tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post2911549093131067026..comments2024-03-20T13:24:11.422+05:30Comments on Arunachala and Ramana Maharshi: Apologies for my absenceDavid Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-15032399442912584482010-11-17T08:58:23.075+05:302010-11-17T08:58:23.075+05:30Scott Fraundorf:What, the question about the alien...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>What, the question about the aliens?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-79412823216925260822010-11-17T08:58:22.730+05:302010-11-17T08:58:22.730+05:30David...do you not print some of my comments and I...David...do you not print some of my comments and I am sure the comments of others because your Heart tells you not to or because your head tells you not to?Bookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00859175677786233955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-65679617072847422892010-11-17T08:58:22.262+05:302010-11-17T08:58:22.262+05:30Scott Fraundorf:What about sages that do not devia...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>What about sages that do not deviate at all from Ramana, such as Muruganar, Lakshmana Swami, Papaji, Annamalai Swami, Saradamma?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-54139395151156803102010-11-17T08:58:22.132+05:302010-11-17T08:58:22.132+05:30Scott Fraundorf:That's interesting, I looked u...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>That's interesting, I looked up pictures of Adi Da and I immediately got a bad feeling, similar to with Osho. Too much pomp and circumstance, and dying in Figi with millions. Weird. But I can't really make a judgement besides on both of your bad experiences. It's perhaps good I skipped the being starry eyed about spirituality phase, preferring punk rock and anarchy instead.<br><br>I've been corresponding, not in that I'm that special, but as in he seems to be a genuine spiritual teacher, Nome in Santa Cruz. I suspect he's fully realized, but it's not something I want to debate over, although feel free. But the reason I trust him at this point, is and I can't explain it too well verbally, his e-mail responses which have been frequent have been dispassionate, impersonal, more then any person I've ever met, and directing me to seek happiness within. There has been no feeling of him trying to take power over me, or toot his own horn. When I asked him if he was a jnani, he said that "the consideration of whether Nome is a jnani is irrelevent to your Inquiry, Sri Ramana said the Realized can take care of themselves, and so you should take care of yourself". So evidently, he doesn't want me speculating on his state. Following that advise, but it is interesting that the President of Sri RamanaAsram asked him to write some verses for the commemoration of Ramana's arrival at Arunachala, and the President of the Ramana Maharshi center of learning in Tirumunavalai said only someone aware of Ramana's flowing grace could write commentaries on writings of Maharshi, Nome clearly has that awareness of the Maharshi's flowing grace, he said. When I was brought to society of Abdiance in truth (SAT), I experienced complete absorption in the Self which is why I sought out Inquiry, and from getting responses from him. Not only that, there is no big shot vibe, he has responded to all my serious questions, ignoring some of the idle intellectual curiosity questions, or responding but only to turn my attention from the intellect. And I was already at a place, where I wasn't going to be easily had, or was looking for a guru. This kind of guru-ship that I've perhaps found, is not me worshipping or looking up to him as an authority figure, but that his responses have helped me realize my own Self far deeper then I had previously, and taking me out of the mind-world. I just wanted to put that out there. From my experiences, and I'm no expert, it seems to me is that the best way to find a good living teacher, is to do Self-Inquiry and not to look for one, or not to buy into one, but if around someone you experience the Self, stay in contact and experience the Self more and more, until you get firmly established there. But if that's not happening, then there's no point in teachers that have intellectual knowledge, want to make money, or have power over others. Intellectual I would never have been able to suss out that Nome was a genuine teacher, and initially I felt negative about him. I only write him, because I experience the Self clearly on a regular basis by doing so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-19114600601454995572010-11-17T08:58:21.568+05:302010-11-17T08:58:21.568+05:30Scott Fraundorf:I should also add that while I lov...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>I should also add that while I love David Godman's translations of alot of different writing, when I read Nome's translations of Who am I? and other Maharshi writings, as well as the Tamil and Sanksrit Ribhu Gita, my mind is immediately obliterated by grace. My little stupid theory on it, is that it's because since Nome's ego has completely subsided for good in the Self, his translations capture Maharshi's graceful words into English in a way that only a fellow Self-Realized could.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-31059036134261444452010-11-17T08:58:21.341+05:302010-11-17T08:58:21.341+05:30Bookworm,"I did learn the most important less...Bookworm,<br>"I did learn the most important lesson of my life from the experience...never again to forget, or need, or allow another precedence...over the certain Truth that is Ramana."<br>This is invaluable-to have this sort of faith and conviction.<br>This will lead to seeing RAMANA in all,including adi da or X or Y or Z.<br>The most important lesson to be learnt is to recognise that we ALONE are responsible for whatever happens to us,not the 'Other' person.<br>Best Regards.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-36916942261514267972010-11-17T08:58:20.404+05:302010-11-17T08:58:20.404+05:30Scott Fraundorf:I don't know if this would be ...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>I don't know if this would be deviating too much, but something somehow relating to this issue of fake teachers that claim Ramana as their "guru", if there was some way to dive into that, since the questions about Nome, or Adi Da, and others, might relate to an interesting topic for a post. I don't know how that might be done, but relate it strictly to Ramana's teaching. I guess why I trust Nome is that Ramana said the sense of peace you feel, and the sense of respect are the signs of a genuine spiritual teacher. Around every manipulative abuser I've been around, at some point, I switch from being at peace around them, to feeling anxious, and like their trying to push me to places I don't want to go. That's a good rule of thumb, I think. No such feeling as of yet around Nome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-65591361593697408232010-11-17T08:58:19.983+05:302010-11-17T08:58:19.983+05:30Scott Fraundorf:And also Bookworm, it does seem th...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>And also Bookworm, it does seem that being around a living Realized person, someone who "knows the ropes" so to speak, and yes they probably are extremely rare, less then 1 in a million, perhaps less (according to David Godman). But it seems that it is extremely helpful, and probably necessary for most people, who are interested in Self-Realization (according to David Godman).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-60861462337782890932010-11-17T08:58:19.702+05:302010-11-17T08:58:19.702+05:30Scott,"I would be interested in your sincere ...Scott,<br>"I would be interested in your sincere opinion on Nome"<br>Friend,if you feel benefitted and your devotion and faith is genuine,this is all that matters.You need not go by the opinions or gossips of others.If SELF is the only Reality then Nome or Sri Ramana or any other Teacher is and can only be THAT.<br>As Sri Ramakrishna used to say-"'Therefore I say, 'Even though my guru frequents a grog-shop, still to me he is the embodiment of Eternal Bliss.' All want to be the guru, but very few indeed want to be a disciple."<br>The Right thing to ask is this-Am I a True Disciple,not whether X,Y or Z is a GENUINE GURU.<br><br>There is no GURU who has not had some detractors,and this is true of Great Masters like Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Bhagavan.<br><br>Remember that even a Vagabond can be a Guru if WE CHOOSE TO BE A DISCIPLE.As Emerson in his wonderful essay on SELF RELIANCE said-"Although foolishly uttered,they can be wisely heard"<br><br>Friend,if you find Nome's Translations and other words helpful,this is all that matters.It is the GURU who is reaching out to you.If this Faith grows,you will simply set aside all contrarian views like a Lotus Leaf remaining untouched by the water drops sprayed on it.<br><br>Wishing you the very Best.Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-71521903143587627982010-11-17T08:58:19.380+05:302010-11-17T08:58:19.380+05:30Hi Scott,Feel free to contact me outside this thre...Hi Scott,<br><br>Feel free to contact me outside this thread if you would like my impressions on Nome (the link on my page should work). I've been to see him several times.<br><br>Seek your own happiness, Scott and it will work out fine. (my way of concurring with Ravi's fine post).<br><br>gusmeestergushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14785288341945066330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-44386281775917009552010-11-17T08:58:19.223+05:302010-11-17T08:58:19.223+05:30Scott Fraundorf:Ravi,What you've said makes al...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>Ravi,<br>What you've said makes alot of sense, it doesn't matter me evaluating other people's state, if I derive benefit from a certain teacher is what matters. As you said, everyone wants to be a guru, few want to be a disciple. It only matters whether I'm a true disciple. If I'm a true disciple, that is dilligently practicing the sadhana, the Inquiry, then I don't have to worry about others, what their state is. And if certain teachers are helpful in the practice, and turning my mind inward, that's what is important. Good point. Arunachala101 maybe is a little pretentious, but when I started this, it was the first thing I thought of.arunachala101http://www.blogger.com/profile/15563433614088675157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-15509585828513666772010-11-17T08:58:18.935+05:302010-11-17T08:58:18.935+05:30David,Are you in touch with Papaji's devotees ...David,<br>Are you in touch with Papaji's devotees - those who are profiled in 'Nothing Ever Happened'. Do they continue to feel Papaji's grace? Do they have more interesting stories (those left out from the book or those you heard about later) to add? Do any of them teach regularly or are willing to share their experiences?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-37906197168407071182010-11-17T08:58:18.676+05:302010-11-17T08:58:18.676+05:30Shiba the Japanese man:"So,self-enqiry maybe ...Shiba the Japanese man:<br><br>"So,self-enqiry maybe more easy and gentle practice than I thought."<br><br>Self-enquiry is not a "fight". The practice is allowing the mind to rest. Do you know the feeling of refreshment upon waking up in the morning? The mind feels fresh and centered. Staying centered is enquiry.<br><br>Self-enquiry takes only persistence, not effort. If the practice seems to take effort it is because you are trying to disrupt the usual flow of thoughts and feeling you have. Don't do this. Do what feels natural. The practice should help to relieve stress, not add to it. <br><br>Only extraneous thoughts should be eliminated by directing your attention to the "I" or "center".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-60596011197285812532010-11-17T08:58:18.088+05:302010-11-17T08:58:18.088+05:30Scott Fraundorf:Nope, I'm being nice and avoid...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>Nope, I'm being nice and avoiding dominating new threads as much as possible, to allow for dialoguing fun, unless of course it's a direct response, on topic. my meandering, irrelevent stuff that no one reads, the mad man on the corner, I keep that elsewhere As much as possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-10629705376773569082010-11-17T08:58:17.870+05:302010-11-17T08:58:17.870+05:30scott Fraundorf:Yeah, what's the difference. I...scott Fraundorf:<br><br>Yeah, what's the difference. It does take effort, but it's an effort to cease effort, it shouldn't stay with effort. If it is effortful, who is making the effort? And then where is the source of happiness? What is eternal? For me, it's my problems, and worries that keep me bound, so whose problems are those? That's less of effort in the sense of strain, and more effort in the sense of practicing seeing only the awareness that is aware. It started with strain, but for there to be strain, there must be one straining, who is that? That's why Tamil Song of Ribhu helps me because it approaches all those dualistic notions, of one or the other, and relinquishes them. For instance even effort, versus non-effort is dualistic. Persevering versus laziness is dualistic. Inquiring versus living in Samsara is dualistic. Guru, devotee is dualistic. Enlightened, versus non-enlightened is dualistic. Pleasure and pain, desire, and renunciation. The sadhana so often involves those dualisms that must be give up at the outset. If they are given up at the outset, Inquiry is much less of a struggle, because it's not steeped in the notions of having to be one or the other, I should be doing this instead of that. That is bad advise, whereas this is good advise. He's a fraud, whereas they are the real deal. She talks the talk, he walks the walk. Jnani, ajnani. Dvaita, advaita And then in the Song of Ribhu every verse ends with stuff like, "there is and only ever has been the Supreme Brahman alone", or "Ever abide in bliss without a trace of a concept, in that itself, as that itself", "One who realizes this is a Jivanmukta" Then when I've read a chapter or two slowly, and let it sink in, it non-acting externally like a non-guru guru, when I'm out doing the activities that I'm "supposed" to do to survive, it's much easier to stay clean of any duality, any wayward thought. So that is something that I haven't seen so much focused on here, is that the dualities that have to be given up, in a sense have to be given up at the outset. Inquiry, the struggle, is because I one hand believe that the world is real, my problems are real, the one who has the problems are real, and then I'm asking who is this, while I believe that. The believing that has to be given up simultaneously. I have a feeling that that is what differs those who have realized effortlessly, from those who never realized or practiced for a long time. Lakshmana Swami had a strong conviction already in the non-existance of the ego, the world, when he went to see Ramana, and he knew what was left of that notion should be gotten rid of. Ramana just looked at him, and he inquired Who am I? and realized that he never was bound, there never was someone who was bound. <br><br>I went through the being excited about the biographies of these people, and I haven't given that up, why would I? But the truth is that I want to be the Truth, I'm in this for Realizing I'm not or never was bound, because I want to be free of dualities like suffering verses non-suffering. Being around non-people, maybe or maybe not Nome is one of them, helps, and is also threatening to my personhood notion that never even existed but pretends to exist, that's why I was so angry at SAT, when I'm never angry. Sorry, I once again, started on topic but got off topic, I'll try to be better about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-75304112534587287992010-11-17T08:58:16.902+05:302010-11-17T08:58:16.902+05:30Scott Fraundorf:Ravi, I can't disagree with yo...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>Ravi, I can't disagree with you from the point of being more advanced then you, or knowing better then you. But my experiences so far suggest that that is the practice is getting free I suppose from the conviction that there is duality. That's why I was mentioning the Song of Ribhu (Ribhu Gita) is that it helps establish me in a conviction where the mind is not so active in creating the false sense of duality. I would also disagree, not as in I'm right, your wrong, because I don't know, that duality is the natural state. In my own experience it is thinking about myself, gossiping about both myself and others, situations that creates the sense of duality. So my understanding is that nonduality and no mind are the same things. Now as long as I'm thinking that I'm an individual, there is not much point in pretending to others that I don't, or telling them not to, or saying "you are". when I still take myself to be a something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-15432976810563082032010-11-17T08:58:16.636+05:302010-11-17T08:58:16.636+05:30"arising out of setting aside IMAGINED BAGGAG..."arising out of setting aside IMAGINED BAGGAGE OF CARES AND WORRIES)", my understanding is that this is the practice continually not taking the baggage and cares and worries to be real. Though I'm not realized, I have not vanished as an individual, I can't really seriously take part in these discussions with words that mean a whole lot, but are just intellectual debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-66803106898976607412010-11-17T08:58:16.352+05:302010-11-17T08:58:16.352+05:30Scott Fraundorf:Go to Youtube for the Who am I? Do...Scott Fraundorf:<br><br>Go to Youtube for the Who am I? Documentary, or the pictures on this post, for the pic of Muruganar, is that what you were referring?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-21608987208060394432010-11-17T08:58:15.999+05:302010-11-17T08:58:15.999+05:30DavidYou say:'If that query is addressed to me...David<br><br>You say:<br><br>'If that query is addressed to me, you can find several photos of me scattered throughout my site (www.davidgodman.org)'<br><br>....................<br><br>Yuk.<br><br><br><br>Just joking.Bookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00859175677786233955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-11957490231706027432010-11-17T08:58:15.498+05:302010-11-17T08:58:15.498+05:30David,Thank you very much indeed for providing the...David,<br><br>Thank you very much indeed for providing the links of photos of Bhagawan, some published originally in LIFE magazine.<br><br>I have seen some of these photos earlier... but still, I was moved to tears when saw them again. Do not know why.Raghavannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-12827275365858757422009-03-13T14:14:00.000+05:302009-03-13T14:14:00.000+05:30David,Thank you very much indeed for providing the...David,<BR/><BR/>Thank you very much indeed for providing the links of photos of Bhagawan, some published originally in LIFE magazine.<BR/><BR/>I have seen some of these photos earlier... but still, I was moved to tears when saw them again. Do not know why.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-21520371163684064342009-01-22T18:50:00.000+05:302009-01-22T18:50:00.000+05:30Dear Anonymous Japanese man, :) In Self inqu...Dear Anonymous Japanese man,<BR/> :) <BR/><BR/>In Self inquiry what is needed is to "see" who is having this particular feeling.<BR/><BR/>"I feel pain".<BR/><BR/>Who is saying this within, look within. straight. Not intellectualize. Just ask the body: Are you feeling this? The body does not complain of pain. it is jada padartha , dead entity.<BR/>So , next ... it is the "I" of mind... but who has this thought ... from where is this arising ? Look, dont intelectualize ... just look ...<BR/>it leads to Consciousness.<BR/><BR/>Remain as Consciousness.<BR/><BR/>Love!<BR/>Silencesilence_speakshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01716759935902145448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-13293939603737900902008-12-31T06:49:00.000+05:302008-12-31T06:49:00.000+05:30Scott Fraundorf:Personally, I'd find it creepy for...Scott Fraundorf:<BR/><BR/>Personally, I'd find it creepy for anyone to be asking for anyone, even David godman to have to show their picture to the 'public', because that is not what this is about. But I wasn't sure what anonymous' query was about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-68026356729996855562008-12-30T11:10:00.000+05:302008-12-30T11:10:00.000+05:30DavidYou say:'If that query is addressed to me, yo...David<BR/><BR/>You say:<BR/><BR/>'If that query is addressed to me, you can find several photos of me scattered throughout my site (www.davidgodman.org)'<BR/><BR/>....................<BR/><BR/>Yuk.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Just joking.Bookwormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00859175677786233955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-50567071139149038562008-12-30T06:43:00.000+05:302008-12-30T06:43:00.000+05:30Anonymous said... As you well know a picture is...Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> As you well know a picture is worth a 1000 words. Any reason you do not share your picture with the public?<BR/> Thanks<BR/><BR/>If that query is addressed to me, you can find several photos of me scattered throughout my site (www.davidgodman.org)David Godmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.com