tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post3763545785075624084..comments2024-03-20T13:24:11.422+05:30Comments on Arunachala and Ramana Maharshi: Open ThreadDavid Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comBlogger966125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-30840681632411914332010-11-17T14:17:37.535+05:302010-11-17T14:17:37.535+05:30We are all searching for something which does not ...We are all searching for something which does not exit at all. <br /><br />We have so many answers / solutions, a real solution / answers should have wiped out all our questions.<br /><br />Either the question should end or an answer should end all our questions. <br /><br />Ashtavakara Gita - Only by forgetting all the knowledge one can free. Otherwise even if Siva / Brahama becomes your guru, it is of no use.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-5422812163556289232010-11-17T08:55:55.631+05:302010-11-17T08:55:55.631+05:30Dear David,Perhaps you would consider including Um...Dear David,<br><br>Perhaps you would consider including Uma Devi in your big Maurice Frydman project mentioned elsewhere. MF was her very close friend and associate in many projects. Sri Bhagavan’s devotees, though familiar with her from “Talks” or “Day by Day”, may not realize how extraordinary a lady she was. In many ways, much like MF, she led a life which is astonishing in its scope and influence. Her story is yet to be written.<br><br>Briefly, for those who may not know:<br><br>Umadevi, or Wanda Dynowska, was the chief of the Theosophical society, Poland in the 1920s. A great scholar of her times, she was the Professor of Slavonic Literature at the University of Madrea, and translated a whole host of Indian spiritual literature, from the Bhagavadgita to the Thirukural into Polish. For this purpose MF and WD created the “Polish-Indian Libraries” with perhaps as many as a 100+ books/articles published, an astonishing feat in itself for just 2 people. <br><br>Together they met virtually every Indian political and spiritual luminary of that time, for instance, Sri J. Krishnamurti, Mahatma Gandhi, the Dalai Lama etc. Gandhiji’s collected works, contains many letters written by him to WD ( & MF ) . The Dalai Lama has also spoken about her very fondly many times. WD was to later die in Tibet, trying to do help Tibetan children caught up in the Chinese purges.<br><br>Few also would know that she was the early influence in Poland in the spiritual life of one Mieczyslaw (one of the several first-names used by him) Sudowski, later on to be well known to Sri Bhagavan devotees as Mouni Sadhu, from Australia.<br><br>regardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-498447438088571602010-11-17T08:55:54.311+05:302010-11-17T08:55:54.311+05:30Dear Losing M. Mind.President Obama is a mature an...Dear Losing M. Mind.<br>President Obama is a mature and intelligent man but to jump to the<br>conclusion that he is a Jnani is perhaps somewhat premature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-3966424566919332432010-11-17T08:55:54.083+05:302010-11-17T08:55:54.083+05:30Nice comment ClemensNice comment ClemensBookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00859175677786233955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-63760308386292137442010-11-17T08:55:53.179+05:302010-11-17T08:55:53.179+05:30.Thinking aloud:A Variation of the WorldIt is the ....<br><br>Thinking aloud:<br><br><b>A Variation of the World</b><br><br>It is the restlessness of the mind causing the appearance of the world. The minds tries to express itself, it will speak, and by doing so and by aquiring the necessary means the human world appears. Why one talks? Why people talk with each other? They are seeing the world and because of their perceptions they can't bear to remain silent.<br><br>While abandoning the silence they deform the original world - made up of birds and flowers, rivers and mountains -, they create kind of a new world, a variation of the original world. <br><br>After living some time in this kind of an artificial world they abandon all their efforts therein and return to this ineffable space - being neither silence nor emptiness - which exists before, during and after this new world. <br><br>Isn't it therefore true to state that the origin of this world is nothing else then nervousness?<br><br>.Clemens Vargas Ramoshttp://imschatten.bplaced.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-54755996489200334102010-11-17T08:55:53.011+05:302010-11-17T08:55:53.011+05:30Attention BookwormI have been deleting most of you...Attention Bookworm<br><br>I have been deleting most of your comments recently because I find them to be inexcusably rude and offensive in tone. I think I have probably moderated out six in the last twenty-four hours alone. You are the primary reason why moderation exists on this blog. I haven't been keeping track, but I suspect I decline to publish less than one comment a month by other contributors.<br><br>I have finally had enough of the sneering contempt you persistently show towards other contributors, their teachers and their opinions. Irrespective of what you write, I will not be posting any of your comments here for three months. <br><br>If you are willing to engage with other contributors in a more civilised and respectful way, you can try again in mid-October.David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-70966703642466679822010-11-17T08:55:51.635+05:302010-11-17T08:55:51.635+05:30Friends,There has been a good deal of discussions ...Friends,<br>There has been a good deal of discussions on the 'How' of Self Enquiry.<br>Much more fundamental is 'why' we pursue any practice at all.What is 'motivating' us?<br>'Love' is one of the fundamental 'motivators'-We want to 'love' and be 'loved'-This basic attraction is the basis for the 'Path of Devotion'.<br><br>Likewise,why one wants to do 'self enquiry'?unless this is understood,the 'how' becomes ineffective.<br><br>I am keen to learn what you have to share regarding this.I understand that Scott has shared to a great extent-to break all 'shackles'(i.e one must have deeply felt these SHACKLES)and be FREE-There is this 'intense desire' for freedom.<br>-----------------------------------<br>Salutations.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-54348294470730406922010-11-17T08:55:50.471+05:302010-11-17T08:55:50.471+05:30anonymous to Maneesha,I thought your comment about...anonymous to Maneesha,<br>I thought your comment about self enquiry was really good and clearly explained.<br>Still we must remember that Ramana Maharshi plunged deep within useing self enquiry because of intense fear. Fear was the catalyst! Only a rare man like that can face it headon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-34249246070685916992010-11-17T08:55:49.900+05:302010-11-17T08:55:49.900+05:30.... Now this sort of a 'boon'(?!) will ta....<br><br><i>... Now this sort of a 'boon'(?!) will take the sting out of the Transitoriness of Existence. What happens in this case? What will be the 'Motivating' factor? ...</i><br><br>The answer for this is given in part II, verse 1 and 2:<br><br>"Yama said: The good is one thing and the pleasant another. These two, having different ends, bind a man. It is well with him who chooses the good. He who chooses the pleasant misses the true end."<br><br>"The good and the pleasant approach man; the wise examines both and discriminates between them; the wise prefers the good to the pleasant, but the foolish man chooses the pleasant through love of bodily pleasure."<br><br>Death is our true master - there is no other then the King of Death because he makes us discriminate between the perishable and the unperishable, between eternity and wordliness. <br><br>Someone having a human master since a long time but still is unable to discriminate has to admit that his master obviously is unable to teach this point. The human master may utter a fruitless stream of words related to enlightenment but when death comes we will understand immediately.<br><br>.Clemens Vargas Ramoshttp://imschatten.bplaced.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-87356814370987347912010-11-17T08:55:49.733+05:302010-11-17T08:55:49.733+05:30Ramos/Friends,What is the 'Motivation' in ...Ramos/Friends,<br>What is the 'Motivation' in the present moment?Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-48023688325612020602010-11-17T08:55:49.412+05:302010-11-17T08:55:49.412+05:30Friends,The Latest discussions in this thread is r...Friends,<br>The Latest discussions in this thread is revolving around 'Nitya-Anitya' Viveka(Discrimination) And 'Mumukshutva'.It is helpful to recall what LMM(Scott) had posted on 29 06 2009 (in the other open Thread).I am copying it here for our benefit:<br><br>"Bookworm, on yearning for REalization<br>From Collected Works:<br><br>Maharshi's translation of Crest Jewel of Discrimination by Adi Shankara:<br><br>Liberation in the form of abidance as the Self, born of that wisdom, is not to be attained except as a result of righteous actions performed throughout countless crores of births.<br><br>However, even though all the above qualifications may not be obtained, Liberation is assured through the Grace of the Lord if only three conditions are obtained: that is a human birth, ***intense desire for liberation***, and association with Sages.<br><br>It goes on to say...The qualifications are enumerated as follows<br>1. Discrimination between the Real and Unreal.(<br>2. Disinclination to enjoy the fruits of one's actions either in this or any future life.<br>3.The six virtues of tranquility, self-control, withdrawal, forbearance, faith, and concentration of the Self.<br>4. ***Intense yearning for Liberation***<br><br>Nome (who supposedly Realized the Self) wrote a pamphlet on these entitled the Four Requisites for Realization and Self-Inquiry.<br><br>What he had to say (part of) on the fourth Intense yearning for Liberation;<br><br>The desire for Liberation functions as the fuel for one's spiritual practice. If all sorts of attributes are present, even the other requisites mentioned, but there is a lack of desire for Liberation, actual advancement, as determined by the degree of freedom from misidentification, will be slow, if at all.<br><br>If though, the aspirant would have none of the other requisites or beneficial attributes, but was endowed with an intense desire for Liberation, the other needed requisites and such would manifest in due course of the practice of Self-inquiry. When the requisites are practiced fueled by the desire for Liberation, the highest good results."<br><br>-----------------------------------<br>Namaskar.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-53010271965522398592010-11-17T08:55:24.814+05:302010-11-17T08:55:24.814+05:3092 When attention is paid exclusively to the [infi...92 When attention is paid exclusively to the [infinite] space that never gets fragmented, the effect, the finite pot, will not shine at all. Therefore, it is an error to say that just because the pot moves, the space within the pot moves as well.<br><br>93 Since in the plenitude of the Self the imperfections – the inert body and the world that comprise the non-Self – will never exist and shine, it is not logical to say that the Self too experiences the movements of that body and world, which are bound for destruction.<br><br>94 The Self abides motionless because of its all-pervasive fullness. Because the apparent connection between the Self and the mind-limitation seems to exist on account of ignorance – which is the jiva-perspective, the reflected consciousness that rises as ‘I’ – the Self too appears to have experienced movement through the motion of the mind. But the movement of samsara that comprises birth and death, bondage and liberation, and so on, is only for the jiva and never for the Self, the transcendental reality.<br><br>Muruganar: The reason why the Self remains motionless is because of its nature as all-pervasive fullness. It only appears to have moved on account of the movement of the mind. In agitated water the reflected image of the sun appears to move, but that agitation is only in the reflection and not in the real sun.<br><br>95 If it is asked, ‘How has the Supreme Self, the one without a second, come to possess the limitation of the mind, the form of ignorance?’ the reply is, ‘The limitation has attached itself only through the deluded jiva-perspective. In truth, it never attached itself to the Self, consciousness.’<br><br>Muruganar: In the same way that, through confusion, a rope is perceived as a snake, consciousness appears as mind through the delusion of the jiva. When one enquires into the matter, no such entity as mind will be seen to exist at all separate from consciousness. Like someone questioning a kind person who looks after his parents very well, ‘How did you acquire this habit of annoying your parents?’ the question itself is fundamentally inappropriate.<br><br>96 The little jiva will not rise as a tiny separate ‘I’-entity from the supreme reality that is the plenitude of consciousness. Only from a ball of fire of finite size can tiny sparks split off, fly away and fall to the ground.<br><br>Editor’s note: Since consciousness is all pervasive, nothing can arise from within it and then become separate from it. The idea of a separate jiva is therefore just an erroneous idea that arises through ignorance.<br><br>97 The body itself does not exist in the unrestricted view of the real Self, but only in outward-turned attention, which is the perspective of the mind that has become deluded through the expansion of maya. Therefore, it is wrong to call the Self, which is the vast expanse of consciousness, the owner-occupier of the body.David Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-39424157852733237592010-11-17T08:55:23.428+05:302010-11-17T08:55:23.428+05:30Friends,It is interesting to see what Sri Aurobind...Friends,<br>It is interesting to see what Sri Aurobindo has to say on 'Maya' and advaita(Letters on Yoga):<br><br>"People are apt to speak of the Adwaita as if it were identical<br>with Mayavada monism, just as they speak of Vedanta as<br>if it were identical with Adwaita only; that is not the case.<br>There are several forms of Indian philosophy which base<br>themselves upon the One Reality, but they admit also the reality<br>of the world, the reality of the Many, the reality of the<br>differences of the Many as well as the sameness of the One<br>(bhedÀbheda). But the Many exist in the One and by the One,<br>the differences are variations in manifestation of that which<br>is fundamentally ever the same. This we actually see as the<br>universal law of existence where oneness is always the basis<br>with an endless multiplicity and difference in the oneness;<br>as, for instance, there is one mankind but many kinds of man,<br>one thing called leaf or flower but many forms, patterns, colours<br>of leaf and flower. Through this we can look back into one<br>of the fundamental secrets of existence, the secret which is contained<br>in the one Reality itself. The oneness of the Infinite is not<br>something limited, fettered to its unity; it is capable of an infinite<br>multiplicity. The Supreme Reality is an Absolute not<br>limited by either oneness or multiplicity but simultaneously capable<br>of both; for both are its aspects, although the oneness<br>is fundamental and the multiplicity depends upon the oneness."<br><br>Sri Aurobindo's position is equally based on direct first hand experience(This word is used to indicate something Fundamental-not a Fleeting phenomena).This is supported by the verses in the Vedas and Upanishads-as much as the other Standpoints.<br>-----------------------------------<br>I have stated the above to just say that there are different views of Different Schools-and these schools were championed by persons who had Direct ,First Hand experience.<br>One may be inclined to prefer one school of thought-this is only natural.<br>Namaskar.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-5761719228776887482010-11-17T08:55:23.067+05:302010-11-17T08:55:23.067+05:30Dear David,I came across the below text from '...Dear David,<br>I came across the below text from 'Be as you are' [Pg 45, Ch:Self enquiry-theory].<br><br>"Since the individual `I'-thought cannot exist without an object, if attention is focused on the subjective feeling of `I' or `I am' with such intensity that the thoughts `I am this' or `I am that' do not arise, then the individual `I' will be unable to connect with objects. If this awareness of `I' is sustained, the individual `I' (the `I'-thought) will disappear and in its place there will be a direct experience of the Self. <b>This constant attention to the inner awareness of ` I ' or `I am' was called self-enquiry (vichara) by Sri Ramana</b>"<br><br>Can you please elaborate on "constant attention to the inner awareness of 'I'"?<br><br>From what I have gathered from reading Maharshi's books for the last couple of years, I have understood that the actual enquiry is to seek the source of the 'I'-thought, as to from where it raises. The "attention on awareness of I", I have believed is a preliminary process, which helps gather higher concentration for actual enquiry. It will be great if you can quote from any of Maharshi's texts regarding this.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Srikantha.Srikanthahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14941612784307919228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-86516092005751958262010-11-17T08:55:22.334+05:302010-11-17T08:55:22.334+05:30I agree Ravi,I first saw Arunachala on Nov 23 2008...I agree Ravi,<br><br>I first saw Arunachala on Nov 23 2008.<br><br>I was stunned to see such power.<br><br>That night I slowly crept to the terrace of Nannagaru ashram to spend some time with Arunachala. But seeing the overpowering infinite form of the Hill with a magnificent cloud hugging its peak, my knees shivered in fright and my spine froze to the bone, prostrating before an unknown Power which was emanating from the Hill.<br><br>I had to call my brother in law to sit beside me after some time for I was dead scared to see the Hill! My heart was throbbing like mad.<br><br>I felt a margin of that fear perhaps in front of Lord Venkateshwara in Tirupathi previously. But never to the intensity of Arunachala.<br><br>After that everytime I think of Arunachala...especially the first time I saw it and more so whence I saw it from the terrace of Nannagaru Asramam in the night, all alone...I shiver.<br><br>perhaps David can start an open thread about first sight of Arunachala and experiences and we all can chip in with our feelings.<br><br>thank you, thank you, thank you a million times for reminding me of my first sight of Arunachala.ArunachalaHearthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03562370945818853323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-74646968804837815682010-11-17T08:55:21.891+05:302010-11-17T08:55:21.891+05:30Dear Nandu,Thanks for your reply.You say - "A...Dear Nandu,<br>Thanks for your reply.<br><br>You say - "As I have read, from both David's explanation of SE and as recorded in 'Be As You Are', the technique of "attention on awareness of I" seems to be one of isolating the 'I' thought and holding on to that experience for as long as possible. In an interview, David has clarified that this experience will be but fleeting in the beginning."<br><br>I understand this technique of isolating the 'I' thought and holding on to it. But is that all enquiry? In my understanding, just holding on to the I-thought is more a mano-laya than mano-nasha. After reaching this 'I-am' (ego) awareness, isn't seeking the very source from where this I-thought arises, the true Self-enquiry? Please clarify.Srikanthahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14941612784307919228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-38069029737915809442010-11-17T08:55:20.947+05:302010-11-17T08:55:20.947+05:30Friends,I wish to share this excerpt from The Gosp...Friends,<br>I wish to share this excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna(Chapter 16:With The Devotees at Dakshineswar)-The Master says:<br>"One must have childlike faith-and the intense yearning that a child feels to see its mother. That yearning is like the red sky in the east at dawn. After such a sky the sun must rise. Immediately after that yearning one sees God.<br><br>"Let me tell you the story of a boy named Jatila. He used to walk to school through the woods, and the journey frightened him; One day he told his mother of his fear. She replied: 'Why should you be afraid? Call Madhusudana.' 'Mother,' asked the boy, 'who is Madhusudana?' The mother said, 'He is your Elder Brother.' One day after this, when the boy again felt afraid in the woods, he cried out, 'O Brother Madhusudana!' But there was no response. He began to weep aloud: 'Where are You, Brother Madhusudana? Come to me. I am afraid.' Then God could no longer stay away. He appeared before the boy and said: 'Here I am. Why are you frightened?' And so, saying He took the boy out of the woods and showed him the way to school. When He took leave of the boy, God said: 'I will come whenever you call Me. Do not be afraid.' One must have this faith of a child, this yearning."<br>....................<br>What is the impact of the words of the Master?We get to see a little later in that same chapter!<br>"Late at night M. sat alone in the nahabat. The sky, the river, the garden, the steeples of the temples; the trees, and the Panchavati were flooded with moonlight. Deep silence reigned everywhere, broken only by the melodious murmuring of the Ganges. M. was meditating on Sri Ramakrishna.<br><br>At three o'clock in the morning M. left his seat. He proceeded toward the Panchavati as Sri Ramakrishna. had suggested. He did not care for the nahabat any more and resolved to stay in the hut in the Panchavati.<br><br>Suddenly he heard a distant sound, as if someone were wailing piteously, "Oh, where art Thou, Brother Madhusudana?" The light of the full moon streamed through the thick foliage of the Panchavati, and as he proceeded he saw at a distance one of the Master's disciples sitting alone in the grove, crying helplessly, "Oh, where art Thou, Brother Madhusudana?"<br>Silently M. watched him."<br>-----------------------------------<br>I wish to add that 'Bhavana' is not the same as 'Kalpana'.I have seen quite often both the words translated as 'Imagination'.Kalpana is 'Imagination'/Fancy and is a mental product.<br>'Bhavana' is one's 'particular' Feeling of SOMETHING REAL.One may not have a full measure of this Reality but one may have a 'Hook' to hold onto it.<br>'Kalpana' belongs to the 'Future',something yet to come.<br>'Bhavana' is in the 'Present'.<br><br>When the Master tells in this story 'You Have an Elder Brother',he is saying something that is TRUE,in a manner that is accessible in Human Terms-A small beginning will lead to the Full Truth.<br>The above is 'bhavana'.Contrast this with the statement-'There is a Ghost in the Next Room'-This is Kalpana,as no such thing is Real.<br>----------------------------------<br><br>Namaskar.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-46618602130229736062010-11-17T08:55:20.160+05:302010-11-17T08:55:20.160+05:30Friends,The Following excerpt from Day By Day with...Friends,<br>The Following excerpt from Day By Day with Bhagavan-page 55 throws light on the implications of 'Who Am I'?<br><br>"I returned here last night. Maha Vir Prasad, Chief Engineer<br>to the U. P. Government who had been staying here for about<br>twenty days in October and November and who went on a<br>pilgrimage to Rameswaram and other places, is back here. In<br>continuation of an old question of his with reference to a certain<br>passage in Maha Yoga, he asked Bhagavan whether it was<br>necessary and a condition precedent for a man to watch his<br>breathing before beginning the mental quest ‘Who am I?’<br><br>Bhagavan: All depends on a man’s pakva, i.e., his<br>aptitude and fitness. Those who have not the mental strength<br>to concentrate or control their mind and direct it on the quest<br>are advised to watch their breathing, since such watching will<br>naturally and as a matter of course lead to cessation of thought<br>and bring the mind under control.<br>Breath and mind arise from the same place and when<br>one of them is controlled, the other is also controlled. As a<br>matter of fact, in the quest method — which is more correctly<br>‘Whence am I?’ and not merely ‘Who am I?’ — we are not<br>simply trying to eliminate saying ‘we are not the body, not<br>the senses and so on,’ to reach what remains as the ultimate<br>reality, but we are trying to find whence the ‘I’ thought for the<br>ego arises within us. The method contains within it, though<br>implicitly and not expressly, the watching of the breath. When<br>we watch wherefrom the ‘I’-thought, the root of all thoughts,<br>springs, we are necessarily watching the source of breath also,<br>as the ‘I’-thought and the breath arise from the same source."<br><br>The 'Self Enquiry' is breaking the chain of thoughts and switching over to a state of awareness.No isolation of 'I' thought and 'Holding' onto it is implied.Attention is part and parcel of this awareness.<br><br>The Point in repeatedly enquiring 'who am I'?is to just break the chain of thoughts and see whether this 'Switch over' happens.(Immediately,not after sometime).It is not as if one follows the 'chain' and arrives at the 'source'.Once the 'Switching over' happens,there is no further need for this nonverbal question.<br>-----------------------------------<br>A certain quietude of mind is a prerequisite for this to be effective.Otherwise it is not possible to effect the switch over.<br>Namaskar.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-54599372075729453732010-11-17T08:55:19.732+05:302010-11-17T08:55:19.732+05:30Dear Friends,Request your views.I read one account...Dear Friends,<br><br>Request your views.<br><br>I read one account where the author tries to explain how to get into the aware state atleast momentarily.He says through an analogy of how to recognise the aware state. <br><br>I would request your views on the following. Personally, I felt that this is a brilliant and clear description but I am not sure where it is correct. <br><br>Here is the extract of the article:<br><br>"During meditation everybody has the experience of suddenly realizing that for the previous five or ten minutes they hadn't been meditating at all. They got lost in daydreams without realizing it. Suddenly they snap back to their senses and realize, "Oops! I lost my concentration and got lost in daydreams for several minutes without noticing it. I only just noticed and remembered this instant that I was supposed to be meditating." <br><br>If the last paragraph isn't familiar to you, try meditating some more until you notice this experience happening to you. <br><br>What does this experience have to do with the aware state? Well, at the instant that you snap back to your senses, you are momentarily in the aware state.. An instant later you will probably begin to berate yourself for abandoning your meditation, causing you to slip back into the ordinary lost-in-thoughts state, but at the very moment in which you come back to yourself, you are in the aware state. (To be precise, you are closer to the aware state at that moment. It's really a matter of degree.)<br><br>Keep putting yourself in situations where this experience happens, and each time, try to notice the heightening of awareness that occurs at that moment. <br><br>(Incidentally, if you've ever been puzzled by the traditional instruction to look at the space between two thoughts, this is what it's refering to. At the moment I'm describing, your daydreaming just ended and your next thought hasn't yet carried you away.)<br><br>As you observe these moments more carefully, you'll begin to see that thinking and awareness are polar opposites. The more you have of one, the less you have of the other. At one end of the continuum, you are lost in thought. At the other end, you are aware.<br> <br>You can learn to move voluntarily between these two states, but most people remain lost in thought during almost all of their waking hours. They never notice that the aware state exists. <br><br>As you observe the difference between the two states you will notice that when you are thinking, you aren't really conscious. This may sound strange, but you'll see for yourself that it's true. When we think, we are actually lost in thought and not aware. When we become aware, we emerge from thoughts. We stop being lost and find something — ourselves. This is why some people call the aware state "self remembering" or "knowing that you are." Try it, you'll see. These traditional terms make sense once you see what they refer to.<br><br>You'll also see why most forms of meditation are useless. Meditation only works if it gets you into the aware state, but most people stay in the lost-in-thoughts state when they do it.<br><br>Real meditation is remaining in the aware state continuosly."<br><br>Regards MuraliMuralihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04720150736535781474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-71507557571319636072010-11-17T08:55:19.005+05:302010-11-17T08:55:19.005+05:30.It's in my eyes a fine and clear description ....<br><br>It's in my eyes a fine and clear description of the kind we have in vedantic texts (Tripura Rahasya elaborates on that). <br><br>Implicitly it points to the fact that we can't be "aware of awareness" - we only can be aware of changes in conciousness. While we are daydreaming we don't know that it is daydreaming. We know it afterwards. <br><br>Explicitly it emphasizes that we can be conscious of a state of "not thinking", and that there is a practice to understand and to live this. But in my eyes we need the further understanding that this is a process of thinking too.<br><br>We need to understand that awareness is independent of consciousness, independent even from life or death. <br><br>I define "awareness" as the presence of consciousness but the absence of the "I". It is not the type of consciousness the "I" knows (as experiences).<br><br>The "I" can't understand this. It can't understand how to survive in the absence of consciousness because all of its activities are based on that type of consciousness.<br><br>There is the need to eradicate consciously the endless stream of mental images caused by personal thinking, the "I", and then to see what remains.<br><br>.Clemens Vargas Ramoshttp://imschatten.bplaced.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-6727441021516849622010-11-17T08:55:18.464+05:302010-11-17T08:55:18.464+05:30Friends,Raj had asked:"do you know of anyone ...Friends,<br>Raj had asked:<br>"do you know of anyone in recent times who has successfully followed karma yoga as a path to salvation?"<br>As I had said that this sort of classification as Gnana,Yoga,Bhakti,Karma is more for easy assimilation-They are but different modes of Living and are inseperable.In The outward manifestation one or the other may appear to predominate.That is all there to it.<br><br>It is interesting to see what Sadhu Arunachala(Major Chadwick) had to say regarding the exemplars in recent times(From:A Sadhu's reminiscences-page 54)<br>"The classic examples of these four Yogas in modern<br>times are: Jnanam, Sri Ramana Maharshi; Bhakti,<br>Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa; Yoga, Sri Aurobindo of<br>Pondicherry; and Karma, Sri Shankaracharya of Kanchi<br>Peetam, the only one of the above still in the body."<br><br>A Study of the Life of the Sage of Kanchi and Teachings is extremely rewarding.One gets a comprehensive ,all inclusive,balanced view of Vedic Living.The Teachings are available in about 8 Volumes-covering all the aspects of Gnana,Bhakti,Yoga and Karma(individual and collective aspects).This is a Joy to Read-Nothing academic at all.Everything is put in its place and given due weightage.I understand that These are Translated into English-but nothing like reading them in Tamil.<br>I warmly recommend 'Deivathin Kural'(Voice of The Divine)to all aspirants who understand and can read Tamil.<br><br>Namaskar.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-80414567846989903812010-11-17T08:55:17.489+05:302010-11-17T08:55:17.489+05:30Scott,I have referred to Master TGN-Please see my ...Scott,<br>I have referred to Master TGN-Please see my post in the open thread on Vichara dated August 2,2008(To Arvind).<br>Your 'assumption' that I may be referring to Sri Ramakrishna is quite understandable-indeed the very mention of his name acts like a charm on me.All masters are dear to me.<br>Sri Ramakrishna had the unique gift of expressing the most subtle Truths in a homely down to Earth Fashion.The Way he expresses what I have mentioned(Regarding dealing with worldly affairs)is like this-He says:<br>He who does not know the Price of Salt(world) will not know the Price of Sugar(God)!<br>If other Masters are like 'Teachers in the Classroom',Sri Ramakrishna is like a Personal Tutor at Home!He will allow you to go your way and you will find that you have come to his way!This is the unique charm of this Great Master.<br>Salutations.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-89216030185964868932010-11-17T08:55:17.023+05:302010-11-17T08:55:17.023+05:30Shiba said:"For me,'concentrate on I-thou...Shiba said:<br><br>"For me,'concentrate on I-thought' is easier to understand about how to do self-enquiry than 'find the source'."<br><br>My experience is also same. I wondered for a long time as to what is meant by "find the source"? Practically, when I close my eyes, what am i supposed to do? What is meant by this "finding" when I am sitting closing my eyes?<br><br>I found the answer only after I came in touch with David Godman and it got further confirmation from Sadhu Om's book.<br><br>Once I understood that it means focusing on the feeling of 'I', I realized that what else can we do? Suppose I close my eyes and start looking inside, I can just do two things - either observe my thoughts or observe the feeling of I. What else is possible? Observing the thoughts is nothing different from observing the gross objects outside. So, what is left is observing the feeling of I. I did not have anything else to do apart from this and hence I accepted that this is all I can do and this what Bhagavan meant.<br><br>Except observing the feeling I, everything else is a concept for me at this stage. For example, "The Heart", "The source of I", "chakras", "kundalini" etc., etc., are all just concepts and Bhagavan told that we should reject all concepts. So, what else is left but just to hang on to the feeling of I? <br><br>I am a novice on the path and hence I dont say that I am right but this is all I can do at this stage.<br><br><br>Regards MuraliMuralihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04720150736535781474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-19767322211317087122010-11-17T08:55:16.340+05:302010-11-17T08:55:16.340+05:30So Maharshi is saying focus on the personality, an...So Maharshi is saying focus on the personality, and I'm thinking, he means to explore it's unreality. Who am I? is more then a rote question, it's sort of it seems, an acknowledgement, that this personality, for instance that is having these thoughts and typing them is not real, and by not real, the thing that seems obvious about that, is that it is imaginary, it's not even tangible, it's not even sensed, I don't even know what this persoanlity is. I do know, that there is a feeilng of safety with it. Self-inquiry seems to be an exploration that I am Being-Consciousness-Bliss, I am what that refers to. This Self that is eternal, infinite and the source of peace, is what is, there is not something else. What I'm typing now is Self-inquiry, because it's an earnest attempt to reason out, and understand what these teachings mean, and in doing so, it brings me in touch with more peaceful experience. I can't remember which is which, but there is manana, sravana, and niddidyasana.(sorry if I'm butchering the spelling). One is listening, and then trying to understand, and I believe niddidyasana is deep meditation. Aftter coming to a deeper understanding, I leave the level of thought. Leave it, I don't fight it. I just don't need to think any more, I can dive deeper into this sense of peace without thinking, just let it take hold of me. That is what Nome quoting Shankara has referred to as deep, profound, meditation, a practice of samadhi.Losing M. Mindhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08593870441560584967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-34610154744120571882010-11-17T08:55:14.831+05:302010-11-17T08:55:14.831+05:30Murali says:From what I gather from Bhagavan, if a...Murali says:<br><br>From what I gather from Bhagavan, if anyone has interest in Self Enquiry, it means the following<br>a. The person has the required ripeness<br>b. The person has accumualated enough punyam (merits)<br><br>I am very happy to hear that.But I have not read such comments from Bhagavan,so I would like you to teach me the books or articles which contain such comments.<br><br>For me, Bhagavan's way to teach self-enquiry is somehow confusing.<br><br>And I would like to ask David,does your understanding of the way of self-enquiry derive from not only intellectual understandeing but also your experiences of practice of self-enquiry?I read your interviews but I have not read your experiences of practice very much.I am very interested in experiences of experts.It must be useful for novice like me.<br><br>regards shibashibanoreply@blogger.com