tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post6985986843064713787..comments2024-03-20T13:24:11.422+05:30Comments on Arunachala and Ramana Maharshi: An open thread on vicharaDavid Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comBlogger556125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-77213385743255304162011-07-08T23:17:09.300+05:302011-07-08T23:17:09.300+05:30@Murali
"Our minds are used to always handle...@Murali<br /><br />"Our minds are used to always handle things which are concrete and this ego is very subtle. You cannot touch and feel, nor visualise it. It is vague."<br /><br />I think what adds further to it is that we unkowingly many times try to find it objectiely. I feel thats the crux of the problem.Maneeshahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15693008674509444946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-13241572537528774142011-07-08T23:12:16.354+05:302011-07-08T23:12:16.354+05:30@Z,
That was interesting that you brought up the ...@Z,<br /><br />That was interesting that you brought up the miseries post-marriage of Sri Rama to which we prolly dont pay much attn et al. <br /><br />"Then I thought for Godssake God , the Father of the entire universe himself did not have a few good moments of what is generally regarded as the most perfect match of the most eligible bachelors and that which was overseen by all the Gods and angels of this universe.Do I pray to this God to mitigate my suffering.He probably will say:look my son all I have gone thru is suffering;I can share with you some; that is all I have:)<br />"<br />Brought a smile on my face... :)Maneeshahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15693008674509444946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-48708284522441975282011-07-07T14:59:35.850+05:302011-07-07T14:59:35.850+05:30Murali,
This is not a joke.This is a widely...Murali,<br /> This is not a joke.This is a widely known and current practise among Theravada Buddhists in Thailand where devotees offer their dead bodies to be skinned and hung in the rooms of Bhikkus fresh after death.When the spirit comes back they have to remain steady not pass out.This is to conquer fear and fear of death or you can try to keep a skull under ur pillow every night kiss a good bye and try to sleep and kiss a good morning if it did not disturb you overnight or like Ravi quotes beat your chest and cry in a temple every day.Suit yourself mate.<br /><br />Personally I would find out the root of that fear or I would busy myself with some hobby or observe that fear(mindfullness) or introspect what is causing that fear or look around and you will see everyone is into fear at one time or the other and sometimes there is no other way but to bite the bullet and say come on you bitch bring it on and brace that fear.There is no shortcut.There is only great pain in anything for the first few times and then u get used to it and wudn't give a toss to it after that.THERE IS NO REAL SHORTCUT AND NO REAL ADVICE.<br /><br />Once I thought I was miserable and then got invited to a grand celebration of SitaRama Kalyanam and there the Pundit was saying we re-enact this Kalyaanam for thousands of years but did they really enjoy anything.Soon after marriage he was sent away to forests and then Ravana took away and then Ravana was killed and she was brought back and most inhumanly sent away to forests while pregnant and then she committed suicide.Then I thought for Godssake God , the Father of the entire universe himself did not have a few good moments of what is generally regarded as the most perfect match of the most eligible bachelors and that which was overseen by all the Gods and angels of this universe.Do I pray to this God to mitigate my suffering.He probably will say:look my son all I have gone thru is suffering;I can share with you some; that is all I have:)<br /><br />There is no shortcut nor no real advise mate, there is only comforting.Take it easy.<br /><br />Regards,<br />-ZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-44301166810386361262011-07-07T14:25:02.765+05:302011-07-07T14:25:02.765+05:30If Self-enquiry is diving deep then there are two ...If Self-enquiry is diving deep then there are two problems:<br /><br />1)Diving deep into the body space(our idea of our body/head cave space and then getting to the core of that mental space)<br /><br />2)Diving outer that which ends up as observing the consciousness<br /><br />3)Observing the observer ends up in endless loop of a jumping monkey<br /><br />4)For me holding on to the feeling of 'I' is memory,Then I have to say 'I' 'I' every so many seconds to get a snapshot/memory of 'I' and then watch that snapshot.<br /><br />5)If I try to say who is watching this 'I' or looking for 'I' then simultaneosly the 'I' jumps and forms a new thought.So one can never catch the 'I' becuase the one who looks for the source of the 'I' is itself the 'I'.This will end in endless loop.<br /><br />From BAYR<br />*********<br />In the early stages of practice attention to the feeling ‘I’ is a mental activity which takes the form of a thought or a<br />perception. As the practice develops the thought ‘I’ gives way to a subjectively experienced feeling of ‘I’, and when<br />this feeling ceases to connect and identify with thoughts and objects it completely vanishes. What remains is an<br />experience of being in which the sense of individuality has temporarily ceased to operate. The experience may be<br />intermittent at first but with repeated practice it becomes easier and easier to reach and maintain.<br />****<br />I have practised very little probably less than 4 hours to make further comments.Those that have tried for months and years will surely know more about these phases that every body goes through and the pitfalls.<br /><br />Next time when I try I will try to slow-motion this question who is looking for the 'I' question and see if I can catch the jumping 'I'.<br /><br /><br />Regards,<br />-ZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-61280241435484815112011-07-07T13:53:03.206+05:302011-07-07T13:53:03.206+05:30Could not resist writing an additional comment.
O...Could not resist writing an additional comment.<br /><br />One of the clues I have taken for myself as to how to increase the urge to find the Self is from the 2nd sloka of Sad-darsanam Invovation.<br /><br />"Those who are in dread of death when they seek refuge at<br />the feet of the deathless, birthless Lord Supreme, their ego<br />and attachments die; and they, now deathless, think no more<br />of death."<br /><br />Looks like the longing for the Self comes when the fear of death captures our mind. Suppose there is no death, then why will anyone try to seek anything outside the mundane world - unless he is bored to the core by the shallow-ness of the world?<br /><br />I heard from my Muslim friends that the Prophet used to advocate frequent visits to the burial grounds to get a proper perspective of life.<br /><br />From my side, I try to entertain often the thought of impending death. I try to count my age reverse - i.e., how many possible years are left for me etc., I try to attend all kinds of death funerals. These might be perverted ways but I am hopeful that mind might catch hold of the inevitability of death and possibly develop a longing to reach the feet of "Mrityunjaya".<br /><br />Any comments from others?<br /><br />REgards MuraliMuralihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04720150736535781474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-47076006218072010682011-07-07T09:55:43.184+05:302011-07-07T09:55:43.184+05:30Maneesha Wrote:
"Why is it so difficult to u...Maneesha Wrote:<br /><br />"Why is it so difficult to understand what enquiry is? "<br /><br />This was bothering me too. Apart from lack of "overwhelming urge to find the Self", I find that the vagueness of ego is another factor. Our minds are used to always handle things which are concrete and this ego is very subtle. You cannot touch and feel, nor visualise it. It is vague.<br /><br />Here is something which Frank Humphreys wrote in this regard. He is the first western disciple of Bhagavan:<br /><br />"....try to keep the mind unshakenly fixed on That Which Sees. It is inside yourself. Do not expect to find that "That'' is something definite on which the mind can be fixed easily; it will not be so."<br /><br />Many times, I get fed up with the vagueness of this Feeling of I and the mind goes back to its natural pasteurs. I think the only way is to increase the urge to find the Self and keep praying.<br /><br />Regards MuraliMuralihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04720150736535781474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-34037082282577203212011-07-07T07:42:17.395+05:302011-07-07T07:42:17.395+05:30:) As I was ging thru the comments last nite, came...:) As I was ging thru the comments last nite, came across David commenting that Many people pay attn to the "I feeling" than enquiring to the source itself. It did strike me but this morning I realized I had somehow lost my track and realized have been doing the same (concentrating on the i-feeling); best part being that I did not realize that this was what I was doing! <br /><br />Back on track now. Felt so glad, cudnt resist posting this early morning... TIme for me to get ready for office now. Gud day!Maneeshahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15693008674509444946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-57610534746778605902011-07-07T00:10:06.032+05:302011-07-07T00:10:06.032+05:30Nearly three years since this! :)
Neway, had been...Nearly three years since this! :)<br /><br />Neway, had been to Ashram in last weekend and Sri Nochur Venkataraman had given talks on Ulladu NArpadu the week before the weekend. On Sunday, a talk from him in English was arranged. He made a remark "ENquiry when done in right way..." i don't recollect rest of his sentence, but this rang a bell in me. Now, somehow I recollected his words and i also remembered that David had said that he knew of only one person that had enquired only once and got it right and that was Bhagavan :) <br /><br />Coming to the point... What exactly is the "right way" of vichara? What is meant? Indeed, blessed are those who could experience what Bhagavan told, when He did... We have to put so much effort into understanding what exactly the finger is pointing at!! :'(<br /><br />Why is it so difficult to understand what enquiry is?Maneeshahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15693008674509444946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-30456366062571122812010-11-17T09:05:24.388+05:302010-11-17T09:05:24.388+05:30Here is what I do in implementing Vichara.In my ca...Here is what I do in implementing Vichara.<br><br>In my case, I am finding that banging the ego in two directions - by both Vichara and Surrender is looking effective. <br><br>1. Vichara: I pretty much follow what David has elaborated. Focusing on the feeling of I while rejecting other thoughts. One thought which helps me is to remember that the mind is always in two states...i.e., the state of "lost in thoughts" and the state of "not lost in thoughts". I think that the state of "not lost in thoughts" is almost same as focusing on the feeling of I. I used to get confused many times whether I was focusing on the I or on something else. But, after I found how this "not lost in thoughts" feels like, I feel confident now that when I focus on I, I am not actually focusing on the thought that I am focusing on I. These are all words but I hope I am expressing myself clearly. I am still far away from what Bhagavan told that Vichara has to be continuous. I have put 30 minutes in the morning and 30 mintues in the evening for a kind of "do or die" sitting. <br><br>2. Surrender: I pretty much follow again what David has recommended...i.e., to be in the continuous feeling of gratitude towards Bhagavan for whatever is happening in my life. There is an interview between Maalok and David Godman in David's website which has one question on Surrender. That question acted as a life changer for me and I hooked onto the method outlined there. I found this to be amazingly effective in terms of leaving the grip on the likes and dislikes.<br><br>The problem I am facing is my day to day struggle to "give up my control" on my life and let Bhagavan steer it. Concerns, Ambitions and the likes are strong in me and hopefully Bhagavan will interfere soon.<br><br>Regards MuraliMuralihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04720150736535781474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-49931924596103244902010-11-17T09:05:23.734+05:302010-11-17T09:05:23.734+05:30Hello All,Am posting the way I do self enquiry. Th...Hello All,<br><br>Am posting the way I do self enquiry. This is the way I started when I first came to Bhagavan. But I sort of 'forgot' it, and just stumbled back into doing it again.<br><br>Try not to laugh, as it is a childish technique.<br><br>1. I close my eyes and visualise all the thoughts in my head as starting from a single point, the thoughts typically being 'I like this', or 'I dont want a certain thing', etc. I try to see them as rays emanating from a single point.<br><br>2. I go in close to the centre and sort of visualize an 'I'. <br><br>3. I tell myself that this 'I' is the centre of all thoughts. And that all thoughts begin from here.<br><br>4. I then ask myself where this 'I ' comes from, since all thoughts come from here.<br><br>5. I start with 'Where does this 'i' come from?', and shorten it to 'who am i?' along the way. I find that as this happens, attention goes to the heart by itself.<br><br>It is admittedly a silly method, but it works, in the sense that whenever the thread is broken, one seems to be able to go back quickly.Nandu Narasimhannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-91321812781414866882010-11-17T09:05:22.278+05:302010-11-17T09:05:22.278+05:30Some very inspiring posts here, His grace indeed.I...Some very inspiring posts here, His grace indeed.<br><br>Introduced to enquiry for the last 2+ years, I've gone through various phases. I had once felt I had made it look so complicated!<br><br>I very recently came across the 'forgotten I' concept. 'I' that is being enquired is something that I already knew and due to (whatever) reasons, have forgotten now. With this knowledge, pursuing enquiry into the 'forgotten I', is making the process look simple. In this, I find an extra bit of endurance for enquiry, compared to simply looking for the source of I or asking 'who am I?'.<br><br>During the process, I am tending to end at 'What is that I knew, which I have forgotten now?'<br><br>Please share your thoughts. Anyone else who are following such a method?<br><br>Thanks,<br>Sri.Srikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14941612784307919228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-19206659458110393062010-11-17T09:05:21.695+05:302010-11-17T09:05:21.695+05:30I meant to add whether this practice of not thinki...I meant to add whether this practice of not thinking about anything beyond the next 1 hour at most can progressively be shortened to only be in the NOWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-61551506614164588632010-11-17T09:05:21.317+05:302010-11-17T09:05:21.317+05:30The way I do self-enquiry is almost like mantra. A...The way I do self-enquiry is almost like mantra. A moment to moment noting of (the feeling) I-I-I as you reach out in your heart away from self concern and towards your true identity. Your heart may feel like its breathing. The reaching out is the most important, Nisargadatta said simply the desire for liberation takes one speedily to their goal. Earnestness is most important. <br>This is slightly different than the grasping of the sense of "I am" and holding onto it for dear life. I used to do it that way but I found it requires too much effort to be really effective and causes headaches. Nisargadatta said sadhana should be effortless, I've found that slowly refining effort is essential. <br>It is important not to do self-enquiry periodically. It has to be done from the moment of waking to the edge of sleep (hence the need for refining effort). Its all or nothing. I've never gone a whole day without stopping but I'm getting better daily. <br>Some side effects of self-enquiry is that my bodies has started to feel too "big" to be me. Too arbitrary and silly to be who I really am. Its an estrangment that is a little frightening at first. There is also the paradox of there being observation but there is no observer to be found. That is, I keep looking for myself but the very thought of looking is not being done by me, so sometimes I feel there is no me but who is the one observing "no me"? Accompanied by this paradox is the seeing of my self in objects. This is hard to describe. I see a shape and it has the feeling of me attached to it. Existence itself is becoming an increasingly bizarre and puzzling fact. The world sometimes feel fake and strange. These aren't very frightening thoughts or feelings so it no big deal. <br>The reason why I do self-enquiry, is out of a search for meaning. Nothing has ever interested me as much as the search for meaning in my life. I've discovered that all the self-concepts I've constructed and took for granted are hollow, incomplete and have a need for justification attached to them. I believe this is the cause for humanities search for meaning in life.<br>The value of self-enquiry is that instead of trying to change one's habits of thought and action for the better, which simply leads to fresh karma, one puts the urges on hold and let the energy behind them slowly dissipate. Either self-worth and happiness is conditional or its not. The Maharishi to me is proof that it is not. Self-enquiry is the giving of doership regardless of circumstance, past actions and feelings of unworthiness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-7967752598705306752010-11-17T09:05:20.824+05:302010-11-17T09:05:20.824+05:30An open thread to vichara is indeedfilling up the ...An open thread to vichara is indeed<br>filling up the gap for the earnest<br>sadhakas. Self enquiry<br>or vichara through 'who am I' is a perfect method to self realisation <br>a direct method advocated by Bhagawan and noneelse so far. The mind when introverted (ie.antharmuka) is absorbed in the self when thought level/force is zero. Mind can become antharmuka by catching the 'I' thought and following its root source through Bhagavan's sef enquiry. We are not to be absessed with the thought 'I'<br>but look for it's source deep within and remain silent till a thought surfaces which is erased though the enquiry process and stay antharmuka ie,silently looking at the source of the 'I' thought. The mind is a slave of habit and using its weakness repeat the practice of being antharmuka and over time mind will prefer to stay within aiding gradually the full absorbtion of the mind in the self. You can call it the merging of the 'I' in the spiritual heart. The whole process is a conscious one leading to awareness of the self only when the last thought'I' also perishes.<br>Through Bhagavan's method it is harmonious and the self realisation takes place in a measured pace not induced suddenly or forced into it. The change to a realised state will not destabilise the system since the whole process is gradual through Bhagavan's method. Though Bhagavan himself had realised in a flash his method stipulates slow sinking of the mind to zero thought level/force. Understanding the process is very important. During the vichara mind quietens down and thought level/force subsides. If the mind does not relax and quieten using this method, please note something is wrong in the practice. Be quiet and calm for sometime atleast before you start the practice. I am also a beginner. All that I am stating is through my analysis and attempts I am making sporadically ever since I started the enquiry. Good luck to everybody and pray to Bhagavan for everybody's success.Srinivasannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-29656251229160369112010-11-17T09:05:18.807+05:302010-11-17T09:05:18.807+05:30I have posted the following link. I would recommen...I have posted the following link. I would recommend all to go through the course in consciousness which is posted there. I found it personally very useful in Sadhana.<br><br>http://www.faculty.virginia.edu<br><br>Regards MuraliMuralihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04720150736535781474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-14238118977962439082010-11-17T09:05:18.319+05:302010-11-17T09:05:18.319+05:30Ravi wrote:'A certain Quietude is a prerequisi...Ravi wrote:<br><br>'A certain Quietude is a prerequisite for a certain measure of success.In the event of an inability to effect this, I have found that there is no better thing than to read and listen to the words of the Great ones. This helps to reconnect.'<br><br>Someone once asked Bhagavan if he should meditate all day. Bhagavan replied, 'Try it and see. Your vasanas will not allow you to do it.'<br><br>While, ideally, one should be doing enquiry at all times, it is everyone's experience that this is not possible. It does take a certain inner quietness and focus to do enquiry well, and there are times when the mind simple refuses to co-operate.<br><br>When Kunju Swami asked Bhagavan how he should spend his time and live his life after he had informed Bhagavan that he was planning to leave Bhagavan's service and move to Palakottu, Bhagavan replied, ‘It is enough if the mind is kept one-pointedly on vichara, dhyana, japa and parayana without seeking anything else’. <br><br>When the mind refuses to cooperate with the attempts to practise vichara one should, instead of letting the mind run wild, occupy it with the other activities mentioned by Bhagavan. 'Reading and listening to the words of the great ones' is one such 'plan B' activity for when the mind is proving to be stubborn.<br><br>Kunju Swami narrates what happened next:<br><br>'I left feeling that I had received the full blessings of Sri Bhagavan.<br><br>'Though I had given up my ashram duties, I found it hard to decide how exactly I should spend the entire day in search of realisation. I referred the matter to Sri Bhagavan and he amplified the advice he had already given me.<br><br>‘"Make self-enquiry your final aim," he said, "but also practise meditation, japa and parayana. If you find one method irksome or difficult, switch to one of the others. In the course of time the sadhana will become stabilised in self-enquiry and will culminate in pure consciousness or realisation."’David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-6539366198929852162010-11-17T09:05:17.748+05:302010-11-17T09:05:17.748+05:30S wrote:'[ravi and maneesha also mentioned abo...S wrote:<br><br>'[ravi and maneesha also mentioned about devotion...i face a dichotomy here: whenever i hear some of the tamil songs of the 'naynamars' (saivaite saints) or songs sung by sri ramakrishna), i find myself hopelessly in tears quite often...yet am more of an agnostic (very often whenever i do get pulled into an argument (indulge in it less and less), am typically on the side of atheism!) ...don't know how to reconcile :( ]'<br><br><br>I spoke to Chalam shortly before he passed away in the late 1970s. His story appears in the first volume of The Power of the Presence.<br><br>He said, 'David, I came to Bhagavan as an atheist, and I stayed an atheist all my life. However, whenever I was sitting in the presence of Bhagavan I knew that I was sitting in the presence of God Himself. That knowledge should have cancelled out my atheism, but somehow it never did.'<br><br>I could never understand how he managed to keep these two ideas in his mind, without one dislodging the other. You seem to have mastered the same trick!David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-52137168881336197022010-11-17T09:05:17.389+05:302010-11-17T09:05:17.389+05:30KamaleshI loved your description of how you went a...Kamalesh<br><br>I loved your description of how you went about doing self-enquiry, how it was an intimate expression of your love for Bhagavan himself.<br><br>This is not a specific comment on what you wrote; it is more a stray thought that arose as I was reading what you had to say.<br><br>When I was reading one of the Robert Adams dialogues I posted here a few weeks ago, I was struck by his comment that we should not just concentrate on the 'I'; we should instead try to find its source. I think we all find it relatively easy to revert to the feeling of 'I'. What is far more difficult is holding onto it so fiercely, it has no option but to subside and disappear. The intensity and hunger to find the source seems to be absent in us all, which is why we end up on the merry-go-round of enquiry-distraction-enquiry-distraction, and so on.<br><br>It was Ramakrishna who said that when one wants God as badly as a drowning man, who is having his head held underwater, wants air, then one will find Him. Papaji used the example of a man whose clothes are on fire and who is rushing towards a river so that he can jump in and extinguish the flames. Nothing distracts him on the way because nothing is as important as putting out the flames.<br><br>I am now back in the position that I explained in the first comment in this series: it is intense desire for the Self that takes us to the goal, not the practice itself. <br><br>While the desire for the non-Self always seems to win out in the battle for our attention, each time we pull the mind's focus from objects of thought and desire to 'I' we lessen the outgoing momentum of the mind and develop an opportunity to dwell in silence for a moment, a moment in which the silence and peace of the Self can reveal itself to us.<br><br>It's late evening here. I will carry on with the replies tomorrow morning.David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-40139094421786833142010-11-17T09:05:16.712+05:302010-11-17T09:05:16.712+05:30Scott Fraundorf:... the burning desire need to fin...<i>Scott Fraundorf:<br>... the burning desire need to find the source increase as I've pulled the mind back from its 'pets'.</i><br><br>That is exactly what I meant with "<i>vichara</i> gives pain".<br><br>The ego, which is the "I"-thought, finds itself in a dead-end-street, the world (=its pets, the love for itself and its objects). This world is no longer attractive. The only way is the way back, the source where the "I"-thought arised. This source is consciousness without the "I"-thought - without any form, creator of all forms, pure being. Certainly the "I"-thought will find its death therein. <br><br>The "I"-thought don't wants to merge with this consciousness. It will survive and continue to live in its world. Therefore the pain.<br><br>The "burning" is the process of being aware of this pain. One can say it is a feeling (I prefer to say: a subtile thought). But there is also a clear understanding of what is happening in the mind and why. That is my experience.<br><br>Clemens Vargas Ramos<br>Oldenburg, GermanyClemens Vargas Ramosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-35881148099543849902010-11-17T09:05:14.480+05:302010-11-17T09:05:14.480+05:30Anonymous"“Then I came across pieces of writi...Anonymous<br><br>"“Then I came across pieces of writings from “Ramana Leela” and “Guru Ramana” that the method of vichara really is a method of “recollection” of memory, similar to the way we try to concentrate and remember a thing that we have lost. Maharshi says it is as if we have forgotten our name and we argue within ourselves to know who I am…”"<br><br>An example Bhagavan often used was the woman who has lost her necklace and who looks for it, unaware that she is still wearing it around her neck. The key to 'recollection' is the understanding 'that which is being searched for is that which is doing the looking'. Recollection means becoming subjectively aware of the one who is trying to remember.David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-11451796422028519072010-11-17T09:05:14.343+05:302010-11-17T09:05:14.343+05:30Asperger's and Enquiry:I think overall I find ...Asperger's and Enquiry:<br>I think overall I find enquiry probably as difficult as everyone else. And it's really hard to say, and also I only know one other person personally who 'practices' Enquiry, the one who introduced me to it. Off the subject, he was my Filipino Martial Arts teacher, a martial art called Eskabo Daan, which is fascinating in itself, but too much of a tangent. He took me to Society for Abidance in Truth in Santa Cruz a year ago, and then I immediately started reading everything about Maharshi and Enquiry. <br><br>Honestly, I don't know whether the local guru there at SAT "Nome" is a jnani, although he claims to be on the website, which is a little suspect. I really didn't like him at first, gave me a fraudulent vibe, but my mind became completely still in his presence, much like the grace described around Maharshi, Papaji, etc. Intellectually, and with many of the issues I've suffered and attempts to become 'relaxed', everything Maharshi, upon reading it, made perfect sense.<br><br>With the person you mentioned also having Asperger's, I share those qualities. And I actually find that I can be superfocused on Enquiry. The social difficulties of Asperger's stem from not being able to read and reciprocate nonverbal social interaction effectively. It's hypothesized that this is because mirror neurons which are believed to be involved in imitative social behavior in primates and some birds, mirror neurons do not distinguish between the action of 'self' and action of 'other' (ex. whether you pick up a cup, or someone else does). On the Autism Spectrum, they're thought to respond poorly, sluggishly, or not at all. Because of that, it's like flying in a storm without radar, not being able to gauge others intentions except intellectually.<br><br>This has to do with Enquiry, because for instance the person who introduced me to it is much more caught up in the 'world' then I am. and I'm hardly caught up in it. His efforts are as sincere as mine. But I think all the rebuffs and lack of success I've had in the 'social world', which I so badly wanted, forced me to turn inward much more, or gave me little choice. (like the Maharshi quote "if you desire Realization it will be forced upon you whether you want it or not) In that respect I find that Asperger's has made things easier, in a sense paved the way for me to look inward because the 'world' as I imagined it, didn't hold much promise. But upon turning inward, ironically, I find that the things I wanted come easier, even if I am less attached. Someone asked Maharshi "Why is there suffering in the world?" And I believe he said something like "To make you turn to God" <br><br>I should also add that with Asperger's, I've had experiences where the percepual world around me, became so grand and visionary, and clearly unreal, although it still has that consistency, that it wasn't such a big stretch for me to accept the idea that "waking is long, dreaming is short. Other then that there is no difference" But despite all this, I still have a very existent ego, but I'm enjoying Enquiry, and the happiness I now experience much more often. I should add, ironically, since I've been practicing Enquiry I'm a much better student, biochemistry major. Fun to give powerpoint presentations on protein molecules, and not even believe that any of it is true.Scott Fraundorfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-14635322805725616492010-11-17T09:05:13.750+05:302010-11-17T09:05:13.750+05:30PS. I just read Scott Fraundorf's interesting...PS. I just read Scott Fraundorf's interesting comments on Asberger's and Enquiry and laughed outloud at the last sentence. Way to go, Scott.Jupeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04562814002037188693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-62463681786043719172010-11-17T09:05:13.198+05:302010-11-17T09:05:13.198+05:30Scott,The last sentence made me laugh out loud too...Scott,<br>The last sentence made me laugh out loud too... :) <br>Your sentence that you are a better student now is very inspiring for people like me who find it hard to reconcile work with vichara.<br><br>Jupes and Ravi,<br>Sorry for barging in... but feel like sharing my experience regarding sitting at a place and doing vichara... I find it easy to sit at a place and do vichara very few times. Most of the times as I sit for vichara, my mind simply runs amock. I find it easier to do vichara when the body is engaged otherwise. Its the easiest when I am reading something about Ramana/vichara on blogs or books, or while watching a video related to Maharshi or vichara on youtube. The reading/watching will happen with the attention to the source in the background pretty easily.Maneeshahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15693008674509444946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-16340558669027290692010-11-17T09:05:12.911+05:302010-11-17T09:05:12.911+05:30David,Its not because I am in your blog, but each ...David,<br>Its not because I am in your blog, but each day I discover your book "Be as You Are" is the more clear and helpful to "learn" Atma-Vichara.<br>The almost 240 milion of Brazilian and portuguese people would love have your books translated into the portuguese.<br>Ramana teachings and devotees are increasing day by day here in Brazil.<br>We hope your books be soon published here. <br>Thanks.celio leitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02274966067973017232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-64811684745942120922010-11-17T09:05:11.403+05:302010-11-17T09:05:11.403+05:3025. Pure devotional service, on the other hand, is...25. Pure devotional service, on the other hand, is far superior to fruitive work, philosophical speculation, and mystic meditation.<br><br>26: After all, <i>bhakti</i> is the fruit of all endeavor.<br><br>27: Furthermore, the Lord dislikes the proud but is pleased with the humble.<br><br><i>Narada, Bhakti Sutras</i><br><br>--------------------------<br><br>The most important for Bhagavan was humbleness.<br><br><i>Annamalai Swami, Living by the words of Bhagavan</i>Clemens Vargas Ramosnoreply@blogger.com