tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post6452975711861551698..comments2024-03-19T10:52:32.528+05:30Comments on Arunachala and Ramana Maharshi: replies to recent commentsDavid Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-91629639062106725252012-12-18T13:35:24.557+05:302012-12-18T13:35:24.557+05:30Thank you so much for this review! I found it very...Thank you so much for this review! I found it very helpful, this seem like a program that would be of great use to me. Keep it up!<br />company formationhttp://www.aavadvisories.in/corporate_business_law.htmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-87658817933055428322010-11-17T09:05:39.144+05:302010-11-17T09:05:39.144+05:30Dear Arvind, as David said if youhave a strong des...Dear Arvind, as David said if you<br>have a strong desire to come to <br>Arunachala and a conviction that<br>you are going there, things will be <br>arranged by Bhagavan even if you<br>are in Mars. I am an anxiety neurosis patient, who cannot go <br>alone even to a market that is <br>2 kms away. But I prayed to Bhagavan, read His books, was posting letters on Graham Bell's Forum and David Godman's blog.<br>I was taking 10 mg lorazepam <br>everynight. A mere 2 mg will give<br>one 8 hours sleep. On 31st May<br>2008, I went to Arunachala, spent<br>3 days, got room in Morvi guest <br>house without prior notice, had good food, had darshan, meditated in Old Hall, climbed<br>the Hill to about 200 metres. Who do you think had done all this<br>for me? The Power of His Presence! Trust Him, the rest of the work is His.Subramanian. Rhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07503810836611357841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-30724660782552944302010-11-17T09:05:37.391+05:302010-11-17T09:05:37.391+05:30.Ravi, (I don't know your email, so I have to ....<br><br>Ravi, (I don't know your email, so I have to write here) you repeatedly mentioned your master and his words. Does exist written material from him, i.e. sayings or something like that? To read and to translate?<br><br>Thanking you.<br><br>.Clemens Vargas Ramoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07193114321240935018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-36507206920464752872010-04-21T19:16:51.689+05:302010-04-21T19:16:51.689+05:30very nice blog thank you :)very nice blog thank you :)ankara evden eve nakliyathttp://www.ankaranakliyatevdeneve.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-59606472887972239352008-08-24T23:56:00.000+05:302008-08-24T23:56:00.000+05:30.Thank you very much, Ravi, for sharing this! I co....<BR/><BR/>Thank you very much, Ravi, for sharing this! I copied your post, and I will read and reflect on it tomorrow. <BR/><BR/>If David don't mind we can continue with further posts here. I would appreciate to have kind of "visitors posts" here on off topics.<BR/><BR/>In Germany its time to go to bed. Until tommorow I wish you and all other friends here a good (coming) night. <BR/><BR/>(I really don't know what the time in India is because server time shows your last post at August 24, 2008 12:19 AM. As far as I know India is 4 1/2 hours ahead from Germany. Perhaps the right time zone isn't adjusted)<BR/><BR/>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-16935609224381613242008-08-24T12:49:00.000+05:302008-08-24T12:49:00.000+05:30Ramos,Truly appreciate your tremendous thirst and ...Ramos,<BR/>Truly appreciate your tremendous thirst and open mind.My email id :niveditahr@rediffmail.com.<BR/>Just that I am not very sure of seeing all mails and still less replying them!That is the only reason why I have not made it public.<BR/>Coming to my Master,he is one of a kind.Most people may not recognize him,not even his next door neighbour!he is an ORDINARY man!He is now 75+ and has sort of limited his talks and other activities.He stays with a devoted pair of disciples(Sisters-one of them is a doctor and the other ,a Bank Employee).They have a small Hall that may accommodate about 60 or 70 persons.On sundays,the recorded Talks by Master are played(19:00 hrs to 20:30 Hrs).Master just gives a preamble and Postamble to these Talks.He ends his talk with a Blessing.I attend these talks for this BLESSING and for his presence-I am not interested in the Teaching or the Talks per se-Although that is very valuable too.<BR/><BR/>Master Says:<BR/>1.My 'fan' has been switched off-The Blades continue to rotate-let them do so if it is of any benefit to anyone.<BR/>2.You are seeing the Speaker-He is no different than you-He can assuredly say that there is no 'worry' that can invade him,no fear that can trouble him-Problems may come and they can be met-If the speaker can achieve this-Surely you can-That is the objective why we are meeting here.<BR/><BR/>Master's Talks have come out as a compendium-in a book form.Somehow,I felt that this still does not reflect his Teaching in full measure-Like the dictionary has all the words in a poem,yet does not have the poem!<BR/><BR/>You may visit the website www.tgnfoundation.org<BR/>Master is never interested in any organisation or propagation of his teachings.This site has been put up by some earnest devotee with meagre resources.You may visit this site and see what you can find that interests you.<BR/><BR/>Please also see my post to Arvind-I think it is in the VICHARA thread.<BR/><BR/>Thanks very much for your enquiry and interest.<BR/><BR/>Namaskar!Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-49845380822303601732008-08-24T11:39:00.000+05:302008-08-24T11:39:00.000+05:30.Ravi, (I don't know your email, so I have to writ....<BR/><BR/>Ravi, (I don't know your email, so I have to write here) you repeatedly mentioned your master and his words. Does exist written material from him, i.e. sayings or something like that? To read and to translate?<BR/><BR/>Thanking you.<BR/><BR/>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-25814184526725167182008-08-24T07:57:00.000+05:302008-08-24T07:57:00.000+05:30Friends,In going through this thread,I felt that t...Friends,<BR/>In going through this thread,I felt that the topic of Avatara was touched upon-and somehow the full significance did not come through.<BR/>Avatara-the aVa-refers to the Descent.Just what is this descent?It means 'coming dowm' to the Human level,becoming 'accessible'-The Avatara comes down to the 'Human Level' and leads the Humans from 'Unreal to the Real;Darkness to Light;From Death to Immortality'.The Avatara plays the game of living quite alike the way an average person does,yet is out of it.This gives a better HOLD for the average person to redeem himself.<BR/>The Avatar is not a 'concept' but an actuality-in thus descending to the Human level,is able to touch more hearts and this is the 'establishing of the Dharma'in the world.The Gnani beckons the Human to rise above human Nature,but from HIS heights.<BR/><BR/>The 'Avatar' is ofcourse a Gnani-All these thoughts of who is 'superior' or 'special'-these are the mischief of the 'mind' which for ever compares,sifts,analyses and never succeeds in arriving at the essence.<BR/><BR/>Salutations!Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-67645032761943592252008-07-24T12:08:00.000+05:302008-07-24T12:08:00.000+05:30Dear David, Your posts are wonderful. I feel I can...Dear David, <BR/>Your posts are wonderful. I feel I can say something about some points discussed and analysed so thoroughly. Still can I add the following comments:<BR/>Ramana as avatar- I have an interesting experience. I was talking to a few devotees of a divine person, in her presence, about Ramana's life when I touched on Nayana's opinion that Bhagavan was an avatar of Lord Subramanya, when I heard a hefty laughter from her. I turned to her and asked whether I was wrong. To that the divine person replied that it is commonly said that he is an avatar of Muruga but the truth is that Devi Meenakshi is invoked into him.<BR/>Bhagavan had his realisation at <BR/>his uncle's house which is only a stone's throwaway distance from Meenakshi Sannidhi near the south tower of the great temple of Madurai. Ramana had great qualities of a mother. He was kind<BR/>compassionate and caring. <BR/><BR/>The other point on which I want to say something is about meditation on the right side of the heart ie., two inches to the right. Where breath subsides mind also subsides there. If you watch the breath mind calms down. Bhagvan himself said that there is no particular place for self in the body but the above concept will aid the enquiry. I had the good fortune of talking to a realised soul (through Ramana's method) who said all thoughts to be passed on to the right side of the heart and remain silent there. I will write about this devotee of Bhagavan when occasion comes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-17122084585012676372008-07-20T14:27:00.000+05:302008-07-20T14:27:00.000+05:30David's advice here is excellent.Sri Bhagavan is a...David's advice here is excellent.Sri Bhagavan is available as ever.The GURU in Human Form is projected as a requirement for persons who cannot get rid of associating the Guru with the Body.Sooner or later this idea has to be outgrown.<BR/>Sri Bhagavan has always emphasized the ETERNAL aspect of the Guru.<BR/>Sri Ramakrishna gives this simple example of rain water collecting on the roof and pouring out through different spouts in the shape of an Elephant,Lion,horse,etc.In similiar fashion Satchidananda Brahman is the Guru whose Grace flows through the Great souls who serve as channels.<BR/>As we mature we soon realise that the whole world and all its objects become our Guru-Like Dattatreya Avadhoota had 24 Gurus as mentioned in the Bhagavatha.<BR/>ALSO If we Earnest,THIS GRACE WILL FIND US ,we do not have to find it!<BR/>Salutations to the Guru.Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-26758952662687580302008-07-20T12:07:00.000+05:302008-07-20T12:07:00.000+05:30SubramanianI would prefer not to address this issu...Subramanian<BR/><BR/>I would prefer not to address this issue here. I am guessing that many people who visit this blog are ardent devotees of Bhagavan who have taken Bhagavan as their Guru and feel no need to look elsewhere. <BR/><BR/>A simple rule of thumb would be: if you are fully devoted to Bhagavan and firmly believe that he can provide you with everything you desire or need, then you will have no need to look elsewhere for guidance or grace.David Godmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-42708556639512855502008-07-19T18:51:00.000+05:302008-07-19T18:51:00.000+05:30How thoughtful of Celio to have asked about Yogi R...How thoughtful of Celio to have asked about Yogi Ramiah!One of my favourite chapters in Paul Brunton's(Salutations to this Great soul!)Search in Secret India is where Brunton returns to his tenement and is startled by the sound of a cobra's hiss and how Yogi Ramiah intervenes and pacifies that cobra.Also the other momentous time when Brunton receives bad news about some financial calamity and how it threatened to cut short his sojourn in Sri Ramanashram-How Yogi Ramiah comes to his rescue,how Brunton explains to him in English hoping that the Yogi will caqtch his THOUGHTS if not the words,how the Yogi leads Brunton to a Tirtham,how Brunton finds all his Depression displaced by unassailable Peace!Wonderful Soul ,This Yogi Ramiah!<BR/>This is one thing which I take as a Thumb Rule-When A GREAT SOUL Like Sri Bhagavan is born ,you find that huge Clusters of other Great souls come along -Like a BANANA CLUSTER as it is called in Tamil.The same is true of that other Great soul Sri Ramakrishna.<BR/>This is one phenomena that LETS THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG!<BR/>I have often looked out for more info on Yogi Ramiah but to no avail.It has proved elusive.Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-21277017700678145932008-07-19T16:03:00.000+05:302008-07-19T16:03:00.000+05:30I did try to find out about Yogi Ramaiah in the 19...I did try to find out about Yogi Ramaiah in the 1990s, but there is a disappointing amount of information about him. He kept mauna for much of the time at Ramanasramam and I have not come across any writings by him on Bhagavan, or the time he spent there. He has a samadhi shrine and an ashram in Andhra Pradesh and a few years ago I ended up talking to the man who looked after it. That man gave me a small brochure about the shrine and said that Yogi Ramaiah had personally told him stories about his years with Bhagavan, but none of this material seems to exist in print. If there are any Telugu readers out there who know of any Telugu sources about Yogi Ramaiah, I would love to hear of them and have copies of anything that might be available.David Godmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-35638200417153631932008-07-19T12:05:00.000+05:302008-07-19T12:05:00.000+05:30My dear David, I do not know where to write this, ...My dear David, I do not know where to write this, hence I'm<BR/>writing under 'recent comments'.<BR/>A friend has told me that one <BR/>should have a guru in body and <BR/>he quotes Sri Lakshmanaswami's<BR/>book No mind - I am the Self.<BR/>Is the stand correct?Subramanian. Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07503810836611357841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-52772842051742299952008-07-19T10:55:00.000+05:302008-07-19T10:55:00.000+05:30Dear David,I am asking not only for me, but for so...Dear David,<BR/>I am asking not only for me, but for so many people in the world.<BR/>There is a misterious and close disciple of Ramana that is quoted in " A Search in Secret India" of Paul Brunton and in the book - "The Path" of Swami Kriyananda, direct disciple of Paramahansa Yogananda. <BR/>When Yogananda visited Ramana, he fell in love with this man - Yogi Ramiah like named in Brunton`s. Yogananda said that he was one of the greatest sage that he ever meet in all your life.<BR/>Brunton talk a bit about him...but it is all that we have about this close, divine and misterious man - Yogi Ramiah.<BR/>Who was he? He had another name or write any book about Ramana, your beloved master? <BR/>Thanks.celio leitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02274966067973017232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-23278283752198231332008-07-19T03:12:00.000+05:302008-07-19T03:12:00.000+05:30Ravi and Anonymous, thank you for your encouraging...Ravi and Anonymous, thank you for your encouraging words, and also, thanks to you, Arvind, for the beautiful quotes you took the time to find and post 10 days ago. It's very helpful to read these things and to feel the warm sentiment behind them. The comments about suffering are right on the mark. I wonder if anyone in the world would ever pursue a spiritual path were it not for suffering. I sometimes forget how useful this form of catalyst is and I also forget to appreciate it. <BR/><BR/>As a little example of where I have begun to learn in this arena, I am someone who's quite sensitive to noise, especially barking dogs and unwanted tv and stereo noise. Over the years I have suffered greatly at the hands of inconsiderate neighbors. In more recent times I have begun to regard this kind of noise as a reminder to focus inward and remember who I am, and also to be thankful for the noise. If a nearby dog begins woofing, more and more I can turn that d-o-g into g-o-d, and as soon as I do that the noise either stops altogether or I am no longer bothered by it. <BR/><BR/>Whether or not I ever travel to Tiruvannamalai seems way out of my hands and I know that if it does happen it will probably involve some sort of ultimate surrender on my part. I can't tell you how many times I've wished I could say "Beam me up, Scottie" and just suddenly be there. Before asking Bhagavan permission to come, as David suggested, I would probably need to first ask that my fears be wiped away and replaced with sincere desire. That is my first stumbling block. But. whether or not I ever go there, cultivating a connection with Bhagavan, as the Self, HERE AND NOW, is what is most important. I know I don't need to go anywhere to do that. <BR/><BR/>By the way, after I wrote my comments yesterday I found an old calendar and was looking to see when my severe heart palpitations started in relation to "finding" Bhagavan. I recall the exact day they started three and a half years ago, and it was eight days later that Bhagavan snagged me.Jupeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04562814002037188693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-60597618232422817032008-07-18T10:52:00.000+05:302008-07-18T10:52:00.000+05:30I'm going off-topic here in response to David's co...I'm going off-topic here in response to David's comments:<BR/>"In the models of global warming that I have seen so far, South India seems to be one of the few places in the world that may be getting better weather." that is 'cool'!:)<BR/>"we have been having all-day power cuts" I wonder why India(and the rest of the world!) hasn't used solar power on a much larger scale..I'm sure people who live in or have visited Tiruvannamalai frequently will testify that it is generally hot most of the year and leave many of them wishing Bhagavan had bestowed them too with 'ravi raksha'! With the price of fossil fuels at an all-time high, solar energy has to play a significant role..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-20267443510845539922008-07-18T10:33:00.000+05:302008-07-18T10:33:00.000+05:30"I'm sorry if this sounds terribly pathetic" no th..."I'm sorry if this sounds terribly pathetic" no that doesn't sound pathetic at all..i have to tell you that things hardly ever seem to go easily for me and each day seems like a struggle but that pushes me to remember Bhagavan and his teachings more often..suffering is what brought me to Bhagavan's teachings and I suspect suffering will continue to be a major part of my life until I truly follow Bhagavan's teachings, bow out and let Jnana shine. This strange thought has been going through my mind today - 'I have found the enemy and he is me'! ha ha..the me of course is the ego that is attached to all the objects of the world, desiring some and fearing some..may Bhagavan fast-track us on the way out of suffering!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-11899114293360123922008-07-18T10:19:00.000+05:302008-07-18T10:19:00.000+05:30Thanks David for spending quality time in respondi...Thanks David for spending quality time in responding to each and every comment!<BR/>It is really inspiring to see that there are so many earnest,serious aspirants out here.<BR/>Jupes is perfectly right in mentioning how useful this sort of a Satsangh forum is in boosting sagging spirit.I am sure that Bhagavan will come to you wherever you are.It is really nice to be able to visit Tiruvannamalai and see atleast once the Place sactified by Sri Bhagavan!All the same,this need not be a cause for dejection if one is not able to.When Kitty Osbourne requested Bhagavan that He should remember her(this was when she had to leave Tiruvannamalai to do her schooling elsewhere)Sri Bhagavan told her-"Bhagavan will remember Kitty,when Kitty remembers Bhagavan".The fact that we are now thinking about Bhagavan means Bhagavan is accesible to us,wherever we are and however we are.<BR/>Among all the devotees of Sri Bhagavan,one of my top favourites is Eleanour Pauline Noye.As Devaraja Mudaliar cheekily told Sri Bhagavan that Ms Noye caught Sri Bhagavan in the web of her tears of Devotion.It was not possible for her to be Physically always with Bhagavan,yet how she constantly lived in Sri Bhagavan,although she as in the USA ,in the other part of the Globe.If only we develop this sort of Devotion(This is True Gnana,not the intellectual conceptions that is often mistaken for Gnana)we will find that Sri Bhagavan is ever available for whatever guidance or help that we may require.<BR/>Coming to the other point that David has been repeatedly hammering-That all Gnanis are essentially alike,that there are no gradations,or Degrees of Gnana,etc-My take on this is a 'Qualified' Yes and No.In all these matters,I have always found that if there is a 'Weighty'THESIS,there is an equally 'Weighty' AntiThesis.<BR/>This is a subject that may require more space and time,and may be not all in this or any other forum may be keen(I am not sure!).<BR/>I will try to put the 'Antithesis' briefly-Essentially it is true that the State of Gnana in its ESSENCE is undifferentiated and All Gnanis have experienced the SAME REALITY.However in MANIFESTING this ,there ic certainly a DIFFERENCE-Like All the Electric Bulbs have ELECTRICITY powering them,all operate on 220 Volts(or 110 Volts in the USA!),yet their WATTAGES are NOT THE SAME.Some are only Night Lamps,Some are 60 Watts,some 100 Watts and the RARE FEW are the BLAZING Multi KiLoWatts.(This is how Sri Annamalai Swami describes in his Last Talks).Sri Ramakrishna also says that ordinary Gnanis are like Logs of wood that can stay afloat with a few people at the most.Then there are Rafts,then Bigger Boats,and Lastly you have the Big Steamers that can carry any number of DIVERSE LOADS.<BR/>He also used to say that some have Seen he Ganges,some have touched the Ganges,Some have Taken bath in it!Rare are the ones who carry this for others as well.<BR/>Intellectually speaking,Spirit and Matter although ESSENTIally same,Yet from the point of Empirical understanding,are the Two Poles of Existence.In the Great ones,The Spirit is almost made more GROSS AND TANGIBLE and the Matter is made more Ethereal and incorporeal!This is on account of their SUDDHA SATVA type of Nature.On account of Suddha Satva,They Teach the Seekers not only THROUGH THEIR TALKS OR PRESENCE but THROUGH THEIR SILENT ACTIONS.All their ACTIONS are a Teaching.LIKE SRI BHAGAVAN not Criticising anyone;Even when the notorious Kandaswamy died and disciples were wondering what Sri Bhagavan could say in a Positive vein,Bhagavan was quick to mention that he had always seen how Kandaswamy was always Dressed in SPOTLESS White Clothes!THIS IS A GREAT TEACHING that we cannot get from ordinary Gnanis!Ordinary Gnanis cannot Teach us HOW TO LIVE!They cannot be role Models!The Truly Great ones are ROLE MODELS.THis is how the ACHARYA is differentiated from a simple Gnani.They follow the Dictum -Justice should not only be Done but also SEEN to be done.<BR/>Sorry for he Long ramble.I have just coverd some very basic things.There still is quite a Few more Weighty considerations in my 'ANTITHESIS'.Enough for now.Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-51033671843945900512008-07-18T02:06:00.000+05:302008-07-18T02:06:00.000+05:30David, it is great to find you back on the blog. S...David, it is great to find you back on the blog. Since I am unable to access the 'recent comments' section I wasn't aware that so much was going on in your absence. Thank you for posting it all.<BR/><BR/>Of course I was interested to read the comments related to my own comment about being half a world away and maybe never having the opportunity to travel to Tiruvannamalai, to experience Arunachala, to visit Sri Ramanasramam and all the rest of it. <BR/><BR/>Subramanian, your story is especially inspiring and in some ways relates to my own situation. My biggest hangups about coming there are not about money or family but have to do with a whole range of fears related to physical and emotional issues. Anxiety has brought me to a point, in the past few years, of rarely leaving Albuquerque or even travelling to the other side of town for fear of having an anxiety attack, developing severe heart palpitations and ending up in some horrible state out in public. It seems that, for the moment at least, fear has won out over desire, and until I am able to get past that I don't see myself travelling to India. I don't even want to travel to the midwestern U.S. to visit my family, and that's only 1100 miles away. <BR/><BR/>I know that looking to Bhagavan is the answer and I do talk to Bhagavan sometimes. But I'm really not very good at remembering and taking it to heart as I might. I have more or less resigned myself to living within the limitations I described and just accepting that as what my life is right now. I assume this must be my prarabdha or it wouldn't be happening.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry if this sounds terribly pathetic (even though it is!!). At least I can laugh about it! Having this blog available is enormously helpful and I am so thankful for you, David, and all your wonderful posts, and for everyone who reads and participates. <BR/><BR/>I hope this has not gotten too personal, but I was prompted to write this after reading Subramanian's comment. It will be interesting to see what comes of putting this out there and how I myself am affected by my own admissions and confessions in this semi-public way.Jupeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04562814002037188693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-80812197835027224032008-07-18T00:00:00.000+05:302008-07-18T00:00:00.000+05:30Thank you David for the patient and detailed respo...Thank you David for the patient and detailed responses. It would have taken a lot of time and effort to put up this monumental reply and one is grateful for that. Hope you have recovered now from your fever and are well.<BR/><BR/>Probably, and regretfully, I do fall squarely into your “strong & contrary opinioned” readers category. But allow me to tell you that your opinions and ideas are much respected and I have always gathered new insights from your posts & indeed from all your writings; even though the insight sometimes takes the form of a contrarian view !! And this topic [“Who was Ramana”] did generate some interesting thoughts and ideas. Really, the Truth comes to us with many faces and each one of us has to seize upon the facet that would work for him/her, and move a step closer, or a rung higher, so to speak. <BR/><BR/>Some contrarian thoughts then, on the idea mentioned in your reply - that an Avatar’s advent into the world to restore dharma, or for any other reason, would perhaps imply a ‘srishti-drishti’ view of creation and thus be against Sri Bhagavan’s ‘drishti-srishti’ viewpoint.<BR/><BR/>We must remember that the world and ALL entities in it, INCLUDING Avatars, is created when our mind (or our ego, our ‘small-I’), rises. [Are there Avatars in deep sleep ?] So when we ‘wake up’ from deep sleep our world is created just at that point. And when our mind subsides into deep sleep the world destructs away and nothing but the Self exists so to speak. Sri Bhagavan says that things co-ordinate themselves in such a way in presenting themselves through our senses to our mind that we feel that we are living in a continuously existing and consistent world. And also that the world is created not according to our wishes but according to the ‘Karma-slides’ selected for us from our total ‘store of Karma slides’ by the Lord of the World. [Sri Ramanaparavidyopnisad verse 145: “The mind creates the world subject to a superior power (Avidya-Maya) and therefore is unable to create it to its own liking. The mind believing the world to be real, is deluded and suffers the woes of samsara.”]<BR/><BR/>And thus the Avatar was created to restore dharma perhaps, in a world reeling in adharma and needing help perhaps, itself a creation, essentially, of our own past karmas and vasanas, as chosen by the Lord to fructify in this life, and being created each time our ego or mind arises from the Self, say on waking from deep sleep. And then the whole ‘srishti’, including the Avatars, destructs away when the mind subsides into the Self on entering deep sleep (or on Self-realisation). And the next time, when the mind arises again, perhaps on ‘waking’ up, the world including the Avatars begins afresh but from the same point and in a manner consistent with the point of last subsidence, so as to present a continuous picture. And so the presence of an Avatar in the world ‘now’, or at some remote point in the ‘past’ (as a part of the perceived history of the world being created each time) would not in any manner be against the drishti-srishti viewpoint.<BR/><BR/>David, I hope the foregoing made some sense.<BR/><BR/>[Respectfully submitted for all readers - one needs to be a bit careful here. It should not be inferred that because ‘we’ create the world when our mind or ego arises, ‘we’ are in any manner superior or even equal to the Avatars. ‘We’ are anyhow, ab initio, a ‘spurious’ entity arising from the Self, and in the scheme of hierarchy laid down in the ‘spurious’ world, ‘we’ come way way down the list. And David has very wisely reminded us of verse 39 of Ulladu Narpadu Anubandhan – “Keep Advaita within the Heart. Do not ever carry it into action ..... .” ]Arvind Lalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08360948041915924290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-69410501140061031372008-07-17T18:56:00.000+05:302008-07-17T18:56:00.000+05:30anonymousI know that Nisargadatta Maharaj said thi...anonymous<BR/><BR/>I know that Nisargadatta Maharaj said this. I was there one day when he said, 'The only thing that Ramana Maharshi said that I have no experience of is this business of the heart-centre on the right side of the chest'.<BR/><BR/>I think he followed this up by saying that consciousness was a product of brain activity, but I can't remember his exact words.<BR/><BR/>Until Bhagavan mentioned this right-side heart centre no saint in history had mentioned that consciousness arose from and disappeared into this point. It may have been something they experienced, but it does not appear in any of their writings or recorded dialogues. I have no explanation for this. I merely state it as a fact.David Godmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-91029119883849410352008-07-17T18:48:00.000+05:302008-07-17T18:48:00.000+05:30SubramanianIt wasn't Arvind who was hesitant about...Subramanian<BR/><BR/>It wasn't Arvind who was hesitant about coming here. He was merely giving advice to a woman in the US who felt that she would never get the chance of coming to Arunachala. Still, your story might inspire her that anything is possible if one entrusts one's future to Bhagavan.David Godmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-1145653361832903222008-07-17T18:32:00.000+05:302008-07-17T18:32:00.000+05:30Please, excuse my bad English. I believe Nisargada...Please, excuse my bad English. I believe Nisargadatta Maharaj is an enlighted being but he said he never had this experience of the I in the right side of the chest. (Nor Ramesh Balsekar). And Ramana Maharshi said that it was the seat of the Self. I would like to read your comments on this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-24032715666643428542008-07-17T17:59:00.000+05:302008-07-17T17:59:00.000+05:30Dear update, There is a detailed account on Cow La...Dear update, There is a detailed <BR/>account on Cow Lakshmi, in<BR/>David's three volume book The Power of the Presence, vol 3.Subramanian. Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07503810836611357841noreply@blogger.com