tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post7348398090413066802..comments2024-03-20T13:24:11.422+05:30Comments on Arunachala and Ramana Maharshi: Reincarnating jnanis?David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comBlogger244125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-57257239486092967692014-08-04T09:03:59.448+05:302014-08-04T09:03:59.448+05:30Liberation is absolute and irrevocable.Liberation is absolute and irrevocable.Jordan Loderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12854582597165195934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-77123467162162276662012-03-19T18:05:04.419+05:302012-03-19T18:05:04.419+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.Subramanian. Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07503810836611357841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-38658805892027916612012-03-19T16:17:25.542+05:302012-03-19T16:17:25.542+05:30Arvind,
Thanks a lot for correcting me and giving...Arvind,<br /><br />Thanks a lot for correcting me and giving a lucid explanation of the sutra quoted be me.<br /><br />I agree with you that the case of Sanatkumara and Bhrigu are quoted by the opponents. Still Sankaracharya also accepts these examples and he makes it clear that a class of Jnanis who are authorised to complete a mission do take re-birth. <br /><br />I understand that Bhagavan's & Papaji's statement that "a Jnani has no re-birth" is a general principle. At the same time, can we say that a Saint who takes re-birth has not yet attained Jnanam? I think there are exceptions to this rule as explained in the above-mentioned sutra of Badarayana.shankarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01567417267120255666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-60905834349629195542012-03-18T11:55:13.585+05:302012-03-18T11:55:13.585+05:30Hi Shankara, folks,
Re Brahmasutra 3.3.32 & S...Hi Shankara, folks,<br /><br />Re Brahmasutra 3.3.32 & Sri Shankara’s Bhasya thereof:<br /><br />The Sutra itself only mentions, “Those who have a mission to fulfill continue in the corporeal state as long as the mission demands it.”<br /><br />Sri Sankara brings in the instances of Sanatkumara and Bhrigu being reborn as “purvapaksin” (opponents) views in the commentary. <i>They are not his own views.</i> To lay down doctrine Sri Sankara first presents the “opponents” arguments. It is the “opponents” who quote from Purana and Itihasa giving the stories of Sanatkumara & Bhrigu for instance, in favour of the reincarnating Jnanis argument. There are no quotes from “core” scripture to support this view. Sri Sankara then counters the same by quoting from Chandogya, Mundaka, the Bhagavad Gita & others. Though the sage Bhrigu is indeed mentioned in the first sutra of the Taittiriya, that is only coincidental as the context therein is quite different. In fact, Taittiriya 3.1.1. is not quoted at all in the commentary for this sutra.<br /><br />Not gonna present Sri Sankara’s whole argument here to explain the taking up of new bodies by Sanatkumara & Bhrigu as mentioned in Smriti, it is long and complex. In my humble opinion, he distinguishes between “reincarnation” for an ordinary Jiva who achieves Liberation via practice, and the “taking up of several bodies” by Avatars and “Born-Realised-Souls” for the larger good. Again, as he is laying down doctrine he has to explain the Smriti texts somehow even tho’ they may sometimes have multifarious ideas intended for the not so mature seekers. Suffice to say that he clearly states, like Sri Bhagavan did, that Jnana burns-off all the seeds of Karma for a Jiva leaving nothing behind to sprout afresh, and that constitutes final and ultimate release with no births to follow.<br /><br />Best wishesArvind Lalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08360948041915924290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-73056307485479081892012-03-17T09:01:27.342+05:302012-03-17T09:01:27.342+05:30Friends,
Talking in a lighter vein on this subject...Friends,<br />Talking in a lighter vein on this subject:<br />In a Geometry class where the subject of the day was the study of the Properties of a triangle-the sum of two sides of a triangle is greater than the third side:<br /> Teacher said:"Let us assume,that the third side is equal or longer than the sum of the other two sides"<br /><br />Student(to another fellow student):I suspected this right when this fellow walked into the class.He does not know,he is also assuming.Had he known the proof of the Truth,he should have proved it straight away without assuming."Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-54703592704867929902012-03-17T08:11:50.998+05:302012-03-17T08:11:50.998+05:30Shankara/David,
I continue to agree as well as dis...Shankara/David,<br />I continue to agree as well as disagree with David!<br />Here is an excerpt from The Letters of Sri Ramanasramam that I have posted earlier in this thread:<br />(11) A GARLAND OF UPADESAS<br />Once a devotee asked, “What is the import of the upadesa<br />(communication of an initiatory mantra or formula) of Lord<br />Krishna contained in the following verse of the Gita?”<br />paritranaya sadhunam vinasayacha dushkrutam<br />dharmasamstapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge<br />Bhagavan: (with a smile on his face) “What is the<br />difficulty about it? It means for the protection of the virtuous,<br />for the destruction of evildoers and for establishing dharma,<br />I am born from age to age. This is easily understandable.”<br />Devotee: “That is not my point, Bhagavan. Lord<br />Krishna says, ‘I will be born; I will protect’. Does it mean<br />that He will be born again and again?”<br />Bhagavan: “Oho, is that your doubt?<i> When Mahatmas<br />talk of ‘I’ they do not speak of the body</i>. That ‘I’ means I along<br />with ahamkarana which becomes ahankara (ahamkarana means<br />mind, buddhi, chitta and ahankara). That which is freed from<br />the ahamkarana is Atma. When that I becomes bahirmukha, i.e.,<br />outer-directed it becomes worldly and when it is inner-directed<br />antarmukha, it becomes aham-sphurana, all-pervading.”<br />Devotee: “If that is so, sastras say that without prarabdha<br />no one is born into this world. Where is the question of<br />prarabdha for Paramatma?”<br />Bhagavan: “<i>There is no need to doubt the sastras.<br />Paramatma is nishkriya (without action). How can he have<br />prarabdha, you say. The reply to your doubt is in that verse<br />itself</i>. The verse says, ‘When the evil-doers hurt the virtuous,<br />the latter pray to God by doing puja, japa, tapas, yagna and<br />other good deeds to relieve them of the tortures inflicted on<br />them by the evildoers. The bad deeds of the evildoers and the<br />good deeds of the virtuous result in prarabdha and <i>God comes<br />down to the earth assuming a form — an avatar — that is known<br />as pareccha prarabdha</i>.”<br /><br />This is an emphatic,unequivocal view of Sri Bhagavan on the particular verse-'paritrAnAya sAdhunAm,vinAsAyacha dushkritAm'.<br />I have also posted what Sri Ramakrishna has said regarding 'ishwara kotis' who are not born of any prArabda but grace the terra firma for lOka sangraha.<br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />We may understand this in a simple fashion as follows:<br />Let us say that we are a student studying in school.Unless we study well and pass the examination, we will not be allowed to Graduate from schooling.Once we graduate from School,we do not return to school;schooling is finished for us.yet,a few may return to school as Teachers,not out of any compulsion to learn and Graduate,but to teach others.<br />Whether they are in the school or out of it does not make a weebit of difference as far as their Learning is concerned.<br />Likewise,whether the Body is there or not,whether another body is assumed or not,a jnAni remains a jnAni or jnAnaswarupa all the time.It is only in the Eyes of others that he is born or reborn-as far as he is concerned he is ever the same.<br /><br />Namaskar.Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-2271433483312712312012-03-17T07:26:00.994+05:302012-03-17T07:26:00.994+05:30From Guru Ramana, by S. S. Cohen
15th June, 1938
...From Guru Ramana, by S. S. Cohen<br /><br />15th June, 1938<br />HIS VIDEHAMUKTI (after death):<br /><br />The “Vision” (of Anandashram, Kanhangad) for June contains an article by Sri Bhagavan. It is a Preface to his translation into Tamil of Vivekachudamani of Sri Shankaracharya which has been translated by Mr. S. Krishna into English for the “Vision”. Mr. C. reads it to himself in the Hall. Struck by the following statement, he reads it aloud to Sri Bhagavan: “The liberated man is free indeed to act as he pleases, and when he leaves the mortal coil, he attains absolution, but returns not to this birth which is actually death.”<br /><br />C.This statement gives the impression that although the Jnani takes no birth again on this plane, he may continue to work on subtler planes, if he so chooses. Is there any desire left in him to choose?<br /><br />Bh. No, that was not my intention.<br />C. Further, an Indian philosopher [Radhakrishnan], in one of his books, interpreting Shankara, says that there is no such thing as videhamukti, for after his death, the Mukta takes a body of light in which he remains till the whole humanity becomes liberated.<br /><br />Bh. That cannot be Shankara’s views (he opens Vivekachudamani and points to verse 566 which reads that after the dissolution of the physical sheath the liberated man becomes like “water poured into water and oil into oil”). It is a state wherein there is neither bondage nor liberation. Taking another body means throwing a veil, however subtle, upon Reality, which is bondage. Liberation is absolute and irrevocable.<br /><br />Cohen then added a note of his own: In his Atma-Bodha, stanza 53, Shankara says the same thing as in verse 566 of Vivekachudamani.David Godmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-33632563982598814452012-03-16T21:31:48.591+05:302012-03-16T21:31:48.591+05:30Sir,
Sri Sankaracharya in his commentary on Brahm...Sir,<br /><br />Sri Sankaracharya in his commentary on Brahmasutra mentions many instances of Jnanis taking birth again for lokasangraha. In fact this is the topic of discussion in the "Yavad Adhikara Adhikaranam" (Brahmasutra 3.3.32). He quotes Chandogya Upanishad 7.26.2 and Taittiriya Upanishad 3.1.1 and says that Sanatkumara and Bhrugu took birth again even after attaining Jnana.<br /><br />I would like to hear from you on this.shankarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01567417267120255666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-66351287407122625372011-09-09T07:38:10.762+05:302011-09-09T07:38:10.762+05:30Dear friends, Does anyone know how to obtain Ma So...Dear friends, Does anyone know how to obtain Ma Souris's book A memory? Is it available in the ashram?hey judenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-37349733974392347492011-09-09T06:08:39.616+05:302011-09-09T06:08:39.616+05:30[...contd]
"Then Brahma and the Assembly and...[...contd]<br /><br />"Then Brahma and the Assembly and all its members wondered<br />and marvelled at that, and they said: 'It is wonderful, sirs, it is marvellous!<br />This monk Gotama who went forth from a Sakyan clan has<br />such great power and might as we have never before seen in any other<br />monk or brahman! Sirs, though living in a generation that delights<br />in being, loves being, finds gladness in being, he has extirpated being<br />together with its root!'<br />"Then Mara the Evil One entered into a member of the Assembly,<br />and he said: 'Good sir, if that is what you know, if that is<br />what you have discovered, do not lead your lay disciples to it or<br />those gone forth, do not teach them your Dhamma or create in<br />them a yearning for it. Before your time, bhikkhu, there were<br />monks and brahmans in the world claiming to be accomplished and<br />fully enlightened, and they did that; but on the dissolution of the<br />body when their breath was cut off, they became established in an<br />inferior body. Before your time, bhikkhu, there were also such monks<br />and brahmans in the world, and they did not do that; and on the<br />dissolution of the body, when their breath was cut off, they became<br />established in a superior body. So, bhikkhu, I tell you this: Be sure,<br />good sir, to abide inactive; devote yourself to a pleasant abiding here<br />and now. This is better left undeclared, good sir, and so inform no<br />one else of it at all.'<br />"When this was said, I replied: 'I know you, Evil One. It is not<br />out of compassion or desire for my welfare that you speak thus.<br />You are thinking that those to whom I teach this Dhamma will<br />go beyond your reach. Those monks and brahmans of yours who<br />claimed to be accomplished and fully enlightened were not really so;<br />but I am, as I claim to be, accomplished and fully enlightened. A<br />Perfect One is such whether he teaches his Dhamma to disciples or<br />not, whether he leads his disciples to it or not. Why is that? Because<br />such taints as defile, as renew being, as bring anxiety, as ripen in<br />suffering, as produce future birth, ageing and death, are in him cut<br />off at the root, made like palm tree stumps, done away with, so that<br />they are no more subject to future arising, just as a palm tree is incapable<br />of further growth when its crown is cut off.' So, since Mara<br />had nothing more to say, and on account of Brahma's invitation (to<br />me to vanish), this discourse may be termed 'On the Invitation of<br />a Brahma."<br />M. 49Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529540057558347821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-9430445740653696692011-09-09T06:07:18.744+05:302011-09-09T06:07:18.744+05:30[...cont]
'I know that too, Brahma. But I unde...[...cont]<br />'I know that too, Brahma. But I understand your reach and your<br />sway thus: Brahma Baka's power, his might, his following, extend<br />thus far and no further.'<br />'Now, good sir, how far do you understand my reach and my<br />sway to extend?'" 'As far as moon and sun do circulate<br />Shining and lighting up the four directions,<br />Over a thousand times as wide a world<br />Your power can exert its influence.<br />And there you know the high and low as well,<br />And those governed by lust and free from lust,<br />The state of what is thus and otherwise,<br />And creatures' provenance and destination.<br />'Thus far do I understand your reach and sway to extend. Yet<br />there are three other main bodies of Brahma gods which you neither<br />know nor see, and which I know and see. There is the body called<br />Abhassara (of Streaming Radiance) whence you passed away and reappeared<br />here. But with long dwelling here your memory of it has<br />lapsed, and so you no more know or see it, but I know and see it.<br />Standing thus, as I do, not on the same level of direct knowledge as<br />you, it is not less that I know, but more. And likewise with the still<br />higher bodies of the Subhakinna (of Refulgent Glory) and the Vehapphala<br />(of Great Fruit).'Now, Brahma, having had direct knowledge of earth as earth,<br />and having had direct knowledge of what is not co-essential with the<br />earthness of earth, I did not claim to be earth,7 did not claim to<br />be in earth, I did not claim to be apart from earth, I did not claim<br />earth to be mine, I made no affirmation about earth. Having had<br />direct knowledge of water as water ... of fire ... air ... beings ... gods<br />.... Pajapati ... Brahma ... the Abhassara ... the Subhakinna ... the<br />Vehapphala ... the Transcendent Being (Abhibhu) ... Having had<br />direct knowledge of all as all, and having had direct knowledge of<br />what is not co-essential with the allness of all, I did not claim to be<br />all, I did not claim to be in all, I did not claim to be apart from<br />all, I did not claim all to be mine, I made no affirmation about all.<br />Standing thus, too, as I do, it is not less that I know, but more.'<br />146 THE LIFE OF THE BUDDHA<br />'Good sir, if you claim to have access to what is not coessential<br />with the allness of all, may you not be proved vain and empty!'<br />" 'The consciousness that makes no showing<br />Nor has to do with finiteness,<br />Claiming no being apart from all:<br />that is not co-essential with the earthness of earth, with the waterness<br />of water ... with the allness of all.'<br />" 'Then, good sir, I will vanish from you.'<br />" 'Then, Brahma, vanish from me if you can.'<br />"Then Brahma Baka, thinking 'I will vanish from the monk<br />Gotama; I will vanish from the monk Gotama,' was unable to do so.<br />I said: 'Then, Brahma, I will vanish from you.'<br />'Then, good sir, vanish from me if you can.'<br />"I made a determination of supernormal power thus: 'Just to the<br />extent of Brahma and the Assembly, let them hear the sound of my<br />voice without seeing me,' and after I had vanished, I uttered this<br />stanza:<br />" 'I have seen fear in every mode of being<br />Including being seeking for non-being;<br />There is no mode of being I affirm,<br />No relish whatsoever whereto I cling.'Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529540057558347821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-74285693349402277902011-09-09T06:05:31.215+05:302011-09-09T06:05:31.215+05:30Life of the Buddha by Nanamoli
*******************...Life of the Buddha by Nanamoli<br />*************************<br />NARRATOR Two. The Buddha told the bhikkhus of a visit made to<br />the high heavens of the Brahma-world.<br />FIRST VOICE. "Bhikkhus, on one occasion when I was living at<br />Ukkattha in the Subhaga Grove at the root of a royal sala tree, there<br />had arisen in the Brahma Baka a pernicious view (of his own permanence<br />and absoluteness). I became aware in mind of the thought in<br />the Brahma's mind, and ... I appeared in that world. The Brahma<br />Baka saw me coming, and he said: 'Come, good sir! Welcome, good<br />sir! It is long, good sir, since you made an occasion to come here.<br />Now, good sir, this is permanent, this is everlasting, this is eternal,<br />this is totality, this is not subject to passing away; for this neither is<br />born nor ages nor dies nor passes away nor reappears, and beyond this<br />there is no escape.'"Then Mara the Evil One entered into a member of the Brahma's<br />assembly, and he told me: 'Bhikkhu, bhikkhu, do not disbelieve<br />him, do not disbelieve him; for this Brahma is the Great Brahma,<br />Transcendent Being untranscended, Sure-sighted Wielder of Mastery,<br />Lord Maker and Creator, Most High Providence, Master and<br />Father of those that are and ever can be. Before your time, bhikkhu,<br />144 THE LIFE OF THE BUDDHA<br />there were monks and brahmans in the world who condemned earth<br />through disgust with earth, who condemned water ... fire ... air ...<br />beings ... gods ... Pajapati, Lord of the Race ... who condemned<br />Brahma through disgust with Brahma; now on the dissolution of the<br />body, when their breath was cut off, they became established in an<br />inferior body. Before your time, bhikkhu, there were monks and brahmans<br />in the world who lauded all these through love of them; now<br />on the dissolution of the body, when their breath was cut off, they<br />became established in a superior body. So, bhikkhu, I tell you this: Be<br />sure, good sir, to do only as Brahma says. Never overstep Brahma's<br />word; for if you do that, bhikkhu, then you will be like a man who<br />tries to deflect a beam of light with a stick when it comes upon him,<br />or like a man who loses his hold of the earth with his hands and feet as<br />he slips into a deep abyss. Be sure, good sir, to do only as Brahma says.<br />Never overstep Brahma's word. Do you not see the Divine Assembly<br />seated here, bhikkhu?' And Mara the Evil One thus called the Divine<br />Assembly to witness."When this was said, I told Mara the Evil One: 'I know you, Evil<br />One; do not fancy 'He does not know me.' You are Mara the Evil<br />One, and Brahma and the Divine Assembly with all its members have<br />all fallen into your hands, they have all fallen into your power. You,<br />Evil One, think that I have fallen into your power too; but that is not<br />so.'"When this was said, Brahma Baka told me: 'Good sir, I say of<br />the permanent that it is permanent, of the everlasting that it is everlasting,<br />of the eternal that it is eternal, of totality that it is totality, of<br />what is not subject to passing away that it is not subject to passing<br />away, of what neither is born nor ages nor dies nor passes away nor<br />reappears, that it neither is born nor ages nor dies nor passes away<br />nor reappears, and of that beyond which there is no escape, that<br />there is no escape beyond it. Before your time, bhikkhu, there were<br />monks and brahmans in the world whose asceticism lasted as long<br />as your whole life. They knew, when there was an escape beyond,<br />that there was an escape beyond, and, when there was no escape<br />beyond, that there was no escape beyond. So, bhikkhu, I tell you<br />this: Beyond this you will find no escape, and in trying to do so<br />you will eventually reap weariness and disappointment. If you will<br />believe in6 earth ... in water ... in fire ... in air ... in beings ...<br />in gods ... in Pajapati ... If you will believe in Brahma you will<br />THE END OF THE FIRST TWENTY YEARS 145<br />be one to lie near me, to lie within my province, as you will be for me<br />to work my will upon and punish.'<br />" <br /><br />[contd...]Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529540057558347821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-5345161654100020442010-11-17T08:51:32.204+05:302010-11-17T08:51:32.204+05:30Kandhan,"...Someone please answer this as I a...Kandhan,<br><br>"...Someone please answer this as I am torn between surrender to samadhis of Guru and self-enquiry."<br><br>I too am with you on the same page and this doubt haunts me even today. <br><br>But, practically, I found that it somehow works. If I go and pray earnestly at the samadhi of a Jnani, something happens. There is this "Automatic Divine Action" explanation but I am at a loss to understand how it can happen when the Jnani is not alive.<br><br>However, the explanation I myself am content in giving myself is a saying from Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. He says that while God exists everywhere, He is particularly manifest in Holy places. He says that while water exits everywhere, it is easy to get it in a Well and holy places are like Wells. A place where a Jnani lives/lived is definetely a Holy place and hence the Well-theory should work.<br><br>Now, beyond all logical explanations, I find that if I sit on the ground of the Old Hall in Ashram OR on the ground having the couch of Sri Ramakrishna in small hall where he lived, my mind definetely feels holy and purified. There is something definetely going on in the atmosphere there.<br><br>Regards MuraliMuralihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04720150736535781474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-22571874180854617592010-11-17T08:51:31.987+05:302010-11-17T08:51:31.987+05:30Kandhan againSorry, but I forgot to address your m...Kandhan again<br><br>Sorry, but I forgot to address your main query:<br><br>If so, can any benefit be derived from samadhis of Gnanis. Someone please answer this as I am torn between surrender to samadhis of Guru and self-enquiry.<br><br>It is my belief and experience that there is a power in the samadhi of Bhagavan that is spiritually beneficial for those who feel it and choose to focus on it. I could extend that statement to the whole of Ramanasramam, and not just restrict it to the immediate vicinity of the samadhi. There is a power there that I am sure has come from Bhagavan's long association with the place. That particular location is soaked and imbued with his presence. Even Lakshmana Swamy, who occasionally says that samadhi shrines do not contain the power of the living Guru, once said that there is a strong residual power in Ramanasramam that comes from Bhagavan having been there for so long. He said that he noticed it every time he came to visit.<br><br>Oddly enough, different people feel it in different places and at different times. Some people find the old hall more powerful than the samadhi hall, and some people feel the power more strongly at a particular time of day. <br><br>I once asked Papaji if spending all my time editing Bhagavan's words and stories was a distraction from what I should be really doing. <br><br>He replied, 'Any association with Bhagavan is a blessing. You have been drawn to think about his words all the time. That is a good satsang because those words have power, and while you are thinking about them, you are in contact with Bhagavan.'<br><br>Something similar could be said to anyone who feels drawn to the samadhi as a focus for his or her devotion to Bhagavan: if it keeps your attention on Bhagavan, it is both satsang and a blessing.David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-41260747795782743762010-11-17T08:51:31.017+05:302010-11-17T08:51:31.017+05:30Losing M Mind said...I want to learn more about M...Losing M Mind said...<br><br>I want to learn more about Maurice Frydman. He sounds as brilliant and interesting as all of the one's that David Godman has already edited books about.<br><br>I have been doing research on him intermittently for the last few months. I have found people who knew him and who are willing to speak to me about his life and achievements. I have also discovered many interesting and little known facts about him. If I manage to assemble enough material, I will probably make him the subject of a new book. <br><br>The project started as a potential blog post last year. I gave up on it as a blog post when I had assembled about fifty pages of notes. It is now turning into something much longer. I have no idea how long it will take, or how big the final presentation will be, but I will probably include advance excerpts here if I find anything that is particularly interesting.David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-78463458889374771572010-11-17T08:51:28.064+05:302010-11-17T08:51:28.064+05:30.... WHY do they come back into the dream ...They ....<br><br><i>... WHY do they come back into the dream ...</i><br><br>They don't come back into the dream because all this is a dream - the awakened, the jnani, the unawakend and anyone and anything else you can see and think of.<br><br>You believe that there is something like "reality" and "unreality", and now you try to differentiate between reality and unreality, but it isn't so. All this are simply ideas.<br><br>When you awake you awake to this fact - that all is like a dream including your "awakening".<br><br>You awake as a dreamer in a dream dreaming to be awakened.<br><br>Reality is what remains after the understanding of this.<br><br>Reality is the only existing thing - all else are ideas of the projecting mind.<br><br>The jnanis use words to explain things being by nature undescribable - and they know that. They know that the ajnanis cannot understand this. They utter their words like the wind which goes here and there (but it doesn't mean nonsense for them). They know that there is no owner of their bodies, speeches and deeds. They have thrown away the myth of being a person having personal experiences because they now know the true difference between an individual experience and a personal experience.<br><br>For the jnani all is an endless streams of pictures and experiences having no owner. Listen to them - they talk endless about that.<br><br>.Clemens Vargas Ramoshttp://dkw.spacequadrat.denoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-86283939826937961312010-11-17T08:51:27.305+05:302010-11-17T08:51:27.305+05:30Nice posting. Do you know about this edition of th...Nice posting. Do you know about this edition of the Gita?<br><br>http://www.YogaVidya.com/gita.htmlsfauthorhttp://www.yogavidya.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-61291963849689565782010-11-17T08:51:25.220+05:302010-11-17T08:51:25.220+05:30On the morning of 9th March 1946,Dr. Masalavala, i...On the morning of 9th March 1946,<br>Dr. Masalavala, inter-alia, asked the following:<br><br>Q: Bhagavan says 'The influence of<br>the Jnani stels into the devotee<br>in silence.' Bhagavan also says:<br>'Contact with great men, exalted souls, is one efficacious means of realizing one's true being.'<br><br>B: Yes. What is the contradiction?<br><br>Q: No.<br><br>B: Contact with them is good. They will work through silence. By speaking, their power is reduced.<br>Silence is most powerful. Speech<br>is always less powerful than silence. So mental contact is the best.<br><br>Q: Does this hold good even after the dissolution of the physical body of the Jnani or is it true only so long as he is in flesh and blood?<br><br>B: Guru is not the physical form. So the contact will remain even after physical form of the Guru vanishes.<br><br>Q: Similarly, does the contact of a devotee with his Guru continues after the passing of the Guru or does it stop?....<br><br>B: As already explained, Guru not being physical form, his contact will continue after his form vanishes. If one Jnani exists in the world, his influence will be felt by or benefit all people in the world and not simply his immeidate disciples, bhaktas, those who are indifferent to him and those who are even hostile and it is said in the following verse that all these classes will be benefited by the existence of a Jnani. (Then, Vedanta Chudamani<br>verse is quoted.) Meaning: Four<br>classes of people are benefited by Jivanmuktas, by his faith in the Jivanmuktas, the disciples attain mukti, the bhakta who worships his Guru attains merit, the indifferent who have seen the sacred life of the Jivanmukta acquire desire for righteousness and even the sinners (ie. the hostile in the first verse) get rid of their sins by the mere fact of their having had darshan of such saints. <br><br>(From Day by Day)Subramanian. Rhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07503810836611357841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-73665286925619061102010-11-17T08:51:24.960+05:302010-11-17T08:51:24.960+05:30Ramos,I find that i did not respond to this respon...Ramos,<br>I find that i did not respond to this response of yours.<br>"Reality is doing all this - the mutts of Sankara, the Meru Chakra, the legal grounds and anything else. Please remove in all your questions simply the "i" - nothing else is needed."<br><br>It is not clear whether I have given the 'premise' behind these questions.The Point is not whether it is Sankara or the 'Reality' that is behind this activity.<br><br>The Key point is FOR WHOM all this Required?If Reality alone exists,none of this is called for-unless the 'Reality' had a Fancy to build a few ashrams and mutts!<br><br>The Point is that even the Jnanis(or TRUTH or REALITY if you prefer to call it so) who denied the very Presence of the 'World',or atleast viewed it as Transitory,Temporal Reflection of Truth,did their utmost to ensure that the KNOWLEDGE and TEACHINGS are preserved for 'Others'. <br><br>THEY DID NOT NEGLECT EMPIRICAL REALITY.THEY DID NOT DISMISS IT.This is one theme that 'i' have tried to express in various ways.<br><br>Great Sages have taught to 'Reject' the 'World' to seek Truth;they have again taught to 'Accept' the 'World' to seek Truth!<br><br>This 'Rejection' as well as 'Acceptance' have gone hand in hand!<br><br>Namaskar.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-60760793037841709922010-11-17T08:51:23.945+05:302010-11-17T08:51:23.945+05:30.Basically it is impossible for the ajnani to make....<br><br>Basically it is impossible for the <i>ajnani</i> to make sense of the words of the <i>jnani</i>. Therefore the nondualistic Zen patriarch Huang Po said: "When listening to the words of the <i>dharma</i> try to understand this as the wind caressing your ears."<br><br>.Clemens Vargas Ramoshttp://dkw.spacequadrat.denoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-51564992863383660152010-11-17T08:51:22.844+05:302010-11-17T08:51:22.844+05:30The blessed Crow that died in Ramanas hand. Did th...The blessed Crow that died in Ramanas hand. Did that just happen? Or was the Crow a Siddha, a divine bird that sought out Ramana? The Maharshi did not seem to think it was an ordinary bird and subsequently a small Samadhi was built for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-85323595515587974482010-11-17T08:51:22.307+05:302010-11-17T08:51:22.307+05:30Murali,Bhagavan's Samadhi faces East. Bhagavan...Murali,<br><br>Bhagavan's Samadhi faces East. Bhagavan sits underground, facing Arunachala, which is to his North.Nandu Narasimhanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18017383698302259046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-78178210672092394462010-11-17T08:51:21.822+05:302010-11-17T08:51:21.822+05:30KandhanApologies for implying that you alone shoul...Kandhan<br><br>Apologies for implying that you alone should stay on topic. The reminder that this thread should be used to comment on this post alone was intended for all the readers, but I didn't word it as well as I could have done.<br><br>I have been out all day. I will respond tomorrow to some of the many comments and questions posted.David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-52349185652247917632010-11-17T08:51:21.494+05:302010-11-17T08:51:21.494+05:30O.K, it's settled on Jnanis, but what about a-...O.K, it's settled on Jnanis, but what about a-jnanis? Do they reincarnate? How to know?Losing M. Mindhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08593870441560584967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-30070262451810168572010-11-17T08:51:21.136+05:302010-11-17T08:51:21.136+05:30David,You had mentioned that Maurice Frydman was t...David,<br><br>You had mentioned that Maurice Frydman was the consultant on an old Hindi film.<br><br>Would you know the name? I am a bit of a follower of those old Hindi films from the '50s and '60s.<br><br>Would be nice if a copy can be obtained.<br><br>Nandu NarasimhanNandu Narasimhanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18017383698302259046noreply@blogger.com