Thursday, May 12, 2011

Open Thread

The previous 'Open Thread' appear to be malfunctioning by posting each comment twice. I am starting a new one to see if that solves the problem.

I omitted to mention earlier that a new feature has been added to the 'Recent Comments' box. Near the top there is an icon of two people. If you click on it, you will see a list of the users who have made the last twenty-five comments. If you then tick the white box to the left of the user's name, the recent comments of that particular user will be featured. You can then open them all with the 'expand all' option, or open them one by one by clicking on the plus sign.

If you want to do a search for older comments, click on the 'next' box and comments 26-50 will display. Click again and 51-75 will appear. And so on. The same search facility is available inside each twenty-five comment block.

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Subramanian. R said...

From Fragrant Petals:
2005 edition - Asramam Publications:
Above Orthodoxy and Unorthodoxy:
Krishna Bhikshu -

continues...

For instance, Major Chadwick, who, not being a Hindu, was not subject to the sastras, asked Sri Bhagavan once whether eating onions was not an impediment to spiritual progress, and Sri Bhagavan agreed it was. Chadwick thereupon gave up onions completely. But they still continue to be used in the Asramam kitchen.

Sri Bhagavan took meticulous care to see that the injunctions of the sastras were carried out in the building and consecration of the Mother's Temple.

In His life time, there was a screen in the dining hall separating the Brahmins from the others. Sri Bhagavan Himself sat against the wall at right angles to both and in view of both. This is important to remember for the incident that follows: The screen implied an interdict on interdining between brahmins and non brahmins. One day a relative of Sri Bhagavan's and therefore a Brahmin [I think it is Viswanatha Swami's brother, who was a Gandhian] demanded to eat among the non brahmins but Sarvadhikari would not allow it. They were arguing abut it when Sri Bhagavan came on the scene and asked what the matter was.

"He says he has no caste," Sarvadhikari told Him. 'that all are equal in the presence of Sri Bhagavan and that he is simply a human being not bound by the shackles of caste, creed, clime or colour.'

"Oh, is that so? Sri Bhagavan said, looking surprised. "Then you are wrong to insist that he should eat with the brahmins."

But then, turning to His cousin, Sri Bhagavan remarked: "But you too are wrong. These people here feel that they are non-brahmins. You have no caste feeling so how can you sit among them? There is only one person here who has the feeling of being neither brahmin nor nor brahmin, and that is myself. So," calling to the attendant, "place a leaf plate for him, by my side; let him sit with me." The young man was shocked by the implications of this proposal and immediately took his place with the brahmins.

Now, let us consider the standpoint of those who condemn all orthodoxy. A visitor once said to me: "I hope your Bhagavan is not hide-bound, following all the rules of Hindu orthodoxy?"

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Above Orthodoxy and Unorthodoxy:

Krishna Bhikshu - continues....

I replied cautiously. "Let me
understand you before committing myself an answer. First of all, do you believe that Sri Bhagavan is a realized man? And secondly, what do you mean by Hindu
orthodoxy?"

"How can I say He is realized or not? You say He is. And as for orthodoxy, you are only pretending not to know. I mean all the rules that govern your daily conduct -- eating, sleeping, bathing and so on, and your social conduct among yourselves and towards others, the rules that were made for you by the so called Sages of ancient times, Manu and the rest."

"You are right insofar as neither you nor I can exactly evaluate the position of Sri Bhagavan," I said, "but as for orthodoxy, you have ever investigated the purpose of the Sages in laying down these rules of life? Have you tried to understand them? Or have you tried to follow them and noted the results in a scientific spirit?"

"What!" he exclaimed, "if primitive people invented nonsensical superstitious rules and called them dharma, am I to follow them without proof or logic? That is impossible."

"Then you are unscientific," I replied. "Before you condemn a law you should first follow it and find out by experiment whether its results agree with what is claimed for it. Anyway, I will explain it to you."

"The ancient Hindus recognized four aims in life, which they called purusharthas. These are: dharma, artha, kama, and moksha. Dharma is the law of being. Wealth [artha] has to be earned and life enjoyed [kama] according to dharma. The final result will be moksha, that is liberation from bondage. He who follows this course is an integrated personality. He has harmonized his prana or vital force with his mind and characteristics or samskaras. A man acts according to his samskaras, that is tendencies inherited from past lives. His inclination results from the reaction of these past tendencies to present environment. They should be directed to achievement of the purusharthas culminating in moksha. The ancient Seers or Rishi had the vision to see the implications of every word, gesture or act of a man and on this basis framed rules which would, they said, if properly followed, help him to achieve his purpose in life. He could pursue the true goal either in society or as a Sannyasin outside the society, but only by following the rules. His earthly life should be so conducted as to lead to the final goal of moksha.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Above Orthodoxy and Unorthodoxy:

Krishna Bhikshu - continues....

"Spiritual endeavour to achieve this
end is called Sadhana and he who dedicates his life to it is a Sadhaka.
It involves cultivation, control and final conquest of body, emotions, senses and the entire ego and lead to
liberation. The Seers have noted the whole discipline required to this end. Control is a hard task. Control of a running horse can only be achieved step by step, and so it is with the ego. It is the liberation towards which it leads the justification of Sadhana. The ancient Seers did not have claims to have invented rules for it, only to have seen the results of spiritual, emotional, mental and physical disciplines on a man. They laid down the law of being and working of all aspects of the human personality. That is why the smritis that go by their names are said to be merely suhrut samhita, advising as a good friend, not compelling as a ruler. They merely indicate the road leading to the required end. If you break the rules that they recommend, they do not punish, only you do so at your own peril, namely peril to the success of your venture.

"Take the question of food -- just one
among many. Modernists tell us that the food we eat has nothing to do with our spiritual progress. But the
Chandogya Upanishad says that the subtlest part of the food you eat becomes your mind. Sri Bhagavan says the same, as is indicated in the last sentence of His Self Enquiry. And Krishna in the 11th Chapter of the Bhagavad Gita lays down the several types of purity necessary for the sadhaka, one of them being pure food.
Even if we believe that the opinions of modern reformers outweigh the statements of the Vedic Rishis, the Maharshi and Sri Krishna, should we not be scientific and give what they say, a fair trial and note the results?"

Returning to the question of the Maharshi: It is true that He did not personally follow all that is laid down in the scriptures regarding food, but He did not need to, since He was not a Sadhaka but a Mukta, having already achieved the Goal. It is true also that He allowed a good deal of licence to His followers, but that does not necessarily mean that He approved of it. His way was to influence, rather than to command.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Direct Teaching of Bhagavan
Ramana - Sri V. Ganesan -
2nd Edition - 2011:

continues....

Devotee: What are the obstacles
to remaining steady in unbroken
Bliss? How can they be overcome?

Maharshi: The obstacles are:

1. Ignorance which is forgetfulness
of one's pure being.

2. Doubt which consists in wondering if even the experience was of the Real
or of the unreal.

3. Error which consists in the " I am
the body" idea and thinking that the
world is real. These are overcome by
hearing the truth, reflection on it and concentration.

Hearing the Truth is of two kinds: The ordinary one is to hear it enunciated and explained by a master. However, the right one is to raise the question (Who am I?) for oneself and seek and find the answer in oneself as the unbroken 'I-I'.

To be reflecting on this experience is the second stage. To remain one pointed in it is the third stage.

- Talks No. 95.

Devotee: What is Renunciation?

Maharshi: Giving up of the ego.

Devotee: Is it not giving up possessions?

Maharshi: The Possessor too.

- Talks No. 164

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Major Chadwick's Reminiscences:
From Arunachala Ramana -
Boundless Ocean of Grace:
Volume IV:

Sri Dakshinamurty is known as the
silent Guru, the Gurus of all gurus.
Though he is daily worshipped in every
Siva temple, in the South, he has a few
temples of his own. Dakshinamurty is an aspect of Siva.

As an example of how eloquent silence can be for the sincere seeker, the following episode which I personally witnessed in the Old Hall some years ago will illustrate. A gentleman from Kashmir came to the Asramam with his servant who could not speak a word of any other language, except his native Kashmiri. One night when the Hall was almost dark except the pale glimmer of a single hurricane lantern, the servant came to the Hall and stood before Sri Bhagavan in a respectful manner jabbering something rapidly in his own language. Sri Bhagavan said nothing but lay quietly gazing at Him,
After a while the servant saluted and left the Hall. Next morning, his master came to Sri Bhagavan and complained: "Bhagavan, you never told me you could speak Kashmiri, was it fair?"

"Why, what do you mean?" asked Sri Bhagavan. "I know not a single world of your language."

Sri Bhagavan asked the gentleman how he had got hold of this absurd idea and the latter explained:

"Last night my servant came to you and asked you several questions in his language. He tells me that you answered him in his same language
and cleared his doubts."

"But I never opened my mouth," Sri Bhagavan replied.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Miracles and Sri Bhagavan:
by N. N. Rajan -
From Silent Power, 2009
reprint:

It is common to see people flock
to those who exhibit occult powers
and perform miracles like curing ailments, floating on water, sitting
buried under earth etc., but Self realization and miracle mongering are poles apart. The Jnani does not care for miracles. To the Jnani, the control of the senses leading to realization of the Self is the only aim. This is really the greatest miracle, and to achieve it, is the Jnani's goal.

The great Jnani that He was, Sri Bhagavan always revlled in the natural state of supreme bliss. He did not wish to perform miracles. In fact, He warned people against it. This does not mean that He had no powers. He had them in abundance, as witnessed by many, one Sri Bhagavan never liked to exhibit them.

He behaved as any ordinary man would. Regarding the manifestation of powers seen by the devotees, it might be due to His infinite compassion that the miracles happened and He might not have been particularly intent on them.

One evening, while I was sitting outside Sri Bhagavan's Hall, just in His view, suddenly I noticed an expressive gesture in His face as He leaned forward from His reclining position. It looked as though He was calling me to say something. I was impelled to respond to His gesture,by getting up and going near Him but He did not tell me anything. I resumed my seat only to find, in a couple of minutes, another jerk and a similar expressive movement in Him as before. This time also I was stirred and when I went nearer there was no further indication. I took my seat again but now I became restless. I could not resist the urge to leave the place at once with the expectation of some urgent matter demanding my presence. I prostrated to Sri Bhagavan and I left the Hall without a word.

A major train accident had happened at my head quarters station about nine miles off. I had been forewarned by Sri Bhagavan in a strange manner as recorded above and due to His grace, I was free from the blame of not being on the spot in the emergency. Obviously Sri Bhagavan's warning was quite in advance of the actual happening, The way He did it is most noteworthy. There was no public demonstration or publicity. An act of grace to a devotee, in His own unique way and with no means of others knowing that a miracle was actually performed. This is typical of our Sri Bhagavan.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

You have quoted Sri Ramakrishna telling
that if a spiritual seeker's wife is a hindrance to his sadhana,, he should go away from her and even if she commits
suicide or does something else, it does not matter. I am reminded Avvayiar's poem which inter alia means:

SaRRu eRu maaRai irunthaal, kooRamal Sannyasm koL. If she is somewhat different and unhelpful [to your spiritual sadhana] please embrace sannyasam even without telling her.

Of course, this holds good for a spiritual sadhaki, also, in case her husband is different and unhelpful.

****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanaian,
Regarding the post from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna-Please go through that post again.It is not as superficial as all that;The Master is just emphasising the importance of seeking 'God' as paramount to all other consideration.It is not a Gender bias.
Later on ,it did happen that 'M''s wife was contemplating suicide after the loss of one of their sons.Here is an excerpt from the Gospel:
At five o'clock the younger Naren was ready to go home. Sri Ramakrishna stood by his side
on the northeast verandah and gave him various instructions. Then the boy saluted the
Master and departed. Many of the devotees also took their leave.
Sri Ramakrishna was sitting on the small couch talking to Mohini. Mohini's wife was
almost mad with grief on account of her son's death. Sometimes she laughed and sometimes
she wept. But she felt peaceful in Sri Ramakrishna's presence.
MASTER: "How is your wife now?"
MOHINI: "She becomes quiet whenever she is here; but sometimes at home she becomes
very wild. The other day she was going to kill herself."
When Sri Ramakrishna heard this he appeared worried. Mohini said to him humbly, "Please
give her a few words of advice."
MASTER: "Don't allow her to cook. That will heat her brain all the more. And keep her in
the company of others so that they may watch her."
..........
Mohini's wife entered the room and sat at one side. Sri Ramakrishna spoke to M. about
Tarak's friend.
MASTER: "Why did Tarak bring that fellow with him?"
M: "Perhaps he wanted a companion for the road. It is a long way from Calcutta; so he
brought a friend with him."
The Master suddenly addressed Mohini's wife and said: "By unnatural death one becomes
an evil spirit. Beware. Make it clear to your mind. Is this what you have come to after
hearing and seeing so much?"
Mohini was about to take his leave. He saluted Sri Ramakrishna. His wife also saluted the
Master, who stood near the north door of the room. Mohini's wife spoke to him in a
whisper.
MASTER: "Do you want to stay here?"
MOHINI'S WIFE: "Yes, I want to spend a few days with the Holy Mother at the nahabat.
May I?"
MASTER: "That will be all right. But you talk of dying. That frightens me. And the Ganges
is so near!"

M(here referred to as Mohini Mohan)'s wife stayed with The Holy Mother and had the privilege of serving Sri Ramakrishna during his last days.
How the Master's words came true! - " If the
husband is good, then through the grace of God the wife may also follow his example"- and M's wife did treat all the devotees who later on visited 'M' as her own children!
Namaskar.

Anonymous said...

For a long time, I used to wonder how tall Sri Ramana was and what his voice was like.

While all the biographies say that Sri Ramana was tall, they do not give an estimate of his height.

However, recently, in a bit of indirect way, I was able to estimate Sri Ramana's height.

This is how I went about it.

Frank Humphreys in his account says he first met Ganapati Muni and describes the Muni as being about Five feet Ten inches in height.

Next, I came across a photo of Sri Ramana and the Muni where they are standing next to each other. From the photo, it appears that Sri Ramana and the Muni were about the same height. In fact, in the photo, Sri Ramana's head is tilted a little bit, so it is even possible that he was slightly taller than the Muni.

So, I guess it would be fair to say that Sri Ramana was about Five feet Ten inches in height. This is of course, assuming that Frank Humphreys got it right as regards the Muni's height.

However, I still have not come across any description of Sri Ramana's voice. Was it low pitched, high pitched, bass, treble, baritone ?

Sri Ramana did have some engineers as his devotees e.g K.K Nambiar. It is rather strange that none of these tech savvy people thought of making a recording of Sri Ramana's voice.

I read somewhere that Sw.Vivekananda's voice was recorded in a phonograph. This was apparently done in the Mysore palace when he visited Mysore in the early 1890s. However, it appears that over the years, the sound quality has deteriorated so much, that now, nothing is audible. Again, a great pity, as Sw. Vivekananda was renowned for having a beautiful voice.

Thank you,
shiv

Ravi said...

shiv/friends,
"For a long time, I used to wonder how tall Sri Ramana was and what his voice was like."
Interesting topic.I understand that audio recording of Sri Bhagavan was disallowed in the asramam.In as much as we know that there is no instrument available to record sri Bhagavan's natural speech of silence,it is still an opportunity lost in not recording his voice for posterity.
Here is an interesting excerpt from Suri Nagamma's 'recollections of Sri Ramanasramam:

676 Recollections of Sri Ramanasramam
in praise of Bhagavan, when Doraiswami came into the hall
and sat there. He saw how Bhagavan was calling me now and
then and giving me instructions about copying the stotras and
others in Telugu. Doraiswamy appears to have observed the
paternal affection with which Bhagavan was calling me and
so when Bhagavan left the hall and when I too was about to
leave soon after, he came directly behind me unobserved and
began singing the famous Thyagaraja kirtan: “How fortunate
is Sabari? How fortunate is this Sabari!” Startled at the
unexpected singing right behind my back, I turned round
and found him looking at me smiling. I asked him why he
was singing like that. Pointing his hand towards me he said,
“Yes, Amma, I am saying how fortunate is this Sabari!
Bhagavan does not speak to us even once though we ask him
all sorts of questions. In your case, Bhagavan himself asks for
you saying, ‘Where is Nagamma?’ and speaks to you every
now and then. How lucky you are!” I naturally felt very much
elated at that.
In 1954 I shifted my permanent residence from the
Ashram to Andhra Pradesh and was coming to the Ashram
once or twice a year for a few months’ stay. On one such
occasion, perhaps in 1957, I remained in Bhagavan’s hall a
little longer than usual and with all thoughts of Bhagavan
crowding in on my mind, was going out when all of a sudden
I heard a voice from behind similar to Bhagavan’s calling,
“Where is Nagamma?” (Nagamma yedhi?). Startled at that,
I looked behind and found Devaraja Mudaliar smiling at me.
Noticing the tears that had welled up in my eyes, he said,
“Bhagavan used to call you like that, didn’t he?” Recovering
my balance of mind I replied, “Yes, Brother. What you have
said is perfectly correct. For a fleeting moment I felt it was
Bhagavan himself that was calling me. What a delusion! Be it
as it may, I have heard those soothing words once again at
least through your mouth. What a good day for me!
It was
only after hearing those words from Bhagavan that
Doraiswamy Iyer sang the song ‘How fortunate is this Sabari!’
Those good days are gone never to return,” I said. Mudaliar
also felt likewise, and shared with me my regrets, being a
fellow devotee."

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

I only said that Avvaiyar had
similar views about non co-
operating wives or husbands, when
the spouse is spiritual. It is
not superficial reading. In fact
Jnanis were more humane than any
other human being and they cared
as much for womenfolk as they did
for menfolk. When Smt. Visalakshi Ganapati Muni asked whether women could take up sannyasa, Sri Bhagavan replied in affirmative.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Anon.,

1. Many Western devotees have said
that Sri Bhagavan was quite tall for an Indian and had long fingers.

2. No recorded conversations
of Sri Bhagavan are available.
I think someone brought an old
type gramaphone recorder and the circular graphite plates to record. But this was not permitted by Sri Bhagavan. As
He taught, His Silence should be considered more eloquent than His speech.

****

Subramanian. R said...

silence is the True
Upadesa:

[From Spiritual Stories as
told by Bhagavan Ramana -
Asramam Publication - 11th
Edition, 2011:

Once a devotee came and said
that the great sages of the past
had travelled extensively preaching the Truth and thus had served the world at large. Similarly, if Sri Bhagavan were to travel thus, it would be beneficial to many. Smilingly,
Sri Bhagavan replied that His being settled in one place was also beneficial and narrated the following story:

Brahma, the Lord of Creation, one lost interest in the work of creation and thought of taking to a life of tapas. So, out of his mind he created Sanaka, Sanatkumara, Sananda and Sanatsjuta, with the intention to hand over them his job, in the course of time. They grew up and and mastered all the branches of study. Brahma then
decided to hand over them his job and to retire. Sage Narada came to know of his father's intention. Since Narada knew that his brothers were full of dispassion and fit to be initiated into the path of Self-Knowledge, he decided to wan them beforehand of Brahma's intention. On hearing this, the four brothers, who had no intention to follow the path of action, left home in search of a guru without informing their father.

They all proceeded to Vaikunta, the abode of Vishnu. There they saw Lakshmi sitting on Vishnu's couch massaging His Feet. On seeing this, they thought, "How can this family man bound by the intimate glance of his consort render us any help in learning adhyatma vidya. Look at the splendour of this place and this city! This is enough. Let us seek the help of Lord Siva."

Lord Siva, who was in Kailas with His family, knew beforehand about their coming and understood their plight. He was sure that they would be disappointed on seeing Him with a family, so taking pity on them, He decided to impart spiritual knowledge to them. The kind hearted Lord left Mount Kailas and taking the youthful form of Dakshinamurti seated Himself with Chinmudra under a banyan tree on the Northern side of Lake Manasarovar, on the way by which these disappointed devotees were returning to their homes. When they came and sat before Him, He went into Samadhi. He was in Perfect Repose. Silence prevailed. They saw Him. The effect was immediate. They fell into Samadhi and their doubts were cleared.

Silence is the true Upadesa. It is the perfect Upadesa. It is suited only for the most advanced. Others are unable to draw full inspiration from it. Therefore, they require words to explain the Truth. But Truth is beyond words. It does not admit of explanation. All that is possible to do is only to indicate it.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Anon., [shiv]

I was looking at the
Asramam Calendar for 2011, the
page of July month. There is a
photograph of Sri Bhagavan standing along with some devotees
and an attendant nearby. In spite of His head bent and looking at the ground, He appears taller than
everyone else in the photograph.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Above Orthdoxy and
Unorthodoxy:

[Sri Krishna Bhikshu's
article in Fragrant Petals
continues....]

The true command should come
from within, leading to voluntary
and not enforced, right action.
He never ordered Devaraja Mudaliar
to become a vegetarian, but when the
latter was hesitating about whether to do so or no, wondering whether
he would find the food sufficiently nutritious, and asked Sri Bhagavan's advice, Sri Bhagavan assured him
categorically that he would. Another example: once when my brother Sri Venkatesa, author of a Hindi Life of Sri Bhagavan, came to the Asramam, he was offered coffee and told hat he could drink it safely as it was Sri Bhagavan's prasad. Like many sadhakas, he did not take coffee, finding that it disturbed his equanimity, so he hesitated. Before accepting it, he asked Sri Bhagavan outright: "Am I to take this as your prasad?" Sri Bhagavan immediately replied: "No. These people want to drink coffee and so to justify themselves, they offer it first to me and then call it my prasad!"

There was still more extraordinary case in the early years of the Asramam. Some of sadhakas used to take bhang [a hallucinatory drug, a local make, sometimes used by the sadhus], and they would also offer it to Sri Bhagavan first to justify their use of it. Sri Bhagavan would accept it when offered but it had no effect on the serenity of His mind, since He had no mind to be disturbed. Once they offered some to Sri Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni also, thinking thereby to justify its use by sadhakas, since Sri Bhagavan was not a sadhaka but a mukta. Sri Ganapati Muni saw through their trick, however, and was about to curse them for their audacity, but the motherly spirit awoke in his wife, who was present on the occasion, and she induced him to leave the scene, and thus the miscreants escaped punishment.

Two fact may be deduced from these examples: one that adventitious aids to sadhana, such as pure and sattvic food are very important and not to be despised or neglected; the other, that Sri Bhagavan did not adhere rigidly to the rules Himself or enforce them strictly in His Asramam, but approved of people who did follow them. In fact, He disapproved of both extremes, of exaggerated formalism on the one hand and hedonistic laxity on the other. Indeed, on one occasion, when Sri Bhagavan was asked to define the true Brahmin, he included among the qualifications, the ability to cook one's own food so that one would not have to break one's caste dharma when wandering in search of knowledge.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

The Silent Power - Asramam Publications: Reprint 2009:

Maurice Frydman:

Just six months after I came to India,
I was left alone and had no friend. The person whom I loved, died and I had nothing to attract in life.

Quite accidentally, just for fun, I dropped in at Tiruvannamalai. I went direct to the Swami but I was ordered out by His disciples as I had not taken off my shoes.

After bathing and other preparations, I went again to the Hall and remained there with the Maharshi, for two hours.

Then I had understood that I had met someone, the likes of whom I had never met before.

I did not then know what was meant by words like Maharshi and Bhagavan. I had not preconceived ideas and yet I felt that there was something extraordinary in that man.

I was told about His teachings but they were far too high for me. I did not understand what they meant but I felt a strong and lasting affection for Him. I was alone in India and I attached myself to Him just as a homeless dog would to his master.

Afterwards, whenever I felt worried, I used to go to Arunachala, and sit in His Presence. In the early days, I would be asking questions, but later when I began to visit Him more and more, the discussion with Him grew less and less.

Then I began to visit Him almost every month. [He was in Bangalore at that time, running a factory]. I knew no sadhana or dhyana. I would simply sit in His Presence. To my questions, Sri Maharshi would say: "Find out who you are." I could not make out anything but all the same I felt happy.

Slowly some change came in me. Just as the egg grows and hatches only with the aid of the warmth of the mother, I was also getting into shape slowly and steadily in His Presence.

My mind became more quiet than before. Previously it was unhappy and never satisfied. Now a kind of security and peace began to be felt spontaneously.

I felt that Sri Maharshi was coming nearer and nearer, as time passed. Afterwards, I used to think of Him whenever I felt unhappy. He used to appear before me and ask if I have not committed any sin. If I had erred or sinned, He used to hide Himself for a time but later appear and reply.

His affection was always there and as fire melts ice so His affection made my worries melt.

*****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian,
"SaRRu eRu maaRai irunthaal, kooRamal Sannyasm koL."
I doubt whether this can be attributed to avvaiyar-for one thing that this is not her pure Tamil style nor a wise one like her would have advised thus.
The superficiality that I have alluded to is to take verbatim the statement of Sri Ramakrishna on giving up the ungodly wife-this is not the punch line.It is said in order to emphasize that nothing should be allowed to stand in the way in seeking God.
This is like Tirumoolar's saying-"Asai aRumin,Asai aRumin EsanodAyinum Asai aRumin"
"Cut off desire,cutoff desire:even if it be for God(Esa),cut off desire"
This cannot be interpreted that Tirumoolar advocated giving up desire for God,as some mistakenly do(Those who fancy the path of Jnana!).He is only emphasizing that Desires have to be given up.

Namaskar.

David Godman said...

shiv

The best description of Bhagavan's speech comes, in my opinion, from an account by G. V. Subbaramayya. I found it in an old copy of The Call Divine and included it in the Subbaramayya chapter in the Power of the Presence, part three:

Sri Bhagavan’s manner of speaking was itself unique. His normal state was silence. He spoke so little, casual visitors who only saw him for a short while wondered whether he ever spoke. To put questions to him and to elicit his replies was an art in itself that required an unusual exercise in self-control. A sincere doubt, an earnest question submitted to him never went without an answer, though sometimes his silence itself was the best answer to particular questions. A questioner needed to be able to wait patiently. To have the maximum chance of receiving a good answer, you had to put your question simply and briefly. Then you had to remain quiet and attentive. Sri Bhagavan would take his time and then begin slowly and haltingly to speak. As his speech continued, it would gather momentum. It would be like a drizzle gradually strengthening into a shower. Sometimes it might go on for hours together, holding the audience spellbound. But throughout the talk you had to keep completely still and not butt in with counter remarks. Any interruption from you would break the thread of his discourse and he would at once resume silence. He would never enter into a discussion, nor would he argue with anyone. The fact was, what he spoke was not a view or an opinion but the direct emanation of light from within that manifested as words in order to dispel the darkness of ignorance. The whole purpose of his reply was to make you turn inward, to make you see the light of truth within yourself.

Subramanian. R said...

Blossoms of Blessings: Sri V. Ganesan:
[From his book Direct Teaching of Bhagavan Ramana, Asramam Publication -
Reprint 2011:

"Look, the Self is only Be-ing, not being this or that. It is simply Being. Be -- and there is end of the ignorance. Enquire for whom is the ignorance. The ego rises when you wake from sleep. Realize your pure Be-ing. Let there be no confusion with the body. The body is the result of thoughts. Thoughts will play as usual, but you will not be affected. You were not concerned with the body when asleep. So you can always remain."

- Talks No. 46

Maharshi: Can the world exist without someone to perceive it? Which is prior? The Being-Consciousness or the rising- consciousness? The Being-Consciousness is always there, eternal and pure. The rising-consciousness rises forth and disappears. It is transient.

- Talks No. 53

Mr. Ramamurthi: How to know the Real-I as distinct from the 'false-I'?

Maharshi: Is there anyone who is not aware of himself? Each one knows, but yet does not know, the Self. A strange paradox. The Master added later, "If the enquiry is made whether the mind exists, it will be found that mind does not exist. That is control of mind. Otherwise, if the mind is taken to exist and one seeks to control it, it amounts to mind controlling the mind, just likke a thief turning out to be a policeman to catch the thief, i.e himself. Mind persists in that way alone, but eludes itself."

- Talks No. 43

Devotee: What is the practice?

Maharshi: Constant search for "I", the source of the ego. Find out 'Who am I?' The pure 'I' is the Reality, the Absolute Existence-Consciousness-Bliss. When That is forgotten, all miseries crop up; when that is held fast, the miseries do not affect the person.

- Talks No. 17

"Is a Master necessary for realization?" Mrs. Piggot asked first.

Maharshi: The realization is the result of the Master's Grace more than teaching, lectures, meditation, etc., They are only secondary aids, whereas the former is the primary and the essential cause.

- Talks No. 13

Maharshi: "The power which created you has created the world. If it can take care of you, it can similarly take care of the world also."

- Talks No. 20

Maharshi: An examination of the ephemeral nature of external phenomena leads to Vairagya. Hence enquiry [vichara] is the first and foremost step to be taken. When vichara continues automatically, it results in a contempt for wealth, fame, ease, pleasure, etc.,
The "I" thought becomes clearer for inspection. The source of the "I" is the Heart -- the final goal. If however, the aspirant is not temperamentally suited to Vichara Marga [to the introspective analytical method], he must develop bhakti [devotion] to an idea -- may be God, Guru, humanity in general, ethical laws, or even the idea of beauty. When one of these takes possession of the individual, other attachments grow weaker, i.e. dispassion [Vairagya] develops. Attachment for the ideal simultaneously grows and finally holds the field. Thus ekagrata [concentration] grows simultaneously and impercetibly --
with or without visions and direct aids.

- Talks No. 27

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

There are many Avvaiyars in Tamizh
literature. One who was during Pari
VaLLal's time etc., The Tamizh
Tanippadal Tirattu, quotes this as one from Avvaiyar.

I did not see any punch line or otherwise. I only said that there was a similar expression of thought from Avvaiyar.

****

Ravi said...

David/Friends,
Interesting to read what G. V. Subbaramayya has said about Sri Bhagavan fielding questions.Yet Sri Bhagavan not only did that but also interacted at a human level with children,monkeys,etc.He also freely conversed with devotees and the way he used to narrate stories about saints are wonderfully captured by Suri Nagamma and Sri T K Sundaresa iyer,How he used to modulate his voice to suit the different characters in the story!-and it is this 'voice' of Sri Bhagavan that one wonders about,not 'how' he 'responded'.

Namaskar.

Anonymous said...

David!!

New post please! Also, you had previously mentioned about collecting information on Maurice Frydman. Any updates on that?

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Ramana Sannidhi MuRai:

The first part of the songs as sung
by Ramananjali Group came to me by
courier, along with a book that contained verses and raga, tala notations. I listened to the first one Sri Ramana Puranam. It runs for about 75 minutes and has been chanted in Odhuvar style by one male singer and two female singers. Listening to it was a mind stopping experience. A Kalivenba running to 540 lines is a wonderful creation, I should say, by Muruganar. As I was listening, I could recollect the stories of Markandeya, Kannappar, the Hunter, and the famous episode in Kenopanishad, when the respective lines were chanted. The CD is a treasure along with a neatly printed book to follow the same. Some decads have been sung in full and in some other cases, two or three verses have been sung. The first part ends with Neethal ViNNappam. (63). The second CD, I am told, will be released soon. Those who can afford 75 minutes of calm listening, should listen to it either in the early morning or in night [with TV off] and gain this great experience, at least once in a while. Many lines speak about the core of Sri Bhagavan's teachings, from Who am I? and ULLadu NaRpadu.

******

Subramanian. R said...

Spiritual Stories as told by Bhagavan
Ramana Maharshi - Asramam Publications: 11th edition - 2010:

ENTER THE HEART:

A devotee who had suddenly lost his only son came to Sri Bhagavan in a state of acute grief, seeking relief. He asked a few questions in which his grief was evident. Sri Bhagavan, as usual, asked him to enquire into the Self and find out who is grieving. The devotee was not satisfied, Sri Bhagavan, then said, "All right, I will tell you a story from Vichara Sagaram. Listen."

Two youngsters by name Rama and Krishna, told their respective parents that they would go to foreign countries to prosecute further studies and then earn a lot of money. After some time, one of them died suddenly. The other studied well, earned and a lot and was living happily. Some time later, the one that was alive requested a merchant who was going to his native place to tell his father that he was wealthy and happy and that the other boy who had come with him had passed away. Instead of passing on the information correctly, the merchant told the father of the person who was alive, that his son was dead, and the father of the person that was dead, that his son had earned a lot of money and was living happily.

The parents of the person that was actually dead, were happy in the thought that their son would come back after some time, while the parents of the person who was alive, but was reported to be dead, were in great grief. In fact, neither of them saw their son but they were experiencing happiness or grief according to the reports they received. That is all. We too are similarly situated. We believe all sorts of things that the mind tells us and get deluded into thinking that what exists does not exist and that who does not exist, exists. If we do not believe the mind but enter the Heart and see the son that is inside, there is no need to see the children outside.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

The Silent Power: Asramam Publication:
Reprint - 2009:

The talks of Pryns Hopkins:

In as much as, India is notoriously the most metaphysically minded of all countries, it was natural that I should seek discussions in this field.

Ever since I had read Paul Brunton's A Search in Secret India, I had been keen to visit Ramana Maharshi, the sage whom Brunton found most impressive of all those he sought out. Soon after my arrival at His Asramam, I bade one of the two men who mainly ministered to Him to inquire whether I might ask two questions. Accordingly, I was requested to take my seat in front of the group of visitors and an interpreter sat next to me [Although Maharshi usually gets queries directly through English] and was invited to present my question.

The first of these questions was: "If it is true that all the objective world owes its existence to the go, then how can that ego ever have the experience of surprise as it does, for example, when we stub our toe on an unseen obstacle?"

Sri Bhagavan answered, 'that the ego is not to be thought of as antecedent to the world of phenomena, but both rise or fall together. Neither is more real than the other, only the non empirical Self is more real. By reflecting on the true nature of the Self, one comes at length to undermine the ego and at the same time, material obstacle and stubbed toe are equally unreal, and to dwell in the true reality which is beyond them all.'

He then went on to outline that we only know the object at all through sensations derived from it remotely. Moreover, that physicists had now shown that in place of what we thought to be a solid object, there are only dancing electrons and protons.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Talks of Mr. Hopkins - continues...
[From The Silent Power]:

I replied that while we had, indeed, direct knowledge only of sensations, we know less, for all that knowledge about the objects which gave rise to the sensations, about which knowledge was checked continually by making predictions, acting on them, and seeing them verified or disproved.
Furthermore [here I went on to my second query], "If the outer phenomena which I think I perceive have no reality apart from my ego, how is is that someone else also perceived them? For example not only do I lift my foot higher to avoid tripping over that stool yonder, but you also raise your foot higher to avoid tripping over it too. Is it by a mere coincidence that each of us independently has come to the conclusion that a stool is there?"

Sri Maharshi replied that the stool and our two egos were created by one another mutually. While one is asleep, one may dream of a stool and of persons who avoided tripping over it, just as persons in waking life did, yet did that prove that the dream stool is any more real. And so we had it back and forth for an hour, with the gathering very amused, for all Hindus seem to enjoy a metaphysical contest.

During that afternoon's darshan, I again had the privilege of an hour's talk with Maharshi Himself. Observing that He had given orders to place a dish of food for His peacock, I asked "When I return to America would it be good to busy myself with disseminating your books to the people just as you offer this food to the peacocks?" He laughed and answered that if I thought it good, it would be good, but otherwise not. I asked, whether, quite apart from whatever I thought, it wasn't useful to have pointed out a way to those who were ripe for a new outlook. He countered with "Who thinks they are ready?"

The Maharshi went on to say that the essential thing is to divorce our sense of self from what our ego and our body are feeling or doing. We should think "Feelings are going on, this body is acting in such and such a manner", but never "I feel, I act." What the body craves or does is not our affair.

I then asked, "Have we then no responsibility at all for the behaviour of our ego?"

He replied: "None at all. Let it go its own way like an automaton."

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Mr. Hopkins talks with Sri Bhagavan:
[From The Silent Power] continues....

"But", I objected, "you have told us that all the animal propensities are attributes of the ego. If when a man
attains jivanmukti he ceases to feel responsibility for the behaviour of his ego and body, won't they run amok completely?" I illustrated my point with the story of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

The Maharshi replied: "When you have attained jivanmukti, you will know the answer to those questions. Your task now is not to worry about them but to know the Self."

But I am forced to doubt the whole theory unless it explains away this discrepancy. "Here before us is the Maharshi who has attained jivanmukti, and so withdrawn from all responsibility for the conduct of the ego and the body we see before us. But though He declares them to be the seat of all evil propensities, His ego and body continue to behave quite decorously instead of running wild. This forces me to suspect that something in hypothesis is incorrect."

He answered, "Let the Maharshi deal with that problem if it arises and let Mr. Hopkins deal with who is Mr. Hopkins."

Concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Above Orthodoxy and Unorthodoxy:

{From Fragrant Petals: Krishna
Bhikshu} - continues...

In a general way His mode of life did, after all, conform with the pattern of the sastras. He would rise with the calling of the birds as prescribed by them. He would hear the early morning chanting of the Vedas, take His bath, etc., and then engage in His normal routine activities. The shades of evening would find Him absorbed in contemplation of the Self, again as laid down by the sastras. He neither over-ate nor starved. He followed the Gita precept about keeping a proper diet, His waking time following a proper mode of life, sleeping properly and spending His waking time properly. Srimad Bhagavata devotes a full canto to the daily routine followed by Sri Krishna as a modes for his clansmen. When they failed to follow it and took to drunkenness, a catastrophe ensued leading to their complete extermination. But all these rules of life are really advice given to one whose sincere purpose in life is the quest for liberation. How many of us can truthfully lay our hands on our hearts and assert tha this really is our goal in life? Sadhana for many of us is no more than a hobby or a secondary interest. Times have indeed changed since the Seers laid down the rules of life. Insofar as a pleasurable worldly life is now all the purushartha we follow, we can indeed dismiss them as primitives and dispense with their guidance.

The brunt of the modernist attack is against the rules of varna dharma, commonly called as caste-system. And to gladden the hearts of modernists it must be admitted that Sri Bhagavan did not follow the social code laid down by the sastras, since He allowed non-Brahmins, untouchables and foreigners free access to Him and sponsored the daily chanting of the Vedas with all sitting shoulder to shoulder listening to them. But He knew what He was doing. Those who came to Him were His people, independent of the accident of birth. And, as I mentioned above in connection with the incident of the dining hall, He Himself belonged to no caste and could not be bound by caste rules [ati-varnasrami].

contd.,

hey jude said...

I was recently reading Ramesh Balsekar's version of Upadesa Saram, translated by his disciple Shirish Murthy. I wasn't impressed with the third verse and thought it just can't be an acceptable version. "Accepting and understanding that God has created the world for His sport and God is playing the lila through billions of body-mind organisms, is better than chanting the sacred names of the Lord, which in turn is superior to worshipping the image of the Lord with body, mind and speech."

Subramanian. R said...

Dear hey jude,

Is it the third verse of Upadesa Saram, [Upadesa Undiyar]? I think,
it is not.

Subramanian. R said...

Beyond Orthodoxy and Unorthodoxy:

[From Krishna Bhikshu's article -
Fragrant Petals ] continues....

Indeed He actually this once in a deposition He made to a commission
that came from a law court to interview Him in connection with a fraudulent claim some one had made to ownership of the Asramam. Asked about caste, He asserted that He was 'atiasrami', that is outside the framework of the four varnas and four asramas or stages of life. Indeed, one could say that there was no individual called Ramana. And it is noteworthy that He never signed His name. There was no individual to sign. The individual Ramana had become extinct and merged in the Universal. Therefore, it is
futile to ask whether we, as individuals, can model ourselves on Him.

There is a warning and a paradox in this. He was the highest model of rectitude and wisdom, and yet we cannot model our personal and social conduct entirely on Him, since we are seekers and He was not, and we are therefore bound by obligations from which He had become free. He was and is the Brahman and had therefore nothing to achieve and acquired no discipline as an aid to achievement.

This paradox is explained in Srimad
Bhagavatam in a warning given by
Sukadeva to Parikshit:

"Transgression of the normal dharma by the spiritually perfect is an exception and they are too eminent for it to bring about their downfall. Fire devours everything but is not said to be polluted thereby. One who is not at that final eminence should not even dream of doing such things. If he is obstinate enough to try, he will perish."


CONCLUDED.

David Godman said...

Hey Jude

Verse three says, 'Desireless action [nishkamya karma] dedicated to God will purify the mind, and it will show the way to liberation'.

Though Bhagavan grades sadhanas in subsequent verses, there is no verse in the text that can be properly interpreted in the way that translation does.

Ravi said...

heyjude,
The one you have mentioned is verse 5 of upadesa undiyar,where Sri Bhagavan expounds what is 'isa puja'.
In verse 4,he talks about puja(murthy puja-a specific form),japa(chanting a specific name)and Dhyana.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

As David said that what hey jude mentioned as Verse 3 of Upadesa Saram, is not a direct translation of any single verse of Upadesa Saram.

Verse 3 reads:

Disinterested action
Surrendered to the Lord
Purifies the mind and points
The way to moksha.

Verse 4 reads:

This is certain;
Worship, praise and meditation,
Being work of body, speech and mind,
Are steps for orderly ascent.

Verse 5 reads:

Ether, fire, air, water, earth,
Sun, moon, and living beings
Worship of these
Regarded all as forms of His
Is perfect worship of the Lord.

[tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan]

Sri Bhagavan has not stated in
any one of the above three verses, that "God has created the world as his sport, and God is playing his lila etc.,"

****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian,
"Ether, fire, air, water, earth,
Sun, moon, and living beings"
Where did Sri Bhagavan mention all these things in verse 5.This is only false interpretion.Why not add jupiter,saturn and other Planets as well!!!???
This is how the Tamil undhiyAr goes:
"eN uru yAvum iRai uru Am" ena
eNNi vazhipadal-undhEE paRa
Esan naRpoosai undhEE paRa.

The Straight forward meaning is:
"All forms that (are product)of thought are forms of the Divine"-To think(consider)and worship Thus-
is Commendable worship of isa(iswara).

Balasekar has translated more or less like this.

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"The bhakta sees that He who is God has also become
maya. Again, He Himself has become the universe and all its living beings."

Namaskar.

Anonymous said...

Recently, I thinking about Sri Ramakrishna's devotion to Kali and Sri Ramana's devotion to Arunachala.

My mind wandered a little bit and I then imagined a quarrel between Kali and Arunachala over their sons - Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Ramana.

The quarrel goes like this.

Kali to Arunachala - "A fine husband you are ! You have enticed away all my sons "

Arunachala - "Why ? What is it I have done now ?"

Kali - "Look at my son - Ramana. He was with me at Madurai. And then you enticed him away to Tiruvannamalai. He left Madurai saying - 'I have in search of my Father left......' What about me ? Why coudn't he say - 'I have in search of my Mother left....' ?.

Not only that. When I asked him to come back, he talked some high sounding philosophy to me - 'the Ordainer controls the fate.......blah... blah'. As if I don't know all that.

He wrote all those songs in praise of you and nothing in praise of me.

It was the same with that Seshadri. He was with me in Kanchi. He left me and ran away to you.

And what about Jesus - 'I and my Father are one'. Bah ! Why coudn't he say - 'I and my Mother are one'?

Here Kali pauses for breath and Aruanchala seizes the opportunity to have a word.(Men must wait for their womenfolk to pause for breath; then only can they squeeze in a word before the next onslaught begins)

Arunachala - "Fine, I accept your arguments about my sons - Jesus, Ramana and Seshadri. But what about your son - Ramakrishna. You wrapped you him around your finger so much, that he looked upon his own wife (Sarada) as yourself. Then, what about your other sons - Ramprasad, Muthuswamy Dikshitar, Shyama Sastri. All of them clung to your pallu and never cared to even look at me. All of them sang in praise of you only. All of them - Mamma's boys "!

Kali (a little pacified now) and smiling complacently -"Yes, you are right about Ramakrishna and others. In their case, I ensured that they were always with me and resisted all your tricks and blandishments".

Arunachala (in a further bid to mollify her) now says - "And it is simply not true that Ramana ignored you and did not sing songs in your paise".

Kali in surpise - "When did he ever sing about me ?"

Arunachala - "When Ganapati Muni sang the Uma Sahsranamam, did not both the Muni and Ramana himself confirm that the final 300 verses or so were inspired by Ramana ? The Muni was only a mouthpiece when it came to those 300 verses and Ramana was the real author.

Not only that. Did not Ramana give liberation to both his biological mother and the cow Lakshmi (both of them belonging to the female sex).

And he was the first enlightened person to clearly, un-equivocally, un-ambigiously state that when it comes to Spiritual practices - Women have the same rights as Men do. Even the Buddha hesitated before finally accepting women in his Sangha.

So you see, Ramana was if anything, more partial towards his female devotees (your daughters) than his male devotees (my sons).

Kali now completely mollified, goes off in search of Ramana, Ramakrishna, Seshadri and her other sons and Arunachala heaves a sigh of relief.

He has succesfully averted a crisis. But he full well knows that Kali will be back. Tomorrow is another day ! Watch this space.

Thank you,
shiv

P.S - I know both Muthuswamy Dikshitar and Shyama Sastri sang in praise of the Mother. Am not sure if they sang any krithis on Shiva. So, apologies, if I have taken a few liberties with facts.

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"There are three kinds of devotees: superior, mediocre, and inferior. The
inferior devotee says, 'God is out there.' According to him God is different from His
creation. The mediocre devotee says: 'God is the Antaryami, the Inner Guide. God dwells in
everyone's heart. The mediocre devotee sees God in the heart. But the superior devotee sees
that God alone has become everything; He alone has become the twenty-four cosmic
principles. He finds that everything, above and below, is filled with God."
Namaskar.

Anonymous said...

Folks,
I never understood this Siva-Parvathi concept.A man has his Ego and Energy and so does his wife has her own Ego and her Energy.If Parvathi is Siva's Energy how can they be seperate.Can we seperate the wave's energy from the Wave.We cant even imagine it.So what is this Kaali-Siva concept about?Then there is Lalitha in Sri Vidya and the Cartoon designer in Bhrahmaanda Puraanam after having conceived Lalitha and various retinue; tried to badly retro-fit it with Hindu mythology by making connection between Lalitha and Siva.It is strange to see what role does Vishnu the Sustainer of the Universe have vis-a-vis Lalitha.Then to topup the confusion Madhwa comes and says after Vishu and Brahma Vaayu is next in importnace and then comes Demi-gods like Rudra.We know Siva and Paarvathi are regarded as the First couple.In some other literature there is also ten-aspects of Siva where Vishnu is forgotten totally.I think the whole thing is a mess with each writer creating his own caricatures over the ages and sometimes badly retrofitting them with existing Mythology and in the end the whole things becomes Bogus and silly.Then we have ISKCON cult saying Vishnu is the expansion of Krishna and not the other way round.Each one writes their own Puraana to substantiate.If there is Brahma Sutra then some one comes up with Brahma Samhita.In the end everything becomes so silly and utter rubbish.To trash this whole rubbish someone creates Brahmo Samaaj.This game never ends.

Regards,
-Z

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

ENNuru - is taken as to mean:

1. 8 forms - which as per Sri Sankara is only the eight forms mentioned in the translation. Sri Sankara calls it as Ashta moortham in Sri Dakshinamurty Stotram and the commentators have mentioned only the said eight.

2. from "ENNam" - thought -
All forms that are thought of.
This can include any form as form
of God, as the seeker thinks.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Spiritual Stories as told by Bhagavan
Ramana - Asramam Publication - 11th edition - 2010:

TWENTY FOUR GURUS:

A King was passing though a forest in all pomp and pageantry, with his army and retinue behind him. He came across a man with not even a cod-piece on, lying on the ground, with one leg cocked over the other. He was laughing away, apparently supremely happy, contented with himself and all the world. The king was struck with the man's happy state and sent for him. But when the king's men approached the nude ascetic and delivered the king's message, he took absolutely no notice and continue in his ascetic bliss. On being told of this, the king himself went to the man and even then the man took no notice. Thereupon, it struck the king that this must be no common man, and said, 'Swami, you are evidently supremely happy. May we know what is the secret of such happiness and from which guru you learned it?' Thereupon the ascetic told the king, "I have had twenty four gurus. Everything, this body, the earth, the birds, some instruments, some persons, all have taught me." All the things in the world may be classed as either good or bad. The good taught him what he must seek. Similarly, the bad taught him what he must avoid.

The ascetic was Dattatreya, the avadhuta.

****

Subramanian. R said...

The Silent Power: Asramam Publications: 2009 Reprint:

M.S. NAGARAJAN:

Sri Bhagavan had a unique method of expounding profound truths with illustrations taken from everyday life. His words were never premeditated but came spontaneously,
they were also apt, as the following incident will show:

It was in 1932, I think, when I was in charge of the puja at the Mother's shrine, that a devotee known as P.W.D. Ramaswami Iyer arranged for a special food offering of pongal [sweet rice pudding] and vadai [ a small round cake of blackgram fried in oil]. They were to be offered at the time of ushah puja [puja conducted before day break in the Dhanus month [December-January]. I had many things to do and there was no one to help me. So I got up very early, at about half past three, and after taking my bath in the Pali Tirtham, removed the old flowers from the shrine, swept and cleaned the floor and lit two fires, over one of which I placed the pot of rice for the pongal and over the other the pan of oil for the vadai. I then sat down to grind the black gram which I had soaked in water previously. By the time, the dough was ready, the oil was sufficiently hot. I had not actually prepared vadai previously at any time. But I took some dough and tried to spread it out on the leaf in the form of a neat round vadai as I had seen others do, but it would not come out properly. I tried again and again but it was of no use. I then got annoyed and threw the dough in disgust back into the vessel. The next moment I noticed some movement behind me. When I turned around I saw, to my consternation, Sri Bhagavan standing behind me and watching my efforts to make vadai. I was naturally agitated but He said quietly, "It doesn't matter. You have added too much water while grinding the black gram. Now make round balls of the dough and fry them. They will then be bondas!" I did accordingly.

When the bondas were served to the devotees at breakfast, as usual, Ramaswami Iyer said to me angrily, "Look here. Did I not ask you to prepare vadai? Then why have you made bondas?"

I was afraid to say anything and so merely looked at Sri Bhagavan, who immediately turned to Ramaswami Iyer and said, "What does it matter? If the cakes are flat and circular they are vadais. If spherical, bondas. The stuff is the same and the taste is the same. Only names and forms are different. Eat the prasadam [food offered to a deity] and don't make a fuss."

Everyone was astonished at the ready and apt reply of Sri Bhagavan. Ramaswami Iyer could not contain his joy! He exclaimed, "Wonderful, wonderful!" Later in the day, when he saw me, he said, "I say, you are a lucky fellow. Sri Bhagavan Himself is supporting you."

The world consists of names and forms. These are naturally many, but what lies behind them is one and the same. Names and forms are not real although, we think that they are. Brahman which underlies them is real, but we forget it. What wisdom lay in Sri Bhagavan's words!


*****

Subramanian. R said...

Blossoms of Blessings: V. Ganesan -
Direct Teaching of Bhagavan Ramana:
2nd edition 2011: Asramam Publication:

Devotee: How to destroy the mind?

Maharshi: Seek the mind. On being sought, it will disappear.

Devotee: I do not understand.

Maharshi: The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. The thoughts arise because there is a thinker. The thinker is the ego. The ego, if sought, will vanish automatically. The ego and the mind are the same. The ego is the root thought from which all other thoughts arise.

Devotee: How to seek the mind?

Maharshi: Dive within. You are now aware that the mind rises up from within. So sink within and seek.

Devotee: I do not yet understand how it is to be done.

Maharshi: You are practicing breath-control. Mechanical breath control will not lead to the goal. It is only an aid. While doing it mechanically, take care to be alert in mind and remember the 'I'-thought and seek its Source. Then you will find that where breath sinks, there 'I' thought arises. They sink and arise together. The 'I'-thought also will sink along with the breath. Simultaneously, another luminous and infinite 'I-I' will become manifest, which will be continuous and unbroken. That is the goal. It goes by different names -- God, Self, Kundalini Sakti, Consciousness, Yoga, Bhakti Jnana etc.,

Devotee: Not clear yet.

Maharshi: When the attempt is made, it will itself take you to the goal.

-- Talks No. 195.

Devotee: Is solitude helpful for practice?

Maharshi: What do you mean by solitude?

Devotee: To keep away from others.

Maharshi: Why should it be done? It is actuated only by fear. Even in solitude there is fear of intrusion by others and of solitude being spoilt. Moreover, how are thoughts to be erased in solitude? Should it not be done in the present environment?

Devotee: But the mind is distracted now.

Maharshi: Why do you let go the mind? Solitude amounts to making the mind still. This can be done in a crowd too. Solitude cannot efface one's thoughts. Practice does it. The same practice can be made here too.

- Talks No. 156


contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Swami Shantananda Puri -

Swami Shantananda Puri was having his education between 1943-47 in Tiruchirapalli. But nobody in his family spoke of Sri Bhagavan, nor visited Him. He then went to Himalayas and did tapas and had Sri Swami Purushottamananda Puri Maharaj as his guru. He was initiated by his guru and got the diksha name also. He became a scholar par excellence in
Vedic scripures as well as Puranic texts there.

He first heard of Sri Bhagavan only in 1952, when he was in Meerut [U.P]. In mid 1952, he came to Tiruvannamalai and was only chanting Sri Lalita Sahasranamam in Mother's Temple day in and day out. He meant Kunju Swami there and learned in details about Sri Bhagavan.

His second visit was only in 1989. Again he went to Tiruvannamalai in 1993 and spent about six months visiting the Asramam but staying in one Athithi Ashram. Then he went back. In 1995, he had an inner call, when he was at Nadiad, Gujarat where Sri Bhagavan told him - You shall come to me.

When he went back to the Asramam, the Asramam authorities gave him permission to do sadhana in Sri Bhagavan's presence for one year and he was permitted to stay in one of their guest rooms and eat there also. The President of the Asramam, then met him and told him that he can stay 6 months in a year in the Asramam as their guest.

Just before 1996, when the Centenary of the Advent Souvenir was to be issued, the Asramam authorities asked him to contribute
an article for the Souvenir. He was nervous and went back to his guest room thinking about it. Sri Natesan the disciple of Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni came to him for a chat and finding him in distress, asked him the reasons. When he explained, Natesan said: No one has written a Suprabhatam for Sri Bhagavan. Why don't you try that?
And give it as your contribution to the Souvenir? Natesan also gave him important details about Sri Bhagavan's life.

That night, meditating upon Sri Bhagavan, with a pen and papers beside him, he requested Him to help him out. Words started flowing in Sanskrit and he completed about 17/18 slokas. He had a feeling that Sri Bhagavan was dictating him the verses and he was only a stenographer. Next night also, he sat for meditation, and again Sri Bhagavan helped him and he completed the remaining 20+ verses.

The President on seeing the work appreciated him and it was included in the Souvenir. A few years later, Ambika Kameshwar of Ramananjali Group, Bangalore, sang the Suprabhtam and a CD was made.

Swami is even now allowed to stay in the Asramam for 6 months in a year, and with permission to eat there. He stays in Room No. A1 of Korangu Thottam guest house compound. He has written the following works connected with Sri Bhagavan:

1. Devi Kalottaram commentary.

2. Gita Saram - Bhagavan's work of select 42 verses of Bhagavad Gita and giving suitable quotes from Talks and other works related to Sri Bhagavan.

At the request of Kanchi Mahaswami, he had dug out Siva Sahasranamam, from Linga Puranam, [not a popular one; what is more popular is from Mahabharata]. He has published it with meaning in Sanskrit, English and Tamizh.

I met Swami during my last visit to Asramam in June.


*****

hey jude said...

David, Ravi, Subramanian and friends, Thanks for the input. It's best dilettante's not play with Upadesa Saram.

Subramanian. R said...

Blossoms of Blessings: Sri. V.
Ganesan - From Direct Teaching of
Bhagavan Ramana: continues....

Maharshi: How do you meditate?

Devotee: I begin to ask myself "Who am I?", eliminate body as not 'I', the breath as not 'I', the mind as not 'I'.
And I am not able to proceed further.

Maharshi: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention this process only, to guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed out. Hence, this intellectual process.

You see, the one who eliminates all the not-I cannot eliminate the 'I'. To say 'I am not this', or 'I am not that' there must be the 'I'. This 'I' is only the ego or the I-thought.
After the rising up of this I-thought, all other thoughts arise. The 'I'-thought therefore the root thought. If the root is pulled out, all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore, seek the root 'I', question yourself 'Who am I?' Find out its Source. Then all these will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever.

Devotee: How to do it?

Maharshi: The 'I' is always there -- in deep sleep, in dream, and in wakefulness. The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. There is always the feeling of 'I'. Otherwise, do you deny your existence? You do not. You say 'I am". Find out who is.

Devotee: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. How to eliminate this wrong 'I'?

Maharshi: You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? -- All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it.

Devotee: If 'I' am always here and now, why do I not feel so?

Maharshi: That is it. Who says it is not felt? Does the real 'I' say or the false 'I'? Examine it. You will find it is the wrong 'I'. The wrong 'I' is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true 'I' may not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realized is the obstruction to realization. In fact, it is already realized. There is nothing more to be realized. Otherwise, the realization will be new. It has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. Whatever is born will also die. If realization be not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now known due to obstruction. It is that we seek. All that we need is to remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so, because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this ignorance and all will be well.

The ignorance is identical with the 'I' thought. Find its Source, and it will vanish.

The 'I thought is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up simultaneously with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The body-consciousness is the wrong 'I'. Give up this body-consciousness. It is done by seeking the source of 'I'. The body does not say 'I am'. It is you who say, 'I am the body!' Find out who this 'I' is. Seeking its source, it will vanish.

- Talks No. 197.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

My Reminiscences: N. Balarama Reddy:
[Asramam Publication, 2nd edition - 2008.

The State of a Jnani:

Sri Bhagavan once remarked, referring to Himself, "In this state, it as difficult to think a thought, as it is for those in bondage to be without thoughts."

I also remember Him telling us, "You ask me questions and I reply and talk to you. If you do not speak or do anything, I am automatically drawn within, and where I am, I do not know."

This statement is difficult for us to comprehend. One winter Sri Bhagavan was sitting on His couch. While picking up a shawl and wrapping it around Himself, He remarked, "They say I gained realization in twenty eight minutes, or half an hour. How can they say that? It took just a
moment. But why even a moment? Where is the question of time at all?"

I then asked Sri Bhagavan, if there was ever any change in His relization after His experience in Madurai. He said, "No. If there is a change, it is not realization."

How He managed to remain in that unbroken state of universal awareness and still function in a limited, physical form remains a mystery. We cannot understand that state. In spite of His exalted state, He interacted with us at our level. He took considerable interest in the functioning of the Asramam and the accommodation of visitors. This, no doubt, was a simple act of grace on His part, for what need did He have for all of this?

Once a princely family of India, was visiting the Asramam. It was commonly known that in spite of their high social position, they were having financial difficulties. After they had visited for a few days, and were preparing to leave, Sri Bhagavan sent word to the Office that no one should ask them to donate anything to the Asramam.

On another occasion, there was a French visitor named Jean Herbert, who had written several books on India, its holy men, and ashrams etc., I saw him during his second visit to the Asramam. He requested the publication rights of all the Asramam literature, as he planned on using this material in his books. The Asramam authorities were at first enthusiastic about books being published in the West on Sri Bhagavan and His teachings. I told Sri Bhagavan that Jean Herbert had aloo requested similar permission from Aurobindo Ashram, but they decided not to give it. Perhaps they felt he would exploit Aurobindo's writings.

Sri Bhagavan asked me to go to the Office and explain it to them. I did and the permission was withheld.

In this way, I observed Sri Bhagavan taking special interest in the affairs of the Asramam and, at times, personally directing them. It might not always have been so apparent as in these two cases, but it was, no doubt, forthcoming.

*****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/friends,
The 'Ashta murti' referred to by Sri Sankara in Dakshinamurthy stotra(I think it is verse 9) and sri Bhagavan (Verse 5 of upadesa sAram in Sanskrit)should have a deeper significance and must be based on Vedic origins.
I intuitied the moon as referring to 'Manas'(mind) and 'Sun'(Surya)as 'Intellect' but this may well be another 'Interpretation' if it is not backed by Vedic pramAna.

This seemed a motley crowd to me-"Ether, fire, air, water, earth,
Sun, moon, and living beings"-for the 'sun' and the 'Moon' are made of the earlier mentioned 5 elements(pancha Bhootas)and why single them out from the other planets or stars that are part of the universe and why throw in the 'Living Beings'along with this jumble?
Surely there is something amiss in this Translation by Professor Swaminathan.
The Key to the 'Ashta Murti' has its origin in the Purusha Suktam verse 13 through 16.
Here is verse 13:
candramā manaso jātaścakṣoḥ sūryo ajāyata |
mukhādindraścāghniśca prāṇād vāyurajāyata ||


manasa: - From his mind
candramā - was the moon
jāta - born.
cakṣoḥ - from his eyes
sūrya: - the sun was
ajāyata - born.
mukhād - From his mouth
indraśca - Indra and
aghniśca - Agni and
prāṇād - from his breath
vāyu - the wind
ajāyata - were born.

Meaning:
The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye the Sun had birth;
Indra and Agni from his mouth were born, and Vāyu from his breath.

continued....

Anonymous said...

Question to software engineers in particular... :)

How is the mind to keep hanging on to enquiry? I find it so difficult, not just because i dont do it while I am working, but because my mind is miraculously "healed" of enquiry or any similar kind of remembrance the moment I am in front of my comp. I put conscious effort to not forget from the moment I get down from the bus, but, somehow I forget abt all thoughts related to spirituality/sadhana the moment I am in front of my computer. And even if I recollect myself, I am not able to stick on to it- I just tell "O how did I forget!" and before i know, I would have forgotten about it again...

To those who have accomplished rememberance - how does one do it? WHat is it that I am lacking - apart from practise? How did you bring about fruitful rememberance (i.e., how does one remember and then stick onto it?) How does one get detached from the work and the fruits thereof - of course, ppl say "give the fruits top Lord" question is - how to give? How is one to remember that one is not the doer? How is one to obtain the Grace? Why am I not receiving enough Grace?

Also, the uncertainity at work always bothers me. I am never peaceful from the moment I wake up in the mornig - I am alwayes anxious of what might have happened during my evening, after I retired home the last evening. I am so scared!

Somebody help!!! :'(

Anonymous said...

The ashtamurti thing that Sri Subramanian has posted, I think Jupiter and the rest are not mentioned simply because their effect is not as palpable. Aprart from the 5 elements that are felt, these seem to be the ones that are more tangible, like they say "suryo pratyaksha devata". If we ask why not any other star/planet, the ans is guessable.

Of course, there could be deeper significance, but otherwise, just going by the common sense, this is what it seems!

Anonymous said...

*these are the ones that have more grossly felt than the planets/other starts.

Ravi said...

Friends,
The Purusha sukta verse 14:
nābhyā āsīdantarikṣaṃ śīrṣṇo dyauḥ samavartata |
padbhyāṃ bhūmirdiśaḥ śrotrāt tathā lokānakalpayan ||


nābhyā - from his navel
āsīd - did appear
antarikṣaṃ - space.
śīrṣṇo - From his head was
dyauḥ - the sky
samavartatat - well established.
padbhyāṃ - From his feet
bhūmi - the earth
śrotrāt - from his ears
diśaḥ - the directions
tathā - This did they
akalpayan - by mere intent, that is sankalpa
lokān - the worlds.

Meaning:
Forth from his navel came mid-air, the sky(Heavens) was fashioned from his head
Earth from his feet, and from his ears the directions. Thus formed the worlds by mere intent.

Verse 15:
saptāsyāsan paridhayastriḥ sapta samidhaḥ kṛtāḥ |
devāyad yajñaṃ tanvānā abadhnan puruṣaṃ paśum ||


asya - For this sacrifice
sapta - seven were
paridaya: - the sheathing logs, the fences.
tri:sapta - Thrice-seven, that is twenty one
samidhaḥ - the samit-wood firebrands
kṛtāḥ - made,
yad yajñaṃ - for the sacrifice for which
devā - the gods as
tanvānā - as performers of the sacrifice
abadhnan - bound
puruṣaṃ - the purusha
paśum - as the beast of sacrifice.

Meaning:
"Seven fencing-sticks had he, thrice seven layers of fuel were prepared,
When the Gods, offering sacrifice, bound, as their victim, Puruṣa."

the material creation has a framework. What is the framework ? Here it says "saptāsyāsan paridhaya" i.e., Seven were the fences. What are they ? The following are the seven things which act as a framework of creation.


1) Akasha (Space)
2) Vayu (Air)
3) Agni (Fire)
4) Apah (Water)
5) Prithivi (Earth)
6) Surya (Sun) i.e., surya signifies Bhuddi or intellect.
7) Chandra (Moon) i.e., chandra signifies Manas or mind.


Purusha is the indweller of these seven fences of creation. He himself acts as 'jivatma' and enters within this sevenfold framework as living beings. The 'jivatma' (Soul) and the above mentioned seven forms put together is called 'Ashtamurthy'.

Verse 16:

vaE-dAh (know)
a-ham (I)
E-tam (that)
pu-ru-SHam (puruSHa)
ma-hAn-tam (supreme) |
A-di-tya-var-Nam (brilliant as Sun)
ta-ma-sah (darkness)
a-stu (who is)
pA-rE (beyond) |
sa-r-vA-Ni (all)
rU-pA-Ni (forms)
vi-chit-ya (having designed)
dhee-ra-ha (glorious) |
nA-mA-ni (names)
kR~tvA (having made)
a-bhi-va-dan (maintains)
yat (that)
A-stE (who is) ||16||
I have realized the supreme puruSHa, brilliant as the solar hue
and beyond the veil of darkness. All the forms are formulated,
categorized and sustained by that wise and glorious being.


Such is the Joyous Proclamation of the seers.

In verse 5 in Tamil Upadesa undhiyAr,sri Bhagavan says-"eN uru yAvum"-this can be taken as 'All Forms formulated' and again 'all these 8 fold manifestations'.

It is clear that it is not just the Physical Forms (Bhautika)alone that are referred to;but the entire gamut of creation is referred to i.e the virAt swarupa.

Namaskar.

David Godman said...

Upadesa Undiyar, verse five:

In the original Tamil 'en uru yavum', which is usually translated as 'all the eight forms', can also be translated as 'all [things] which are forms of thought'. Muruganar took this as the primary meaning. His prose rendering of this verse says:

'The greatest puja to God is to believe that all which is perceived is the form of God, and to render service to each, as appropriate.'

The original Tamil idea, that all things perceived are thoughts alone, is not conveyed in the Sanskrit text. There, the 'eight forms' is the only possible interpretation.

Subramanian. R said...

Cow Lakshmi's Day - Her Day of
Deliverance: 12th July 2011:

Cow Lakshmi, Sri Bhagavan's pet daughter, attained liberation on
Friday, in the month of Jyeshta,
in the Sukla Paksha [waxing
moon] Dwadasi day [12th day] in the
year Sarvadhari. It corresponds to
June 1948. When the 60th liberation anniversary of Cow Lakshmi was observed in the year 2008, I was in Sri Ramanasramam.

One night, a humble villager from
Tamizh Nadu town of Kumaramangalam, near Gudiyattam had a vivid dream. In it he was directed to offer his cow's next calf at the feet of Sri Bhagavan
Ramana Maharshi, the Sage of Arunachala. Being a man of faith, the villager did not doubt the truth of his dream, but at that time, he did not have the money to travel to Tiruvannamalai, the temple town where Sri Bhagavan resided. Besides, as yet he had no calf to offer.

Not longer after this, however, as if by divine force, his cow became pregnant and gave birth to a beautiful young calf. Shortly thereafter, his fortunes improved and he lost no tome in fulfilling the instruction of his dream. Not only did he now intent to offer Sri Bhagavan, his new born calf but the mother as well.

So one Friday afternoon, in December 1926, four years after Sri Bhagavan moved down to the foot of Arunachala, this man arrived at the Asramam with his grandson after a long journey. He was filled with the hope that Sri Bhagavan would accept this token of his devotion.

Outside the Hall, some residents were gathered. Among them were two youngsters, and their father as well as Ramanatha Brhamchari, a humble devotee of Sri Bhagavan. All gazed in wonder as strangers approached with a cow and calf...

The gentleman from Kumaramangala, Sri Arunachalam Pillai, requested the ashramites to tell Sri Bhagavan to accept the cow and the calf as an offering. He asked them to influence Sri Bhagavan, in the matter. The ashramites thought over and finally asked Ramanatha Brahmachari to to do the job, since Sri Bhagavan was bound to accept if he had asked. Ramanatha still unconvinced, said that it could happen only if Sri Bhagavan willed. He told Pillai and went into the Hall.

[Source: Mainly from The Life of Cow Lakshmi, Asramam Publication,
2nd revised edition, 2008. This book is, in turn, based on several sources, inter alia, Devaraja Mudaliar's Cow Lakshmi, Letters of Suri Nagamma, [three chapters], Moments Remembered, V. Ganesan, and David Godman's The Power of the Presence, Part III.]

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

The Story of Cow Lakshmi - Her Life
and Deliverance - Cow Lakshmi Liberation Day - 12th July 2011:

continues...

Ramanatha Brahmachari entered the Hall:

Sri Bhagavan: Swami, is there something you want?

Ramanatha: Bhagavan, there is a villager from Gudiyatam, who's come to see Bhagavan. He's brought a beautiful cow and calf with him and wants to offer them to Bhagavan.

Sri Bhagavan: A cow and calf? What are we going to do with a cow and calf?

Ramanatha: Well..perhaps...

Sri Bhagavan: And who will look after them?

Ramanatha: [stuttering] Well, Bhagavan....I mean...well...I could look after them...

Sri Bhagavan: You, Swami, of all people? As if your present duties aren't enough, now you want to take of cows too? They'd have to be milked, and fed twice daily and there'd be cleaning and other chores.

Ramanatha: Bhagavan, these are all deeds of merit, aren't they?

Sri Bhagavan: Look after yourself and the people who visit the Asramam. That's merit enough. Besides, where would we keep them?

Ramanatha: We could make space where I stay.

Sri Bhagavan: There's barely enough room for 'you' and now you
want to stuff the cows in there too? Ramanatha, that is not for us, this business of a cow and calf.

Ramanatha: Bhagavan's right.

Sri Bhagavan: Now, go ahead of me. I'll come in a few minutes.

[Ramanatha leaves the Hall, after prostrating Sri Bhagavan, comes out and tells Pillai and others...]

Ramanatha: I've pleaded with Bhagavan but it's no use. He's absolutely refused. What else can I do?

Pillai: [Not accepting defeat], Everyone says that if you beg Bhagavan, He cannot refuse you. I also hear that you used to bring coffee from town for Bhagavan.

Ramanatha: Who told you that?

Pillai: Some devotees.

Ramanatha: Andavane! What have they told you? You want me to tell Bhagavan that if we accept your offering, we'll be able make Him coffee here without own cow's milk?

[Sri Bhagavan comes out...]

contd.,

[Source: many, as mentioned in the first post.]

Ravi said...

David/Friends,
Thanks very much for your elucidation of how Sri Muruganar(who was instrumental in eliciting upadesa undhiyAr from Sri Bhagavan)translated verse 5.

"The original Tamil idea, that all things perceived are thoughts alone, is not conveyed in the Sanskrit text."

Since Sri Bhagavan himself has translated this into Sanskrit(upadesa sAram),we have to admit that the two expressions should mean the same.This is what lead me towards what I have posted.
Instead of saying 'Forms,Thoughts,All' it just expresses the perceived as'Elements,Manas(Moon),Buddhi(Sun),jivatma' etc.

Tamil is a wonderful language(so is Sanskrit)and the way it lends itself to expressing pithy thoughts is something amazing.

For instance 'eN' may mean Thoughts,number,count,etc-the Numbers are there because of the 'many' and the 'many' are there because of 'Thought'-Hence the same word 'eN' is used for all these linked group of ideas.

The 'Ashta murthy'(not murthes in plural!) is not eight forms to be worshipped but one indivisible Whole manifesting as all objects and appearances on account of the interplay of matter(5 elements) and mind(manas and Intellect)and the jiva(sentient)-The Supreme Being manifest as this vast universe.

Again it is not as if Matter and Mind are seperate entities-the duality here is more akin to matter and energy relationship-just like a particle of Light can be considered as a Photon and at the same time ,it can be considered as a wave(energy).

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

The Story of Cow Lakshmi - Her Life and deliverance:

continues...

Pillai: Namaskaram, Bhagavan! [prostrates to Sri Bhagavan]

Sri Bhagavan: What's all this talk about coffee and cow's milk?

Ramanatha: Bhagavan, this is Arunachalam Pillai. He suggests that with this cow we could make Bhagavan coffee with our own milk.

Pillai: Bhagavan, please accept this Kamadhenu as an offering.

Sri Bhagavan: How can we? There is not even enough space for the people here, much less animals.

Pillai: [managing to keep his courage] Bhagavan, surely there's space somewhere in a small corner of the Asramam?

Sri Bhagavan: Would a small corner be enough? We'd need a shed. Besides, there has to be someone to look after them.

Pillai: Somebody will come who can look after them, Bhagavan. All that's required is a place in Bhagavan's heart.

Sri Bhagavan: [Falling silent for a moment] Why all this for us?

Pillai: For a long time I've wanted to present Bhagavan with a cow and now I'm in a position to to do so. I've brought them by boat and rail after a good deal of trouble. Please keep them, Swami.

Sri Bhagavan: You've done your duty in presenting them to us. But who is there to look after them? Please take them away and keep them with you on our behalf.

Pillai: [with great determination and fervour] Please, Bhagavan, I cannot. I will not them away -- even if you cut my throat!

Ramanatha [emotionally overcome by Pillai's resolve] Bhagavan, here
I am. I will be responsible for the upkeep of these animals -- I swear it.

Sri Bhagavan: [slightly exasperated] All right, Swami, then tether them in your own neck!

[Bhagavan smiles, chuckling as He turns go inside. Pillai and Ramanatha prostrate in thanksgiving. After Sri Bhagavan leaves, the two look at each other in disbelief, marvelling at their success. Pillai expresses his gratitude to Ramanatha and sets off, as the cow and calf begins a new life at the holy feet of Arunachala.]

Source: many, as indicated in the first post.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

The Story of Cow Lakshmi - Her Life and Deliverance: continues....

As the calf came to the Asramam on a Friday, it was named Lakshmi. Ramanatha somehow tended the cow and the calf for two or three months. Lakshmi was very playful, jumping about as she pleased, and while doing so, she ruined all the vegetable plants that were grown. If anyone chided her, she used to come to Sri Bhagavan for protection. Sri Bhagavan used to tell the ashramites that if they so desired, they could put up a fence to protect their plants. Poor chap! Ramanatha could not put up with all these troubles from other inmates of the Asramam and so handed over the cow and the calf to a keeper of cattle in the town by name Pasupati. Some stipulations were made to Pasupati. If Lakshmi gave birth to a male calf it should be given to the Asramam and if it were a female calf he should retain it.

About a year after that, Pasupati came to the Asramam with Lakshmi and her calf for a bath on an eclipse day. At that time, Lakshmi saw the whole of the Asramam. Remembering the route carefully, she began coming to the Asramam every day. She used to come in the morning and go away in the evening. She used to lie down by the side of Sri Bhagavan's couch. She insisted that Sri Bhagavan Himself should give her fruit. She could not take any other than the hill plantain, [malai vaazhaipazham]. Before every evening she used to go round the Hall. And she used to return to the town daily most reluctantly.

Lakshmi came to stay permanently in the Asramam in 1930. She had by then three calves, all male and as per agreement, all the calves were given to the Asramam. When she was pregnant for the third time, one evening she was unwilling to leave Sri Bhagavan and go home, like Nandini of Vasishta. She was shedding tears and lay close to the couch. Sri Bhagavan was visibly affected and softly passing His hand on her face, said, 'What! You say you can't go away and want to stay here alone? What am I to do?' and looking at others said, "Look, Lakshmi is weeping saying that she cannot go away. She is pregnant and she may have confinement any moment.She must go a long distance and again come here in the morning. She cannot refrain from coming here. What is she to do?" At last Sri Bhagavan somehow coaxed her and sent her away. That very night she delivered.

[Source: Many, as mentioned in the first post.]

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

The Story of Cow Lakshmi - Her Life
and Deliverance: continues....

Pasupati, the keeper had by that time some domestic difficulties. Unable to bear the burden of this Lakshmi with all her vagaries, he brought her and her three calves and presented them to Sri Bhagavan. Lakshmi lay at Sri Bhagavan's feet and would not rise. Placing His right hand on her head, and pressing it, He asked if she would like to stay in the Asramam permanently. She closed her eyes and lay still as in a trance. Noticing that, Sri Bhaggavan pointed to the others that she appeared as though her responsibility for her calves were over, for they had been placed in Sri Bhagavan's charge.

Sri Bhagavan said: "...After Mother came to stay with me, regular cooking and meals started, and after Lakshmi came, cattle and dairying became established. Subsequently, for thee or four years, Lakshmi was presenting us with a calf every year on the Jayanti Day. Afterwards, that practice stopped. Altogether, she had nine deliveries. After Lakhsmi came here to stay, cows from different places were brought by devotees, and left here. So the cattle shed grew in size. In the beginning, they were tied up here and there under a thatched shed. When Salem Sundaram Chetty [Judge] came here, he decided to construct a Gosala [cowshed] and fixed an auspicious time for laying the foundation stone. Half an hour before appointed time, when everything was being got ready, Lakshmi broke loose from her tether and came running as though to tell me that a house was being constructed for her and that I should be there. When I got up, she led me to the spot. She did the same for her housewarming ceremony also. Somehow she used to understand everything. Very smart indeed!"

Lakshmi became seriously ill on 18th June 1948. It appeared that she would not survive that day. The room that was built for the calves was vacated, cleaned and Lakshmi was given a bed of straw to lie down upon. As it was Friday, she was as usual decorated with turmeric paste, vermillion mark on the forehead and a garland of flowers round the neck and horns. Venkataratnam was sitting by the side fanning her. Lakshmi was lying down with her majestic look spreading lustre all around.

[Source: Many, as indicated in the first post.]

contd.,

hey jude said...

Dear Anon, "Also, the uncertainty at work always bothers me. I am never peaceful from the moment I wake up in the morning - I am alwayes anxious of what might have happened during my evening, after I retired home the last evening. I am so scared!
Somebody help!"


We're all scared, you don't have to be a software engineer to be afraid. If you're afraid of losing your job, you'll realize that in this hard corporate world many, if not most are in the same position.
A rare one like Ramana faced fear head on and had an extraordinary divine breakthrough.
Perhaps pray to Ramana or a sacred image.
If you can't stick with 'self enquiry' or stay with the 'I am' - how about 'just be' If you worry alot I think saying to yourself 'let go, just let go' is helpful.
Devotees more wise then me will perhaps give you better suggestions.
All the best

Subramanian. R said...

The Story of Cow Lakshmi - Her Life and Deliverance: continues...

Suri Nagamma writes: When I went to Sri Bhagavan, prostrated before Him and got up, He looked at me with a divine look. Taking it as an order, I said I would go and stay with Lakshmi. He nodded His head in assent and I went immediately. Venkataratnam gave me the fan and left. Sitting in that place, I began repeating Ramana Dwadaskshari, Ashottaram etc., and Lakshmi appeared to hear them attentively.

When Sri Bhagavan came to the cowshed at 9.45 a.m. as usual He came to see Lakshmi. Sri Bhagavan sat on the hay by her side, lifted her head with both His hands, and passing one of His hands lightly over her face and throat and then placing His left hand on the head, began pressing with the right hand fingers her throat right down to the heart. After pressing like that for about a quarter of an hour, He said, addressing Lakshmi, "What do you say, mother? Do you want me to stay here alone? I could stay, but what to do? All people could be around you as in the case of my mother. Even so, why? Shall I go?" Lakshmi remained calm, devoid of all the bonds of the world and of the pains of her body as though she were in samadhi. Sri Bhagavan sat there unwilling to move and with a heart full of compassion. I was overwhelmed at the sight and exclaimed involuntarily, "Oh, Mother Ahagamma had the greatest luck. So has Lakshmi now." Sri Bhagavan looked at me with a smile. Subramaniam came and said: "It seems the doctor will not be coming till 10.30 as there is no immediate danger to Lakshmi."

"All right. So Doctor will not be coming now. Have you brought the medicine for injection?" asked Sri Bhagavan. Turning towards Lakshmi and gently stroking her head and neck, He said, "What do you say? May I go?" Looking into the eyes of Lakshmi, Sri Bhagavan said, "What? May I go? Won't you tell me?" Lakshmi looked at Him proudly. What reply Sri Bhagavan got, we do not know but He got up and went away saying, "See that the flies do not get into the mouth." I assured Him that we would take due care of Lakshmi and Sri Bhagavan left the place very reluctantly.

[Source: Many, as indicated in the first post]

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

The Story of Cow Lakshmi - Her Life and Deliverance: continues....

Smt. Suri Nagamma continues...

With the divine touch of Sri Bhagavan, the outer breath of Lakshmi began subsiding and the movement of the body began to decrease. When the doctor came at 10.30 a.m. and gave an injection, Lakshmi remained unaffected as if the body was not hers. There was no death agony. Her sight was calm and clear. The doctor turned her over into the posture of Nandi, put some medicine on her boils and went away instructing us to keep some support for her head. As it was 11.30 a.m. by then, Venkataratnam came back after having his meal. He asked me to hold up the head saying he would bring some more hay. The tonuge touched me and it was icy cold. The life of Lakshmi reached the feet of Sri Ramana and was absorbed in Him.

Ten minutes later, Sri Bhagavan came into the shed saying, "Is it all over?" and squatted by her side, took her face in both His hands as though she were a little child, and lifted it and said, "Oh, Lakshmi, Lakshmi," and then, to us, controlling His tears, He said, "Because of her, our family [the Asramam] has grown to this extent." When all were praising Lakshmi, Sri Bhagavan asked, "I suppose the doctor has not troubled her much, did he? How did her life cease?" We told Him that all that had happened. "That is all right. Did you notice this? The right ear is uppermost now. Till yesterday, she was lying down on her other side. Because of the boil, she was turned over to this side. So this ear had to come up. Look, in the case of people, who die in Kasi, people say Lord Siva will whisper into the right ear. Lakshmi too her her right ear up," said Sri Bhagavan, and showed that ear to all people there. By that time, crowds gathered. After a quarter of an hour, Sri Bhagavan got up and said, "Ramakrishna has been saying for the last ten days that a good Samadhi must be built for Lakshmi." Sri Bhagavan then went away into the Hall.

Towards the Hillside, and near the dispensary, the Samadhis of a deer [VaLLi], a crow and a god [Jackie] were erected long ago. Now a pit was dug near them and work for the construction of the Samadhi was begun. At 6.00 p.m. people had come in large numbers. The Sarvadhikari brought the mortal remains of Lakshmi in a wooden cart and it was placed before Sri Bhagavan, who was sitting on a chair. Abhisehkam was done with milk, curds, ghee, sugar and rose water and the face was smeared with turmeric powder and verimillion and the mortal remains were covered with rose garlands. A silk cloth was covered over the mortal remains and incense was burnt. Sugar candy was offered and arti was performed. By 7.00 p.m. Lakshmi was placed into the Samadhi with cries of Hara Hara Mahadeva. Sri Bhagavan was visibly affected and He had touched the holy leaves and they were thron onto Lakshmi. After the Samadhi function was over, Sri Bhagavan came back to the Hall. The prasad was distributed.

In the early morning hours, Sri Bhagavan wrote a Venba in Tamizh on Lakshmi's liberation. This was translated into Telugu and Malayalam as per devotees's request.

Tamizh:

Saruvadharipper koL samvaccharathu
Varumani einthu sana vaaram - maruvumuR
Pakkath dwadasi visakam pasu vaami
Lakkumi vimuktha naaLaam.

Telugu:

Sri sarvadharisamvatsra jyeshtaakya
Masasidha dwadasim barkkava - vaasaramu
Dhaara visakasahi thammavu lakshmi kadhi
Seru dhinamni cheppu.

Malayalam:

Sri sarvadharisam vatsaram sermithuna
Masamanjaam sukra vaasam - aasidha
Pakshtathu dwadasi visakam pasu vaaya
Lakshmi vimuktha naalaam.

In the year of Sarvadhari,
Fifth of Aani, a Friday,
In the waxing phase,
Twelfth lunar day, under Visakamam,
Cow Lakshmi attained Liberation.

The Tamizh verse was engraved on
a black stone as an epitaph for Lakshmi's Samadhi. A large shrine with a near life size statue of Lakshmi is built over the grave.

[Source: Many, as indicated in the first post.]

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

The Story of Cow Lakshmi - Her Life and Deliverance:

continues....

With the efflux of time, the life force of all creatures, whether animal or human being, must eventually leave the mortal coil and return to its Source. In the early 1930s, Jackie the dog, expired peacefully in Sri Bhagavan's arms. So did VaLLi, the, deer, who, wounded by hunters, breathed her last late one night in the dining hall. In January 1947, Ramanatha Brahmachari passed away, sending a wave of sadness throughout the community. Then, in mid 1948, just six months before doctors discovered a small growth on Sri Bhagavan's left elbow, Lakshmi fell ill.

*

A few weeks later the liberation of Cow Lakshmi, in late summer,
in the Hall, Sri Bhagavan, after seeing Lakshmi's sons in gosala,
was telling:

Sri B: When Palaniswami was breathing his last, I placed my hands on him, one on his heart, and the other on his head. But, when I removed my hands the vital breath flew out of his eyes,.... But when Mother was in the last stage, I kept my hands on her head and heart. All the predispositions
of her past slowly decreased. Even after her life force had subsided, I continued to keep my hands on her for sometime. All of the births and deaths she had to pass through were exhausted....Yes, as with the Mother, all Lakshmi's vasanas were done away with during the final stage. [but He did not remain with Lakshmi right up until her last breath...] Do you know why? No vasanas remained in her!

*

Om Sri Matru mukti vidhyakaya Namah |

Matru - Mother - Mother Azhagamma - Mother Lakshmi.

Salutations to One who conferred liberation to Mother.

*

Today, the 12th July 2011, is the 63rd Liberation anniversary of Cow Lakshmi.

*

Concluded.

Anonymous said...

12th September, 1947
(141) MANIFESTATION OF THE SELF
A devotee who came here some time back and had been
listening to the various discussions in Bhagavan’s presence,
approached Bhagavan this afternoon and respectfully asked,
“Swami, it is said that Ishwara who is the reflection of the
soul and appears as the thinking mind, has become jiva, the
personal soul, which is the reflection of the thinking faculty.
What is the meaning of this?”
Bhagavan answered, “The reflected consciousness of
the Self (Atman) is called Ishwara, and Ishwara reflected
through the thinking faculty is called the jiva. That is all.”
The devotee: “That is all right, Swami, but what then is
chidabhasa?”

Bhagavan: “Chidabhasa is the feeling of the Self which
appears as the shining of the mind. The one becomes three,
the three becomes five and the five becomes many; that is, the
pure Self (satva), which appears to be one, becomes through
contact, three (satva, rajas and tamas) and with those three, the
five elements come into existence, and with those five, the
whole Universe. It is this which creates the illusion that the
body is the Self. In terms of the sky (akasa), it is explained as
being divided into three categories, as reflected in the soul:
the boundless world of pure consciousness, the boundless
world of mental consciousness and the boundless world of
matter (chidakasa, chittakasa and bhutakasa). When Mind (chitta),
is divided into its three aspects, namely mind, intuition and
‘Maker of the I’ (manas, buddhi and ahankara), it is called the
inner instrument, or ‘antahkarana’. Karanam means
upakaranam. Legs, hands and other organs of the body are
called ‘bahyakarana’, or outer instruments, while the senses
(indriyas) which work inside the body are antahkaranas or inner
instruments. That feeling of the Self, or shining mind, which
works with these inner instruments, is said to be the personal
soul, or jiva. When the mental consciousness, which is a
reflection of the tangible aspect of pure consciousness, sees the
world of matter, it is called mental world (mano akasa), but when
it sees the tangible aspect of pure consciousness, it is called total
consciousness (chinmaya). That is why it is said, ‘The mind is the
cause of both bondage and liberation for man (mana eva
manushyanam karanam bandha mokshayoh)’. That mind creates
many illusions.”
The questioner: “How will that illusion disappear?”
Bhagavan: “If the secret truth mentioned above is
ascertained by Self-enquiry, the multiplicity resolves itself into
five, the five into three, and the three into one. Suppose you
have a headache and you get rid of it by taking some
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 300
medicine. You then remain what you were originally. The
headache is like the illusion that the body is the Self; it
disappears when the medicine called Self-enquiry is
administered.”
[contd...]

Anonymous said...

[contd...]

The questioner: “Is it possible for all people to hold on
to that path of Self-enquiry?”
Bhagavan: “It is true that it is only possible for mature
minds, not for immature ones. For the latter, repetition of
a prayer or holy name under one’s breath (japa), worship
of images, breath-control (pranayama), visualising a pillar
of light (Jyotishtoma) and similar yogic and spiritual and
religious practices have been prescribed. By those practices,
people become mature and will then realize the Self through
the path of Self-enquiry. To remove the illusion of immature
minds in regard to this world, they have to be told that
they are different from the body. It is enough if you say,
you are everything, all-pervading. The Ancients say that
those with immature minds should be told that they must
know the transcendent Seer through enquiry into the five
elements and reject them by the process of repeating, ‘Not
this, not this (Neti, neti)’. After saying this, they point out
that just as gold ornaments are not different from gold, so
the elements are your own Self. Hence it must be said that
this world is real.
“People note the differences between the various types
of ornaments, but does the goldsmith recognise the difference?
He only looks into the fineness of the gold. In the same way,
for the Realized Soul, the Jnani, everything appears to be his
own Self. Sankara’s method was also the same. Without
understanding this, some people call him a nihilist (mithyavadi),
that is, one who argues that the world is unreal. It is all
meaningless talk. Just as when you see a stone carved into the
form of a dog and you realise that it is only a stone, there is no
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 301
dog for you; so also, if you see it only as a dog without realizing
that it is a stone, there is no stone for you. If you are existent,
everything is existent; if you are non-existent, there is nothing
existent in this world. If it is said that there is no dog, but
there is a stone, it does not mean that the dog ran away on
your seeing the stone. There is a story about this. A man
wanted to see the King’s palace, and so started out. Now, there
were two dogs carved out of stone, one on either side of the
palace gateway. The man standing at a distance took them for
real dogs and was afraid of going near them. A saint passing
along that way noticed this and took the man along with him,
saying, ‘Sir, there is no need to be afraid.’ When the man got
near enough to see clearly, he saw that there were no dogs,
and what he had thought to be dogs, were just stone carvings.
“In the same way, if you see the world, the Self will not
be visible; if you see the Self, the world will not be visible. A
good Teacher (Guru) is like that saint. A Realized Soul who
knows the truth is aware of the fact that he is not the body.
But there is one thing more. Unless one looks upon death as
a thing that is very near and might happen at any moment,
one will not be aware of the Self. This means that the ego
must die, must vanish, along with the inherent vasanas. If
the ego vanishes thus, the Self will shine as the luminous
Self. Such people will be on a high spiritual plane, free from
births and deaths.” With that Bhagavan stopped his discourse.

Regards,
-Z

Anonymous said...

(169) NIHILISTS AND ADVAITINS
When I went into the hall this morning, everything was
quiet. The smoke of the incense sticks enveloped the whole
atmosphere and a sweet smell was emanating from all sides.
Bhagavan had finished reading the newspapers and was
sitting in a calm attitude. Krishnaswami was winding the
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 375
clock. Unexpectedly someone asked, “Nihilists and Advaitins
go on arguing among themselves without end. What exactly
are their differences?”
The clock struck the hour, “tung, tung.” With a smile,
Bhagavan said, “You want to know the differences of opinion?
Look here. Just now, the clock has been wound; it has been
working and has struck the hour. ‘There must be someone
to wind the clock; otherwise the clock will not work,’ say the
Advaitins. ‘It is admitted that there must be someone to wind
the clock, there must then be someone to give the power or
the ability to that someone, and so on. If we proceed on that
basis, there will be no beginning and no end, and so there is
no such person as a doer (karta)’, say the Nihilists. These are
the differences of opinion. For instance, take this towel. It is
not separate from the cotton. What does that mean? The
cotton is first changed into seedless cotton, then into yarn
and finally into cloth. For doing all that there must be
someone, and so the weaver is called the doer, and it is
admitted that the various colours and varieties of a cloth are
not different from the basic thing, namely, the cotton. In the
same manner, the Advaitins say that though there is a doer
for the innumerable varieties that go to make up the world,
none of them is different from that which Is, namely,
Existence (Sat). There must be pots — big and small — but
they are all mere earth. If anyone of them gets broken, we
say that the pot is lost. But what is it that is lost? Only the
name and the form. When name and form are lost, the earth
still remains, as earth. But then, pots can be made only if
there is a potter. So the Advaitins say there is a doer as an
efficient cause. Nihilists say, ‘No’. Arguments increase but
the net result is zero. There will be no difficulties if they find
out who it is that is arguing.”
“Why then these arguments?” said the questioner.
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 376
“That is because all which is inside of a person must come
out. There will be several thoughts inside,” said Bhagavan.
One of the devotees who heard this, said, “What,
Bhagavan? You say that which is inside will always come out.
How will it come out? What is there inside?”
Bhagavan smilingly said, “Unless there is something
inside, how can anything come out? Unless some desire is
born inside, nothing appears outside. Desire is born inside
only. It develops into a big thing and comes out ultimately.”
****************************
Two points here:
*****************
1)That is what we all do here that is Throw Up(Vomit).In some respects a Good Sadhana to get rid of the itch by scratching it but not too much else the itch can get worse.

2)My understanding is Bhagawan is indirectly saying that Eeswara exists and does not exist.To further substantiate this please read the next post on 'Who is the Real Karta' an old problem we discussed.I wish somebody pasted these three posts and I wud 've been sorted.

Regards,
-Z

Anonymous said...

(57) KARTHURAGNAYA PRAPYATHE
PHALAM
(FRUITS OF ACTIONS ARE ORDAINED
BY THE CREATOR)
About ten months ago, Krishna Bhikshu wrote to me
saying that he was thinking of gifting away his property to his
brothers and then taking to sannyasa and going about the
country, hoping thereby to get peace of mind, and that he
was wondering what Bhagavan would say about it. I informed
Bhagavan about this letter. Bhagavan first said, “Is that so?
Has he finally decided?” and after a while remarked,
“Everything happens according to each individual’s karma.”
When I wrote to him about this, Krishna Bhikshu replied:
“It is said that ‘Karthuragnaya Prapyathe Phalam, fruits of actions
are ordained by the Creator.’ What has become of the
Creator?” I was disinclined to tell Bhagavan about this, and
was considering what to write in reply. Meantime, one devotee
asked Bhagavan, “In ‘Karthuragnaya Prapyathe Phalam’ who is
the karta?” Bhagavan said, “karta is Ishwara. He is the one
who distributes the fruits of actions to each person according
to his karma. That means He is Saguna Brahman. The real
Brahman is nirguna (attributeless) and without motion. It is
only Saguna Brahman that is named as Ishwara. He gives the
phala (fruits) to each person according to his karma (actions).
That means that Ishwara is only an Agent. He gives wages
according to the labour done. That is all. Without that sakti
(power) of Ishwara, this karma (action) will not take place.
That is why karma is said to be jadam (inert).”
What else could be the reply to the question of Krishna
Bhikshu? So I wrote accordingly to him. With the supernatural
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 98
powers of his sandals, Vikramarka went to Brahma Loka, the
world of Brahma, whereupon Brahma, being pleased, told
him to ask for a boon. Vikramarka said, “Lord, the Sastras
loudly proclaim that when you create living beings you write
on their foreheads their future life according to the results of
their actions in past lives. Now you say that you will give me a
boon. Will you rub out what has already been written on my
forehead, and write afresh? Or will you correct it by
overwriting? What exactly is done?” Brahma was pleased at
his intelligent question and said with a smile, “Nothing new is
done now. That which was already preordained according to
the karma of beings, comes out of my mouth. We merely say,
‘Yes, we have given you the boon.’ That is all. Nothing is given
anew. Not knowing that, people do penances for boons at our
hands. As you are an intelligent person, you have found out
the secret. I am very happy.” So saying he presented
Vikramarka with Brahmastram and sent him away. I remember
having read this story in my younger days.
In the tenth canto of Bhagavata, the same idea was given
in the exhortation of Lord Krishna to Nanda: to give up the
performance of a sacrifice to God Indra.
***********************************
So my understanding is Bhagawan's first verse in Upadesa Saram about Eeswara being the Ordainer is a Statement of Truth.A Statement of Truth does n't exist.All statements including 'Ultimate Reality' are only contextual becuase Mind is Contextual.I itself is a Context/Cause.This is the difference that Bhagawan is pointing out between Advaitin's and the Nihilst's take on 'Karta' in the previous post.This is also the meaning of a recent Ravi's quote of Aurobindo about diametric existence of Truth and it's opposite.So Kali exists and doesn't exist.Both are true but only one at a time and it depends on the context.That is also why Chalam was both a Theist and and an Atheist but not at the same time.So I dance with the Devotee in the morning and believe in Krushito naasti Durbhiksham(self effort of the Budhdhist) by the evening.

Regards,
-Z

Anonymous said...

(159) THE PATH OF SELF–ENQUIRY
This afternoon, a devotee asked Bhagavan, “Swami, for
gaining Realization, is the enquiry ‘Who am I?’ the only way?”
Bhagavan answered him: “Enquiry is not the only way.
If one does spiritual practice (sadhana) with name and form,
repetition of holy names (japa), or any of these methods with
grim determination and perseverance, one becomes THAT.
According to the capacity of each individual, one spiritual
practice is said to be better than another and several shades
and variations of them have been given. Some people are a
long way from Tiruvannamalai, some are very near; some are
in Tiruvannamalai, while some get into Bhagavan’s hall itself.
For those who come into the hall, it is enough, if they are
told as they step in, ‘Here is the Maharshi’, and they realize
him immediately. For others they have to be told which route
to take, which trains to catch, where to change, which road
to turn into. In like manner, the particular path to be taken
must be prescribed according to the capacity of the practiser
(sadhaka). These spiritual practices are not for knowing one’s
own Self, which is all-pervading, but only for getting rid of
the objects of desire. When all these are discarded, one
remains as one IS. That which is always in existence is the
Self — all things are born out of the Self. That will be known
only when one realizes one’s own Self. So long as one has
not that knowledge, all that is seen in this world appears as
real. Supposing a person sleeps in this hall. In his sleep he
dreams of going somewhere, loses his way, wanders from
one village to another, from one hill to another, and during
that time, and for days together, searches without food or
water. He suffers a good deal, enquiries of several people
and finally finds the correct place. He reaches it, and feeling
that he is stepping into this hall, greatly relieved, he opens
his eyes with a startled look. All this will have happened within
a short time and it is only after he wakes up that he realizes
that he had not been anywhere. Our present life is also like
that. When the eye of knowledge is opened, a person realizes
that he remains ever in his own Self.”
The questioner asked further: “Is it true that all spiritual
practices, as is said, merge into the path of Self-enquiry?”
“Yes,” replied Bhagavan, “the enquiry ‘Who am I?’ is
the beginning and the end of the teachings of Vedanta. It
is said that only he who has the assets of the four kinds of
spiritual practice is fit for Vedantic enquiry. Of the four
categories of practice the first is the knowledge of the Self
and the non-Self (atma and anatma). That means a
knowledge that the Self is eternal (nitya) and that the world
is unreal (mithya). How to know this is the question. It is
possible to know this by enquiry as to ‘Who am I?’ and
what is the nature of my self!
*******
Usually this procedure is suggested at the beginning of the spiritual practice, but
generally it does not carry conviction. So all sorts of other
spiritual practices are resorted to and it is only ultimately,
as a last resort, that the practiser takes to Self-enquiry.
*********
The alphabet A B C D E, etc., are learnt while young. If it is
Letters from Sri Ramanasramam 349
stated that these letters are the fundamentals for all
education and that there is no need to study for B.A. or
M.A., will people listen to such advice? It is only after
studying and passing these examinations that it will be
realized that all that has been studied is contained in those
fundamental letters A B C, etc. Are not all the scriptures
contained in the elementary thing, the alphabet? That it is
so, is only known after learning by heart all the scriptures.
It is the same with every one of these things. There are a
number of rivers, some flow straight, some wind and twist
zig-zag, but all of them ultimately become merged in the
ocean. In the same way, all paths become merged in the
path of Self-enquiry, just as all languages become merged
in Silence (mouna).
-Z

Subramanian. R said...

The Silent Power: Asramam Publication: Viswanatha Swami:

It was at Skandasramam on Arunachala, that I first met Bhagavan Ramana [in January 1921].
He was standing on the open space in front of the Asramam building facing the entrance as I approached. The very sight of Him was thrilling; something very subtle, seemingly with its centre in that body, shone forth unlimited engulfing everything else. Needless to say that I felt swallowed up by it. I stayed for a week with Sri Bhagavsn in that atmosphere of utter purity and serenity. I heard from Him how He came to Arunachala, irresistibly attracted and swept off His feet by a tremendous benevolent force. How He was one with it deep down within His Heart almost oblivious of His body and surroundings. And how only later on He gradually regained the use of His senses and mind and was able to look about and commune with others when they approached Him.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

The Silent Power: Asramam Publication: Viswanatha Swami:

continues....

Subsequently too, when I had come to Sri Bhagavan for good, the effect of His proximity continued the same way and I may say that there was no necessity for any sadhana in particular on my part. Along with a few other inmates I had my share in the work of the Asramam, in the elevating company of Sri Bhagavan and I studied His few works, devotional and philosophical, and heard His replies to various questions by visitors. But the most important thing was the mere Presence, the spiritually uplifting company of Sri Bhagavan. As Sri Bhagavan says in the Supplement to the Reality in Forty Verses, "If one associates with the Sages, where is the need for any other rigorous sadhana? No one look for a hand fan when there is pleasant southern breeze."

The climax of my spiritual experience in the proximity of Sri Bhagavan was during His "last" moments. As I stood in that small room along with a very few others, everything became shadow enveloped by one indivisible Pure Awareness, the One and Only ever present Reality. And so there was not the least feeling of any separation from Sri Bhagavan or the least vestige of sorrow on that account. Not only that, there was a positive ecstasy and elation of spirit which is nothing but the Natural State of the Self.

All those whom approached Sri Bhagavan with spiritual earnestness have had this experience of direct contact with the Divine at the very first sight of Sri Bhagavan. Ganapati Muni, the great poet and tapsvin, saw an adept (a Siddha Purusha), a Perfect Being in Sri Bhagavan, the moment he first beheld Him by chance on the Hill in the Asramam of Jadai Swami. The scholar became a disciple. Venkataramana Iyer of Satyamangalam saw Sri Bhagavan as a clear manifestation of the all pervading Supreme Self and sang his five superb Hymns in praise of Sri Bhagavan. Humphreys saw Sri Bhagavan as a glowing centre of Divine Radiance. Achyuta Dasa, Narayana Guru and so many others seeing Sri Bhagavan recognized His unique spiritual greatness. Pascaline Mallet, a French lady, who stayed with Sri Bhagavan sang in a poem in praise of Sri Bhagavan: "One Light, One Life, One Love, shining through Thee, we see." And Grant Duff [Douglas Ainslee], the cultured scholar and poet, says in his preface to Sri Bhagavan's Five Hymns to Arunachala: "I was in direct contact with one who had passed beyond the boundaries of senses and was merged in the Absolute Self. I do not need any proof of the divinity of Sri Ramana Maharshi, just as I do not need any to prove the existence of the Sun."

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

The Silent Power - Asramam Publication - Viswanatha Swami -
continues....

What is the secret behind the common experience of the Divine Glory which so many intelligent devotees have had in the presence of Sri Bhagavan? Here is the answer given by Ganapati Muni in his remarkable hymn of Forty Verses in Praise of Ramana Bhagavan: "Bow down to the holy Guru Ramana who reaching the hidden source of the ego within has effaced all differentiation and shines forth as the One Self of all beings with various mental propensities and who is resplendent as the One Reality transcending the body and the
entire world-manifestation." "I bow to Sri Ramana, the Great Teacher, the remover of all sorrow, who established in the Eternal Abode of Pure Awareness dispels the ignorance of earnest seekers, who though seeing and moving within the world, stands as the Supreme Being transcending it."

Whatever is seen is non-self and the Seer alone is this fundamental principle of Vedanta, the physical body, the life current operating in it and the mind are eliminated as non self. Even the intellect, the highest known principle in man with its reasoning faculty, has to be discarded as non self as it is only the faculty of one behind it, claiming it as his. Who is he? He cannot stand by himself and so he disappears. What then remains as the source of the elusive I-sense in us is the ultimate Self, which is ever there as the Ground of all that appears and disappears, of all perception in the waking and dream states and non-perception of anything in deep sleep.

Though the truth of the ultimate Self is explained within a few steps like this, the enveloping power of a mysterious force of darkness known as avarana in Vedanta, is such that it gets eradicated only after a vigilant self enquiry constantly carried on. The inherent tendencies (vasanas) of the mind based on a phantom ego get annihilated only after a continuous earnest attempt to abide at the Heart, the Source. So Sri Sankara says in his Vivekachudamani that liberation [mukti] is nothing but the complete eradication of the ego with all its vasanas. Sri Bhagvan says in His song on Atma Vidya that Grace is needed for the dawn of Jnana as well as earnest aspiration and devotion on the part of the seeker to deserve it. When earnest effort and Grace meet, there is the achievement of the highest spiritual aspiration of man, viz., spontaneous inherence in the ever-present Self.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

The Silent Power - Asramam Publication - Viswanatha Swami -
continues....

The Self is Pure Awareness, unalloyed Awareness itself, whereas the mind is awareness of this and that. The mind cannot stand for a moment without an object, because it is by its very nature a subject-object phenomenon. It disappears when it is divested of objects, unable to stand by itself. And there, the Self, the one indivisible absolute Awareness shines for ever as stated in Sri Ramana Gita [Chapter VII. Verse 5]. "When the ego which is but a phantom of the Self totally disappears, what remains is the real Self alone in all its plenitude and perfection." This is Jnana and this is mukti [liberation].

For one established in it thus, the subject-object phenomena may appear and disappear but he will remain for ever unsullied as Pure Awareness, since nothing has any existence apart from It. This is known as Tanmaya Nishtai. Being the Self is Awareness of the Self.

From a relative standpoint, the proximity of such a Sage, normally established in the Self under all circumstances of life, serves as an eye opener for those in the clutches of delusion and as an invaluable aid supporting them in their spiritual quest. The operation of the Spiritual Force of such enlightened Ones is not limited to the lifetime of their physical body. It continues for ever and those who think of them, surrender themselves to them, study their life and teachings and try to follow them do get into the ambit of their Grace, non different from Supreme Divine Grace. This is the experience of so many spiritual aspirants who had not met Sri Bhagavan during His lifetime but devoted themselves to Him on hearing of Him or coming to know of Him somehow or other. The enlightened Ones who are themselves timeless belong to all time and by their very nature shed light on the path of seekers and help them in ever so many ways.

Ultimately one sees that one has no existence apart from Pure Awareness, that there is no world apart from it and that there is no other God than Pure Awareness. Blissful Awareness is the sole Reality. Manifestation as the Many is nothing but Its Lila. Everyone, in manifestation, has to play his part knowing at heart that it is all nothing but Lila, the Only Reality being Absolute Blissful Awareness.

Concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Spiritual Stories as told by Bhagavan Ramana - Asramam Publication - 2010:

Earnestness or Faith [Sraddha]:

A devotee obtained a copy of Sri Bhagavan's work ULLadu Narpadu and began to write out the entire work for himself. Seeing him doing this writing with earnestness, though with a certain amount of difficulty and strain, since the devotee was not accustomed to squatting and doing continuous writing work, Sri Bhagavan told the story of a Sannyasi and his disciples to illustrate what is called Sraddha - earnestness of purpose.

There was once a guru who had eight disciples. One day he instructed them all to make a copy of his teachings from a note book he had kept. One of them, who had lived an easy going life before renouncing the world, could not make a copy for himself. He therefore paid a couple of rupees to a fellow disciple and requested him to make a copy for him also. The guru examined the copy books one day and, noticing two books in the same handwriting, asked the disciples for an explanation. Both the writer and the one who on whose behalf it was written told the truth about it. The Master commented that, though speaking the truth was an essential quality of a spiritual aspirant, it alone wuld not carry one to one's goal, but that sraddha [earnestness for purpose] was also necessary. Since this had not been exhibited by the disciple who had entrusted his own labour to another, he was disqualified from discipleship. Referring to his making payment for the work, the guru sarcastically remarked that 'Salvation' costs more than that and he was at liberty to purchase it rather than undergo training under him. So saying, he dismissed that disciple.


****

Subramanian. R said...

My Reminiscences: N. Balarama Reddy - Asramam Publication - 2008 edition:

LEARNED SCHOLARS:

Many learned scholars and sannyasins would often visit Sri
Bhagavan and ask questions. Sri Bhagavan's response to these and other visitors was not always uniform. To some people He would give much attention, either by talking to them or pouring out His grace through silent look. Others, He would stoically ignore. All these variations were not governed by status, wealth or fame.

One morning, a famous swami from Ahmedabad arrived at the Asramam. He had many wealthy disciples and was himself attired in costly ochre-coloured silk. He also had several pieces of luggage, which clearly indicated that he was man of some means. The swami came into the guest room for gentlemen and introduced himself to me. He wanted to know when he could see the Maharshi. I told him at 10 a.m. I would be going to the Hall. He could accompany me and I would introduce him to the Maharshi.

During that period between 10 a.m. and 11 a.m. every morning in the Old Hall, Devaraja Mudaliar, Munagala Venkatramiah and I were going through Venkatramiah's English translation of a Tamizh scripture. Sri Bhagavan would hold the Tamizh book and we would read the English translation for each verse. Then we would discuss it until it was acceptable to Sri Bhagavan.

The swami entered the Hall with me at 10 a.m. and I introduced him to Sri Bhagavan. He was fluent in Sanskrit and other languages, and was also well versed in scriptures. He inquired if he was allowed to ask a question. Consent was given and he asked Sri Bhagavan, if Iswara, the personal God, actually existed. The Maharshi replied with one of His standard rejoinders: "We do not know about Iswara, whether he exists or not. But we do know that we exist. Find out who that 'I' is that exists. That is all that is required."

The swami was not satisfied with this answer and continued to discuss the matter, quoting from various scriptures. Sri Bhagavan then said, "If the scriptures say all this about, why question me further?"

This was also not acceptable to the swami and he proceeded to elaborate, at which point, Sri Bhagavan cut him off by turning to us and saying, 'Come on. Let us begin our work.' Needless to say that the swami was quite annoyed and soon left the Hall.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Ramana Reminiscences: N. Balarama Reddy - continues...

Later in the day, he told me that my Maharshi does not seem to know very much. I simply replied: "Yes." Although this visitor had originally planned on staying for three days, he cut short his visit and left that very afternoon, without even going back into the Hall to see the Maharshi. Sri Bagavsan later asked me what the swami said before leaving. When I told Him, He simply smiled.

I remember a similar incident with a famous swami from Bombay, brought to the Asramam by Mr. Bose. Although this swami too was well known, he had numerous disciples and was always given high honours wherever he went, in Sri Bhagavan's Presence, he was treated just like everyone else. No special seat, no special attention and he sat on the floor with all the others.

When this swami asked the first question, Sri Bhagavan remained silent for a long time. He must have wondered why there was no answer. Probably no one had ever, seemingly ignored him like that before. The question was:
"Which avatar are you?" After sometime, the Mauni [Srinivasa Rao] came into the Hall and Sri Bhagavan said to him, "He wants to know which Avatar I am. What can I say to him? Some people say I am this and some say I am that. I have nothing to say about it."

This was followed by a barrage of questions from the swami, who asked Sri Bhagavan's state of realization, about samadhi, the bhakti school, etc., Sri Bhagavan answered him very patiently point by point. The swami listened. Whether or not he was satisfied is hard to say. Before leaving the Hall, the swami touched Sri Bhagavan's couch and joined his palms in salutation!

In Day by Day with Bhagavan, more conversations with this swami have been recorded. Mr. Bose reported that before the swami boarded the train, he said, "I have truly gained something from this visit to the Maharshi." Sri Bhagavan also commented after his departure, "It will work." Whenever He made this observation, we understood it to mean that the conversation the person had with Sri Bhagavan, would sink in and ultimately have positive effects.

continued..

shiba said...

Hello, everyone.

"He wants to know which Avatar I am. What can I say to him? Some people say I am this and some say I am that. I have nothing to say about it."

Why did Bhagavan have nothing to say about it?

Ramprax said...

@Shiba
Why did Bhagavan have nothing to say about it?

Bhagavan does clearly say about it. He gives it in writing.

ariyAdhiyi dharajIvara thagavArija gugaiyil
aRivAirami paramAthuman aruNAchala ramaNan
parivAluLa murugAnala paranArndhidu gugaiyArndhu
aRivAmvizhi thiRavAnijam aRivAiyadhu veLiyAm.

shiba said...

To Ramprax

I can read only English and Japanese.I am especially good at Japanese.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Shiba,

Sri Bhagavan is Brahma Swarupam,
a nameless, formless, eternal and ever present Substance, ULLa PoruL. All avataras are manifestations in the world with a specific arrival and departure or withdrawal from the world. Sri Bhagavan is not. Hence He said like that. However, devotees had various visions as their imaginations went, as Subrahmanya, Siva, Dakshinamurty. He did not object to their visions. "As you think, so I become." He seemed to say.

Even in the Commission enquiry, when the court representative asked Him, whether He was an avatara of Subrahmanya, He said yes. Whether He was an avatara of Siva, He said yes. Because all avataras are confined in Brahman.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Shiba,

A devotee named Amritananda Yati wrote on a paper a Malayalam verse, imploring Sri Bhagavan to say whether He was Hari [Vishnu],
or Sivaguru [Subrahmanya] or Yativara [Siva] or Vararuchi [ A Rishi who was an expert in medicine]. Sri Bhagavan wrote His reply in the same Malayalam metre on the same paper. A Tamizh verse was made by Sri Bhagavan Himself later. Ramprax has given the Tamizh version. A translation of it is given below:

In the recesses of the lotus shaped Hearts of all, beginning with Vishnu, there shines as pure intellect [Absolute Consciousness] the Paramatman [Brahman], who is the same as Arunachala Ramana. When the mind melts with love of Him, and reaches the inmost recess of the Heart, wherein He dwells, as the beloved, the subtle eye of pure intellect opens and He reveals Himself as Pure Consciousness.

****

S. said...

salutations to all:

Subramanian:
[..."All avataras are manifestations in the world with a specific arrival and departure or withdrawal from the world. Sri Bhagavan is not. "...]

sorry, can't understand what you meant or what you wanted to imply! the statement seems hyperbolic & emotional. if you have known what bhagavAn "is", will be glad to learn... :-)

it's not as if visualising this or that deity on bhagavAn only is an imagination; to see bhagavAn as the name & form what the several photographs of bhagavAn impress upon us is also another kind of an imagination, isn't it?

shiba said...

Thank you very much for your clarification, Subramanian.R.

Your writing make me understand Sri Bhagavan more deeply and rightly.

Arvind Lal said...

Hi folks,

“A devotee named Amritananda Yati wrote on a paper a Malayalam verse, imploring Sri Bhagavan to say whether He was Hari [Vishnu], or Sivaguru [Subrahmanya] or Yativara [Siva] or Vararuchi [ A Rishi who was an expert in medicine].”

Subramaniam, Vararuchi in literature is a sort of quasi-mythical figure with many diverse backgrounds attached to him, but NONE, as far as I am aware, credit him with any expertness in medicine. The commonly accepted background is that he was a great luminary in King Vikramaditya’s court, a great grammarian and astrologer.

Personally never understood why Amritananda Yati included “Vararuchi” in his divine grouping of Lord Visnu, Lord Siva and Lord Kartikkeya. It really is a stark anomaly. Logically, the fourth name should have been Lord Brahma, to complete the Trilogy. (Lord Ganesa was perhaps not included because Ganapati Muni was present there in those days and he was already regarded as an Avatar or Amsa of Lord Ganesa).

Only reason that one can attribute for “Vararuchi” to be mentioned is that Amritananda Yati was probably from Kerala (since he wrote in Malayalam), and in that region Vararuchi has a divine status in some communities. Perhaps it even may be so that in some Kerala communities “Vararuchi” is a variant for Lord Brahma, and the yati’s usage was thus only.

Not that all this really matters, it is Bhagavan’s answer that is so important.

Best wishes

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Arunagiri Nathar's Guru
Puja - Jyeshta [Aani] Moolam
asterism - 14.7.2011:

For Tamizh devotees and also for
those who have read Sri Bhagavan's
literature in detail, the story of
Arunagiri Natha need not told in
detail. He is also from Tiruvannamalai, in fact, he was earlier to Guhai Namasivaya and Guru Namasivaya. He is said to have born in a family of courtesans, perhaps moderately rich. Though quite well versed in Tamizh language and its poetics, he spent his early youth chasing women and going to bed with them. Soon the family riches and also his health got ruined. He contracted leprosy and got dejected. He decided to jump from the temple tower of Arunachaleswara Temple. It may be that he had a lot of punuyas, merits accumulated in his previous births, Lord Muruga held him when he was jumping down from the temple tower. He advised him to remain summa [still] and meditate. Arunagiri Natha did so for 12 years in some unknown place in Tiruvannamalai. After such a meditative span of 12 years, Lord Muruga appeared again and told him to sing his glory. He started singing with his first song starting as Muthaitharu pathi tirunagai... glorifying Deivayanai, the consort of Muruga, and also Muruga's exploits in killing the demons.

In all he is said to have composed
18000 songs called as Tirupugazh, the Holy Glory. We are however able to get only about 1320 songs thanks to the efforts of Vadakkupattu Subrahmanya Pillai in
early 19th century. These songs were published by Pillai and it soon became a habit for many Tamizhians to sing these songs in groups. Later Chengalvaraya Pillai
and VaLLimalai Swamigal [ both devotees of Sri Bhagavan] had worked for the popularity of songs by asking Muruga devotees to sing them daily.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Arunagiri Natha Guru Puja
- Liberation Day - 14.7.2011:

VaLLimalai Swamigal started the
practice of singing these songs
from the night of 31st December to 1st morning every year in Tiruttani. For each step, the devotees would sing one song and after covering about 500+ steps in the wee hours of next morning [the New Year] they would arrange for abhishekam and then annadhanam [serving food for devotees and visitors to the temple.]

From mid 20th century, it is Sri
Guruji Raghavan, who continued the task of spreading Tiruppugazh. He started classes for men and women in Delhi who are interested in chanting/singing these songs. Such classes spread to other cities like Chennai, Mumbai and Kolkata and Bangalore. He has also a published a book of 501 select songs at affordable price with notations of raga and tala. Today the number of members in such groups in India has exceeded 25000 and there are also classes conducted in Singapore, Malaysia and Sri Lanka.

Arunagiri Nathar's other works are:

1. Kandhar Anubhuti
2. Kandhar Alankaram.
3. Kandhar Andati
4. Mayil [peacock], Vel [Javelin] and Seval [rooster] Viruthams [songs]
5. Tiru Vaguppu. [20 songs]

From Tiru Vaguppu, David Godman has rendered in English Perutha Vachana Vaguppu. Perutta Vachanam means Big Word - which is nothing but Summa Iru.

It is Devarja Mudaliar who stared singing Tiruppugazh songs in Sri Bhagavan's presence in the Hill and Sri Bhagavan encouraged it. Devaraja Mudaliar says in his reminiscences that Sri Bhagavan used to like songs like Athala Chedanar aada... Neelangol Megathin....and Kumara Gurupara GuNadhara...

Sri Bhagavan has recommended singing of NelangoL megathin.... whenever devotees told Him about delay in marriage of their daughters.

It is Arunagiri Nathar who had vision that Jnana Sambandha to be
an reincarnation of Skanda, Muruga.
Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni extended it saying that Sri Bhagavan is an
reincarnation of Muruga/Jnana Sambandha.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Arunagiri Nathar Guru Puja
- Jyeshta Moola asterism:
14.07.2001:

Arunagiri Natha is a poet who
looked upon both Saivism and Vaishnavism, as having one and the
same goal and he, in his songs, described exploits of both Siva and
Vishnu. He has in fact covered all
the ten avataras of Vishnu in his songs at different places. He has also described Uma as the concorporate god with Siva.

The saint poet's songs have been so designed to be sung in old Tamizh PaN [ragas]. However, Guruji Raghavan and others have found the identical Karnatic ragas and have used them to sing the songs. For example, what the poet called as Pazham Panchuram is today's Sankarabharanam.

When one Sambandaan, a Sakta called Arunagiri Natha for a debate, the saint brought Muruga to appear before the king and other audience near the shrine of Kambathu Ilaynar in Sri Arunachaleswara Temple.

The saint poet has covered about 230 temples of Muruga [Siva Temples where Muruga shrines are also there.]. This includes five temples representing five elements, Chidambram, Tiruvarur, Tiruvannamalai, Kalahasti and Tiruvanaikka. And also the six Abodes [which are called Padai Veedu, barracks] of Muruga viz., Tiurparangundram, Tiruchendur, Pazhani, Swamimalai and Kadirgamam [in Sri Lanka]. He has covered many other Muruga temples that are in temples of Tiruchirapalli, Vayalur etc.,

I have forgot to mention the contribution of Sri Kripananda Vaariyar who was a great Muruga devotees, who spread Tiruppugazh songs through his discourses and bhajans.

Arunagiri Natha's favorite temple is in Vayalur, near Tiruchirappali. It is believed that he attained Samadhi/ Videha Kaivalyam there.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear arvind,

I also had some doubt about
Vararuchi. He is said to
have been one of the nine gems
of Vikaramaditya's court. But
I have also seen one old Parke
Davis advertisement, where one man
is doing surgery on a patient and
the legend underneath said it was
Vararuchi. Perhaps, he was a physician and surgeon too.

****

Arvind Lal said...

Hi folks,

Some more musings on Amritanatha Yati & “Vararuchi”:

Was thinking that so stark and absurd is the anomaly of including “Vararuchi” in the divine grouping given otherwise by the learned yati, I would stick my neck out and say that the original note must have mentioned “Viranchi”, which is indeed a name of Lord Brahma. Later on, a misreading of the yati’s handwriting may have caused “Vararuchi” to inadvertently take the place of “Viranchi”. Or alternately, it even may be that the yati meant to write “Viranchi” but inadvertently wrote “Vararuchi”, being a much more common divine name in Kerala.

Else, looking into possible divine links to “Vararuchi”, literally the term would mean, “husband of Ruchi”, i.e Lord Kamadeva (the Lord of Carnal Love, Cupid), again quite an inappropriate choice in the query by Amritanatha Yati.

Also, “Ruchi” (in masculine usage!), was one of the sons of Lord Brahma. Perhaps there is some obscure linkage, which is unknown to me, with “vara” in Sanskrit, which implies that the word then means Lord Brahma Himself.

Best wishes

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Poornima - 2011:

Today is also the full moon
day of Ashada month [as per
Chandramana calendar] and from
today, these sannyasis observe
what is called Chaturmasya Vratam.
During these four months, they
stay in one place without moving
from place to place, since it would be rainy season and their travels by foot would be difficult.

Guru Poornima is also observed as
Vyasa Poornima. Vyasa represents the ancient gurus and their lineage. Krishna is also called
Jagadguru, the Guru of the world.
Sri Dakshinamurty is the primordial
Guru who taught the four disciples in silence.

This Guru Poornima is observed
in Sri Ramanasramam today and in
some places tomorrow.

This is the day that we should pray to Sri Bhagavan, our Guru for
all His grace towards us.

Guru Vachaka Kovai says: [tr. David Godman]:

322. Unless we first obtain the divine grace of a guru, a jivanmukta in whose perspective
the triputi-differences have ended and who shines as the undivided and single essence, it will be impossible to obtain the life of liberation and live illustriously under the shade of God's twin feet, that is all supreme bliss and the highest of all benefits.


280: The Guru, the benefactor of true Jnana, who truly shines as the Self that possesses unlimited splendour, is the primal silence that puts to flight the perverse arguments that arise through the persistent stain of infatuation with the world.

281: With his twin eyes the Guru will instantaneously kill without killing the one who came into existence without actually existing in such a way that 'that which is not' vanishes as 'that which is not', leaving that which exists as the transcendental light shining as 'that which is'

282: It is impossible to experience the marvellous dance of true Jnana in which the Heart shines unless the antics of the unbridled monkey-mind cease through the grace-power of the valiant one who wields the divinely granted sword of true Jnana, he who has already cut off and brought down his own mind demon.

283: Through the Guru appearing in the waking state of the disciple - which is actually a dream that originates in the sleep of ignorance - the disciple will ls lose the shrouding ignorance and attain Jnana. The validation analogy is this: when this elephant sees a lion in its dream -- which originates from in sleep -- the elephant's sleep ends and it wakes up. [This is an idea expressed in Ozhivil Odukkam of KaNNudaiya VaLLalar - Verse 2].

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Guru Poornima - 14.07.2011:

Sri Ramana Darsanam:
[tr. David Godman]

Just like the philosopher's
stone, which has a wonderful
power of turning base iron into
noble gold, Sri Bhagavan's presence transformed even unfit persons into blessed ones.

Devaraja Mudaliar quoted the following two verses in his My
Recollections of Bhagavan Sri Ramana:

From Brahma Gita:

To stay where a Jnani, who is
none else but the Supreme Self,
stays, is mukti. He who serves a
Jnani is so great that I permanently bear on my head his feet. None can equal the spotless and supreme Jnani, neither Siva,
Vishnu nor I, Brahma. Who else can equal him?

Kurunthirattu:

Vishnu will carry on his head all that a real Jnani wants. Siva will follow him everywhere. While virtuous kings and all the gods
do obeisance to the dust of such a Jnani's feet, Brahma will beg that those feet may be placed on his head.

In Talks No. 13, Sri Bhagavan says:

Question: Is a Master necessary for realization?

Bhagavan: The realization is the result of the Master's grace more than teachings, lectures, meditation, etc., They are only secondary aids, whereas the former [Grace] is the primary and the essential cause.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namah |

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear arvind,

I broke my head about Vararuchi.
It soon occurred to me that he
is neither a physician nor a
surgeon nor even a paleontologist.
The fellow in Park Davis advt. I could recollect as Susruta.

Then who is he? Smt. Kanakammal came to my rescue. In her Tamizh
commentary on Sri Bhagavan's work,
first part, she merely mentions
Vararuchi as Vararuchi only. But in
her English commentary [only one part could be completed by her
before she attained Sri Bhagavan's feet.], she mentions Vararuchi as: the author of an elaborate treatise on the famous grammarian Panini's Sutras, Ashtadyayi. I
think Panini's another name is
Vyakrapada, the rishi with tiger's legs and who perched on a tree and watched Nataraja's dance in Chidmbaram and from the sounds of His anklets, while He was dancing, Vyakrapada wrote Sanskrit grammar.

****

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous,

"To those who have accomplished rememberance - how does one do it? WHat is it that I am lacking - apart from practise? How did you bring about fruitful rememberance (i.e., how does one remember and then stick onto it?) How does one get detached from the work and the fruits thereof - of course, ppl say "give the fruits top Lord" question is - how to give? How is one to remember that one is not the doer? How is one to obtain the Grace? Why am I not receiving enough Grace?"

Honestly, ans for these kind of questions will come by itself, if genuine and experience/words of others might not be as convincing to you as they have been convinced simply bcoz it is their experience and not yours. Atleast this is the way it has been for me. I have asked questions but never have had faith/trust/been convinced by the answers got from others. Only those that have arose in myself have been convincing for me.

Having said that, I would share with you my experience, since you have asked for it. If it helps and you are able to convince yourself, good for you. :)

The root problem here is the feeling that one should be physically free, not engaged in any action for doing enquiry. Instead of thinking so, since you would spend most part of your day at work, why not consider that as your sadhana time? This is just change in attitude. SO, once you convince yourself of this, the next logical step is how to do sadhana at work time - do as Bhagavan advised to PB which was posted sometime back by Arvind -


"Q: How can my mind be still if I have to use it more than other people? I want to go into solitude and renounce my headmaster's work.
A: No. You may remain where you are and go on with the work. What is the undercurrent which vivifies the mind, enables it to do all this work? It is the Self. So that is the real source of your activity. Simply be aware of it during your work and do not forget it. Contemplate in the background of your mind even whilst working. To do that, do not hurry, take your own time. Keep the remembrance of your real nature alive, even while working, and avoid haste which causes you to forget. Be deliberate. Practice meditation to still the mind and cause it to become aware of its true relationship to the Self which supports it. Do not imagine it is you who are doing the work. Think that it is the underlying current which is doing it. Identify yourself with the current. If you work unhurriedly, recollectedly, your work or service need not be a hindrance."

Having said that, if you are worried that you might not be able to complete your work in time because of deliberation, you might have to extend your work for couple of hours - but see what you have gained - 9 hrs (normal/expected hrs of work) + 2 hrs (say due to deliberation) of sadhana and peace of mind against 9hrs of work without sadhana.

This will also answer your fear w.r.t. your work - if you are scared of wrath from seniors the next day, you really have nothing to lose (considering taht you genuinely want to do sadhana). Else, in addition to facing wrath of seniors, you would have only accumulated more vasanas! As Bhagavan has said, you would be like neither here, nor there types(Arunachala Padikam, verse 8)... :)

This has worked on and off for me - worked whenever I have genuinely/desperately wanted to enquire when @ work and not when I have been not so keen... So, these are not words of a pro.

Good luck.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous,

"Destruction of mind alone is tapas. This alone is one’s duty. One who is doing his own work will not pay attention to anyone else’s work. One should never give room for swerving from the thought of the Self. However many duties one may have, at all other times not meant for performing duties, one must perform only self-enquiry. While standing, sitting and taking food, one can do vichara, can one not? If the mind happens to forget the enquiry “Who am I?” because of vasanas, when it remembers the enquiry, it should try not to lose hold of the enquiry again."

- from unpublished draft of "Who am I?" (as mentioned in Power of Presence Part-1)

And,
"Q: If one holds the Self in remembrance, will one's actions always be right?
A: They ought to be. However, such a person is not concerned with the right or wrong of actions. His actions are God's and therefore right."

- Talk 24.

The above two should be remembered as complementary to the quote in previous post. The one from talk really shows that one should already be detached atleast to certain extent to be able to practise when at work. A little bit of beleif in Master's words or atleast an "open mind" to try out what He says should be present as pre-requisite to be able to enquire @work!

Ravi said...

Anonymous/Friends,
Anonymous to Anonymous!Good posts.
"Having said that, if you are worried that you might not be able to complete your work in time because of deliberation, you might have to extend your work for couple of hours - but see what you have gained - 9 hrs (normal/expected hrs of work) + 2 hrs (say due to deliberation) of sadhana and peace of mind against 9hrs of work without sadhana."
If we are 'doing'(in) sadhana at all times including 'work' time,the work that should take 7 Hours should take less time to complete-for we will be free to do it and not slave at it;not plagued by cares and worries that waste our time.
The 'Key' thing is not rememberance,but 'Interest' or 'Desire' for the Divine.If this is there,if we truly want the Divine above all things,the remembrance will always be there,atleast at a background level,irrespective of what we may be doing.This is what is called smarana.
How to develop this interest or desire?Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
It was about six o'clock in the evening. The Master was sitting with the devotees on the
southeast verandah of his room.
MASTER: "A holy man who has renounced the world will of course chant the name of
God. That is only natural. He has no other duties to perform. If he meditates on God it
shouldn't surprise anybody. On the other hand, if he fails to think of God or chant His holy
name, then people will think ill of him.
"But it is a great deal to his credit if a householder utters the name of the Lord. Think of
King Janaka. What courage he had, indeed! He fenced with two swords, the one of
Knowledge and the other of work. He possessed the perfect Knowledge of Brahman and
also was devoted to the duties of the world. An unchaste woman attends to the minutest
duties of the world, but her mind always dwells on her paramour.
"The constant company of holy men is necessary. The holy man introduces one to God."


Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Direct Teaching of Bhagavan
Ramana - V. Ganesan - Asramam
Publication, 2011 edition:

Devotee: Seeking the 'I' there
is nothing to be seen.

Maharshi: Because you are accustomed to identify yourself with the body and sight with the eyes, therefore, you say you do not see anything. What is there to be seen? Who is to see? How to see? There is only one Consciousness which, manifesting as 'I' thought, identifies itself
with the body, projects itself through the eyes and sees the objects around. The individual is limited in the waking state and expects to see something different. The evidence of his senses will be the seal of authority. But he will not admit that the seer, the seen and the sight are all manifestations of the same consciousness -- namely, contemplation helps one to overcome the illusion that the Self must be visual. In truth, there is nothing visual. How do you feel the 'I' now? Do you hold a mirror before you to know your own being? The awareness is the 'I'. Realize it and that is the Truth.

Devotee: On enquiry into the origin of thoughts, there is a perception of 'I'. But it does not satisfy me.

Maharshi: Quite right. The perception of 'I' is associated with a form, may be the body. There should be nothing associated with the Pure Self. The Self is the unassociated, Pure Reality, in whose light, the body, the ego, etc., shine. On stilling all thoughts Pure Consciousness remains over.

Just on waking from sleep and before becoming aware of the world, there is that pure 'I-I'. Hold to it without sleeping or without allowing thoughts to possess you. If that is held firm, it does not matter even though the world is seen. The seer remains unaffected by the phenomena.

- Talks No. 196.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Direct Teaching of Bhagavan
Ramana - Sri V. Ganesan -
continues...

Devotee: This 'I'-thought rises
from me. But I do not know the
Self.

Maharshi: All these are only mental concepts. You are now identifying yourself with a wrong 'I', which is the 'I'-thought. This 'I'-thought rises and sinks, whereas the true significance of 'I' is beyond both. There cannot be a break in your being. You, who slept, are also now awake. There was no unhappiness in your deep sleep. Whereas it exists now. What is it that has happened now so that this difference is experienced? There was no 'I'-thought in your sleep, whereas it is present now. The true 'I' is not apparent and the false 'I' is parading itself. This false 'I' is he obstacle to your right knowledge. Find out wherefrom this false 'I' arises. Then it will disappear. You will be only what you are, i.e. Absolute Being.

Devotee: How to do it? I have not succeeded so far.

Maharshi: Search for the source of the 'I'-thought. That is all that one has to do. The universe exists on account of the 'I--thought. If that ends, there is an end of misery also. The false 'I' will end only when its source is sought.

- Talks No. 222

She: What is the difference between meditation and distraction?

Maharshi: No difference. When there are thoughts, it is distraction. When there are no thoughts, it is meditation. However, meditation is only practice [as distinguished from the real state of Peace.].

She: How to practice meditation?

Maharshi: Keep off thoughts.

She: How to reconcile work with mediation?

Maharshi: Who is the worker? Let him who work ask the question. You are always the Self. You are not the mind. It is the mind which raises these questions. Work proceeds, always in the presence of the Self only. Work is no hindrance to realization. It is the mistaken identity of the worker that troubles one. Get rid of the false identity.

- Talks No. 68.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Direct Teaching of Bhagavan
Ramana - V. Ganesan.

continues...

A man asked the Maharshi to say something to Him. When asked what he wanted to know, he said that he knew nothing and wanted to hear something from the Maharshi.

Maharshi: You know that you know nothing. Find out that Knowledge. That is liberation [mukti].

- Talks No. 12.

The Maharshi gave the true significance of the Christian faith thus:

Christ is he ego.

The Cross is the body.

When the ego is crucified, and it perishes, what survives is the Absolute Being. [God]. "I and my
Father are one." And this glorious survival is called Resurrection.

- Talks No. 86

Maharshi: When a man dies, the funeral pyre is prepared and the body is laid flat on the pyre. The pyre is lit. The skin is burnt, the flesh and then the bones until the whole body falls to ashes. What remains thereafter? The mind. The question arises, "How many are there in the body -- one or two?" If two people say "I" and not 'we'?
There is therefore only one. Whence it is born? What is its nature? (Swarupam)? Enquiring thus the mind also disappears. Then what remains over is seen to be 'I'. The next question is 'Who am I?' The Self alone. This is contemplation. It is how I did it. By this process, attachment to the body [deha vasana] is destroyed. The ego vanishes. Self alone shines.

- Talks No. 34.

******

Subramanian. R said...

From Cherished Memories:
[Asramam Publication -]
Smt. T.R. Kanakammal.

HEART MAY RULE THE MIND:

When Sri Bhagavan left the body,
His devotees, were desolate. Our
grief was intolerable, and we were
unable to carry on with our lives
the way we had done before. In the hope of regaining some degree of mental composure, we requested Muruganar Swami to explain Sri Bhagavan's Collected Works. Accordingly, Muruganar started his lectures on the Collected Works. These lectures went for about 6 months. Muruganar was an exceptional teacher. His lectures were notable for their clarity and for the wealth of illustrations, quotations and allusions to other philosophical works. Sometimes, the explanation of a single stanza could take two or three days. Muruganar was able to make us understand the most intricate poetry and to grasp the real meaning of Sri Bhagavan's teachings.

Once the Collected Works had been discussed fully, Sri Muruganar started taking classes exclusively for me. One of he works he explained to me is the Ozhivil Odukkam. Sri Muruganar used to say that this was one of Sri Bhagavan's favourite books. Muruganar told me that the existing commentary for this book was based on Saiva Siddhanta and that Bhagavan had asked him to write another commentary for the book based on Vedanta. Muruganar, however, was unable to carry out the assignment Sri Bhagavan had set. During his lectures on the Collected Works, Muruganar often quoted from Ozhivil Odukkam. These verses were extremely sweet and moving. I was so charmed by the verses recited by Muruganar that I developed the desire to read the work in its entirety. But it is a very complex work, totally beyond my grasp. Tamizh language allows for the combination of words to form complex word-chains. Unless one knows how to break up these word chains, it is impossible to understand anything, One requires the guidance of an experienced teacher to comprehend this work, Muruganar graciously agreed to be my teacher.

Muruganar's method of teaching was as revolutionary as it was effective. He would insist upopn my reading each verse aloud. Unfamiliar as I was with the intricacies of the language, my attempts at reading were quite clumsy and often totally confusing! But my teacher was very patient with me. After my faltering attempts at reading the verse, he would read the same verse, splitting the words properly and pausing at the appropriate places.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Cherished Memories: Smt.T.R.
Kanakammal -

Heart May Rule the Mind:

continues....

When Muruganar read a verse, even
I could get the broad outlines of
its meaning. He would read each verse four or five times. I would unconsciously memorize the verse, even as Muruganar read it. Next, he would set about explaining it to me. He would quote extensively
from great works like Tirumandiram, Tiruvachakam, TirukkuraL and Naaladiyar. At times, I felt quite bewildered by the profusion of information that seemed to be swirling around my head!

My difficulties could not have escaped his attention. This great scholar had the compassion to come down to my level and to teach me the rudiments of grammar, so that I could appreciate the poetry better. He would explain the rules which governed combination of words, and train me to read the poetry the way it was meant to be read.

At the end of one of our classes, I said, "Swami! I very much regret the fact that I am not quite familiar with the Tamizh language. If only I had known the language, I could have memorized all these verses without much difficulty. I feel that I am not a pupil worthy
of a teacher of your calibre. I am really very sorry." Murugnar replied: "It does not matter if these lessons do not leave an impression upon your brain. It is enough if your heart is genuinely moved by the poetry."

Even as he said these words, my teacher's eyes filled with tears and his voice became hoarse with emotion. Needless to say, he himself had experienced that state of total emotional involvement with such spirited works and it is a measure of his infinite grace that he should have wished me to have an experience similar to his own.

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Of the Self, God and avatars:

[From David Godman's Chapter 19
of Be As You Are.]

At first sight, Sri Ramana's statements on God appear to be
riddled with contradictions. On
one occasion, He might say that God never does anything. On another that nothing happens except by His will. Sometimes He would say that God is just an idea in the mind, while at other times He would say that God is the only existing reality. These contradictory statements are largely a reflection of the differing levels of understanding He encountered in His questioners.

At the highest level of His teachings, the terms God and Self are synonyms for the immanent reality which is discovered by Self realization. Thus realization of the Self is realization of God. It is not an experience of God, rather it is an understanding that one is God. Speaking from this ultimate level, Sri Ramana's statements on God can be summarized in the following way:

1. He is immanent and formless; He is pure Being and pure Consciousness.

2. Manifestation appears in Him and through His power, but He is not its creator. God never acts. He just is. He has neither will nor desire.

3. Individuality is the illusion that we are not identical with God. When the illusion is dispelled what remains is God.

On a lower level, He spoke about Iswara, the Hindu name for the supreme personal God. He said that Iswara exists as a real entity only so long as one imagines that one is an individual person. When individuality persists there is a
God who supervises the activities of the universe. In the absence of individuality Iswara is non existent.

Besides Iswara, Hinduism has many deities which resemble the gods and demons of Norse and Greek mythology. Such deities are a central feature of popular Hinduism and their reality is still widely accepted. Sri Ramana surprised many people by saying that such beings were real as the people who believed in them. He admitted that after realization, they shared the same fate as Iswara, but prior to that, He seemed to regard them as senior officials in a cosmological hierarchy which looked after the affairs of the world.

From Maharshi's Gospel:

Q: God is described as manifest and unmanifest. As the former he is said to include the world as a part of his being. It that is so, we as part of that world should have easily known him in the manifest form.

Answer: Know yourself before you seek to decide about the nature of God and the world.

Q: Does knowing myself imply knowing God?

A: Yes. God is within you.

Q: Then, what stands in the way of my knowing myself or God?

A: You wandering mind and perverted ways.

Q: Is God personal?

A: Yes. He is always the first person, the I, ever standing before you. Because you give precedence to worldly things, God appears to have receded to the background. If you give up all else and seek him alone, he alone will remain as the 'I', the Self.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Of Self, God and the avatars:

[From David Godman's Be As You
Are - chapter 19]:

continues....

From Talks:

Q: Is God apart from the Self?

A: The Self is god. "I am" is God.
This question arises because you are holding on to the ego self. It will not arise if you hold on to the true Self. For the real Self will not and cannot ask anything. If God be apart from the Self, he must be a Self-less God, which is absurd.

From Guru Vachaka Kovai:

God, who seems to be non existent, alone truly exists, whereas the individual, who seems to be existing, is ever non existent. Sages say that the state in which one thus knows one's own non existence [sunya] alone is the glorious supreme knowledge.

From Talks:

You now think that you are an individual, that there is the universe and that God is beyond the cosmos. So there is the idea of separateness. This idea must go. For God is not separate from you or the cosmos. The Gita also says this in Ch.X.20.

Thus God is not only in the heart of all, he is the prop of all, he is the source of all, their abiding place and their end. All proceed from him, have their stay in him, and finally resolve into him. Therefore he is not separate.

Q: How are we to understand this passage in Gita: "This whole cosmos forms a particle of me"?

A: It does not mean that a small particle of God separates from him and forms the universe. His sakti (power) is acting. As a result of one phase of such activity the cosmos has become manifest. Similarly, the statement in Purusha Sukta, "All beings form his one foot." does not mean that Brahman is in several parts.

Q: I understand that Brahman is certainly not divisible.

A: So the fact is that Brahman is all and remains indivisible. It is ever realized but man is not aware of this. He must come know this. Knowledge means the overcoming of obstacles which obstruct the revelation of the eternal truth that the Self is the same as Brahman. The obstacles taken together form your idea of separateness as an individual.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Of Self, God and avatars:

[From David Godman's book,
Be As You Are.]

From GVK:

Q: God seems to be known by many
different names. Are any of them
justified?

A: Among the many thousands of
names of God, no name suits God, who abides in the Heart, devoid of thought, so truly, aptly and beautifully as the name "I" or "I am". Of all the known names of God, the name of God "I" - "I" alone will resound triumphantly when the ego is destroyed, rising as the silent supreme word, mouna para vak in the Heart-space of those whose attention is Selfward facing.

Conscious Immortality:

Q: Is there a separate being Iswara [personal god] who is the rewarder of virtue and punisher of sins? Is there a God?

A: Yes.

Q: What is he like?

A: Iswara has individuality in mind and body, which are perishable, but at the same time, he has also the transcendental consciousness and liberation inwardly.

Iswara, the personal God, the supreme creator of the universe, really does exist. But this is true only from the relative standpoint of those who have not realized the truth, those people who believe in the reality of individual souls. From the absolute standpoint the sage cannot accept any other existence than the impersonal Self, one and formless.

Iswara has a physical body, a form and name, but it is not so gross as this material body. It can be seen in visions in the form created by the devotee. The forms and names of God are many and various and differ with each religion. His essence is the same as ours, the real Self being only one and without form. Hence forms he assumes are only creations or appearances.

Iswara is immanent in every person and every object throughout the universe. The totality of all things and beings constitutes God. There is a power out of which a small fraction has become all this universe, and the remainder is in reserve. Both this reserve power plus the manifested powers as material world together constitute Iswara.

Talks:

Q: So ultimately Iswara is not real?

A: Existence of Iswara follows from our conception of Iswara. Let us first know whose concept he is. The concept will be only according to the one who conceives. Find out who you are and the other problems will solve themselves.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Spiritual Stories as told by
Bhagavan Ramana - Asramam
Publiation - 2010 edition:

Deliverance of a Thorn Bush:

One of the devotees who had heard
the verses written by Sri Bhagavan
about the deliverance of Lakshmi, the Cow, approached Him and said,
"Swami, we ourselves see that the animals and birds are getting deliverance at your presence. But is it not true that only human beings can get moksha?

"Why? It is stated that a great saint gave moksha to a thorn bush,"
said Sri Bhagavan with a smile. The devotee eagerly asked who that great saint was and what was the story about the thorn bush.

In Chidambaram, there was a Jnani by the name of Umapathi Sivacharya. He was a poet and also a pandit. As he was in a transcendental state of spirituality [athita sthithi], he did not pay much attention to the usual brahminical practices. Hence, the dikshitars of the place became angry with him, especially since he was a learned man and knew all the precepts of the Hindu religion. They forbade him living in the village or even visiting the temple. He therefore lived in a small hut built on a raised ground outside the village. A low caste man called Pethan Samban used to supply him with all that he required and also helped him in a general way. As things went on like this, one day, when Pethan was carrying on his head a bundle of firewood to the hut, Iswara Himself met him on the way in the guise of the dikshitar in charge of the temple. He wrote a verse on a palmyra leaf and gave it to him, telling him that it was handed over to Umapathi Sivacharya, and then disappeared.

Pethan gave that verse to Sivacharya, who on opening it, found in the first line itself the words, "Adiyarkadiyen ChitrambalavaNan" (the servant of the devotees, the Lord of Chidambaram). Immediately, he was overwhelmed with the devotion that a thrill passed through his body as he read the letter. The gist of the verse was: "A note from Chidambaranathan, the servant of the devotees, to the person who has set up a new establishment, namely Sivacharya. It is your duty to give initiation to this Pethan Samban regardless of caste and to the surprise of all people."

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Spiritual Stories as told by
Bhagavan Ramana - continues...

He read the letter and was over
-whelmed with joy. In obedience to the orders of the Lord, he initiated Pethan into the order of sannyasa, though he belonged to the lowest caste. In due course, he gave nayana diksha [transmission of Power through the eyes] to Pethan, immediately after which Pethan merged into Holy Light. Sivacharya himself was immensely surprised at this occurrence and only then understood the wisdom of Pethan.

Enemies of Sivacharya noticed the sacrificial offerings and other things he had for this initiation. They complained to the king that Sivacharya had burnt to death Pethan for some mistake, he might have committed. When the king came there with his retinue to enquire into the complaint, Sivacharya showed the verse of Lord Nataraja and said that he gave initiation to Pethan and that Pethan vanished thereafter in the form of a divine light [jyoti]. The king was surprised and asked Sivacharya if he could likewise give initiation and moksha to the thorn bush nearby. "Yes, What doubt is there?" said Sivacharya. Accordingly he gave nayana diksha to that thorn bush and that too immediately disappeared in pure light [jyoti].

The king was still more astonished at that and said, "This looks like some black magic. You said this note has been written by Lord Nataraja. Let us go and ask Him." Sivacharya pointed out that there was a ban on his entering the temple. The king said that wouuld not matter as he himself was accompanying Sivacharya.

Accordingly they started for the temple together. Hearing all this, all the people, --- the pundits, the common people curious about the whole thing and enemies of Sivacharya who were sure that he would be duly punished -- flocked to the temple to see the strange sight. The two entered the temple. Out of regard for the king, when Arti [waving of light] was offered to Nataraja it was found that on either side of the Lord stood Pethan and the thorn bush! The pundits were surprised and out fear and remorse, fell at the feet of Sivacharya requesting him to pardon them for all their faults. They subsequently brought him back into the village with due honours.

****

Subramanian. R said...

From The Silent Power - Asramam
Publication - 2009 edition:

Jagannath Chattopadhyaya:

To a Bengali, who has been accustomed
to hear the Lord's name chanted with fervour and devotion, accompanied by dancing and sankirtan, as introduced into Bengal by Lord Gouranga more than four hundred years ago, Sri Bhagavan's method of enquiry in absolute stillness of the mind, presents a sharp contrast. In the life of Sri Bhagavan I am confronted with a towering personality, the likes of which I have never seen or heard or come across in books.

He never ran down any religion or the traditions sponsored by a religion. For instance, the Hindu caste system has become a target of criticism by preachers and reformers but Sri Bhagavan would never attack it outright. When asked whether we should ignore caste rules, He said, "Not in the beginning. Observe them to start with. They serve as a check on the vagaries of the mind and it is thus purified. On the same subject, He says, "Differences always exist, not only in human beings but also in plants, animals, etc., This state of affairs cannot be helped. You need not notice these distinction. There is diversity in the world but a unity runs through the diversity. The Self is the same in all. There is no difference in spirit. The differences are external and superficial. Find the unity and you will be happy."

I myself am a disciple of Sri Sitaramdas Omkarnath Maharaj, the strict follower of sanatana dharma, the eternal dharma based on Vedas and Upanishads, to which foreigners has given the name Hinduism. He is also an upholder of our varnasrama dharma or caste dharma. I therefore very much appreciate the Maharshi's respect for every religion. Once, for instance, He told a Muslim devotee to try to understand and follow what the word Islam means -- "the total surrender of the ego."

Sri Bhagavan's courageous message, reminding us of our heritage of the rishis of old, gives us faith and courage despite the gloom of the present day materialism, to seek liberation from bondage to the non-Self, the fake ego, which causes the sorrows and frustrations of life.

*****

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER; "Please cure my illness. I cannot chant the name and glories of God."
DOCTOR; "Meditation is enough."
MASTER: "What do you mean? Why should I lead a monotonous life? I enjoy my fish in a
variety of dishes: curried fish, fried fish, pickled fish, and so forth! Sometimes I worship
God with rituals, sometimes I repeat His name, sometimes I meditate on Him, sometimes I
sing His name and glories, sometime I dance in His name."
DOCTOR: "Neither am I monotonous."
MASTER: "Your son Amrita does not believe in the Incarnation of God. What is the harm
in that? One realizes God even if one believes Him to be formless. One also realizes God if
one believes that God has form.
Faith and self-surrender
Two things are necessary for the realization of God; faith and self-surrender. Man is
ignorant by nature. Errors are natural to him. Can a one-seer pot hold four seers of milk?
Whatever path you may follow, you must pray to God with a restless heart. He is the Ruler
of the soul within. He will surely listen to your prayer if it is sincere. Whether you follow
the ideal of the Personal God or that of the Impersonal Truth, you will realize God alone,
provided you are restless for Him. A cake with icing tastes sweet whether you eat it straight
or sidewise.
"Your son Amrita is a nice boy."
DOCTOR: "He is your disciple."
MASTER (with a smile): "There is not a fellow under the sun who is my disciple. On the
contrary, I am everybody's disciple. All are the children of God. All are His servants. I too
am a child of God. I too am His servant. 'Uncle Moon' is every child's uncle!
"
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

From Fragrant Petals: Asramam
Publication - 2005 edition:

Dr. M. Anant Naryan Rao:

I met Sri Ramana one day in May
1932. He was sitting on an easy
chair in the Old Hall. His kindly
face, His smile and His sparkling
eyes come before my mind's eye,
whenever I think of Him. That evening I saw Him sitting in the open space in the Asramam well, a dozen people sitting near Him. Some of them were in meditation,
and some others asked Sri Ramana questions to solve their difficulties in their spiritual practices. I took asked Him a couple of questions about certain happenings when I meditated. His answers were short, clear and to the point. Here was a person, who in a few moments cleared the doubts which many others had not been able to answer, to whom I had put the same questions. I at once felt the greatness of Sri Ramana.
My visit to the Asramam lasted only a couple of days, but I visited the Asramam off and on when I managed to get leave or during holidays.

In 1942, I took long leave preparatory to retirement and lived near the Asramam in a small house which had a pleasant garden. About September that year, I wished to see Gurumurtham and the adjoining garden where Sri Ramana was first met by his uncle. The garden then was well wooded with mango and other trees. A good description of it is given in Sri Ramana's biography, Self Realization by B.V. Narasimhaswamy. But when I saw the garden I found it almost bare, except for a few mango trees that were still standing and large well in the garden. The well had parapet wall and in that wall was a large niche in which a man could sit comfortably for meditation. There were steps leading to the niche. Someone near the well told me that Sri Ramana used to sit in that niche. I returned to the Asramam late in that evening, found Sri Ramana in the Hall and sat there. Since I had taken Sri Ramana's permission to go and see the place, He asked me if I had seen it. I then described to Him how the bare garden was and also told Him about the niche in the wall, and what the man had told me. Sri Ramana immediately described to us how the garden had been and said that the well must have been constructed long after He left the garden. He added that the man's words were not correct. He used to sit in a small shed in the garden. He then described the condition in He used to be.

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

Nice. This describes the true path
of devotion that leads one to surrender. When Sri Ramakrishna says that he is the disciple of all, it shows his humility, which is the pathway to God.

Sri Bhagavan also says, in Sri
Arunachala Akshra Mana Maalai, Verse 104:

Anbodu un naamam keL anbar tham
anbarkku
Anban aaiyida aruL Arunachala!


Let me be a loving servant of the devotees of those devotees who hear your Name with love, O Arunachala.

Total humility and god-intoxication at all times are the hall marks of these two great jnanis. Once Viswantha Swami washed Sri Bhagavan's codpiece and towel and when Sri Bhagavan noticed this, He said, "Viswanatha, you give your dhoti and towel tomorrow to me. I should wash them!"

*****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian,
" He said, "Viswanatha, you give your dhoti and towel tomorrow to me. I should wash them!"
Yes,these were Great Human beings,simple and so unassuming.This is sahaja bhava.
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
MASTER: "There is a sect of Vaishriavas known as the Ghoshpara, who describe God as
the 'Sahaja', the 'Simple One'. They say further that a man cannot recognize this 'Simple
One' unless he too is simple.
(To M.) Have I any ego?"
M: "Yes, sir. A little. You have kept it to preserve your body, and to enjoy divine love in
the company of the devotees and impart spiritual knowledge to them. Further, you have
kept this trace of ego by praying to the Divine Mother for it."
MASTER: "No. I have not kept it. It is God Himself who has left it in me. Can you tell me
how I appear in the state of samadhi?"
M: "As you said a little while ago, you see the form of God when your mind rises to the
'sixth plane'. When you speak after that, your mind comes down to the 'fifth plane'."
MASTER: "It is God who does all these things. I do not know anything."
M: "That is why you attract people so much."

The power of attraction that these great ones exuded is on account of this utter simplicity.

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

Yes. This conversation of Thakur
clearly shows how simple he was.
Such is the state of Jnanis. They
have no ego or a trace of ego, as
SRK said, to turn the mind outward
for puja and chanting.

In Sri Arunachala Aksharamana Maalai, Sri Bhagavan says, in Verse 90:

Ramanan enRu uraithen rosam koLathu
enai
Ramithida seiya vaa Arunachala!

Here it has got two meanings:

I, Ramana said all this. do not be offended, come to me and make me
happy and blissful, O Arunachala!

The second meaning is more appropriate.

You being Ramana [beloved one], I said this. Do not be offended. Instead come to me and make me happy and blissful, O Arunachala!

One overzealous devotee, used to sing Ramanar instead of Ramanan since Sri Bhagavan cannot be called in singular suffix. One day Sri Bhagvan noticed this and said, Why Ramanar? It is only Ramanan. At this rate, you will call Sivan also as Sivar.

The devotee became ashamed.

Jnanis always consider them as lowliest of the lowly. There is no need for overzealous respect and greetings.

****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna that captures the master at his charming and humourous best:
The conversation turned to Amrita, a disciple of Keshab.
RAM: "Amrita Babu seems to be in very bad shape."
MASTER: "Yes, he looked very ill when I saw him the other day."
RAM: "Sir, let me tell you about the lectures of the New Dispensation. While the drum is
being played, the members cry out, 'Victory unto Keshab!' You say that 'dal' grows only in
a stagnant pool. So Amrita said one day in the course of his sermon: 'The holy man has no
doubt said that 'dal' grows in a stagnant pool. But, brothers, we want 'dal', we want a sect.
Really and truly, I tell you that we want a sect.' "
MASTER: "What nonsense! Shame on him! What kind of sermon is that?"
The conversation drifted to the desire of some people for praise.
MASTER: "They took me to Keshab's house to see a performance of the Nimai-sannyās. I
heard, that day, someone speaking of Keshab and Pratap as Chaitanya and Nityananda.
Prasanna asked me, 'Who are you then?' Keshab looked at me to see what I would say. I
said to him, 'I am the servant of your servant, the dust of the dust of your feet.' Keshab said
with a smile, 'You can't catch him!'"

RAM: "Sometimes Keshab used to say you were John the Baptist."
A DEVOTEE: "But Keshab also said you were the Chaitanya of the nineteenth century
[said in English]."
MASTER: "What does that mean?"
DEVOTEE: "That Chaitanya has been incarnated again in the present century of the
Christian era, and that you are he."
MASTER (absent-mindedly): "What of it? Can you tell me now how my arm can be cured?
This arm is worrying me so much."
They talked about Trailokya's music. Trailokya sang devotional songs in Keshab's Brahmo
Samaj.
MASTER: "Ah! How nice his songs are!"
RAM: "Do you think they are genuine?"
MASTER: "Yes, they are. Otherwise, why should I be so drawn to them?"
RAM: "He has composed his songs by borrowing your ideas. While conducting the
worship Keshab Sen described your feelings and realizations, and Trailokya Babu
composed songs accordingly. Take this song, for instance:
There is an overflow of Joy in the market-place of Love;
See how the Lord sports with His own in the ecstasy of Bliss!
He saw you enjoying divine bliss in the company of devotees and wrote songs like this."
MASTER (with a smile): "Stop! Don't torment me any more. Why should I be involved in
all this?" (All laugh.)
GIRINDRA: "The Brahmos say that the Paramahamsadeva has no faculty for organization
[said in English]."
MASTER: "What does that mean?"
M: "That you don't know how to lead a sect; that your intellect is rather dull. They say
things like that."
(All laugh.)
MASTER (to Ram): "Now tell me why my arm was hurt. Stand up and deliver a lecture on
that. (Laughter)

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Fragrant Petals:

Dr. Anant Narayan Rao:

continues...

Sri Bhagavan then described the
state in which he used to be [in
Gurumurtham. At one moment, He
would feel that it was morning but
at the next moment it was
evening. He was in a blissful state. I at once understood that He
had had no awareness of time and consequently no awareness of space.
He was beyond these, in the super
conscious condition of Sat Chit Ananda. He described to us how blissful He had felt. We too, as we heard His description, were transported into a very happy state and when He stopped His narrative we felt as if we had been suddenly flung back into the humdrum of life of the busy world. His grace flowed into us and made us very happy. Many people experienced happiness when they say in His Presence, without even a word being spoken! He had in Him this great power.

I have had the privilege of massaging His legs, feet and arms along with His usual attendants appointed by the Asramam authorities. One night as I was waiting near His couch, I saw Him walking slowly with a limp in his left leg and hip which He was massaging as He walked. When He came near the couch I asked Him what had happened and He said that He had shooting pain in the thigh up to the hip. I then requested His permission tom rub the part with some wintergreen oil. He agreed and I took the oil from the Asramam dispensary, made Him lie flat on the couch and rubbed the area with a small quantity of the oil. This gave Him relief. I then asked Him to lie down on the bed and not to merely recline on the pillows as He usually did. I told Him that He would get more rest by lying flat. But He smiled at me and reclined on His pillows, saying in His usual way, that He had not slept flat on the ground or on the couch ever since He came to Tiruvannamalai. He added that He could get in few moments more rest than we could by sleeping on a nice bed for hours at a stretch. This puzzled me for some time and then it struck me that Sri Ramana went into Samadhi about which we had no experience. How wonderful must that state be!

Near the couch of Sri Bhagavn, there was a small shelf which contained a few bottles of medicated oils. One of te devotees would rub His knees with the oil before Sri Bhagavan got down from His couch to go out. Once He had a small eczema patch on His foot and leg which was dressed daily with an
ointment. He wanted some of the ointment to be left on the shelf with a small pot. I went to Him that afternoon with a small pot containing the ointment. When I approached Him I heard Him snore lightly and thought He was asleep.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

Nice anecdote. Why should a
Jnani like SRK start a sect or
a new religion. He was living
within the large ambit of Hinduism
and made the world to know and understand how every type of sub-
religions are accommodated in it.
He was a religion by himself. And
so was Sri Bhagavan Ramana. They
have more organizational capacity
than anyone else, because "devotees
organized themselves" in groups to
listen to their words of pearls.
They had no need to prove their leadership qualities, because they did not believe in such leaderships which are man made.

Where are Arya Samaj and Brahmo Samaj today? But the path of SRK and Sri Bhagavan within the ambit of Hinduism flourishes even today. One more similarity is that they did not believe in miracles. Even
at their terminal illnesses, they did not ask Kali or Arunachala to help themselves out. They obeyed the writ of Kali and Arunachala.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Fragrant Petals -

Dr. M. Anant Naryan Rao:

continues....

I therefore wondered whether to
replace the pot on the shelf quietly or to wait until He awoke. Within a trice He opened His eyes, smiled and asked me why I was waiting there without handing over the ointment to Him. I replied that since He was asleep I did not wish to disturb Him. He at once asked me how I had concluded that He was asleep. I mumbled some reply, handed over the pot to Him and sat in the Hall along with the other devotees. Sri Bhagavan again closed His eyes and began snoring lightly. At that moment, a devotee, a newcomer to the Asramam, came near the couch and prostrated. Sri Bhagavan at once opened His eyes and smiled at Him. Again Sri Bhagavan reverted to sleep. An inmate of the Asramam came and prostrated. Sri Bhagavan did not open His eyes, but practically on the Asramite's heels, a newcomer entered and prostrated. Sri Bhagavan immediately opened His eyes, looked at him and smiled. The reaction of Sri Bhagavan when new devotees entered the Hall meade me feel that He was fully aware of the events though in a state of samadhi. This state, I believe is called Sahaja Samadhi.

During a certain period which dressing the tumour on His elbow, I had to wipe it daily with rectified spirits. One day the spirits from the swab flowed down His arm and body. He at once commented that He was having "a spirit bath" and that everyone should have such baths. I did not understand the significance of this remark and asked Him to kindly explain it to me. He smilingly said that fish are always in water and cannot bear coming out of it. Similarly, we are in "Spirit of Consciousness" and should always remain in it as fish in water. In other words, one should always consciously abide in Pure Consciousness or Self. That made me realize that He was always in Sahaja Samadhi. He often, used small incidents to give deep words of instruction. His similes were such that one could not forget them.

Sri Ramana Bhagavan, as shown in the few incidents narrated here, was "That" which had limited itself in a human body for our sake and to instruct us to attain that state. He is our Guru. There is a Sanskrit verse which says, "Guru is Brahma, Guru is Vishnu and Guru is Maheswara Deva." Guru is verily Pure Brahman. And that is what Sri Ramana means to me.

concluded.

S. said...

salutations to all:

Ravi/Subramanian:
[..."One more similarity is that they (thAkur & bhagavAn) did not believe in miracles. Even at their terminal illnesses, they did not ask Kali or Arunachala to help themselves out. They obeyed the writ of Kali and Arunachala. "...]

hahahahahaha... i don't have any of the 'faith' that so many in this blog have, but can say this definitively - kAli "is" thAkur; aruNAchalA "is" bhagavAn :-))) - if the Mother doesn't show the way, who else will? if the Father doesn't walk the talk, who else can? while writing this comment, jim reeves' rendition of the wonderful 'take my hand, precious lord, lead me home' was gently wafting within... :-)

Subramanian. R said...

Dear S.,

In their non dual states of
Consciousness, they were one
with Kali and Arunachala respectively. In fact, in that
state Kali = Arunachala = Self.
But from the onlookers point of view, the respective devotees,
in fact, requested SRK/Sri Bhagavan to pray or at least have a sankalpa that their illnesses should be cured. While SRK went to Kali, he came back without asking. Perhaps, he might have only said: "Why are you testing me?" Sri Bhagavan did not do that. The devotees on that eventful night,
suddenly started chanting Arunachala Siva, Arunachala Siva. He moved a little forward from His slanting position and looked at them and from His eyes joyful tears rolled down.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Once in the Hall, some devotee
asked Sri Bhagavan: "Bhagavane!
You are a Jnani and I am an
ajnani. Can you tell me about
your State and teach me how to
attain that?"

Sri Bhagavan replied: "If you
consider me as a Jnani, then for
a Jnani, there are 'no others'. So
I cannot teach you anything. If
I am an ajnani then both of us are in the same position. I cannot describe or teach you anything. In
either way, I cannot teach you anything."

Sri Bhagavan has also said: There
are no Jnanis. There is only Jnanam, the one without a second.

That is why we are not able to understand the states of either SRK or Sri Bhagavan. Because their states have to be 'experienced'
and not learned.

Sri Bhagavan has also said: People are telling that they are not able to dispense with their thoughts. I am telling I am not able to have even a single thought! Then how did they do the duties that they
were doing in life? How did Sri Sankara and Sri Bhagavan wrote treatises and poems?


Murunganar Swami says in GVK 1139:

If it is asked, 'We actually see the Jnani performing actions. How can actions be performed in the absence of doership?' you should be convinced that because his inner attachment [the ego] is dead, he has God himself residing in his Heart and performing those actions.

See also Sri Ramana Reminiscences - G.V. Subbaramayya.


****

S. said...

salutations to all:

Subramanian & Others:
am yet to know who i am, but wouldn't mind surmising that to the realised there are no states of consciousness, self-knowledge being a state beyond all states & without any states. of course, since a student out of ignorance sees such differences within oneself, he obviously can't help but visualise the same in the master as well! a student shall recognise with profit that whatever a master does or doesn't, say or not, is only for the sole purpose of instruction, though the master himself may suffer from no categories of 'teacher' & 'taught' :-)

as regards thAkur approaching the Mother, it's precisely the same as jnAnasambandhar composing decads for deliverance! it's not as it bhagavAn was 'perfect' & thAkur was 'pure'; rather, 'perfection' and 'purity' derive their very meanings from bhagavAn & thAkur :D. but for Mother & Father, who can 'live' in the way bhagavAn & thAkur lived??? does rAma seeking counsel from vashiShTa or bemoaning the loss of sItA imply he wasn't nArAyaNa then? wasn't he nArAyaNa through & through? bhagavAn & thAkur are irrefutable evidences of the "one" who proclaimed a long time ago 'sambhavAmi yuge yuge', isn't it?

isn't it true that if one has accepted someone as one's guru, sAdhanA can't progress without seeing one's guru to be none other than god himself? (more so, if it's bhakti!) personally, but for thAkur, bhavatAriNI would have been no more than a finely crafted piece of sculpture; but for bhagavAn, aruNAchalA would have been not too dissimilar from an arbitrary assembly of boulders! :-)

Ravi said...

R.subramanian/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"MASTER: "As long as there is the body, one should take care of it. But I find that the body
is quite separate from the Self. When a man rids himself entirely of his love for 'woman and
gold', then he clearly perceives that the body is one thing and the Self another. When the
milk inside the coconut is all dried up, then the kernel becomes separated from the shell;
you feel the kernel rattling inside when you shake the coconut. Or it is just like a sword and
its sheath. The sword is one thing and the sheath is another.
"Therefore I cannot speak much to the Divine Mother about the illness of the body."
GIRISH (to the devotees): "Pundit Shashadhar said to him [meaning the Master]: 'Please
bring your mind to bear on the body during samadhi. That will cure your illness.' And he,
the Master, saw in a vision that the body was nothing but a loose mass of flesh and bones."
MASTER: "Once, a long time ago, I was very ill. I was sitting in the Kali temple. I felt like
praying to the Divine Mother to cure my illness, but couldn't do so directly in my own
name. I said to Her, 'Mother, Hriday asks me to tell You about my illness.' I could not
proceed any farther. At once there flashed into my mind the Museum of the Asiatic Society,
and a human skeleton strung together with wire. I said to Her, 'Please tighten the wire of
my body like that, so that I may go about singing Your name and glories.'
The Master was absolutely childlike.While he could not bring himself to ask the Divine mother to cure his throat,it is utterly disarming how he asked the doctor to cure his throat!!!Here is that excerpt:
Like a child Sri Ramakrishna said to the physician, "Sir, please cure my throat."
DOCTOR: "Do you ask me to cure you?"
MASTER: "The physician is Narayana Himself. I honour everybody. You may say that if I
look on all as Narayana then I should keep quiet. But I also accept the words of the
'mahut Narayana'.
"The Pure Mind and the Pure Atman are one and the same thing. Whatever comes up in the
Pure Mind is the voice of God. God alone is the 'mahut Narayana.'
"Why should I not listen to God? He alone is the Master. As long as He keeps 'Iconsciousness'
in me, I shall obey His orders."
The doctor was going to examine Sri Ramakrishna's throat. The Master said, "Dr.
Mahendra Sarkar pressed my tongue the way they press a cow's."
Like a child Sri Ramakrishna said to the physician, pulling at his shirt-sleeves again and
again, "Sir! My dear sir! Please cure my throat." Looking at the laryngoscope, he said with
a smile: "I know it. You will see the reflection in it."
The utterly childlike Master made himself thoroughly accessible in this bewitching manner-often giving the devotees the impression that he is dependent on them!

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

s,
Wonderful posts.
Namaskar.

Ravi said...

s/R.Subramanian/friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna that deals with the closing period of the Great Master's life on terra -firma:

Master's great suffering
M. was seated by his side. Sri Ramakrishna asked him by a sign to come nearer. The sight
of his suffering was unbearable. In a very soft voice and with great difficulty he said to M:
"I have gone on suffering so much for fear of making you all weep. But if you all say: 'Oh,
there is so much suffering! Let the body die', then I may give up the body."
These words pierced the devotees' hearts. And he who was their father, mother, and
protector had uttered these words! What could they say? All sat in silence. Some thought,
"Is this another crucifixion-the sacrifice of the body for the sake of the devotees?"
It was the dead of night. Sri Ramakrishna's illness was taking a turn for the worse. The
devotees wondered what was to be done. One of them left for Calcutta. That very night
Girish came to the garden house with two physicians, Upendra and Navagopal.
The devotees sat near the Master. He felt a little better and said to them: "The illness is of
the body. That is as it should be; I see that the body is made of the five elements."
Turning to Girish, he said: "I am seeing many forms of God. Among them I find this one
also [meaning his own form]."
Monday, March 15, 1886
About seven o'clock in the morning Sri Ramakrishna felt a little better. He talked to the
devotees, sometimes in a whisper, sometimes by signs. Narendra, Rakhal, Latu, M., Gopal
of Sinthi, and others were in the room. They sat speechless and looked grave, thinking of
the Master's suffering of the previous night.
His vision of unity
MASTER (to the devotees): "Do you know what I see right now? I see that it is God
Himself who has become all this. It seems to me that men and other living beings are made
of leather, and that it is God Himself who, dwelling inside these leather cases, moves the
hands, the feet, the heads. I had a similar vision once before, when I saw houses, gardens,
roads, men, cattle-all made of One Substance; it was as if they were all made of wax.
"I see that it is God Himself who has become the block, the executioner, and the victim for
the sacrifice."
As he describes this staggering experience, in which he realizes in full the identity of all
within the One Being, he is overwhelmed with emotion and exclaims, "Ah! What a vision!"
Immediately Sri Ramakrishna goes into samadhi. He completely forgets his body and the
outer world. The devotees are bewildered. Not knowing what to do, they sit still.
Presently the Master regains partial consciousness of the world and says: "Now I have no
pain at all. I am my old self again."
The devotees are amazed to watch this state of the Master, beyond pleasure and pain, weal
and woe.
He casts his glance on Latu and says: "There is Loto. He bends his head, resting it on the
palm of his hand. I see that it is God Himself who rests his head on His hand."
Sri Ramakrishna looks at the devotees and his love for them wells up in a thousand streams.
Like a mother showing her tenderness to her children he touches the faces and chins of
Rakhal and Narendra."

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

R.subramanian/s/Friends,
Both R.Subramanian and s are right(thAkur as devotee of kAli,thAkur is verily kAli) as we find in this excerpt from The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Master about himself
A few minutes later he says to M., "If the body were to be preserved a few days more,
many people would have their spirituality awakened."
He pauses a few minutes.
"But this is not to be. This time the body will not be preserved."
The devotees eagerly await the Master's next words.
"Such is not the will of God. This time the body will not be preserved, lest, finding me
guileless and foolish, people should take advantage of me, and lest I, guileless and foolish
as I am, should give away everything to everybody. In this Kaliyuga, you see, people are
averse to meditation and japa."
RAKHAL (tenderly): "Please speak to God that He may preserve your body some time
more."
MASTER: "That depends on God's will."
NARENDRA: "Your will and God's will have become one."
Sri Ramakrisna remains silent. He appears to be thinking about something.
MASTER (to Narendra, Rakhal, and the others): "And nothing will happen if I speak to
God. Now I see that I and the Mother have become one. For fear of her sister-in-law, Radha
said to Krishna, 'Please dwell in my heart.' But when, later on, she became very eager for a
vision of Krishna-so eager that her heart pined and panted for her Beloved-He would not
come out."
RAKHAL (in a low voice, to the devotees): "He is referring to God's incarnation as
Gauranga."
The devotees sit silently in the room. Sri Ramakrishna looks at them tenderly. Then he
places his hand on his heart He is about to speak.
MASTER (to Narendra and the others): "There are two persons in this. One, the Divine
Mother-"
He pauses. The devotees eagerly look at him to hear what he will say next.
MASTER: "Yes, One is She. And the other is Her devotee. It is the devotee who broke his
arm, and it is the devotee who is now ill. Do you understand?"

The devotees sit without uttering a word.
MASTER: "Alas! To whom shall I say all this? Who will understand me?" Pausing a few
moments, he says:
"God becomes man, an Avatar, and comes to earth with His devotees. And the devotee
leave the world with Him."
RAKHAL: "Therefore we pray that you may not go away and leave us behind."
Sri Ramakrishna smiles and says:
"A band of minstrels suddenly appears, dances, and sings, and it departs in the same sudden
manner. They come and they return, but none recognizes them."
The Master and the devotees smile.
Namaskar.

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/s/friends,
Here is the the very first letter-from Letters from Sri Ramanasramam-that wonderfully sets the tone for what followed-undoubtedly the letters captures Sri Bhagavan in all his aspects.
21st November, 1945
(1) THE SON IS BEHOLDEN
TO THE FATHER
Brother, you have asked me to write to you from time
to time whatever striking happens in Sri Bhagavan’s
presence and what Sri Bhagavan says on such occasions.
But am I capable of doing so? Anyway, I will make an
attempt and am beginning this very day. The attempt will
succeed only if Bhagavan’s Grace is on it.
The day before yesterday being full moon, the usual
Deepotsava (festival of lights) was celebrated on a grand scale.
This morning Sri Arunachaleswarar started for giri pradakshina
(going round the hill) with the usual retinue and devotees
and accompaniment of music. By the time the procession
reached the Ashram gate, Sri Niranjanananda Swami (the
Sarvadhikari) came out with Ashram devotees, offered coconuts
and camphor to Sri Arunachaleswarar, and paid homage when
the procession was stopped and the priests performed arati
(waving of the lights) to the God. Just then Sri Bhagavan
happened to be going towards the Gosala (cowshed) and seeing
the grandeur he sat down on the pial near the tap by the side
of the book depot. The arati plate offered to Arunachaleswarar
was brought to Bhagavan by Ashram devotees and Sri
Bhagavan took a little Vibhuti (holy ashes) and applied it to his
forehead, saying in an undertone “Appakku Pillai Adakkam”
(The son is beholden to the father). His voice seemed choked
with emotion as he spoke. The expression on his face proved
the ancient saying “bhakti poornathaya Jnanam” (the culmination
of devotion is knowledge). Sri Bhagavan is Lord Siva’s son.
Sri Ganapati Muni’s saying that he is Skanda incarnate, was
confirmed. It struck us that Bhagavan was teaching us that
since all creatures are the children of Ishwara, even a Jnani
should be beholden to Ishwara.
We can never tell how pregnant with meaning are the
words of Mahatmas. You ask me to write somehow, but how
can I convey the exquisite beauty of his utterances? How
can I describe adequately? I wrote in a recent poem that
every word that falls from his lips is scripture. Why talk of
his words alone? If one has the ability to understand, his
very gaze and gait, his action and inaction, inhaling and
exhaling — everything about him is full of meaning. Have I
the capacity to understand and interpret all this?
With full
faith in Sri Bhagavan’s grace, I shall write to you whatever
occurs to me, serving Sri Bhagavan with the devotion of the
squirrel to Sri Rama.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

Friends,
Madhurashtakam is a wonderful Hymn by Sri Vallabhacharya on the exquisite sweetness of Lord Sri Krishna.The same is applicable to both Sri Ramakrishna and sri Bhagavan.Here is the Hymn:

adharaḿ madhuraḿ vadanaḿ madhuraḿ

nayanaḿ madhuraḿ hasitaḿ madhuraḿ

hṛdayaḿ madhuraḿ gamanaḿ madhuraḿ

madhurādhi-pater akhilaḿ madhuraḿ


vacanaḿ madhuraḿ caritaḿ madhuraḿ

vasanaḿ madhuraḿ valitaḿ madhuraḿ

calitaḿ madhuraḿ bhramitaḿ madhuraḿ

madhurādhi-pater akhilaḿ madhuraḿ


veṇur madhuro reṇur madhuraḥ

pāṇir madhuraḥ pādau madhurau

nṛtyaḿ madhuraḿ sakhyaḿ madhuraḿ

madhurādhi-pater akhilaḿ madhuraḿ


gītaḿ madhuraḿ pītaḿ madhuraḿ

bhuktaḿ madhuraḿ suptam madhuraḿ

rūpaḿ madhuraḿ tilakaḿ madhuraḿ

madhurādhi-pater akhilaḿ madhuraḿ


karaṇaḿ madhuraḿ taraṇaḿ madhuraḿ

haraṇaḿ madhuraḿ ramaṇaḿ madhuraḿ

vamitaḿ madhuraḿ śamitaḿ madhuraḿ

madhurādhi-pater akhilaḿ madhuraḿ


guñjā madhurā mālā madhurā

yamunā madhurā vīcī madhurā

salilaḿ madhuraḿ kamalaḿ madhuraḿ

madhurādhi-pater akhilaḿ madhuraḿ


gopī madhurā līlā madhurā

yuktaḿ madhuraḿ bhuktaḿ madhuraḿ

hṛṣṭaḿ madhuraḿ śiṣṭaḿ madhuraḿ

madhurādhi-pater akhilaḿ madhuraḿ



gopā madhurā gāvo madhurā

yaṣṭir madhurā sṛṣṭir madhurā

dalitaḿ madhuraḿ phalitaḿ madhuraḿ

madhurādhi-pater akhilaḿ madhuraḿ



TRANSLATION
1) His lips are sweet, His face is sweet His eyes are sweet, His smile is sweet His heart is sweet, His gait is sweet—Everything is sweet about the Emperor of sweetness!

2) His words are sweet, His character is sweet His dress is sweet, His belly-folds are sweet His movements are sweet, His wandering is sweet—Everything is sweet about the Emperor of sweetness!

3) His flute is sweet, His foot-dust is sweet His hands are sweet, His feet are sweet His dancing is sweet, His friendship is sweet—Everything is sweet about the Emperor of sweetness!

4) His singing is sweet, His yellow cloth is sweet His eating is sweet, His sleeping is sweet His beauty is sweet, His tilaka is sweet—Everything is sweet about the Emperor of sweetness!

5) His deeds are sweet, His liberating is sweet His stealing is sweet, His love-sports are sweet His oblations are sweet, His tranquility is sweet—Everything is sweet about the Emperor of sweetness!

6) His gunja-berry necklace is sweet, His flower garland is sweet His Yamuna river is sweet, His ripples are sweet His water is sweet, His lotuses are sweet—Everything is sweet about the Emperor of sweetness!

7) His gopis are sweet, His pastimes are sweet, His union is sweet, His food is sweet, His delight is sweet, His courtesy is sweet — Everything is sweet about the Emperor of sweetness!

8) His gopas are sweet, His cows are sweet His staff is sweet, His creation is sweet His trampling is sweet, His fruitfulness is sweet—Everything is sweet about the Emperor of sweetness!

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear S and Ravi,

I agree with both of you.
A Jnani's state cannot be
discerned by any other person
who is not a Jnani. Unless
we become another Sri Bhagavan
and SRK, we can never understand
their State. We are all only
making statements about that State.

There was a born blind person.
His young child started hiccuping
and crying. The blind father
asked his friend sitting nearby: "What happened to the child?"
The friend said: "The child has
in a hurry, swallowed a portion
of the milk and it has gone into
windpipe?" The blind asked father: "How is milk?" "It is white liquid!" "What is white?" How
to describe the "whiteness"?
The friend answered: "It will be like a stork!" "How will a
stork be?" The friend showed his elbow with the bent wrist and asked the blind person to touch it. The blind person said: "Oh, if such a long and bent milk
goes into the mouth of the child, what else can happen but to hiccup and cry?"

We are all like this blind father.

Sombiyai summa sukam uNdu
uRangidil sol veru en gathi
Arunachala! [Sri AAMM].

Sri Bhagavan was a lazy person
ever drinking the Sukam, the Bliss
of the Self. He was lazy and was also sleeping in that turiya state. How to explain this State
of His?

******

Subramanian. R said...

Spiritual Stories as told by
Bhagavan Ramana: Asramam
Publication - 11th edition - 2010:

WITH THE MOON IN THE CROWN:

The venerable Sundaramurthi was born in the amsa of Aalaala Sundara, who emanated from the reflection of Lord Siva, the Somasekhara, with the moon in his crown. He acquired the friendship of the Kerala king, Cheraman Perumal Naayanar, in the course of his wanderings as a pilgrim, and together they both went to Madurai on pilgrimage. The Pandyan King as well as his son in law, the Chozha King, extended a warm welcome to them and expressed their happiness at being their hosts. Sundarmurthi worshipped God Sundareswara and the consort of Siva, Goddess Meenakshi, and sang hymns in praise of the Lord with his poetic skill. Accompanied by the Chera King, he visited TirukuRRalam, Tirunelveli and Rameswaram. From there, he visited the sacred shrine of Tirukedeswara in Lanka
Dweepa [Ceylon], and offered worship. Then he remembered Trisulapuram, [Tiruchuzhi] which is the Muktinagar [city of salvation] and proceeded thither. As they approached that city, the crowds saw them both resplendent as though the sun and the moon appeared at the same time. Sundarmurthi wads happy to have the darshan of Lord Bhuminatha and offered worship with the song beginning, "Oona uyir puhalai" and was overwhelmed with devotion. He decided to stay in that holy place for a while, and resided in the Math on the bank of the river Koundinya.

One night during his stay there, Lord Siva appeared to him in a dream with a ball in his hand [ball is the symbol of kingship] and a crown on his head, as a youth of incomparable beauty/ With a smile dancing on his lips, he said, "We stay in Jyotirvana [Kaleswara]" On hearing these words, Sundarmurthi woke up with excitement and recollected the glorious kindness of the Lord who appeared and showered benevolence on him, and narrated the wonderful vision to the Chera King with joy. There and then he sang, overwhelmed with devotion, the Tevara Padigam commencing with the words, "ThoNdar Adithodalalum" on Lord Kaleeswara.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

With the moon in his crown -
continues....

From there they started to visit
the far off holy place Tirupunnaivayil. Even as they started, Kaleeswara [who appeared in the dream of Sundarmurthi] and Amba approached them in the guise of an old brahmin couple. When Sundaramurthi asked them, "Who are
you? Where do you come from?", they replied, "We shall talk about it later. First give us food. We are hungry." Sundaramurthi consented, got the food prepared and looked for the couple, but they were not to be seen anywhere. All the lanes and bylanes of the village were searched but they could not be found anywhere. They came back to the Math only to find that the food had disappeared and the leaves in which the food were eaten were scattered all over the place.

Sundarmurthi exclaimed: "Ah, what a wonder is this! What can this be except the leela of the Lord of the Universe?" As he arrived at this conclusion he heard an invisible voice: "Where do you intend going without seeing us who reside in the Jyotirvana?" Sundarmurthy was wondering where that Jyotirvana was and how to go there. The invisible voice once again said, "We are proceeding there on the vehicle of the sacred bull Nandi. You may also come there, following its footsteps."

Sundaramurthy followed the footsteps, accompanied by the devotees, but suddenly the track disappeared. As he stood there in confusion, the invisible voice was heard to say, "Look carefully." As he followed carefully the footsteps, he saw a particular place full of Siva Lingas. There was no space even for a single step forward and he saw a narrow footpath and they went along it, on and on until at last they beheld the temple of Kaleeswara. They all took their bath in the tank in front of the temple, and as they were thinking of going into the temple, all of a sudden the temple with its tower disappeared. Sundarmurthi was wonder-struck and sang some songs in praise of the Lord, conveying the idea: "Is this the result of my not having come for worship in your temple before bathing?"

At once, a whole view of Jyoti [Light] appeared and the peak view of a temple tower and then the temple itself with its compound wall. He was overjoyed, had a darshan of God, worshipped Him, sang songs in praise of Him, and then proceeded on his pilgrimage. This is a wonderful story. There are many stories of him.

{The temple town is today called KaLaiyar Kovil.]

concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Direct Teaching of Bhagavan
Ramana - Sri V. Ganesan - 2nd
edition - 2011:

Maharshi: The Self being always
the Self, why should only a dhira
be illumined? Does dhira mean a man
of courage? No. dhih = intellect.
rah = watch; protection. So dhira is the one who always keeps the mind inward bent without letting it loose.

- Talks No. 352

Maharshi: "I am that I am" "I am" is God - not thinking, "I am God". Realize "I am" and do not think, I am. "Know I am God" - it is said, and not 'Think I am God'.

Later Sri Bhagavan continued: It is said "I AM THAT I AM". That means a person must abide as the "I". He is always the "I" alone.
He is nothing else. Yet he asks, "Who am I?" A victim of illusion would ask, "Who am I?" and not a man fully aware of himself. The wrong identity of the Self with the non-self makes you ask, "Who am I?"

Later still: "There are different routes to Tiruvannamalai, but Tiruvannamalai is the same by whichever route it is gained. Similarly the approach to the subject varies according to the personality. Yet, the Self is the same. But still, being in Tirunvannamalai, if one asks for the route it is ridiculous. So also being the Self, if one asks how to realize the Self it looks absurd. You are the Self. Remain as the Self. That is all. The questions arise because of the present wrong identification of the Self with the body. That is ignorance. This must go. On its removal the Self alone is.

- Talks No. 354

"The 'I' which rises will also subside. That is the invdividual
'I' or the 'I'-concept. That which does not rise will not subside. It is and will be for ever. That is the universal "I", the perfect "I", or realization of the Self."

- Talks No. 311

Subramanian. R said...

From Fragrant Petals: Asramam
Publication - 2005 edition:

Tears of Ecstasy:

By Ramanapadananda:

I was a broker and my business
took me all over India. Once,
when while in Kashmir, I heard
of Sri Bhagavan. So, soon after
my return to Madras, I visited Tiruvannamalai and proceeded to the Asramam. When I saw Sri Bhagavan, He was sitting on a bench inside a long room thatched with coconut leaves put up over His mother's tomb. This was in January 1928 when the Asramam consisted practically of just this structure alone and nothing else. The moment I saw Sri Bhagavan I was overcome by an inexplicable feeling of deep joy and devotion. I burst into tears and could not stop them for a long time. I had had a chequered career and had no peace of mind. But in His presence, I experienced complete peace of mind, and extraordinary bliss. The next day I was fortunate enough to have darshan of Sri Seshadri Swamki as well.

Although I had to return to Madras, my heart was with Sri Bhagavan. So I came back again in 1930 and was blessed by Sri Bhagavan with a smile and a piercing look. This time also I was overcome by an uncontrollable flow of tears of joy. The same thing happened when I visited the house at Tiruchuzhi in which Sri Bhagavan was born. The moment I entered the house my tears of ecstasy flowed to the surprise of everybody there. None of them had the least idea of Sri Bhagavan's greatness. They thought that Venkataraman had merely become a sannyasin and gone to Tiruvannamalai like other sannyasin. When I explained His greatness to them they were deeply impressed.

On all my subsequent visits to Sri Bhagavan, I experienced the same bliss and flow of tears. Sri Bhagavan Himself noticed this. One a tender calf came running and prancing to Sri Bhagavan, when He sat grinding blackgram for 'vadai'. Seeing this, Polur Srinivasa Ayyar, who was nearby remarked that this calf danced about like Padananda. Upon this Sri Bhagavan said: "Who can shed copious tears of joy like him at the very mention of Bhagavan's name?" Sri Bhagavan also used to greet me very often with the words: "I never feel that you are away from the Asramam. I always feel that you are here."

In 1930, I proceeded north on a sudden impulse. I went to Varanasi, Hardwar, Rishikesh and Badrinath. At Badrinath, I met Sri Swami Tapovanji. Impressed by my devotion to Sri Bhagavan, he composed a sloka in Sanskrit in which he invoked, "Sri Bhagavan's blessings on Ramanapadananda who sheds copious tears at the very mention of His name."

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Swami Ramanapadananada -
continues:-

Although I was made very comfortable at Badrinath by the Swamiji and the head priest of the temple and was even granted a piece of land at Bhrigu Dara, I felt I could not stay there. I returned to Tiruvannamalai. At Varanasi I had been advised to wear ochre robes, the recognized dress of sannyasin, as a means of obtaining alms daily. I had continued to wear them, but, when I came before Sri Bhagavan in them, He burst our laughing and said, 'Giving up the ego is the real sannyasa, not the wearing of ochre robes." At once I discarded them and have since then worn only white.

Convinced that Sri Bhagavan was the substratum of the Universe and the most glorious avatar that has been witnessed till now, I felt that it was my duty to make His greatness known everywhere. So I resigned my post of a broker in the well known company of Bombay Co., at Madurai, much against the wishes of Sri B.V. Narasimha Swami and others. I proceeded to celebrate Ramana Jayanti at various places such as Ceylon, Burma and Malaya with puja, music, discourses, processions, etc., and installed Ramana's portraits all the places I visited.

There were several instances, in which Sri Bhagavan's grace was particularly bestowed upon me. Once I met Sri Bhagavan, on His way up the Hill and prostrated myself before Him and said: "I have now had Sri Bhagavan's darshan, I can go." Upon this Sri Bhagavan smiled and said: "Whose darshan to whom? Why don't you say that I had your darshan?" This has been recorded in Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi.

On another occasion, I was trying to meditate in a small Siva temple at Gokarnam. I was feeling frustrated because I could not continue to make enquiry "Who am I?" successfully. Suddenly I felt that my body had become exactly like that of Sri Bhagavan as it appears in the photograph in the book Self Realization. I fell into a trance and do not know how long I remained in that state. When I regained consciousness I wrote to Sri Bhagavan quoting a well known song of Ramalinga Swamiugal beginning with, "I cannot endure my torments any longer." But without waiting for a reply, I left for Tiruvannamalai where I arrived two days before Mahasivaratri. When Sri Bhagavan asked me why I had come away from Gokarnam when thousands of people were going there for Sivaratri, I replied that Sri Bhagavan was my Lord Siva and that I had, therefore, come for this darshan.

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Ramanapadananda:
continues...

I would often bring honey
with me when I came to the
Asramam. On such occasions, Sri
Bhagavan would remark: "I was just
thinking of honey and you have brought it!" Once, when i came from
Madurai, Sri Bhagavan asked me whether I had brought 'sellu', a special preparation which is offered to the deity at Azhagar Kovil and then distributed as prasadam to devotees. I immediately rushed back to Madurai without informing anybody and came back quickly with a large quantity of 'sellu'. When some of it was served on Sri Bhagavan's leaf plate, He said to me, "I asked you only in a casual way whether you had brought any, you went all the ay to Madurai and got it!"

On another occasion, my brother in law sent, at my request, a dealwood box of sugar candy made of palymra juice from Tiruchendur. I thought it would be good for Sri Bhagavan's asthma. When Sri Bhagavan saw it, He observed, "I just thought of this kind of sugar candy and here you have already got it for me." I used to obtain jack fruits from Panruti and mangoes from Salem, Sri Bhagavan would see that they were properly cut and distributed to all.

I obtained for Sri Bhagavan's use an easy chair, specially made with a foot rest, from Curzon & Co., the well known furniture makers of Madras. It is now used on Deepam day for Sri Bhagavan's portrait. But when I got His sofa repaired without His knowledge, He refused to sit on it for a long time. It was only when He saw my extreme devotion, that He relented and agreed to sit on it once more.

It is Sri Bhagavan's grace which has finally brought me to the Asramam to spend my last days near Him. Salutations to Sri Bhagavan.

*****

Than kadan adiyenaiyum thaanguthal,
En kadan paNi seithu kidappathe!

Your duty is to take care of me.
My duty is to serve you in many
respects.
- Saint Tirunavukkarasar

Subramanian. R said...

Direct Teaching of Bhagavan Ramana -
Sri V. Ganesan - Asramam Publication:

Blossoms of Blessings:

Mrs. Jennings: Sri Bhagavan says that the state of Realization is freedom from tyranny of thoughts. Have not the thoughts get a place in the scheme of things, may be on a lower plane?

Maharshi: Thoughts arise from the 'I'-thought, which in turn, arises from the Self. What does it matter, if there are thoughts or no thoughts?

Devotee: Are good thoughts helpful for Realization? Are they not authentic via media, a lower rung of the ladder, to Realization?

Maharshi: Yes. -- this way. They keep off the bad thoughts. They must themselves disappear before the state of Realization.

Devotee: But are not creative thoughts an aspect of Realization and therefore helpful?

Maharshi: Helpful only in the way
said before. They must all disappear in the Self. Thoughts, good or bad, take to farther and not nearer, because the Self is more intimate than thoughts. You are the Self, whereas the thoughts are alien to the Self.

Devotee: So the Self finally absorbs its own creation which had helped its Realization. Whereas civilization wrongly worships and so separates and 'short circuits'
its own creations which had helped its advance.

Maharshi: Are you not distinct from thoughts? Do you not exist without them? But can the thoughts exist without you?

- Talks No. 341

Devotee: Does Bliss consist only in the absence of unhappiness or is it anything positive?

Maharshi: It is positive. Loss of unhappiness and rise of happiness are simultaneous.

- Talks No. 372

Devotee: Why are there so many Gods mentioned?

Maharshi: The body is only one.
Still, how many functions are performed by it? The source of all
functions is only one. It is in the same way with the Gods also.

- Talks No. 371

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
Kanakammal's reminiscences-"At the end of one of our classes, I said, "Swami! I very much regret the fact that I am not quite familiar with the Tamizh language. If only I had known the language, I could have memorized all these verses without much difficulty. I feel that I am not a pupil worthy
of a teacher of your calibre. I am really very sorry." Murugnar replied: "It does not matter if these lessons do not leave an impression upon your brain. It is enough if your heart is genuinely moved by the poetry."

Even as he said these words, my teacher's eyes filled with tears and his voice became hoarse with emotion. "

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Chaitanyadeva set out on a pilgrimage to southern India. One day he saw a man reading
the Gita. Another man, seated at a distance, was listening and weeping. His eyes were
swimming in tears. Chaitanyadeva asked him, 'Do you understand all this?' The man said,
'No, revered sir, I don't understand a word of the text.' 'Then why are you crying?' asked
Chaitanya. The devotee said: 'I see Arjuna's chariot before me. I see Lord Krishna and
Arjuna seated in front of it, talking. I see this and I weep.'

Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

Very nice. There is one such similar
story. When Chaitanya Mahaprabhu
went to Puri Temple, there was one
person [who was not pronouncing
Govinda properly and was chanting aloud Kopinda, Kopinda and he was
deliberately kept outside the temple on the other side of the walls]. When Chaitanya entered the Temple, he ignored all poorna kumbha and other respects from the priests and ran to the other side of the wall. He heard that man chanting Kopinda, Kopinda and Chaitanya shed tears and stayed with him!

Similarly in another story about
Guruvayur, one Poonthanam an illiterate was reading Vishnu
Sahasranama, and recited Padmanabha, Mara prabho, instead of Amara prabho! Melpathur Namoodri, an educated brahmin, who wrote Narayaneeyam, shouted at him and asked him to get out of the temple. The poor man went outside. In the night, Melpathur had a dream where Guruvaurappan showed him as sitting on top of all trees with flute in his hand. He then told Namboodri, Don't be proud about your learning. I am also the Lord of maras i.e trees, not merely amaras, devas. Namboodri felt ashamed and called that Poonthanam next day and allowed him continue his chanting of Vishnu Sahasranama.

Does education and worldly learning take us to God? No. Sri
Bhagavan has also said the same thing in Who am I?; Thaan is within pancha koshas and not outside in books....No point in reading spiritual books endlesssly.

But we are doing just the opposite.

S. said...

salutations to all:

Subramanian:
["...No point in reading spiritual books endlessly. But we are doing just the opposite..."]

interesting observation :-)))

Anonymous said...

David,
New post please!

Anonymous said...

Long time since we heard from Scott Fraundorf. Hope he is doing fine. Anyone has any updates on him?

Subramanian. R said...

Spiritual Stories as told by
Bhagavan Ramana - Asramam
Publication - 2010 edition:

A devotee told Sri Bhagavan
about his ill-health, treatment
by doctors and services rendered
to him by his servants. Sri Bhagavan did not immediately reply to him, but in the evening, when the devotees all gathered, He began massaging His own legs with oil. Looking at the questioner with a smile, He said, "We are our own doctors and our own servants."
The questioner then said, 'What are we to do if we do not have strength like Sri Bhagavan to attend to our own work?' Sri Bhagavan's reply was: "If we have
strength to eat, why should we not have strength to do this?" The questioner could not say anything and so kept silent with his head bent. Just then the post arrived. After looking through the letters,
Sri Bhagavan narrated the following story:

Once a certain sannyasi was anxious to be the head of a Math. He had to have disciples, you see and he tried his level best to secure some. Anyone who came, soon found out the limited knowledge of the person and so went away. No one stayed on. What could he do?

One day, he had to go to a city. There he had to keep up his position. But he had no disciple. No one must know this. His bundle of clothes etc., was on his head. So, he thought he would place the bundle in some house unobserved and then pretend to go there afterwards. He wandered throughout the place. Whenever he tried to step into a house, he found a number of people in front of it! Poor chap! What could he do? It was almost evening. He was tired. At last he found a house with no one in front. The door was open. Greatly relieved, he placed the bundle in one corner of the house and then sat in the verandah.

After a while the lady of the house came out and enquired who he was. "Me! I am the Head of a Math in such and such a place. I came to this city on some work. I heard that you were good householders. I therefore sent my belongings through my disciple to put them in your house for the night and go away morning. Has he done so?" "No one came, sir", she said. "No please. I asked him to put the bundle here, go to the bazaar and get some things. Kindly see if he has put it in any corner," he said. When the lady searched this side and that, she saw the bundle in one corner. Thereupon, she and her husband welcomed him and gave him food, etc.,

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

The Head of a Math:
continues...

The couple had by then understood
the sannyasi's true position. They
thought they would see further fun
and so went into the house to lie
down. Then the person started his acting. He opened the door and closed it, making a loud noise so as to be heard by the members of the household. He then said loudly, "Why! What have you been doing so long? Take care -- if you do it again, I shall beat you black and blue. Be careful henceforth." Changing his tone thereafter, he said in a plaintive voice, 'Swami, Swami, please excuse me. I shall not do it again." Assuming the original tone, he said, "All right. Come here, massage my legs. No, there. Please hit lightly with your fists. Yes, a little more." So saying, he massaged his own legs and then said, "Enough. It is rather late. Go to bed." So saying, he went to sleep. There was a hole in the wall of the room where the couple were staying and through it, they saw the whole farce.

In the early morning, the sannyasi again began repeating the evening's performance, saying, "You lazy fellow! The cocks have begun to crow. Go to so and so's house and come back after doing such and such work." So saying, he opened the door, pretended to send him away and went back to bed. The couple saw this.

In the morning, he bundled up his belongings, put the bundle in a corner, and went to a tank nearby for bathing, etc., The couple took the bundle and hid it somewhere. The sannyasi returned and searched for the whole room but the bundle was not found anywhere. So he asked the lady of the house, "Where is my bundle?" The couple then replied: "Sir, you disciple came here and took away the bundle saying that you wanted him to bring it to you. It is the same person who massaged your legs last night. He must be round the corner. Please see, Swami."

What could he do then? He kept his mouth shut and started going home.

This is what happens if a disciple serves you. Just like me, we are our own servants.

So saying, Sri Bhagavan pretended to massage His legs with his hands and fists.

concluded.

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
Interesting story about poonthAnam.Please refer to this site which has a good translation of ponnthAnam's work-'Jnana pAna'-'JnAna Pot'.
http://www.celextel.org/stotras/other/jnanapana.html
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Testimony of Islam to Sri Bhagavan's Life and Teachings - From The Silent Power, Asramam Publication - 2009
edition:

Dr. M. Hafiz Syed:

The greatness of Sri Ramana Maharshi's unique life and teachings consists in the fact that he was unacquainted with the scriptures of the world and yet after His Self- Realization, the Knowledge of Infinity was open to Him. To quote a line from Patanjali's Yogs Sutra, "When an unlettered person's mind is made one-pointed, the inner and outer knowledge is revealed to him. He comes in direct contact with the supreme Source of his Being."

The devotees of Sri Ramana are acquainted with His simple and uneventful life. He lived a plain life to the end. He was without any pose or pretensions. Not omly that He was a great teacher and lived in a high plane of His own but He was utterly human in everyday life. He had love and sympathy for every living creature as a true Brahmin should have. He mended His own stick, took part in the cutting of vegetables and cooking some food now and then. His sense of unity and equality of mankind was so great that He never accepted anything prepared for Himself but had it distributed equally to all persons present in His Hall. Men of every race, caste, creed, sex, high and low, rich and poor, visited Him and to Him all were alike. He never showed any preference to men of position or looked down upon a pariah or a panchama. To Him all were accessible.

So was the Prophet of Islam. He believed in the brotherhood of man and treated all men alike. He used to say to his followers, Ana mislakum, that is, "I am one like you". To him Jew or Gentile, Muslim or non-Muslim were alike. Whenever a non-Muslim visited him when he was sitting in his mosque engaged in prayer he would at once rise up from his seat, spread his own cloak and seat him respectfully. He mended his own shoes and patched up his own worn-out garment. Nothing was left in his household for the morrow. All that he received during the course of a day was distributed to the needy and the poor. He often said Al faqr fakhri, that is to say, 'poverty is my pride.' He took keen interest the welfare of human beings and used to retire to a cave for spiritual meditation. Thus we see there is a close similarity between his life and our beloved Maharshi.

We all know how Maharshi repeatedly enjoined us to surrender completely to God's will and be at peace with all, sink and bury our differences. In fact once, He said, "Burn hem and turn to the abode of peace, your own Heart." Islam is derived from the root Salma which means peace, tranquillity, and finally surrender oneself to the Divine. "The word Islam", says Deutch, a German writer, "implies absolute submission to God's will". Hazrat Ali, the fourth Caliph, the son-in-law of the Prophet said that "No one can have any conception of God unless he knows his own Self." Thus confirming Sri Bhagavan's repeated teachings in all His well known books.

continued.....

Subramanian. R said...

Testimony of Islam to Sri Bhagavan's
Life and Teachings: Dr. M. Hafiz Syed, continues...

One mystic poet said, "What I have done with myself, no one has ever done it for himself, Within my own house [body] I have lost the owner of my house [that is my own Self]."
Does it not bear testimony to Sri Bhagavan's inspiring words?

Further it is said in the Quran, "We are of God and to Him shall we return" [Quaran, Chapter II, Verse 156]. This clearly indicates whence we came and whither we are going. Man's inherent divinity is expressed in these unequivocal words of the Quaran: "God breathed His own breath in the nostril of man. Man was created after the face of God."

In the Ghaznavids and Early Saljuq's period there was a great philosopher-poet Nasir-e-Khusrau, who was acknowledged as a mystic of a great order. In his poem Raushani Nama on Self Knowledge he writes, bearing full testimony to Sri Bhagavan's well known teachings:

Know yourself; for if you know yourself
You will also know the difference between good and evil.
First become intimate with your own inner being,
Then become the commander of the whole company.
When you know yourself, you know everything;
When you know that, you have escaped from all evil.

You don't know your own worth, because you are like this;
You see God Himself, if you see yourself.
The nine spheres and seven stars are your slaves,
Yet you are your body's servant; that's a pity!
Don't be fettered to bestial pleasures
If you are a seeker of that supreme blessedness.
Be a real man and abandon sleep and fasting;
Pilgrim like, make a journey into yourself.
What are sleep and fasting? The business of brute beasts;
It is by knowledge that your soul subsists.
Be wakeful for once; how long have you been sleeping?
Look at yourself; you're something wonderful enough.
Reflect now; regard from where you've come
And why you are now in this prison.
Break the cage; depart to your own celestial station;
Be an idol-breaker like Abraham, Azar's son.
You were created after this fashion for a purpose;
It will be a shame, if you neglect that purpose.
It is a shame for an angel to take orders from a devil;
It is a shame for a king to be servant to a door-keeper.
Why must Jesus be blind?
It is wrong for Karun to be one eyed.
You have snakes coiled over your treasure,
Kill those snakes, and be free of pain;
But if you feed them you will become fearful.
You'll have nothing of that boundless treasure.
There's a treasure in your house,
yet you're a beggar;
You have a slave in you hand, yet your heart is wounded;
You are asleep; how will you reach journey's end?
You weave charms, and are heedless
of the treasure. Quick,
break the charm and take the treasure;
Take a little pain, and rid yourself of pain,


continued...

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

Thank you for the link about Poonthanam and Jnanappanai. I know
a bit of his life story after I watched the Malayalam serial on
Guruvayurappan some two years back.
Nevertheless I shall go through this
link also.

****

Subramanian. R said...

Testimony of Islam to Sri Bhagavan's
Life and Teachings:

continues....

Jalaluddin Rumi, prince of mystics, quoted by R.A. Nicholson, in his
Rumi, the Poet and the Mystic, says:

Jalalu'l-Din was asked, "Is there any way to God nearer than the ritual prayers?" "No", he replied,
"but prayer does not consist in forms alone. Formal prayer has a beginning and an end, like all forms and bodies and everything that partakes of speech and sound;
but he soul is unconditoned and infinite. It has neither beginning nor end. The prophets have shown the true nature of prayer....Prayer is the drowning and unconsciousness of the soul, so that all these forms remain without. At that time, there is no room even for Gabriel, who is pure spirit. One may say that the man who prays in this fashion is exempt from all religious obligations, since he is deprived of his reason. Absorption in the Divine Unity is the soul of prayer."

"When a fly is plunged in honey, all the members of its body are reduced to the same condition, and it does not move. Similarly the term istighraq [absorption in God] is applied to one who has no conscious existence or initiative or movement. Any action that proceeds from is not his own. If he is still struggling in the water, or if he cries out, "Oh, I am drowning", he is not said to be in the state of absorption. This is what is signified by the words Ana'l-Haqq, "I am God". People imagine that it is presumptuous claim, whereas it is really a presumptuous claim to say, Ana'l-'abd - I am the slave of God - and Ana'l Haqq - I am God, is an expression of great humility. The man who says, Ana'l-abd, I am the slave of God', affirms two existences, his own and God's. But he that says Ana'l-Haqq - I am God has made himself non existent and has given himself up and says, I am God. This is the extreme humility and self abasement."

These two quotations bear the fullest and clearest testimony to Sri Bhagavan's teachings as embodied in his books Self Enquiry and Who am I? and others.


concluded.

Subramanian. R said...

Speaking for Smt. Meenakshi Muruganar:

Smt. Meenakshi is wife of Ramanathapuram Krishna Iyer Subrahmanya Iyer, otherwise known to Sri Bhagavan's devotees as Muruganar. She used to be in the Asramam in the early years and she used to sing Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai songs often in the Hall. She
was a humble lady, but ever feeling the pain due to disinterest that Muruganar showed on her. She was not cared that at one time, she was wearing an old sari, almost tattered, that Sri Bhagavan told the devotees to get a new sari from Isanya Math to be given to her.

Muruganar came for good to Asramam in July 1926. His mother had passed away and he had also resigned his job as a teacher.

Smt. Kanakammal says that Muruganar had left some money with one Melai Sivapuri Subramanya Chettiar for the expenses of Smt.
Meenakshi. I do not know how long this trust fund of Muruganar lasted for the livelihood of Smt. Meenkashi.

Once in some other blog, one member wrote that once Smt. Meenakshi came to her mother's house [in Chennai?] and asked for a cup of coffee. She was in great distress then, financially and mentally. The mother of that member-lady asked Smt. Meenkashi to come in and take rest and also sing some songs. She sang nicely some songs from Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai. She was given coffee and also food with an assurance, that she could come at any time to their house and take food and coffee.

Last night when I was reading Smt. Kanakkamal's book on Muruganar this incident quoted by that member came to my mind.

I think when a person becomes a Brahma Jnani, he/she leaves behind a sorrowing wife/mother/sister and even children. History has got many examples. Starting from the Buddha, [visualize the crying Yasodhara], or Punitavati [Karaikal Amma] who was herself distressed because her husband deserted her due to her divine qualities or Tirunavukkarasar who simply disappeared to a Jain monastery leaving her sister who was taking care of him, as a mother right from his childhood. {Of course, Tirunavukkarasar came back to her with a colic pain and it was her devotion to Siva that cured him.]. We have also Mother Azhagamma who had given her son to the world, and lived a life of sorrow and penury for almost 20 years, till her son permitted her to stay with Him.

This post may be like looking things from the wrong end of the
telescope. But the underlying facts are to be remembered.

In Periya Puranam, Siva came in the guise of an old brahmin and stopped the wedding of Sundaramurthi. But Siva Himself later made him to marry two wives!
What happened to the bride who was left without the wedding being completed? Who has written about her sorrow and pain?

Recently we of course know the story of Kanchi Mahaswami who took
up sannyasa at the age of 13 leaving his mother in painful condition of separation. Of course Saradamani's story is again well known. She was living in Nahbat cooking food and doing other oddjobs. Sri Ramakrishna was many years elder to her, at the time of marriage. She came to see him in Dakshineswar but had to live a life of separation practically, which of course, helped her in her own spiritual progress.

Again, the case of Jesus Christ.
How long he could take care of
Mother Mary. He told Magadalene:
Please take care of Mary as your Mother.

So, behind every Brahma Jnani, there is always a sorrowing wife/sister/mother. Perhaps this is the way, God works out things for him.

I shall be glad to have considered responses from all of you.

*****

Ravi said...

R.subramanian,
"Sri Ramakrishna was many years elder to her, at the time of marriage. She came to see him in Dakshineswar but had to live a life of separation practically, which of course, helped her in her own spiritual progress."
This is not true.I will post more on this when I find time.Sri Ramakrishna even got her Gold Bangles that our Holy Mother wore even after the passing away of Sri Ramakrishna.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

From the Souvenir to celebrate
Centenary of Advent of Sri Bhagavan:
1896-1996:-

COMMENT ON THE PARTING NOTE:

T.S. VAIDYANATHAN:

The parting note left by Sri Bhagavan, is well known to devotees. The most comprehensive analysis of the note is to be found in the book by Sri B.V. Narasimha Swami. There he analyzes the note very carefully and thoroughly. The razor sharp intellect of BVN with the superior thinking powers of a leading advocate aided by a fund of scriptural knowledge both Biblical and Vedic, makes a thorough analysis of the parting note. The value of BVN's analysis of the parting note can be understood by the fact, that Bhagavan Himself refers to it in a court deposition [where Sri Bhagavan replies to the question by the lawyer about why Bhagavan does not sign His name saying that the author of Self Realization has furnished the answer to this question.]. There, Sri Bhagavan Himself establishes the validity of the relevant portions of the analysis.

The purpose of this note is to raise the attention of the reader about an aspect of the note, which even microscopic vision of BVN appears to have overlooked. That aspect of the note is only very briefly commented upon by BVN based on some circumstantial evidence. For our analysis we will make almost the same assumptions of Sri Bhagavan's state of mind as made by BVN which are that He was in a hurry and possessed by a great frenzy of mind. The note read before revised insertion of a clause, reads as follows in English:

"I am leaving this place, as per his orders. This has entered into a good enterprise. Hence nobody need grieve over this enterprise. To see this money need not be spent.

Your fee has not yet been paid. Two rupees are enclosed herewith.


Thus,

_______

The above is more or less accurate translation of the original Tamizh by Sri Bhagavan. I have slightly changed the English translation of BVN. Now this is letter that Sri Bhagavan was leaving behind before leaving His home. This is what we may call the first draft of Sri Bhagavan's note.

When we draft a note we do so with the assumptions of our knowledge. After that we read the draft with the assumptions of the reader's knowledge. So from His own knowledge point of you the above is ALL the note that Sri Bhagavan wrote. After writing this note, Sri Bhagavan must have read with the intention of finding out what sense the note is going to make to those who are to learn of His departure through it. Now He knows what the reader does not know. What does Sri Bhagavan know? Sri Bhagavan knows the person by whose orders HE is leaving. What about the reader? Will he not raise the question, 'What orders?' 'Whose orders?' Is it Pokkiri Mani's order? Or that other friends order? Who could it be who lured Him away? What is this enterprise? Has He got a job in merchant ship or theatrical troupe which Sri Bhagavan expects to be prosperous financially? What a guagmire of possibilities the above plain note would raise for His family. But as for Sri Bhagavan the person was more familiar than Pokkiri Mani, Sri Bhagavan's own brothers and numerous acquaintances of His. He knew exactly whose order it was. The person was very very familiar to Him.

continued....

CSG said...

Many Bramma-Jnanis continued to live with family members like Janaka, Rama, Krishna, Papaji, Nisargadatta, Sri Ramakrishna, even Ramana later.

Family members always going to worry when a dear one dies or suffers or gets separated or lost or goes to a far-off place. I does not matter whether someone is/has to be Bramma-Jnani or not.

Subramanian. R said...

Dear CSG.,

Death is something irrevocable. What I was writing is about going away from the family, as a Brahma Jnani or to attain Jnana Bodham. In this case, the worst sufferers are mother/sister/wife. It happened in all the cases that I had indicated. The whole thought came after reading Smt. Meenakshi Amma's case, wife of Muruganar.


*****

Ravi said...

Friends,
An excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
SUB-JUDGE: "Sir, we are householders. How long should we perform our worldly
duties?"
MASTER: "Surely you have duties to perform. You must bring up your children, support
your wife, and provide for her in case of your death. If you don't, then I shall call you
unkind. Sages like Sukadeva had compassion. He who has no compassion is no man."
SUB-JUDGE: "How long should one support one's children?"
MASTER: "As long as they have not reached their majority. When the chick becomes a
full-grown bird and can look after itself, then the mother bird pecks it and doesn't allow it
to come near her." (All laugh.)
SUB-JUDGE: "What is a householder's duty to his wife?"
MASTER: "You should give her spiritual advice and support her during your lifetime and
provide for her livelihood after your death, if she is a chaste wife.
"But if you are intoxicated with the Knowledge of God, then you have no more duties to
perform. Then God Himself will think about your morrow if you yourself cannot do so.
God Himself will think about your family if you are intoxicated with Him.
If a landlord
dies leaving behind a minor son, then a guardian appointed by the court takes charge of the
son. These are all points of law; you know them."
SUB-JUDGE: "Yes, sir."
VIJAY: "Ah! Priceless words! God Himself carries on His shoulders all the responsibilities
of a person who thinks of Him with single-minded devotion and is mad with divine love. A
minor gets his guardian without seeking him. Alas, when shall I have that state of mind?
How lucky they are who feel that way!"
TRAILOKYA: "Is it ever possible, sir, to have true knowledge of God while living in the
world? Can one realize God here?"
MASTER (with a smile): "Why do you worry? You are enjoying both treacle and refined
sugar. (All laugh.) You are living in the world with your mind in God. Isn't that true? Why
shouldn't a man realize God in the world'? Certainly he can."
TRAILOKYA: What are the signs of a householder having attained Knowledge?"
MASTER: "His tears will flow, and the hair on his body will stand on end. No sooner does
he hear the sweet name of God than the hair on his body stands on end from sheer delight,
and tears roll down his cheeks. "A man cannot get rid of body-consciousness as long as he
is attached to worldly things and loves 'woman and gold'. As he becomes less and less
attached to worldly things, he approaches nearer and nearer to the Knowledge of Self. He
also becomes less and less conscious of his body. He attains Self-Knowledge when his
worldly attachment totally disappears. Then he realizes that body and soul are two separate
things. It is very difficult to separate with a knife the kernel of a coconut from the shell
before the milk inside has dried up. When the milk dries up, the kernel rattles inside the
shell. At that time it loosens itself from the shell. Then the fruit is called a dry coconut."

continued...

Ravi said...

Friends,
The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...
Signs of God-vision
"The sign of a man's having realized God is that he has become like a dry coconut. He has
become utterly free from the consciousness that he is the body. He does not feel happy or
unhappy with the happiness or unhappiness of the body. He does not seek the comforts of
the body. He roams about in the world as a jivanmukta, one liberated in life. 'The devotee
of Kali is a jivanmukta , full of Eternal Bliss.'
"When you find that the very mention of God's name brings tears to your eyes and makes
your hair stand on end, then you will know that you have freed yourself from attachment to
'woman and gold' and attained God. If the matches are dry, you get a spark by striking only
one of them. But if they are damp, you don't get a spark even if you strike fifty. You only
waste matches. Similarly, if your mind is soaked in the pleasure of worldly things, in
'woman and gold', then God-Consciousness will not be kindled in you. You may try a
thousand times, but all your efforts will be futile. But no sooner does attachment to worldly
pleasure dry up than the spark of God flashes forth."
Force your demand on the Divine Mother
TRAILOKYA: "What is the way to dry up the craving for worldly pleasure?"
MASTER: "Pray to the Divine Mother with a longing heart. Her vision dries up all craving
for the world and completely destroys all attachment to 'woman and gold'. It happens
instantly if you think of Her as your own mother. She is by no means a godmother. She is
your own mother. With a yearning heart persist in your demands on Her. The child holds to
the skirt of its mother and begs a penny of her to buy a kite. Perhaps the mother is
gossiping with her friends. At first she refuses to give the penny and says to the child: 'No,
you can't have it. Your daddy has asked me not to give you money. When he comes home
I'll ask him about it. You will get into trouble if you play with a kite now.' The child begins
to cry and will not give up his demand. Then the mother says to her friends: 'Excuse me a
moment. Let me pacify this child.' Immediately she unlocks the cash-box with a click and
throws the child a penny.
"You too must force your demand on the Divine Mother. She will come to you without fail."

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
The Relationship of Sri Ramakrishna and The Holy mother is something unique in the whole of hagiography.Here is an excerpt of how our Holy Mother Sri sarada Devi came to live in Nahabat,a room just 50 sq.ft!
"The Master therefore utilized the presence of Sarada Devi at Dakshineswar to allow her the right of a wife in the fullest sense as well as to test how far his Brahman-knowledge had raised him above the bodily sense. For a period of about six months this ascetic of ascetics had his wife sleep in his own room and the spiritual awareness of them both put to the acid test. They stood it wonderfully well. The Master's mind went only into deep Samadhi and was never assaulted by bodily passion. He also gave equal credit to Sarada Devi when he said: "Had she not been so pure, who knows whether I would not have lost my self-control? After marriage I had prayed to the Divine Mother, ' O Mother! Remove even the least trace of carnality from the mind of my wife.' When I lived with her, I understood that the Mother had really granted my prayer."

And as for the Holy Mother herself, we have her statement regarding her experiences of those memorable nights: "The divine state, in which the Master used to be absorbed, passes all description. In an ecstatic mood, he would smile or weep, or at times remain perfectly still in Samadhi. This would sometimes continue throughout the night. In that divine presence, my whole body would tremble with awe and I would anxiously await the dawn. For I knew nothing of ecstasy in those days. One night his Samadhi continued for a very long time. Greatly frightened, I sent for Hriday. He came and began to repeat the name of the Lord in the Master's ears. When he had done this for a little while, external consciousness reappeared. After this incident, the Master came to know of my difficulty, and taught me the appropriate names that should be uttered in the ear in particular states of Samadhi. Thenceforth my fear was very much lessened, as he would invariably come to earthly consciousness on the utterance of the particular divine names. But even after this I sometimes kept awake the whole night, as there was no knowing when he would fall into Samadhi. In course of time he came to know of my difficulty. He learnt that even after the lapse of a considerable length of time I could not adjust myself to his Samadhi temperament. So he asked me to sleep separately at the Nahabat."

continued....

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
Sri Ramakrishna and The Holy Mother continued...
"The Master's life combined in itself the highest ideals of the monastic life and those of the householders. The Master always taught men the gospel of renunciation of Kamini-Kanchana (translated literally as 'Woman and Gold', but meaning 'lust and greed') and had it not been for the advent of the Holy Mother into his life, he would have been taken to be only a hard-baked ascetic and nothing more. But his very cordial and affectionate relationship with the Mother, treating her as the first and foremost of his disciples and attendants, has lifted married life above the level of sex and made it a potent spiritual relationship. The crusader against 'Kamini-Kanchana', showed the highest consideration and respect to the Holy Mother. The welcome he extended to her on her first appearance was in itself an unexpected mark of cordiality. Not only was he particular about keeping her in comfort, he even thought of providing something for her future. Calculating the minimum amount required monthly for her maintenance as Rupees six, he had six hundred rupees deposited with the Zamindari Office of Balaram Bose, the interest of which was to go for her maintenance. He divined her liking to wear ornaments and spent three hundred rupees to have a pair of bracelets made for her. There is a tradition according to which Sri Ramakrishna had a vision of Sita at the Panchavati. He found her wearing a pair of bracelets with many tiny facets like diamonds. It was in imitation of these that he made for her gold bracelets which she wore till the last."

continued....

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
Sri Ramakrishna and The Holy Mother continued...
While receiving all her loving services, and moving with her in all frankness and child-like innocence, the Master always maintained an attitude of profound respect towards her as his spiritual counterpart and fulfiller of his life's Mission. This attitude was generally implicit, but sometimes expressed itself in striking little actions. One day the Holy Mother entered the Master's room with his meal. He thought it was his niece Lakshmi, and asked her casually to shut the door, addressing her as 'tui’, an expression meaning 'thou', but used with reference to juniors or inferior persons. When the Holy Mother responded, the Master felt very much embarrassed and said, "Ah! Is it you? I thought it was Lakshmi. Please pardon me." But the Holy Mother tried to pacify him, saying there was nothing wrong in his addressing her like that. But the Master was not satisfied. Next morning he went to the Nahabat and said to the Holy Mother: "Well, I could not sleep all the night. I was so worried because I spoke to you rudely." Referring to this incident, she often said in later times, especially when some of her senseless relations behaved disrespectfully, "I was married to a husband who never addressed me as 'tui'. Ah! How he I treated me! Not even once did he tell me a harsh word or wound my feelings. He did not strike me even with a bunch of flowers!”

It will thus be seen that Sri Sarada Devi received from her husband all that a Hindu wife expects. But some may perhaps object that she had no issue. Her own mother Shyamasundari Devi once lamented: "My Sarada has been married to an ascetic. She will never know the happiness of being addressed as 'mother'. The Master, who happened to hear it, remarked: "Your daughter will have so many children that she will be tired of being addressed day and night as 'Mother'. And countless indeed were her spiritual 'sons' and 'daughters'.In conformity with his ideal, which was hers too, the children born of her were not physical, but spiritual, and of these she had a countless number."

Continued...

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
Sri Ramakrishna and The Holy Mother continued...
we have little record of the Master's spiritual instructions to her and the way in which he imparted them. The Holy Mother seldom spoke on this subject to others. But we know for certain that the Master's teachings had a tremendous effect on her pure mind. To a disciple she gave a glimpse of her inner life in the following words: "During my days at Dakshineswar, I used to get up at 3 o'clock in the morning and sit in meditation. Often I used to be totally absorbed in it. Once, on a moonlit night, I was performing Japa, sitting near the steps of the Nahabat. Everything was quiet. I did not even know when the Master passed that way. On other days I would hear the sound of his slippers, but on this night, I did not. I was totally absorbed in meditation. In those days I looked different. I used to put on ornaments and had a cloth with red border. On this day the cloth had slipped off from my back owing to a breeze, but I was unconscious of it. It seems 'son Yogen' went that way to give the water-jug to the Master and saw me in that condition. Ah! The ecstasy of those days! On moonlit nights I would look at the moon and pray with folded hands, 'May my heart be as pure as the rays of the yonder moon!' Or '0 Lord, there is stain even in the moon, but let there not be the least trace of stain in my mind!'If one is steady in meditation, one will clearly see the Lord in one's heart and hear His voice. The moment an idea flashes in the mind of such a one, it will be fulfilled then and there. You will be bathed in peace. Ah! What a mind I had at that time! Brinde, the maid servant, one day dropped a metal plate in front of me with a bang. The sound penetrated into my heart. In the fullness of one's spiritual realization, one will find that He, who resides in one's heart, resides in the heart of others as well-the oppressed, the persecuted, the untouchable and the out-caste. This realization makes one truly humble."

Continued...

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
Sri Ramakrishna and The Holy Mother continued...
" she was by nature so modest and unassuming that she would seldom speak to others of such facts of her life as might glorify her in their eyes. Sometimes certain happenings leaked out when any of her companions happened to be by her side. One such instance we come across in the account left by Yogin-Ma, of an exalted spiritual mood she witnessed personally in the Holy Mother. We give below her own words, a little abridged:

"When the Mother first came to Dakshineswar, she had not experienced Samadhi. Though she practised meditation and Japa every day with utmost devotion, we did not hear of her going into Samadhi at that time. On the other hand she even felt frightened at the sight of the Master's Samadhi in the days when she slept near him. After I had been acquainted with her for some time, she said to me one day, ‘Please speak to the Master that through his grace I may experience Samadhi. On account of the constant presence of devotees, I hardly get any opportunity to speak to him about it myself.' I thought it was quite right that I should convey to him her request.

"Next morning Sri Ramakrishna was seated on his bed alone when I went to his room and, after saluting him in the usual way, I communicated the Mother's prayer to him. He listened to it, but did not give any reply. Suddenly he became very serious. When he was in that mood, no one dared to utter a word before him. So I left the room after sitting there silently for a while. Coming to the Nahabat, I found the Mother seated for her daily worship. I opened the door a little and peeped in. Strange to say, she was now giggling and the next moment weeping. This went on alternately for some time. Tears were rolling down her cheeks in an unceasing stream. Gradually she became very much withdrawn into herself. I knew she was in Samadhi. So I closed the door and came away.

“A long while after, I went again to her room. She asked me. 'Are you just returning from the Master's room?' I replied, ‘How is it Mother, that you say you never experience Samadhi and other high spiritual moods?' She was abashed and smiled."
The Holy Mother was speaking from experience when she put this idea so beautifully in the following words: "What else does one obtain by realization of God? Does one grow a pair of horns? No, our mind becomes pure, and through that pure mind, comes enlightenment."

Continued....

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/Friends,
Sri Ramakrishna and The Holy Mother continued...
"In conclusion it may be stated here that the training that the Master imparted to her did not exclude secular matters, especially the way of conducting oneself in everyday life, He instructed her that in arranging articles of domestic use, one must think out beforehand where particular things were to be kept. Those that were frequently required must be kept near at hand and the others at a distance. When a thing was temporarily removed from a place, particular care should be taken to see that it was put back exactly in the same place, so that one might not fail to locate it even in darkness. He taught her also the way of rolling wicks, dressing vegetables, making betel rolls, cooking, and doing other items of domestic work. He instructed her that while travelling in a boat or a carriage she should always be the first to get in and the last to get out; for then only one could properly check whether the entire luggage had been taken in or taken out. The secret of one's success in social relationships, he told her, depended entirely on one's capacity to adjust one's conduct according to time, place, circumstances and the nature of the people one had to deal with. Physically everyone was made of flesh and bones, but the mind within was constituted in entirely different ways. So one should be very careful in selecting one's friends and associates. With some, one might mix freely, with others only a nodding acquaintance was advisable, and with still others it was better not to talk at all.

Thus the Master took pains to make the Holy Mother efficient in both spiritual and secular matters, and prepared her for the great mission that he was to entrust to her at the close of his life."

Namaskar.

S. said...

salutations to all:

Ravi & Others:
the way it appears to me is that the holy mother's 'discipleship' with thAkur is no different from the many illustrations of the Mother (sakti) seeking instruction from Father (siva) in sacred lore (devikAlottaram for instance); that's how the way is shown & the path revealed. the uncompromising perfect ideal is laid for erring mortals plagued by compromises to get inspired enough to imbibe at least a tiny fraction, learn to live & get done with... :-)

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Ravi,

Thank you for your detailed
posts on Sri Ramakrishna and
the Holy Mother. Perhaps they
were exceptional couple. The
point I wish to highlight here,
is the amount that SRK had deposited for use of Saradamani. In case of Muruganar, perhaps the money he had left with Sri Subramania Chettiar was inadequate [due to inflation?] and Smt. Meenakshi had to suffer during her last years in penury and desperation.

I request David's responses too
on this plight of Smt. Meenakshi in her last years.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Muruganar asking Sri Bhagavan,
to get married!

Once Muruganar and Sri Bhagavan
were cutting the greens in the
kitchen. While Sri Bhagavan was
neatly cutting the greens keeping
the stems separately, Muruganar
forgetting himself totally about
what Sri Bhagavan was telling to
him about the benefits accruing
out of eating cooked greens, was
making a mess of cut greens and
the stems and the whole thing got
mixed up. Sri Bhagavan laughed
and told him: "Oye! How nice it is, the way in which you cut greens, how much of tender stems have you wasted and how you have mixed up both the stems and the cut greens! It is like the way you have been living as a householder, all mixed up."

Murugnar soon left the place in disgust and then wrote a poem on the 'advice' of Sri Bhagavan and left the paper on the sofa. Sri Bhagavan saw it and heartily laughed. The poem reads:

Nakkaraahi nayanthu Ramanare
Pukkup picchai pulambith thiri
-vadhen?
ThakkavaaRu oRu thyal udhaviyal
Chikkenak kudi vaazhkai cheluthume!

O Ramana! Why do you live a life
of alms seeker? And why do you
to go house to house for alms?
Why this trouble for you? Why not marry an understanding girl and run a nice life, with economy and happiness!

This song has been included
in Sri Ramana Sannidhi MuRai under the title Sevili Irangal, i.e
the humble advice of foster mother.

contd.,

Subramanian. R said...

Sri Ramana Jnana Vivaaham:

Apart from Muruganar, Vilacheri
Rangan, the class mate of Sri
Bhagavan, also broached the
subject of marriage to Sri
Bhagavan. Once when Rangan visited
Sri Bhagavan, they went to the Hill
and were taking bath in the tank.
They were also chatting about their olden days. Rangan during the course of chat was asking Sri Bhagavan: "Then, can a Jnani get married too?" Sri Bhagavan smiled and said: "Hm..Hm..."

After many years, Sri Krishnaswami
son of Rangan brought a collection of poems which can be sung with ragas and talas, titled Ramanaamritham or Sri Ramana Jnana
Vivaaham.

In that collection, Krishnaswami
describes in detail, the various
aspects of a Tamizh Brahmin wedding, like boy seeing the girl and consenting. The wedding preparations; exchange of garlands; nalangu & oonjal - where the bridegroom and the bride sit on a swing and married women sing songs moving the swing, vedic rites, tying the thaali, and then nuptials too.

The whole collection has been printed and published once in 1994, by the Asramam.

Sri Bhagavan was an ati-asrami. In ati-asrama, which is beyond four stages of human life, a Jnani can
get married, run business, own
property etc., In fact, this ati asrama aspect was also mentioned by Sri Bhagavan in the Commission Enquiry, many years later.

The ati-asrama is also called ati-
varnasrama - i.e beyond castes &
stages of life.

*****

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian,
I understand the point that you are trying to dwell upon.It is not as if the money deposited by Sri Ramakrishna was in any way sufficient!The Holy mother had to go through dire straits,after the passing away of the Master.Money is not the only thing,the social constraints of those days were tremendous.However,the young disciples of the Master as well as his householder disciples soon realised her plight and they took god care of her.This is a long and inspiring story of one who was The Master's equal in every respect-suffice it to say that Swami sAradAnanda true to his name,built the Udhbodhan as a residence for The Holy mother,borrowing money and paying the debt out of the proceeds of the sale of the Book-'Sri Ramakrishna ,The Great Master'.
'M' also supported the Mother by sending her money every month.Besides the Holy mother had to support her brother's family.
The Holy mother's life is indeed one of the most difficult that I have come across (externally speaking).It is also for this very reason,one of the most inspirational.
Namaskar.

Subramanian. R said...

Comment on the Parting Note:

T. S. Vaidyanathan: [From
the Souvenir of Centenary of
Sri Bhagavan's Advent - 1996}

continues....

In fact, Sri Bhagavan knew Him
more intimately than He knew the
closest of His school teachers.
That is precisely why Sri Bhagavan
left is as self evident self explanatory "his order". Some people have opined that Seshadri
Swamigal who was a yogi must have telephathically sent the orders which must have been acknowledged by Sri Bhagavan as his orders.
This cannot be true. Because the chronology of facts shows that Sri Bhagavan never sought anyone seeking what further orders that the person had to give. Had it been Seshadri Swamigal, He would become his disciple and waited on Swamigal. That did not happen. Was it the Moolavar [the Lingam in the sanctum of Sri Arunachaleswara Temple] or the Arunachala Hill itself which is said to be wisdom in the form of a Hill? Moolavar because, Sri Bhagavan went and hugged Him and reported His arrival etc.,

But remember that Sri Bhagavan took three years to pay His second visit to Moolvar! Hence we have to conclude that Moolavar didn't broadcast the "Come" message to Sri Bhagavan at Madurai. What about Arunachala Hill? That must surely be the right answer. Has not Guhai Namasivaya sung that "Jnana tapodanarai Vaa enRu azhaikkum malai" - the Hill that says "Come" to the Jnanis. So it must be Arunachala Hill. Now, I maintain that even this apparently satisfactory answer is also not strictly correct. You may ask why Arunachala Hill is not the correct answer? For the simple reason that Arunachala Hill is bound to call very wise peacock, deer, crow, dog, saint, deva, tapasvi etc., As a token of recognition of their Jnana, from Cow Lakshmi to Tiru Jnana Sambandhar were all called by the Hill to acknowledge the Jnana of the person called. Very few of the people called recognized that the Hill was calling. Some total ajnanis have also been called by the Hill of its innate goodness which is so great that the Hill does'nt discriminate between a Jnani adn an ajnani.

continued....

Subramanian. R said...

Comment on the Parting Note:

T.S. Vaidyanathan: continues..

Coming back to the parting note.
When Sri Bhagavan read it after
writing it, He clearly saw the confusion arising in the reader's mind as to who "his order" refers to. Sri Bhagavan made an insertion sing and added:

"I am leaving this place [in search of my father] as per [in search of my father and in his
orders] his orders. This has entered into a good enterprise. Hence nobody need grieve over this enterprise. To see this money need not be spent."

Here Sri Bhagavan is helping the reader with a few clues so that the reader may not have infinite possibilities to guess whose orders. Even here Sri Bhagavan has set a very interesting trap. He is seeking His father. We must assume it is not physical father who had passed away sometime ago. Here Sri Bhagavan has given a clear hint about religious nature of His quest perhaps seeking the Heavenly Father for comfort or what have you etc., But the trap is interesting. He is portraying Himself as a seeker. This, entirely for the consumption of the reader because the idea of seeking is totally absent in note as initially written. Later, realizing the ambiguity of "his orders" He qualifies that "his" as a Fatherly Figure whom the religious type seek. So the worry of Sri Bhagavan going to a merchant ship or joining a theatrical group in Cochin are really not there. The person is a Father-like Being. He won't allow harm to come to me. That much is sure. But the word seeking is a very very interesting in terms of what we see Sri Bhagavan actuallyu do. He didn't reach to find out who the leading saintly personalities of Tiruvannamalai are.

Now I am going to advance my own theory as to the identity of that person. One is that Sri Bhagavan, knew Him very very intimately. The ordinary, 'him' is not a tying mistake. At this point, we only know it is he and not a she. He has used Avar which is used for any respectable Male person. Beyond that we do not know the identity.

Clue number two comes from a conversation in talks. A learned Telugu gentleman raises some learned questions about swagaitya bheda, such as Brahman is beyond swagatiya and other Bheda etc., The details are not important but Bhagavan's reply is a very very important clue to the identity of the person. Sri Bhagavan replies "Dakshinamurti never taught anything of that kind." His vein is the same as you and I. When discussing a Math problem we may so, "'No, no'. Dr. Krishnan did not teach that. That is not important for the examination." While talking thus, the directness and intimacy with which we speak of Dr. Krishnan in the same way Sri Bhagavan says, "Dakshinamurty never taught anything like that." Who knows? Could it be Dakshinamurty who transmitted the telepathic orders to come to Arunachala? Wrong again. He is a mouna guru. Never makes a ripple of disturbance. Hence whoever that great soul may, it can't be Dakshinamurty. Who could it be then? I will give one more clue. His last name is Yogi. His First
name rhymes with Arunachala but is not Arunachala. Major Chadwick asks
Sri Bhagavan "Who is Arunagiri Yogi? Sri Bhagavan succinctly replied, "Who is He but God".


**********

Subramanian. R said...

From the Silent Power:

Swami Madhavananda:

On one occasion, probably in
1939, Sri P.M.N. Swamy, a staunch
devotee of Sri Bhagavan and
Secretary of Sri Ramana Satchitananda
Mandali, Matunga, Bombay, went to
the Asramam at Tiruvannamalai to have darshan of Sri Bhagavan. He stayed for the day there with his wife and nine month old child, Ramanan.

They had their breakfast in the common dining hall in the morning. After finishing, they went to wash their hands at the tap outside, leaving the child in the hall, By this time, Ramanan crawled away somewhere and could not be seen.
The perturbed father called out to the child as 'Ramana, Ramana'.

Sri Bhagavan who was then passing on His way to the meditation hall immediately responded to the call and the child was also found near the well in the Asramam compound.
The response from Sri Bhagavan naturally created a little puzzle
in Sri P.M.N. Swamy's mind because
he thought that the call 'Ramana, Ramana' intended for his child might have been wrongly interpreted by Sri Bhagavan.

Sri Bhagavan was quick to read Sri
Swamy's mindand told him, "Why do you feel puzzled when I responded to the call? Is there any difference between this Ramana [meaning Himself] and that Ramana [meaning the child]?"

*****

Subramanian. R said...

From Fragrant Petals: Asramam
Publication - 2005 edition:

His Grace:
By Non entity.

While reading the Mountain Path
[October 1968], I could not resist
thinking why people should come
forward to record only their spiritual experiences as a result of coming in contact with Sri Bhagavan. Some, I find, go to the
extent of giving instructions for the practice of "Who am I?" enquiry elaborating what the Master has already taught. I am a gross materialist and my approach to Sri Bhagavan was prompted by the highly self-centered desire to improve my material position. I am not sure whether there are, among the devotees, persons who had a similar yearning, but I do not feel shy to admit my lowly interest and to proclaim His Grace to this end has benefited me.

When I was a student in Tiruchirapalli, one of my college mates told me that there was a Rishi at Tiruvannamalai and, in my ignrorance, I could only visualize a Rishi of the line of those mentioned in Puranas. In 1928, when I had an opportunity to visit Tiruvannamalai, the brother of my friend who was a school teacher there, took me to the Asramam and I had my first darshan of Sri Bhagavan. My original picture of the Maharshi was then wiped out. Although I had an inborn reverence for great men, I knew little of Sri Bhagavan's teachings; nor did I have any knowledge of Vedanta. I had however a vague idea of yoga after seeing Kadappah Satchitananda Swami and reading his book in Tamizh during my school days. Ten years later it was my good fortune that my interest in Sri Ramana was revived through an intimate friend, a devotee who had visited the Asramam, several times. An aged relative, also an ardent devotee, kept up the flickering glimmer of devotion.

This relative narrated a miracle, which occurred in his home and this enhanced my longing to come closer to Sri Bhagavan. He had an ailing daughter whose health had deteriorated to such an extent that she could hardly move from her bed. In desperation, he wrote to his friend in Tiruvannamalai, a firm devotee of Sri Bhagavan requesting him to invoke His blessings for the recovery of his daughter. At midnight, the relative who was sleeping in the open, a few yards away from his house, was awakened by the sick daughter. He was astonished at her being able to walk by herself upto his bed. The girl explained that an old man helped her to walk and led her up to his place. She had to be carried back to her bed. From that day she improved in health. It is thirty years today, since this incident and she is quite well and happy.

Continued....

Subramanian. R said...

His Grace:

By Nonentity: continues....

At that time, I was struggling
as a temporary government employee
on a very meagre salary and with
great family commitments. In my
desperation I wrote a post card to
Sri Bhagavan asking for His Grace and a reply came stating that He perused my letter. This gave me solace and immense joy. A few months later, I received an offer of appointment in the Central Government in Delhi and I left the
South for better employment and
stepped on the threshold of prosperity. Since then I am constantly thinking of Sri Bhagavan and the repetition of His name in my daily ritual for the past twenty years or more. I consider myself lucky for having had a few chances of visiting the Asramam during Sri Bhagavan's lifetime and also a year before His Mahasamadhi and a year thereafter. It was during one of these visits, that Sri Bhagavan received an old copy of Tiruchuzhi
Puranam and this was being read out in the afternoon. While some devotees might have been meditating in His Presence, or listening ardently to the reading of the Puranam, I was mentally praying for material advancement to relieve me of the great burden of family life, -- an unusually bog family with eight children in various stages of growth. As though in answer to my prayer, the reading ceased as Sri Bhagavan apparently puzzled by the term ORRAI KANNAN. [one eyed man] which occurred in the text. The dictionary was brought and there was the explanation that the word referred to Kubera [god of wealth]. Sri Bhagavan seemed amused when the dictionary mentioned five legs for Kubera! How did I interpret the situation? One of my eyes was defective and I had five sons. The defective eyes deteriorated gradually while my financial position improved from time to time. Now I have one eye, after enucleation of the affected eye, but I am not a Kubera yet. Nevertheless I feel and believe that I may attain that state of before I pass away. Somewhere I heard that Kubera is only the custodian of the wealth of the gods and perhaps he does not enjoy
that wealth! This is only aside, for I cannot show any weakness in my faith.

Concluded.

Anonymous said...

Folks,
Speaking of Holy Mother and Re-incarnations since it is mentioned in No-Mind I am the Self that Mathru Sri Saradamma's mother dreamt about Holy Mother can we guess Sri Saradamma is the re-incarnatiion of Holy Mother the wife of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.I know this is vain talk but just curious.

-Z

Anonymous said...

Subramanian,
You were asking why do God-men abandon their family.Here is a hint from Gandhi's Autobiography ( http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00litlinks/gandhi/part4/405chapter.html ):

What effect this reading of the Gita had on my friends only they can say, but to me the Gita became an infallible guide of conduct. It became my dictionary of daily reference. Just as I turned to the English dictionary for the meanings of English words that I did not understand, I turned to this dictionary of conduct for a ready solution of all my troubles and trials. Words like aparigraha (non-possession) and samabhava (equability) gripped me. How to cultivate and preserve that equability was the question. How was one to treat alike insulting, insolent, and corrupt officials, co-workers of yesterday raising meaningless opposition, and men who had always been good to one? How was one to divest oneself of all possessions? Was not the body itself possession enough? Were not wife and children possessions? Was I to destroy all the cupboards of books I had? Was I to give up all I had and follow Him? Straight came the answer: I could not follow Him unless I gave up all I had. My study of English law came to my help. Snell's discussion of the maxims of equity came to my memory. I understood more clearly in the light of the Gita teaching the implication of the word 'trustee'. My regard for jurisprudence increased, I discovered in it religion. I understood the Gita teaching of non-possession to mean that those who desired salvation should act like the trustee who, though having control over great possessions, regards not an iota of them as his own. It became clear to me as daylight that non-possession and equability presupposed a change of heart, a change of attitude. I then wrote to Revashankarbhai to allow the insurance policy to lapse and get whatever could be recovered, or else to regard the premiums already paid as lost, for I had become convinced that God, who created my wife and children as well as myself, would take care of them. To my brother, who had been as father to me, I wrote explaining that I had given him all that I had saved up to that moment, but that henceforth he should expect nothing from me, for future savings, if any, would be utilized for the benefit of the community.

I could not easily make my brother understand this. In stern language he explained to me my duty towards him. I should not, he said, aspire to be wiser than our father. I must support the family as he did. I pointed out to him that I was doing exactly what our father had done. The meaning of 'family' had but to be slightly widened and the wisdom of my step would become clear.
I could not easily make my brother understand this. In stern language he explained to me my duty towards him. I should not, he said, aspire to be wiser than our father. I must support the family as he did. I pointed out to him that I was doing exactly what our father had done. The meaning of 'family' had but to be slightly widened and the wisdom of my step would become clear.

My brother gave me up, and practically stopped all communication. I was deeply distressed, but it would have been a greater distress to give up what I considered to be my duty, and I preferred the lesser. But that did not affect my devotion to him, which remained as pure and great as ever. His great love for me was at the root of his misery. He did not so much want my money, as that I should be well-behaved towards the family.....It was not their fault. 'Who can say thus far, no further, to the tide of his own nature?' Who can erase the impressions with which he is born? It is idle to expect one's children and wards necessarily to follow the same course of evolution as oneself.

-Z

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Anon.,

A Brahma Jnani has no rebirth
since he or she has already
merged with Godhead. In the
said situation, a rebirth for
a Brahma Jnani cannot happen.
Hence, in my view, to say that
Saradamani has taken rebirth
as Matru Sharadamma is incorrect.
In the same vein, to say that
Tiru Jnana Sambandha took rebirth as Sri Bhagavan is also incorrect. Why should they take a rebirth and work out self realization once again all afresh?

But God's nature is different. He can take birth for specific purposes. Therefore, to say that Lord Muruga took a birth as Tiru Jnana Sambandha could be correct. Muruga took a birth [which is an
avatar], as Jnana Sambandha to weed out the religions which were threat to Saivism. Though Jainism is by nature a religion of non injury to others, the Jains were creating problem to Saivites and Saiva religion, by breaking the temples of Siva and troubling Saivites in many ways. Hence the need for an avatar. Vishnu took
9 avatars so far, each time,
to kill an evil person[s].

****

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Anon.,

A Brahma Jnani or a Karma Yogi
like Gandhi can be a trustee
of every possession that he had.
But this trusteeship should be
maintained till the Brahma Jnani's
liberation or a Karma Yogi's death.
But in case of Smt. Meenakshi, it
did not happen. Muruganar lived
upto 83 years. But even while he
was alive, Smt. Meenakshi's trials
and tribulations had commenced.

In Sri Bhagavan's case is something wonderful. He conferred liberation to Mother Azhagamma
and Cow Lakshmi. He confirmed
the deliverance of Echammal and
Mudaliar Patti and Sivapraksam
Pilli through some indirect statements to that effect. I am not sure what He said after knowing the death of Ramanatha Brahmachari. He recommended a Samadhi for Mastan Swami, and by this, He confirmed his deliverance. No one worth deliverance during His life in body was left out.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

Spiritual Stories as told by
Bhagavan Ramana: Asramam
Publication - 11th edition 2010:

THE LORD IS WITHIN ME:

The Madurai King Pandyan [NinRa
Seer NedumaaRan] was inclined
towards Jainism. His wife and
the daughter of the Chozha King
and she was attached to Saivism.
She had heard of the great saint
Jnana Sambandha and his powers.
And she also came to know of his camping at Vedaranyam. The Pandyan Queen, with the help of a minister who was also attached to Saivism, sent an invitation to the Saint
to visit Madurai and convert the King to Saivism. The Saint came accordingly. When the queen saw that he was a mere boy of about 10 or even less, she had serious misgivings - whether he could be a match for all the big Jain leaders surrounding the king and if by inviting the child she had put him in jeopardy. When the Saint noticed this, he sang some songs, addressed to the queen and assuring her, "I am not in any way inferior to these Jains. The Lord is within me. Don't therefore be afraid."

A devotee added, "The songs mention the names of Jain leaders, referring to them in contempt and stating, "I am not inferior to all these, as the Lord is with in me." It is amusing to read those songs.

Sri Bhagavan added, "This was after the Saint came to Madurai. When the invitation reached Vedaranyam, and Jnana Sambandhar wanted to start for Madurai,
Saint Tirunavukkarasar, who was with Sambandhar pleaded, "Do not start today. The day is not auspicious for you. They, the Jains are terrible and powerful persons."

Thereupon, Jnana Sambandhar sang the KoLaRu Padigam, in which he again says, "As the Lord is within me, in my heart, no days, no planets, can affect me adversely and every day of the week is equally auspicious."

In the afternoon, a copy of Tevaram was brought and the
above two songs were picked out and Sri Bhagavan read a few of them aloud. In the Madurai hymn Sri Bhagavan referred to the last stanza and said, "When I explained the first stanza in the morning I gave the meaning as "Because the Lord is within me" though the words only mean "Because there is the Lord". I was wondering whether I was justified in my interpretation. I find in the
last stanza, it is clearly mentioned by the Saint Himself that what he means was "Because the Lord is within me" Besides, the same in clear from the whole of KoLaRu Padigam. Look at the last verse in the Madurai decad. With what authority he sings, "No harm can approach those who sing these songs of the King of Sirkazhi and the Master of Tamizh. Similarly. in the last song he says, "By my order those who read these shall be saved."

*****

Subramanian. R said...

From The Silent Power: Asramam
Publication - 2009 edition:

HOW I CAME TO BHAGAVAN:

Muhammad Abdulla:

I was brought up in rather
religious surroundings and grew
up a religious man. Later, when
I went to college and abroad,
my outlook changed. I became
an agnostic if not a downright
atheist. This condition lasted
till my late thirties. All
this time, off and on, I tried
to regain my faith but of no
avail. Somehow the idea of an
anthropomorphic God did not
appeal to me. If He wanted to
prove Himself to Himself, it
seemed rather a poor reason.
To create the world as a puppet
show and enjoy it as a spectator
also seemed ungodly and rather
cruel.

Many questions troubled me.
What is God? What is life? What
is it all about? Scriptures did not satisfy me for they demanded
faith to begin with, which I did
not have. I studied psychology
but there was nothing beyond the unconscious mind. I turned to dialectical materialism but then again, I found that its adherents were at loggerheads on trivialities. Turning to existentialism, I found it too morbid and depressing. Finally, I turned to metaphysics and mysticism and that is where luck favoured me.

While I was searching for a clue to my problem, by chance I got hold of a book from the library shelf. It was an old edition of Day by Day with Bhagavan. I was not particularly interested when I started reading it, but as I progressed my indifference gave way to astonishment. Well, here
at last there was someone who was reaching me. I read on with great enthusiasm and finished the book with a thirst for more. I placed an order to the Asramam Book Depot for all the books about Sri Bhagavan. I had never waited more eagerly for anything than the book parcel. When it came I studied everything from cover to cover drinking deep this source of true wisdom.

continued...

Subramanian. R said...

From The Silent Power:

How I came to Bhagavan:

Muhammad Abdulla:

For a couple of months, I was
immersed heart and soul in the
teachings of Sri Bhagavan. Here
at last, all my questions were
answered, all my doubts cleared.
When I had imbibed His teaching,
I planned a visit to the Asramam.

Now I must say a word or two about the visits to the Asramam.
There is something in coming to and going from this place. Some mysterious force takes charge of you the moment you decide to go there. I met by chance, an old devotee, Prof. K. Swaminathan,
who is in charge of Ramana Kendra, New Delhi. He encouraged me to make the visit. I left New Delhi and arrived at the Asramam two days later. It was 2.30 PM. I sat in the meditation hall facing Sri Bhagavan's picture. He seemed so much alive. Such a kind and benevolent smile!

I could not move my eyes away from Him. I had no idea of the time when suddenly the dinner gong was sounded at 7.30 PM.

I lived in the Asramam for a month, and meditated morning and evening. I found to my surprise that the problems which seemed monumental gradually receded to the background. The past became shadowy. Yesterday's desires made no sense and made me laugh. Apprehension for the future dwindled to nothing. I felt happy.

A month was quickly over and I travelled back with a heavy heart. I had only one prayer when I took leave of Sri Bhagavan. I wanted to come again. I also prayed to Sri Bhagavan to help me maintain the peace I had found for a long time. Both my prayers were answered. I came again and again.
Sri Bhagavan never forsook me in my hours of trials. I never let go of Sri Bhagavan nor does He let go of me!

*******

Subramanian. R said...

My Reminiscences - N. Balarama
Reddy - Asramam Publication -
2nd edition 2008:

In Bhagavan's Hall:

In Sri Bhagavan's Hall, devotees
would be occupied with one of
three things. Some would be
sitting in silent meditation
with eyes closed. Some would be
quietly gazing at Sri Bhagavan's
holy form. Others would be
engaged in discussion, which
usually consisted of questions
put forth to Sri Bhagavan. Any
other activities required permission from the Office.

Once T.M.P. Mahadevan had just
returned from a trip to the West.
He delivered lectures whenever
he went and a number of lectures
were about Sri Bhagavan and His
teachings. A few of the resident
devotees wanted to hear an example
of how he lectured on Sri Bhagavan. He offered to give one then and there. But before he could do this, permission had to
be taken from the Office. It was
given without delay. He then gave a lecture. Except for this lecture, I don't remember any one giving a lecture in the hall, although there were those whose very questions were the equivalent of a lecture in length. Usually, such visitors wanted to show off their knowledge.

Also, I don't remember many songs or bhajans being sung in the Hall, except for the daily parayana. Devotees occasionally did sing, no doubt, but permission was required. Personally, I preferred to sit quietly before Sri Bhagavan. In this way, I felt I was reaping greater benefit than from any puja or sankirtan.

There was one Daivarata, a devotee of Sri Bhagavan who had been living in the North for some years. He had just returned from a visit after a long absence. Among other things, he was known for his enthusiastic kirtan and dancing. He used to do it in earlier years before the Maharshi, and while doing pradakshina of Arunachala. Some devotees expressed a desire to see him perform. It was arranged in the dining hall. Sri Bhagavan sat where he usually did at mealtimes and we all sat in rows. Daivarata began singing and dancing up and down the rows with great enthusiasm. He also sang Ganapati Muni's Chatavrimsat in his own melody, dancing to the tune.

Once the private secretary to the Government of Pondicherry arrived in the Asramam with a few of his associates. He came into the Hall with a large sheet of paper filled with a long list of questions written in an elaborate, complex style of French. He handed the paper over to Sri Bhagavan, walked over to the window opposite Sri Bhagavan's couch and sat on the window sill. Sri Bhagavn looked the questions and, noticing they were in French, asked me to translate them. I was struggling with it, word by word, while translating it to Sri Bhagavan.

continued....

S. said...

salutations to all:

Subramanian / Others:

["...But even while he was alive, Smt. Meenakshi's trials and tribulations had commenced... He recommended a Samadhi for Mastan Swami, and by this, He confirmed his deliverance. No one worth deliverance during His life in body was left out..."]

would you agree that mInAkshI ammA's trials were known to muruganAr? not just that, bhagavAn also was well aware of her plight; needless to say, aruNAchalA knew it better than anybody else, right? don't you think then there might be a few things in life that are best left unexplored? wouldn't be far fetched to guess what bhagavAn would have replied if you had put forth the same question!

you'd also remarked "No one worth deliverance during His life in body was left out." - going by whatever little bhagavAn spoke, and a fraction of that 'little' that was recorded, it's nearly impossible to determine who all realised! on the other hand, i'd say there may have been scores & scores of beings blessed with videhamukti by bhagavAn :-). in a few instances he said so, and in several others he may not have; why he did or why he didn't is something only bhagavAn knows! it's perhaps naive yet safe to conjecture the obvious reply bhagavAn may have fired at anyone who would've asked him 'is 'x' realised?' :-) moreover, a singular potent evidence in the form of bhagavAn is more than adequate to inspire anyone to seek the self; to know whether 'x' or 'y' realised or not is most irrelevant to one's own quest. in any case, since a majority engaged in sAdhanA too can't help but view realisation as a 'goal' to be achieved (unless the mind is extraordinarily pure), pretty much in the same way the mind has got thoroughly used to attaining any 'goals' of this world, it's highly unlikely you'd jump with utmost joy on coming to know that your neighbour realised the self! on the contrary, several questions will instantly pop up (how did he? why couldn't i? he was quite ordinary! after all, i've spent a lot more time reading & thinking of bhagavAn etc. etc.) - in short, to most of us, the first reaction will be 'envy', the same as it happens with the usual things of the world. thus, there could be many reasons why a sage may not declare who got realised, and you & i will never know (albeit wiser to recognise that we needn't know!)

S. said...

salutations to all:

Ravi/Ramprax/Subramanian/Others:

while writing the earlier comment, the two paragraphs reminded me of two episodes from the kAthAmrta - the story of the squirrel & rAma, and the tale of the peasant whose liberation was linked by nArada(?) to the number of leaves on the tree! :-)

since ravi and ramprax are more conversant with the kathAmrta, request either of them to quote the actual story as narrated by thAkur from the electronic copy they have of the text :-)

Subramanian. R said...

Dear S.,

Your comment gives rise further
many interesting variations.

I only said that Sri Bhagavan
confirmed the mukti of a few devotees. He also did not confirm
the mukti of at least, Kavyakanta
Ganapati Muni. As you have said,
there could be many about whom He
did not say anything.

Again there are at least 9 Samadhis, for persons, who had attained mukti after Sri Bhagavan had left the body. Four are in Korangu Thottaam, viz., Chadwick, Cohen, H.C. Khanna, and Lucy Ma, the author of Hunting the I. Again 5 behind the samadhi of Cow. Kunju Swami, Rajeswarananda, Cycle Ramaswami Pillai, Viswantha Swami and Muruganar. For Samadhis to be built for all these, there must have been some intutive guidance for Asramam authorities from Sri Bhagavan or Arunachala.

Regarding Smt. Meenakshi's sufferings, perhaps we have only to suppose that it was a part of her prarabdha. She was always chanting Sri Ramana Sanndihi MuRai songs and Sri Bhagavan had a great concern and love for her. She had in turn enormous bhakti and respect for Sri Bhagavan and Muruganar.

Then there is a blanket order from Siva [Sri Bhagavan used to call it as Supreme Court Order, no one can appeal against!] There are 2 verses as Siva Vachanam in Sri Arunachala Maahatmyam rendered in Tamizh by Sri Bhagavan:

"Mukti for all those who directly sight the Hill or even mentally think of It from afar."

"Those who reside within a radius of three yojanas [about 30 miles] of the Hill, for them the Hill burn off all defects and effect union with the Supreme even in the absence of initiation."

Let us stop with this, lest I
will become a wicked person who
do evil to others [i.e raising
Smt Meenakshi's issue and causing disrepute to Murugnar] and thus will be destroyed, since the burning fire of anger of Lord Arunachala who has
assumed the form of a Hill of Fire is well known. [as per last verse of Maahatmyam.]

******

Anonymous said...

Hi Subramanian,
I do not know if Holy Mother(wife of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa) has attained Moksha but certainly Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Vivekananda themselves declared they will be born again in this century.I take it that a lot of their sishya gana will follow him.

-Z

David Godman said...

This morning I spoke to Eduardo Linder, the Mexican devotee who looked after Virupaksha Cave for many years.

He has, for many years, been a major supporter and patron of vedic chanting in Ramanasramam. He has now started a trust that aims both to promote vedic chanting in Tiruvannamalai and to support local sadhus who are in need of assistance. He has a website where the trust's activities are all explained. It can be found at:

http://arunachalavedas.org

Anonymous said...

Subramanian,
About Realized devotees the only clearly confirmed are Bhagawan's mother,Cow Lakshmi,Lakshmana Swamy,Sri Saradamma,Paapaji and Robert Adams.About Murugunar I do not know.So far as my reading goes I have not read about any other Self-realized devotees of Bhagawan.Please correct me if I missed anybody else.

-Z

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Anon.,

Sri Bhagavan could confirm
mukti in case of some persons,
only when He was in body. In
that way, Mastan Swami,Mother Azhagamma,Cow Lakshmi, Echammal, Mudaliar Patti, Sivaprakasam Pillai and the girl child of GVS, Indra, [whom I had left inadvertently,
in my previous posts,] have been
confirmed by Sri Bhagavan. Others
who left the body, after His Maha Nirvana, there is no confirmation, by Sri Bhagavan, quite obviously.

In case of two young babies, of Rajalakshmi Amma for whom, He applied Vibhuti in one case and fed milk in another case have also attained liberation, even before
these babies could reach their
first birth anniversaries. In this case, Sri Bhagavan, indirectly confirmed, on the next days of the babies' passing away, "Whether the babies were buried or cremated." The devotees said, "Buried". He nodded His head.

In case of Ramanatha Brahmachari,
I do not remember to have read
anything specific.

In all other cases, we cannot say
anything, because we are not self realized. These persons left the
body some or many years later. Such a list includes Swami Ramanagiri too. about whom David
wrote sometime back.

About the nine samadhis, the
Asramam authorities might have
taken the decision, for the reasons already
explained before.

*****

Subramanian. R said...

My Reminiscences: N. Balarama
Reddy:

In Bhagavan's Hall:

continues....

Sri Bhagavan paused for a
moment. He then slowly turned
His face in the direction of the
questioner [from Pondicherry]
and rested His eyes on him. After
about 30 seconds, I noticed the man's body began to tremble.
Soon he was shaking all over. Then he blurted out, "Oh, no, Bhagavan, not now! Please Bhagavan, not
now!"

I was standing a little to the
side of Bhagavan, watching this
extraordinary scene and wondering what a being this Bhagavan was! He was a storehouse of power, but yet so kind, gentle and compassionate. In spite of all this grandeur, he always seemed so human and natural, even laughing and joking with us on occasion.

{a portion of the article has
been left out since it was not
quite special}

concluded.

S. said...

salutations to all:

Anonymous (Z.)/Subramanian:
["...I do not know if Holy Mother(wife of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa) has attained Moksha but certainly Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Vivekananda themselves declared they will be born again in this century. ..."]

please give 'valid' references for your statement regarding thAkur and svAmiji. didn't know that the Mother of the universe also required 'Moksha'!!! wouldn't be surprised if people in the blog now start claiming audaciously that the 'One' who declared 'sambhavAmi yuge yuge' either 'required' liberation or simply wasn't liberated :-) of course, brahman is thoroughly unfit for liberation, isn't it??? :D

the realised don't need any 'confirmation' from anybody, yes, not even from bhagavAn! by the way, whose confirmation did bhagavAn have? :-) also, merely because the Asramam says 'absorbed' on the epitaphs of a few, it need not necessarily indicate anything (the contrapositive of this statement also equally holds!). "have i realised?" is the 'ONLY' question that has any meaning at all. the one question one should always refrain from is whether somebody else is realised or not! if such a question rises, it's to be nipped in the bud rightaway through vichAra...

and yes, if indeed there were only a tiny handful who got realised by bhagavAn's grace, i wouldn't mind saying that such parsimony renders bhagavAn & aruNAchala as quite useless & worthless for nearly everybody! :-) hope your blood boils to disagree :-)))

Subramanian. R said...

Dear S.,

The whole discussion was
not, first of all, on whether
X or Y is self realized or not.
My initial discussion was
about Smt. Meenakshi and that
is all. Then Anon., has given a
list and I only said, that Sri
Bhagavan, while He was in body
confirmed the realization of a
few persons and He could not
give any confirmation about others, when He had
Himself attained Maha Nirvanam. I
repeat, that is all I wanted to say
in this matter.

In this connection I recall a dialogue between a devotee and
Sri Bhagavan: [Talks. NO. 607]

Bhagavan: ....... "There is no difference between a Jnani and an
ajnani in their conduct. The difference lies only in their angles of vision. The ignorant man
identifies himself with the ego, and mistakes its activities for those of the Self, whereas the ego of the Jnani has been lost and he does not limit himself to this body, or that, this event or that, and so on........"

On another occasion, Sri Bhagavan has said there is not even Jnani.
There is only Jnanam.

I personally do not like any labelling business.

I started the comments only about
Smt. Meenakshi Muruganar had to undergo such dire straits and
miseries during her later years.
Even here, several responses came.
Finally I decided that as per the
general rule of Arunachala Mahatmyam, Siva Vachanam, this misery was only her uncleared praradbha and once this was over,
she must have also attained Videha
Kaivalyam. Scriptures say a Brahma Jnani brings about mukti without effort for seven generations before him and seven generations
after him, and also for the persons
of his current generation. In fact, Sundaram Iyer's liberation is under this third category. Because Iyer left his body, even before Sri Bhagavan had attained Self realization. But he was the person of tapas and the fruit was Sri Bhagavan for him, as a son. That itself is a good qualification for him. Sri Sundararya Tapa phalaya namah |
says Ashottaram.

*****

Anonymous said...

S,
The statement of the Rebirth of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is by Vivekananda in Complete Works.He said 200 years after birth or death of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa I do not know.So that makes it this century(1836 to 1886 + 200 will make it either 2036 or 2086).Both also have statements directly or indirectly elsewhere about re-incarnation.
About Holy Mother Sarada appearing in dream of Sri Saradamm(Lakhmana Swamy' devotee) it is stated in No Mind I am the Self and that was why she was named Saradamma.Again in that dream Holy Mother just appeared but did not indicate explicitly in any way that she was going to be born.That is why I asked a question.

You can do the digging yourself.Complete works is free online it will be easy to do a Ctrl+F

Subramanian,
That incident about 'No not now Bhagawan' is quite amusing and QUITE SO TRUE.A vast majority of us think we want or are ready for Moksha but actually we are not.Desires are deep rooted.There is very similar reporting in the book No Mind, I am the Self.When both Saradamma and Swamy begin to give grace devotees tremble out of immense fear.Sri Saradamma says too much grace can even kill the aspirant.Our Mr.S needs to be sent to Sri Saradamma or Lakshmana Swamy and given such a treatment.That will sort him out.After practising sadhana/Self-Enquiry if you haven't yet come to this fear point occassionally then may be you are not practising right.I could be wrong here but that is my take on it.
There is another acid test.Are you ready to leave everything your savings, your job and family for Moksha?Ask yourself?

About number of devotees attaining Moksha I think Bhagawan probably has very good success rate in recorded history.Can you name any other with so many devotees having attained Moksha?

Given the Yugas and Kalpas that last for Billions of years I am not surprised at the slow rate of Mokshas.Take it easy and nice and slow buddy.

About Lord Krishna's Sambhavami yuge yuge Paapaji and others have said Gods are also waiting for their Moksha.Technically it is not possible for Eeswara to have Moksha.Whenever they do they all(Vishnu et al) merge(pralaya) in Sadasiva.Bhagawan has said that Eeswara(God) externally has a form and individuality but inwardly transcendant(Talks).


-Z

S. said...

salutations to all:

Subramanian:
["...I repeat, that is all I wanted to say in this matter ..."]

sir - please don't take anything 'personally'. my tone at times may be sharp and/or sarcastic but that's only for 'emphasis' and not to cause any hurt to anyone. would it be too much to expect that members of a forum as this blog shall be above the trappings of feeling touchy over unintended assaults? my retorts may be pointed but please understand that they are directed only against your's or anybody else's comments and never at the person making the comment :-)

S. said...

salutations to all:

Subramanian & Others:
["...Finally I decided that as per the general rule of Arunachala Mahatmyam, Siva Vachanam, this misery was only her uncleared praradbha and once this was over..."]

why is there a pressing need to take shelter in the comfort of a reasoning that apparently explains the 'why' of things as these? it's very fine for the mind to hunt for a 'why' amongst physical phenomena; after all it's the beautiful maxwell's laws of electromagnetism that's behind the workings of say an electric engine or a wireless phone! but such an attempt to find or know an underlying law collapses when it comes to the pursuit of unraveling the great riddle of knowing oneself! say somebody's suffering is not a result of prArabdha - so what? does the experience of suffering get any lesser if one knows the reason for it? momentarily, yes because that's the way we are used to in the transactional dealings of life, but with the passing of that moment, so will the comfort. if i lose a limb, how does it help to know that a train ran over me and not because it just disappeared one fine day! even in the path of surrender, it's only the beginner who needs the cushion of telling oneself every now & then that it's all god's will; the one who has even made a little progress with surrender doesn't require such a 'toy' (when the very breath one takes is by the lord's will, so he'd know, what to talk of a limb!). reminds me of the gIta verse - svalpamapyasya dharmasya trAyate mahato bhayAt...

Subramanian. R said...

Dear Anon.,

Nice to hear from you many
things in your post. The
rebirth of Saradamani as
Matru Sharadamma etc., again
brings the question to the full
circle. Only God knows the correct
answer.

Regarding fear of moksha, it happens because people who suffer
from from various wants, request
God only a next birth, with good
Audi car, good health, nice villa
in Naples, good and beautiful wife,
[not necessary you must be handsome!} etc., etc., Because
Moksha is something mystical for
many people. And the fear stems from losing the ego! No one wants
to lose their ego.

Saint Manikkavachagar says in one of his poems: "This world will not stand for ever. Let us not stand here. We shall go to Sivapuram [kailas or moksha] and lie at His
feet. If you hesitate, he will become rare for you."

NiRpar niRka nilla ulahil....

There will be many many who will hesitate. Some one will say: Let
me tell my wife and come. Some one
else will say, let me have a good
cup of coffee/tea and then come.
A third one will say: Let me write
the Will in favor of my son and then come. No one would say, O
Manikkavachakar, I am coming here and now! Or perhaps only a few good sadhakas waiting for an opportunity would say.

There is one Tamizh saying: Siva
comes before you and asks you to come along with Him. The saint poet
asks: Can I bring my ganja [cannabis] pouch with me and come?

*****

S. said...

salutations to all:

Anonymous (Z.):
["...You can do the digging yourself.Complete works is free online it will be easy to do a Ctrl+F ..."]

hahahaha... the onus of providing a justification strictly & squarely rests with the one who indulges in making the claim, more so if you are attributing them to someone as thAkur or svAmiji to invest it with legitimacy! how do we know you aren't cooking it from your fertile imagination? :-)))

dear Z. - simple, either show the evidence or take back your claim. if lethargy precludes one from tracing the source, merely refrain from saying it. how difficult is that? :-)

Subramanian. R said...

Dear S.,

The "why" comes because
we have to explain Smt.
Meenakshi's sufferings which
is a hard fact. She was just
a simple and soft spoken lady,
spent many years at the feet of
Sri Bhagavan and had a good
Brahma Jnani as her husband. Other-wise prarabdha as per Sri
Bhagavan's statement is not there,
along with agami and sanchita
only for Brahma Jnanis and not for sadhaks. Jagadeeswara Sastri suffered a serious illness and
had to be pulled away from death
from Sri Bhagavan. However, his
sufferings, he had to undergo. Only
it did not result in his death due
to Sri Bhagavan's grace. This suffering part is prarabdha for all sadhakas. When only some one
attains Brahma Jnanam, when the ego is completely lost, there is no prarabdha or atleast the effects of prarabdha do not affect him, because he has no ego and that is doership and enjoyership and sankalpas to get cured. However sadhakas do have such sankalpas to get cured because they feel that their goal is not yet attained and they do not want a 'premature' death without reaching the winning post.

*****

Ravi said...

s/Friends,
s has asked for the story of the squirrel and Lord Sri Rama,as well as the story of the two yogis seated under a Tree and Narada-I had searched for these in the Kathamrita a long while ago and did not find it!There is this substory that should be part of the full one that thAkur narrates:
MASTFR: "Nothing is impossible for God. Nobody can describe His nature in words.
Everything is possible for Him. There lived at a certain place two yogis who were
practising spiritual discipline. The sage Narada was passing that way one day. Realizing
who he was, one of the yogis said: 'You have just come from God Himself. What is He
doing now?' Narada replied, 'Why, I saw Him making camels and elephants pass and repass
through the eye of a needle.' At this the yogi said: 'Is that anything to wonder at?
Everything is possible for God.'
But the other yogi said: 'What? Making elephants pass
through the eye of a needle - is that ever possible? You have never been to the Lord's
dwelling-place.'


Namaskar.

David Godman said...

Saradamma told me about her two previous incarnations, saying she had received the information from Lakshmana Swamy. Neither had any connection with Ramakrishna. I put this information in the first draft of No Mind - I am the Self, but Lakshmana Swamy asked me to remove it. Since he decided not to make this information public, I won't say what they were, but they were most definitely not around Ramakrishna.

S. said...

salutations to all:

Anonymous (Z.):
["...A vast majority of us think we want or are ready for Moksha but actually we are not.There is very similar reporting in the book No Mind, I am the Self.When both Saradamma and Swamy begin to give grace devotees tremble out of immense fear.Sri Saradamma says too much grace can even kill the aspirant.Our Mr.S needs to be sent to Sri Saradamma or Lakshmana Swamy and given such a treatment.That will sort him out.After practising sadhana/Self-Enquiry if you haven't yet come to this fear point occassionally then may be you are not practising right.I could be wrong here but that is my take on it.There is another acid test.Are you ready to leave everything your savings, your job and family for Moksha?Ask yourself? ..."]

hahahahahaha. thanks a ton, Z... had a whole hearty laugh :D. hope your 'wish' comes true :-))) how i wish i get 'killed' by 'grace'! wow :-) of course, i'm not practising 'it' right - wont i be in self-abidance if had done it 'right'? :-))) i also presume you've already left your 'savings', 'job', 'family'! i'm only looking towards leaving my 'i' (alkali test?); of what use is it to leave the rest? :-)

Ravi said...

s/Friends,
Here is the story that s has asked for,as narrated by swami Vivekananda:

There was a great god-sage called Narada. Just as there are sages among mankind, great Yogis, so there are great Yogis among the gods. Narada was a good Yogi, and very great. He travelled everywhere. One day he was passing through a forest, and saw a man who had been meditating until the white ants had built a huge mound round his body--so long had he been sitting in that position. He said to Narada, "Where are you going?" Narada replied, "I am going to heaven." "Then ask God when He will be merciful to me; when I shall attain freedom." Further on Narada saw another man. He was jumping about, singing, dancing, and said, "Oh, Narada, where are you going?" His voice and his gestures were wild. Narada said, "I am going to heaven." "Then, ask when I shall be free." Narada went on. In the course of time he came again by the same road, and there was the man who had been meditating with the ant-hill round him. He said, "Oh, Narada, did you ask the Lord about me?" "Oh, yes." "What did He say?" "The Lord told me that you would attain freedom in four more births." Then the man began to weep and wail, and said, "I have meditated until an ant-hill has grown around me, and I have four more births yet!" Narada went to the other man. "Did you ask my question?" "Oh, yes. Do you see this tamarind tree? I have to tell you that as many leaves as there are on that tree, so many times, you shall be born, and then you shall attain freedom." The man began to dance for joy, and said, "I shall have freedom after such a short time!" A voice came, "My child, you will have freedom this minute." That was the reward for his perseverance. He was ready to work through all those births, nothing discouraged him. Only perseverance, like that of the man who was willing to wait aeons brings about the highest result.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

R.Subramanian/s/friends,
Here is an excerpt from Chapter 17 of The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,M at Dakshineswar:
Monday, December 24, 1883
At eight o'clock in the morning Sri Ramakrishna and M. were talking together in the pinegrove
at the northern end of the temple garden. This was the eleventh day of M.'s stay with
the Master.
It was winter. The sun had just risen. The river was flowing north with the tide. Not far
off could be seen the bel-tree where the Master had practised great spiritual austerities. Sri
Ramakrishna faced the east as he talked to his disciple and told him about the Knowledge
of Brahman.
MASTER: "The formless God is real, and equally real is God with form. Nangta used to
instruct me about the nature of Satchidananda Brahman. He would say that It is like an
infinite ocean- water everywhere, to the right, left, above, and below. Water enveloped in
water. It is the Water of the Great Cause, motionless. Waves spring up when It becomes
active. Its activities are creation, preservation and destruction.
"Again, he ued to say that Brahman is where reason comes to stop. There is the instance of
camphor. Nothing remains after it is burnt-not even a trace of ash.
"Brahman is beyond mind and speech. A salt doll entered the ocean to measure its depth;
but it did not return to tell others how deep the ocean was. It melted in the ocean itself.
"The rishis once said to Rama: 'O Rama, sages like Bharadvaja may very well call you an
Incarnation of God, but we cannot do that. We adore the Word-Brahman. We do not want
the human form of God.' Rama smiled and went away, pleased with their adoration.
Different manifestations of the Absolute
"But the Nitya and the Lila are the two aspects of the same Reality. As I have said before, it
is like the roof and the steps leading to it. The Absolute plays in many ways: as Isvara, as
the gods, as man, and as the universe. The Incarnation is the play of the Absolute as man.
Do you know how the Absolute plays as man? It is like the rushing down of water from a
big roof through a pipe; the power of Satchidananda-nay, Satchidananda Itself-descends
through the conduit of a human form as water descends through the pipe.
Only twelve
sages, Bharadvaja and the others, recognized Rama as an Incarnation of God. Not everyone
can recognize an Incarnation.
"It is God alone who incarnates Himself as man to teach people the ways of love and
knowledge. Well, what do you think of me?


continued....

Ravi said...

s/R.Subramanian/Friends,
The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...
"Once my father went to Gaya. There Raghuvir said to him in a dream, 'I shall be born as
your son.' Thereupon my father said to Him: 'O Lord, I am a poor brahmin. How shall I be
able to serve You?' 'Don't worry about it', Raghuvir replied. 'It will be taken care of.'
"My sister, Hriday's mother, used to worship my feet with flowers and sandal-paste. One
day I placed my foot on her head and said to her, 'You will die in Benares.'
"Once Mathur Babu said to me: 'Father, there is nothing inside you but God. Your body is
like an empty shell. It may look from outside like a pumpkin, but inside there is nothingneither
flesh nor seed. Once I saw you as someone moving with a veil on.'
Master's vision of Gauranga
(To M.) "I am shown everything beforehand. Once I saw Gauranga and his devotees
singing kirtan in the Panchavati. I think I saw Balaram there and you too.
"I wanted to know the experiences of Gauranga and was shown them at Syambazar in our
native district. A crowd gathered; they even climbed the trees and the walls; they stayed
with me day and night. For seven days I had no privacy whatever. Thereupon I said to the
Divine Mother, 'Mother, I have had enough of it.'
"I am at peace now. I shall have to be born once more. Therefore I am not giving all
knowledge to my companions. (With a smile) Suppose I give you all knowledge; will you
then come to me again so willingly?

"I recognized you on hearing you read the Chaitanya Bhagavat. You are my own. The
same substance, like father and son. All of you are coming here again. When you pull one
part of the kalmi creeper, all the branches come toward you. You are all relatives-like
brothers. Suppose Rakhal, Harish, and the others had gone to Puri, and you were there too.
Would you live separately?
Parable of the grass-eating tiger
"Before you came here, you didn't know who you were. Now you will know. It is God who,
as the guru, makes one know."

I have quoted these excerpts from The Gospel to say:
1.The Master did speak about his being born again
2.The Master maintained that iswara Kotis are not born as a result of prarabda,and hence no Moha +Kshaya is applicable to these Great ones.

This is all the more interesting in as much as Sri Ramakrishna also admits the 'No Rebirth for Jnanis' statement as well.I will post it next.
Namaskar.

Ramprax said...

S/Others,
The story mentioned by S is not about a squirrel. It is about a frog.
Here's the story:
Gospel of Ramakrishna, Chapter 33:

"Pain and pleasure are inevitable in a body. He who has realized God dedicates his mind and life, his body and soul, to God. When Rāma and Lakshmana went to take their bath in Pampa Lake, they thrust their bows into the ground. Coming out of the water, Lakshmana took out his bow and found its tip stained with blood. Rāma said to him: 'Look, brother! Look. Perhaps we have hurt some creature." Lakshmana dug in the earth and found a big bullfrog. It was dying. Rāma said to the frog in a sorrowful voice: 'Why didn't you croak? We should have tried to save you. You croak lustily enough when you are in the jaws of a snake.' The frog said: 'O Lord, when I am attacked by a snake I croak, saying: "O Rāma, save me! O Rāma, save me!" This time I found that it was Rāma who was killing me; so I kept still.'"

Ravi said...

s/R.Subramanian/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,Chapter 34,Bankim Chandra:

MASTER (to Bankim): "I understand you are a great pundit and have written many books.
Please tell me what you think about man's duties? What will accompany him after death?
You believe in the hereafter, don't you?"
BANKIM: "The hereafter? What is that?"
MASTER: "True. When a man dies after attaining Knowledge, he doesn't have to go to
another plane of existence; he isn't born again. But as long as he has not attained
Knowledge, as long as he has not realized God, he must come back to the life of this earth;
he can never escape it. For such a person there is a hereafter. A man is liberated after
attaining Knowledge, after realizing God. For him there is no further coming back to earth.
If a boiled paddy-grain is sown, it doesn't sprout. Just so, if a man is boiled by the fire of
Knowledge, he cannot take part any more in the play of creation;
he cannot lead a worldly
life, for he has no attachment to 'woman and gold'. What will you gain by sowing boiled
paddy?"
BANKIM (smiling): "Sir, neither does a weed serve the purpose of a tree.'
MASTER: "But you cannot call a jnani a weed. He who has realized God has obtained the
fruit of Immortality-not a common fruit like a gourd or a pumpkin. He is free from rebirth.
He is not born anywhere-on earth, in the solar world, or in the lunar world.
"Analogy is one-sided. You are a pundit; haven't you read logic? Suppose you say that a
man is as terrible as a tiger. That doesn't mean that he has a fearful tail or a tiger's pot-face!
(All laugh.)
"I said the same thing to Keshab. He asked me, 'Sir, is there an after-life?' I didn't commit
myself either way. I said that the potters put their pots in the sun to bake. Among them you
see both baked and soft pots. Sometimes cattle trample over them. When the baked pots are
broken, the potters throw them away; but when the soft ones are broken they keep them.
They mix them with water and put the clay on the wheel and make new pots. They don't
throwaway the unbaked pots. So I said to Keshab: 'The Potter won't let you go as long as
you are unbaked. He will put you on the wheel of the world as long as you have not
attained Knowledge, as long as you have not realized Him. He won't let you go. You will
have to return to the earth again and again; there is no escape. You will be liberated only
when you realize God. Then alone will the Potter let you go. It is because then you won't
serve any purpose in this world of maya.' The jnani has gone beyond maya. What will he
do in this world of maya?
"But God keeps some jnanis in the world of maya to be teachers of men. In order to teach
others the jnani lives in the world with the help of vidyamaya. It is God Himself who keeps
the jnani in the world for His work. Such was the case with Sukadeva and Sankaracharya."

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

s/R.Subramanian/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,where the Master talks about the isvarakotis and the Jivakotis:
Difference between ordinary men and Incarnations
"There are different planes of consciousness: the gross, the subtle, the causal, and the Great
Cause. Entering the Mahakarana, the Great Cause, one becomes silent; one cannot utter a
word.
"But an Isvarakoti, after attaining the Great Cause, can come down again to the lower
planes. Incarnations of God, and others like them, belong to the class of the Isvarakotis.
They climb up, and they can also come down. They climb to the roof, and they can come
down again by the stairs and move about on a lower floor. It is a case of negation and
affirmation. There is, for instance, the seven-storey palace of a king. Strangers have access
only to the lower apartments; but the prince, who knows the palace to be his own, can move
up and down from floor to floor. There is a kind of rocket that throws out sparks in one
pattern and then seems to go out. After a moment it makes another pattern, and then still
another. There is no end to the patterns it can make. But there is another kind of rocket that,
when it is lighted, makes only a dull sound, throws out a few sparks, and then goes out
altogether.
Like this second kind, an ordinary jiva, after much spiritual effort, can go to a
higher plane; but he cannot come down to tell others his experiences. After much effort he
may go into samadhi; but he cannot climb down from that state or tell others what he has
seen there.
Nature of the ever-perfect
"There is a class of devotees, the nityasiddhas, the ever-perfect. From their very birth they
seek God. They do not enjoy anything of the world.
Illustration of homa bird
The Vedas speak of the homa bird. It lives very high in the sky. There the mother bird lays
her egg. She lives so high that the egg falls for many days. While falling it is hatched. The
chick continues to fall. That also goes on for many days. In the mean time the chick
develops eyes. Coming near the earth, it becomes conscious of the world. It realizes it will
meet certain death if it hits the ground. Then it gives a shrill cry and shoots up toward its
mother. The earth means death, and it frightens the young bird; it then seeks its mother. She
dwells high up in the sky, and the young bird shoots straight up in that direction. It doesn't
look anywhere else.
"Those who are born as the companions of an Incarnation of God are eternally perfect. For
some of them that birth is the last.

Namaskar.

Ravi said...

z,
Here is an excerpt from The Life of The Holy Mother-am not sure whether you have read her biography in detail:
"Her spiritual ministry had begun, in a way, even during the life-time of the Master. Many of the women, who flocked to the Master, gathered round her and felt inspired by her. It is known that the Master himself asked his would-be Sannyasin disciple Sarada (Swami Trigunatita) to take initiation from her. But it is doubtful whether the initiation actually took place: but Swami Trigunatita was one of her earliest caretakers and attendants till he left for work in the West. Yogen, Swami Yogananda, another disciple of the Master, was initiated by her at Vrindaban according to the instruction given to her and Yogen by the Master himself in dreams.

During her stay at Jayrambati and Calcutta, the stream of initiation-seeking disciples increased from a trickle to a voluminous flow as time went on and the Master's name and message began to spread far and wide. She was very liberal in accepting disciples, without insisting too much on their competency, not because she could not assess the same, but because her motherly heart responded with sympathy and affection to whoever went to her calling 'Mother' and seeking refuge. In the ocean of her universal love, the relative statures of individual seekers had no meaning as far as their fitness to receive her blessings was concerned. Consequently the number of her disciples increased and many of them were not of any high standard of excellence. Referring to this, her companion Yogin-Ma once said: "Look at the Master's disciples. Each one of them is a spiritual giant. And look at your disciples, Mother." To this the Mother replied: "Is it to be wondered at? He picked up the best type, and with what care he selected them! And towards me he has pushed all this small fry, coming in their hundreds like ants! Don’t compare his disciples with mine," Further she spoke to one disciple about the significance of her initiation: "Whatever I have to give, I give at the time of initiation. If you want peace immediately, practise the spiritual discipline prescribed. Otherwise you will achieve it only after the fall of the body." Another disciple protested against her liberality, saying that she was giving initiation sometimes even to boys of ten and twelve who might not even remember the Mantra, and that the number of these was so many that she hardly remembered them. Her reply to this was: "My child, the Master never forbade me to do so. He instructed me on many matters. Could he not have told me something about this as well? I give the responsibility of my disciples to the Master. Every day pray to him, saying, 'Please look after the disciples wherever they may be.' Further I received these Mantras from the Master himself. Through them one is sure to achieve perfection."
In her the world found a unique figure in its history, who combined in herself the roles of a perfect wife, nun, mother and teacher at the same time. In the endless procession of the members of the human species on this planet of ours, the Holy Mother stands out as a unique example, whose utter innocence could melt even the hardest of hearts, who never looked at the fault of others, whose love never made any distinction between the deserving and the undeserving, in whose eyes the saint and the sinner were alike her precious children, whose wide heart held all humanity in its maternal embrace, and who considered it a privilege to labour and to suffer for even the least of them. If we cannot see here the face of the all-loving Universal Mother, of God the Redeemer, where else can we? Only we should have the sensitiveness to recognise that the subtle potency of love transcends the obtrusive display of power."

Namaskar.

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