Saturday, September 22, 2012

Open Thread

Ravi just informed me by email that the previous Open Thread, started last year, had reached 5,000 comments, and that it was refusing to take any more. 

Please continue all your discussions here.

2,142 comments:

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Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

138. Substantiation, therefore means 'being known' according to the doctrine in which
the knower, knowing, and the known are admitted. In the case of both the witness and the
witnessed it denotes 'being known.' and not 'endowed with existence'.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

139. If it be assumed that the distinctness of the agent, the object etc., is what is
substantiation (we say that) there can be distinctness or indistinctness with respect to
the other that is, the witness, only but not the agent.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri -Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

140. There is no distinction of a jar to a blind man. It is nothing more than the jar
being known. If, however, they want to predicate distinctness of the agent, etc., they
must admit that knowingness belongs to the Self.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

141. Please tell us what benefit you derive by holding that knowledge depends on other things.
If it is contended that dependence of knowledge on the knower is desirable, we reply that the
knower also according to us, is nothing but Knowledge.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

142. The intellect itself, though indivisible, is looked upon by deluded people as consisting
of the divisions of the knower, knowing and the known.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

143. Actions, agents etc., consist, according to us, (idealists) of knowledge only.

(Reply): You must accept an agent of this knowledge. If you admit its existence and
destruction every moment.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

144. Your conclusion is given up if you do not admit any quality belonging to knowledge.
(Objection).

The qualities of existence etc., are nothing but negation of their non existnece and so on.
(Reply).

Ever then knowledge cannot be liable to destruction (every moment) as it is known by itself
according to you.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II- Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

145. Destruction has for its ultimate limit something which is self existent. You say that
destruction is the negation of non destruction. A cow is defined according to you as the
non existence of a non cow. It cannot be the definition of a cow.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

146. Things denoted by the word 'momentary' are also, according to you, only the negation of
things that are non momentary. (You have, therefore, to accept a permanent real identity.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

147. (The Idealists). As there cannot be any difference in non existence, differences are due
to names only. (Reply). Please, tell me how there can be manyness in one indivisible non
existence due only to different names.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

148. How can the negation of a non cow, denote a cow if by the word negation, the negation of
different things is meant? Again, no negation distinguishes one thing from another, nor can
special properties do it.

***

Neel said...

For the Bookworms:

Duke Hwan and the Wheelwright

Duke Hwan of Khi, first in his dynasty,
sat under his canopy reading his philosophy.
And Phien the wheelwright was out in the yard
making a wheel.

Phien laid aside hammer and chisel,
climbed the steps
and said to duke Hwan,
“May I ask you, Lord,
what is this you are reading?”

Said the duke: “The experts, the authorities.”
Phien asked: “Alive or dead?”
The duke said: “Dead, a long time.”
“Then,” said the wheelwright,
“you are only reading the dirt they left behind.”

The duke replied, “What do you know about it?
You are only a wheelwright.
You had better give me a good explanation
or else you must die.”

The wheelwright said,
“Let us look at the affair from my point of view.
When I make wheels, if i go easy they fall apart,
and if I am too rough they don’t fit.
But if I am neither too easy nor too violent
they come out right,
and the work is what I want it to be.

“You cannot put this in words,
you just have to know how it is.
I cannot even tell my own son exactly how it is done,
and my own son cannot learn it from me.
Se here I am, seventy years old, still making wheels!

The men of old took all they really knew
with them to the grave.
And so, Lord, what you are reading there
is only the dirt they left behind them.”

http://www.osholeela.com/poetry/chuangtzu/

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II- Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

149. Just as names, species, etc., do not qualify Knowledge according to you, as it has no
special properties. (so, the negation of a now cow, hornlessness etc., do not qualify a cow.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

150. As you have to accept sense perception and inference in everyday life, you have to admit
difference; for they consist of actions, agents and so on.

***

Chakri said...

Limited Role of a Guru:
***********************

https://www.ishafoundation.org/news/columns/kc/KC-May2009.pdf

Kavita Chhibber
http://www.kavitachhibber.com/main/main.jsp?id=sadhguru-May2009[5/23/2009 4:33:06 AM]
Untie Those Knots.
By Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev
A
Kavita Media
Presentation. Please email comments
here
.
You can also contact Kavita with your feedback, by dialing 678-720-1260. Selected comments
will be broadcast on our webcast
Most people don’t know how to handle their life here. Do you see this in
the world? Why are they pursuing life after death? What is the point?
Anything that is not in your experience, there is no way to understand and
analyze. This needs to be extremely clear to every individual. People are
always trying to understand life after death. You cannot understand
anything which is in a different dimension than you are right now. The
whole effort is to move to a different dimension. If that needs to happen, first you must stop
understanding. You have to see that you cannot understand, and that there is no need to understand. It
is the experience which takes you out of this dimension.
If you try to understand a flower, what will you understand? In your attempt to understand it, maybe you
will pull it apart petal by petal. But you will understand nothing. Maybe you will know the chemistry of it.
Maybe you will analyze everything and then you will conclude everything is proton, neutron, and electron.
All that is fine, but you will not know anything about the flower.
Now people are trying to deliver spirituality as an understanding. Understanding is needed about how you
are bound, that’s all. You cannot understand the other dimension. See, people are always talking about
how God is, how heaven is. This will not lead you anywhere except to hallucinations. The only thing that
you need to understand is how you are bound to your limitations. If you understand this and free yourself
from those bondages, where you have to go you will anyway go.
If I talk about the sky, it’s no use. What are the ropes which are tying you down to the earth? That is all
that matters. Your business is with the ropes that are tying you down, not with the sky. If you untie these
ropes, you will anyway reach the sky. When you reach there, only then you will know what the sky is. Till
then, whatever you think about it, whatever understanding, whatever analysis you make, is coming from
the limited dimension of where you are right now.
There is no way to understand that which is beyond your present level of experience. So the Guru’s work
is to help you to untie the knots with which you are binding yourself, and to show you where the knots
are. And if you untie them and you’re ready, you are on the edge; maybe just with one knot left, then he
can push you. If he pushes you when you have ten ropes tied down then it will damage you. He can push
you only when everything is broken and just one single thread is hanging. Then he can push you. He can
afford to push you because you will not break, only the thread will break. With Yoga, you can mature the
body, mature the mind, and mature the energies so that slowly, these bondages and ropes that we are
tying around us gradually are broken down. A moment comes when all you need is a Whoo! You will go

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

151. Entities qualifying knowledge such as, jars, blue, yellow, etc., and also the knower
by which these are known must be accepted. (Here ends the refutation of the Idealists
begun in verse 141.)

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

152. Just as the perceiver is different from colors etc., which are perceivable, so, the knower,
the Self, is different from the modifications of the intellect which are knowable. Again, just
as lamp which reveals things is different from them, so is the knower different from things known.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

153, 154: What other relation except that of the seer and the seen can there be between
the Self, the Witness, and the modifications of the intellect witnessed by It?

Question: Does the consciousness of the Self pervade the modifications, (really or apparently?

Answer: If apparently, the eternal Self must be of some unity to the intellect. (hence only
really).

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

155. It has been said before, (Verse 87), that the benefit derived from the proximity of the
Self by the intellect is that it appears conscious like the former. Being a revealer the intellect,
like light and so on, pervades objects such as jars etc.,

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII;

156. Just as a jar placed in the sun may be said to be brought to light, so, an object in
the intellect may be said to be brought under its cognizance. This bringing to cognizance
is nothing but being pervaded by the intellect. Objects become pervaded by the intellect
one after another.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

157. The intellect pervades an object (and assumes its form) when the objects is revealed
through the help, (that is the reflection) of the Self. Like time and space, the all pervading
Self can have no order or succession (in pervading objects).

***

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadea SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII

18. A thing like the intellect that depends on the agent etc., in pervading its objects and does
not pervade all objects at the same time, (some being always left unpervaded), is liable to
transformation.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upaadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

(Please read the previous verse number as 158 instead of 18.)

159. It is to the intellect and not to the Self which is immutable that the knowledge, 'I am
Brahman'belongs. Moreover, the Self is changeless because It has no other witness.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

160. If the agent, the ego, were to feel 'I am liberated', freedom from pain and pleasure would
not be reasonable with respect to it.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

161, 162: The wrong knowledge that one is happy or unhappy due to one's identification with
the body etc., like the pleasure or sorrow due to the possession or loss of an ear ring,
is usually negated by the right knowledge that one is Pure Consciousness. An evidence becoming
non evidence, everything will end in non existence in the reverse case.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

163. One feels when one's body gets burnt, cut or destroyed, because one identifies oneself with
it. Otherwise the Self which is different from the body, is never pained. Owing to there being
burns etc.,in one another man is not pained.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

163. One feels when one's body gets burnt, cut or destroyed, because one identifies oneself with
it. Otherwise the Self which is different from the body, is never pained. Owing to there being
burns etc.,in one another man is not pained.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

163. One feels when one's body gets burnt, cut or destroyed, because one identifies oneself with
it. Otherwise the Self which is different from the body, is never pained. Owing to there being
burns etc.,in one another man is not pained.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical -Chapter XVIII:

164. As I am not touched by anything and do not possess a body I am never susceptible of being
burnt. Pain arises from the wrong notion due to a false identification with the body, like the
wrong notion of one being dead at the death of one's son.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II- Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

165. Just as the wrong notion,'I possess an ear ring' is removed when the right knowledge
regarding i arises, so, the false consciousness 'I am unhappy' is negated by the right knowledge
'I am pure Brahman.'

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

166. The pure Self might be freely imagined to be susceptible to pain if It were proved to
possess it all. One's identification with the body etc., is the cause of the pain felt and
is responsible for the idea that the Self is susceptible to pain.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

167. Just as due to indiscrimination touch and movement are felt to be in the Self which is
devoid of them, so, mental pain is also felt to be in It (owing to the same reason).

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

168, 169: The pain (due to identification with the subtle body) comes to an end, when one
has the discriminating knowledge (that one is the Innermost Self) like the movements etc.,
(belonging to the gross body) which are negated (when one knows that one is different from it).
Unhappiness is seen in the Self when the mind roams against one's will on account of Ignorance.
But it is not seen in it when the mind is at rest. It is, therefore, not reasonable that unhappiness is in the Innermost Self.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

170. The saying,'Thou art That' implies an indivisible reality, the words 'Thou' and 'That'
expressing the same reality indirectly like (the words 'blue' and 'horse' in ) the sentence
'it is a blue horse.'

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

171. The word 'Thou' comes to mean one free from pain on account of its being used in the same
predicament with the word 'That' which means the One eternally devoid of pain. Similarly, used in the same connection with the word 'Thou' meaning the Innermost Self which is directly known,
the word 'That' also comes to mean a thing directly known.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

172. The sentence 'Thou art That' produces the immediate knowledge of Self-Brahman like
the saying, 'You are the tenth man.'

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri Sri Sankara:

Part II Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

173. Without giving up their own meanings, the words, 'thou' and 'That' deliver by implication,
a special one resulting in the knowledge of Self-Brahman. They do not express any other meaning
contrary to it. (See also Vakya Vritti of Sri Sankara).

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

174,175: Just as misled by the number nine the tenth boy did not know himself to be so, and
wanted to know who the tenth was, so, one does not see one's own Self, the Witness, though
detached from the non Self, and self evident, on account of one's eyes being covered by
Ignorance, and intellect captivated by desires.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

176. One knows one's own Self, the Witness of the intellect and all its modifications,
from sentences such as 'Thou art That' like the boy who knew himself from the sentence,
'you are the tenth'.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhsri- Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical; Chapter XVIII:

177,178: The understanding of sentences is possible (on the knowledge of the implied meanings
on the words), by the method of agreement and contrariety after it has been ascertained which
words should be placed first and which next.

For the order of words in Vedic sentences follows the meaning of the sentences. The rule about
remembering the meanings of words in accordance with their order in which the sentences are construed does not hold good in the Vedas.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

179. The question is out of place when the meanings of words in sentences having fixed meanings
are made clear in order that the meanings of sentences may be comprehended.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

10. The method of agreement and contrariety is spoken of in order that one may be acquainted
with the implied meanings of words. For one no one can know the meaning of a sentence without
knowing, the meanings of the words in it.


***

Subramanian. R said...

(The previous verse No. is 180 and not 10;.

Upadesa SAhasri Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

181-182: The meaning of the sentences like 'Thou at That'., one is Brahman
ever free, does not become manifest on account of the non-discrimination of the
(implied) meaning of the word 'Thou'. Therefore, it is for the purpose of discriminating
the meaning when the meaning of the word 'Thou' is discriminated) one becomes perfectly
sure of the Innermost Self by the negation of the ego connected with unhappiness from the
meaning of the sentence viz., one indivisible Pure Consciousness becomes maniofest like an
Aegle Mamelon fruit placed on one's palm.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Please read the above post's No. as 181-183 instead of 191,182:

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

184. Those who are well versed in the meanings of words and sentences should not, therefore,
assume a meaning which is not in accordance with the Srutis and give up what is in them. For
this explanation of the sentence is thus possible.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

15. (Objection): The knowledge 'I am Brahman' is contradicted by sense perception etc., like
the cooking of gold particles.

(Reply): How can that knowledge be contradicted by these which are evidences only apparently?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Please read the above verse as 185 instead of as 15.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

186.(objection). The knowledge that one is devoid of unhappiness does not arise from the sentence as long as one feels that one is unhappy, though the feeling of unhappiness may be due to sense perception etc.,which are all fallacious.

(Reply) We say 'No;. For there are exceptions.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

187, 188: (Reply continued). I felt miserable on account of burns, cuts, etc., in dream and
was freed from pain through the teaching (imparted to me by a man of knowledge) in that state.
Even if it be contended that the teaching in dream negates no pain, still pain etc.,cannot be\
regarded as belonging to the Self. For the absence of pain is there both before and after it is
experienced, a delusion or a pain being never unceasing.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

189.There is no contradiction if by negating the idea that one is unhappy one knows oneself to
be the Innermost Self (that is, Brahman) like the boy who knew himself to be the tenth and not one
of the other nine.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

190,191: It is from the sentence only and from nothing else that one knows oneself to be ever
free. The meaning of the sentence is known from the knowledge of the implied meaning of the words;
these meanings are surely understood by the method of agreement and contrariety. Thus one knows
oneself to be free from pain and action.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

192,193: The right knowledge of Self-Brahman becomes manifest from sentences such as 'Thou
art That', like the knowledge acquired from the sentence 'You are the tenth'. The false conception
of pain with regard to the Self vanishes for ever when the right knowledge of Self-Brahman arises
like all kinds of pains experienced in dream, which comes to an end as soon as one wakes up.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

194. The knowledge (that they have been cooked) does not arise in the case of gold particles
etc., as they do not become soft. They are made hot by boiling them for the purpose of producing
an unseen result (in connection with the sacrifices). It is not a fact that right knowledge does
not arise from sentences like 'Thou art That'. For there is no such contradiction here.

**

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

195. The meanings of the two words, 'That' and 'art' in the sentence 'Thou art That' are
well known. It does not produce right knowledge for want of help when the implied meaning
of the word 'Thou' is not known.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara -

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

196. The word 'art' is used in order to show that the two words 'Thou'and 'That' are in the same
predicament.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

197. Being in the same predicament with the word 'Thou', the word 'That', comes to mean the Innermost Self. Similarly, being in the same relation with the word 'That', the word comes to mean
the same thing as the word 'That'. Thus, in relation to each other, the two words show that the
Innermost Self is not unhappy and that Brahman is not other than the Self.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

198. Thus both of them in conjunction expresses the same meaning as is implied by the sentence
'Not this, not this'.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

199. Why do you say that the sentence is not an evidence regarding the knowledge of Brahman
and depends on an action, in order to produce the same knowledge, as the result produced by
sentence 'Thou art That' is the right knowledge regarding Self - Brahman?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

200. We do not, therefore, admit (the injunction of an action) in the beginning, end or middle.
(At the time of the first teaching of the sentence 'Thou art That', at the time when direct knowledge of Self has been achieved, and at the time of understanding the implied meanings of the words by the method of agreement and contrariety. For it is contradictory and not to be met with in the Vedas. Not only so, we have, in that case, to give up what is there in them. And that would be harmful.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

201. (Objection): The Bliss of liberation is not obtained by ascertaining the meaning of the
sentence unlike the satisfaction which is felt by eating. Just as boiled milk rice cannot
be prepared with cowdung, so the direct knowledge of Brahman cannot be produced simply by
ascertaining the meaning of the sentence.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

202. (Reply): Indirect knowledge, it is true, is the result produced by the sentences regarding
the non Self, but, it is not so in the case of those regarding the Innermost Self. It is, on the other hand, direct and certain knowledge like that in the case of the tenth boy.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

203. Therefore, accept the Self as self evident which means the same thing as self knowable.
The knowledge of the Innermost Self according to us becomes possible when the ego vanishes.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

204. Pain is a property belonging to the intellect. How can it, therefore, belong to the
Innermost Self, which is of the nature of Pure Consciousness and not connected with the pain?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

205. The Witness is known by Itself which is of the nature of knowledge only. It is the birth
of the modification of the intellect pervaded by the reflection of Consciousness that is what
is known to be the knowledge of the Self.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

206. How can you speak of the hearing etc., of the Self on your part which is a contradiction when
you are the eternally existing Liberation free from the hunger etc.,?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII.

207. Hearing etc., would be necessary if Liberation were to be brought about. But It would be
transitory in that case. The sentence, therefore, can have no other meaning in the presence of
inconsistency.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

208. The repetition of the idea, 'I am Brahman' might be possible if there were a difference
between the listener and what is listened to. The desired meaning wold be wronged in that case.
Therefore, the sentence becomes reasonable ie. loses authority according to that view.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

209. Knowing that one is eternally existing Liberation, one who desires to perform actions,
is a man of clouded intellect and nullifies the scriptures.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII.

210. For knowing oneself to be Brahman, one has no duty to perform. Nor can be a knower of
Brahman, when one has duties to perform. One deceives oneself by having recourse to both sides.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

211. (Objection) : If a Reality is only pointed to (but no injection be given) when one is
told, 'Thou art eternally existing Liberation.' how can one apply to oneself to know that one is
so (without being enjoined)?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

212. It is known by perceptual evidence that one is an agent and miserable. And then there
is an effort so that one may not remain so.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Par II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

213. The Sruti therefore, restates the agency etc., on the part of he people, and enjoins
duties such as the reasoning etc., in order that they may know that they are eternally existing
Brahman.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhsri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

214.(Reply) How can one accept an inconsistent meaning after knowing that one is eternally
existing Liberation, which is free from unhappiness and desires?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri: Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

215. (Objection) : You should say, why I, though of an opposite nature, should feel that
I have desires and activities and am not Brahman.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upasdesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIIIL

215.(Reply): A question on this subject is reasonable, but it is not reasonable to ask why
one is free. It is only a thing contrary that should bed questioned.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

(Please read the previous verse as No. 216)


217. The knowledge that one is free arises from a different evidence viz., the evidence,
'Thou art That'. Arising from fallacious perceptual evidence, unhappiness deserves an
explanation.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

218. One should not be told what one asks and wants to know. And the inquirer desires to
know liberation, (the Self) which is free from unhappiness.


****

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II- Metrical - Chapter XVIII:


219. That which removes unhappiness should be told (by the teacher to the disciple) according
to his question, inquiring how his unhappiness might be removed altogether.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

220. There can be no doubt about what the Srutis prove, as they are independent source
of knowledge. The words of Srutis, therefore, produce the conviction that one is free.
So it should be said that such is the meaning of the Srutis as it has been proved that,
they do not contradict any other source of knowledge.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAharsi - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

The Knowledge of the Self different from what has been said before is unreasonable on the
authority of the Srutis. 'It' is known to those who know It and Who will know the Knower?


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri: Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:


222. The renunciation of all actions in order to discriminate the implied meaning of the word
'thou' becomes the means to Self Knowledge according to the teaching, (Br.Up. 4.4.23)
controlling the internal and external senses.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upasesa Sahasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XVIII

223. One should know that the Self, the innermost One and the implied meaning of the word 'thou'
in the combination of the body and the senses. One of them knows the pure Self, to be Brahman,
the all comprehensive principle. And that is the meaning of the sentence, 'Thou art That'.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

224. How can one be enjoined to perform a duty when the meaning of the sentence that one is
Brahaman is known by one according to the right source of knowledge, viz., the Srutis as no
other source of knowledge can then exist for one?



***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

225.No actions can,therefore, be enjoined on one when one has known the meaning of the sentence,
'Thou art That'. For the two contradictory ideas, 'I am Brahman', and 'I am an agent', cannot
exist together.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

226, 227: That One is Brahman, is the right knowledge. It is not negated by the false
conceptions that one is an agent, has desires, and is bound, arising from fallacious evidences.
This false knowledge (that is, I am an agent) like the identification of the Self with the body,
becomes unreasonable when the knowledge that one is Brahman and not other than It is firmly
grasped according to the teaching of the scriptures.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II -Metrical - Chapter XVIII:


228. A man who tries to be free from fear and goes to a place which is devoid of it, from
one full of fear, does not, if independent, go to such a place again.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIIIL


229. How can there by the possibility of wrong conduct on the part of the one whom renunciation
etc., are enjoined and who is awakened, on knowing the implied meaning of the words and is aspiring after the comprehension of the meaning of the sentence?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:


230. Everything, therefore, that we said before, is unsubstantiated.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Chapter XVIII:


231. One does not try to attain anything in which one has lost interest. Why will a man
seeking liberation make any effort at all who has lost interest in all the three worlds?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

232. No one likes to eat poison even if pressed by hunger. So, no one who is not an idiot will
knowingly wish to eat it when his hunger has been appeased by eating sweet meats.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XVIII:

233. I bow down to my Teacher, a knower of Brahman, who collected for us, the nectar of knowledge
from the Vedantas like a bee collecting the best honey from flowers.

Chapter XVIII completed.

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri- Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

A CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE SELF AND THE MIND:

1. One becomes free from the distress caused by a series of hundreds of bodies, which has its
origin in a swoon due to the fever of desires, if one places oneself under the treatment,in which medicines are Knowledge and Dispassion -- the causes of the destruction of the fever of desires (mentioned before).

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

2. Oh mind, you indulge in vain ideas like 'me', 'mine'. Your efforts, according to others,
are for one, other than yourself. You have no consciousness of things and I have no desire
of having anything. It is, therefore, proper for you to remain quiet.

***



Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

3. As I am no other than the Supreme Eternal One. I am always contented and have no desires.
Always contented I desire no welfare for myself, but I wish your welfare. Try to make yourself
quiet.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II- Metrical - Chapter XIX:

4.One who is by nature beyond the six* continual waves, is, according to the evidence of the
Sruti, the Self of us and end of the universe. This is what I know from other sources of
knowledge also. Your efforts are, therefore, all in vain.

(*hunger, thirst, grief, delusion, old age and death.)

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX

Verse 5:



There is no idea of difference left which deludes all people through wrong notions when
you are merged! For the cause of all wrong notions is the perception of the (reality of)
difference. These wrong notions vanish as soon as one is free from this perception.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

6. i am not deluded by your efforts. For I have known the Truth and am free from all bondage
and change. I have no difference in the conditions proceeding the knowledge of Truth and
succeeding it. Your efforts, oh mind, are, therefore, useless.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa Sahasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

As I am eternal I am not otherwise. Transitoriness is due to the connection with changes.
I am always self effulgent and therefore without a second. It is ascertained that everything
created by the mind is non existent.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:


Scrutinized through the reasoning that reality (Bh. Gita. 2.16.) is never destroyed and
unreality never born, you have no real existence. You are, therefore, Oh my Mind, non-
existent in the Self. Having both birth and death, you are accepted as non existent.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIXL

9,10: As everything -- the seer, the seeing, and the seen - is a false notion of superimposed by you, and as no object of perception is known to have an existence independent of that of the Self, the Self is one only. When this is so, the Self in the state of deep sleep does not differ from Itself when in waking (or dream). Unreal like the circular form of a burning torch, superimposition also has no existence independent of that of the non dual Self. The oneness of the Self is ascertained from the Srutis as the Self has no division within Itself on account of different powers and as It is no different in different bodies.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

11. If according to you, souls were mutually different and so limited (by one another), they
would meet with destruction, as all such things are seen to come to an end. Again, all being
liberated, the whole world would meet with extinction.

***


Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:


12. There is no one who belongs to me nor is there anyone to whom I belong to as I am without
a second. The world which is superimposed does not exist. My existence, being known to be
anterior to superimposition. I am not superimposed. It is duality only that is so.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

13. The unborn Self can never be regarded as non existent because there cannot be the
superimposition of existence or non existence on It. What exists prior to you on which you
yourself are superimposed cannot Itself be superimposed.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

14. The duality seen to be pervaded by you, is unreal. That It is not seen is no reason that
the Self does not exist. That from which the wrong notions of existence and non existence proceed
must exist. And just as a deliberation ends in a conclusion, so, all things superimposed have
a final substratum in the really existing and non dual Self.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XIX:


15. If the duality, crated by you and assumed by is to be real, so that an investigation of the
Truth might be possible, were non existent. Truth would remain unascertained, owing to the investigation becoming impossible. The existence of a reality must be accepted as a matter of course, if an unascertained nature of Truth is not desirable.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri -Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical -Chapter XIX:

16.(Objection) - What is called real is, as a matter of fact, unreal like a human horn as
it does not serve any purpose. (Rep;y) That a thing serves no purpose is no reason, why it
should be unreal, on the other hand.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

17. Your inference is wrong because reality serves some purpose as It is the subject matter
of deliberation, and as It is also the Source of all duality proceeding from It under the
influence of Maya, according to the Srutis, the Smiritis and reason. Thus it is reasonable
(that the Self, though changeless, serves some purpose). Otherwise (i.e.as a matter of reality)
it is not reasonable that a thing, either permanent or momentary, serves any purpose.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

18. According to the Sruti*, It is of a nature contrary to that of superimposition. This One
is without a second as It is also known to have eternal existence even prior to all the superimposition. Unlike everything superimposed on It, which is negated on the evidence of the
Sruti - 'Not this, not this'. It is not negated and therefore It is left over.

(* Swetaswatara Upanishad 6/19.)

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri -Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:


19. Those who, owing to false notions in their own minds, superimpose the idea of existence,non existence etc., on the Self, which is not Itself superimposed and is birth-less, imperishable and without a second, always meet with birth, old age, and death as different kinds of beings.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

20. Duality can have no reality if both its birth and absence of n birth are denied (owing to the possibility of contradictions.) Again it cannot owe its origin to another thing either real or unreal. For in that case, being the origin of duality, reality would become unreal or unreality real. Hence the nature of actions and their instruments also cannot be ascertained. It is for these reasons that the Self is ascertained to be unborn.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

21. If the instruments in connection with the birth of duality be considered to be devoid of
any action whatever, there will be nothing which will not be an instrument. And if they are
considered to have the power of action, they will not be instruments. (For they can be acting neither) in the case of reality nor of unreality, as both these states are without any particulars (and will always produce effects or never produce any). Neither can they become instruments at the time of their deviation from their original states (of reality or unreality). For in that case the distinction between the nature of the cause and that of the effect cannot be ascertained like the relation of cause and effect and effect between the two ends (moving up and down )of the beam of a balance.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical -Chapter XIX:

22. If the reversal of reality and unreality is not desirable how can anything owe its origin to them which are of a fixed nature? For both of them stand out without having any connection with each other. Nothing, therefore, Oh mind, is born.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:


Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

23. Even by assuming the birth of things, if you like so, I say, your efforts serve me no purpose.
For not existing in the Self gain or loss cannot be there either uncaused or due to any cause.
Even assuming that they exist in the Self, it is a fact that your efforts are of no use to me.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhsri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

24. Things either immutable or transitory cannot have any relation with the other things or with themselves. Therefore it is not reasonable that they should have any effects. So nothing belongs to anything else. The Self Itself is also not directly within the scope of words.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri -Sri Sankara:

Part II -Metrical - Chapter XIX:

25. A wise man immediately meets with complete extinction of the bondage like the extinguishing of a lamp when he acquires through reasoning and the Srutis, the knowledge of /self which is the same
in all conditions, always, of the nature of self effulgent Consciousness and free from duality
fancied to be existing or non existing.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:

26. Knowing the One bereft of the Gunas, which is unknowable according to those who know It
to be not different from the Self, and which is very well knowable, according to those fallaciously argumentative people who wrongly know It to be an object of knowable, --- a man thus freed from the Gunas - becomes liberated from the bondage of false notions and is never deluded again.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:



27. False notions cannot be negated in any way other than knowing the Self. It is these wrong
notions that are the causes of delusion. These notions, bereft of their cause come to an
absolute end, like fire bereft of fuel (when knowledge is achieved.)

***

Subramanian. R said...

Upadesa SAhasri - Sri Sankara:

Part II - Metrical - Chapter XIX:


28.I bow down to the teachers, the great souls, who realized the Supreme Truth and gathered
from the ocean of Vedas, this knowledge (described om the present book) like gods who churned
the great ocean in ancient times and gathered nectar.

Here ends A Thousand Teachings, the substance of all the Upanishads, written by the All Knowing
Sankara, the Teacher and wandering Paramahamsa, the disciple of Govinda worthy of adoration.

Upadesa SAhasri -concluded.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai:

Prefatory Verses:


1. Obeisance to Guru:

1. The Guru abides without the base mental attitude of 'I' and 'mine', which exist through their dependence on erroneous understanding. He is the Sun of bodha (Knowledge) that will shine as the Self of the seeker, conferring such a clarity of knowledge in his heart, he will no longer be distressed by his longing for the grace.

(Tr. David Godman)

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr. David Godman:

Prefatory Verses:


1. Obeisance to the Guru:

2. Even as I wallowed in misery, confounding myself with the form of the body, He (Ramana),
banishing as 'not I' the dirty insentient body, lovingly ruled over me as the Guru, who
bestowed knowledge of the indestructible reality. May the Feet of the Mouna Guru, benevolent
grace itself, rest on my head!

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman.

3. The Guru, the Master of Jnana, gives out clearly and concisely the true import of
all the widely differing (scriptural) statements, skillfully establishing their relevance
so that they are shown to be completely harmonized. May his feet rest upon my head!

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:

2.Name of the Work and its Origin:

4. This bright clear "Lamp of Supreme Truth" (Paramartha Deepam) was not one that I myself lit
with my infantile and immature knowledge - I whose heart had not seen the truth shine. It was lit
by my Lord Ramana with His ripe, supreme Jnana.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

5. The grace bestowing Lord Ramana is the Swarupa that shines as the Self, the reality that
exists as self effulgent being consciousness. Of the many instructions He gave out to end the
(mental) weakness and confusion (of sadhakas) I shall relate a few that have remained in my
memory and which I have cherished in my heart.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:



6. Abiding where Ramana embraced me, I dwelt there with my Lord and rejoiced with Him.
I will relate a fragment (of the teachings) on the nature of the Supreme Truth (Paramartha
Dharma) that I realized in our life of union together.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

7. Ramana, Guru and God, caused clear understanding to arise in me by destroying the veiling,
the rising ego sense. I shall now relate the teachings on the Supreme Truth, that I discovered
through the perspective of grace granted by Him, and I shall string them together as a garland.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:

Benefit of the Work:

8. Since the Supreme Self exists as all there is, there is nothing whatsoever, for it to attain.
Therefore, the benefit of this 'Lamp of Supreme Truth' is to bring about total cessation of
mental movements towards dharma, artha, and kama.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:

Benefit of the Work:

9. One's own real nature, the Self, which shines as the very essence of happiness,is the origin
of all the pleasures in this world and the next. Because of its supreme eminence, the benefit of this work is to become firmly absorbed in that Self, without being assailed by thoughts of all
the other states of attainment.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai -Tr. David Godman:


Apology:


10. Upon examination, (it will be discovered that) this elegant Guru Vachaka Kovai, was not
sung by me, a dull witted fool, through intellectual exertion. It was Venkatavan*, divinity in
human form, who, without conscious volition, caused me to sing it.

(*Bhagavan Sri Ramana)

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Apology - continues..


11. Why should I offer an apologetic preface for a work that was not written by an ego-consciousness that proclaims itself to be 'I'? The responsibility for this work belongs
solely to that great being (Ramana), who is realized by the great ones in their hearts
through Mouna Samadhi.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Dedication:

12. By giving me this birth, my mother, who knew nothing of craftiness or clever talk,
enabled me to destroy ignorance, and attain wealth of Jnana. I therefore lovingly and
whole heartedly dedicate this work to her, saying, 'Let this work become an offering to
my mother's blessed heart.

***


Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:


6.The Author:


13. He who recorded and strung into a garland a few of the Guru's instructions and announced
this pre-eminent scripture to the world is Kanna Muurgan, who sees through His eye of grace
that the essence of all things is only the flourishing feet of his Lord.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Part I - Investigation into Truth:

Auspicious Invocation:

14. Through the righteous and exalted tapas performed by Goddess Earth, whom the oceans encircle,
the abundantly glorious pure Brahman, itself, has assumed the graceful form of Sri Ramana
Sadguru. May His immaculate feet, being consciousness, abide in our hearts.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Translation David Godman:


Investigation into Truth: (continues)

15. The pure Swarupa, the unique word that abides as the heart of all things, is the excellent,
grace bestowing invocation to this Guru Vachaka Kovai, whose purport is the Jnana that dispels
the delusion of the ignorant.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth: continues...


16. Atma Swarupa, the primal essence that is wholly consciousness, is experienced directly
through the state that is entirely Mauna. It flourishes and shines as the real nature of the
reflected consciousness (Chidabhasa) whose form is the false'I', the ego. This pure
transcendental Swarupa, the fundamental substratum, is the Ultimate Reality.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth - continues...

17. Our Guru's form is the reality that sleeps without sleeping in the Heart. He is the self
luminous effulgence that shines in the Heart, like a beautiful lamp that needs no kindling.
To those who having experienced, merging in the Heart, He is a luscious fruit full of the sweet
clarity of the supreme bliss that, without a trace of aversion, causes an ever increasing desire
(for itself). His Grace indeed is the true wealth.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr. David Godman:

Investigation in to the Truth:


18. He possesses a heart in which attachment and separation are not possible. He is the
Swarupa who has the beauty of renunciation that is Jnana. Putting an end to the sorrow
caused by forgetfulness of the Self, He ruled over me and brought me under His dominion.
His feet are the perfect exemplar of all the distinguishing characteristics pf truth.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vacahka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

19.Since the cause itself (reality) appears as the effect (the world), and because consciousness
-- the cause of this vast world described by the Sastras (the scriptures) as being merely names
and forms -- is a truth as obvious as the nelli fruit on one's palm, it is proper to term this
great world 'real.'

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr.David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

20. The worlds that are described as being rather three or fourteen are real when seen
from the point of view of the primal cause, Brahman, because they have unceasing existence
as their (real) nature. However, when attention is paid only to the names and forms, the
effect, even the undecaying cause, the plenitude, will appear to be non existent.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

21. To the ignorant, who believe it to be real and revel in it, the world that appears
before them is God's creation, but to the steadfast Jnanis, who have known the bondage free
Self by direct experience, it is merely a deluding and binding concept that that is wholly
mental.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

22. Understand (well) that the world sense of empty names and forms, comprising the objects
of the five senses perceived in the perfectly pure Swarupa, the Supreme Self, is merely the
divine sport of the mind-maya that arises as an imaginary idea in that Swarupa, being-
consciousness.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

23. Those in whose consciousness there is no awareness whatsoever of anything other than
the Self, the absolute fullness of consciousness, will not declare this world, which fro
the prospective of God (Brahman) does not exist, to be that truth whose hall mark is never
to deviate from absolute fullness (Paripooranam).

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:


24. You who believe that the world, which is experienced merely as an object of the senses,
is real, and who cherish it as something worthwhile, some ultimately to grief, like the parrot
that waits for the silk cotton fruit to ripen! If this world is real merely because it is perceived, then water seen in the mirage is also real because it too is perceived.

***

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Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:


Investigation into Truth:

25. Do not get confused by abandoning the state of clarity, the Swarupa-perspective, and then
pursue appearances, taking them to be real. That which appears will disappear, and hence it
is not real, but the true nature of the one who sees never ceases to exist. Know that it alone
is real.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

26. Since the world appears only to mind-consciousness, the distortion produced by Maya,
and not to the Atma Swarupa-consciousness that exists as the source of the mind, can there
be any world that truly exists?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Turth:

27. Do not be confounded by this worthless Samsara,that appears as a dream in the deluding
(sleep of) ignorance. In a mind that has an intense desire for reality - consciousness,
the supreme - it is impossible for the binding mental delusion that arises in the dense
darkness of ignorance to remain.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

28.You who shrink from the world, trembling in fear! There is no such thing as a real world.
Therefore, to be afraid of the imaginary world that appears to real is like fearing the
imaginary snake (that is misperceived) in a coiled rope.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:



29. The world is seen fully and distinctly only in the waking and dream states in which
Sankalpas (thoughts) have arisen. Is it ever seen in during sleep, where there is absolutely
no arising of thoughts? Therefore, Sankalpas alone are the material substance of the world.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:

30. If the perceived world is only the glorious play of thought, why does it still appear
as it did before --albeit like a dream - even when the mind remains tranquil, without thoughts?
This is because of the unexhausted momentum of the previous imagination.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

31. Like a spider that has the wonderful power to extrude the strands of its web from its
mouth, and then withdraw them back there, the mind unfolds the world within itself and then
withdraws it back into itself.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

When the mind emerges first enough the brain and then through the senses, along with it
names and forms are pushed out from within. Conversely, when the mind rests in the Heart,
they enter and subside there again.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:



33. Through the names and forms the world appears in all its discordant diversity.
When names and forms cease for ever, it (the world) is Brahman. A person with a limited
mind masks the true God (Brahman) with concepts of name and form, sees it as a world,
and is bewildered and frightened.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

34. The world that associates with us, as an appearance of names and forms is as transient
as a lightning flash. The faltering understanding 'I am the body' is the deceptive device
that makes us desire the world as if it were real, (thereby) entrapping us instantaneously
in the powerful snare of bondage.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:


35. The world phenomenon, consisting of dualities and trinities, shines because of thoughts.
Like the unreal circle traced in air by a whirling firebrand, it (the world phenomenon) is
created by the spinning of the illusory mind. However, from the point of view of Swarupa,
the fullness of intense consciousness, the illusory mind is non existent. This you should
know.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:

36. You worldly minded man, (you) who do not accept as the true the fair and reasonable
teachings of the Supreme Jnana that are declared by Jnanis! If you thoroughly examine the
world, this vision misperceived by a jaundiced eye, this bloating out of a great delusion,
it is merely a deception caused by the Vasanas.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

37. What exists is the plenitude of object free Jnana, which shines as unconditioned
reality. The world appears as an object that is grasped by your Suttarivu. Like the
erroneous perception of a person with jaundice who sees everything as yellow, this entire
world is a deluded view consisting of wholly of a mind that has defects such as ego, deceit,
desire and so on.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:

38. Just as yellow turmeric powder loses its color and become white under sunlight, this
wholly mental world perishes before the sunlight of knowledge of reality. Therefore, it is not
a creation of God, the sun of true Jnana. Like the many-hued eye of the peacock feather,
this bright world is only a vast picture, a reflection seen in the darkened mirror of impure
mind.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth.


39. In the experience of true knowledge, which is the reality of the Self, this world
is merely the beautiful (but illusory) azure blue color that appears in the sky. When one
becomes confused by the veiling, the 'I am the body' delusion, those things that are seen
through Suttarivu, are merely an imaginary appearance.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

40. This world, a vast and harmful illusion that hoodwinks and ravages the intellect of all,
has arisen through nothing other than the mistake of pramada, which is abandoning one's true
nature instead of remaining merged with it.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:


41. This worldly life is a dream like appearance, sapless, and deluding, that functions through
the mixture of the pairs of opposites such as desire and aversion. It appears as if real only as
long as one is under the spell of the maya sleep. It will end up being totally false when one truly
wakes up into the maya-free Self.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

42. One's true nature is consciousness, the supreme. When the mind is extinguished in that Self,
the three Saktis, beginning with iccha, which are said to exist, will completely cease, being
(known to be) unreal superimposition upon the perfectly pure consciousness that is one's true
nature.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai -Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

43. Sivam, which is consciousness, the supreme, abides as the substratum for the entire
universe. Consisting of the triputis, the world picture that appears in it is the sport
of the supreme power of consciousness. Like a cinema show, it is superimposed illusion.
This you should know.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

44. The world does not exist in the state of ultimate truth, (paramartha). Its appearance
its (apparently) existing nature in Maya, is like the imagined appearance of a snake, in a rope,
a thief in a wooden post, and water in a mirage. Their essential nature is delusion.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

45. This world that consists of diverse moving and unmoving objects, which arise and shine in
the Self, is like the various ornaments that arise from gold and shine, taking gold as their
base. Just as the ornaments that shine as many are, in truth, only gold in essence, the world
is not separate and distinct from the Self, consciousness.

***

heyjude said...

"Let's take out the trash before the New Year! Here's what a former inmate of Sri Mooji's Portugese prison camp has to say: "Hey, I tried to surrender to the lake of sewage known as Mooji's Satsang, but the price kept creeping up and in the end it was just wealthy Europeans and self appointed Mooji-slaves who were allowed in. I saw him change from local boy to multi-millionaire, turning over £500,000 per long weekender satsang. Once the body-guards arrived who were protecting the 'no-one' who wasn't there, I thought it would be a good time to get outta there"

Guruphiliac

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:

46. The Supreme is concealed when the world is seen, and is conversely, when the Supreme is
seen, the world disappears. Both cannot be seen distinctly, as two separate entities, at
the same time, (just as) in a carved statue of a dog, the dog and the stone cannot be seen
as two separate entities simultaneously.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:


The world that veils the Self through names and forms, and appears to be real, is only a
dream-like appearance. If, instead, that very same world gets veiled by the Self and appears
as consciousness alone, then as the Self, it too is real.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr.David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:


48. This world, an infatuating throng of triputis, bewilders the minds of people, into
believing that it has an independent existence, distinct from Swarupa. However, it is all
only the play of the power of consciousness that, not existing apart from the supreme non-dual
Swarupa, always remains one with it.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:

49. God, the light of consciousness, shines as Atma Swarupa to one whose attention is focused
within. For those who look outwards, he is shrouded by the world, which is a collection of tattvas. This is like a fire that glows brightly within but is covered on outside by smoke. If, by divine grace, which is the very nature of God, the mind is cleared of the confusion that is Suttarivu, the beauty of the world will not be a mental hallucination, an imaginary appearance, but ultimate reality itself.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:

50. To steadfast Jnanis who do not abandon the Self consciousness that is the substratum for
all the imaginary and differentiated forms of knowledge, these (forms of knowledge) are all
wholly Self. From this standpoint they (the Jnanis) declare that these differentiated forms of
knowledge are also real. How is it possible for ignorant people who have not attained Self knowledge to understand the true meaning of this statement?


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:


51. True consciousness shines by itself, without limitation, and without clinging to the world.
By the shining of this consciousness he power that Maya-defilement (exerts) over the mind
perishes. Only those people who have a defilement-free pure mind, and who therefore know the transcendental consciousness, in addition to the awareness of the world, can know with certainty
the true import of the statement - 'the world is real'.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

52. If one corrects one's gross vision, transforming it into the eye of Jnana, and if one attentively vies the world with that eye of truth, that is wholly Jnana, then the world which
was previously seen as the form of five elements, beginning with space, will be only Brahman
that is entirely consciousness.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

53. If one corrects one's defective vision, transforming it into the form of true Jnana,
the Supreme, and if one then sees with that Jnana vision, the world that appeared as a sea
of sorrows, will exist as a sea of supreme bliss.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

54. The Jnani's vision matures into being consciousness bliss, the eye of truth, because
the mischievous movement of the ego-mind have ceased completely. Since the nature of the seen
is not different from the nature of the eye that sees, to the true Jnani the world too is
definitely being consciousness bliss.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

55. The world scene that unfolds like a dream is nothing other than the mind, a deluded
perspective. Its true nature will appear as it really is only to the true awareness,
the distilled being-consciousness that shines, transcending the mind-maya.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation of the Truth:

56. Foolish and deceitful mind, you who everyday become greatly deluded upon seeing as different from yourself the dream (of the waking state), which occurs as wholly yourself! If you realize your true nature as it actually is, will this world be different from that Reality, Being Consciousness Bliss?


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:


57. Just as the yolk of the egg of the many hued green peacock is only one (in color),
the original state of this insubstantial world, which appears to be distorted into teeming
multiplicity, is pure and unalloyed happiness. By abiding in the state of the Self, know
this truth now, even while the Self, appearing as an effect, takes the form of the world
manifesting through the power of Maya.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Turth:

58. All the differences that, crowding together, accumulate to form the world are in truth
only sport of grace, the power of the one consciousness. Therefore, Jnanis whole sole focus
is the knowledge of the radiant reality will never perceive the world of many differences except
as a mere appearance.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

59. For the true Jnani who is firmly established in the state of the Self, free of contagion
'I am the body', the world flourishes solely as consciousness, as nothing other than his own
Self. It is, therefore, a mistake to view the world as different from oneself.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:


60. First, completely drive away the confusion caused by the world by making the world subside into nothingness. There, the seer sees that world free void as an object. Destroy that void as
well in the ocean of consciousness that is the seer's true nature.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

61. Everything exists and shines as being consciousness. If you remain firmly established
in the Heart as that same being-consciousness, the false dualistic nature (of the world) that
arises through delusion, and which creates fear, will cease, and you and the world will
become one and the same.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai -Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:

62. The world appears is an association that comprises the five sense perceptions. He who
has known it to be wholly Self. the consciousness that is the supreme, knows and experiences
the same Swarupa through his five senses as well.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

The Unreality of the world:

63. 'Though this world that manifests before our eyes.appearing and disappearing, does not
exist all the time, it is still real when it appears.' So insist some people with great confidence. We refute their assertion by questioning, 'Is not an eternally existing nature one of the hall marks of reality?'

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

The Unreality of the world:

64. 'Though this world seems fragmented to the senses, its fragmentary nature does not invalidate
its reality.'So argue some people. We refute their assertion by questioning, 'Is not indivisible
wholeness (Paripuranam) also a characteristic of reality?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:


Investigation into Truth:


The Unreality of the World.

65. Those who have known the truth as it really is will not declare this world, which is forever undergoing destruction by the wheel of time, to be real. Only the plenitude that
shines uninterruptedly at all times and in all places, transcending time and space, is the nature of the reality.


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai -
Tr.David Godman:


Investigation into the Truth:

The Unreality of the world:

66. Only the one Sadasivam (eternal Sivam), the supreme being that is nothing other than peace,
is the non dual reality, that is equally and fully present everywhere. So, the dualstic, sorrowful world appearance is only the confused and false consciousness, the mind, which has fragmented itself into imaginary differences.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

The Unreality of the world:

67. The worlds do not exist apart from consciousness. The perception of them, through the form
of the body ego as independent entities that are different from oneself, consciousness, is
brought about by the cataract of veiling.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

Unreality of the world:

68.Is everything that is perceived by the five senses of this unreal body real or unreal?
Mind of mine, you have grown weary and exhausted by drowning in the ways of the world! At least,
now, evaluate the matter through careful investigation and give your reply.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

Unreality of the world:

69. Buried in the false darkness of ignorance, imagining itself, alas, to be the inert body,
and rising as 'I' through sin, the jiva, who is (in truth) consciousness, slips from the true
state of peace. What it perceives appearing before it is an insubstantial appearance and not a
real substance.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

Unreality of the world:

70. Though the world seduces us, appearing to be real in the reflected consciousness ( chidabhasa)
that is the mind (chittam), its appearance and movement in the reality, pure consciousness
(chaitanya), is only illusion.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

The Enticement of the World:

71. For the sake of impermanent worldly prosperity, people will gleefully wander in vain,
like the pointless swinging of a goat's dewlap, but they will look contemptuously upon the
conduct that leads to liberation, the eternal Self. Alas! The conduct of such ignorant people
is so pitiable, the wise cannot even bear to see it.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

The Enticement of the world:

72. People of the world will pine for the thoroughly dubious pleasures,tiny as sesame seeds,
obtained laboriously ploughing with their minds the brackish land of sense objects, which are
a creation of Maya. They will not desire the unlimited bliss that is produced by easily ploughing,through consciousness, the truly fertile field of the Heart, the source of the mind.
What can one say about the wonder of Maya?


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr.David Godman:

Investigation into Truth.

The Enticement of the world.

73. Even at the very moment that the 'I' arises, this lady, the moon-like sense of individuality,
is duty bound to carefully conduct herself in a chaste way in the Heart, -- the space of
consciousness -- as the legitimate wife of the Lord, the Self that is the sun of Jnana. If she
forsakes the bliss of the Self, which is in harmony with her dharma, and slips from that chaste
conduct through infidelity, hankering after worldly enjoyment and wallowing in it, this is just
a frenzied act of stupidity caused by the beginning-less, past karma.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

The Enticement of the world:

74. The supreme liberation (para mukti), the shining of pure being, will be obtained only when
the allure of the world completely ceases. Since the world is an illusory creation of maya, to
insist, through the power of the intellect, on foisting reality upon it on account of one's
intense craving for it, is like an infatuated lover who insistently bestows chastity upon an
inveterate prostitute because of the intensity of his lust for her.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai: Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into the Truth:

The barrenness of the World:


75. Unlike those crazy people who are deluded into believing that this false world is real,
Jnanis who have realized the truth will not consider anything other than Brahman, which is
wholly consciousness, to be worth attaining and enjoying.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

The barrenness of the World:

76. Will those whose consciousness goes to and rests in reality stray towards the despicable
ways of the world? To plunge headlong into and merge with the unreal world -- is this not
the activity of a base animal that, operating exclusively through the senses, has no stability
in consciousness?


***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

The benefit of Jnana bestowing Vairagya:

77. If you ask, 'What is the benefit of a dispassion-filled intellect that rejects with indifference the abundant enjoyment of sense objects? The answer is - 'It the unceasing experience of the natural bliss of peace of the Self in the Heart which comes from a true dispassion that is not different from the knowledge of reality.'

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Translation by David Godman;

Investigation into the Truth:

The benefit of Jnana bestowing Vairagya

78. There is no happiness that exists in its own right in any single one of the objects of
the inert world. When this is the case, why does the stupid mind delude itself, imagining
that happiness arises from the objects of the world?

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

The benefit of Jnana bestowing Vairagya:

79. Wealth will pass away, leaving in want and suffering those foolish ones who once exulted
in and felt pride in the wealth they formerly possessed.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

The benefit of Jnana bestowing Vairagya:

80. The Self that is encountered in the self shining true state of Turiya is the broad and
shady bodhi tree that frees Jivas completely from the triple miseries (tapatraya) that they
experience by running around in the desert, that sapless and empty world dream which appears
through the whirling of ancient Vasanas.

***

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Tr. David Godman:

Investigation into Truth:

Conduct in the World:

81. Reach the Heart by clearly knowing your true nature and abide there permanently as that
unattached Supreme Self, without slipping from the source of knowledge. Then, act according to
the human role you have assumed, outwardly behaving as if, like all others in the world, you
are experiencing joy and misery.


***

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