee: The Westerners look on the mind as the highest principle, whereas the Easterners think the contrary? Why?
Maharshi: Where psychology ends, there philosophy begins. This is experience. The mind is born. We see it. Even without the mind we exist. There is everyone's experience to prove it.
Devotee: In deep sleep, I do not seem to exist.
Maharshi: You say so when awake. It is the mind which speaks now. You exist in deep sleep beyond mind.
Devotee: Western philosophy admits the Higher Self as influencing the mind.
No reply from Maharshi.
******
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Mohammed Hafiz Syed:
Talks No. 125:
The Muslim Professor asked: When I am here my mind is sattvic; as soon as I turn my back on this, my mind hankers after so many objects.
Maharshi: Are the objects different from you? There can be no objects without the subject.
Devotee: And how shall I know it?
Maharshi: Being That, what do you want to know? Are there two selves for the one to know the other?
Devotee: Again, I repeat, Sir, how to know the Truth of all this and experience the same?
Maharshi: There is no gaining of anything new. All that is required is to rid the Self of ignorance. This ignorance is the identification of the Self with the non-Self.
Devotee: Yes. Still I do not understand. I must have your help. Everyone here is waiting on your for your Grace. You yourself must have sought the help of a Guru or of God. Extend that Grace to others now and save me.
Before I came here I desired to see you very much. But somehow I could not find an opportunity to do so. In Bangalore, I made up my mind to return to my place. I met Mr. Frydman and others who sent me here. You have dragged me here. My case is like Paul Brunton's in Bombay, when he was dragged here having cancelled his passage home.
I hesitated first on arrival. I wondered if I would be permitted to approach you and converse with you. My doubts were soon set at rest. I find that all are equal here. You have established an equality among all. I dined with you and others. If I should say so to my people in U.P. they would not believe it. The Brahmins would not drink water with me, nor chew pan with me. But here you have taken me and others like me in your fold. Though Gandhi is striving hard he cannot bring about such a state of affairs in the country. I am very happy in your presence.
I regard you as God. I consider Sri Krishna to be true God because He has said: 'Whomsoever one may worship, the worshipper worships me only and I save him.' When all others have said, 'Salvation is through me (meaning himself) only,' Sri Krishna is so broad minded and has spoken like God. You observe the same kind of equality.
*****
When Is Enough Enough?
(Mountain Path, Editorial, Jan. - Mar. 2010)
Once there was a sorcerer who had a callow apprentice. Before leaving his house, the sorcerer left instruction with the apprentice that he should clean it meticulously. The apprentice was smart but lazy and after laboriously sweeping for some time he became bored. He had an idea. There was a magic broom in the house belonging to the master who had left strict instructions with the student never to touch it without his permission. The broom responded to a magic incantation and would do whatever was requested. Now, the apprentice had heard the master chant the incantation to start the broom on new task but he had never heard him stop it. But that didn't bother the eager apprentice who took the broom in his hand and chanted. The broom jumped to attention and the apprentice told it to clean the floor by bringing buckets of water into the house. This the broom did with alacrity. But then, the broom began to fill the house with water from the well and try as he might, the desperate apprentice could not stop the process. The master returned and chanted the magic words commanding it to cease. The apprentice was mortified.
We are the apprentice. With insufficient knowledge we start something that soon overwhelms us.
It is a cliche that we are faced today with a world of abundance.It is the nature of modern life that we are taken up with ever increasing tasks, responsibilities and acquisitions. There never seems to be enough time in the day to do all that we want or are required to do. The ubiquitous mobile phone is a case in point where it is no longer possible to disappear and be alone. It is increasingly evident that we have become slaves to our own desires and those of others. It has reached a point where even if we do have free time and the space just to breathe, our mind, so attuned to doing, immediately thinks of another task to perform. Indeed we tend to feel guilty if we are not working at full stretch constantly. Will there ever be a moment when we have sufficient material objects to make us feel completely secure, so that we may focus our time, energy and attention on our inner being? When is enough enough? Is there a moment in time, when we can rise above it all and say, 'no more'?
Like the sorcerer's apprentice we are in a position to play with knowledge because it is no longer hard to come by. And yet...and yet...what we all recognize it to be self evidently true we do not find a satisfactory way to deal with it. If we find ourselves with too much of something, be it freedom or knowledge, we go looking for even more to resolve it -- more study, more exotic clothes, more searching for gurus. Of course, we have to search for perfection, but what happens when we find it? Are we by then so conditioned to searching that we don't recognize perfection when it happens to us. An egg is a perfect shape, what would happen if one tried to add on to it?
continued.....
Sri Ramana Stuti Panchkam:
Today in Saturday. In the evening at about 6.30 pm. Tamizh Parayna would commence and would go up to 7.10 pm. in the Asramam. Today is the Parayana of Sri Ramana Stuti Panchakam. This is the only work other than Sri Bhagavan's own works, in Tamizh, that is sung in the evening Tamizh parayana, in a week. Sunday is allocated for Sanskrit Parayana.
Sri Satymanagalam Venkatarama Iyer says in Sri Ramana Sadguru song, the it is only Sri Bhagavna, who should rule over His ego and also use His sword of Jnana to smite away the pride and arrogance which are nothing but from ego.
In Verse 21 he says:
This ego falls operates through my five senses, and does all terrible things. This ego again and again falls in to the senses and grimaces. Please call this ego ghost and rule over it, (so that it will not wag its tail once again).
In Verse 22 he says:
This pride and arrogance of mine is pervasive in my whole body. Please use your sword of Jnana and smite this demon, O Pure Effulgent (Ramana)!
21. adAtha seiykai aLikkum indiya
vanjanai poRi vAyilil
vidAthu veezhnthu viLikkum en
manap
peyai va vena ALuvA.
22. anga meRi ahankarithidum
ANavap padu pAviyai
thunga Jnana vAL koNdu sAduveer
thoomaNich chudar Ahineer!
******
Friends,
The Tales and parables of Sri Ramakrishna are well known-entertaining and often humorous as these are,they are most instructive help resolve fundamental questions and doubts that seekers encounter.The beauty is that even an average person can get the import.
One such tale is that of mAhut nArAyana.Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Let me tell you a story. In a forest there lived a holy man who had many disciples. One
day he taught them to see God in all beings and, knowing this, to bow low before them all.
A disciple went to the forest to gather wood for the sacrificial fire. Suddenly he heard an
outcry: 'Get out of the way! A mad elephant is coming!' All but the disciple of the holy man
took to their heels. He reasoned that the elephant was also God in another form. Then why
should he run away from it? He stood still, bowed before the animal, and began to sing its
praises. The mahut of the elephant was shouting: 'Run away! Run away!' But the disciple
didn't move. The animal seized him with its trunk, cast him to one side, and went on its
way. Hurt and bruised, the disciple lay unconscious on the ground. Hearing what had
happened, his teacher and his brother disciples came to him and carried him to the
hermitage. With the help of some medicine he soon regained consciousness. Someone
asked him, 'You knew the elephant was coming - why didn't you leave the place?' 'But', he
said, 'our teacher has told us that God Himself has taken all these forms, of animals as well
as men. Therefore, thinking it was only the elephant God that was coming, I didn't run
away.' At this the teacher said: 'Yes, my child, it is true that the elephant God was coming;
but the mahut God forbade you to stay there. Since all are manifestations of God, why
didn't you trust the mahut's words? You should have heeded the words of the mahut God.'
(Laughter)
This settles the discussion on Free-will and Destiny that often takes the form of fatalism,reconciling them in a wonderful way.
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru pazhuvoor - 621 707
This semi urban town is now called Keezha Pazhuvoor. It is on the bus route from Tiruchiarapalli to Ariyalur. One can also go from Thanjavur, by bus. It is a nicely built temple with strong stones, karungal. Parasurama is said to have prayed to Siva for removing his sin of killing his mother. There is a shrine for Parasurama just outside the temple. It is interesting to note that in this
Tamizh Nadu temple, the priests are traditionally Nambudri Brahmins, from Kerala. Even today only Nambudri Brahmins are doing pujas etc., to Siva.
Siva is called Vadamoola Nathar. Uma is called Arundhava Nayaki, one who did rare penance. The holy waters (tirtham) are river KoLLidam and also a tank called Brahma Tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is Banyan Tree. Tiru Jnana Sambandha has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses. In one song he says: andhanargaLAna malaiyALar avar ethum... thus indicating only Kerala Nambudri Brahmins are praying and doing pujas as priests in this temple!
*****
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Syed:
Talks No. 262:
Dr. Syed, a Muslim Professor, is now here. A skeptic friend of his had confronted him with the question: 'What miracle does your Maharshi work?' He had replied that the ordinary people being no better than animals are made men and that we being only His children are endowed with strength by Maharshi. He desired to know if he was right in replying to him. "Refreshing Peace within is the highest miracle. Maharshi possesses it".
"What is that to us?" the other man asked. I replied: "The same Peace is bestowed on all visitors to be shared by them. Mr. Brunton has mentioned it in his book. Everyone feels it every day in Maharshi's presence."
The whole conversation was mentioned to Sri Bhagavan with the following addition.
Parasurama has said that he felt some refreshing peace when he met Samvritta on the way. So he made him out to be a great saint. Is not such peace the sole criterion of a Mahatma's Presence? Is there anything else?
Sri Bhagavan said: A Madhva saint Tattuvarayar had composed a bharani on his master Swarupananda. Pandits objected to the composition, saying that it was reserved to such as have killed more than a thousand elephants in battle, whereas Swarupananda was an idle man sitting somewhere unknown to people and he did not deserve that panegyric. Tattuvarayar asked them all to assemble before his master so that they might see for themselves if he could stay one thousand elephants at a time. They did so. As soon as they appeared they were stuck dumb and remained in beatific peace for a few days without the least movement. When they regained their senses, they saluted both the master and the disciple, saying that they were more than satisfied. Swarupananda excelled the warriors in that he could subdue the egos, which is a much more formidable task than slaying a thousand elephants.
Maharshi said that the moral was clear. Peace is the sole criterion of a Mahatma's Presence.
*******
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Syed:
Talks No. 263:
Dr. Syed: Sri Bhagavan says that the Heart is the Self. Psychology has it that malice, envy, jealousy, and all passions have their seat in the heart. How are these two statements to be reconciled?
Maharshi: The whole cosmos is contained in one pinhole in the Heart. These passions are part of the cosmos. They are avidya (ignorance).
Devotee: How did avidya arise?
Maharshi: Avidya is like Maya (she who is not is maya - illusion. Similarly that which is not is ignorance. Therefore the question does not arise. Nevertheless, the question is asked. Then ask: 'Whose is the avidya? Avidya is ignorance. It implies subject and object. Become the subject and there will be no object.
Devotee: What is avidya?
Maharshi: Ignorance of the Self. Who is ignorant of the Self? The self must be ignorant of the Self. Are there two selves?
******
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Syed:
Talks No. 266:
The Muslim Professor asked: It is said that one should give up desire. But there are needs of the body which are irrepressible. What is to be done?
Maharshi: An aspirant must be equipped with three requisites. (1) Ichcha; (2) Bhakti and (3) Sraddha. Ichcha means satisfaction of bodily wants without attachment to the body (such as hunger and thirst and evacuation). Unless it is done, meditation cannot progress. Bhakti
and Sraddha are already known.
Devotee: There are two kinds of desires - the baser and the nobler. Is it our duty to transmute the baser one to the nobler?
Maharshi: Yes.
Devotee: Well, Bhagavan, you said, there are three requisites of which Ichcha is the satisfaction of natural wants without attachment to the body, etc., I take food three or four times a day and attend to bodily wants so much that I am oppressed by the body. Is there a state when I should be disembodied so that I might be free from the scourge of bodily wants?
Maharshi: It is the attachments (ragha and dwesha) which are injurious. The actin is not bad in itself. There is no harm in eating three or four times. But do not say, 'I want this kind of food and not that kind', and so on.
Moreover you take those meals in twelve hours of wakeful state where you are not eating in the hours of sleep. Does sleep lead you to mukti? It is wrong to suppose that simple inactivity leads one to mukti.
Devotee: There are said to be sadeha mukti (liberated in body) and videha mukti (liberated without body).
Maharshi: There is no liberation, and where are muktas?
Devotee: Does no Hindu sastras speak of Mukti?
Maharshi: Mukti is synonymous with the Self. Jiva mukti (liberation while alive) and Videha mukti (liberation after the body falls) are all for the ignorant. The Jnani is not conscious of Mukti or bandha (bondage) Bondage, liberation and orders of mukti are all said for an ajnani in order that ignorance might be shaken off. There is only Mukti and nothing else.
..........
*******
When Is Enough Enough?
(Mountain Path, editorial, Jan. - Mar. 2010)
continues....
There are moments of perfection which, if we recognize and appreciate, are keys. When we encounter the true guru who can guide us we know immediately in our heart that yes, this is it. We need not add to this, instead we remember and focus our attention on that perfection. It is a seed which has its own dynamic. We cannot improve it but rather allow it to unfold at is own pace in our heart. Like a small delicate flame we tend to it and protect it from the vagaries of our restless mind. We nourish it with our quiet attention. Unlike the material world it is not a question of getting more of it -- it is miraculously complete within itself.
How do we sustain our attention on that which is spiritually precious? We should be aware of the difference between the logic of the material and the spiritual world.
In the gross material world, every moment requires a response and whether we respond consciously or not is our choice to make. We make decisions for personal gains, either gross and self evident, regarding money, or subtle, concerning power. Our decisions can also be altruistic, such as engaging with a noble cause. If we can rise above the pressure for a moment, by not identifying with the energy at work in us and the world, we may be able to see that the forces of destiny carry us along like passengers on an unstoppable train. Sri Bhagavan taught that though we think we have free will, actually the time table of our journey has already been decided and is in inexorable motion. If all is decided then why make any decision? It is a question of clarity. Our mind is an instrument of understanding. If we are caught up in the rush of events then we cannot develop the clearness of mind not to be affected by the inevitable frustration and sorrow of desire denied. We do have choice, whether to identify our feelings or not. But for that ability to develop we should first realize that there is no0 end to the gratification of desires.
How can we reach the point where we realize this and learn to live in that moment, free from the conflict of desire and fear? We can do so by constantly posing this question in the form of Who am I? We develop the capacity to consciously stop and be aware of the flow of thoughts, and not be an unconscious victim of circumstances. We may be on the train but we are alert. The other option suggested by Sri Bhagavan is that we can surrender, go to sleep and peacefully arrive at our destination. This appears to be the happiest option but surrender in fact means that we accept unreservedly whatever happens to us -- no complaints, no objections, complete acceptance of whatever happens. Is there anyone who can fulfill such a stringent condition?
continued.....
When Is Enough Enough?
continues.....
To return to the important question of sufficiency, enough is enough when it is complete.
Putting little bits together would take forever but when it it is whole then one cannot add to it. By surrendering we leave the security of our narrow views which are bolstered by narrow self esteem and open up to the possibility of something greater than ourselves. To see wholly requires an affirmation, an assent to a higher truth that governs our lives. We need to combine self inquiry and surrender because they are both necessary if we seek a higher principle that guides and explains our lives, though 'explain' is too small a concept for the vast mystery of life we behold. When we affirm by self inquiry that limitless sense of 'I am'; when we surrender to the moment and unreservedly accept what is happening now, we break the chains of a limited sense of who we are. There is no longer the question of gain or loss, for it is irrelevant.
Knowing that we have enough applies to spiritual teachings. At a certain stage it is no longer a question of acquisition of new knowledge but application. Knowledge is not Wisdom. What we gain from lectures and books is important but equally vital is the application of these teachings. It is useless to endlessly acquire information. The end consequence of such a path can be confusion, apathy, arrogance and dogmatism.
The turning point or rebirth can be an intellectual insight or more often, a grand affirmation of a gratuitous sublime experience that
cannot be rationalized or forgotten. Once the conscious decision has been reached we enter a new realm of logic whereby the way forward is not through acquisition but by letting go of all that which obscures the sense of wholeness. If we are to believe our guru Sri Ramana, then we already are That. What prevents us from being That is our sense of separation caused by the relentless demands generated by the mind to fulfill our desires. Right desires are the fulfillment of the necessities of life: food, clothing, shelter, instruments for work or whatever is indispensable and that includes food for the heart and mind. Unnecessary desire is that which we can do without. It is unnecessary if its lack does not damage our integrity.
continued.....
R.Subramanian,
Can you please translate 'Enough is enough' into a few simple sentences for our benefit.What is the editor saying?Is he saying-'Have Faith in the Guru.Follow the teachings of the Guru implicitly' or is there anything more to it?
Namaskar.
Friends,
The Parable of the Pearl Oyster,from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Parable of pearl oyster
"One should have faith in the holy name given by the guru and with it practise spiritual
discipline. It is said that the pearl oyster makes itself ready for the rain that falls when the
star Svati is in the ascendant. Taking a drop of that rain, it dives into the fathomless depths
of the ocean and remains there until the pearl is formed."
Namaskar.
When Is Enough Enough?:
continues....
Shunryu Suzuki Roshi, who established in the 1950s a Soto Zen Centre in San Fransisco, gave a lecture to his students:
'Buddha is always helping you. But usually we refuse Buddha's offer. For instance, sometimes you ask for something special. This means that you are refusing to accept the treasures you already have. You are like a pig. When I was young, as my father was very poor, he raised many pigs. I noticed that when I gave the pigs a bucket of food, they would eat it after I went away. As long as I was there, they wouldn't eat it, expecting me to give them more food. I had to be very careful. If I moved too quickly they would kick the bucket over. I think that is what you are doing. Just to cause yourself more problems, you seek for something. But there is no need for you to seek for anything. You have plenty, and you have just enough problems. This is a mysterious thing, you know, the mystery of life. We have just enough problems not too many or too few.'
How can we be whole or complete? It is both a leap of faith and a daily discipline of keeping the wandering mind fixed as much as possible on what is important. It is both surrender and a positive constant application of Self inquiry. We should not be bothered too much with thought or emotions. If we let them come and go, they will soon lose their importance. It is when we try to harness the mind to do what we 'want' that the trouble begins. Sri Ramakrishna said that to say over and over, 'Oh, I am a sinner' is of no help. It merely reinforces the negative vasnas which plague us. By denying them importance we lessen their influence on the way we perceive and behave. This is not easy. It requires the effort, for we deliberately starve them by focusing on the source of thought, the sense of 'I am'. We need not accumulate merit like a material possession for that only generates pride and avarice. A sattvic mind and its ineluctable benefits will follow naturally when we begin to let go the repetitive, negative thoughts.
And when is enough enough of this spiritual insight, so that we may say we have attained something and are now knowers or Jnanis? It is the wrong question; for we now have nothing to lose and nothing to gain. This is just the beginning of wisdom. What is necessary will come to us and what is unnecessary will leave us. What more could we ask for?
concluded.
Dear Ravi,
My understanding of enough is enough is only to avoid greed in anything. Be it food, reading books, material possessions, sleep, or even having having a cell phone. Moderation is the key. In material possessions moderation is essential so that one could turn the mind to spiritual truth and attainment of spiritual goal. Like Oliver Twist or that pig (quoted by the Zen teacher) one should not develop insatiable greed.
Jnana is ever there. What is causing obstruction is the lack of understanding to turn the mind from material possessions to spirituality.
As some saint poet said: "podum engira maname pon seyyum marunthu."
Subramanian. R
R.Subramanian,
Thanks very much.Yes,contentment,moderation and balance,are indeed key to spiritual living along with Faith,earnestness,discrimination and dispassion.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Subramaniam/Ravi:
["...Moderation is the key. In material possessions moderation is essential...Jnana is ever there. What is causing obstruction is the lack of understanding..."]
if the quest is present, then these things such as contentment or moderation shall appear in accordance with the needs of the seeker. on the other hand, actively trying to be contented or moderate typically doesn't work, for who is to do decide what is moderate & what isn't? one man's moderation may not suit another at all! is having ten thousand rupees more moderate than twenty thousand?? is sleeping under a ceiling fan more moderate than an air-cooler?? etc. one here runs a grave risk risk of applying 'measurement' in one's pursuit of cultivating contentment, and hence it's unlikely to be of any help. whenever one's mind is not craving/ regretting/ wanting etc. etc., at that moment one is contented, and such contentment comes out of whatever sAdhanA one does, isn't it? of course, as a general rule, the less possessions one has or wants to have, the better (the ideal is bhagavAn here!!) most modern day householders will be found severely wanting if strict yardsticks of moderation are applied :-))), so better not to harbour pet illusions of contentment! the need to have less ought to come naturally and it will keep changing from time to time in one's journey...
why assume 'jnAna to be ever-present'? bhagavAn says so and i appreciate the faith one may have in those words, but they can't be uttered with conviction unless one has realised the truth of that jnAna for oneself, isn't it? faith is nice but that should go hand in hand with the understanding that everyone has to realise the self for oneself because bhagavAn's self-realisation doesn't imply our self-abidance :-)
s/R Subramanian/Friends,
"is sleeping under a ceiling fan more moderate than an air-cooler??"
All depends on the State electricity Board who moderate and level everyone-one who has AC,Water cooler or a fan-All are the same.The one with a Hand fan is the privileged one!
Jokes apart,moderation is only a general term,and no yardsticks are there-in terms of quantity of consumption-be it Eating,Sleeping,Recreation,etc.No need to compare with others-Each one has to find out the optimum level for oneself,depending on his age,profession,Stage in Life,etc.
Contentment also is likewise.In the simplest of terms,it is to be satisfied with what one has and with no regrets to what one does not have.Most importantly when there is absolutely no reference to what another has or has not as well.More than posessing or not posessing anything,contentment is a state of mind that is not in a state of unrest and perpetual want.
One may be an Ascetic and yet without contentment,another may be a householder and yet contented.
Namaskar.
Dear S.,
I agree with you in one sense that moderation, 'enough is enough', varies from person to person. But there is a general standard, like they say in Tamizh, 'you stop eating only when you are still hungry.' Like this, there are moderations in every thing, like, for a home of three persons, a husband, a wife and a child, one cell phone is adequate. When husband is in office, he can always contact his wife through the cellphone at home, with the help of his office phone. The child does not need a cell phone in school. In any emergency, say heavy rains, or the school gets closed due to some general strike, the child can always contact his mother, through the public booth. Such emergencies are very rare. However, we find that in a house of three, there are
five cellphones.
Regarding eating, Sri Bhagavan Himself said that some people by nature, are more hungry and they needed some extra food. He used to say this about Dhandapani Swami, Muruganar's father in law. He is a heavy built man, was doing some gardening too inside the Asramam. Sri Bhagavan said, Dhandapani Swami needs extra food.
In this context, I remember Annmalai Swami's story. In the beginning of his stay in the Asramam, one day while distributing
sweets that were brought by a devotee, when one piece was left when everyone had been given, Annamamlai Swami went a little away and quietly gulped the remaining sweet, (apart from earlier taking his own quota). Sri Bhagavan knew about this, though He did not see it actually. He chided Annamalai Swami. Annamalai Swami from that day, developed dispassion not to seek or eat extra sweets, fruits or food.
Sri Bhagavan has said in Who am I:
Q: What is nirasai, what is Jnanam?
Sri Bhagavan: Nirasai, Vairagyam, is where the mind does not seek any thing. Jnanam is one where nothing appears!
This Nirasai definition is the most tough qualification because it is equated to Jnanam. But we can at least have dhur asai or pErasai.
That is enough is enough.
Subramanian. R
Dear S.,
Please read the last line:
We can at least refrain from dhur Asai or pErAsai.
Subramanian. R
salutations to all:
Subramanian/Ravi:
it's obvious that what bhagavAn checked in aNNAmalai svAmi was the craving for more and/or the desire to have more than what everybody could have equitably obtained. there can be no universal standard of moderation, for contentment is more of a mental quality than determined by the quantity of possessions one has! the 'enough is enough', as you know, will keep changing from time to time. what may be moderate to one may seem extravagant/deficient to another.
you took the 'cellphone' example -a decade ago, most people didn't have a cellphone (in fact, no phone at all!); why is it 'moderate' to have just 'one' cellphone today today?? likewise, somebody may say that a couple of scores of years ago, life was perfectly fine without a fan; why is it 'moderate' today to have a couple of ceiling fans at home?? hence, it's a very relative term. i don't carry a cellphone for work; does that make me a more contented person that those who do?? (almost everybody has a cellphone today) no, of course, not :-) a quiet mind is a contented mind. just as bhagavAn talks of true satsangha to be having the company of the self, similarly genuine contentment may only be to rest content in the self :-), the rest are only our own petty concepts that more often than not only help us to beget a pride of being contented just as one sees a few being proud of their humility!! :-)
don't remember who said it (chinmayAnandar??) - 'humility is a strange thing; as soon as one becomes aware of it, one has lost it' :-)))
R.subramanian/s/Friends,
Contentment...possessions...avarice...inappropriate desire...annamalai swami's surreptitious eating of sweets...cellphone moderation...onto ...pride...humility...
perfect example of Storm in a tea cup!
Suffice to say that contentment is a state of mind that cannot be quantified nor qualified as 'more' or 'less'; no question of 'Enough' here.No threshold here. It is a state of mind that is free of unrest and want-free of accumulation.
It is for every one to verify for oneself whether it is there or not. Another person cannot evaluate if it is there or not,all such judgements are bound to be fallible.
Namaskar.
s,
just as bhagavAn talks of true satsangha to be having the company of the self, similarly genuine contentment may only be to rest content in the self :-)
Is this not begging the question?If it is said that Self alone exists,where is the question of associating with Self(satsangha)?I have to differ with Bhagavan here!Bhagavan had lost the opportunity for satsangha!
Serenity,contentment,satsangha are precursors to God Realization.
As Sri Ramakrishna says:
"There are certain signs of God-realization. The man in whom longing for God manifests
its glories is not far from attaining Him. What are the glories of that longing? They are
discrimination, dispassion, compassion for living beings, serving holy men, loving their
company, chanting the name and glories of God, telling the truth, and the like. When you
see those signs of longing in an aspirant, you can rightly say that for him the vision of God
is not far to seek.
"The state of a servant's house will tell you unmistakably whether his master has decided to
visit it. First, the rubbish and jungle around the house are cleared up. Second, the soot and
dirt are removed from the rooms. Third, the courtyard, floors, and other places are swept
clean. Finally the master himself sends various things to the house such as a carpet, a
hubble-bubble for smoking, and the like. When you see these things arriving, you conclude
that the master will very soon come"
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi:
by company of the self was meant being the self :-) while in the most general case, there could be & would be precursors & prerequisites, yet nothing of that sort is mandatory for self-realisation :-) in any case, owing to ignorance i'm not in a position to categorically state what is an 'absolute' necessity for realisation :-) those who beg to differ better know god or be the self :-) to place implicit faith in precursors is attributable to one's desperate need to take shelter within the safe cushion of causality! i agree if 'you' say that 'you' need those precursors, which has got nothing to do with the self requiring the same crutches :-) as regards the beautiful words of thAkur, as i've said before, thAkur out of great compassion simplified the teachings, especially for those who can't even sit in a singular posture for half an hour without twitching a limb :-)
s,
"by company of the self was meant being the self :-)"
Does this make any difference,only the phrasing is changed,is it not?
If self is said to be beyond being on non-being,-all things that we talk about have no meaning there.For things(like contentment,etc) to be meaningful,they need to be pertaining to the mind only ,the mind that we can know and feel and experience-Satsangh,contentment ,serenity-all have to do with the mind only.
That these are precursors to God-Realization is not the opinion of weaklings but the sayings of all Great sages,who know
what they are saying.It is for every seeker to understand the road map and recognize the truth behind these sayings.
As for this-"especially for those who can't even sit in a singular posture for half an hour without twitching a limb :-)"-No one has so far mentioned this as a precursor or even a beginning to anything,still less God-Realization.One may after a little practice succeed in such a thing but the utility of such a thing is dubious!
Namaskar.
s/Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"There was once a goldsmith whose tongue suddenly turned up and stuck to his palate. He
looked like a man in samadhi. He became completely inert and remained so a long time.
People came to worship him. After several years, his tongue suddenly returned to its natural
position, and he became conscious of things as before. So he went back to his work as a
goldsmith.(All laugh.)
"These are physical things and have nothing to do with God. There was a man who knew
eighty-two postures and talked big about yoga-samadhi. But inwardly he was drawn to
'woman and gold'. Once he found a bank-note worth several thousand rupees. He could not
resist the temptation, and swallowed it, thinking he would get it out somehow later on. The
note was got out of him all right, but he was sent to jail for three years. In my guilelessness
I used to think that the man had made great spiritual progress. Really, I say it upon my
word!"
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru kadaimudi - 609 304.
This small village is nowadays called Keezhaiyur. It is on the bus route from Mayiladuthurai to Poompuhar.
Siva is called Kadaimudi Nathar. Uma is called Abhirami. The holy waters (tirtham) are a tank named KaruNa Tirtham. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is kiLuvai tree.
There is also a Siva Lingam below the kiLuvai tree. Brahma, the creator, is said to have prayed to Siva here in this temple.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses.
One has to inform the priest who has got his house near the temple, in advance, so that he will come and show arti. Being a small temple, it is not looked after quite well.
*****
salutations to all:
Ravi:
:-) knowing a bunch of postures is not the same as firmly assuming a posture for the entire duration for which one may do sAdhanA! in many serious practices, be it vipassana or kriya, ability to sit with the least bodily movement is very often a pre-requisite for doing anything worthwhile. for that matter, those do vichAra will also tell that the more one can sit in a firm Asana without being bothered by the petty bodily discomforts, so much is that of invaluable help in focussing on the job at hand :-) if you think only a 'little practice' shall help you succeed, then you ought to try it out and see, and you may well be very surprised :-)
as regards the precursors, i didn't say they are not essential but only that they needn't be mandatory for everyone. that such & such a thing is what will necessarily lead one to that stems from one's habitual refuge within cause & effect. is attending discourses or participating in bhajans satsangha? perhaps, yes in rare cases (in majority of cases, it's a plain 'no'!) the next best thing to the sangha with the sat is to be in the company of thAkur or bhagavAn, and if that's not available, the optimal thing might be to be in serious sAdhanA, preferably in solitude... :-)))
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Syed:
Talks No. 268:
Dr. Syed: What is salvation? What did
Christ mean by it?
Maharshi: Salvation for whom? and from what?
Devotee: Salvation for the individual and from the sorrows and sufferings of the world.
Maharshi: Whose are the sorrows, etc.,?
Devotee: Of the mind.
Maharshi: Are you the mind?
Devotee: I shall now explain how this question arose. I was meditating. I began to reflect on the Grace shown by Christ to some devotees who got salvation. I consider Sri Bhagavan is similar. Is not salvation the result of similar Grace? That is what I mean by my questions.
Maharshi: Yes. Right.
Devotee: The booklet Who am I? speaks of Swarupa drishti (seeing the essence). Then there must be a seer and the seen. How can this be reconciled with the Ultimate Unity?
Maharshi: Why do you ask for salvation, release from sorrow, etc.,? He who asks for them sees them also. The fact is this. Drishti (sight) is Consciousness. It forms the subject and object. Can there be drishti apart from the Self. The Self is all - drishti, etc.,
Devotee: How to discern the ego from the Perfect 'I-I'?
Maharshi: That which rises and falls is the transient 'I'. That which has neither origin nor end is the permanent 'I-I' consciousness.
Devotee: Will continuous thought on the Self make the mind more and more refined so that it will not think of anything but the highest?
Maharshi: There is the peaceful mind which is supreme. When the same becomes restless, it is afflicted by thoughts. Mind is only the dynamic power (Sakti) of the Self.
Devotee: Are the sheaths material and different from the Self?
Maharshi: There is no difference between matter and spirit. Modern science admits that all matter is energy. Energy is power or force (Sakti). Therefore all are resolved in Siva and Sakti i.e the Self and the Mind.
The kosas are mere appearances. There is no reality in them as such.
.........
.........
*******
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Syed:
Talks No. 271:
Dr. Syed: How is Grace to be obtained?
Maharshi: Similar to obtaining the Self.
Devotee: Practically, how is it to be for us?
Maharshi: By self surrender.
Devotee: Grace was said to be the Self. Should I then surrender to my own Self?
Maharshi: Yes. To the One from whom Grace is sought. God, Guru,and Self are only different forms of the same.
Devotee: Please explain, so that I may understand.
Maharshi: So long as you think you are the individual you believe in God. On worshipping God, God appears to you as Guru. On serving the Guru, He manifests as the Self. This is the rationale.
******
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Syed:
Talks No. 273:
Dr. Syed asked: I have been reading the Five Hymns. I find that the hymns are addressed to Arunachala by you. You are an Advaitin. How do you then address God as a separate Being?
Maharshi: The devotee, God and the Hymn are all the Self.
Devotee: But you are addressing God. You are specifying this Arunahcala Hill as God.
Maharshi: You can identify the Self as the body. Should not the devotee identify the Self with Arunachala?
Devotee: If Arunachala be the Self why should it be specifically picked out among so many other hills? God is everywhere. Why do you specify Him as Arunachala?
Maharshi: What has attracted you from Allahabad to this place? What has attracted all these people around?
Devotee: Sri Bhagavan.
Maharshi: How was I attracted here? The Power cannot be denied. Again Arunachala is within and not without. The Self is Arunachala.
Devotee: Several terms are used in the holy books - Atman, Paramatman, Para etc., What is the gradation in them?
Maharshi: They mean the same to the user of the words. But they are understood differently by persons according to their development.
Devotee: But why do they use so many words to mean the same thing?
Maharshi: It is according to circumstances. They all mean the
Self. Para means 'not relative' or 'beyond the relative', that is to say, the Absolute.
Devotee: Should I meditate on the right chest in order to meditate on the Heart?
Maharshi: The Heart is not physical. Meditation should not be on the right or the left. Meditation should be on the Self. Everyone knows 'I am'. Who is the 'I'? It will be neither within nor without, neither on the right nor on the left. 'I am' - that is all.
The Heart is the center from which everything springs. Because you see the world, the body and so on, it is said that there is a center, for these, which is called the Heart. When you are in the Heart, the Heart is known to be neither the center nor the circumference. There is nothing else. Whose center could it be?
Devotee: May I take it that the Self and the non-Self are like substance and its shadow?
Maharshi: Substance and the shadow are for the one who sees only the shadow and mistakes it for the substance and sees its shadow also. But there is neither substance nor shadow for the one who is aware of the Reality.
..........
******
The meaning of the Curse in Srimad Bhagavata:
(Mountain Path, April - June 2010)
(by Neera Kashyap - an Executive Member of Delhi Ramana Kendra).
As in the Hindu epics and other puranas, in Srimad Bhagavata too curses are pronounced by the empowered as decree of destiny. Like ordainments, they cannot be revoked and their sentence must be borne by the cursed. Often a curse seems disproportionately harsh and undeserving in relation to the offence. But in taking a larger view, there appears to be divine will working through the curse like a hidden blessing. To cleanse the soul thoroughly of its known and unknown evil tendencies, so the vehicle can be prepared for Self Knowledge. To enable a willing and fearless acceptance -- an awakening and surrender -- to whatever must be borne; to transform attachment to the Maha Vishnu in the form of Krishna, and expressed through intense negativity for the world, and though the Lord's grace, so the soul's unconscious need for merging in the divine is actualized. To stir ferment and discord so that the Truth can reveal itself. To destroy the remnants of ego in a ripe soul as well as the uncontrolled ego of the Lord's own earthly clan, the Yadus, so that both the individual and the universe can achieve liberation and peace.
There is an underlying suggestion throughout Srimad Bhagavata, that a curse is given only to someone who, consciously or unconsciously, is a devotee who is being given the opportunity, though painful, to get past karmic barriers that have kept the light of devotion from shining in fullness. In tune with the whole of the Bhagavata, a curse also points to a penance borne willingly and with dispassion, so that devotion shines in surrender, gradually wilting doubts and desires and destroying the unexhausted stock of all past karmas.
Jaya and Vijaya, the two gatekeepers of Vaikunta appear to receive a curse that is disproportionate to their sin. They have to return to earth owing to their failure to recognize the spiritual attainments of the four Kumaras, whose entry they bar at the seventh and final gate of heaven. Earlier they had stopped Lord Rama's Sita (Lakshmi) from entering. So because of the compounded sin of false perception and suspicion unbefitting in a sattvic plane, the curse is not reduced and they must return to earth where diversity rises from the three vices of lust, anger, and greed. As they humbly accept the curse from the Kumaras in the interest of their own purification, begging that it may take immediate effect, the Lord Himself assures them that they will be firmly united with Him in thought, though in the form of a concentrated focus of anger, and that they will return to His service soon after.
continued..
The meaning of the curse in Srimad Bhagavata:
continues....
But it takes three births among the asuras for Jaya and Vijaya to cleanse themselves of their intense hostility towards the Lord. In their first birth, they are born as brothers Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakasipu, in their second as the brothers Ravana and Kumbhakarna and in their third as the close friends Sisupala and Dantavaktra. In all three births, the Lord in his different avatars, must kill them Himself -- putting to death their own intense attachment to Him through hate and anger so that they rise above the gunas in union with Him. The evils of hate and anger have a wide range. In the case of Hiranyaksha it is the basic evil of vanity, pride and derision towards the Lord which the Lord quickly overcomes. In the case of Hiranyakasipu, it is a complex battle against his own son Prahlada, who is a great devotee of the Lord. Empowered through a self brutalizing penance, the father brings the full force of his cruelty to bear to torture his adamant but utterly composed son, so much so that when the Lord emerges from a pillar to kill him, the Lord Himself trembles with rage that can be appeased by none other than the exemplary devotee Prahlada himself.
Writes S.S. Cohen: 'To our modern way of thinking... most of the curses recorded in the sacred Bhagavata seem to be curiously harsh and irreligious...(However)..Taking a long view of the matter, we find the curses to be not arbitrary, but governed by the laws of predesination to the lasting benefit of the persons affected. That they badly needed purification was proved by later events which showed them to be profoundly satanic, a trait temporarily covered by the sattvic atmosphere in which they lived. As Hiranyakasipu and Ravana they were veritable monsters of arrogance, lust, greed, treachery, tyranny and what not, and needed birth in a plane which offered scope for their manifestation, so that they may be scorched. (S.S.Cohen, Srimad Bhagavata, Sri Ramanasramam.)
continued.....
Monday Parayana:
Today in the evening, at about 6.30 pm. the devotees would start the parayana of Arunachala Stuti Panchakam. The week end crowd (coupled with Ugadi holiday on Friday) might have drained out today. And there will be only regular attendance for the Monday Prayana.
Sri AAMM:
Verse 37:
Sombiyaich summa sukam uNdu
uRangidil
Sol veru en gathi Arunachala!
Devoid of any activity of the antahkarana and remaining still in a state of objectless Being, feasting on and enjoying one's own natural Bliss of Atman, remaining in the state of deep sleep with Awareness, is there a greater state than this? Graciously instruct me Arunachala!
sukam uNdu uRangidil does not mean eating nicely and sleeping. Sri Bhagavan says that He has been consuming His own natural Bliss in the state of deep sleep with Awareness.
Tirumoolar also extols this state, in Tirumandiram, Verse 179:
Sleeping they perceived Sivaloka within
Sleeping they perceived
Siva Yoga within
Sleeping they perceived Sivabhoga within
Wisdom sleep; their state, how to describe?
****
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Have faith in the name of God. Then you won't need even to go to holy places."
Sri Ramakrishna sang, intoxicated with divine fervour:
Why should I go to Ganga or Gaya, to Kasi, Kanchi, or Prabhas,
So long as I can breathe my last with Kali's name upon my lips?
Ishan remained silent.
MASTER (to Ishan): "Tell me if you have any more doubts."
ISHAN: "You said everything when you spoke of faith."
MASTER: "God can be realized by true faith alone. And the realization is hastened if you
believe everything about God. The cow that picks and chooses its food gives milk only in
dribblets, but if she eats all kinds of plants, then her milk flows in torrents.
"Once I heard a story. A man heard the command of God that he should see his Ideal Deity
in a ram. He at once believed it. It is God who exists in all beings.
"A guru said to his disciple, 'It is Rama alone who resides in all bodies.' The disciple was a
man of great faith. One day a dog snatched a piece of bread from him and started to run
away. He ran after the dog, with a jar of butter in his hand, and cried again and again: 'O
Rama, stand still a minute. That bread hasn't been buttered.'
Namaskar.
R.Subramanian/Friends,
"Dr. Syed asked: I have been reading the Five Hymns. I find that the hymns are addressed to Arunachala by you. You are an Advaitin. How do you then address God as a separate Being?
Maharshi: The devotee, God and the Hymn are all the Self."
Sri Ramakrishna experienced this like this:
One day, listening to a recitation of the Bhagavata on the verandah of the Radhakanta
temple he fell into a divine mood and saw the enchanting form of Krishna. He perceived
the luminous rays issuing from Krishna's Lotus Feet in the form of a stout rope, which
touched first the Bhagavata and then his own chest, connecting all three - God, the
scripture, and the devotee. "After this vision," he used to say, "I came to realize that
Bhagavan, Bhakta, and Bhagavata - God, Devotee, and Scripture - are in reality one and the
same."
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Sikkal - 611 108:
This beautiful temple is about 5 kms
from Nagapattinam, a coastal town. The temple is mAdak Kovil i.e one which constructed over an artifical
hillock. Siva is called VeNNeyi Lingeswarar. VeNNai = butter. When
Sage Vasishta prayed here to get the divine cow Kamadenu. On obtaining Kamadenu, he prayed to a Siva Linga made out of butter, from Kamadenu's milk. Hence the name VeNNeyi Lingeswaraar. Uma is called Vel Nedung KaNNi, one who has got eyes like spear, sharp in their focus. The tirtham (holy waters) is a tank called pAl kuLam, the tank of milk, again after Kamadenu's milk. The holy tree (Sthala Viruksham) is jasmine creeper. Even today, this place is famous for abundant cultivation of jasmine flowers. Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 11 of his verses.
The shrine of Muruga is quite famous in this temple. Muruga is called SingAra Velar, one who has got beautiful Spear. He has got a male goat as His vehicle, which is again a rarity. Muruga is said to have three vehicles, viz., peacock, elephant and male goat. The festival Soora Samhara is quite famous in this temple. Muruga is said to have obtained the powerful Spear (Sakti Vel) from Uma to vanquish Soora padma and his brothers. Muruga was sweating with
anger before he proceeded for battle against the demons, and when the Spear was given by Uma, he sweated more. Even today, at the time of festival, when Muruga obtains Spear from Uma, His metal idol shows drops of sweat!
*****
Dear Ravi,
Nice information about Sri Ramakrishna. All Brahma Jnanis have expressed the same feelings and experiences.
Subramanian. R
Sri Bhagavan and Dr. Syed:
Talks No. 274:
The Muslim Professor asked how Vaishnavism can be reconciled to Advaitism.
Maharshi: The Vaishnavites call themselves Visishtadvatins. This is also Advaita. Just as the individual body comprises the soul, the ego and the gross body, so also
God comprises Paramatama, the world, and the individuals.
Devotee: Does not bhakti imply duality?
Maharshi: Swa swarupa anusandhanam bhaktirityabhideeyate, Reflection on one's own Self is called bhakti. Bhakti and Self inquiry are one and the same. The Self of Advaitins is the God of the bhaktas.
Devotee: Is there a spiritual hierarchy of all the original propounders of religions watching the spiritual welfare of the humans?
Maharshi: Let them or let them not be. It is only a surmise at the best. Atma is pratyaksha (self evident). Know it and be done with speculation. One may admit such a heirarchy; another may not. But no one can gainsay the Atma.
Devotee: What does Sri Bhagavan think of Pravritti and Nivritti margas?
Maharshi: Yes. Both are mentioned.
What of that?
Devotee: Which is the better of the two?
Maharshi: If you see the self - pure and simple, it is Nivritti. If you see the Self with the world, it is Pravritti. In other words, inward turned mind (antahrmukhi manas) is Nivritti. Outward going mind (bahirmukhi manas) is Pravritti. Anyway, there is nothing apart from the Self. Both are the same. Similarly also, with the spiritual hierarchy. They cannot exist apart from the Self. They are only in the Self and remain as the Self. Realization of the Self is the one Goal of all.
*******
Sri Bhagavan and Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 5:
Mr. M.Frydman, an engineer, remarked on the subject of Grace. 'A salt doll diving into the sea will not be protected by a water proof coat.'
It was a happy simile and was applauded as such. Maharshi added,
'The body is the waterproof coat.'
Talks No. 74:
Mr. Frydman, the engineer, writes in one of his letters: "Maharshi is with me, not only when I think of Him but also when I am not thinking of Him. Otherwise, how do I live?"
******
Sri Bhagavan and Mr. Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 115:
Mr. M. Frydman: Even without any initial desires there are some strange experiences for us. Wherefrom do they arise?
Maharshi: The desire may not be there now. Enough if it was before. Though forgotten by you now, it is bearing fruit in due course. That is how the Jnani is said to have prarabdha left for him. Of course, it only according to others' point of view.
******
The Meaning of the Curse in Srimad Bhagavata:
continues.....
A distinctive aspect of a curse is its acceptance by the cursed who cut across both asuras and kings. Diti, daughter of Daksha (one of the nine mind-born sons of Brahma), is cursed by her own husband Sage Kasyapa, when in a moment of uncontrolled sexual desire, she compels him to satisfy her even as he sits for worship. Kasyapa's curse on her: She will bear two wicked sons (Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakasipu) who will be the bane of existence, so much so, that the Lord Himself will have to descend to rid the world of them. Diti accepts the curse of bearing the wicked sons and starting the asura race purely because she knows that her sons will die at the hands of the Lord and thus attain salvation. The birth of wickedness in the form of two sons to a virtuous woman is not considered calamitous because it would be dealt with by the Lord, controlled and destroyed by Him. This will be the vindication of her faith in the Lord, a faith infinitely greater than her faith in her Brahmin husband.
Parikshit's acceptance of his curse displays the surrender to the Lord of a great and benevolent king. While hunting in a forest he is overcome by fatigue, hunger and thirst. He enters the hermitage and requests the meditating Sage Samiga to give him food and water. As the Sage does not stir from his deep absorption, the king's hunger makes him assume that the Sage's silence is an inhospitable sham. To test him, he picks up a dead snake with the tip of his sword and places it around the Sage's neck. The Sage still does not stir. The curse upon Parikshit is pronounced not by the Sage but by his enraged son. For his disrespect to the Sage and his transgression, the king will be bitten by a serpent and will die on the seventh day after the bite.
Parikshit accepts this curse with a strange relief and calm, as if he is a ripe soul ready for the final lap of the journey. There is everything auspicious about Parikshit's preparations for death. He hands over his kingly tasks, he fasts and meditates, he is visited by holy rishis and finally by the most exalted Sukadeva himself, from whom he seeks to learn the nature of Realization and the means of achieving it. Kingship over, the spirit prepares through purification to inquire about the Self, the means of enquiry and how one must face death. The result: the cursed king enters the fearless and blissful state of Brahman.
continued....
The Meaning of the Curse in Srimad Bhagavata:
continues....
Another cursed king has to rid himself of demonic tendencies. As king, Chitraketu had a thousand wives but no child. This created in him an intense desire for one. His wish is granted by the Sages Angirsa and Narada, but with the warning that the child who will be born to his eldest queen will bring both intense joy and intense grief. The child is poisoned in infancy itself by other jealous queens. Chiktraketu learns his lesson: intense desire brings intense grief. As the Sages themselves help the king to understand the nature of attachment, Chitraketu undergoes purification of prayer and fasting. Lord Sesha (Adisesha) appears, to further help rid him of the illusion of the world and to unite him with his Self. Chitraketu achieves oneness with the Lord and lives millions of years in the valley of Mount Meru.
However, one day, he comes upon Lord Siva on Mount Kailas teaching an assembly of great sages with his consort Parvati on His lap. Chitraketu utters a derisive remark on the spiritual master's public exhibition of love. Paravti's curse: be born a terrible demon to expiate for this son that the world once again belongs only to the great. Chitraketu has the power to counter Parvati's curse with one of his own. Instead he accepts her curse with wise humility as the will of the Lord. In the unending fight between the gods and the asuras, he is invoked from the sacrificial fire as the demon Vritra to fight Indra, the king of the gods. The irony is that he knows that he has been invoked to be sacrificed, for the strategist behind Indra's fight is the Lord Himself. Yet Vritra's fight is spirited, inspired by the fierce courage and strength of inner devotion and knowledge. When he is killed by Indra, his soul enters the Lord who stands before the hosts of heaven.
continued.....
The Meaning of the Curse in Srimad
Bhagavata:
continues....
One of the inspiring aspect of a curse in the Bhagavata is the effect on its trajectory when the cursed one has an encounter with the Lord Himself. The grandson of the asura king Bali, had supreme power, brahma tejas, and ruled the three worlds generously, magnanimously, and with humility. As the gods lost their glory through Rishi Durvasa's curse on Indra for his arrogance, the Lord answered the prayers of Aditi, the mother of gods, and took birth from her womb as the dwarf Vamana, so the gods could reign again. Lord Vamana lost no time in visiting Bali who treated him with great respect and requested him to name his wish. The Lord asked to be granted the gift of three pace of land. Bali poured water on the palm of one hand, pronouncing his solemn promise to give the gift demanded. Sensing mischief, Sukracharya, the Brahmin teacher of asuras, warned Bali to withdraw the grant as it was surely a ruse that could endanger his whole race. When Bali refused to retract his promise, Sukaracharya cursed him for his arrogance towards him, the teacher, predicting his fall from royal splendor. Undeterred, Bali proceeded lovingly to wash the Lord's feet. But the Lord expanded at such a rate that with two paces He covered the earth and the higher heaven, leaving no room for the third step.
Bali knew he and his race had lost, yet he enjoined his followers' patience and restraint. Lord Vamana charged Bali with perjury for having granted Him only two paces hen His demand was for three, and sentenced him to imprisonment in the nether regions. Bound with a rope as a prisoner, Bali bore this too with equanimity, and humbly suggested that since he had lost all, the Lord could place His third step on his head. With this, he reverentially revealed his recognition of the Lord with the words, 'You pose our enemy but I know you to be our greatest benefactor -- you who have blessed us with a vision of yourself on the pretence of causing our downfall, that vision through which many an asura has attained supreme liberation. How good is my destiny to bring me in direct contact with you, disguised as my enemy though you may be!'
The Lord's blessings came very swift to one who was unperturbed by calamity and threat, who stood firm by his promise even at the great risk of disobeying his own guru.
Sukaracharya's curse was nullified. Bali would rule Sutaloka (one of the seven subterranean regions of the earth characterized by natural beauty and divine architecture where inhabitants live free from sorrow and affliction.) in the interim and then occupy the seat of Indra in the next cyclic age (manvantra).
continued.....
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Prema, the rarest love of God
"It is not given to everybody to feel prema, ecstatic love of God. Chaitanya experienced it.
An ordinary man can at the most experience bhava. Only the Isvarakotis, such as Divine
Incarnations, experience prema. When prema is awakened the devotee not only feels the
world to be unreal, but forgets even the body, which everyone loves so intensely.
"In a Persian book it is said that inside the skin is the flesh, inside the flesh the bone, inside
the bone the marrow, and so on, but that prema is the innermost of all. One becomes soft
and tender through prema. On account of this prema, Krishna became tribhanga.
"Prema is the rope by which you can tether God, as it were. Whenever you want to see Him
you have merely to pull the rope. Whenever you call Him, He will appear before you.
"The mature stage of bhakti is bhava. When one attains it one remains speechless, thinking
of Satchidananda. The feeling of an ordinary man can go only that far. When bhava ripens
it becomes mahabhava. Prema is the last. You know the difference between a green mango
and a ripe one. Unalloyed love of God is the essential thing. All else is unreal.
"Once Rama was pleased with the prayer of Narada and told him to ask for a boon. Narada
prayed for pure love and said further, 'O Rama, please grant that I may not be deluded by
Thy world-bewitching maya.' Rama said: 'That is all right. But ask for something else.'
Narada replied: 'I don't want anything else. I pray only for pure love.'
How to attain pure love of God
"How can a devotee attain such love? First, the company of holy men. That awakens
śraddhā, faith in God. Then comes nishtha, single-minded devotion to the Ideal. In that
stage the devotee does not like to hear anything but talk about God. He performs only those
acts that please God. After nishtha comes bhakti, devotion to God; then comes bhava. Next
mahabhava, then prema, and last of all the attainment of God Himself. Only for Isvarakotis,
such as the Incarnations, is it possible to have mahabhava or prema."
Namaskar.
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru naNA - 638 301.
This place and temple is nowadays called Bhavani, near Bhavani Sagar
Dam in Erode district in Tamizh Nadu. This place is also surrounded by five hills called Padmagiri, Nagagiri, Chankagiri, Mangalagiri.
Further the three rivers, Kaveri, Bhavani and Amudha Nadhi, a small rivulet are merging here and so the place is called Mukkoodal. (merger of three).
Siva is called Shanmukha Nathar. Uma is called Bhavani or Vedamangai Ammai. The holy waters (tirtham) are river Kaveri. The temple tree (Sthala Viruksham) is ilandhai tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple is 11 of his verses.
A little away from the main temple, there is a shrine for a Siva Lingam
called Santhana Lingam. Here the lingam can be lifted away from the base, (avudai)! If couples even after some years marriage, do not have any child, they come here and takes this Lingam and come around the temple three times. Such pious act is said to be confer child-birth for the couples.
There is also a shrine with 1008 Lingams, called Sahasra Lingam. When Kaveri waters become full in the month of (June/July), many devotees come here and take bath and also pray to Siva.
******
Sri Bhagavan and Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 158:
Mr. Frydman: Janaka was a Jnani and still he ruled his dominion. Does not action require activity of the mind? What is the rationale of the working of a Jnani's mind?
Maharshi: Janaka was a Jnani and yet active etc., - Does Janaka ask the question? The question is in your mind only. The Jnani is not aware of anything besides the Self. He has no doubts of the kind.
Devotee: Probably it is like a dream. Just as we speak of our dreams, so they think of their actions.
Maharshi: Even the dream etc., is in your mind. This explanation too is in your mind only.
Devotee: Yes. I see. All is Ramana Maya - made up of the Self.
Maharshi: If so, there will be no duality and no talk.
Devotee: A man, on realizing the Self, can help the world more effectively. Is it not so?
Maharshi: If the world be apart from the Self.
(Muruganar gives a more direct explanation for this question in his Guru Vachaka Kovai. Verse 1139:
If it is asked, 'We actually see the Jnani performing actions. How can actions be performed in the absence of the sense of doership?' you should be convinced that because his inner attachment is dead, he has God himself residing in his Heart and performing those actions.
Sri Bhagavan also says in Day by Day, entry, May, 5, 1946:
And if it is held that a man cannot be considered a Jnani so long as he performs actions in the world, (and action is impossible without mind), then not only the great sages who carried on various kinds of work after attaining Jnana must not be considered Jnanis, but the gods also, and Iswara Himself, since he continues looking after the world. The fact is that any amount of action can be performed, and performed quite well, by the Jnani without his identifying himself with it in any way or ever imagining that he is the doer. Some Power acts through his body and uses his body to get the work done.
(From David Godman's Guru Vachaka Kovai, English translation and commentary.)
******
Sri Bhagavan and Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 179:
Mr. Frydman had asked Swami Ramdas something, to which he replied, that there would be no more births for himself. The engineer had pointed out that there should be no anxiety regarding rebirth. There will be the same Rama, the same Ramdas, the same search for Rama and the same bliss of realization.
What objection could be there for the repetition of this Rama-lila? Ramdas had admitted that there could be no objection, that it would be an enjoyment and a game. The engineer further said that Ramdas added that Ramdas had found Rama merged in Him and happy in that union. They are the same, still there was Ramdas, there was Rama, there was the union, there was Bliss. That is eternal.
Saying it, he asked what Sri Bhagavan would say to it.
Maharshi: It is all as true as the present events.
*******
Sri Bhagavan and Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 180:
Later the same gentleman (Mr. Frydman) said that sleep was a state of oblivion and the wakeful state was the mind's activity. The mind was in a potential state in sleep.
Maharshi: Were you not in sleep?
Devotee: Yes, I was. But in a state of oblivion. There must be a witness of oblivion and of the mind which says, that 'I' am continuous in both states.
Maharshi: Who is this witness? You speak of 'witness'. There must be an object and a subject to witness. These are creations of the mind. The idea of witness is in the mind. If there was s witness of oblivion did he say, 'I witness oblivion'? You, with your mind, said just now that there must be a witness. Who was the witness? You must reply 'I'. Who is that 'I' again? You are identifying yourself with the ego and say, 'I'. Is this ego 'I', the witness? It is the mind that speaks. It cannot be witness of itself. With self imposed limitations, you think that there is a witness of mind and of the oblivion. You also say, 'I am the witness'. That one who witnesses the oblivion must say, 'I witness oblivion.' The present mind cannot arrogate to itself that position.
The whole position thus becomes untenable. Consciousness is unlimited. On becoming limited, it simply arrogates to itself the position. There is really nothing to witness. IT is, simple BEING.
********
The meaning of the Curse in Srimad Bhagavata:
continues....
In the case of the two sons of Kubera, Nalakuvara and Manigriva, Sage Narada himself times the curse to end with the brothers' seemingly casual encounter with the Lord as baby Krishna. Elevated to associate with Lord Siva and allowed to sport in a lush garden flanking Mount Kailasa, the brothers take to drink and sexual indulgence. Once when Narada chances upon them with their lovers, the naked girls cover themselves in shame, but not the sons of Kubera. For this arrogant indecency, Narada curses them to become trees for a hundred celestial years - as trees symbolize a naked unselfconsciousness -- in order to reflect upon their own false prestige and drunken madness. Narada tells them that of all material enjoyments, it is riches that delude humans more than beauty, aristocracy or learning. It is only when this long period of involuntary self reflection is over, that the crawling baby Krishna recognizes the two arjuna trees to be the cursed brothers and brings them down with the mortar that his mother had tied to his waist as his punishment for stealing curd! Shorn of their pride, the penitent brothers shoot out from the trees, and bow to the Lord, effulgent with the knowledge that it is He, though a baby, who deserves the highest worship. For their reverential recognition, Lord Krishna rides them of all material bondage and lets them return to their celestial abode.
A curse can also act as a penance so that the devotee can overcome specific weakness, dominant among which is sexual indulgence. We saw this weakness displayed by Diti, by Kubera's sons and even by King Chitraketu. A strong attachment to the senses is also seen in the flurry of curses and counter curses that fly between Daksha and his divine son in law Lord Siva, only to establish in the end the Supreme Transcendence of Lord Siva and the attachment to the senses of Daksha, who must live with a goat's head forever, to symbolize his weakness! When Sukracharya curses his son in law Yayati for having illicit sex with asura princess Sarmishtha against his explicit warning, Yayati is cursed to immediately become old and senile -- the curse deliberately aimed at preventing further indulgence. Owing to Sukracharya's leniency, Yayati gets past this curse and turns to the divine when he realizes that lust can never be slaked by indulging in it.
continued...
I had always taken the comment in Talks 179 to be a rather startling prediction by Ramdas that Frydman was in his final birth. Some years ago it was pointed out to me that the syntax could also indicate that Ramdas was referring to himself.
I spoke to V. Ganesan about this and he confirmed that my original understanding was correct. He said that when Frydman came back from Kerala and announced that Ramdas had said that he was on his final birth, many people in the ashram made fun of him. At that time he was merely seen as a newly-arrived westerner in a business suit.
I think Ramdas saw something in him that the less discerning devotees in Tiruvannamalai missed. Decades later Nisargatta Maharaj confirmed that he had attained full jnana before he passed away.
The meaning of the Curse in Srimad Bhagavata:
Neera Kashyap:
continues.....
Curses also have a far reaching impact, unleashing ferment and unending opposition between the gods and the asuras. When Parikshit is bitten by the celestial serpent Takshaka with such venom that his body is reduced to a heap of ash, his son, Janamejaya is so aggrieved that he orders all the serpents in the land to be offered to a sacrificial fire. Thousands of serpents offer themselves, and when Takshaka appeals to Indra for help, even Indra and his retinue feel obliged to obey a fresh royal command that they too offer themselves as oblations. It is only at the intervention of Brihaspati, the teacher of the gods, that the carnage halted and the lesson
learnt that Takshaka cannot be killed by fire, as he has partaken of divine nectar, so Janamejaya's grief must be controlled and God's will accepted, that Parikshit had to die thus. In Rishi Durvasa's curse on Indra for his arrogance, he decrees that all the three worlds that Indra rules will lose their glory and prosperity with immediate effect. This starts an unending war between the gods and the asuras, in the course of which the Lord helps the gods to win back their supremacy at every turn and level.
Finally, the most terrible curse of all curses: the Lord's curse on His own clan, the Yadus: the Lord declares that they must die for their unspeakable insolence engendered by their unlimited prosperity and heroism. As Lord Krishna's mission on earth nears its end, and having fought unceasingly against unrighteousness, He must now reckon with His own kinsmen who have become wealthy, proud and mighty because of His unceasing guidance and support. The Lord thinks to Himself: "The Yadu race has, under My protection, enjoyed an unparalleled prosperity and has therefore become too strong to be defeated. So I alone can destroy it, by causing dissension within it, a dissension which will entirely consume it, like a bamboo forest which gets consumed by the fire sparked by itself....." Using yogamaya, the Lord causes a few Yadva princes to tease a group of venerable rishis. Dressing up Krishna's son Samba as a girl, the princess declare that the girl wishes to know from the rishis' unfailing vision whether the child she bears be a boy or a girl. Pat comes the reply of the rishis in anger: She is bearing a mace, which will destroy your race!
continued.....
The meaning of the Curse in Srimad Bhagavata:
continues....
Making careful provision for the safe passage of all the women, children and elders, the Lord gathers the able bodied Yadu men at an appointed place on the banks of the sacred Ganga. Fate intervenes to execute the will of the Lord. The men imbibe a highly intoxicating liquor in large draughts. Reason abandoned, bitter quarrels break out between them and the clash that follows is so bloody that even kinsmen and erstwhile friends hack each other down mercilessly and indiscriminately. The fury of their hatred unleashed by the intoxicant and the Lord's maya, is so great that it destroys them all, like a forest fire which leaves no tree alive. Thus is destroyed the Lord's own clan through His divine, impartial and impersonal will.
In Lord Krishna's final moments on earth, when He was with His fervent devotee Uddhava, He speaks words of
advice saying to all His devotees:
"On the seventh day from now Dwarka
will be submerged by the sea. The world will be invaded by the spirit of Kali and will lose its auspiciousness as soon as I turn My back on it. People will develop a taste for unrighteousness ways. you must not remain here. O good Uddhava, but shake off all attachment to your family and your own kinsmen and move about the world, with a mind centered wholly on Me."
concluded.
Dear David,
Thank you for your further clarification, as confirmed by Sri V. Ganesan. One cannot say when a person would get Jnana and attain enlightenment. The physical appearance cannot reveal their inner attainment. All Jnanis need not look like Sri Bhagavan. One can remain in one place and perhaps teach others if the devotees ask. Some one else can remain just quiet and leave their body after some time. Some may go to places to teach seeking disciples.
Once someone asked Sri Bhagavan: Why should Jnanis go to places to teach others? Why not they stay put in one place? Sri Bhagavan said: Mere staying in one place or going to places, all depend on God's will. Are not Narada, Janaka and Sri Sankara go from place to place to give upadesa, establish Maths or even rule a country? It is all God's will, His Sakti's sport.
Again when Rangan asked Sri Bhagavan: I am fed up with my life. Why not I come here and stay in Arunachala and be with you?
Sri Bhagavan said with kind look:
Ranga! The Hill will look splendid only when you stay far away. When you come near it will show a different picture. Do not try to take some one else's prarabdha. Be where you are, do atma vichara and attain the goal. Do not try to ape others. It is just impossible.
Thank you,
Subramanian. R
xx
R.Subramanian/David/Friends,
Papa Ramdas is indeed a Great soul.I recall how mAtAji Krishna bAi had mentioned in her autobiography-Guru's Grace-that she used to sleep a lot;on account of this she was considered unfit(Tamasic) for sadhana by many mahatmas and traditional gurus.
She then met Papa Ramdas who initiated her into Ram mantra.She stayed with Papa and served him.The Service to her guru and chanting of Rama Nama transformed her so much so that later on when she had an opportunity to meet the Mahatmas including SiddhAruda Swamiji,they were dumbfounded by what they saw-They asked 'Who is the Mahatma who has brought about this transformation?'!
I have already posted on how mAtAji KrishnAbAi had guided Sri Ganesan and had advised him to take care of sri Bhagavan's devotees in their advanced age.
Namaskar.
Wednesday Tamizh Parayana in the
Asramam:
Today, Wednesday, the Tamizh Parayana would start around 6.30 pm., and apart from Devi Kalottaram, devotees would sing Ekatma Panchakam, Appala Pattu and Atma Vidya Kirtanam. These small poems are chanted first and then Devi Kalottaram would be taken up.
Ekatma Panchakam is the last original work of Sri Bhagavan, composed first in Telugu and then in Tamizh in 1947. After this only Vivekachoodamani in prose was written by Sri Bhagavan.
Verse 2:
thAninirunthum thAnAka thannai
thanAnan evan
yAnirukkum thanam ethu enak ket -
pAnukku
yAn evan evvidam yAn uAn uLan enRa
madhu
pAnanai eedu pahar
Though one shines for ever as the form of Atman, yet regarding one as something other than oneself and to ask oneself 'Who am I?' and 'Where am I?' (in the course of inquiry) is akin to a drunken man with a mind befuddled with an intoxicant, crying aloud 'Who am I?' and 'Where am I?'
Though Sri Bhagavan prescribed atma vicharam as questioning 'Who am I?', in spite of merely repeating in the mind or by mouth, 'Who am I?' and 'What is my source?' instead of being poised as simply Being is a matter of ridicule.
The drunkenness here stands for letting go of the hold on reality out of inadvertence, thereby identifying oneself as 'I', 'I', with this phantom body.
*****
salutations to all:
Subramanian:
["...Sri Bhagavan said with kind look: Ranga! The Hill will look splendid only when you stay far away. When you come near it will show a different picture. Do not try to take some one else's prarabdha. Be where you are, do atma vichara and attain the goal. Do not try to ape others. It is just impossible..."]
(i)sir, could you please give the source of the above? for some reason, despite my earlier requests, you keep forgetting to give the source of whatever you attribute to bhagavAn (pardon for saying but if it's an impulse, perhaps you might want to check on it)
(ii) sir, at times don't you think you are unwittingly putting on the garb of a "guru"? again, pardon me for saying but you might want to spend a little time reflecting on this tendency. saying this more as a well-wisher and not with any intention to hurt you in anyway...
R.Subramanaian/s/Friends,
Our Friend R Subramanian has been giving the source of most of the excerpts that he has been posting.His posts here are as a devotee and not as a scholar-and some of the stories might have been heard or purely from memory as well,and may not be accurate,and this is quite understandable.
It is quite clear that he loves Bhagavan and has been sharing these posts as a devotee and with enthusiasm.
Each one of us have our preferences,and we may question the content and veracity of the posts but certainly not the intent of the one who posts.In that excerpt referring to the interaction between Sri Bhagavan and Rangan,it seemed to me that our friend R.S was only trying to bring out the informal,intimate and friendly terms of the relationship that existed between Bhagavan and Rangan.
I checked out the Human Gospel of Sri Ramana Maharshi and found that definitely Sri Bhagavan behaved quite differently with Rangan and his family!
continued....
Bhagavan and Rangan,from The Human Gospel of Sri Ramana Maharshi ....
Their relationship was beautiful: it was that of a fully awakened man, a sage of wisdom, and an ignorant man steeped in family sufferings, not spiritually inclined—but with a deep love for Bhagavan. The Master appreciated the depth of that friendship and would seat himself next to his friend by his bedside. Seeing him tossing and turning, weighed down by his problems, Bhagavan would pat him and ask gently, ―Hey, Ranga what is bothering you?‖ One day Ranga told him about his troubles.
―Have you given enough to your family to live on, while you have come away here?‖ Bhagavan enquired. Ranga was silent, too embarrassed to admit his inability to provide for his family. ―So you have some financial problems,‖ Bhagavan surmised. ―Is it enough if you get ten thousand rupees?‖ This was a huge amount in those days, and it surprised Rangan to hear Bhagavan talking about money. Bhagavan pressed on, ―Will it solve all your problems if you get ten thousand rupees?‖ Rangan remained quiet and after a few days took leave of Bhagavan and went to Madras. He managed to get a job selling Lorries and buses, and when he got his commission, it was exactly ten thousand rupees.
(Catch Bhagavan asking someone-Is it enough if you get ten thousand rupees -ravi)
Once, Rangan‘s wife, Chellammal went to Ramanashram while Bhagavan was there. All the devotees proceeded from the Ashram to walk around the hill.
Chellammal left the hall with the others but came back only to go around the old hall a few times. Bhagavan was surprised. ―How come you returned so quickly?‖ he asked.
She replied, ―No, Bhagavan. All the others have left for circumambulation of Arunachala but I could not join them as I have a problem with my back. I thought that I will do pradakshina to you instead.‖ Bhagavan arranged for an injection to be given by the Ashram doctor. The doctor advised Chellammal to rest in the guest house. She, however, could not resist Bhagavan‘s presence for even a few minutes. She managed to slowly reach Bhagavan‘s hall, making her husband really worried. Bhagavan just lifted his hand in blessing, and Chellammal was healed of her back pain. It never came back again.
This aspect of Bhagavan was unique because he had rarely done these things for anyone else, i.e. talk about money, give sacred ash, and raise his hand to heal. He came to these realms for a true friend. What is friendship? It is one deep facet of love. What is love? Love is wisdom—jnana—and Bhagavan embodied that.
Namaskar.
Hello, everyone.
I am now translating 'Hastamalaka Stotra' in 'Collected Works of Sri Ramana Maharshi' into Japanese.
Is it right that this work was translated into English by Arthur Osborne?
thank you
Siva temples sung about in Saiva Canons:
(Lesser known temples.)
Tiru pANdik kodumudi: 638 151
This place is now called Kodumudi.
This is one of the biggest temples on the banks of Kaveri in Erode and Salem districts.
Siva is called Kodumudi Nathar. Uma is called paNmozhi ammai, one who speaks like music. The holy waters (tirtham) are river Kaveri. The holy tree (Sthala Viruksham) is vaNNi tree.
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar has mentioned this temple in 22 of his verses, Tiru Navukkararasar in 5 of his verses and Sundaramuri Swami in 10 of his verses.
The inner sanctum and Siva Lingam are quite small. It is said that Sage Agasthya embraced this Lingam and one can see (with the help of the priest, if you go very near) the marks of fingers on Lingam.
There is also a shrine for Brahma (a rarity). There are also shrines for Hanuman and Maha Vishnu in Yoga Nidra. There are shrines for the nine planets and also a separate shrine for Sanisvaran on the vehicle of Crow.
Muruga devotees take Kaveri water on pots and carry them to Pazhani for abhishekam. Pazhani is about 75 kms.
Sundarmurti Swami's Namasivaya Padigam (decad) was sung only when he visited this temple.
******
Dear S, Ravi,
The incident that Sri Bhagavan told
Rangan about not coming to stay permanently in the Hill was mentioned by Nochur Venkataraman in his discourse. Nochur had heard many such non-recorded stories from Smt. Kanakammal. As for myself, I do not doubt the veracity of such remarks by Nochur in his discourses.
Sri Bhagavan is the only Guru for me. If I try to act as Guru to someone else, that is the meanest of acts that I can do in my life.
When Sri Bhagavan Himself says:
Let me be a loving devotee of the devotees of those devotees who hear your Name with love, O Arunachala!
(Sri AAMM 104)
Where am I?
*******
Ravi. Subramanian and S, These stories are so readable so wonderful. "Rangan took the liberty to ask the guru, ―Bhagavan,
why is it that your head shakes all the time and why do you need a stick
to walk? Bhagavan confided in his friend, ―Ranga, this is not because of
old age. When I came to Tiruvannamalai after the ego-death experience
and took shelter at the foot of Arunachala, this head started shaking.
―Why? Rangan enquired, looking puzzled. Bhagavan replied, ―Can you
imagine a violent, wild, mad elephant entering a small thatched shed?
What would happen to the hut is what happened to the body. It will go
to pieces. This is how the immensity of his spiritual experience had
affected his body"
If I remember correctly this was a question asked by Kunju Swami or perhaps both of these devotees asked the same question at different times.
Sri Bhagavan and Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 182:
In the course of the day an interesting photo was missing. Sri Bhagavan appeared concerned about it. Frydman asked how Sri Bhagavan viewed all these matters. Sri Bhagavan said: "Suppose you dream that you are taking me to Poland. You wake up and ask me: 'I dreamt so and so. Did you dream so or know it? Or how do you view it?' "
Devotee: But you are not aware of the happenings in front of you?
Maharshi: These are all workings of the mind and the questions also.
Then again Sri Bhagavan related an episode in Sri Rama's search for Sita. Parvati asked Siva why Rama, the Perfect Being, was grieving at the loss of Sita. Siva said that Rama was still Perfect. If the Perfection need be tested and made clear, Parvati might appear as Sita
before Rama and see what happened. So She did. Rama ignored her appearance and was still crying out,'Ha, Sita! Ha, Sita! and moved on like a blind man, without taking any notice of Parvati. (See also Talks No. 218)
*******
Sri Bhagavan and Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 239:
Mr. M. Frydman: One imagines things and enjoys them by strength of imaginations. Such creations are possible to Brahma, the Creator. Can the same statement apply to His creature, man?
Maharshi: This is also your thought.
Devotee: Krishnamurti says that man find out the 'I'. Then 'I' dissolves away, being only a bundle of circumstances. There is nothing behind the 'I'. His teaching seems to be very much like Buddha's.
Maharshi: Yes -- yes, beyond expression.
*****
Sri Bhagavan and Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 368:
A young girl of 9 or 10, whose mother is a Research Scholar in Sanskrit in the University of Madras, accompanied by Mr. Maurice Frydman met Sri Bhagavan in Palakottu at about 12 noon. Sri Bhagavan, as usual with Him, kindly smiled on her. She asked Sri Bhagavan: "Why is there misery on earth?"
Maharshi: Due to Karma.
Devotee: Who makes Karma bear fruits?
Maharshi: God.
Devotee: God makes us do Karma and gives bad fruits for bad Karmas. Is it fair?
Sri Bhagavan almost laughed and was very pleased with her. Later He was coaxing her to read something on returning to the Hall. Since then He is watching her.
*******
hey jude/Friends,
In the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,the Master gives exactly the same example of Elephant entering a hut!Here is the Excerpt:
Meaning of Keshab's illness
(To Keshab, with a smile) "Why is it that you are ill? There is a reason for it. Many
spiritual feelings have passed through your body; therefore it has fallen ill. At the time an
emotion is aroused, one understands very little about it. The blow that it delivers to the
body is felt only after a long while. I have seen big steamers going by on the Ganges, at the
time hardly noticing their passing. But oh, my! What a terrific noise is heard after a while,
when the waves splash against the banks! Perhaps a piece of the bank breaks loose and falls
into the water.
"An elephant entering a hut creates havoc within and ultimately shakes it down. The
elephant of divine emotion enters the hut of this body and shatters it to pieces.
"Do you know what actually happens? When a house is on fire, at first a few things inside
burn. Then comes the great commotion. Just so, the fire of Knowledge at first destroys such
enemies of spiritual life as passion, anger, and so forth. Then comes the turn of ego. And
lastly a violent commotion is seen in the physical frame.
"You may think that everything is going to be over. But God will not release you as long as
the slightest trace of your illness is left. You simply cannot leave the hospital if your name
is registered there. As long as the illness is not perfectly cured, the doctor won't give you a
permit to go. Why did you register your name in the hospital at all?" (All laugh.)
Master's own illness
Keshab laughed again and again at the Master's allusion to the hospital. Then Sri
Ramakrishna spoke of his own illness. (To Keshab) "Hriday used to say, 'Never before
have I seen such ecstasy for God, and never before have I seen such illness.' I was then
sriously ill with stubborn diarrhoea. It was as if millions of ants were gnawing at my brain.
But all the same, spiritual talk went on day and night. Dr. Rama of Natagore was called in
to see me. He found me discussing spiritual truth. 'What a madman!' he said. 'Nothing is
left of him but a few bones, and still he is reasoning like that!' "
Namaskar.
Sri Bhagavan and Maurice Frydman:
Talks No. 487:
An English lady, a young woman, came here dressed in a Muslim sari. She had evidently been in North India and met Dr. G.H. Mees.
Sri Bhagavan read out a stanza 'The Black Sun' from the anniversary number of The Vision, written by Swami Bharatananda (Maurice Frydman). After a few minutes, Miss J. asked:
One gathers from the stanza that one should keep on meditating until one gets merged in the state of consciousness. Do you think it right.
Maharshi: Yes.
Devotee: I go further and ask: Is it right that one should, by conscious will, go into that state from which there is no return?
No answer.
*****
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 9:
irattaigaL muppudigaL enRum onRu
paRRi
iruppavAm av onRu ethu enRu -
karutthinuL
kaNdAl kazhalum avai kaNdvare uNmai
kaNdAr kalangAre kAN.
The dyads (like birth and death, good and bad, pleasure and pain) and the triads (like knower, known and knowledge) merely exist holding on to the ego as support. If one but turns the mind inward within oneself and inquires into the truth of this ego, the dyads and triads will fall away. One who thus witnesses the death of the ego alone is the one who has seen the Self, or Truth. Such men of discernment, will never again be agitated.
Dyads and triads depend for their existence solely by the ego sense, which alone lends them support and sustenance, infusing them with life. When on Self inquiry, the ego, on which they are dependent, becomes extinct, the dyads and triads will also perish along with it. Then the One truth, the Content beyond, which alone remains, shines
forever.
Reality, the One content, is defined thus: It is Existence without beginning or end, eternal. Existence everywhere, endless and infinite. Existence underlying all forms, all changes, all forces, all matter and all spirit. The many change and pass away (phenomena), whereas the One always endures (noumenon). The triads are only appearances in time and space, whereas Reality lies beyond time and space. They are like a mirage over the Reality. They are the result of delusion.
Without an 'I' no triad can exist. Though we, as the Self, are none of all these dyads and triads, we, as Self, provide the ground and basis for all triads and dyads. Everything is but the gross form of subtle thoughts. The ego sense is the source of all these thoughts. In sleep, mind being absent, none of these exists. Therefore the ego is responsible for the rising of thoughts and creating this multiplicity.
continued....
salutations to all:
Ravi/Subramanian:
on the issue of giving references, i can only repeat what i'd requested earlier - bhagavAn's words are precious and when they are available, why not give the source? we all know how measured bhagavAn was in his talk - no word was inappropriate and no word was unnecessary. even small things make a difference, for what may be small to one needn't be to another! whether subramanian is saying out of his love for bhagavAn or devotional enthusiasm is not relevant here; loving bhagavAn has little to do with attributing words to bhagavAn from one's unreliable memory! in fact, one could say that if one loves bhagavAn, one will exercise great care in reproducing what bhagavAn said, isn't it? if one isn't gifted with M.'s kind of memory, then either give the precise quote along with the source or say that you are saying it from memory (and hence not entirely credible). if there is a desperate urge to jump & say what bhagavAn said, then that smells more of pomposity :-(. why sacrifice bhagavAn for subramanian's enthusiasm?
on the other issue, asked because it's quite common for anybody to genuinely presume that one's actions are in harmony with one's intentions, but that typically need not validly hold many a time! quite often, it's only when a good friend asks me to examine what i'm doing that i even observe the dissonance in me!! subramanian's intentions are never doubted but very often the way he, quite unwittingly, gets into an instructional mode, the lines between 'sharing' and 'teaching' appear to get blurred. it's beautiful to share but if one has an impulse to share about what bhagavAn said most of the time, it 'might' have to do more with showing people how much one knows or how great a devotee of bhagavAn one is! of course, all this need not necessarily apply and as i said very clearly that as a friend i was humbly requesting subramanian to have a look at himself...
Ulladu Narpadu - Main Text - Verse 9:
continues...
The ego, by veiling the Atman from shining, as It is, creates the plurality and differences in the phenomenal world while the ego is itself non-self. But how to destroy it? Sri Bhagavan teaches us a simple way to eliminate it. That is to inquire within, 'What is it that screens the Atman?' That is to inquire within. This He declares in the verse as, 'If inquired within and known what is the truth of that one (ego)...'. Its origin is to be probed not outside but within oneself. Then the ego and those that are dependent on the ego for their survival become extinct with the ego merging in the Source. Hence when one seeks the seer and finds the Self, the triads and dyads flee. The conquest over the ego will enthrone one as the sovereign ruler of the empire of the Atman!
The Jnanis who have vanquished the ego and are unshakably poised in the Self are the most valiant and are called dhiras or suras and are the most powerful. What is there for them to be perturbed or baffled about? The world of maya loses its sway over them, and nothing can unsettle them anymore. The delusion of maya lasts only as long as the ego-sense exists. How then will they be perturbed by the dyads and triads, those dhiras and suras whose glory Devi Kalottaaram says as being 'valorous and firmly established in the void of Jnana'?
Fear or perturbation occurs only when one is baffled by the plurality and the sense of 'otherness'. Misery and fear occur only when there is an object outside of one. Nescience or ego, is the cause of apprehension for many. Realization of unity, or 'no-otherness' is Jnana or wisdom. When one abides in the very form of Jnana as such, without a second, can fear or perturbation ever visit him again? This, a verse in Ozhivil Odukkam explains:
All called 'this' unreal said Guru;
Alas! Lost I a place to reside,
But for the vast space of grace.
'That we are' so said the Guru;
The sun that turns night to day
Its name or is it Bliss Supreme?
This 'no otherness' was felt even by the wild animals in the mere presence of Sri Bhagavan. They did not harm anyone and were at peace with the their natural enemies too. A vast number of anecdotes illustrating this have been recorded in their reminiscences by devotees.
Employing the analogies of fire and wind, the Kathopanishad seeks to explain how the One became Many, as it were. 'As the one fire, having entered the world becomes corresponding in form to every form, so the one inner self of all beings is corresponding in form to every form, and is yet outside. As the one wind, having entered the world, becomes corresponding in form to every form, and is yet outside.' The Self is the ground of the world, and is not exhausted by it. The one is immanent in the Many and yet transcends it.
concluded.
(Source: as mentioned in respect of other verses of Ulladu Narpadu, posted.)
s,
"the lines between 'sharing' and 'teaching' appear to get blurred. it's beautiful to share but if one has an impulse to share about what bhagavAn said most of the time, it 'might' have to do more with showing people how much one knows or how great a devotee of bhagavAn one is!"
Friend,I can only say this much-We encounter hundreds of persons in our everyday life and it is very rare that one gets to even mention the name of Bhagavan or any other Sage or Saint to anyone.Rare it is to find persons who are at all interested in spiritual or even literary perspective.It is only in forums like this that one encounters other like minded(yet different!)persons and gets to share these things.This helps the one who posts more than the one who may chance to read and may or may not agree with what is posted.
Many a time we may be totally off the mark when we try to read meaning into other's acts-All that is visible to us are the acts.
It is best to remember that anyone who has pursued Sadhana will definitely be introspective about his motives and quite clear about it.
Most often it is the one who tries to read the motives of others(Based on one's own experiences and shortcomings)that often get sidetracked-and may be imagining things that are not there.
Even if one were to live with such a devotee 24 hours of the day,it is not easy to get to understand who he or she is.
It serves one best not to wander in this territory.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi:
there was never any calculated attempt to read into subramanian's motives (of course, i've better things to do) :-), it was merely an observation that strikes one after being exposed to several centuries of subramanian's comments! if you'd noticed the initial tone, it was only a request, no attempt to put down or point a finger at anybody. in a public forum, one can't shy away from criticism. there is every reason to chastise me if i'd gone all the way to subramanian's home and questioned what he is jotiing in his personal diary! if you remember, there have been situations in the past when people had genuinely expressed the 'crowding-out' effect of subramanian's comments. was that ever respected? there were quite a few who used to regularly write in this blog but after subramanian's flood, why is it that other than you, we hardly see anyone else writing today in the blog! wouldn't it be more sensible to place one's incessant urge to write in one's own blog? if there is a blog, shouldn't it foster some valuable discussion as well? is it only for reproducing stuff from a dozen texts? i'm sorry to say but it looks more like subramanian's blog than david's blog!
s,
"if there is a blog, shouldn't it foster some valuable discussion as well?"
Nothing truly prevents such discussions.We certainly can look up to see who has posted what(There are no more than 10 or 12 posts a day and even if 7 or 8 are from one person,it is not much)and comfortably get along.
Namaskar.
s,
"i'm sorry to say but it looks more like subramanian's blog than david's blog!"
Why should it be so?If David had felt like that and expressed himself to this effect ,we may expect our friend R.S to pay heed and stop.Why should he stop this if I or you feel so!That is our problem and why should R.S change his ways to accommodate our fancy!Especially when he is only posting about Bhagavan.
It is clear that David has no problem with these posts-and has every now and then added/clarified to what our friend has posted.
What is our problem!:)
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi:
nobody ever asked subramanian to stop from posting (precisely for the very reasons you mentioned) :-). the twin points i'd raised y'day also had nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. the first was to request for the source, especially because there have been more than a few instances where subramanian & others hadn't; there is no thing like '9 out of 10 things said by bhagavAn have been quoted' - beg your pardon, no exceptions, for bhagavAn's words are precious and there are many, especially those who can't read tamizh, to whom it may mean a lot. there is no room for this 'my own words' thing (well if one doesn't remember, either don't quote or clearly say that it isn't reliable)! if at all 'own words', let it be bhagavAn's own words :-) for those who can read tamizh, they can read directly bhagavAn's words & nothing in english is as such necessary. i still humbly maintain that this tendency to say something off-the-cuff & attributing it to bhagavAn is a harmful impulse (more importantly to those who read it! & to my wretched eyes, there seems no grand illusions of bhakti in this) which is worth examining critically...
no offence meant to anybody & nobody is being asked to change their ways to suit our pet tastes :-)
s,
I agree that Sri Bhagavan's original works have to be translated with precision and that will be a boon for people not familiar with tamizh or Sanskrit.
When it comes to the reminiscences of devotees and the stories narrated by them,no such precision can be expected,nor is it essential as long as the BhAva and import is retained.
Instead of looking upon Bhagavan's words as some sort of 'AkAsh vAni' (Divine Utterance,infallible,etc),it can be enjoyed for its intense Humanity.
Most devotees in their reminiscences would have recorded the interactions as they have grasped and remembered.The Best in Class are The Letters from Sri Ramanasramam and Day by Day with Bhagavan.
There may be many incidents that may not have been recorded in writing but only have been heard from devotees who have moved with Bhagavan.These are also enjoyable as they are presented,on a as is where is basis.
Namaskar.
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