The previous 'Open Thread' appear to be malfunctioning by posting each comment twice. I am starting a new one to see if that solves the problem.
I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.
If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.
I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.
If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.
5,000 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2201 – 2400 of 5000 Newer› Newest»z,
"The pontiff said he was heartened by the developments brought about by social activist Anna Hazare's fast-unto-death. Calling fasting a valid weapon, he said people should "vigilantly follow up" the fruits of the protest to its logical end."
You may be interested in this news item from Times of India:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/specials/assembly-elections-2011/tamil-nadu/Vote-for-govt-that-stops-spread-of-MNCs-Kanchi-seer/articleshow/7936691.cms
I have nothing to comment on this item.
Namaskar.
All,
Can directing the frustrations generated out of thwared desires used to propel oneself onto the path of Enquiry/Surrender? Is there approval for this kind of thing from Bhagavan?
I am talking of a Dhruva kind of approach. As I understand, Dhruva initially did not have any genuine devotion to the Lord. However, he went on to do Tapas for the Lord purely because his desire to win over is father did not happen.
I guess, in life, we come across many such frustrations.
Regards Murali
Dear Murali,
I can only remember the story of one Bhilva
Mangal. He was mad after a courtesan and one
night to reach her (she was in a balcony of a
house), Bhilva took a hannging serpent, thinking
It was a rope, and reached the balcony! The girl
told him:- why not show this madness, towards
Krishna? Bhilva Mangal undersood the truth
immediately and became a devotee-poet of
Krishna. He is the author of Krishna Karnamrtam.
The life story of Arnagiri Natha, the saint poet who
composed thousands of songs on Muruga is also
somewhat similar.
Subramanian. R
S. K. Ramachandra Rao:-
Let us look at some of the verses of Sri Ramana's
Upadesa Saram. Verse 17 deals with enquiry and
the word used "margana" deserves special mention
for it is not generally used in spiritual literature.
Marga is a straight path in which all detours are
avoided. You deal with the thought as it arises and enquire,
"For whom has this thought arisen?" The thought
itself vanishes on such an enquiry. Every thought has
an outward tendency. If you counter a thought by another
thought, you are bound to move further outward. We
are also worried about the objects of our thoughts,
their utility and value. But through Sri Ramana's
straight method, the thought itself disappears. A
true miracle happens. Consciousness rid of the
Illusory superimpositions shines forth.
Subramanian. R
Dada J.P. Vaswani:-
I find four important things to be considered
By everyone who treads the path of Self
Realization, in Sri Ramana's method.
1. Practice of Silence
2. Control of physical body, I shall call it
Tapasya.
3. Longing for Self Realization, deep and
Continuous yearning.
4. Loving every living being - Remember the
story of Ramana waiting for low caste women
on the Hill to give water for washing and drinking.
Subramanian. R
There was silence. ..It smo happened that I had sat
down at the very foot of the wooden couch. The
Maharshi suddenly opened His eyes and looked
straight into mine. I looked into His. A mere look,
That was all. I felt that the Maharshi was, in that split
second, looking deep into me -- and I was sure that
He saw all my shallowness, confusions, faithlessness,
imperfections, and fears.
I was ashamed. But I did not want to take my eyes away
from His embracing look. Yet I could not stand that honest
kind, and pitying look ofpure love and deep wisdom.
It was I who had to look away --and the next
moment, when I gazed at His face again, He had
closed His eyes
A whirl of confusions -- my atheism dropping away,
but skepticism flooding in to question, wonder and
search. My reason gave me strength. "it is all
mesmerism, my own foolishness." Thus assuring
myself, I got up and walked away.
But I knew. The boy who left the Hall was not the
boy who had gone in some ten minutes before.
I knew what I had learned at Uttara Kasi for six
years under Sri Tapovanam, had already been given
years before by the Sage of Tiruvannamalai, on that
Hot summer day --- by a mere look.
(Swami Cinmayananda)
Hello.
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/Maharshi
In this site महर्षि can be pronounced in two ways -“Ma-har-shi” and “Ma-ha-ri-shi”.But I can't clearly understand the difference.Would you tell me the difference?
In Japan 'maharshi(maharishi)' is pronounced マハ'ル(ru)'シ or マハ'リ(ri)'シ.Which should we use?
Pronunciation of महर्षि :
http://www.forvo.com/word/%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%BF/
thank you
Dear Shiba,
The word is invariably written and pronounvced
as Ma-har-shi only. Some Tamizh writers write
and pronounce the word as Maha - rishi, which
is not apprppriate.
Subramanian. R
Thank you very much hema for your kind answer. Unfortunately I don't speak Tamil. It seems I won't be able to read about the Sage of Kanchi then. Will have to wait !
Thanks again anyway !
May God bless you and give you eternal bliss.
Mana
Hindu-Dharma_KanchiMahaSwami.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/?n2dy02mkxq2
Since Sankalpa and Vikalpa arise from the ego, the
prevention of rising of the ego is of the essence of
renunciation or sannyasa. To such sannyasins, there
is no difference between solitude and active life. Thus
Sage Vasishta says, "Just as a man, when his mind is
pre occupied, is not aware of what is in front of him,
so also the Sage though engaged in work is not the
doer thereof. Because his mind remains immersed in
the Self without the uprising of the ego." Just as a man
lying on his bed, dreams that he is falling headlong over
a precipice, so also, the ignorant person, whose ego is
still present, though engaged in deep meditation in
solitude, does not cease to be the doer of actions.
(Old Devotee's Papers)
Subramanian. R
Mana/Friends,
Here is a typical Sage of Kanchi encounter:
Kanchi Maha Periyava was camping in Tiruchi National College High School during April 1960. Thousands of devotees came every day seeking his blessings. All of them were given tasty meals.
This anna dAnam(Free Meals) that would start at eleven in the morning would last till four in the afternoon. The reception committee members felt it difficult to regulate the rush of the crowd and send the people away after properly feeding them.
They told their problem to the Sage and asked him if the people coming to dine might be given food in packets.
Periyava made them sit before him and asked just two questions.
One: where would they drop the banana leaves of the packets after eating their contents?
Two: Where would they go for a cup of water to quench their thirst?
The people sitting opposite him could not answer these questions.
Noticing their silence, Kanchi Mahaan said, "You people think of reducing the expenses and work involved. Only a man who is hungry would choose to sit in the first session and others in the last session?
"When I travelled to places, I have seen people drop after a meal the banana leaves in bins. I have seen Narikuravas (gypsies) collect any food left over in those leaves and then the cows feed on the leaves that still had some food crumbs. You see that your laying the leaves and serving food on them caters to the hunger of so many others?
"So drop your idea of preparing food packets this moment and serve food to all the people laying banana leaves for the purpose. To witness this many people taking food and spending for it is a great puNyam for you. And happiness for me too."
-----------------------------------
Namaskar.
If memories ( of past lives) are not absent, Jiva will not
attain " mala pari paka". ( state in which impurities are
ready for destruction ) and the lives of Jivas will get
shattered and ruined.
----- Guru Vachaka Kovai -- 117.
Subramanian. R
This is a conversation between the Maharshi and one
Sundararama Reddi from Nellore District. It took place
On the morning of 23-2-1930.
Devotee: What to do to get moksha?
Bhagavan: Learn what moksha is.
Devotee: Should I not leave my wife and family?
Bhagavan: What harm do they do? First find out
what you are.
Devotee: Should not one give up wife, home, wealth etc.,?
Bhagavan: Well, first learn what 'samsara' is. Is all that
Samsara? Are they not people who live in their
midst and get realization?
Devotee: is it permissible to adopt sannyasa asrama directly from brahmacharya asrama without taking up
the two intermediary orders of life namely, grahasta asrama and vanaprastabasrama?
Bhagavan: It is not imperative that those who are fully qualified for attaining Jnana should pass successively through all the orders of life. He that knows his real
Being pays no attention to the distinctions between one
order of life and another. Therefore to which ever of them he may belong, he finds it neither favourable, that is conducive to spiritual development, nor unfavourable, that is obstructing and retarding progress.
(Old Devotee's Papers )
Subramanian. R
Jnana is a fire that consumes the mind and on deep
reflection, one realizes that the Self or the Eternal I,
is beyond the reach of buddhi - intellect, manas - mind
and ahankara - ego. Sri Bhagavan is a preceptor, who was neither schooled in the scriptures, nor did He have any formal Guru to initiate Him into the spiritual path. Yet His
Life made an impact in the spiritual quest of many.
For instance, it is said that Sri Ramana Maharshi Himself
was unable to explain the stronghold and vibrations the term Arunachala had over His inner being. This unexplained aspect of spiritual awakening is symbolic of its complex that easily defies rational questionings and approaches. At the same time Sri Ramana's fascination with Periyapuranam establishes the truth that He could melt with love at the many ways in which Siva maintained a rapture with His devotees.
The cumulative effect of the following factors --- the magical quality of the name Arunachala to synthesize His spiritual awakening, the augmenting of this experience with the different facets of Siva's gragce and benign concern gained from His knowledge of Periyapuranam stories and the simulated confrontation with death experience that brought to the surface the awareness of " I " to clarify the
dichotomy between the body/mind and the Self --- completed His search for the Eternal Truth. To be able to
confront death while living puts into perspective the philosophical significance of the ever present awareness. That is why a Jnani has no fear of death.
Arunachala, the Hill symbolizes the form and the formless aspects of the Brahman and instructs humanity silently
about the Eternal Truth.
(From a discourse of Smt. Sudha Seshayyan, in July
2008.)
Subramanian. R
Mana,
There are six volumes of a book called "voice divine" (or 'voice of divinity', I am not sure of the exact title) which gives the views of the sage of kanchi on different aspects of Sadhana, et all. I bought my copy from the shop opposite to Sri Ramanashram. Also, the book is written in the English language.
best wishes
Dear Subramanian. R
Thank you very much for your reply.
Please tell me how to pronounce 'r' of 'Ma-har-shi'.
In Japan 'r' is sometimes pronounced 'ru' of 'Ru・an・da'.
thank you
Dear Shiba,
" r " in Maharshi is pronounced as in the English
word "fur" or "stir".
Subramanian. R
Devotee:- Bhagagvad Gita says that mortals cast off
their worn bodies and acquire new bodies, just as one
casts worn out clothes and wears new garments. How does
it apply to the death of infants, whose bodies are new and
fresh?
Bhagavan:- How do you know that the body of the dead
child is not worn out? It may not be apparent, but
unless it is worn out, it will not die. That is the Law of
Nature.
( Swami Madhava Tirtha, Conversations With the
Maharshi.)
Subramanian. R
One cultured aristocratic lady came and sought permission
to enter the Hall. The attendant politely asked her to come in and be seated.
Lady: It is said that liberty is already there to choose between good deeds and bad deeds and their respective consequences. It is also said that the results would fructify after death. So we should choose wisely. Is it not so?
Bhagavan:- But why care for things after death? Take care of the present. Choose virtuous acts of merit without caring for results. Events after death do not really concern us. Do you know if you are enjoying the fruits of your past karma now? Why all these things now? Such questions will not be raised when you are in sleep. You feel only happiness in your sleep. Are you a different person when you wake up? There is no mind in your sleep and you are happy. Find out the truth. Try to experience the same happiness in the waking state also. When you say " I " -- which is the real " I "? This should be enqiured into and solved.
(Old Devotee 's Papers.)
Subramanian. R
M.A Piggot:-
What meditation will help me?
Bhagavan:-- No meditation on any kind of object is helpful. You must learn to realize the subject and object as one. In meditating on an object, whether concrete or abstract, you are destroying the sense of oneness and creating duality. Meditate on what you are in Reality. Try to realize that the body is not you, the emotions are not you, the intellect is not you. When all these are not, you will find ----
What?
Bhagavan:- You will discover. It is not for me to say what an individual experience will be. Hold on to that.
But in trying to still the mind, I am likely to fall asleep.
Bhagavan:-- Put yourself into the condition as in deep
sleep. Then watch. Be asleep consciously, instead of unconsciously. There will be then only one consciousness.
(Mr. Piggot writes:- As the days passed, I saw more and more clearly that this was no theoretical philosophy.)
Subramanian. R
By its very nature, the mind is outward turned; it always tends to seek for the source of things among the things themselves; to be told to look for the source within, is, in a way, the beginning of a new life. Awareness takes the place of consciousness; in consciousness there is the "I", who is conscious, while awareness is undivided; awareness is aware of itself. The "I am" is a thought, while awareness is not a thought; there is no "I am aware" in awareness. Consciousness is an attribute while awareness is not; one can be aware of being conscious, but not conscious of awareness. God is the totality of consciousness, but awareness is beyond all - being as well as not-being.
Nisargadatta
Valandur Kalyanasundaram Iyer:--
Iyer was a very staunch devotee of Sri Bhagavan, who made history. He used to come to the Asramam regularly and knew the greatness of Sri Bhagavan. He would prostrate from a little distance. He was working as a Station Master at Valandur Railway Station, near Madurai.
Even whileon duty he would be absorbed in the constant
thought of Sri Bhagavan. One evening when he was on duty between 7 pm and 8 pm., he was overcome by an irresestible urge to visit Sri Bhagavan. A train was on the platform, ready to leave that station. Availing of this opportunity, he got into the train deserting the station, unmindful of consequences! His whole thought was on Sri Bhagavan. Only a last grade pointsman was left alone in the station. And no one else was there to take charge. This sensational news reached the headquarters and he was questioned by the official superiors and even by the police at the Madurai Station. Iyer did not reply properly to the superiors and he kept on repeating Ramana's name and insisted that he should go to the Asramam to see Him at once. The D.M.O also examined him and found nothing wrong mentally. It was a high voltage devotional upsurge. He refused to go back to the post. The officials sympathized with his state and put him safely on the train leaving for Tiruvannamalai. By this time, the news reached the Asramam and everyone was wonderstruck. Sri Bhagavan said nothing. Seeing the news item in the Swadesamitran newspaper next morning, I met Iyer at the station and took him home first for lunch and then he was escorted safely to the Asramam. There he calmly prostrated to Bhagavan from a little distance but said nothing more. He remained praying inwardly for a long time. Sri Bhagavan also said nothing but smiled. He stayed at the Asramam, as usual.
For dereliction of duty, he was awarded the punishment of break of service. Out of sympathy, he was re-employed in Railway service. But he remained in his job only for a short time and left it. He was in an advanced spiritual state. After premature retirement, he ran a small business for maintaining his family at Tiruvannamalai itself.
(Old Devotee's Papers.)
Subramanian. R
Dear Subramanian.R
Then, is the following pronunciation
wrong? I hear it like maharishi.
Pronunciation of महर्षि :
http://www.forvo.com/word/%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%BF/
thank you
pronunciation of Ramana Maharshi
http://www.forvo.com/word/ramana_maharshi/
I also hear it like maha'ri'shi.
Dear Shiba,
As I mentioned in the first post, Tamizhians pronounce the word as Maharishi, since in Tamizh, there is no compound letter as " rsh ". The compound letter in a correct sense
should be pronounced as in English words, brush, crush., etc.,
Subramanian. R
salutations to all:
Shiba:
if for some reason you aren't able to get the right pronunciation of 'maharshi', just don't bother. say it in whichever way it suits you. not that the name is less important but rather that the 'thought/ feeling' underlying the name far outweighs it :-)
The foot of a tree suffices him for a resting place,
And a plate is provided by his own two hands.
He scorns riches as he would a bundle of rags,
Those who wear the kaupina are indeed fortunate.
(Hymn of the Kaupinavata -verse 2).
For the One who has neither a name nor a form,
Let us play singing a thousand names for Him.
--- Tiruvachakam, Tiruthellenam.
Subramanian. R
Devotee: Who is a Jivan Mukta?
Bhagavan: The Jivan Mukta is one without Sankalpas.
Some power makes him do things in life. So he is
not the doer but the one who is made to do.
(Divine Glimpses, Mountain Path, Jan. 1966.)
Subramanian. R
To live with a Sadguru is living near fire.
For that reason, if you go away from him,
you are going away from God.
(Nochur Venkataraman.)
Subramanian. R
Ranga Rao:--
Ranga Rao was a long time inmate of the Asramam.
He hailed from nearby Polur. He took an active part
in serving the Asramam. He attended to the kitchen
work. He also worked in the stores and in the Temple
construction. He extended full cooperation to the temple
Stapathi. He was deeply attached to the Asramam and
Sri Bhagavan. He had a strong will and attended to things
beyond his physical capacity, with great determination.
Towards the end of his life, he suffered from cancer in his
mouth. He went somewhere for treatment but was not
completely cured. Somehow, since the Asramam was very
dear to him, he came back and served for some more
years.
(Down memory lane --N.N. Rajan. )
Subramanian. R
There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness. Until that is
realised effort is necessary. Aftertasting such bliss even once, one will repeatedly try to
regain it. Having once experienced the bliss of
peace, no one would like to be out of it or engage himself otherwise.
Ramana
I am very sorry for my persistence.It is my character.
Can महर्षि be written like महाऋषि ?
I refered to the following site.
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/Maharshi
I am sorry. What I want to write is महऋषि not महाऋषि.
shiba,
A + R = ar, mahA + RShi: = maharShi:, great sage .
Please visit this site:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Sanskrit/Sandhi
This deals with how to compound words.The beginner would like to spell the words separately and learn to pronounce the compound word.
Namaskar.
shiba,
You may also like to view this site:
http://www.danam.co.uk/Sanskrit/Sanskrit%20Introductory/Sanskrit%20Introductory.html
Namaskar.
Thank you very much, Ravi.
I undestand महऋषि is not correct.
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Need of a guru
NEIGHBOUR: "Then householders, too, will have the vision of God, won't they?"
MASTER: "Everybody will surely be liberated. But one should follow the instructions of
the guru; if one follows a devious path, one will suffer in trying to retrace one's steps. It
takes a long time to achieve liberation. A man may fail to obtain it in this life. Perhaps he
will realize God only after many births. Sages like Janaka performed worldly duties. They
performed them, bearing God in their minds, as a dancing-girl dances, keeping jars or trays
on her head. Haven't you seen how the women in northwest India walk, talking and
laughing while carrying water-pitchers on their beads?"
NEIGHBOUR: "You just referred to the instructions of the guru. How shall we find him?"
MASTER: "Anyone and everyone cannot be a guru. A huge timber floats on the water and
can carry animals as well. But a piece of worthless wood sinks, if a man sits on it, and
drowns him. Therefore in every age God incarnates Himself as the guru, to teach humanity.
Satchidananda alone is the guru.
"What is knowledge? And what is the nature of this ego? 'God alone is the Doer, and none
else' - that is knowledge. I am not the doer; I am a mere instrument in His hand. Therefore I
say: 'O Mother, Thou art the Operator and I am the machine. Thou art the Indweller and I
am the house. Thou art the Driver and I am the carriage. I move as Thou movest me. I do as
Thou makest me do. I speak as Thou makest me speak. Not I, not I, but Thou, but Thou.' "
From Prankrishna's house the Master went to Colonel Viswanath's and from there to the
Lily Cottage.
Namaskar.
Friends,
Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Bondage and liberation are of the mind
"It is all a question of the mind. Bondage and liberation are of the mind alone. The mind
will take the colour you dye it with. It is like white clothes just returned from the laundry. If
you dip them in red dye, they will be red. If you dip them in blue or green, they will be blue
or green. They will take only the colour you dip them in, whatever it may be. Haven't you
noticed that, if you read a little English, you at once begin to utter English words: Foot fut
it mit? Then you put on boots and whistle a tune, and so on. It all goes together. Or, if a
scholar studies Sanskrit, he will at once rattle off Sanskrit verses. If you are in bad
company, then you will talk and think like your companions. On the other hand, when you
are in the company of devotees, you will think and talk only of God.
"The mind is everything. A man has his wife on one side and his daughter on the other. He
shows his affection to them in different ways. But his mind is one and the same.
"Bondage is of the mind, and freedom is also of the mind. A man is free if he constantly
thinks: 'I am a free soul. How can I be bound, whether I live in the world or in the forest? I
am a child of God, the King of Kings. Who can bind me?' If bitten by a snake, a man may
get rid of its venom by saying emphatically, 'There is no poison in me.' In the same way, by
repeating with grit and determination, 'I am not bound, I am free', one really becomes soone
really becomes free."
Namaskar.
A sign is up saying there are restrictions on wearing a lungi in the Arunacheleswar temple.
Obviously the temple authorities only want middle class, religious tourism.
Where are all the sadhus that used to be seen in and around the temple?
If the management of the temple is so enamoured with western ways they should move to the United States or Europe and be done with it!
Dear Anon.,
What the temple authorities call as LUNGI is not the white dhoti. White dothi is the dress that is most preferred.
What they mean by lingi (also called Kaili), is thmany colored dhoti, which is the usual home attire of South
Indian Muslims.
Subramanian. R
Non Objective Meditation:-
What is non objective enquiry? It is an enquiry in
which the attention is focused on the subject, the "I".
One has to remember that what has to be tackled is the
wrong notion that one is a particular name and form.
The question being "What is one's true identity?" From this angle, how effective can the normal meditation be? What do we do in normal meditation? In it there is the meditator and the object meditated upon, be it a sacred syllable, name or form. In this duality is present. The crucial question of one's identity is not tackled let alone effectively. To deal with the core problem, therefore, one has to look for an alternative. This is provided by non objective meditation. In such meditation, attention is on the core of the mind. The "I" thought, or the wrong notion about oneself is questioned. Attention is not on the seen, the objects, but on the seer. Such attention turns the mind inwards and one becomes aware of the heart's throb, the aham sphurana. This attention itself is sufficient. Only it should be sustained. Nothing further needs to be done since such attention would result in the subject "I", subsiding into its source. Then, the real subject, the Self, alone remains. It would be seen that the subject and object are one as the subject is all pervasive. Self attention and unitaryvision follow.
The advantage of this method is that since the seen is dependent on the seer's attention, attention on the seer stops thoughts on their track. Also, from the beginning one
is able to adopt a unitary approach and the fact of oneness of the Self becomes established in the psyche. Later, this becomes one's experience.
(Old Devotees' Papers.)
Subramanian. R
Devotee: What are the hindrances to Self Realization?
Bhagavan: Memory, chiefly, habits of thought, accumulated tendencies.
Devotee: How to get rid of these hindrances?
Bhagavan: Seek the Self by meditation in this manner. Trace every thought to its origin, which is only the mind. Never allow thought to run on. If you do, it would be unending. Take it back to its starting place again and again and the mind would die of inaction. Go back constantly to the question Who am I? Tear everything away until only the Source of all is left. And then live always in the present, only in it. There is no past or future except in the mind.
(M.A. Piggot -- The Way of Spirit, Mountain Path, January, 1970.)
Subramanian. R
The guru of a friend of mine, who passed away some years ago and was undoubtedly a Jnani, used to tell him, that if he desired Self Realization sufficiently, he could not even die till he had attained his goal. And in that is our hope.
You ask me how long I had to persevere in solitude before I attained peace. Surely peace is a thing which grows and is not for the majority attained in a flash once and for all. (I am not speaking here about Self Realization). The moment I came into the presence of my Guru, eleven years ago, I found peace. My staying here was never premeditated. It was just something which had to be in spite of myself ! Itbwas my true home. However the pendulum swings, in time the beats grow shorter and shorter until itvcomes to rest in the Self. To expectbanything else is to expect the impossible.
It seems to me that the great thing is to follow one Guru and one path unwaveringly and the Goal is assured. For
after all, the goal and the path are the same. The Chinese call the both the WAY -TAO. But we become disheartened and impatient. These two seem to me the two great obstacles to attainment. If we can only face up to these and go on in spitevof everything and everybody then there is absolutely no doubt as to the result. But how few of us can! May the Supreme Guru give us the necessary strength!
I seem to have very prolix and to have preached. I ask your forgiveness.
Very cordially yours,
A.W. Chadwick.
(a part of AWC's letter to Dilip Kumar Roy.)
(Old devotees' Papers.)
Subramanian. R
salutations to all:
Anonymous:
you'd said: ["...If the management of the temple is so enamoured with western ways they should move to the United States or Europe and be done with it!..."]
while your indignation is undestandable, isn't it a lot more easier to simply not go rather than prescribing how they should change the rules or where they should 'relocate'? :-) precisely the kind of things bhagavAn warned scores of times with 'vanda vElayai pAr' :-) for a 'seeker', isn't the world perfect as it is? isn't every piece of worry only a blessed opportunity to attend to self-enquiry? :-)
Dear Subramanian and S,
Please don't forget that Mastan was a South Indian Muslim.
S, you're right. I may or may not go back and many others feel the same way. The temple was a place of great beauty with an atmosphere all of its own. It was both majestic and mysterious and had a certain magnetism.
Now it's turned into a huge, noisy bus depot!
It's obvious, the less said the better.
Dear Anon.,
First you said about the Lungi matter. I explained.
Lungi is a Moslem variation of white dhoti, which is
worn by Hindus since ages. Innfact temple authorities
do not object to one wearing trousers and T shirts.
Lungis tradionally are considered as a home attire
like nighties and negligees for women.
Now you say the temple looks like a huge bus depot.
I do not think so. Kindly avoid festival days, Fridays,
and full moon days. Go in the early morning say 6.30
AM IST. You will have a different experience. In fact
I do it that way and afterba leisurely darshan, return at
7.30 AM though I miss asramam breakfast.
Mastan Swami was applying Vibhuti all over his body
and looked like a Pandaram, a name for Saivite
sadhus. I don't think he was wearing a colored dhoti,
called Lungi or Kaili.
Subramanian. R
Ramanadasa Sadananda:-
A niece of mine was wondering at first that Sri
Bhagavan knows everything that passes in our minds,
even without telling Him about it. For when I took her
to the Asramam in Feb. 1929, Sri Bhagavan cleared
her doubt on two occasion. First, the meaning of
Undeepara in Upadesa Undiyar and second the nature of illness that troubled a dog in the Asramam, just when she thought about those two things!
(Old Devitees' Experiences.)
Subramanian. R
Ramanadasa Sadananda:-
Almost every one in my house has some experience to express, some tale to tell, in order to prove his or her intense faith in and ardent devotion to the Lotus Feet
of Sri Bhagavan. A child of three and a half years is persistently requesting like almost like another
Nandanar, to be taken to Tiruvannamalai to have
a darshan of Sri Bhagavan.
Subramanian. R
Subramanian you are watering down the definition: Cotton lungis are extremely comfortable to wear in the hot and humid climate mostly prevalent in south India. Many labourers and artisans wear it as the main waist cloth and a regular daily dress.
Lungis (also known as Kailis in Tamil Nadu, India) are quite popular across Tamil Nadu.
Arunachala and Hong Kong:
My son while returning from office, last evening,
brought about 500 gms. of instant cofee powder,
stating that he bought it in a special stores where
this powder is available occasionally. On seeing
that special brand, I was specifically reminded
about one oft made c,onfirmation of Sri Bhagavan.
He used to say that Arumachala is the axis of the
Earth and there must be counter axis on the other
side of the globe. Major Chadwick made some
efforts to trace a Hill and said it must be somewhere
near South America.
Recently one Mr. Ravi Iyer (Indian in U.S.?) made efforts
To trace such a Hill and finally found it out as Mount
Macchu Picchu in Peru. Near this Hill some ancient
Tribes of South America are living and their deity is
one Pachamma (reminding us Pachaiamman of
Tiruvannamalai) . The details of this place,
Latitude and Longitude details, exactly go to prove
that this Hill is counter axis of the spherical globe.
There was also an interesting article in Mountain
Path about a year or two ago.
Now about this Peruvian Cofee Powder. This instsnt
Cofee's brand name is Mount Macchu Picchu ! It is
Arabica 100 percent coffee and is a special export
Product of Peru.
More on the temple - You know when the authentic is fossilised, the moment it is referred to as 1.culture 2.custom 3.traditions thats when various do's and donts are deviced by the profiteer, commodifiying that which originally was strictly non commercial. imposing dress code is only 1 way to exercise control over a massive revenue generating enterprise with fee scale for every imaginable puja under the sun ...to.think that not long ago the only condition required was to be alive,never mind the dress
Friends,
Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Maya creates upadhis
"The jiva is nothing but the embodiment of Satchidananda. But since maya, or ego, has
created various upadhis, he has forgotten his real Self.
"Each upadhi changes man's nature. If he wears a fine black-bordered cloth, you will at
once find him humming Nidhu Babu's love-songs. Then playing-cards and a walking-stick
follow. If even a sickly man puts on high boots, he begins to whistle and climbs the stairs
like an Englishman, jumping from one step to another. If a man but holds a pen in his hand,
he scribbles on any paper he can get hold of-such is the power of the pen!"
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"The more you rid yourself of upadhis, the nearer you will feel the presence of God. Rainwater
never collects on a high mound; it collects only in low land. Similarly, the water of
God's grace cannot remain on the high mound of egotism. Before God one should feel
lowly and poor.
"One should be extremely watchful. Even clothes create vanity. I notice that even a man
suffering from an enlarged spleen sings Nidhu Babu's light songs when he is dressed up in
a black-bordered cloth. There are men who spout English whenever they put on high boots.
And when an unfit person puts on an ochre cloth he becomes vain; the slightest sign of
indifference to him arouses his anger and pique."
It is plain common sense that the dress that we wear has an impact on the mind and vice versa.
Tradition is not without basis.
Dress worn should be neat,not attract attention,comfortable,suited for the occasion.
If we can understand the significance of 'Uniform'-How this has the effect of levelling the inequalities at the Physical Level and maximises the focus on the work at Hand-be it Learning (schools) or the Profession(The Army) or the Spiritual Dimension(The White or ochre or Yellow dress worn by Monks
)-we can understand the impact of wearing the proper dress when visiting Temples/churches/mosques as well.
These days people are so confused that they think that they can eat anywhere(even next to toilets),Dress anywhere(in the Locker Room or Dormitory),Sleep in the daytime ,stay awake in the Night-anything will do for nothing really matter!
Animals and other creatures fare a little better in this regard,as long as they are not wrongly influenced by the 'Civilized' Human being.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi,
I was about to drag the "comments" by writing the
following sentence:
Can any one go to Vatican churches, wearing a
codpiece?
I did not do it in the morning, lest it might be an affront on Sri Bhagavan's attire. David, you can delete this post
If you consider it as inappropriate.
Subramanian. R
R.subramanian,
"I did not do it in the morning, lest it might be an affront on Sri Bhagavan's attire."
No problem at all with this.On Sri Bhagavan ,even a codpiece looks wonderful!The stark simplicity has a dignity and majesty that is unmatched.
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from 'Day by Day with Bhagavan':
“When I was at Pachaiamman Koil I had a
small towel which was tattered and torn, almost to rags, with
threads having come out in most places. Once a cow-herd boy
made fun of this torn rag, by telling me, ‘The governor wants
this towel’. I replied, ‘Tell him I won’t give it to him!’ I never
used to spread it out in public. I used to keep it rolled into a ball
and wipe my body, hands or mouth as the occasion demanded
with the towel so rolled up into a ball. I used to wash it and dry
it in a place between two rocks, which place was never visited
by any of those who were with me. Even my cod-piece would
be tattered. When the top end used to become worn out, I would
reverse the cod-piece and use it with the bottom end topmost.
When going into the forest I would secretly mend my codpiece
with thread taken out of it with prickly pear thorn for
needle. So, nobody knew or suspected the wretched state of
my towel and cod-piece. One day somehow, one of those who
used to be with me in those days went to the place where I used
132
to dry my clothes and thus by chance discovered the state of
my clothes. They then wept that they had allowed such a state
of things, that they had committed an inexcusable sacrilege
(apachara) and so on. They had with them, in trunks, whole
pieces of cloth and so many towels, etc., all meant by them to
be used for me. Only they did not know how badly torn my
towel and cod-piece were; otherwise they would have long ago
substituted others for them.” He added, “Our Muruganar has
mentioned these facts in his songs and has described that I had
Indra for my towel, (i.e., a towel with thousand eyelets or holes)
and a cod-piece stitched by means of a prickly pear spike. But
one who does not know the facts may not be able to understand
what exactly the poet meant.”
Namaskar.
Dada J.P. Vaswani:
Sri Bhagavan said all spiritual paths could be brought under two main categories. The first is that which is known as Self Enquiry, Atma Vichara....There is another main category, which Sri Bhagavan called ,the way od self surrender, Saranagathi. " Surrender yourself to the Universal", said Sri Bhagavan, " and you will be absorbed in the Universal -- you will become the Universal" . In one of His most moving songs there are words on which I have meditated, and as I have meditated on those words, my eyes have been touched with tears. Sri Bhagavan says,
" I came to swallow you, but you have swallwed me. Now there is peace between us, O Arunachala !"
Sappadunnai charnthu unavaayan., Santhamaaip
Povan Arunachala.
Subramanian. R
Somerset Maugham commented that Bhagavan looked more dapper and elegant in his kaupina than some people did in expensive foreign suits. (He mentioned Brooks Brothers suits, which are very expensive hand-made US outfits.)
There has been a rule at Ramanasramam for many years that visitors may not wander around in kaupinas. Though it is a traditional way of dressing for ascetics, the ashram did want to encourage an outbreak of people imitating Bhagavan.
David/Friends,
Truth does not require any form of adornment.This is the lesson that we learn from the Great ones.
Likewise what is not true cannot be made up by any form of adornment.
Truth is itself the adornment-as the isAvasya Upanishad says-IsAvasyaIdam sarvam.
Truth cannot be imitated-as David says that going around in Koupinam is not encouraged in the asramam,as it will be only making a caricature of the Real thing.
Namaskar.
Devotee: I want to go to Brahmaloka. Please guide.
Bhagavan: So you want to go to Brahmaloka?
Devotee: That is what I am trying to obtain. That is what the Sastras prescribe.
Bhagavan: But where are you now?
Devotee: I am in your presence.
Bhagavan: Poor thing! You are here and now in Brahmaloka and you want to obtain it elsewhere. Know it to be Brahmaloka, where the Brahmanishta is. The Brahmanishta is the complete one and encompasses and transcends all that is manifest. He is the screen on which the entire manifestation runs as scrolls of picture. You are like a thirsty man wanting to drink water yet all the time standing neck deep in the Ganges. Let the ' I ' that wants to obtain the Brahmaloka be dead and the Brahman in you will be realized.
(T.K Sundaresa Iyer, At the Feet of Bhagavan.)
Subramanian. R
salutations to all:
Shiba/Others:
[ravi and subramanian know a ton more in tamizh than what i know or possibly can know :-) they are most welcome to add anything what they think is right to the following]
this is on a humorous note on the 'pronunciation' issue :-): as you know, bhagavAn primarily wrote in tamizh. almost all major languages of india have strong roots in sanskrt and thus are quite clearly marked with a clear sanskrt affiliation. tamizh being as ancient as sanskrt & owing to its independent origins is a bit different though! this particularly leads to a plenty of difficulties while transliterating sanskrt words into tamizh for the sake of those who know tamizh but not sanskrt and yet wish to read sanskrt verses...
now, let's take the case of somebody who has grown up reading & writing only tamizh - if such a person were asked to say 'bhagavAn ramaNa maharShi', he/she may not be able to say even a single word in the way it ought to be said!!! let alone 'ba', there is simply no aspirated 'bha' in tamizh; likewise, there is no 'ga' as well! read literally, it will appear as 'pakavAn'. of course, one may say that 'pa' and 'ka' said softly sort-of resemble 'ba' (not 'bha') and 'ga'! coming to 'ramaNa', here we do have all the letters but tamizh doesn't permit the word to start with 'ra', it has to be 'ara' (so, it's aranganAthar for ranganAthar etc.). the worst case is that of the word you've been asking for so long - "maharShi" - though in later days, a script for a few 'grantham' letters were created, strictly speaking, these are not part of tamizh. tamizh has no 'ha', no 'ru' (a vowel in sanskrt as in rShi), and no 'Sha'! even if the 'ka' is approximated for 'ha', nothing much can be done for 'rShi', for neither the vowel-ru nor the aspirated consonant-Sha find a place in tamizh! i.e., a strict tamizh speaker cannot say bhagavAn ramaNa maharShi at all :-)))
of course, let all this not lead you to assuming that tamizh is deficient. not at all, as these impediments only surface during transliterations, not otherwise. the language is beautifully complete in itself. after all, the several volumes comprising the heavenly poetry of the nAyanmArs & AzhvArs are in tamizh, in all of which one never comes across the additional letters peculiar to sanskrt! so is the case with the rest of tamizh literature, which is pretty enormous by any standards. another example is in the 'bAngla' language (wrongly said as 'bengAli'). bAngla has no 'va' or 'Na' or 'sa' but all this in no way takes away any of the phenomenal sweetness of this language. in fact, it's other name is 'mishTi bhAsha'. thAkur's (sri rAmakrshna) words are so extraordinarily sweet not only because of him but also, in a way, is due to the language he spoke in (bAngla) :-)))
Dear S,
Nice comment. Sri Bhagavan used Tamizhized Sanskrit
Words. In fact, to say that Ganapati Muni taught Him
Sanskrit is only in respect of written Sanskrit. As a typical Brahmin of pre-independent India, He knew many Sanskrit words. Naan Yar contains many Sanskrit words, written in Tamizh. E.g niddhirai, jeevarhal, paaNi, paadham, sushupdihi, jaakram, svapnam., etc., etc., In AAMM, He has used many., abhinnam (this word comes in Aanma
Vidya kirtanam also) etc., etc., He called the prose work
as Vichara Sankragam, which is fully Sanskrit.
Many words are used in other prose works also.
Only UU and UN contain a far less Sanskrit words.
As you have said He used Tamizhized words in some
works.
As you have said .such usage is less in Tirumurais.
You can however find many Sanskrir words in
Tirumandiram of Tirumoolar.
Subramanian. R
Dear Ravi, S, and others,
Saint Poet Manikkavwachagar has used a peculiar
Tamizh word for Rishi or Rushi. He says in Tiru Undiyar
(Tiruvachakam) last verae, irudi,for Rishi. For Rishi or Rushi, Rudi has been used, since there is no 'sh' in Tamizh. since Ra cannot be used as the first later,
he has added I. rudi has become Itudi. Sivaprakasam Pillai also sas, Iramanan for Ramanan in his Sri Ramana
Charitra Ahaval !
Ekasam itta irudigal pohaamal
Akasam kaval rnRu undhipara
Adkharku appalum undhiparam.
Subramanian. R
S/Friends,
Yes,what s has posted is indeed true.Talking of Transliterations,one of my Hindi friends gave this example in Hindi:
pADe par gAnA gAnA
pAte bhar khAna khAna.
In Tamil this will be transliterated in more or less identical fashion.
The First line means-Singing a song atop a Tree
and the Second line means:
Eating food to one's tummy full!
Talking of Pronunciations,a Bengali invited a punjAbi for a Bhajan(Devotional singing) at his home:
BengAli:Please come for the BhOjan.
PunjAbi(PunJabis are fond of Good food.BhOjan means food!).Alone or with family?
BengAli:Please come with family and friends.
-----------------------------------
Eventually if we understand what is meant,it is okay.
In his masterly 'The secret of the vedas',Sri aurobindo observes:
"VEDA, then, is the creation of an age anterior to our intellectual
philosophies. In that original epoch thought
proceeded by other methods than those of our logical
reasoning and speech accepted modes of expression which in
our modern habits would be inadmissible. The wisest then depended
on inner experience and the suggestions of the intuitive
mind for all knowledge that ranged beyond mankind’s ordinary
perceptions and daily activities. Their aim was illumination, not
logical conviction, their ideal the inspired seer, not the accurate
reasoner. Indian tradition has faithfully preserved this account
of the origin of the Vedas. The Rishi was not the individual composer
of the hymn, but the seer (dras.t.¯a) of an eternal truth and
an impersonal knowledge. The language of Veda itself is S´ruti, a
rhythm not composed by the intellect but heard, a divine Word
that came vibrating out of the Infinite to the inner audience of
the man who had previously made himself fit for the impersonal
knowledge. The words themselves, dr.s.t.i and ´sruti, sight and
hearing, are Vedic expressions; these and cognate words signify,
in the esoteric terminology of the hymns, revelatory knowledge
and the contents of inspiration."
Namaskar
s/shiba/friends,
Sri Aurobindo's The Secret of The vedAs continued...
"Vedic prosody
differed in many respects from the prosody of classical Sanskrit
and, especially, employed a greater freedom in the use of that
principle of euphonic combination of separate words (sandhi)
which is so peculiar a feature of the literary tongue. The Vedic
18 The Secret of the Veda
Rishis, as was natural in a living speech, followed the ear rather
than fixed rule; sometimes they combined the separate words,
sometimes they left them uncombined. But when the Veda came
to be written down, the law of euphonic combination had assumed
a much more despotic authority over the language and the
ancient text was written by the grammarians as far as possible in
consonance with its regulations. They were careful, however, to
accompany it with another text, called the Padapatha, in which
all euphonic combinations were again resolved into the original
and separate words and even the components of compound
words indicated.
It is a notable tribute to the fidelity of the ancientmemorisers
that, instead of the confusion towhich this system might so easily
have given rise, it is always perfectly easy to resolve the formal
text into the original harmonies of Vedic prosody. And very few
are the instances in which the exactness or the sound judgment
of the Padapatha can be called into question.
We have, then, as our basis a text which we can confidently
accept and which, even if we hold it in a few instances doubtful
or defective, does not at any rate call for that often licentious
labour of emendation to which some of the European classics
lend themselves. This is, to start with, a priceless advantage for
which we cannot be too grateful to the conscientiousness of the
old Indian learning."
continued...
s/Shiba/friends,
Sri Aurobindo continued....
"Myresearches first convinced me that words, like plants, like
animals, are in no sense artificial products, but growths,—living
growths of sound with certain seed-sounds as their basis. Out
of these seed-sounds develop a small number of primitive rootwords
with an immense progeny which have their successive
generations and arrange themselves in tribes, clans, families,
selective groups each having a common stock and a common
psychological history. For the factor which presided over the development
of language was the association, by the nervous mind
of primitive man, of certain general significances or rather of
certain general utilities and sense-values with articulate sounds.
The process of this association was also in no sense artificial but
natural, governed by simple and definite psychological laws.
In their beginnings language-sounds were not used to express
what we should call ideas; they were rather the vocal
equivalents of certain general sensations and emotion-values. It
was the nerves and not the intellect which created speech. To
(Note 1 I propose to deal with them in a separate work on “The Origins of Aryan Speech”.)
[See Vedic Studies with Writings on Philology, volume 14 of THE COMPLETE WORKS
OF SRI AUROBINDO.]
52 The Secret of the Veda
use Vedic symbols, Agni and Vayu, not Indra, were the original
artificers of human language. Mind has emerged out of vital
and sensational activities; intellect in man has built itself upon a
basis of sense-associations and sense-reactions. By a similar process
the intellectual use of language has developed by a natural
law out of the sensational and emotional. Words, which were
originally vital ejections full of a vague sense-potentiality, have
evolved into fixed symbols of precise intellectual significances."
continued...
s/shiba/friends,
Sri Aurobindo(The Secret of the Veda) continued...
"Moreover, the partitions made by the thought between different
senses of the same word were much less separative than
in modern speech. In English “fleet” meaning a number of ships
and “fleet” meaning swift are two different words; when we use
“fleet” in the first sense we do not think of the swiftness of the
ship’s motion, nor when we use it in the second, do we recall
the image of ships gliding rapidly over the ocean. But this was
precisely what was apt to occur in the Vedic use of language.
“Bhaga”, enjoyment, and “bhaga”, share, were for the Vedic
mind not different words, but one word which had developed
two different uses. Therefore it was easy for the Rishis to employ
it in one of the two senses with the other at the back of the mind
colouring its overt connotation or even to use it equally in both
senses at a time by a sort of figure of cumulative significance.
“Chanas” meant food but also it meant “enjoyment, pleasure”;
therefore it could be used by the Rishi to suggest to the profane
56 The Secret of the Veda
mind only the food given at the sacrifice to the gods, but for the
initiated it meant the Ananda, the joy of the divine bliss entering
into the physical consciousness and at the same time suggested
the image of the Soma-wine, at once the food of the gods and
the Vedic symbol of the Ananda.
We see everywhere this use of language dominating the
Word of the Vedic hymns. It was the great device by which
the ancient Mystics overcame the difficulty of their task. Agni
for the ordinary worshipper may have meant simply the god of
the Vedic fire, or it may have meant the principle of Heat and
Light in physical Nature, or to the most ignorant it may have
meant simply a superhuman personage, one of the many “givers
of wealth”, satisfiers of human desire. How suggest to those
capable of a deeper conception the psychological functions of
the God? The word itself fulfilled that service. For Agni meant
the Strong, it meant the Bright, or even Force, Brilliance. So
it could easily recall to the initiated, wherever it occurred, the
idea of the illumined Energy which builds up the worlds and
which exalts man to the Highest, the doer of the great work, the
Purohit of the human sacrifice."
continued...
Devotee: What is the authority dor saying that Brahman can be apprehended by the mind and at the same time it cannot be apprehended by the mind?
Bhagavan: It cannot be apprehended by the impure mind but can be apprehended by the pure mind.
Devotee: What is purebmind and what is impure mind?
Bhagavan: When the indefinable power of Brahman separates itself from Brahman and in union with the reflection of consciousness assumes various forms, it is called the impuee mind. when it becomes free from the reflection of consciousness through descrimination, it is called the pure mind. Its state of union with Brahman is its apprehension of Brahman.
( Spititual Instruction - tr. Arthur Osborne.)
Subramanian. R
Eliot C. Clark:
The Maharshi does not lecture write books. Some of His
sayings have been recorded by disciples. Commentaries
havw been written to elucidate Hia thought. But it is precisely when thought ceases in realization, that His teaching is understood. The Master too vanishes in his
Source.
Subramanian. R
A Ramana Jayanti :-
Those who view Sri Maharshi through their gross sense outfit, mark the seventh January as the sixty eighth birthday of the Master. But they sweetly forget hat the milestones in time which they count are those that mark their lives which flee, to a purposeless end.
For, Sri Maharshi sits on the banks of time and watches its flow, unmoved and unaffected. He is ageless and therefore
the birthday has no significance to Him. It reminds Him of no unfinished strings and goads Him on to no great endeavours. He is full and complete and perfect.
Sri Maharshi's birthday has significance for those who worship Him. For those who are not able to rush to Hisbfeet, it recalls a life, difficult even of intellectual comprehension, and sets them them on a track of quest. The day fills the bhaktas who sit in His presence with a disquiet as regards their balance sheets in spiritual striving and calls on them to avail themselves of the Master's grace.
What abstrange crowd is this Jayanti congregation ! It contains people who, propelled by their self destructive urge of their egos, sit before Sri Maharshi in a trance, allowing the latter's grace to bake their souls as much as possible, as quickly as possible. It includes people who stand rooted on the faith that worship of Sri Maharshi in the traditional style would itself entitle them to a place in heaven. It has, too, people, who come to seek the Master's grace for perpetuating the conquests which their ego has earned in the merry go round of life and for asking and getting more if that could be prayed for and got.
Anyway, Sri Maharshi .is the magnet of atteaction and people try to use Him in the way they want, for the purposes they want. He is the sun whose rays fall and dance on the minds and gearts that are open.
(an article by Mr. Kumar.)
Subramanian. R
"So I'm standing in the shower, wondering what to do with myself once I get done
with all the dailies. Is there something to look forward to? What state should I
attend? Should I make a huge change in routine, or resign myself to my fate, or
leave everything and everyone behind? Maybe I should just continue to "work on
myself"--you know, yank all my issues into a ruthless psychological glare (with
high-powered magnification). At the very least, this makes me believe, for a
minute, that I'm doing something worthwhile and, perhaps, rewarding. Somehow.
I hear the thinking, and I don't remember if I washed my face. There is a deep,
restless, furious churning going on. I want to run around the block. I am anything
but content. I am not happy. I don't even know, for god's sake, what happiness
is, anymore.
Some time later, drying my hair with a towel, silence falls inside. My thoughts
dissolve, and I watch them, and I am still the same, still the same. No matter
what I fill myself with or throw away or grieve over or welcome, I am still the
same. Water doesn't drown it, fire can't burn it, earth can't bury it and air
can't breathe it! Whatever this is stays undisturbed, untouched. Tension and
laxity, suffering and joy all share the same vast, spaceless space"
Maria Smith
Subramanian. R said: My son while returning from office, last evening,
brought about 500 gms. of instant cofee powder,
stating that he bought it in a special stores where
this powder is available occasionally. On seeing
that special brand, I was specifically reminded
about one oft made c,onfirmation of Sri Bhagavan.
He used to say that Arumachala is the axis of the
Earth and there must be counter axis on the other
side of the globe. Major Chadwick made some
efforts to trace a Hill and said it must be somewhere
near South America.
Please take a look at Sri Richard Clarke's account of his visit to Lima. Sri Richard is a devotee of Bhagawan.
http://richardarunachala.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/visiting-lima-peru/
Not the same Richard Clarke that spruiks his favourite rickshaw driver? Or pokes his nose into every cave needlessly disturbing the last few sadhus left in the area.
Is that the Mr Clarke who had the write up about his breakfast being served too slowly; immediately exposing the local restaurant for not being professional enough!
Samadhi :
Devotee:- Then, what is the Samadhi you speak of?
Bhagavan: In yoga the term Samadhi refers to some kind of trance and there are various kinds of it. But the Samadhi I speak of is different. It is Sahaja Samadhi. For here, you have samadhana (inner prace), you remain calm andg composed even while you are active. You realize that you are moved bmyi the deeper Real Self within. You have no worries, no anxities, no cares. For, here you come to realize that there is nothing belonging to you, the ego. And everything isndone by something with which, you get into conscious union.
( Sad darsana bhashya --Kapali Sastri)
Subramanian. R
Devotee:- What is death and what is birth ?
Bhagavan: Only the body has death and birth. And the body is illusion. There is, reality, neither birth nor death.
Devotee:- Why have we no memory of past lives?
Bhagavan:- Memory is a faculty of the mind and part of the illusion. Why do you want to remember other lives that are also illusions? If you abide as the Self, there is no past or future and not even a present since the Self is out of time
-- timeless.
Devotee:- Are the world, the mind and the body all the samebthing?
Bhagavan:- Yes. They are one and the same thing.
(Mercedes de Acoste, How I cameuy to Bhatgavan.
Mountain Path, Oct. 1988.)
Subramanian. R
More Maria Smith. I do like her writing but am put off by the mish mash of psychological terms mixed with non duality which has become common place with some advaitic teachers. "Paying attention really paid off in identifying those "core beliefs", as a
psychologist might say. I realized that when things happened (or didn't), it was
always due to the fact that I wasn't good enough. Someone looked at me and said,
"I want a divorce." Obviously, I wasn't good enough. I wanted to travel, and
lacked the funds, because I wasn't good enough at fund raising. I wanted more
peace, but wasn't good enough to deserve it. I wasn't good at saying "no" when I
needed to, or making friends when I needed them. Seeing this one-size-fits-all
ingredient was highly agitating, at first, and somehow a threat. I, I, I.
Eventually, I found myself wanting to "sit" with this agitation, trying to trust
where it would lead, what I may uncover...I just looked at it, looked at the words
and their effect on my heart and body, the memories they stirred up, the
hopelessness and helplessness engendered again and again. In the midst of this
"being with" agitation and anxiety, one day, I found the silent clearness welling
up, and just looked.
Here it is...the wordless. I am. This is it. Too much, too much"
Devotee:- Are the fruits of karma (actions) done in one
birth to be undergone in the next birth or not?
Bhagavan: Have you been born now? If really you have not been born now, why think of the next birth? Truly, karma (action) does not trouble us. It is only the sense
Of doership does. The idea of doing karma or leaving karma is false.. Think who is the doer of Karma?
The immediately preceding comment is from
me, Subramanian. R
hey jude,
I browsed through this website:
http://marias-arts.blogspot.com/2009/02/getting-intuit.html
"I'm sure I was like Narcissus, in love with the reflection of myself, feeling a kind of false power that arises when encountering the esoteric layer that few seem to aspire to (with good reason)."
Perhaps this is true-I find these writings quite self centered(too full of 'I' or lack of it!) and a touch contrived.
I miss the simplicity and clarity of a silent mind.
Namaskar.
And if, my friend, you ask me the way,
I'll tell you plainly, it is this:
to turn your face toward the world of life,
and turn your back on rank and reputation;
and, spurning outward prosperity, to bend
your back double in his service;
to part company with those who deal in words,
and take your place in the presence of the wordless.
Hakim Sanai?
When it comes to spiritual evolution no one has come in vain to Sri Ramana, nor left empty handed. Be it the gigantic Ganapati Muni, a journalist searching for India's hidden secret, the housewife, or the peasant -- all would gain immeasurably in inwardneaa by His potent power. Each would receive according to his measure and the measure itself would be multiplied manifold. Hence it is that Muruganar exhorts one not to under uLtilize Sri Bhagavan. Take full advantage of His Power, he says. To ask Sri Ramana for anything less than Self Knowledge is asking
for " old, sour gruel, in high Heaven, where nectar flows in plenty."
Subramanian. R
Devotee: Will the Master say that there is no difference between the poet, the artist, the clerk and the engineer?
Bhagavan: The difference is only in the mind.
According to the pre disposition of each, the differences exist. No two individuals are alike, due to vasanas. The ignorant mind is like the sensitive plate taking images of things as they appear. Whereas the wise man's mind is like a clean mirror.
(Crumbs from His Table.)
Subramanian. R
Devotee: Will the Master say that there is no difference between the poet, the artist, the clerk and the engineer?
Bhagavan: The difference is only in the mind.
According to the pre disposition of each, the differences exist. No two individuals are alike, due to vasanas. The ignorant mind is like the sensitive plate taking images of things as they appear. Whereas the wise man's mind is like a clean mirror.
(Crumbs from His Table.)
Subramanian. R
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Vijay had just returned from Gaya, where he had spent a long time in solitude and holy
company. He had put on the ochre robe of a monk and was in an exalted state of mind,
always indrawn. He was sitting before the Master with his head bent down, as if absorbed
in some deep thought.
Casting his benign glance on Vijay, the Master said: "Vijay, have you found your room?
"Let me tell you a parable: Once two holy men, in the course of their wanderings, entered a
city. One of them, with wondering eyes and mouth agape, was looking at the market-place,
the stalls, and the buildings, when he met his companion. The latter said: 'You seem to be
filled with wonder at the city. Where is your baggage?' He replied: 'First of all I found a
room.
I put my things in it, locked the door, and felt totally relieved. Now I am going about the
city enjoying all the fun.'
"So I am asking you, Vijay, if you have found your room. (To M. and the others) You see,
the spring in Vijay's heart has been covered all these days. Now it is open. . ."
----------------------------------
The Master gives a clear description of the Jivanmukta.He is not at all preoccupied with the 'Room' but simply enjoys the world-he seemingly suffers,he seemingly laughs and participates in the world process like anyone else(perhaps more wholeheartedly than the rest!).
The ones who know not are preoccupied with the 'Room'-They keep on describing the 'Room'- this is just self -fixation and not liberation.
Namaskar.
Devotee: But we see the arrow of karma moving even
for a Jnani.
Bhagavan: Then to your sight, there is prarabdha.
Howver, what meaning does it have, except to one who knows it or its effect? The body which you see is not the Jnani. It is hia former body or it is like cast off slough.
The serpent's slough may be blown by the wind, but the serpent itself is free, happy and unaffected.
( A Dialogue with the Maharshi - B.V. Narasimhaswami.
Mountain Path, Mountain Path, Apr. 1983.)
Subramanian. R
Hi Ravi, Agreed a jnani she is not. Silent she is not.
Still I guess I was taken with her open vulnerability.
hey jude,
Yes.I understand that she is an artist.My comments are with reference to the writings-that they are repetetive and revolve more and more on the 'I'.
Someone refered to 'Autobiography of a Jnani' and posted a link here some months back.There were only two characters in the entire writeup-one Sri Rajiv who described what he was encountering and the other was one 'Edji' who was guiding him through the steps to the 'Self'.
There was nothing but this obsession with oneself and one's experiences-a sort of complete isolation,as if nothing else existed than what was happening to him!
This sort of Self fixation was what I have refered to.
Swami Vivekananda said:
"As I grow older I find that I look more and more for greatness in little things"
One of the surest signs that we are moving in the Right direction(so to speak!)is that we are becoming less and less preoccupied(with ourselves) and more alert and aware of the things around us.We become free to observe what is around and establish the right relationship with the world.
We then tend to speak(or write)less and less about ourselves.
Namaskar.
Friends,
An excerpt from The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER: "How is it ever possible for one man to liberate another from the bondage of the
world? God alone, the Creator of this world-bewitching maya, can save men from maya.
There is no other refuge but that great Teacher, Satchidananda. How is it ever possible for
men who have not realized God or received His command, and who are not strengthened
with divine strength, to save others from the prison-house of the world?
"One day as I was passing the Panchavati on my way to the pine-grove, I heard a bullfrog
croaking. I thought it must have been seized by a snake. After some time, as I was coming
back, I could still hear its terrified croaking. I looked to see what was the matter, and found
that a water-snake had seized it. The snake could neither swallow it nor give it up. So there
was no end to the frog's suffering. I thought that had it been seized by a cobra it would have
been silenced after three croaks at the most. As it was only a water-snake, both of them had
to go through this agony. A man's ego is destroyed after three croaks, as it were, if he gets
into the clutches of a real teacher. But if the teacher is an 'unripe' one, then both the teacher
and the disciple undergo endless suffering. The disciple cannot get rid either of his ego or
of the shackles of the world. If a disciple falls into the clutches of an incompetent teacher,
he doesn't attain liberation."
Ego alone the cause of bondage
VIJAY: "Sir, why are we bound like this? Why don't we see God?"
MASTER: "Maya is nothing but the egotism of the embodied soul. This egotism has
covered everything like a veil. 'All troubles come to an end when the ego dies.' If by the
grace of God a man but once realizes that he is not the doer, then he at once becomes a
Jivanmukta. Though living in the body, he is liberated. He has nothing else to fear.
"This maya, that is to say, the ego, is like a cloud. The sun cannot be seen on account of a
thin patch of cloud; when that disappears one sees the sun. If by the grace of the guru one's
ego vanishes, then one sees God.
"Rama, who is God Himself, was only two and a half cubits ahead of Lakshmana. But
Lakshmana couldn't see Him because Sita stood between them. Lakshmana may be
compared to the jiva, and Sita to maya. Man cannot see God on account of the barrier of
maya. Just look: I am creating a barrier in front of my face with this towel. Now you can't
see me, even though I am so near. Likewise, God is the nearest of all, but we cannot see
Him on account of this covering of maya."
Namaskar
Devotee: What is the location of the heart?
Bhagavan: The heart is the centre of spiritual experience.
This is also according to the testimony of sages.
When one asks about the Heart's location, he does so because he accepts his bodily existence. Itnis true
from this point of view thar reference to the physical
body comes to be made. What is indicated, is tgevposition of the heart in relation to your identity.
You seek true consciousness. Where can you find it?
Can you attain it outside yourself? You have to find
it within. Therefore you are directed inward. The Heart
is the seat of awareness or the Consciousness itself.
(Maharshi's Gospel.)
Subramanian. R
Mr. Chadwick:
Vivekacudamani speaks of "I - I " Consciousness as
eternally shining in the Heart, but no one is aware of
it.
bhagavan: Yes, all men without exception have it, in whatever state they may be - waking, dreaming and
dreamless deep sleep -- and whether they are conscious
of it or not.
Mr. C: in the Talks section of the Sat Darsana Bhashya,
the "I"- " I" is referred to as the Absolute Consciousness,
yet Bhagavan once told me that any realization before
Sahaja Nirvikalpa is intellectual.
Bhagavan: Yes, the "I" - " I " Consciousness is the
Absolute. Though it comes before Sahaja, there is in it
as in Sahaja itself, the subtle intellect, the difference being that in the latter, the sense of forms, disappears, which
Is not the case in the former.
(A Sadhu's Reminiscences)
Subramanian. R
Ethel Merston :-
During the last years of Sri Bhagavan's life in the body, many were the lessons we learned from Him. But one, and perhaps the chief one, He never ceased, especially during the last 6 months, to hammer into us, namely, that He was not the body: The body might go, but He would not go, for where should He go to? He always was and always would be there, with us, as now. So true did He make this for us, that when I saw a corpse being carried out into the big hall, it was just a 'thing'. Bhagavan Himself was still there with us, as ever, and the corpse had nothing to do with Him. He
was still present, ready to be questioned and talked with us as before. And so well had He prepared us to realize this, that in the large crowd, many of them devotees, I only saw three people cry, as we spent the night vigilating the corpse. We just took that Bhagavan had not gone, so what need to cry for Him, or rather to cry for our " non existent"
loss?
We who knew Him in the body are not the only ones to feel His presence. Even after He left the body, people in England who never knew Him in the flesh, have told me that, after reading about Him, they have had the experience
of His actual presence near them, even of His touch, ready with His grace to help.
Subramanian. R
Prof. Subbramayya: Please do not put any appreciative reference about me in the Telugu translation of Sri
Ramana Gita.
Bhagavan:- why do you worry? To ask for the omission
of your name is as much egoism, as to desire its inclusion.
So let it be.
(Reminiscences - G.V. Subbaramayya.)
Subramanian. R
Dalai Lama supports the Anti-Corruption Movement of the common man in India
http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=743225
Join more than half a million Indians at :
www.facebook.com/indiacor
www.indiaagainstcorruption.org
Local Chapters exist in every city of the world.
Chennai :
www.iacchennai.org
Big days for round-3:
Dec 4th, 11th and D-day on 27th.
From "Scenes from Sri Ramana's Life' - an article
by B.V. Narasimha Swami -Mountain Path, Jan. 1980:--
A.S.K. Sub Judge:
Has Asat Sat Vicharana (inquiring into the Real and
the Unreal), the efficacy, per se, to lead us to the
realization of the One Imperishable?
Bhagavan:-- As propounded by all and realized by all true seekers after the Truth, the Brahma Nishta alone, if one may say, can make us know and realize it, as being of us and in us. Any amount of vivechana (discrimination) can lead us only one step forward by making us tyaginah (renouncers), by goading us to discard the abhasa (the
fleeting) and to holdc fast only to the eternal and Presence.
Subramanian. R
R.Subramanian/Friends,
An excerpt from Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
Talk 192.
Maharshi explained in the course of conversation:
Whoever desires liberation? Everyone wants only happiness -
happiness too as found in the enjoyment of the senses. This question
was asked of a Guru, and the latter answered: “Quite so. That
happiness which is the result of enjoyment by the senses is the same
as that of liberation. That desire of such liberation is one of the four
qualifications for attainment. This is common to all. So all are eligible
for this knowledge - Self-knowledge.”
In fact there may not be found any individual in the world who possesses all
the qualities in perfection necessary for an aspirant as mentioned in Yoga
Sutras, etc. Still pursuit of Self-knowledge should not be abandoned.
Everyone is the Self by his own experience. Still he is not aware, he
identifies the Self with the body and feels miserable. This is the greatest
of all mysteries. One is the Self. Why not abide as the Self and be done
with miseries?
In the beginning one has to be told that he is not the body, because he
thinks that he is the body only. Whereas he is the body and all else.
The body is only a part. Let him know it finally. He must first discern
consciousness from insentience and be the consciousness only. Later
let him realise that insentience is not apart from consciousness.
This is discrimination (viveka). The initial discrimination must persist
to the end. Its fruit is liberation.
----------------------------------
I am not sure whether the translator of the talks got this Right:
"That
happiness which is the result of enjoyment by the senses is the same
as that of liberation."
This is what The Ananda valli of taitriya upanishad says:
saisa 'nandasya mimamgumsa bhavati | yuva syatsadhu yuva 'dhyayakah | asistho dridhistho balisthah | tasyeyam prithivi sarva vittasya purna syat | sa eko manusa anandah |
"Now this is an assessment of Bliss: Let it be supposed that there is a youth, a noble youth, in the prime of age, most swift and alert, perfectly whole and resolute, most vigorous and of good learning, and that to him belongs the entire earth laden with all riches. Then we have in him one measure of human joy."
te ye satam manusa anandah | sa eko manusyagandharvanamanandah | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of human joy make up a single unit of joy which the manushya gandharva possesses. A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
te ye satam manusya-gandharvanamanandah | sa eko devagandharva-namanandah | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of joy which the manushya gandharva possesses make the joy of the deva gandharva. A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
te ye satam devagandarvanamanandah | sa ekah pitrinam ciralokalokanamanandah | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of joy which the deva gandharva possess make the joy of the Pitrus who inhabit the long enduring would. A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
continued....
R.Subramanian/Friends,
The Ananda valli of Taittriya upanishad continued...
te ye satam pitrinam satam ciralokaloka-namanandah | sa eka ajanajanam devanamanandah | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of joy which the Pitrus inhabiting the long enduring world possess make the joy of those demigods who are so by birth in the Ajana heaven (ajana devas). A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
te ye satamajanajanam devanamanandah | sa ekah karmadevanam deva namanadnah | ye karmana devanapiyanti | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of joy which the Ajana-born demigods (ajana devas) possess make the joy of those who have become demigods (karma devas) by the force of their deeds. A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
te ye satam karmadevanam devanamanandah | sa eko devanamanandah | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of joy which those demigods who have become such by their deeds (karma devas) make the joy of the controlling demigods (devas). A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
te ye satam devanamananadah | sa eka indrasyanandah | srotiyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of joy of the highest gods make the joy of Indra. A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
te ye satamindrasyanandah | sa eko brihaspateranandah | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of Indra's joy make the joy of Brihaspati. A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
te ye satam brihaspaterananda sa ekah prajapateranandah | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of Brihaspati's joy make the joy of Prajapati. A sage full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
te ye satam prajapateranandah | sa eko brahmana anandah | srotriyasya cakamahatasya |
"One hundred such units of Prajapati's joy make the bliss of Brahman. A sage who is full of revelation and free from all cravings also possesses the same joy."
sa yascayam puruse | yascasavaditye | sa ekah | sa ya evamvit | asmallokat pretya | etamannamayamatmanamupasankramati | etam manomayamatmanamupasankramati etam vijnanamayamatmanamupasankramati | etamanandamayamatmanamupasankramati | tadapyesa sloko bhavati | iti astamo 'nuvakah |
"And this bliss which is in the human being and in the yonder Sun are the same. He who comprehends fully as stated above, after departing from this world, transcends the Annamaya, Pranamaya, Manomaya, Vijnanamaya, and Anandamaya selfs. With regard to that there is this verse."
continued....
R.Subramanian/Friends,
The Ananda valli of Taittriya upanishad continued...
"yatO vachO nivartante
aprApya manasA saha
Anandam brahmanO vidwAn
na biBhethi kuthascha neti"
He who knows the bliss of Brahman,
whence (all) words recede,
as well as mind, without reaching,
he is not afraid of anyone whatsoever.
ye tam havA vana tapati
kim aham sAdhuna karavam
kim aham pApa makaravamithi
Him, verily, burns not the thought,
"Why have I not done the right?
Why have I done sin?"
sa ya evam vidwAnethe AthmAnaghuSpRnuthe
Whoso knows thus,these two,as the Self does he Revel.
ya yevam veda
such is the veda.
----------------------------------
Discrimination morphs into insight.This is what Sri Bhagavan has meant by The initial discrimination must persist
to the end. Its fruit is liberation.
Namaskar.
Dear Ravi and others,
I am happy to see your comments, with quotes from
Anandavalli of Taitt. Up. Nochur Venkataraman used
to say about Puthana, the demoness, whose breast
Krishna suckled. She cries: O enough, enough, is
enough. Then she gets liberation. Munja munja...
Slokam from Srimad Bhagavatam. When she said enough, enough, leave, he left her snd she attained liberation!
That is the point. When one says I don' want anything,
(I only want Feedom) mumukshtvam dawns. Nice.
Regarding the sensory enjoyments, Sri Bhagavan has
said in Who am I? Even when you get things that you want, even when something bad happens to the person or
object that you hate, mind becmes antarmukham and
enjoys, atma sukham. Perhaps, I am not sure the translator has used in that sense.
Subramanian. R
Dear friends,
Today I saw a movie titled the Awakening, basred on the real life of one Dr. Oliver Sacks. Dr. Sacks had done research on the behavior of cerebral palsy patients and he had a run a 'home' for these patients. His administration
of el dopa, a drug, was only partially sucessful and many patients had relapse of the syndrome. The doctors of U.S
and U.K did not approve his studies. He is a British Jew,
who moved to U.S. Dr. Sacks has also written many books.
I want members who have read Dr. Sacks ' books to write
more about him.
salutations to all:
Ravi/Others:
very nice comment from the taittiriya upaniShad. though beyond measure, yet the analogies gives a measure of the bliss bhagavAn and thAkur were 'in' :-) yet i'd like to add here that quite often, we tend to relish reading about bliss than longing for it! what use is that reading if it can't lead us to longing? what's the point in feeling happy about how blissful bhagavAn was! it of course serves the purpose of being an irrefutable pointer to the astonishing plausibility of such an 'Ananda' but it also ends there...
Devotee:- It is hardto conveive God, the formless,
giving rise to forms.
Bhagavan:- Why hard? Does not your mind remain
formless, whenbyou do not perceive or think, say, in deep sleep, in samadhi or in swoon? And does it not create space and relationships when it thinks and impels your body to act? Just as your mind devises and your body executes in one homogeneous, automatic act, so automatic, in fact, that most people are not aware of the process, so does the divine intelligence devise and plan and his energy automatically and spontaneously acts -- the thought and the act avcre one integral whole. This creative energy which is implicit in pure intelligence is called by various names, one of hich is Maya or Sakti, tge Creator
of forms or Image.
S.S. Cohen, Giru Ramana.
Subramanian. R
Friends,
An excerpt from The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
HOST: "Revered sir, what is the way for us?"
MASTER: "Chanting the name and glories of God, living in the company of holy men, and
earnestly praying to God."
HOST: "Please bless me, sir, that I may pay less and less attention to worldly things."
MASTER (smiling): "How much attention do you give to the world? Fifty per cent?"
(Laughter.)
HOST: "You know that, sir. We cannot achieve anything without the grace of a holy person
like yourself."
MASTER: "If you please God, everyone will be pleased. It is God alone that exists in the
heart of the holy man."
HOST: "Nothing, of course, remains unrealized when one attains God. If a man attains
God, he can give up everything else. If a man gets a rupee, he gives up the joy of a penny."
MASTER: "A little spiritual discipline is necessary. Through the practice of discipline one
gradually obtains divine joy. Suppose a jar with money inside is hidden deep under the
earth and someone wants to possess it. In that case he must take the trouble of digging for
it. As he digs, he perspires. After much digging the spade strikes the metal jar. He feels a
thrill at the sound. The more sound the spade makes, striking against the jar, the more joy
he feels. "Pray to Rama. Meditate on Him. He will certainly provide you with everything."
Namaskar.
s/Friends,
I am not sure that Ananda(as it is understood in common parlance) is desirable as much as PoorNathva(Wholeness).Ananda may be a
byproduct and to strive after it and pursue it as an end in itself is an illusion.
A seeker should stay on the path-even if any sort of attainment seems far far away.Suppose some 'all knowing' being comes and tells him(hypothetical!)-'All your efforts are futile.You are not cut out for this',the seeker will still say-'It does not matter.It is better to fail trying the Right thing,rather than give up.There is nothing else worth living for.'.
As Sri Ramakrishna says wonderfully:
Sign of a true devotee
"Those who have passionate love for God do not say any such thing as: 'O brother, how
strict I have been about food! But what have I achieved?' New farmers give up cultivating
if their fields do not yield any crops. But hereditary farmers will continue to cultivate their
fields whether they get a crop or not. Their fathers and grandfathers were farmers; they
know that they too must accept farming as their means of livelihood."
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi/Others:
you said ["...I am not sure that Ananda(as it is understood in common parlance) is desirable as much as PoorNathva(Wholeness). Ananda may be a byproduct and to strive after it and pursue it as an end in itself is an illusion...."]
if you were to ask anyone, most people neither will connect nor can relate to something like 'wholeness'! :-) 'wholeness' is as abstract & ambiguous as 'reality'. on the other hand, everybody, no matter who, does understand 'happiness' in their own little way. in fact, everything what people do or don't do is only in pursuit of a happiness that is unalloyed & unchanging, and this doesn't require a bhagavAn or a thAkur to confirm, isn't it? bhagavAn & thAkur are the two people who i revere the most but yet what attests to my experience obviously would be more critical than bhagavAn or thAkur :-) nearly no one has the faintest idea of 'wholeness' to think of seeking it, for one can't seek something about which one is utterly clueless. does your 'lover of god' long for god with 'wholeness' in mind? of course, not :-)))
S/Friends,
'Wholeness' is to be without any want or desires;not to be in need of anything whatsoever-To be free of wants and desires.It is the Natural state of the mind when it is purged of all accretions and acquisitions.
There is then no division between what one has and what one desires to have.This is 'wholeness'(Fullness) when the mind is still.
Namaskar.
s/Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"The Master conversed with Mahimacharan.
MASTER: "It will be very good if you can practise unselfish love for God. A man who has
such love says: 'O Lord, I do not seek salvation, fame, wealth, or cure of disease. None of
these do I seek. I want only Thee.' Many are the people who come to a rich man with
various desires. But if someone comes to him simply out of love, not wanting any favour,
then the rich man feels attracted to him. Prahlada had this unselfish love, this pure love for
God without any worldly end."
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi/Others:
["...'Wholeness' is to be without any want or desires;not to be in need of anything whatsoever..."]
the point here is who wants to be free of all wants & desires? if so, for what? (for a happiness that is unadulterated?) where is the motivation to be in that inert state of so-called 'no wants & no desires'? if you were to say that brahman is 'purNam', my question is who wants to be brahman in the first place? neither the seeker of jnAna nor bhakti. in the former, to postulate that 'brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati' is an after-effect of realisation and not the motivator of it; for the latter, question of 'becoming' god never arises :-). even all this be agreed hypothetically, what about those (like me) who don't believe in a so-called god or brahman? surely, any such belief can't be a pre-requisite. the only pursuit everybody can relate to without any dissent is the quest for happiness. to have nothing but love for god too is after all only a desire, however noble it might be. i'm interested to know if there is any direct instance (no indirect inferences) where bhagavAn or thAkur advocate seeking wholeness over happiness, the latter being an 'illusion' as you claim it to be? when i see bhagavAn or thAkur, what strikes me at all times is their state of bliss (wholeness, or as you define it as absence of desires or wants, doesn't cross my mind at all!), and it is solely this that drives me :-)))
s/friends,
"where is the motivation to be in that inert state of so-called 'no wants & no desires'?"
Why presume that it is an inert State!
"when i see bhagavAn or thAkur, what strikes me at all times is their state of bliss"
Is this True?For me it is their Equanimity,state of unruffled mind,perfect synchronization of thought and action-these are of course only the outer perspective.
"to have nothing but love for god too is after all only a desire"
Love is a state of desirelessness.Love is God.
"i'm interested to know if there is any direct instance (no indirect inferences) where bhagavAn or thAkur advocate seeking wholeness over happiness"
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Let me tell you something else. Go beyond knowledge and ignorance. People say that such
and such a one is a jnani; but in reality it is not so. Vasishtha was a great jnani, but even
he was stricken with grief on account of the death of his sons. At this Lakshmana said to
Rama: 'This is amazing, Rama. Even Vasishtha is so grief-stricken!' Rama said: 'Brother,
he who has knowledge has ignorance as well. He who is aware of light is also aware of
darkness. He who knows good also knows bad. He who knows happiness also know
misery. Brother, go beyond duality, beyond pleasure and pain, beyond knowledge and
ignorance.' (To Narendra) So I am asking you to go beyond both knowledge and
ignorance."
Here is another excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Narendra:Yesterday I saw him [meaning the Master] upstairs and told him
about it. I said to him: 'All the others have had their realization; please give me some. All
have succeeded; shall I alone remain unsatisfied?' "
M: "What did he say to you?"
NARENDRA: "He said: 'Why don't you settle your family affairs first and then come to
me? You will get everything. What do you want?' I replied, 'It is my desire to remain
absorbed in samadhi continually for three or four days, only once in a while coming down
to the sense plane to eat a little food.' Thereupon he said to me: 'You are a very small minded
person. There is a state higher even than that. "All that exists art Thou" -it is you
who sing that song.'"
-----------------------------------
In tamil the word is niRaivu-fullness.As the Great Saint AndAl opens her Hymn,the wonderful ThiruppAvai(the Month of MArgazhi is approaching):
"mArghazhith ThingaL madhi niRaindha nannAL"
In this the month of mArghazhi and on this the day auspicious
when the moon is in full Bloom
(The Esoteric meaning is that 'The Good Day (nan nAL) when 'madhi') or mind is 'niRaindha' or full.)
Namaskar.
s/Friends,
The simple refutal of Happiness as a goal is this-can a man be happy if his children are not happy?can an individual be happy when others around him are not?
our Happiness is inextricably bound with the Happiness of others around us.
The pursuit of happiness at an individual level is flawed and a chimera.To desire that is petty.
Namaskar.
Oliver Sacks is a professor of psychiatry and neurology. Oliver was the youngest of four children born to a North London Jewish couple. I've read two of his books 'Awakenings' and 'The man who mistook his wife for a hat'. His books are fascinating and he's obviously a brilliant man. His entire life Sacks has had a condition known as 'face blindness'
Sacks has never married or lived with anyone and says that he is celibate.
He books and interviews show great insight and understanding of the human mind.
Anonymous,
I have not read or heard about Oliver Sacks.Thanks for mentioning-Browsing the few pages on Amazon's site-
http://www.amazon.com/Awakenings-ebook/dp/B00569FP8M/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322961567&sr=1-4#reader_B00569FP8M
"A few of the patients are still alive-we have known each other for 24 years now.But those who have died are in some sense not dead-their unclosed charts,their letters ,still face me as I write.They still live for me, in some personal way.They were not only patientsbut teachers and friends,and the years that I spent with them were the most significant of my life.I want something of their lives,their presence,to be preserved and live for others,as exemplars of human predicament and survival.This is the testimony,the only testimony ,of a unique event-but one which may become an allegory for us all."
Looks like a deeply sensitive compassionate account.
Reminds me of the wonderful autobiography -'One Life' by Dr Christian Barnard,the South African Doctor who did the First Heart Transplant.
To be intensely Human is to be Divine.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi/others:
["...Is this True?For me it is their Equanimity,state of unruffled mind,perfect synchronization of thought and action-these are of course only the outer perspective.
..."]
all of the above is the result of they being in bliss, not the other way around :-))) the 'happiness' you are referring to as being influenced by others' happiness is subject to the alternating cycle of joy and misery, and that's of course petty... your reference to thAkur admonishing svAmiji is to do with the latter wanting 'nirvikalpa samAdhi' (precisely a state of no wants & no desires!), and has got nothing to do with 'Ananda'. i'm here talking of happiness as 'Ananda'... bhagavAn is categorical in his opening statements in nAn yAr:
"As all living beings desire to be happy always, without misery, as in the case of everyone there
is observed supreme love for one’s self, and as happiness alone is the cause for love..."
this is the primary thing that drives anybody & everybody in whatever they do or don't do. please ask anybody around you: 'do you want wholeness or happiness?' you will be pleasantly surprised :-))) only empty scholars talk about a 'wholeness' about which they know next to nothing in any case :-))) of course, ravi sir, you are free to be in your 'wholeness' of illusion... hahahaha
Dr. Oliver Sacks:
Glad for responses for my comment last evening.
I have started reading the Man who mistook his wife
for a hat, one of the many books of Dr. Oliver Sacks.
This was brought from HK Library by my son last
Evening.
I also googled and got some information
about the doctor. He is a controversial doctor. But
he was given some honours by both British and
American govts.
Subramanian. R
Chadwick: Dreams are disconnected, while waking
experience goes on from where it left off and is
admitted by all to be more or less continuous.
Bhagavan:- Do you say that in your dreams? They
seemed perfectly consistent and real to you then.
It is only now, in your waking state that you question the reality of the experience. This is not logical,... Raise
your doubts when in the dream state itself. You do not
question the waking state when you are awake, you accept it, in the wbay you accept your dreams. Go beyond both states, all three states including deep sleep, and study them from thst point of view. You now study one limitation from the point of view of another limitation. Could anything be more absurd? Go beyond all limitations, then come here with your doubts.
Subramanian. R
“'Wholeness' is to be without any want or desires; not to be in need of anything whatsoever - to be free of wants and desires. It is the natural state of the mind when it is purged of all accretions and acquisitions.”
Wholeness is happiness. Put well by Rousseau in his third autobiography, “Reveries of a Solitary Walker”;
“If there is a state where the soul can find a resting-place secure enough to establish itself and concentrate its entire being there, with no need to remember the past or reach into the future, where time is nothing to it, where the present runs on indefinitely but this duration goes unnoticed, with no sign of the passing of time, and no other feeling of deprivation or enjoyment, pleasure or pain, desire or fear than the simple feeling of existence, a feeling that fills our soul entirely, as long as this state lasts, we can call ourselves happy, not with a poor, incomplete and relative happiness such as we find in the pleasures of life, but with a sufficient, complete and perfect happiness which leaves no emptiness to be filled in the soul.”
Mrs. J :-
What is the difference between ego and the Self?
Bhagavan:- That which comes and goes , rises and sets, is born and dies is the ego. That which always abides never changes and is devoid of qualities is the Self.
Mrs. J:-
I suppose one has to sublimate the ego self into the trueg Self.
Bhagavan:- The ego self does not exist at all.
Mrs. J:-
Then why does it give rise to so much trouble? Look at the havoc itbhas created among nations and people.
Bhagavan:-
To whom is tge trouble? The trouble is also imagined. Pain and pleasure are to the ego, which is itself imagined. When enquiry is done into the naturebof the ego, the illusion of pleasure and pain along with the ego disappears. The Self,
their source alone remains.
Subramanian. R
s/friends,
"of course, ravi sir, you are free to be in your 'wholeness' of illusion... hahahaha"
yes,happy with that!:)
"'do you want wholeness or happiness?' you will be pleasantly surprised :-)))
Just ask the next question-What is Happiness?
I am reminded of the Mulla Nasrudeen story-Mulla decides that there is no Happiness whatsoever in Life.He wants to know the secret of Happiness and to grasp it once for all.He gives his accumulations in Charity,save a couple of clothes and some food,which he ties into a bundle and sets forth to meet a 'Trusted' Master.As he approaches his Master's house after a weary journey,the Master comes forward as if to Greet him-and all in a flash grabs the bundle from Mullah and disappears down the labrynthine lanes.Mullah totally caught by surprise gives a hot chase but the 'Master'(now 'Monster'!)is too quick for him and gets away.Mullah decides to return to the house of the 'Robber' and plans to ambush him when he returns there!Night came and mullah spots a figure carrying a bundle and stealthily entering the House.Without losing time Mullah pounces and grabs the bundle!What a relief to get back the Treasure lost!As Mullah checked the bundle to make sure that nothing was lost,he heaved a sigh of relief and exclaimed 'Thank God!Everything is intact.'.
The 'thief' asked him-'Are you happy now!'.Mullah realised that he was indeed 'happy' that he had got back what he had lost.
'Yes,I am.You cheat,you almost drove me crazy.I am Happy now'.
The Master told Mullah-'You came in search of Happiness.Now you have found it!.What is it that you have gained that has made you happy?'
Such is the pursuit of Happiness-Imagine a problem and try to solve the same-voila!Happiness!The sort of happiness understood in common parlance is akin to this.The other variant will be 'getting' what one desires.
This is why the Sages talk about Mumukshutva-Intense Desire for Freedom(From Bondage and not pursuit of Happiness!).Freedom or Bliss cannot be pursued as a goal-Getting rid of Bondage(by identifying the same)is what is recommended.
This is why the Scriptures declare-
'Na karmanAna na PrajayA danena thyagenaike amritatvamAnasu:'
Unless one is prepared to give up the 'Fraction' and all the baggage that go with that(Happiness and misery,et all)-one will be like mulla Nasrudeen only.
more Later!:)
Namaskar.
harijan,
"Wholeness is happiness. Put well by Rousseau in his third autobiography, “Reveries of a Solitary Walker”;
Yes.I have not read Rousseau-but the passage that you have quoted is quite revealing.
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi/Harijan:
["...he sort of happiness understood in common parlance is akin to this...."]
i'd already very clearly clarified that i neither referred nor confined what i said to the oscillations of joy & misery. as i've been telling, and for one last time, everybody understands 'happiness', no matter how incomplete or un-whole it may be :-) it's just that that happiness doesn't endure. hence, everyone in everything they do or don't is in quest of a happiness that never changes. it's only in this context, can one bring in something like wholeness and say everyone wants a wholesome unchanging happiness. without this, all talk of wholeness is just a grand reproduction of what others have said!
what wholeness does anyone experience, and where? anyone anyday will be glad to be happy but not whole instead of being whole and not happy. 'wholeness' is a by-product of 'happiness' :-) the identification of 'wholeness' with 'happiness' what you folks have been saying is something i'm not refuting, it's just that i don't know (perhaps i may not be wrong to suppose neither do you folks understand the equivalence, which isn't the same as 'quoting' anbody). even mathematics can neither be complete nor be consistent, i.e, 'whole'. as regards the freedom from bondage, everyone wants to be free of bondage only to be happy, not for some idealistic bookish wholeness. in any case, i don't care much for what your scriptures have to say :-) for me, all scriptures derive their meaning from bhagavAn & thAkur, not the other way...
let me repeat bhagavAn's opening lines in nAn yAr, where he never talks of wholeness as the purpose, and which i hope you will not torture the text to suit your convenience :-)
["As all living beings desire to be happy always, without misery, as in the case of everyone there is observed supreme love for one’s self, and as happiness alone is the cause for love, in order to
gain that happiness which is one’s nature and which is experienced in the state of deep sleep where there is no mind, one should know one’s self."]
i rest my case. perhaps, i'm saying all this because i'm already happy most of the time, if not at all times, and hence can only relate to Anandam :-))) in bhagavAn & thAkur i see 'purNAnandam' (here too it's Anandam whose adjective is purNa, the latter by itself bereft of any meaning) :-) the so-called brahman too is defined as 'sat-chit-Anandam' or 'asti-bhAti-priyam' :-)))
s,
"everybody understands 'happiness', no matter how incomplete or un-whole it may be :-) it's just that that happiness doesn't endure."
It is not a question of just endurance!If everyone understands what happiness is ,there should be no problem abiding in it.This is the problem. one is only aware of Lack of something-what many feel as void or boredom.This void is not filled by either the 'joy' or the 'sorrow' or any other phase of the mind.It may only be covered for some time.One then pursues "happiness".and this is elusive.
This is where 'fulfillment' comes in-and this does not brook any comparison with anything whatsoever-No benchmarks like Bhagavan or Thakur!
Happiness is where this void(which everyone knows and understands!)is not.
'Desire for happiness' only indicates lack of it!This is the Reason that Sri Bhagavan is saying that one should know oneself to gain it(so to say!).This happiness cannot be inferred from 'another' ,be it Thakur or Bhagavan!
As long as we understand what Happiness is and what it is not ,it does not matter how we call it-Fulfilment,Ananda or Bliss(although these words have a connotation of a 'High'!),Delight,etc.
Words like unchanging,enduring,unalloyed etc are poor substitutes for poornathva.
Namaskar.
One Buddha Bhikshu (along with R. Raphael Hurst)
meeting Sri Bhagavan.
Bhikshu:- The world is in state of degeneration. It is
getting constantly worse, spiritually, morally, intellectually in every way. Will a spiritual teacher comebtonsave itbfrom chaos?
Maharshi:- Inevitably. When the goodness declines and wrong prevails, He comes to re-instate goodness. The world is neither too good nor too bad. It is a mixture og the two. Unmixed happinessband unmixed sorrow are not found in the world. The world always needs God and God always comes.
Bhikshu:- Will He be born in the Eastg or West?
The Maharshi laughed at the question but did not answer it.
Bhikshu:- ( a little while later). Does the world progress now?
Maharshi:- If we progress, the world progresses. As you are so is the world. Without understanding the Self, what is the use of understandging the world? Open your heart and see the world through the eyes of the truebSelf. Tear aside the veils and see the D ivine Majesty of your own Self.
Subramanian. R
I would like to refer to a reminiscence of Swami Siddeswarananda. The Swami asked Sri Ramana about
the cosmic vision referred to by the Saint Nammazhwar in some of his verses. Hardly had Sri Ramana read a couple of lines, tears started trickling down His face. There was an atmosphere of love all around. For two or three hours, He remained silent, the rest of the poem unread, the book on His knee, His open, filled with divine emotion. As we read such accounts our hairs stans on end. We wonder at the naturalness of Sri Bhagavan. Gentle in speech, childlike in the sense of wonder and innocence, ever fresh, He captivates our hearts.
(Old devotees' Papers)
Subramanian. R
Yogi Krishnapremi ;-
When, in the evening, I entered the Hall where the Maharshi reclines daily on His couch, I sat down in silence, along with others, to meditate at His feet. But believe it or not, Dilip, as soon as I sat down I heard a voice questioning me over and over again:- Who are you?
Who are you? Who are you? I tried hard to ignore it, but it went on and on like an inportunste visitor who, knocking
at the door, insisted on being admitted. So in the end, I had to formulate an answer. I am Krisna's servant...At once the question changed, like a shape-changer, into: Who is Krishna? I answered:-Nanda's son. No use. The question
was repeated. Who is Krishna?
I thought up the answers like:- He is an avatar. The One in all. Resident of every heart....and so on. But the questioning wouldy not cease, till at last, I gave up, left the
Hall and returned, deeply disturbed, to meditate. But I had no peace. The voice gave me no respite, till, in the end
I had to evoke Radharani, who asked me very simply what answers I had given. I told her but she shook hervhead and then at last, revealed it to me.
She did?....Dilip (Kumar Roy) asked, thrilled..
No Dilip, don't ask me. I won't tell you, for you will tell others.
Next morning, when I sat down again at His blessed feet,
The Maharshi suddenly gave me a lightning glance and smiled. I knew at once, beond the shadow of a doubt, thst He was the aythor of it all and that He also knew that I had
divine His part correctly.
Then I closed my eyes to meditate, a deep peace descended into me and settled likeva block of ice as ut were, till my every cell was numb with an exquisite bliss.
As I meditated it wacs borne home to me, through the mystic silence thst through this peace stemmed ultimately
from the Lord Himself. Doesn't He say in Gita that He Himself is the primal source of all experience, the peace in this instance was transmitted through His beloved agent,
Sri Maharshi.
(from Krishnapremi's letter to Dilip Kumar Roy.)
Subramanian. R
Yogi Krishnapremi:-
As I went on imbibing this delectable peace, meditating at His feet, I suddenly took into my head to return the
compliment and prod Him with a question in silence:
And who are You, may I humbly seek?
It so happened that the next moment I opened my eyes
Involuntarily, when, lo and behold, I found His dias
empty!
Yes, Dilip, you will find it hard to believe....
There was the diasvwhere He had presided two seconds
before, but in the twinkling of an eyw, as it were, He
Had vanished, just melted into thin air! I closed my eyes
once more and then, as I looked again, lo, He was there
reclining tranquil and beneficent likevLord Siva Himself !
A momentary smike flickered on His lips as He have me a meaningful glance and then turned towards thevwindow, as
was His wont.
Dilip writes further --
I caught my breath, " Marvellous ! "
In all conscience, he (Krishnapremi) he bowed his head,
" He is a Mahayogi, as Sri Aurobindo told you."
I hazarded, " That He is beyond Nam-Rup, " the
Nameless and the Formless manifesting Himself,
through name and form."
He answered reflectively, " that is right, the one beyond
all Maya, the Star beyond all phantoms, the Reality beyond
the emphemera, the Silence beyond all songs -- you may
exploit any simile you fancy. Personally I look upon it as a sign of His Grace, His giving me the answer in a way only He could have given. He is compassion itself, don't you
know?"
(from the conversation between Krishnapremi and
Dilip Kumar Roy, as recorded by the latter.)
Subramanian. R
Devotee:- Should we not have patriotism and should we not serve our country?
Bhagavan:- First be what you are. Therein lies all truth
and happiness. While trying to become something else
(or some one else), the ego gets in. You think that the world will be conquered by your power, but when you turn inwards towards the Self, you will know that a higher power is working everywhere.
(Swami Madhavatirtha - Conversations with the Maharshi
-- Mountain Path, Jan 1981.)
Subramanian. R
Rangan once told Sri Bhagavan:-
Bhagavan ! I am disgusted with life. I want to come
here like you and live peacefully.
Sri Bhagavan:-
The Hill looks very nice when you look at it from afar.
You will know the difficulties only when you come here.
Live your own life and clear up the prarabdha. Do
not try to copy some one else's life. That would be more difficult for you. Live your own life and be as you are.
(Old Devotees' Papers. )
Subramanian. R
A large mountain looked at the little squirrel
and asked with pride:-
How are you, little fellow?
The squirrel replied with humility:-
Sir, I am fine. No doubt I am small and insignificant
in this world. But remember, Sir, I can neither carry
a large forest on my back, nor can you crack a nut.
What is this talk of big and small?
Subramanian. R
Friends,
An excerpt from 'Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi'(Talk 478):
"D.: How to experience Bliss?
M.: To be free from thinking “I am now out of Bliss”.
D.: That is to say free from modes of mind.
M.: To be with only one mode of mind to the exclusion of others.
D.: But Bliss must be experienced.
M.: Bliss consists in not forgetting your being. How can you be
otherwise than what you really are? It is also to be the Seat of
Love. Love is Bliss. Here the Seat is not different from Love."
----------------------------------
Having seemingly disagreed with our friend s,I agree with him in equal measure as well!
Does Sri Bhagavan contradict himself when now he says 'Love is Bliss' and in that passage from nAn yAr he has said-"as in the case of everyone there is observed supreme love for one’s self, and as happiness alone is the cause for love"
More of it later.
Namaskar.
There is one dhyana sloka for invoking Sri Bhagavan,
where it runs - Arunachala hrth-sphurti swarupaanugrahat-
mane, Namo Bhagavathe dhrshtraya Sri Ramanaaya
nirantharam. Here the hruth-sphurti, the Effulgence
of Heart, is His Nature and Grace.
To be in natural state, is to be graceful. The Seat is
Grace. The Seat is Bliss. Grace and Bliss go together,
one being the other side of another. Arunachala's
Grace showered Bliss on Ramana. Sri Ramana's
Grace confers Bliss on mature devotees. Grace is
of course ever there. But Bliss can be experienced only
In maturity, whose ego does not obstruct the Grace.
Subramanian. R
Sri Ramana Jayanti Reminiscences:-
(Alan Chadwick)
At the Jayanti, it is the human side of Sri Bhagavan
that we especially tend to emphasize. For it is essentially at a family affair. Then the children flock to their father,
In thousands to pay their homage and offer their congratulations at the beginning of a new year of his blessed life. And we silently pray to him that his physical frame may remain with us for many more years, for like
children, we feel the need for the bodily presence of our beloved father. And we rejoice to see that the number of devotees grow and to realize that his word of hopebis spreading its influence year by year, until now there is no quarter of the globe, where His name is not known.
Subramanian. R
Friends,
"as in the case of everyone there is observed supreme love for one’s self, and as happiness alone is the cause for love"
What is the 'Love' and 'happiness' that Sri Bhagavan is referring to in this opening long winding sentence in nAn yAr?
The 'Love' that he is referring to is love of 'oneself' above all other persons and objects.It is what makes one grab a seat in the bus ahead of others.
The reason for this is that one wants to be 'Happy'(comfortable or at ease) and avoid the misery of having to stand in a crowded bus.
Now let us consider that one is traveling with someone 'dear' to oneself(a child or spouse or parent)-One will grab the seat for the 'Dear'(to) one(Love of oneself!)The Reason being that it gives greater happiness that offsets the discomfort of oneself having to stand.
Here it is understandable that 'love of the dear one' is synonymous with the 'Happiness derived'.
In this second case,the Love and Happiness are at a relatively deeper level.
Both the 'Love' and 'Happiness' referred to is what is understood in common parlance-i.e Egoistic love and Happiness.
Sri Bhagavan then goes onto examine what is behind this instinct.He refers to the Happiness which is experienced in deep sleep when the mind subsides, that points to a possibility of discovering it in the waking state-and posits self enquiry as a means of Sadhana.
continued....
Devotee:- You have said that a liberated person can by his natural oenance become intangible, invisible, can assume any form.....
Bhagavan:- He is the most competent for such developments. But you canmot judge the Jnani by these
developments, as they are not signs of true knowledge
which essentially consists in possessing an eye of equality.
(Kapali Sastri -Sad Darsana Bhashya and Talks with
Sri Ramana Maharshi.)
Subramanian. R
Devotee:- Whenever I worship God with name and form,
I feel tempted to think whether I am not wrong in doing so, as that would be limiting the limitless, giving form to the formless. At the same time, I feel I am not constant in my adherence to worship of God without form.
Bhagavan;- As long as you respond to a name, what objection could there be to your worshipping a God with name or form? Worship god with or without form till you know who you are.
(Sri Ramananda Swarnagiri -Crumbs From His Table.)
Subramanian. R
Friends,
Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
A DEVOTEE: "Has God a form or is He formless?"
MASTER: "God has form and, again, He is formless. Once upon a time a sannyasi entered
the temple of Jagannath . As he looked at the holy image he debated within himself whether
God had a form or was formless. He passed his staff from left to right to feel whether it
touched the image. The staff touched nothing. He understood that there was no image
before him; he concluded that God was formless. Next he passed the staff from right to left.
It touched the image. The sannyasi understood that God had form. Thus he realized that
God has form and, again, is formless.
"But it is extremely difficult to understand this. Naturally the doubt arises in the mind: if
God is formless, how then can He have form? Further, if He has a form, why does He have
so many forms?"
DOCTOR: "God has created all these forms in the world; therefore He Himself has a form.
Again, He has created the mind; therefore He is formless. It is possible for God to be
everything."
Personal God and Impersonal Truth
MASTER: "These things do not become clear until one has realized God. He assumes
different forms and reveals Himself in different ways for the sake of His devotees. A man
kept a solution of dye in a tub. Many people came to him to have their clothes dyed. He
would ask a customer, 'What colour should you like to have your cloth dyed?' If the
customer wanted red, then the man would dip the cloth in the tub and say, 'Here is your
cloth dyed red.' If another customer wanted his cloth dyed yellow, the man would dip his
cloth in the same tub and say, 'Here is your cloth dyed yellow.' If a customer wanted his
cloth dyed blue, the man would dip it in the same tub and say, 'Here is your cloth dyed
blue.' Thus he would dye the clothes of his customers different colours, dipping them all in
the same solution. One of the customers watched all this with amazement. The man asked
him, 'Well? What colour do you want for your cloth?' The customer said, 'Brother, dye my
cloth the colour of the dye in your tub.' (Laughter.)
Namaskar.
Friends,
Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Meditation on God with form
"How are you getting along with your meditation nowadays? What aspect of God appeals
to your mind - with form or without form?"
M: "Sir, now I can't fix my mind on God with form. On the other hand, I can't concentrate
steadily on God without form."
MASTER: "Now you see that the mind cannot be fixed, all of a sudden, on the formless
aspect of God. It is wise to think of God with form during the primary stages."
M: "Do you mean to suggest that one should meditate on clay images?"
MASTER: "Why clay? These images are the embodiments of Consciousness."
M: "Even so, one must think of hands, feet, and the other parts of body. But again, I realize
that the mind cannot be concentrated unless one meditates, in the beginning, on God with
form. You have told me so. Well, God can easily assume different forms. May one meditate
on the form of one's own mother?"
MASTER: "Yes, the mother should be adored. She is indeed an embodiment of Brahman."
M. sat in silence. After a few minutes he asked the Master: "What does one feel while
thinking of God without form? Isn't it possible to describe it?" After some reflection, the
Master said, "Do you know what it is like?" He remained silent a moment and then said a
few words to M. about one's experiences at the time of the vision of God with and without
form.
MASTER: "You see, one must practise spiritual discipline to understand this correctly.
Suppose, there are treasures in a room. If you want to see them and lay hold of them, you
must take the trouble to get the key and unlock the door. After that you must take the
treasures out. But suppose the room is locked, and standing outside the door you say to
yourself: 'Here I have opened the door. Now I have broken the lock of the chest. Now I
have taken out the treasure.' Such brooding near the door will not enable you to achieve
anything. You must practise discipline."
Namaskar.
Devotee:- But you have always laid great stress on Mounam, (silecnce)........
Bhagavan:- Yes, I have. But silence does not mean
negation of activity or stagnant inertness. The silence
of the Self is ever there. It is a supreme Peace immtable like a rock that supports all your activities, in fact, adll movements. It is that in which God and all muktapurushas
are rooted.
(Kapali Sastri --Sar Daesana Bhashya and Talks with
Sri Ramana Maharshi.)
Subramanian. R
I think most of you would know who Perelman is nevertheless he is worth another mention. Russian mathematician Grigori Perelman solved the seemingly unsolvable Poincaré conjecture, a 100-year-old problem to prove that any shape without a hole can be formed into a sphere.
The problem was one of the seven listed on Cambridge, Massachusetts' Clay Mathematics Institute's Millennium Prize list.
The bounty on such a solution? One million dollars and the Fields Medal, math's equivalent of the Nobel Prize.
Considered one of the world's smartest men, Perelman published two proofs of the theorem in 2002 and 2003. It took until last year for a team of mathematicians to validate his results.
While his work was celebrated, he rejected any accolades. The reclusive genius is only now talking about why he turned down the money.
After years of avoiding interviews, he has agreed to participate in a documentary about three of the world's major mathematical schools.
Despite rumours of madman-esque reclusiveness and self-imposed poverty, a journalist who interviewed Perelman says previous media coverage on the man has misrepresented him:
"Perelman produces an impression of an absolutely sane, healthy, adequate and normal person. ... What the media say and write about him — that he is off his head — all of that is nonsense," he wrote.
When it comes to awards and monetary gain, Perelman just isn't interested; the genius refused the prize, claiming the knowledge gained to be worth more than the financial reward.
"I'm not interested in money or fame," Perelman stated.
"Emptiness is everywhere and it can be calculated, which gives us a great opportunity. I know how to control the universe. So tell me, why should I run for a million?" he told the Russian newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda.
PS. I'm not sure of the comment "I know how to control the universe" I presume he means it from a mathmatical point of view
MASTER: "You see, one must practise spiritual discipline to understand this correctly.
Suppose, there are treasures in a room. If you want to see them and lay hold of them, you
must take the trouble to get the key and unlock the door. After that you must take the
treasures out. But suppose the room is locked, and standing outside the door you say to
yourself: 'Here I have opened the door. Now I have broken the lock of the chest. Now I
have taken out the treasure.' Such brooding near the door will not enable you to achieve
anything. You must practise discipline."
**********************************
Effort,Grace,Totality,All-Powerful,Saakshimaatra,Achala etc.
My personal understanding is all the above concepts are Range-bound.They are only Valid in that Time,Person,Place(Context).
The problem arises when one tries to reconcile all of the above concepts/pieces into a nice neat puzzle.It's like somebody asking his Dad well you told me this is bad when I was in school, then something else in College and now something else.Which one do I take?Dad cannot easily say follow this when in school, this in college and so on becuase the problem of how to teach 'Imitation' comes.These are questions of Wisdom and one has to learn and apply according to his Wisdom/experience.
I think to fill the gap between different concepts Sanakra introduced the word 'Maya'.This is also the meaning of Thyagaraja's song 'Samayaaniki Tagu Maatalaadene...'
Bhagawan's word for Maya was 'allocation of Prarabdha' in the Ulladu Narpadu.He first said all three Ego,Eeswara and Jagat arise simultaneously and then saying Eesarara is ajada and appropriated 'allocation of Prarabhdha'.This I believe is just to make it like Brahma Sutra where Devotees can sing 'Arunachala Siva' and ajnaanis can do 'Self-Enquiry' or some both.
Dvaita's explaination for this 'Maya' is You have no right to question about the Fruits.To do your duty un-attached is your job.Astrologer's answer is just wear the stone, to question it's not working is lack of faith on the stone.
Krushi(Effort) to naasti Durbhiksham but amount of krushi too is in the DNA.But one has no other choice but to try again and again or give up if too tired.
So stop trying to reconcile all concepts into one nice neat Whole.
zee,
"But one has no other choice but to try again and again or give up if too tired."
Is Sadhana this difficult?Aren't we getting anywhere?Are we groping in the dark?
Earnest Sadhana always yields fruit.There is no mistaking this.
Namaskar.
Hey Jude,
Perelman is a fascinating individual. I can see (via google news) that he is getting bad press because of his statement about controlling the universe. Interestingly enough, WIKI says that there are multiple sources who think that the interview was fake because it contradicts his previous statements.
best wishes
Dear hey jude,
There are many great men, who were showing such
of strange behavior, or, you may even call it 'madness
of a sort'. Take India's Srinivasa Ramanujan. He has
said that the deity Namagiri Amman, his family goddess,
had given him solutions to problems in his dreams!
Again, Alekhine, the famous world champion in Chess.
The famous Alekhine Defence in Chess is after him. He
was mad all the time excepting while he was playing chess. So also Robert Fischer, another great Chess
player. Nietzhe is world known for his 'madness'.
If some one had read only that portion of Sri Bhagavan's
biography of His early two years in Big Temple, where
He was even without coupina (in Vahana Mantapam),
he would also have branded Him as mad.
Pythiam PaRRi payan aRum enakku
padam uRum aru marunthu aruLvai...
(Padigam, verse 8)
Subramanian. R
Devotee:- It may be conceded that due to prarabdha the jnani acts as he does. But could it be said that such
acts do not leave their after-effects, as vasanas which
sticking to his mindbwould necessarily urge him to
engage in furhther activity?
Bhagavan:- He alone is a Jnani who is free from vasanas.
Therefore how can his acts done without attachment of
any kind whatever produce vasanas? Since none are
produced, nine can stick to his mind.
(Conversations - Old Devotees' Papers. )
Subramanian. R
Devotee:- There are imperfections, defects and undesirable tendencies even among the inmates of
Asramam. Why should it be so?
Bhagavan:- Where are those defects not found? They are everywhere. If we look to our object, our own aim in life,
these things will not distract us.
( Old Devotees' Papers - Conversations.)
Subramanian. R
Devotee:- What constitutes self enquiry? What is its
utility? Can better results be achieved through other
methods?
Bhagavan:- This self enquiry is not the critical study
of the scriptures. When the Source is searched the ego gmets merged on it. The result of the Self Enquiry is the cure of all sorrows. It is the highest of all results. There is
nothing greater than it. Marvellous occult powers are
possible through practices other than self Enquiry. But even, if one secures such powers ultimately Self Enquiry alone gives liberation. Failure to perform prescribed action
is not sinful for the wise. For, Self Enquiry itself is the most meritorious and most purifying.
(Sri Ramana Gita, ch. VII, verses 2,4,6,6,7 and 19)
Subramanian. R
Subramanian, 'If some one had read only that portion of Sri Bhagavan's
biography of His early two years in Big Temple, where
He was even without coupina (in Vahana Mantapam),
he would also have branded Him as mad.'
In India it is a time honoured tradition that some sadhus, hermits,Aghoris and (sky clad) monks wander around naked. They are usually revered for there spiritual sadhana even if it comes across as unorthodox or eccentric.
Dear all,
What is the basic tenets of Brahma Kumaris movement?
I have been seeing some programmes about BK movement
In HK TV, here. They are talking about Siva whom they
call A Point of Light. This movement has got branches
in about 40 countries in the world. The teachers are
men and women who are not married and they were
white dresses. They speak of the end of this world
soon and they also have theirbown calcuations about
4 yugas. They approve Buddha, Christ and Sankara
as great teachers.
Subramanian. R
Dear hey jude,
I agree with you. But these dhikambaras were not
seen in crowded temples. They were revered and
prayed to, only those who went to Himalayas and
deep jungles. Only Sadasiva Brahmendra was
sighted in the street by one Moslem chieftain and
the rest of the story you know.
As you have said they were eccentric if not mad.
Borg the famous tennis player was also 'eccentric'.
So was also Cassius Clay the boxing champion.
And our Bhilvamangal, the Krishna devotee and
author of Krishna Karnamrutam. And Seshadri
Swamigal, of Tiruvannamalai who 'found' Sri
Bhagavan for the world to benefit.
As Shakespeare said, " there is a method in their
madness."
Subramanian. R
R.Subramanian,
"They are talking about Siva whom they
call A Point of Light. "
The Brahma Kumari movement refer to their Teacher 'Siva baba'(A contemporary of Sadhu Vaswani) as Supreme.They Follow what they call 'Raja Yoga'and have a missionary zeal to add to their following.I had been to one of their chapels in my neighbourhood where they had a picture of picture of 'siva baba'.It was evening time and the room was dark with just a Neon lamp glowing in Red.They ask people to 'meditate' in that room.The 'Sisters' are very genial but after a few visits they would start recommending that one should visit 'Mount Abu',their Head Quarters.Sooner or later the 'Propaganda' element will come to the Foreground.
Here in our apartments,we have a flat where a few members live.
It is more a cult like Hare Rama Hare Krishna movement.The Leadership is with women although the members are from both the Genders.
Namaskar.
Subramanian, Sheshadri Swami might be put in the category of Crazy wisdom but in reality it is beyond category and can't be pigeon-holed.
We can all talk about it but we don't have a clue!
Dear Ravi,
Thank you for the information. It must be another one
like Ramachandra Mission, to which there are a number
of followers in Bangalore. They wearba small badge.
They shed idol worship. They meditate in congregation
on Sundays. They call it Sahaja Marga.
Subramanian. R
Dear hey jude,
Yes. The spiritual people who show such oddities,
cannot be categorized at all. They are god intoxicated.
That is all.
Subramanian. R
Today is the Maha Deepam, the day of light on the
summit of Arunachala. The Light which Brahma (buddhi)
and Vishnu (ego; ahankaram) could not fathom. The Light
which stayed as Hill for the world to bgefar It. Arunagiri
Siddha is residing there and all the treasures are available.
Weather permitting, one can see it in webcam at about
6 PM., IST, in Graham Boyd's website.
Subramanian. R
Subramanianji,
The brahmakumaris seem to approve of every religious teacher (except Zues, I think) and have been talking about the end of the world for some time now.
As Raviji mentioned, this particular group has all the trappings of a cult. I remember one of the followers telling me that hundred thousand people will survive the doomsday scenario.
Out of this chosen lot, two people will become king and queen (lord Vishnu and Goddess Lakshmi!) in the next Satya Yuga and rule the rest of the chosen ones.
best
While on the topic of Cults and Gurus:
I have been to Hare Krishna Movement(isckon) and they too are very aggressive in Gospel like the Christian Evangelists.I personally do not like such aspects of these groups.
Things aside, I have recently met Mata Amritanandamayi for a hug when she was in town recently.For me I felt absolutely nothing, zero, nor any change later.What does it mean?I noticed one in every 30 or 40 do become emotional and cry. So they must be receiving some happiness.Some long time devotees said they received experiences beyond words and every year they come back and sometimes they do and sometimes they dont feel anything.I asked them if any of these experiences translated into anything concrete in their lives? Very few dedicated people said yes.After Sathya Sai Baba she probably is well on her way to becoming the most famous living saint with a huge Charity Empire.She has incredible levels of physical Energy to do marathon sessions of hugging thousands of people with very little food or rest.Only she knows what it is all for.I went with an attitude that nobody can change my life and I have to walk my walk but I was desperate and said to myself why not give a try when in town; what do I lose.
I have heard of another one called Mother Meera; an open one to one session with whom is a bit more intense apparently.She does shuttle between India and Germany, also travelling the world for these Darshans.
Wonder what these experiences translate into.My experience and understanding is these are all tricks like a mother does to her crying baby to calm it down or encourage him.Even the widely well known'wish fulfilling emperor' Shirdi Sai asked if he was doing any leelas at all meaning just tricks to encourage us.Towards the end of his life he too was tired that people were only interested in wish fulfilling and not in Jnana that was overflowing with him.What else did he think people would ask for??
There is no shortcut whatsoever. Karma is inescapable and one has to take full responsibility. But we as humans are hopeful and some desperate.Though desperate we know in the core of our hearts that KARMA IS INESCAPABLE.Gurus do once in while postpone it for future lives, or give icepacks, or a shoulder to cry or do some trickery to help us.Glory to the Compassionate.A man with no compassion is dead.But Desire is incompatible with Compassion.This is the dichotomy of a Jiva;some animal and some spirit.Thus goes Life.
Rest in natural great peace
This exhausted mind
Beaten helpless by karma and neurotic thought,
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace.
Tibetan
zee,
"Glory to the Compassionate.A man with no compassion is dead.But Desire is incompatible with Compassion"
Absolutely.I enjoyed reading your post.
"we as humans are hopeful and some desperate.Though desperate we know in the core of our hearts that KARMA IS INESCAPABLE.Gurus do once in while ... give icepacks, or a shoulder to cry or do some trickery to help us."
Sri Aurobindo in that wonderful chapter 'Four Aids' in The Synthesis of yoga says:
"The divine working is not the working which the egoistic mind desires or approves; for it uses error in order to arrive at truth, suffering in order to arrive at bliss, imperfection in order to arrive at perfection. The ego cannot see where it is being led; it revolts against the leading, loses confidence, loses courage. These failings would not matter; for the divine Guide within is not offended by our revolt, not discouraged by our want of faith or repelled by our weakness; he has the entire love of the mother and the entire patience of the teacher."
Namaskar.
Zee,
"I went with an attitude that nobody can change my life and I have to walk my walk but I was desperate and said to myself why not give a try when in town; what do I lose."
Friend,you are right that we have to walk the walk.No one can give us anything.
Association with Great ones help us to discover and reinforce what is already in us.If we are not receptive and open we will come back through the same door that we entered.
I have been to Amma whenever she was here in Chennai and have on a couple of occasions received the 'Hug'.It is indeed a Joy to see her sparkling eyes that put the diamond studs that she wears to shame!I go there just to watch this.I do not go for a Hug or for any special experience.It is not that she goes through the motions.It is compassion that embraces all-Deserving ,undeserving,Fop or a devotee,Rich or poor,old or young-All are her children.
Truly a Great soul.Perhaps there is a need in today's mechanical world to reach out.A kind word,a pat or a hug-all these have their place as much as Jnana(perhaps a seed is sown unknown!).
Namaskar.
zee/Friends,
"Karma is inescapable"
This is a very very important aspect.I chanced upon a thread in a Blog devoted to Sri Bhagavan where our good friend R.Subramanian has also posted.
A person who has 500,000 USD as debt has posted seeking help:
"Yes, I know I must surrender…. But that would also mean doing nothing while my debt levels and bills rise…… So in my practical reality sense, I feel I have to do something."
Please visit:
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6755.0
One of the fundamental aspects in spiritual living is to break the apparent Divide between the Secular and the Spiritual.
The Secular is the actual and the spiritual is the ideal and these two have to be integrated.
Not to get into debts or finding a means to reduce debts is necessary for spiritual well being.To ignore this and go after "Bliss","Grace" etc is a form of escape only.
It is precisely here that Karma becomes inescapable.To surrender does not mean to get rid of the Responsibility of having to repay the Debt.
I have brought this example only as an illustration of one tendency that I encounter from time to time among aspirants who misread the 'World is an illusion' statement of Advaita.They tend to ignore the Secular or treat it as incidental or less important-to be dealt with somehow or other or somehow Prarabdha will unroll itself!
Namaskar.
Dear All,
I am back in Bangalore. I watched the
Maha Deepam in ipad at 6.46 PM last night (9.16 at HKT) and boarded the flight. Arunachala has not disappointed me. From today, I shall send the comments in the name of
Subramanian. R., only.
****
Dear m and zee,
Thank you for your information on Brahma Kumaris and ISKCON. I tried
ISKCON for some time. Their pomp
and lavish wealth (CIA FUNDS?) put me off. Such trials and tribulations brought me to Sri Bhagavan. Without losing my regard for SRK and Swami V.
I came to Sri Bhagavan.
****
Bhagavan 12: For those who cannot,
through consciousness, reach the dwelling place of the "I", the proper course is to seek out, through Japa, the source of the transcendental speech (Paravak)
GVK: 706: For those who cannot, through mouna, their subtle consciousness, dive into the Heart, by seeking the place from where the "I" rises, it is better to enquire from where the paravak (transcendental speech) arises while performing mental japas.
The above two verses allude to a teaching that Sri Bhagavan gave to Ganapati Muni when the latter came to Him for advice in Virupaksha Cave.
Talks No. 312 also describe this ajapa and paravak.
(Trs. of verses David Godman)
****
Dear Ravi,
Yes. My debts will not be paid off
unless I toil for repayment. My diseases and pains will not go unless I take proper medicines and also show my perseverance to become normal. God or Guru shall only give you that courage to work hard to earn money to pay off the debts and sustain my perseverance to get cured. It is this act of God or Guru giving us the necessary perseverance and mind to make efforts is called Grace. A man with ardent faith shall get the Grace necessary for overcoming the debts and diseases. A fifty percent effort (partial surrender) shall place you only in a position where you can jump half the well.
****
salutations to all:
Subramanian:
["...Without losing my regard for SRK and Swami V. I came to Sri Bhagavan. ..."]
had a very hearty laugh on reading about "V" :-) was reminded of a wonderful dialogue in a film 'V for Vendetta', which goes like this:
"on this most auspicious of nights, permit me then, in lieu of the more commonplace sobriquet to suggest the character of this dramatis persona. voila! in view, a humble vaudevillian veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villian by the vicissitudes of fate. this visage, no meer venner of vanity is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant & vanished. however, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and the voracious violation of volition. the only verdict is vengeance, a vendetta held as a votive not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. verily this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose. so let me simply add that its my very good honor to meet you, and you may call me V."
hahahahahaha :D
(by the way, when you write so much of stuff on a daily basis, is it so much of a trouble to write sri rAmakrishNa or vivEkAnanda?)
In this month's Saranagati magazine
of the Asramam ( e magazine ), there is one small account on MeyporuL Nayanar, one of the 63 Saiva Saints. This story in Periyapuranam was incidentally in my Tamizh subject of my B.Sc. (Chemistry) in late 60's. This Nayanar was ruling a small area in Tamizh Nadu. He was an ardent devotee of Siva and so also was his wife. The neighboring chieftain wanted to win a war over MeyporuL Nayanar. He could not succeed in several of his attempts. So he decided to kill the Nayanar by foul means. He came dressed like a Siva devotee and wanted to 'teach' him some sacred and secret Agama to Nayanar. He said to the royal people that this Agama should be 'taught' secretly and thus asked them to keep away from the room where Nayanar was staying. He went
inside and was received by Nayanar with great regards. After doing Padapuja to the enemy, Nayanar sat before him to listen to the Agama. The enemy swiftly took out a knife and stabbed him to near death. On hearing the cry, the people came inside. Nayanar told them all to keep away since he was a Siva devotee and a Siva devotee should never be harmed! He made arrangements with his deputies to accompany him till he reaches the border unharmed! Then he died. Siva took Nayanar to His Abode.
****
Dear S.,
1. I have no quarrel. I am not writing about SRK and Swami Vivekananda, since Ravi is writing about Thakur regularly. Further my reading on Sri Bhagavan is more elaborate and is in depth than Thakur and Swami Vivekananda.
2. I am keeping Sri Bhagavan as my Guru and one cannot keep two many gurus as that will be like riding several horses at the same time. Hence I stop with having great regard and respect for SRK and Swami V.
****
salutations to all:
Subramanian:
["...I have no quarrel. I am not writing about SRK and Swami Vivekananda..."]
sir, i guess you didn't get my point at all, which was half jest half request - the request was to use proper names and not abbreviations such as 'SRK' or 'Swami V.' - in that context i'd said since you anyhow keep writing so much, surely writing their names can't be a burden, right? that's all and there was nothing more to it...
Dear s,
I agree with your point. I shall note this in future. SRK again in this world of cinema and politics would refer to Shah Ruk Khan also.
Hence I should avoid abbreviations.
***
The questions put by Sri Ramanashrayee to Bhagavan and his replies are set out below:
R: What is the relationship between vichara, self enquiry and repetition of sacred syllables (mantra japa)?
Bhagavan: Vichara itself is the mantra, japa, tapas, sacred syllables and yoga.
R: Does it mean that for those practicing Vichara it is unnecessary to repeat mantras?
Bhagavan: Vichara is the source, the essence of all mantras. All that is meant is that one should not attached to doing the mantra as such. It does not preclude it.
R: Sometimes involuntarily Vichara
and Japa overlap into each other. What is one to do then?
Bhagavan: As a result of the previous practice even without effort this happens. But can either Vichara or Japa take place without the "I"? In both one has to fix one's attention to the Source be it of the "I" or of the mantra.
R: While doing Vichara, sometimes one reaches a blank.
Bhagavan: Whether blank is seen or the fullness is seen, there is the one to see. Find out who it is that sees the blankness. The reply has to be - to me. Find out who that "I" is. If one enquires then the blankness which appears due to habit would disappear. The appearance or disappearance of anything, the seeing or not seeing of anything is not natural. Hence, when there is any kind of perception, one must enquire. Then what remains is the "I", "I".
(More Ramana Reminiscnces - Ramanashrayee)
Sri Bhagavan said: All mistake the mind consciousness for Self Consciousness. There is no mind in
deep sleep; but no one denies his being in sleep. Even a child says on waking, "I slept well", and does not deny its existence. The "I" rises up, the mind turns outward through five senses and perceives objects, this they call direct perception. Asked if "I" is not directly perceived, they get confused, because "I" does not announce itself as an object in front and only the perception with the senses with them. A stanza in Tevaram says: "O Sages, eager to get over all the misery, worry not about inferences and examples! Our Light is ever shining forth from within! With mind clear, live in God!"
This is the direct perception. Will the common people admit it? They want God to appear in front of them as bright Being mounted on a bull.
Such a vision once originated must also end. It is therefore transient. Tevaram speaks of the Eternal and Ever-experienced Being. This Tevaram takes one directly to the Reality.
(Talks No. 512)
*****
Devotee: For one's practice, is it
not legitimate for one to pray to God to remove one's karma or to counteract it, and to hasten one attainment of moksha?
Bhagavan: It is legitimate no doubt. As long as you feel that you are different from the Higher Power, pray to it. As long as you feel that there are burdens on you, pray in respect of them. But better still, attain prapatti (saranagati or self self surrender, and entrust the burden to the Lord, who will then take the burden off your back and give you the feeling that you are in Him and one are one with with Him.
(B.V. Narasimha Swami - A dialogue with the Maharshi - Part IV - Mountain Path, April 1983.)
Subramanian. R
Someone presented a chiming clock to Mother's Temple and this started a trail of loud thinking by Sri Bhagavan.
Bhagavan: A small quantity of camphor is enough for worship. This is not done and people expect disproportionate bounty from God. Some strut about the feeling that they have given a lot to God. But what is theirs really for them to offer? A little of what belongs to God is returned and nothing more. To remain fee of thoughts and return the ever running mind to God is the best way that one can make to God. This is what Sankara also says in Sivananda Lahari.
(B.V. Narasimha Swami - A Dialogue with the Maharshi, Part IV. Mountain Path, April. 1983.)
Subramanian. R
I was going through some verses in
Gaudapada Karika, after some posts had come in this subject, in another blog. Some verses from Mayavilasa Prakaranm, Illusion, made me think over them and I thought that I should share them here.
Mandukya Karika - Maya Vilasa Prakaranam:-
16. First of all, is imagined the Jiva and then are imagined the various entities, objective and subjective, that are perceived. As is one's knowledge so is one's memory of it.
17. As the rope whose nature is not really known, is imagined in the dark to be a snake, a water-line etc., so also is the Atman is imagined in various ways.
18. When the root nature of the rope is ascertained, all illusions about it disappear and there arises the conviction, that it is one unchanged rope and nothing else. Even so, is the nature of the conviction regarding Atman.
19. The Atman is imagined as Prana and other endless objects. This is due to Maya (ignorance) of the luminous Atman itself by which It is deluded.
20. Those who know only Prana call It Prana. Those that know Bhutas (five elements) call It Bhutas. Those knowing Gunas call It Gunas, those knowing Tattvas call It Tattvas.
22. Those knowing the Vedas call It the Vedas. Those acquainted with sacrifices call It Yajnas. Those conversant with the enjoyer, designate It as the Enjoyer and those with the object of enjoyment, call It such.
24. Those knowers of time call It
Time. The knowers of Space call It Space.
25. The Cognizers of mind call It Mind. Of the Buddhi, the Buddhi. Of the Chitta, the Chitta. Of the Dharmas call It Dharmas. Those who know only Adharma call It Adharma.
28. The knowers of creation call It Creation. The knowers of dissolution describe It as dissolution. And the believers in the subsistence believe It to be subsistence. Really speaking, all these ideas are always imagined in Atman.
29. He (the enquirer) cognizes only that idea that is presented to him. It (Atman) assumes the form of what is cognized and thus protects the enquirer. Possessed by that idea he realizes It as the sole essence.
30. The Atman, though non separate from all these, appears, as it were, separate. One who knows this
truly imagines the meaning of Vedas without hesitation.
32. As are dreams and illusions or a castle, in the air seen in the sky, so is the universe viewed by the wise in the Vedanta.
32. There is no dissolution, no birth, none in bondage, none aspiring for wisdom, no seeker of liberation, and none liberated. This is the absolute truth.
Subramanian.R
salutations to all:
Subramanian:
12 comments on a single day! please don't get me wrong. while your enthusiasm seems to have hit a new high, i suppose, purely from the readability point, request you to not put up 4-5 random comments (as you were doing until recently), unless of course they are on a certain point of discussion. that way, the blog wouldn't appear as your personal diary...
Sri Sadhu Om:
Some people doubt, "If it is so, will the mind then remains drowned forever in Samadhi? Will it no be able to come out again and know all the second and third persons of this world? Is it not a fact, that even Bhagavan Sri Ramana spent nearly 54 years in the state of self realization and that most of that time, He was seen to be attending to second and third persons?" Yes. It is true that though Sri Bhagavan always remained in the state of self realiazation, yet in the outlook of others, He was seen to be knowing the world. How can this be accounted for?
To remain with the body and mind completely inert is not the only sign of Samadhi. Though after Self realization, some Jnanis spend their entire lifetime completely oblivious of the body and the world, not all Jnanis will necessarily remain thus. The return of body consciousness (and consequently mind consciousness) after the attainment of Self realization is according to the porarabdha of the body. In the case of some, it might never return, while in the case of others it might never return within a second
or after a few hours or days. But even in such cases, where it does return, it will not be experienced as a knowledge of the second and third persons! That is to say, the body and the world are not experienced as knowledge of second or third persons! That is to say, the body and the world are not experienced by the jnani as second and third persons, objects, other than himself--- but as His own limited and undivided Self.
Therefore, even while a jnani is (in the view of onlookers) attending to the second and third persons objects, he is (in his own view) attending to the Self. Hence, even though he may appear to be engaged in so many activities, both physical and mental, he is infact ever abiding in the natural state,
of unceasing Self attention and all the activities are done through the Power within.
Subramanian. R
Dear S,
Taking some liberty with you:The same thoughts came to me in the past especially when I saw totally unrelated or routine boring posts on Self.Then I quickly realized I am in the same boat as well and so infact these boring posts were actually helping me.To elucidate further let me cut n paste this story:
There was this sannyas, a sannyasi, a sadhu. He used to lived just opposite, in front of him um there was a house where a prostitute lady used to lived. So, every day the sannyas will look how many men will visit this prostitute. He will count. So, one day he decided to go to the lady and said, „Lady, you don’t know how much you are sinning. For sure, you will go to hell for all the sin you are doing. You have to really repent and change your life. This poor lady, when she hear that, she was very alarmed and shocked. She was crying very bitterly, you know, crying and repenting inside and feeling so bad inside of her when she heard how much she has commit, how much sin she have committed. And she will pray to Mahavishnu and said, „Lord forgive me, I didn’t know how much sin I have committed“. So, she will cry and cry, but as prostitution was her only mean of living, she could not really change her life.
So, seeing that even while talking to her she didn’t change, the sannyas start, was thinking and he said I will collect, each person I will put one stone in front just to show her how much is her sin. So, after some time, it was a big heap of, a pile of stone, a heap of stone.. He went to the lady and said, „You see this big heap of stone, this is all your sin“. And, again, she will cry, every day she was crying. Sincerely she will ask God for forgiveness. So, it so happened that after this incident, the prostitute lady died and, coincidentally, the sannyas, who was a Brahmin, also died. So, as he was waiting for who will come to get him.You know, he was thinking he’s a Brahmin, the angels of God will come and take. As he was waiting, he saw that the angels of God, Mahavishnu, God came and took the soul of the prostitute lady to Vaikunta, to heaven.
And, for him the God of the dead came to get him and bring him to hell. So, out of protest, he start to scream, said what unfair it is. „I am a sannyas, I am a Brahmin, I pass my life praying to God, but here the prostitute lady is going to heaven and I’m going to hell.“ At that the guard of Mahavishnu, the servant of Mahavishnu said, „Well, whenever you have accused her, she was, she repent sincerely and ask God for forgiveness and she was chanting the Divine Names continuously in her heart. Whereas you, you were not contemplating on the Divine, even if you were sitting and praying in the outside, but inside your heart, you were contemplating on the sin what this lady was, has been doing. So, that’s why you are going to hell.
Dear S.,
As you know I was in Hong Kong and was starved of books and a regular desktop. I had to toil with iPad touch screen and hence the posts were quite less during last one month. All said and done, I wrote many comments on 9th Dec. since I was back in Bangalore, India and I thought that with my comfortable desktop, I should write more.
Do not worry. My comments will be back to maximum of 4 or 5 per day
henceforth. But I can write only about Sri Bhagavan and Self and not about Anna Hazare, whose unselfish efforts to bring about corruption
free government is dear to me and I have been following his steps.
Dear Zee,
I agree with you. Nevertheless, we should also respect of the feelings of others who believe I am hijacking the blog only with my numerous posts.
Subramanian. R
Sampurnamma - Kitchen Assistant:
Once I suggested that we should eat our dinner in the open, because the moon was bright in the sky and there was quite a crowd of visitors. Sri Bhagavan agreed and we arranged for food to be served in the open courtyard. Sri Bhagavan was sitting in the middle and there was a strong and clear halo around His head. Was it moonlight or some other cause? I cannot say, but the halo was there and many could see it. It made a deep impression on us and we talked about it for weeks. Just before the meal, somebody brought a big basketful of sweets, enough for all. Was it a coincidence or Sri Bhagavan's wonderful play?
During their periods, women were not given Asramam food to eat or allowed to enter the Asramam. One month none of my relatives were there to help me, nor could I arrange for my food elsewhere, and I was starving. I sat in a stone shed in front of the Asramam where beggars usually spent the night. Sri Bhagavan enquired about me and was told that I would not be coming for three days.
"Where is she?"
"In the mantapam in front of the gate" was the reply.
"Bring her in and feed her decently," ordered Sri Bhagavan. Everyone was shocked, for it was a clear breach of all rules and customs. "But she is impure", they protested.
"Who is pure and who is impure? All are one all are the same!"
One needs to know the South Indian Brahmin to understand what a crisis Sri Bhagavan had created. The rules about women in their periods were severe and rigidly enforced. To break them would mean to pollute the entire Asramam and face a public outcry.
It speaks a lot for the devotion of the inmates that they reluctantly called me in. Sri Bhagavan wanted to go to the kitchen to bring some food, but they asked Him to wait. They brought some food and fed me in front of Him. An ancient rule was broken and He sanctified the breach with His Presence. He wanted to teach us the entire lesson that in spirituality, the human being come and that the compassion is the supreme law. Some understood but many looked daggers at me or scolded me for polluting them all, by causing them to feed me.
(From Sri Ramana Smrti.)
Subramanian. R
The visitor who had asked about yoga in the morning, now pursued his questions further.
Visitor: I did not quite grasp all that Bhagavan said this morning. What am I to do when the mind strays in
various directions during dhyana?
Bhagavan: Simply draw the mind back each time it strays and fix it in dhyana. There is no other way. (Bhagavan also quoted Chapter VI,
Verse 26 from Srimad Bhagavad Gita
which says the same thing.)
Visitor: Then is there no use in pranayama (breath control)? Should I not practice it?
Bhagavan: Pranayama is also of a help. It is one of the various methods that are intended to help us attain ekagratha or one pointedness of mind. Pranayama can also help to control the wandering mind and attain this one pointedness and therefore it can be used. But one should not stop there. After obtaining control of the mind through Pranyayama one should not rest content there with any experiences which may accrue therefrom but should harness the controlled mind to the question, "Who am I?" till the mind merges in the Self.
The visitor further asked whether in his meditation, he could use forms and images of God and mantras.
Bhagavan: Yes, of course. All these things can help , or why should they be recommended in the books? Various things are prescribed to suit various natures. Each person must choose what seems easiest and appeals to him.
(Day by Day, 5th May 1946)
Subramanian. R
Date 27.06.1947: Time 4.30 PM
A regular visitor, an aged genteman, sought Sri Bhagavan's guidance about stabilizing his spiritual experience.
Devotee: I am losing consciousness of the body sometimes. During practice I become unaware, for a short time, of my body, the mind and the surroundings. I recollect this on becoming normal.
Bhagavan: Oh! - Is it so? It is good. You should be getting real peace as a result.
Devotee: I am not able to experience the peace which Sri Bhagavan talks about.
Bhagavan: In sleep, there is no consciousness of the body. This does not mean that you did not exist while asleep. If you get into
the habit of consciously losing awareness of the body -- mind in the waking state itself, then you should experience real peace, 'shanti'.
Devotee: I am not experiencing it. I am confused. When Sri Bhagavan explains everything is clear but somehow we are not able to follow it subsequently. Sri Bhagavan should bless me to enable me to get into that state.
Bhagavan: You should intensify your efforts. It requires constant Self awareness. Consciousness is one's true nature. There can be no break in the continuity of consciousness.
Devotee: The Peace is missing. Only blankness is there.
Bhagavan: Pure Consciousness is different from the mind and intellect. It is different from the ego-consciousness or consciousness of the body. Consciousness can shine only in the egoless state, when does not rise or subside. Merging into the source of the ego, which is the fullness of consciousness is limited by thought. As sadhana advances, everything would be clear.
(Leaves From the Diary, N.N. Rajan.)
Subramanian. R
M. ANANTANARAYANAN:
(Former Chief Justice of Madras High Court - In his introduction to his commentary on Upadesa Undiyar.)
The life and thought of Sri Ramana were inextricably intertwined. For he was no metaphysician, but a practical mystic, a man who hungered to share with others the Ecstasy which was the undertone of His life. That had been so since a certain experience of boyhood, which filched Him from the divided world of the Mind, and took Him into the bosom of the Silence of the Being.
The experience of Selfhood in Madurai changed His whole life.
It led Him into the moods of abstraction, where the vividness of the Time-Space continuum which fetters us, began to fade. There is a story that the elder brother, finding the younger brother plunged into meditation, instead of the practically valuable text book, rebuked him by an appeal to His ethical sense --"For one who is thus, why all this?" His meaning was plain. When you are in the world, you must be of the world. You cannot have a leg up in heaven, wherever that may be, and continue worldly pursuits. No doubt, the admonisher thought that the boy would be shamed back into conscientious study. But to the boy, who had inherited the wealth of Godhead, who was immersed in god, unknown to those who saw with the eyes of flesh, the remonstrance was a call. What part or lot had He, truly, in the world of effort and success, and why should He not have done with it?
So, it happened that young Ramana, who had heard by accident of Arunachala (Tiruvannamalai) and felt a deep inner thrill, as though the physical home where the rest of His life was to be spent was itself the outer expression of His ecstatic experience, left home and kindred in His seventeenth year.
*
But abnormal psychology must also be silent, for this was no exhibition of decadence, deteriorating coma or imbecility. The powers of mind, on the contrary, were quickened and vivified by the interior illumination. Sri Ramana understood the subtleties of metaphysics as commentaries on the experiences that was earlier His. His intellect was a tool in its operations. He seems to have mastered languages with ease. Or any subject upon which He chose to focus His thought. That the absorption of those years was far from any discipline, any effort, is revealed by one of His rare autobiographical fragements: "I then did not speak, and they called me a Mauni. I did not eat and they said that I was fasting.
*
His life was a play upon the surface, peace and joy in its depths. It was uneventful, meanly restricted from the point of view of outer stimuli. We who live by the richness of sensation, can hardly hope to understand such self sufficiency in Being. He had truly no possessions. That Asamam grew around Him, for people who could not tear themselves away from the Master, made here a cluster of homes and buildings. But He was not not merely detached, he was joyously indifferent. It was the paradox of 'passionate dispassion'. He lived with Spartan simplicity, which is no so difficult as people sometimes imagine, particularly in a tropical climate. But He had no resentment towards luxuries, which for a Spartan is difficult indeed. He had very little of moral censure or judgement. He was most patient with human weaknesses. Actually, He resembled Spinoza in thinking of them, rather as 'inadequate ideas', the inability to hold on to Godhead, which is our birthright, being the source and mother of such evils. But He Himself lived a life of effortless purity.
(Mr. Ananthanaraynan's name should be familiar to all who have read the Curious Court Case, post of David Godman.)
to be continued...
Subramanian.
R.Subramanian,
"but a practical mystic, a man who hungered to share with others the Ecstasy which was the undertone of His life."
"His life was a play upon the surface, peace and joy in its depths.It was uneventful, meanly restricted from the point of view of outer stimuli."
I do not think that Mr Ananthanarayanan knows Sri Bhagavan at all.
---------------------------------
Friend,What is in this post that you have found is moving or throwing some interesting perspective on the Life and teachings of Sri Bhagavan.
Namaskar.
M.ANATANARAYANAN:-
Former Chief Justice of Madras Hight Court.
(in his book of commentary on Upadesa Undiyar, by way of Introduction.)
continues...
His works are few. They are terse and epigrammatic, expressive of His ecstatic experience, and the way to it, which was His philosophy. He did not design them as literary creations, and they were not planned and executed as unities. Mainly they are fragments, in each case collected later into an opus by devotees. But they are vital for an understanding of His thought. Sri Ramana was a philosopher as well. But like all true mystics, He derived His metaphysics from His experience.
*
Unlike other saints, He worked no miracles. He never claimed to possess occult powers. He once said that the emergence of a philosopher or a cricketer, from the undifferentiated human foetus, was a miracle far greater than the marvels of saints. His wit could be
a lightning flash, but it never injured. Many years ago, when robbers broke into his cave in Arunachala at midnight, He was not merely unruffled, but invited them to take whatever the place offered. Disappointed at finding no treasure, as they had been led to expect, the robbers vented their spleen by assaulting the inmates and Sri Ramana Himself not being excluded. After they left, a devotee, who was unaware that the Master had been beaten, timidly enquired -- 'What Bhagavan..?' "Oh, Bhagavan is alright," replied Sri Ramana, "Puja has been adequately performed for Him." That is untranslatable in its irony, but the reader must know that the Sanskrit word Puja, signifying riutalistic worship of deities or holy men, is used in colloquial Tamizh, as the equivalent of a sound drubbing !
*
When some very intense person, asked Him why God did not fulfil his heartfelt prayers, Sri Ramana replied, with a twinkle - "Because you would cease to pray if He did!"
A man preoccupied with the Theosophical doctrine of the occult hierarchy, asked Him if He saw the invisible Masters, "If they are invisible", replied Sri Ramana laughing, "how can you see them?" The discomfited questioner stammered "in Awareness". "In Awareness", came the instant rejoinder like a shaft of sunlight, " the other does not exist."
*
The prolonged martyrdom which was His death, left untouched the ever bubbling springs of His joy, peace and wit. It was something quite different from stoicism on the part of the patient, which moved the eminent surgeons who attended Him with awe. He Himself explained that He felt each shade of pain, and even its vastness, but that it was like the pain of a dream which the dreamer knows that he is dreaming. The muscles of His face were never contorted with pain, even involuntarily. The smile was not fixed. It was born each moment, in the midst of great physical suffering. "How can I carry this body unaided, which four men must carry?" He asked, - a literal reference to the transport of the corpse on its bier. But the jest was not grim, as it would have been in Shakespeare. It was the light hearted repartee of a man who had knowledge beyond the fear of Death.
*
Philosophical expositions of Sri Ramana's thought are apt to be colourless or misleading. Radical simplicity ought not to be elaborated. It is not the text, springing from a perennial experience, which is 'crabbed' but the comment. The best way of all is to study the works of the Master in the light of His recorded replies, which are spontaneous and unrehearsed. The Master has the assurance of His dwelling in the Reality. His words are simple and few, "a dagger to stab awake" the intuitive perception of Truth.
(M.Anantanarayanan is the one who is mentioned in the A Curious Court Case post of David Godman.)
to be continued......
Subramanian. R
Friends,
'M,The Apostle and the Evangelist' by Swami Nityatmananda- is a wonderful sequel to the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.
An excerpt from this book:
Antevasi: Miss MacLeodMcLeod also asked me to say this to you. She said, ‘Mr. M.N. (Mahendera Nath) paints a living pen picture. Please convey to him that I sincerely request him to write something about Swamiji.’ Many old and new sadhus have also said the same.
M: Yes, but it is only possible if the Mother gives the power to do so. Without Her grace, bhakti and jnana do not get fully expressed while writing. Giving a narration of incidents or writing a commentary does not make a significant impact. At the most, one’s ideas may be clear but it does not touch the heart. And it does not help to develop the character. The writing should be such that it pulls the reader’s mind towards God and ties it to theHis lotus feet of God. The reader would know that the highest ideal of human life is to see God."
"Instructing anybody or writing something entails a lot of responsibility. Many times it ends in unintended catastrophe. In the words of Thakur, ‘The patient was sitting up, the doctor came and laid him low.’ This can happen or one may say such a stupid thing as ‘there is a cowshed full of horses in the house of my maternal uncle’"
Namaskar.
Friends,
Many are those who have reminisced on Sri Bhagavan.Many have composed wonderful songs on him-like Muruganar,Sadhu Om,Sivaprakasam pillai.Yet for me,the Ramana Stuti panchakam of Satyamangala Venkataramana iyer(he remains anonymous despite having this name!)is unmatched in its charm,felicity of expressive Bhava,capturing the very essence of Sri Bhagavan.It easily rivals Sri Bhagavan's Arunachala Stuti panchakam-as if Arunachala wanted to pay back any debts that might have accrued on account of Sri Bhagavan's Hymns!
For sheer beauty and ease of Tamil,it outclasses all the other compositions.
Today is Saturday and the day's parayana in the evening in Sri Ramanasramam is this set of Five Gems on Sri Bhagavan.
Here are the first three verses of 'ponnoLir paththu':
1.PonnoLir vadivi nAnE pooraNa vadanat tAnE
Tannarun suvAnu bhuti tarai-yelAm manaakka yÉzhai
Unnarum pugazhaik kEtiv ulagelAn tedi vandÉn
EnnaruL iRaiyÉ jnAna Ramana ne jyothik kunRe.
Of gold-hued form, the lotus-faced One, rare realisation
spreading fragrance all over the earth! Having heard of your
fame, poor as I am, I looked for you throughout the world and
reached you here, my gracious Lord, wise Ramana, Hill of Light!
2.JyotiyE vadivAi ninRa sonamA sailan tannil
VÉdiya uruvi nodu virupAksha guhaiyin mEvum
AdiyE anAdi vaippE amalanE Ramana ennaic
sOdiya dAndu koLvAi chirpara soroopa neeyÉ.
Dwelling as the Brahmin living in Virupaksha Cave on the
sacred Hill of Light called Sonagiri, the primordial, eternal
treasure. O Ramana, the pure, make me your own without
testing me for you indeed are the Supreme!
3.ChirparA nanda vAzhvE sivat todun kalanda tEnE
aRpudA nandap pAhE akanDanE Ramana unnaik
KaRpahat taruvai nADik kaDi dezhun dODi vandEn
ViRpana uruvE kAvAi vimalanE aruT kaN tandhE.
Life of Supreme Consciousness-Bliss,Honey Blended(one) with Siva , thick syrup
of rare bliss, indivisible One. O Ramana! You, the celestial wishfulfilling
tree, eagerly I ran to you. Knowledge incarnate, pure
Being, save me by your merciful gaze.
----------------------------------
Namaskar.
salutations to all:
Ravi/Others:
what you'd said about satyamangaLam venkatarAma iyer's poetry is the same i feel also in kAraikkAl ammaiyAr's delicious outpourings :-). here is a verse i got to read today as part of the aRputha andhAdhI (both 'tha' and 'dha' are soft and not the hard sounds of sanskrt).
request ravi & subramanian to give an accurate translation :-)
verse 17
காண்பார்க்குங் காணலாந் தன்மையனே கைதொழுது
காண்பார்க்குங் காணலாங் காதலாற் - காண்பார்க்குச்
சோதியாய்ச் சிந்தையுளே தோன்றுமே தொல்லுலகுக்
காதியாய் நின்ற அரன்
kANpArkum kANalAm thanmaiyanE kaitozhudu
kANpArkum kANalAm kAdhalAl - kANpArku
jodhiyAy sindhaiyuLE thOnRumE thol ulagukku
AdhiyAy ninRa aran
salutations to all:
Zee:
["...Taking some liberty with you:The same thoughts came to me in the past especially when I saw totally unrelated or routine boring posts on Self...."]
surely, sir :-). on the beautiful story you narrated, i understand that you are the 'sannyAsi' and subramanian is the 'lady' (or, is it the other way?) :-))). wondering that between you two cats, where does this monkey ('i') really fit in! hmmmm... :-)))
Dear S.,
For whom who constantly look at Him, He will remain ever in their vision. For those who see him, with folded hands, he will also remain in their mental eye. For those who who gaze Him, with ardent love and devotion, He will remain as an Effulgence in their
Heart. He is the beginningless, eternal Lord for this ancient world.
All the three categories of devotees are seeing Siva. But their seeing is described as of three categories.
Subramanian. R
Sub station,
".......But their seeing is described as of three categories."
lovely, lovelier, lovliest
R p
S,
I cant be God.So I am probably the one visiting the lady:)).But I was true when I meant I realized I was also in the same boat.Everytime I was a bit grumpy I started 'Being Mindful' why do I come here?Why do I have to comment?Does it serve any purpose.This did help me a lot.Similarily I was also true when I attributed the 'Spiritual Entertainment' to me.I only wrote what I observed myself in me.It is all Ego expression,Ego validation.
Increasing nature to be quiet or speak only when necessary is the ONLY sure sign of progress in Bhagawan's method.But let's not be worried.Chill out:)
Ravi and friends, Thanks for sharing Satyamangala's devotional verses. I have read his work before and indeed it is most beautiful.
M.ANANTANARAYANAN:
(former Chief Justice of Madras High
Court - In his introduction of the book, an English commentary on Upadesa Iyer.)
continues....
His words are simple and few, a dagger to "stab awake". The epistemological bias in favor of a strict idealism is undisguised. It is forgotten that the Master, when taxed with illusionism, defended Himself, by saying that neither Sankara, nor the Advaita Vedanta, assert that the world experience is utterly illusory. On the contrary, they affirm that it is relatively real, but the Reality includes and transcends it. Analogies, such as those of the dream and the mirage, are neither proofs nor precise parallels. They are of course, aids
to clarity of vision, and that is all. The experience of reality being indescribable, no anticipatory construction of the intellect is valid.
The apology for adding yet another
exposition of the Master's teaching is manifest...The unprepared student of Sri Ramana, particularly if he be an intellectual from the West, is apt to find himself in a strange country, and to bear too hasty a retreat from the unfamiliar landscape.
The basis of this thought is an enquiry into the truth of the Thinker. We might say with Kant, that we, each experience a world of mind, and cannot experience anything else; but who are 'we'? The stimuli that we receive from other individuals are as those that we receive from tree, rock, and stream. Our knowledge is derived from our perceptions, and here our assumption of other 'minds' is derivative and inferential. This is not for the purpose of a barren solipsism. It is to lead us, step by step, to a revelation which is initially intellectual. The thinker has assumed his own existence from him, from the basic thought 'I', which is a mere identification with a locus, the body, as much as a bundle of perceptions as any other, the entire universe of perceptions
has sprung up.
Who is this 'I'? Is 'I' anything but a seed thought of the thought
process? Is not this seed thought implicit in perceptions so that the most subtle movements of mind are founded upon it, even when it is unexpressed? Without the thinker, can there be thought? Are there 'others'? Note that Sri Ramana does not declare that the subjective idealism alone is true, that world-experience is unreal, or that other 'minds' do not exist. His point was always that the truth of such metaphysical problems cannot be known, apart from enquiry into the truth of the thinker, and the tracing of this thought 'I' to its source in Creative Being, which to him was sole Godhead.
continues....
s/Friends,
It is not easy to translate the verses of the Great ones-couched as they are in cryptic language.This is why they are called maRai in tamil-meaning hidden.As such it is only appropriate that the devotee approaches these in a personal way and benefit from it;more than understanding the 'meaning' of the verses,it is the essence and spirit that is encapsulated in it that is paramount.The fortunate one who soaks in this ambience understands it in a deep way and many a time this is related to the sheer sound of these verses!
For the translator,it presents a big challenge as far as breaking up of the compound words or setting forth the punctuation marks in these verses are concerned.Yet,one who enjoys these verses would like to share it with others like our good friend s and translation(mutilation!)becomes inevitable.
My reading of these verses(Have not read this one earlier)is that essentially there are two approaches to god-JnAna and Bhakti and kAraikAl ammaiyar is validating both in saying that God who is Beyond everything and timeless, does lend himself to be seen and felt and does manifest himself in the heart of his devotees.(This is the spirit that one should soak oneself into)
kANpArkum kANalAm thanmaiyanE kaitozhudu
kANpArkum kANalAm kAdhalAl - kANpArku
jOthiyAy sindhaiyuLE thOnRumE thol ulagukku
AdhiyAy ninRa aran
For seers thou are the very nature of seeing.
Those who worship with Love also can behold;
Manifests as effulgence in the Heart of the seers,
(That) Hara,who stands primordial to this world ancient.
----------------------------------
Namaskar.
M. ANANTANARAYANAN:
(former Chief Justice of Madras High Court, in the introduction of his book, a commentary on Upadesa Undiyar.)
continues..
For the mind is capable of a self-protective subtlety, which makes the pursuit into Truth the most arduous of all exercises to which man can consecrate his energies. The deepest human problems, when stated, is deceptive in its simplicity, its seeming lack of intricacy. To the physiologist the 'I' might be a center located in the 'body image' area of the cerebral cortex. But he would be non plussed when confronted with epistemological, which is outside his special field. Philosophers might respond variously. But all the answers would be false, for even to approach the answer we must proceed by way of negation, the elimination of concepts themselves founded upon a false identity. Truly, negative comprehension is the most dynamic form of thought.
It is the thinker who coordinates impression, who is active in creating the order which is world-experience for each of us. Analysis of that order is endless and unfruitful. We must doubt the 'doubter'. We must seek the source of ourselves, first and last. Truly, we are not the body which is a bundle of perceptions non existent in the depths of sleep. We are not name and form, memory or any thought. When every other thought is so eliminated, and the naked 'I' alone remains, it is realized as the seed and essence of the thought process. This intense consciousness of self, unidentified with any other perception including that of the body, is the beginning of wisdom. For it then flashes as an intuition upon us, as it came to Sri Ramana as a boy, that the 'I' itself is but a thought founded upon pure consciousness. This Awareness is the deepest truth of ourselves. It is not finite, and hence it is ever stainless, blissful, ever present in the touches of pain and joy. It is both Godhead, and the Kingdom of Heaven.
These are words, and words are only the outer garb of thoughts. Thought cannot uncover reality, because it is mere relationing. Mind is only an abstract symbol for an active process, we must ever cloud the truth. The word 'God' is not God. So, to Sri Ramana, reality cannot be known as an object of experience. Being 'is'. Thought, time and space have no existence separate from it. But the gist of the teaching is a mystical experience, which is not an act of knowledge. That experience is ever present, not an achievement in time, as it our intrinsic nature, our inalienable sovereignty. The denial of it, in every moment of time, in each movement of the structural personality, which is finite and composite, is the sole untruth.
So surgical a metaphysic might seem more impossible than any illusionism. But the fault is with us, for we have forgotten the practical mystic in the philosopher. To Sri Ramana, acceptance of the philosophy of the Advaita Vedanta, which is largely by His thought, was quite unessential. He recognized that minds might be constituted quite differently; that they might, with integrity of intellect, challenge not merely His conclusions, but His very premises. He had only one word - which was at once an injunction and exhortation, an entreaty, and a suggestion -- 'Seek to know Who am I?-. He might well have said, echoing the Christ, 'And all other
things will be added unto you.'
continues....
M. ANANTANARAYANAN:
(former Chief Justice of Madras High Court.)
(from the introduction of his book, a commentary on Upadesa Undiyar.)
continues....
The mystic is multi-planal, to use an ugly, but expressive word. To him to whom the Divine Ground is ever present, it is the sanction of his thinking, not rational consistency. Paradox can be Truth. Sri Ramana ever sought to bring his questioners to the direct, simple truth of Awareness. His concern was to awaken enquiry, that dynamic and ceaseless introspection which could take the seeker beyond speculation
into Nirvana. But as to methods, he was a pragmatist. He recognized that to a certain kind of mind, the enquiry, Vichara, might seem lifeless and cold. Truly the critic might retort, we have been robbed of bread, the bread of faith, prayer, grace, tears in the Sanctum, and offered a stone, though it be a diamond blazing in darkness. We cannot turn away from the business of living, which ever assumes the existence of the thinker, to stab ourselves repeatedly with this doubt. The impulse to this suicidal introspection can only be fitful.
The Master's reply teemed with wisdom. In a certain sense minds are also organisms, they grow and spread leaves in the sunshine of Truth by differing nutrient. To a certain rare type of mind, the epistemological problem is itself the flame of enquiry, the abstract pursuit a deeper passion than any lust of flesh, than an imagination of the heart. Such a mind is ripe for enquiry, because it has outgrown self projection, which still comforts the weaker temperaments. He was very clear that the search Who am I? was important, not any conclusion that the intellect formulates as a reply. For the true answer is a state of Awareness, which dawns as thoughts are reduced to the seed thought 'I' and that itself melts in the unmeasured Being from which it first arose. But the Master admitted every ledge of support to the weaker explorer. There was hardly any form of devotion, of the projection of faith, which He did not admit as good and true in the individual case. Only, He exhorted the seeker ever forward, to surrender beyond supplicatory power, to what Brother Lawrence would have termed the practice of the Divine Presence, beyond ritual, act of adoration, or any other affirmation of our petty selves. However achieved, the essential thing was THE MIND MUST FALL SILENT.
Naturally enough, this kind of catholicity seems doubtful coinaage to a certain orderly intellect. Did Sri Ramana accept a personal God (Iswara)? If so, how did He reconcile this strange concession to a human hunger and anthropomorphism, with his concept of a Creative Silence of Being as the sole Truth? Did Sri Ramana accept the objective reality of the world experience, or deny it? If He accepted it, no inner transformation can be all-sufficing itself. An improvement of the external world order by a community of service would have to be accepted as a valid term of the metaphysic. If He denied it, then He suffered from the infirmities of illusionist (Maya Vadin).
Again, does not this thought lead to a barren, unfertilizing almost anti-social exclusiveness of concentration on oneself? Where is there in it room for the richness of social mingling, for the excellences of gregarious virtue? A pretty indictment could be drawn up, not only against Sri Ramana but against Sri Sankara, Buddha and all whom we might terms the Gnostic Seers.
continues....
M.ANANTANARAYANAN:
(former Chief Justice of Madras High Court - in the introduction of his book, a commentary on Upadesa Undiyar.)
continues....
Every problem, and each doubt, is met by the mystic only to be taken up into the plane of His habitual
perceptions, for the problems itself melts away in Truth. Sri Ramana denied the existence of a personal God (Iswara), for a profound reason which springs from the heart of His metaphysic. Thought is a creative force of Being, and the true parent of our world-experience and world order. That is why, He always stressed that world-experience is real, but relative and subordinate to ever present, blissful Being; not apart from it. Personal God too is a creature of thought, but that idea ought not to be misunderstood. It is not that we have created God in our own likeness, but that the false self, an apparently objective world experience, and a personal God, all spring simultaneously in Pure Being., by reason of a creative force not distinct from it. When Being is realized, the personal God disappears, along with the false 'I', and a fettering, external world order. But, He would have added, God was real enough; as real as our vivid griefs and pleasures.
Similarly, Sri Ramana gave significant answers to the centuried posers of free will in polar opposition to destiny, and of the existence of the evil. But the significance might appear perilously like evasion, until Truth is realized. Free will and destiny both play upon the individual self and constitute a problem of that self. But WHO is he that feels the problem? Who is conditioned by memory and growth, or free to initiate, to live creatively? Until this truth is known, the antinomy will persist unsolved. Evil is always in Meaning, and hence a creation of the limited self. But suffering cannot survive beyond the dualities which we have ourselves brought into illusory existence. In Pure Being, there is neither duality nor suffering.
When it came to talk of service, He was more incisive, His irony could be a corrosive acid to melt away impurities. To Him it was self deception of the worst kind to hunger for power for service, without an individual transformation. And it seems that He was right. It is a childish intellect that presumes that men are good or bad as they profess virtue or otherwise, that the adoption of beliefs can lead to regeneration, or that we shall arrive at peace by a tension of the energies of war. Apparently, the pursuit of virtue can lead to Hiroshima and the hydrogen bomb. Men can kill as easily in the name of truth and freedom, as in any other. We crave for Peace, but will not make an end of war. We convene conferences to limit the degree of cruelty that we will permit to nations, when engaged in mutual destruction. In ourselves we are greedy, violent, and lustful, though glib enough in citing the scriptures. The inner ever modifies and controls the outer, and hence our living is an expression of the chaos within. Until we achieve peace in ourselves, we shall not shed light on any path, ours or that of another. The vengeance of Truth is that Mercy, Pity and Peace, cultivated as qualities without the inner transormation, become, as Blake sang, but "Misery's increase". "He whose face gives no light, shall never become a Star."
continues....
M. ANANTANARAYANAN:
(former Chief Justice of Madras High
Court.)
(from the introduction of his book,
a commentary on Upadesa Undiyar.)
The Enquiry, Vichara, is not a mere introspection. Persisted in, it is no more focussing of thought, an exclusion of other thoughts. It grows into the embrace of a stainless Peace. It is 'off the thought waves.' The holding on to Being becomes the only spiritual effort, the constant adventure. To one who asked Him about partiality of the heart for children, which had survived other attachments in His case, Sri Ramana replied, "Hold on to the Self. Why think of children, or of your attitude to them?" The exhortation could sometimes be quaintly phrased, paradox always hovering near. To the neophyte intent on rendering national service, in the days of British rule, Sri Ramana affirmed, when asked if power could not be sought through spiritual life for the country's sake - "Your duty is not to be a patriot. It is TO BE."
Naturally, the most marvellous creations of the intellect failed to hold Him, or to command anything but a momentary admiration. Being childlike in His temperament, He was delighted with them as with a new toy, but His delight was short lived. It is not that He did not admire the materialistic achievements of science, but that He felt them to be merely peripheral, and even a source of misery, until man had found his true Self and home. He said - "To try to know the forms that exist in time and space, would be as nonsensical as for a man, who has just been shaved, or had had his hair cut, to brood over the fate of each of those hairs."
When a seeker who had made a careful study of Einstein's theory of Relativity, drew His attention to its concepts of time, space and the observer, He put the finger unerringly on the epistemological tangle which it had not attempted to solve. The theory assumed a multiplicity of observers, each with a distinct time-space reference. But the extraordinary truth was that the other observers also merely existed in the perceptions of oneself, and were hence relative to them. This was not for the denial of the existence of 'others', but to stress that in the realization of Being alone could the tangle be ever solved.
On the doctrine of the Heart Centre, its location in the body and the means of reaching it, nothing will be said here. That is a special study for the interested, of little importance in a broad exposition of Sri Ramana's thought. It is sufficient to note that, for him, Heart was again another word for Being, the sole Reality. Because we are unaware of the ever luminous Heart, we have given importance to the triad of the knower, the act of knowledge and the object known. They are but divisions of segregated thought. In Awareness, which is blissful, mental living is but the palest shadow. So it is said in the Ramana Gita:
The world is not other than the mind;
and the mind is not other than the Heart;
that is the whole Truth. (5.12)
The mortal is aware of the mind, only when,
the Heart has not blossomed, just as the,
moon is seen only when the Sun has not
appeared. (5.15)
His description of the Ego as a blend of the light of Pure Consciousness with the inert body, and hence a knot (granthi) must again be taken as an aid to clarity, not as a metaphysics in itself. He would have been the first to acknowledge that there was in truth no 'inert' body (jada) for the reason that Pure Being was the sole Reality. But we not merely perceive our bodies, but falsely identify ourselves with them. The ego is cunning and persistent. The Thinker seems to possess the plenary freedom of consciousness, but is at every moment conditioned
by the locus from which he springs into existence. "So", said Sri Ramana, as "pearl drivers fish for
pearls, we must plunge into ourselves, restraining speech and breath, to discover the pearl of our inheritance in Being."
concluded.
On the evening of Deepam I put a webcam on my roof to record the lighting of the fire on the summit of Arunachala. I notified a few friends in foreign countries whom I knew would be interested in watching, but I didn't advertise the event widely since I wasn't sure if it would work. I only had a low speed dongle and a cheap webcam to work with, and in previous years the local servers went down on Deepam day, unable to bear the strain of so many pilgrims trying to make calls from here at the same time.
I am happy to report that the 'broadcast' was a success, and anyone who wants to see it can watch a recording at: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/19006316.
If I do it again next year I will try to get a more sophisticated camera, one that will work well in a lower light.
Dear David,
Thank you for the useful information and the link, which we can use.
Subramanian. R
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