tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post557080595672421297..comments2024-03-20T13:24:11.422+05:30Comments on Arunachala and Ramana Maharshi: The authenticity of Bhagavans writings and dialoguesDavid Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-22061518990857782882010-11-17T09:07:17.789+05:302010-11-17T09:07:17.789+05:30Thank you for sharing your knowledge & thought...Thank you for sharing your knowledge & thoughts in this & the other postings.<br><br>You mentioned Sri BVN’s biography “Self-Realisation” & of course it contains the crucial narrative relating to Sri Bhagavan’s “death experience” in Madurai. Then, on this event, there is the stunning Mountain Path article in the 1981 April issue (which one suspects was written by you, since you were on the editorial board then), which gives new insights into the whole thing. So is there any additional authentic material available relating to this event ? Is there anything written by any of the old devotees in the old notebooks, who may have spoken to Sri Bhagavan about this ? Even just a stray noting here or there ? It seems that Sri Bhagavan Himself never edited or corrected any of the published versions of this event nor did He talk about it much.<br><br>In fact, I am hoping that you might have quizzed some of the old-timers on this event & would be really really grateful if you could tell anything further on the matter.arvindhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08360948041915924290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-47955262904340855392010-11-17T09:07:17.227+05:302010-11-17T09:07:17.227+05:30It was U.G. Krishnamurti who met Sri Ramana, not J...It was U.G. Krishnamurti who met Sri Ramana, not Jiddu Krishnamurti.Nandahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02255728667716566756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-25322883162628193362010-02-26T18:33:59.178+05:302010-02-26T18:33:59.178+05:30One problem I see with recording dialogues of Maha...One problem I see with recording dialogues of Maharshi from memory, is that in my own case, the ego is highly distorting of what happens, and what is perceived. And so if I was sitting with Maharshi and then went away and wrote what I heard, but I had not Realized the Self, there would be bound to be distortions. Because the words of the Master is not an intellectual topic, that I can just get the gist of. So in a way, this article almost seems to detract the credibility of Talks considerably. Because if Maharshi didn't even think that person was a fit translator, that means that he did not understand Maharshi's teachings, and the things he added were from his own flawed understanding. Whereas, even though Day by Day wasn't checked and edited the fact that he valued that person's translating, implies that that person's grasp was deeper. I really sense that, that Day by Day is a better text than Talks, glows more. From reading my own teacher's commentary on Self-Enquiry "Essence of Enquiry", I am convinced that it is perhaps a more important text then is given credit. The thing I found powerful about Self-Enquiry and previously it was one I had skipped over was that it does deal with topics besides the highest teachings. For an unripe aspirant such as myself reading it, it details the stages of 'progress' toward samadhi. While Maharshi's teachings of Who am I? are kind of it seems the ultimate Truth. If I didn't deal with the more gross egoic issues, I wouldn't stand a chance. And Self-Enquiry seems to comprehensively deal with some of the more basic issues and the necessity of Self-enquiry.Losing M. Mindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08593870441560584967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-26900797649351534192010-02-26T06:37:57.972+05:302010-02-26T06:37:57.972+05:30It was U.G. Krishnamurti who met Sri Ramana, not J...It was U.G. Krishnamurti who met Sri Ramana, not Jiddu Krishnamurti.Nandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02255728667716566756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-30816368121876498212008-09-11T09:28:00.000+05:302008-09-11T09:28:00.000+05:30anonymousJiddu Krishnamurti never came to see Bhag...anonymous<BR/><BR/>Jiddu Krishnamurti never came to see Bhagavan.David Godmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-74453675563568298132008-09-11T00:29:00.000+05:302008-09-11T00:29:00.000+05:30Scott Fraundorf: I have a question. On one page in...Scott Fraundorf: I have a question. On one page in Talks with Ramana Maharshi, it has a dialogue between Mr. Krishnamurti, an Andhra gentleman, and Bagavan. Do you know if that is Jiddu Krishnamurti? Some of the phrasing of the questions reminded me of him, especially asking about why someone would do tapas by holding their arm in the air for years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-61885847001912679672008-05-07T06:41:00.000+05:302008-05-07T06:41:00.000+05:30Thanks for your input on this.The narrative of Bha...Thanks for your input on this.<BR/><BR/>The narrative of Bhagavan's enlightenment that appears in Self Realisation was written by B. V. Narasimha Swami after he had gathered pieces of the jigsaw puzzle from Bhagavan over a period of several weeks. Bhagavan did not narrate the event in the way that Narasimha Swami told the story; he simply provided snippets of information that Narasimha Swami later assembled into what he thought was a coherent narrative. Narasimha Swami was honest enough to admit this. In a footnote to the first edition he said that he had written this account himself, deriving its contents from information gleaned from Bhagavan over a period of several weeks. In later editions this note disappeared, leaving new readers with the false impression that this was how Bhagavan described the event himself. As you are probably aware, this description has been accepted as the standard and authentic one; there is even a huge signboard in the New Hall adjacent to the Mother's Temple where the whole experience is displayed for visitors to read.<BR/><BR/>There is additional information on this event elsewhere. In the Telugu version of his realisation, recorded by Krishna Bhikshu in Ramana Leela, Bhagavan notes that he experienced the aham spurana just prior to the final experience. The grammar of that account is also quite interesting. By saying 'The body lay itself down on the floor, the limbs stretched themselves out,' and so on, he is making it clear that it is something that happened to him, rather than something that he did. Narasimha Swami couches the story in an 'I did this, then I did that' format. Just before he begins the crucial part of the story, he has Bhagavan say, 'I felt I had to solve the problem myself then and there'. The impersonal passive voice of Krishna Bhikhu's account sounds more reliable to me.<BR/><BR/>Then, quite remarkably, there is the complete absence of the phrase 'Who am I?' from Narasimha' Swami's account, even though this was a key element of the process. <BR/><BR/>When Bhagavan himself wrote about the experience in Arunachala Ashtakam, verse two, he wrote:<BR/><BR/>'Enquiring within "Who is the seer?" I saw the seer disappear, leaving That alone which stands for ever. No thought arose to say "I saw", how then could the thought arise to say "I did not see"?'<BR/><BR/>The absence of the specific act of enquiry and the aham sphurana experience that preceded the final liberation are major and significant omissions. <BR/><BR/>Yes, I was responsible for publishing the death experience account that appeared in the 1981 edition of The Mountain Path. I found it among Narasimha Swami's papers in the ashram archives. It seemed to be part of the original notes that were later tuned into the final published version. I will get a copy from the library and post it here since I think many people will be interested in reading it.David Godmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-13185277358352352232008-05-06T23:38:00.000+05:302008-05-06T23:38:00.000+05:30Thank you for sharing your knowledge & thoughts in...Thank you for sharing your knowledge & thoughts in this & the other postings.<BR/><BR/>You mentioned Sri BVN’s biography “Self-Realisation” & of course it contains the crucial narrative relating to Sri Bhagavan’s “death experience” in Madurai. Then, on this event, there is the stunning Mountain Path article in the 1981 April issue (which one suspects was written by you, since you were on the editorial board then), which gives new insights into the whole thing. So is there any additional authentic material available relating to this event ? Is there anything written by any of the old devotees in the old notebooks, who may have spoken to Sri Bhagavan about this ? Even just a stray noting here or there ? It seems that Sri Bhagavan Himself never edited or corrected any of the published versions of this event nor did He talk about it much.<BR/><BR/>In fact, I am hoping that you might have quizzed some of the old-timers on this event & would be really really grateful if you could tell anything further on the matter.Arvind Lalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08360948041915924290noreply@blogger.com