tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post2818923357313041063..comments2024-03-15T00:46:22.677+05:30Comments on Arunachala and Ramana Maharshi: The Power to EnlightenDavid Godmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10354181925332694222noreply@blogger.comBlogger406125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-61078634533927380862011-10-06T23:21:16.913+05:302011-10-06T23:21:16.913+05:30Another clever story by Rumi:
********************...Another clever story by Rumi:<br />*****************************<br /><br />There was a popular preacher very subtle in his exegesis,<br />A huge crow gathered always when he spoke.<br /> <br />Juhi wanted to hear so he put on a long mantle,a woman's chaddar<br />and went in the mosque on the less-crowded women's side, undetected.<br /> <br />Someone handed a note discreetly to the preacher,<br />asking whether hair in the private reqions causes difficulty in ritual prayers.<br /> <br />The preacher replied openly,<br />If your hair is long in the public region, then you are not properly prepared for prayer.<br />You may wish to use a razor to remove those long hairs.<br /> <br />The questioner continued : But to what length should they be cut to make my praying right?<br />The preacher:As long as the length does not exceed the width of a grain of barley,O Asker of many Questions!<br /> <br />At once Juhi whispered to the woman beside him, "Sister, see if the hair in my public region is as it should be, pleasing to God.<br />Feel with your hand whether it's right.<br /> <br />The woman put her hand between his legs and touched his penis.She screamed out.<br />The preacher said :My discourse must hve touched her heart.<br /> <br />"It's not so much," replied Juhi, "her heart that's impressed as her hand, but<br />O if wise man like you could so touch a heart!"Zeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15529540057558347821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-73913670569331154352011-03-04T00:40:50.614+05:302011-03-04T00:40:50.614+05:30David godman says: "One should also remember ...David godman says: "One should also remember that this third course (going into samadhi) is not an ‘option’ for a jnani who wants to process energies of this kind. The jnani’s body has a prarabdha that may or may not include going into samadhi; it is not something the jnani himself can choose to do or avoid doing"<br /><br />Isn't a jnani always in sahaja samadhi? Is there another kind of samadhi that a jnani goes in or out of. Or is this a reference to whether their body physically responds to their environment?Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02776726990495017415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-48442561889029538792010-11-17T09:03:33.076+05:302010-11-17T09:03:33.076+05:30As Ramana said, the true Guru is the Self, and the...As Ramana said, the true Guru is the Self, and the Self does not act, does not "transmit", and knows no separation at all between Guru and devotee. The problem with trying to figure these things out in relation to human beings - Gurus and their devotees - is that we tend to see ourselves and the Guru apart from the Self, and so introduce notions that are intrinsically false, even if seemingly inevitable and even obvious. <br><br>We identify with these human bodies, and we identify the Guru with the body of our human Guru. This is not wrong, in that so long as we are so humanly identified, as Ramana says, the Guru must also appear in human form, and we most relate to that human form as the Self alive. But that doesn't really tell us what is going on, and can even be misleading, in that we may still conceive of the Self as a great "Other". <br><br>If we could see this process of awakening in reality, we would likely see that nothing is going on at all. The human devotee and human Guru are dream appearances, whereas enlightenment means waking up from the dream. How can that process be part of the dream itself? It can't. The real process doesn't have anything to do with what we see or think is going on in the dream, or even with our speculations about it. It's one more thing to let go of. <br><br>This I think is why Ramana recommended we simply be still and do nothing. Awakening has nothing to do with what we do in the dream, or even how we relate to the Guru who appears in the dream. He is telling us to simply stop dreaming, stop engaging in the dream, and stop perpetuating the dream. He gives us nothing that we don't already have. He simply points us to the Self that always stands in the very place we are moving out from. The peace of the Self is something we relinquish in order to seek objects - even the object the Guru's human body represents. It is regained the instant we cease that game and stand still. The Guru does nothing in the process, and that is why it works.Broken Yogihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02257804418740860542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-46836182193692834422010-11-17T09:03:32.687+05:302010-11-17T09:03:32.687+05:30Broken Yogi,What you have mentioned is quite LOGIC...Broken Yogi,<br>What you have mentioned is quite LOGICAL and what is more has the backing of Great Gnanis.<br>Yet,Equally Great Gnanis have maintained a diametrically opposite position(ULTIMATELY WE TAKE WHAT WE WANT!We come back to S.!)<br>I will give you a classic example.Here is Sri Ramakrishna Saying-"Mother ,Do not Give me BrahmaGnana!I Spit on BrahmaGnana!"-Sri Ramakrishna definitely knows what he is talking and this is defnitely not the raving of a delirium patient!<br><br>Again he says-"Why should I play only ONE NOTE-NEE-I want to play all the seven notes in the Octave!"<br><br>What is this 'I' he is referring to?Since he is referring to this 'I',does it imply that he is not a Gnani?(No Gnani has said anything to the contrary).<br><br>Again DAVID was mentioning that Gnani have no Sankalpa-These are assumptions.<br>1.Why did Sri Bhagavan decide not to eat one day and what was the result?(He ended up eating more than his usual Quota!)<br><br>2.Sri Ramakrishna often had to do a SANKALPA to DRINK water.His MIND was always Soaring to the Realm of the 6th Gnana Bhoomika-To stop it ,he had to GENERATE this Desire for DRINKING-This brought him back to the 5Th Gnana Bhoomika where he could recognize Others(as his self)and yet talk to them.HE NEVER DRANK THE WATER!It was just to bring the Mind down to the consciousness of the External World!<br><br>More of these later and with exact links in the Gospel!<br>I am also trying to LAY MY HANDS ON THE YOGA VASISHTA WHICH COVERS THE SAPTABHOOMIKA!(FOR ME SRI RAMAKRISHNA'S STATEMENT IS GOOD ENOUGH BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT I CANNOT PUT IT ACROSS TO YOU.)<br><br>The 5th Gnana Bhoomika is Called 'Asam Shakti' and Great souls like The Buddha,Sri Bhagavan,Adi Sankara,Vivekananda had operated from this plane.(Even here there is a big variety!).They come down from the 6th plane to this level and consequently a Tremendous Liberating Energy is unleashed!(Pls note that this list is not exhaustive!Imagine people trying to figure out whether their MASTER or Guru figures in this ELITE list!What confusion it may create!Can we understand why BHAGAVAN was DIPLOMATIC(borrowed from David)on this and just said that Gnani belongs to Plane no.4!)<br><br>This is just to say that this topic is worth a consideration.<br><br>As I have been repeatedly stating Every Thesis has an equally weighty Antithesis!<br><br>All that can be said is 'BRAHMAN ALONE IS!".Any further qualifications,additions,subtractions is opn for different standpoints!<br><br>SO THERE is a variety here!<br><br>Salutations!Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-41541170620889118242010-11-17T09:03:29.364+05:302010-11-17T09:03:29.364+05:30S,"broken yogi said 'How can that process...S,<br><br>"broken yogi said 'How can that process be part of the dream itself? It can't' - i dream and i am awake, but i have never been able to observe the transition from one state to the other because either am sleeping & dreaming or am in the waking state; to say 'it can't' obviously requires you to be in a state from which you could 'watch' these two states...is this what people call 'turiya'?"<br><br>I should have addressed this. Keep in mind that I am using dream/awakening as a metaphor, not a literalism. What I have in mind is this: if someone is trying to wake you up from a deep sleep, maybe they shake you, make a loud noise, pour water on your face, etc. But you, still sleeping, do not see any of this. Instead, you incorporate these sensations in your dream. You perhaps dream that an earthquake is happening, then an explosion, then a flood. You interpret these efforts to awaken you to something happening inside your dream, when in reality they are being generated from outside the dream, and you have just interpreted them from the perspective of the dream because you don't know of any other kind. <br><br>So when we encounter the Guru and experience his awakening "pushes", perhaps we are simply incorporating the real process, which is occurring outside our dream, into the dream itself. So we dream of the human Guru, and his teachings, and his glance and touch and all his various siddhis and graces, and imagine that this is what is going on, when in fact something is happening outside the dream, shaking and prodding our real body to wake up, not the dream body we think we are while we dream. We have simply tried to make the process into something we can understand within the dream, which is really our way of prolonging the dream rather than allowing it to wake us up. Who is gracing us with all these teachings and blessing? It is not the one we see in the dream. It is the One who stands in the waking world and prods us to wake up with Him, to see Him in the world of reality, not the world of our dreams. <br><br>As for Turiya, yes, this is part of the process, but even in turiya we are still observing the dream. We are not actually fully awake. It is a half-way state that still does not know who the Witness is. A distinction remains that is real in the dream only, but not real in waking. <br><br>Also, I appreciate your efforts to instill humility in us all. I cannot say that my convictions are true, I can only say that I speak from my convictions. To me, that is the only way to confront and go beyond them. It is necessary to know what we are convinced of, and speak from that point of view with full conviction, if we are to be moved beyond the mind. Otherwise we never know what it is we have to transcend in ourselves. I am sure I am convinced of many things that are utterly false, I just don't know which are which. Maybe you can help point them out for me?Broken Yogihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02257804418740860542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-59510514134363485922010-11-17T09:03:27.511+05:302010-11-17T09:03:27.511+05:30Friends,Here is more from The Gospel of Sri Ramakr...Friends,<br>Here is more from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:<br>""When the lamp is lighted the moths come in swarms. They don't have to be invited. In the same way, the preacher who has a commission from God need not invite people to hear him. He doesn't have to announce the time of his lectures. He possesses such irresistible attraction that people come to him of their own accord. People of all classes, even kings and aristocrats, gather around him. They say to him: 'Revered sir, what can we offer you? Here are mangoes, sweets, money, shawls, and other things. What will you be pleased to accept?' In that case I say to them: 'Go away. I don't care, for these. I don't want anything.'<br> "Does the magnet say to the iron, 'Come near me?' That is not necessary. Because of the attraction of the magnet, the iron rushes to it.<br>"Such a preacher may not be a scholarly person, but don't conclude from that that he has any lack of wisdom. Does book-learning make one wise? He who has a commission from God never runs short of wisdom. That wisdom comes from God; it is inexhaustible. At Kamarpukur I have seen people measuring grain. It lies in a heap. One man keeps pushing grain from the heap toward another man, who weighs it on a scales. So the man who weighs doesn't run short of grain. It is the same with the preacher who has received a commission from God. As he teaches people, the Divine Mother Herself supplies him with fresh knowledge from behind. That knowledge never comes to an end.<br> Can a preacher ever lack knowledge if but once he is favoured with a benign glance from the Divine Mother? " Page 466,Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.<br><br>2." It was three or four o'clock in the afternoon. M. found Sri Ramakrishna seated on the couch in an abstracted mood. After some time he heard him talking to the Divine Mother. The Master said, "O Mother, why hast Thou given him only a particle?" Remaining silent a few moments, he added: "I understand it, Mother. That little bit will be enough for him and will serve Thy purpose. That little bit will enable him to teach people."-page 270,gospel of sri ramakrishna(M Later wrote the Gospel and most of the illustrious monks as well as lay devotees were disciples of 'M'.For further info on M,I suggest that you may read -1.A Search in Secret India -by Dr Paul Brunton and 2.Autobiography of a yogi-Paramahansa Yogananda).<br><br>Salutations!Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-13888073477423333932010-11-17T09:03:26.606+05:302010-11-17T09:03:26.606+05:30Friends,Sri Aurobindo on the Guru:"The Teache...Friends,<br>Sri Aurobindo on the Guru:<br>"The Teacher of the integral Yoga will follow as far as he may the method of the Teacher within us. He will lead the disciple through the nature of the disciple. Teaching, example, influence, -- these are the three instruments of the Guru. But the wise Teacher will not seek to impose himself or his opinions on the passive acceptance of the receptive mind; he will throw in only what is productive and sure as a seed which will grow under the divine fostering within. He will seek to awaken much more than to instruct; he will aim at the growth of the faculties and the experiences by a natural process and free expansion. He will give a method as an aid, as a utilisable device, not as an imperative formula or a fixed routine. And he will be on his guard against any turning of the means into a limitation, against the mechanising of process. His whole business is to awaken the divine light and set working the divine force of which he himself is only a means and an aid, a body or a channel. <br> The example is more powerful than the instruction; but it is not the example of the outward acts nor that of the personal character, which is of most importance. These have their place and their utility; but what will most stimulate aspiration in others is the central fact of the divine realisation within him governing his whole life and inner state and all his activities. This is the universal and essential element; the rest belongs to individual person and circumstance. It is this dynamic realisation that the Sadhaka must feel and reproduce in himself according to his own nature; he need not strive after an imitation from outside which may well be sterilising rather than productive of right and natural fruits. <br> Influence is more important than example. Influence is not the outward authority of the Teacher over his disciple, but the power of his contact, of his presence, of the nearness of his soul to the soul of another, infusing into it, even though in silence, that which he himself is and possesses. This is the supreme sign of the Master. For the greatest Master is much less a Teacher than a Presence pouring the divine consciousness and its constituting light and power and purity and bliss into all who are receptive around him. <br> And it shall also be a sign of the teacher of the integral Yoga that he does not arrogate to himself Guruhood in a humanly vain and self-exalting spirit. His work, if he has one, is a trust from above, he himself a channel, a vessel or a representative. He is a man helping his brothers, a child leading children, a Light kindling other lights, an awakened Soul awakening souls, at highest a Power or Presence of the Divine calling to him other powers of the Divine."-Synthesis of Yoga-Sri AurobindoRavihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-37333726173770402092010-11-17T09:03:25.261+05:302010-11-17T09:03:25.261+05:30Ravi,"I do not believe that the Gnani will lo...Ravi,<br><br>"I do not believe that the Gnani will lose all distictions;I understand that he will not see any difference.No one ceases to be a HUMAN with its associated body mind complex,and if the gnani as long as the gnani has to EAT and TAKE CARE of this complex ,he HAS THE DISTINCTION.I understand that only in NIRVIKALPA SAMADHI all these things are obliterated."<br><br>This is an interesting argument that I've gone back and forth with myself. My sense of it is that the jnani loses all distinctions between Self and other, between Self and body, Self and mind, Self and devotee, etc. Thus, there is no distinction in reality between anyone and anything. This is not the same as the distinctions between "things". So there is still the capacity to distinguish between one's foot and one's hand, or between one's body and someone else's body, because these are just conventions. Yet neither is distinct from the Self, and are seen in the Self as one Being with many forms and "faces". <br><br>This is the difference between samadhis of absorbtion and "sahaj" samadhi. In samadhis of absorption, nothing is experienced but the Self. Yet when objects arise once more, they are seen as distinct from the Self. In Sahaj, there are no objects seen at all. Instead, there is only the Self, and what formerly were experienced as objects are now experienced as the Self. This does not mean that the functional forms disappear into a soup, and one cannot walk down the street or chew gum. It simply means that one does not see any distinction between the street and the Self, or gum and the Self, and in that sense, there is no true distinction between the street and the gum. The distinctions are purely functional and obviously meaningless in reality, and have no power to impinge upon self-realization, regardless of how functionally active the jnani may appear to be.Broken Yogihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02257804418740860542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-35120371598541755932010-11-17T09:03:25.000+05:302010-11-17T09:03:25.000+05:30S,That business about the Self "choosing"...S,<br><br>That business about the Self "choosing" who will realize the Self always seemed mysterious to me also after I first read about it in Papaji's talks. Something about it seemed right, though, even if I can't say quite what it is. After I read Papaji talking about this, my reaction was to pray to the Self, "Well, then choose me!" Which was kind of a funny prayer, but it also felt right. In answer, I could feel the Self saying right back to me, "If that's what you want, then choose Me!" So it's kind of a mirrored thing, the point being that on both sides there must be a choice. The Self must choose us, and we must choose the Self. Perhaps these are really the same thing, just looked upon from two different angles. So if we want the Self to choose us, we must choose the Self. By choosing the Self, the Self is choosing us. The important point being that we must actively choose the Self, rather than just passively wait for the Self to choose us.<br><br>This is very much like the issue of how one acquires the desire for liberation itself. We have to choose to desire liberation, not merely have it handed to us. And yet, the first sign of Grace is that we have the desire for liberation at all! Either way you look at it, Grace comes first.Broken Yogihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02257804418740860542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-41272969534936527632010-11-17T09:03:00.187+05:302010-11-17T09:03:00.187+05:30salutations to all:it was wonderful to go through ...salutations to all:<br>it was wonderful to go through the several beautiful opinions that have been finding expression in the blog...a very nice platform for people to share in the spirit <br>of a conversation...<br>a request: some of you write as if you are preparing a textbook! if possible, please write in simple sentences...that could make our talk 'simple & direct'<br><br>a few times, i did feel like writing something or the other but then remembered the powerful 'first realize, then talk'... please treat my occasional writings as my limitations...<br><br>ravi, thank you for the tons of <br>information that you so generously <br>offer...but as far as your latest <br>discussion wth arvind goes, guess you should give 'it' to arvind... it may not be fair to treat the kathamrita to be more authoritative than the lilaprasanga...<br>i remember vivekananda mentioning that on many an occasion, after making sure that there are no householders in the vicinity, <br>thakur used to assemble the few bright young teenagers and speak in glowing terms of the subtleties of renunciation in the light of advaita vedanta...<br>it is quite possible that saradananda attended many such sessions to which M. was not privy to...if you subscribe to 'authority', then it would be appropriate to consider <br>saradananda's work to have nearly the same legitimacy as that of M.'s...after all, we are talking about two exemplary direct disciples of thakur...<br>of course, both of you are welcome to my 'camp'...i don't care much about any authority :-)<br><br>arvind and (b) yogi: read your delightful summaries/views on advaita as a school of thought... both of you seem to have a strong leaning towards proving or disproving using the tools of 'logic'...assuming that you were talking about the 'system' and <br>not the 'state' & are also quite open to suggestions, would request you to spare some time going through the compelling objections raised by some of the brilliant <br>thinkers of the madhva school... this could plausibly offer an element of robustness to some of your very interesting dreamy speculations (not that am a dvaitin) :-)<br>even a little careful study would reveal that some of the critical tenets of the advaita school, logically speaking, rest on fragile foundations...just some unsolicited food for thought :-)<br><br>am swayed by neither, though am inclined to the advaitic view...my reasoning is a little different: (very briefly) as a school of thought, advaita perhaps comes closest to the purposelessness of creation...life on earth may be no more than a freak accident of evolution...to trace any of these <br>things to 'god' is perhaps just a <br>concoction of the security-seeking mind, whose very attribute is to offer one reason or the other for everything (sort of the mind abhorring a vacuum)... <br><br>aren't these just another kind of 'speculations'? of course yes, but with a difference...these are at least based on a sincere scientific quest unlike the <br>delusions of organized religion...<br>if you value honesty as a necessary pre-requisite, in my opinion, to say 'i don't know' is lot more honest than the probable 'fiction' of god's will :-)S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-70403539954810488192010-11-17T09:02:57.781+05:302010-11-17T09:02:57.781+05:30maRai~ndhida mUdiya mAya iruLaiaRam pAvam ennum ar...maRai~ndhida mUdiya mAya iruLai<br>aRam pAvam ennum aru~nggayitRAl katti<br>puRam thOl pOrththu e~nggum puzhu azhukku mUdi,<br>malam sOrum onbadhu vAyil kudilai<br>mala~nggap pulan ai~ndhum va~njjanaiyaic ceyya, <br>vila~nggu manaththAl, vimalA unakku<br>kala~ndha anbAgik kasi~ndhu uL urugum<br>~nalam thAn ilAdha siRiyERku ~nalgi<br>~nilam thanmEl va~ndhu aruLi ~nILkazhalgaL kAtti,<br>~nAyiR kadaiyAyk kida~ndha adiyERkuth <br>thAyiR ciRa~ndha thayA Ana thaththuvanE<br><br>--------------------------------------<br>i am hidden by the darkness of mAya (ignorance) caused by my strong karma. i am bound tightly by the rope of good and evil. i am enveloped on the outside by skin that covers all the filth and worms inside my body. i am stuck in this hut of nine entrances that keeps leaking waste. these five senses are conspiring against me. i am a dog-like lowly person with an animal-like mind that had no deep love for you. o the one without blemish! yet, you came on this earth and blessed me by revealing your holy feet. o the embodiment of all knowledge, you showed a greater love than a mother would on this lowly person who is inferior even to a dog...<br>(Tiruvaasagam; Sivapuranam Lines 51-60)<br>those of you who are inclined to surrender would love these lines... despite my agnosticism (which is not the same as atheism), am mesmerised by these lines :-)S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-1902382573912560552010-11-17T09:02:57.221+05:302010-11-17T09:02:57.221+05:30Nonduel,Kindly read what sri bhagavan had to say t...Nonduel,<br>Kindly read what sri bhagavan had to say that i have mentioned in that post-"Whether this doubt(regarding the world) is for the Gnani or Agnani!if it the Gnani,he will know for sure!If it is for the Agnani,let him find the Truth of his self!"<br>No amount of reasoning or citing of authority will really help.<br>Actually for me(Ego or otherwise)the world exists now!This is the point that I have made in that post.As long as 'I' exist,the world exists.If the 'I' ceases then any way debate is not required!This is Bhagavan's wise counsel.Just see how many iterations we are going through ,going exactly through the same gate in and out!<br><br>Salutations!Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-54807563585229549162010-11-17T09:02:53.423+05:302010-11-17T09:02:53.423+05:30Friends,This another wonderful papa Ramdas story!H...Friends,<br>This another wonderful papa Ramdas story!How papa had a simple way of clearing the doubts(very much like Bhagavan):<br>"Many people met with Papa Ramadas. Once a man asked him, “You are still chanting the Mantra, ‘Sri Ram Jaya Ram Jaya Jaya Ram’. Have you seen Bhagavaan? If you have, then where is the need for continuing to do the japa?” Papa Ramadas gave a wonderful answer, which I like very much. It was a place where a river was mingling with the sea. Papa Ramadas asked him, “Has this river mingled with the sea?” <br>The man said, “Yes!” <br>Papa Ramadas, “Well! Is the river still flowing?” <br>The man, “Yes. It is still flowing.” <br>Papa Ramada, “You say that the river is flowing but also say that it has mingled with the sea. How is it possible?” <br>What a wonderful reply to the question put forth? Papa Ramadas explained his state with an apt illustration. "<br><br>Salutations!Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-91212449757044722822010-11-17T09:02:53.257+05:302010-11-17T09:02:53.257+05:30salutations to all:thanks to all for their wonderf...salutations to all:<br>thanks to all for their wonderful comments... arvind, laughed when you spoke about 'my' reservations against one of the advaitic view... not at all...as i said earlier, these are the dvaitin's objections, not mine (what do i know? am incompetent to find flaws either in dvaita or advaita)...as systems of thought, they have their strengths & weaknesses, pros & cons, so to say<br> <br>[regarding your comment on that there are only a handful who have known to transmute this complex theory into simple devotion, would simply say that there 'could' be many of whom we may not be aware; likewise on your comment on bnk sharma, my answer is again 'we can't say'...even otherwise, he has never claimed to be a guru or anything like that...in my opinion, he is a great scholar and whose works demonstrate scientific rigor and intellectual honesty... as a professor, he deserves our highest respect & humble salutations...thats all]<br><br>though jayatirtha offers his own reasonable clarifications on the abhinavAnyathA-khyAti being quite different from both the nyAyA doctrine of anyathA-khyAti and the buddhistic concept of asat-khyAti, yet wouldn't want to stretch it further because let this blog be free of philosophical quibbles & metaphysical jargon...<br>the only reason i mentioned this as an example was not to claim the superiority of one over the other; rather to humbly suggest that those of you who feel inclined (intellectually) to the advaitic view may do justice if you could pause and reflect on the dvaitin's objections as well, which by themselves quite often possess an undeniable logical validity...<br><br>notwithstanding my own leanings towards kevalAdvaita (in a way, it's idealism that attracts me to husserl's phenomenology or darwin's evolution or hofstadter's strange loop) :-)<br>so, is the world real or unreal? does the self alone exist? are brahman and jiva one and the same or eternally different? is there any theory that explains better than the other? etc etc etc...<br>my answer to all such questions: <b>i don't know</b><br><br>what i do know is this: here is a man who from his own experience lived and taught freedom...here is a man whom we call bhagavan who said, just like the great buddha (in my words), 'i have known the truth of existence; and if you wish to learn, i can tell you a method to realize the same for yourself; try it out and know for yourself whether it works or not'<br>this appeals to me (there are many things that bhagavan says which i neither accept nor reject, for 'i don't know')...hence, let me try it out (vichara) and discover the truth for myself :-)<br>(whenever i laugh, i insert a smiley...guess, infected by M.'s kathamrita)S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-47200595867145415282010-11-17T09:02:52.945+05:302010-11-17T09:02:52.945+05:30S.Thanks for your comments. I enjoyed reading all ...S.<br><br>Thanks for your comments. I enjoyed reading all your remarks. I agree with you about what you have mentioned about the “handful known to have transmuted this complex theory” and about Prof. Sarma. I was out of line there in my comment and apologize for the same. I actually picked up on Dr. Sarma from Swami Tapasyananda’s [of Sri RK math, Chennai] criticism of his take on certain aspects of Sri Madhva’s teachings.<br><br>I think what you have mentioned with respect to Sri Bhagavan towards the end is enough to take you very very far. For I believe that Vichara alone is enough. Slowly but surely it adds on all that will be required for a person – be it devotion, or dharma, or good habits or whatever.<br><br>Best wishesarvindhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08360948041915924290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-62943740766175731562010-11-17T09:02:52.211+05:302010-11-17T09:02:52.211+05:30Besides:** Ignorance **Perhaps it is interesting f...Besides:<br><br>** Ignorance **<br><br>Perhaps it is interesting for some here to know that in Germany we had a philosopher (Nicholas of Kues (1401 – August 11, 1464) writing a treatment called "Of Learned Ignorance" (De docta ignorantia).<br><br>His famous statement (I try to translate it): "The Greatest is where there exist nothing being greater beyond it."<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_of_Kues" rel="nofollow">Nicolaus of Cues</a>Clemens Vargas Ramoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07193114321240935018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-45660546714290775442010-11-17T09:02:51.757+05:302010-11-17T09:02:51.757+05:30Dear Avind,Quote:"""Iswara the pers...Dear Avind,<br><br>Quote:<br><br>"""Iswara the personal God, the supreme creator of the universe really does exist. But this is only true from the relative standpoint of those who have not realised the truth, those people who believe in the reality of individual souls."""<br><br>What is the "effect", if any, on one who has the relative knowledge, but hasn't Self-Realised. <br><br>On Prarabdha, Iswara, on rebirth...nonduelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02413345045343092614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-47062869197161849982010-11-17T09:02:50.630+05:302010-11-17T09:02:50.630+05:30Dear Nonduel,I truly appreciate your Earnestness i...Dear Nonduel,<br>I truly appreciate your Earnestness in knowing about these things.As For myself,I just focus on what I should be doing now.My master is emphatic that at each and every moment-one can choose to live by choice or submit to Chance.One may Take the way of Preyas-The Way of comfort or choose the way of Sreyas-The way of Righteousness.By choosing the way of Sreyas,One can annul all the Prarabda IMPRINTS.This is just like loosening all the knots ,at the same time taking care not to tie oneself with fresh ones.This is as per the Katha Upanishad.<br><br>If you want to the info on the Slide Projector type of anology-Paramahansa Yogananda Has covered in great Detail in his Autobiography of a Yogi.One whole chapter id dedicated to this topic.<br><br>Please download it from this site:<br>www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/new2/Yogananda-AutobiographyOfAYogi-ayogi.pdf <br><br>Wishing you the Very Best!<br><br>Salutations!Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-54811690388818459922010-11-17T09:02:49.225+05:302010-11-17T09:02:49.225+05:30Hi folks,I would like to draw attention to the old...Hi folks,<br><br>I would like to draw attention to the old “I [the Self] choose whom I choose” discussion we had up this thread. In my post I had mentioned how great it would be to find out whether Sri Bhagavan’s ever commented on this.<br><br>I was quite stunned when I chanced ( ! ) upon this very thing in the Mountain Path 1967, Pg 99, in “Bhagavan Sri Ramana on Destiny”. I had been just flipping thro’ that issue searching for something else.<br><br><b>Question: The Upanisads say, I am told, that he alone knows the Atman whom the Atman chooses. Why should the Atman choose at all ? If it chooses, why some particular person ?<br> <br>Answer: When the sun rises, some buds blossom, not all. Do you blame the sun for that ? At the same time, the bud cannot blossom of itself; it requires the sunlight to enable it to do so.</b><br><br>It made my day.<br><br>best wishesarvindhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08360948041915924290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-63026630511746133882010-11-17T09:02:49.064+05:302010-11-17T09:02:49.064+05:30Arvind,Thanks very much!Yes,there are different vi...Arvind,<br>Thanks very much!Yes,there are different views on these matters.What My master(not citing as an authority)states is like this-Even Rebirth is defined by him very differently!A Man's Rebirth is his progeny!It is not that Ram will be reborn as Shyam!At any given point of time-seven generations of Karma are present with oneself!At the time of Death,the children,Grandchildren, and the Life partner with whom the LIFELINKS of the deceased were established,have to absorb the Karma,to a great degree.IT IS IMPORTANT TO SEE THAT NO CONCEPTION takes place in the Family at this point of time as it might result in the Karma to be transferred prematurely to the infant!Whatever is passed on this way is worked out by the members of the family.The rest of the Karmic imprints not absorbed by the family stay with the disembodied soul and are worked out in the astral planes.THIS IS THE REASON BEHIND THE VARIOUS RITUALS at the time of death.<br><br>Master has given talk on 'What happens after Death?'-a Few times.I have not been interested in this sort of topic,so did not even attend once!<br>I know that this is totally on a new footing.Master cites Adi Sankara as having mentioned a similiar thing somewhere.He also says that in Yaksha Prasna-Yudhishtra answers that a man's Rebirth is his Progeny.<br><br>I am just citing this to say that there are different points of view.<br><br>namaskar!Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-71130944878767729892010-11-17T09:02:48.271+05:302010-11-17T09:02:48.271+05:30salutations to all:by the way, didn't hear fro...salutations to all:<br>by the way, didn't hear from anyone on my earlier query<br><br>is there any among you who is located at hyderabad or chennai or bangalore? <br><br>i infer that jupes, clemens, nonduel, brother yogi (not broken) etc are writing from abroad... ravi, arvind, murali etc.: what about you folks?<br><br>sorry if i haven't specifically mentioned anyone by name...it will be a blessing to meet any of you and take the dust of your feet :-)S.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-45077444228004582632010-11-17T09:02:47.516+05:302010-11-17T09:02:47.516+05:30Ramos,"Then I understand you right that i sho...Ramos,<br>"Then I understand you right that i should look for further information in "Self-Realization Life & Teachings Sri Ramana Maharshi"? "<br>I think this is available as a pdf download in ramanasharamam website.Please do check out.This is one of the Books that I have read after reading Paul Brunton's A search in Secret India and I found it very helpful-a very rounded presentation of the major events in Bhagavan's life upto the point it was published.<br><br>Namaskar!Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-18168406528063419552010-11-17T09:02:47.332+05:302010-11-17T09:02:47.332+05:30... I think this is available as a pdf download in...<i>... I think this is available as a pdf download in ramanasharamam website. ...</i><br><br>Unfortunately not. There are now some books not longer available for download.Clemens Vargas Ramoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07193114321240935018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-10297511399725321182010-11-17T09:02:46.296+05:302010-11-17T09:02:46.296+05:30I didn't know my last subject had been so disc...I didn't know my last subject had been so discussed here. Here is what I think about prarabdha.<br><br>Parabdha is there as long as one believes HE IS THE DOER.nonduelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02413345045343092614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3961358105214008284.post-66209515086783362152010-11-17T09:02:45.824+05:302010-11-17T09:02:45.824+05:30AVANADIMY,"If a person somehow gets to know o...AVANADIMY,<br>"If a person somehow gets to know of a Sadguru like Sri. Ramana Bhagavan and ALSO gets interested in His/Her teaching essentially to "turn inwards", it is only because of their sat-vaasanai which accrued by some sat-saadhanaa performed earlier. <br><br>Sat-vaasanai is the vehicle that Grace operates through."<br><br>Thanks for your beautiful post.<br><br>Namaskar!Ravihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14875076137584328729noreply@blogger.com